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XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22, 11 - FEB 20, 12

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Cat Burglar
You were expecting The Pink Panther, maybe? :)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox Is Going As Roger Levesque For Halloween, Apparently

Jason Davis, October 31, 2011

Here’s a photo of the recently exonerated Amanda Knox sporting a Seattle Sounders scarf and wearing the traditional French guy drawn on mustache and beard. We’re going to assume she’s supposed to be Sounders forward Roger Levesque (who is not actually French by the way, he just has French facial hair).

KCKRS

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox slammed for partying on eve of anniversary of Meredith Kercher's death

by Ryan Parry, 1/11/2011

Mirror UK
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox
Guilty...
Of a Poor Costume Choice

TMZ

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox Latest News: Knox Parties on Anniversary of Kercher's Death, Attacked by Father
By Stoyan Zaimov | Christian Post Contributor

CHRISTIAN POST

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Tribute to the Kercher family by 'Macport':




R.I.P Mez rip)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

In memory of Meredith, by 'ViaDellaPergola':


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Good morning / afternoon everyone,

If you've got a free minute and would like to pay a silent tribute to Meredith, a young woman we never knew, please visit our photo gallery, which contains many lovely pictures of Mez. Seeing those pictures just warms my heart and I hope it warms many others, too. For example, I've never seen this photo of Meredith, giving a tour, before.

Attachment:
Meredith giving a tour-480.jpg


We have seen enough of Knox for a lifetime! On the fourth anniversary of Meredith's untimely death we look back and wonder what might have been...

r-(( R.I.P. Meredith r-((


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Administrator Note:

Today is Tuesday and is the day we normally allow FOAKers onsite to engage in case discussion. However, today is also the anniversary of Meredith Kercher's death. It would therefore be inappropriate for FOAKer day to take place today so it is canceled until next Tuesday (I would allow it earlier, but I have a busy schedule this week). Certainly today, should be about Meredith. Thank you all for your kind understanding.

Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Italian journalist is fall-guy as Knox prepares exclusive

Sollecito's 'I can’t wait to see Amanda' interview apparently didn't sit well with US media plans
BY Andrea Vogt LAST UPDATED AT 07:08 ON 1 Nov 2011


THE FIRST POST

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Meredith fell in love with dance when she was a child. It is also known that she used to take ballet lessons. I mean … she was a joy to have around.

I hope she would have liked this: White Adagio from Swan Lake, recorded at the Bolshoi Re-opening Gala 28/10/11 (a grand ballet feast). And, yes, the music is very, very touching.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Is the Court System Failing Us or Are We Failing the Court System?
Tuesday, November 01, 2011 By Danica Luc, News Editor

THE PARMENTIER


(It's a high school newspaper...but why not. They can't possibly do any worse then much of the mainstream media have done. Danica is wrong about the evidence in the Kercher case but then, so are many others)

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Offline Maria


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

2) And Edda's soundbite yesterday was that Amanda looked like she did not sleep well ?

mmmm wonder why.....
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

guermantes wrote:
Good morning / afternoon everyone,

If you've got a free minute and would like to pay a silent tribute to Meredith, a young woman we never knew, please visit our photo gallery, which contains many lovely pictures of Mez. Seeing those pictures just warms my heart and I hope it warms many others, too. For example, I've never seen this photo of Meredith, giving a tour, before.

Attachment:
Meredith giving a tour-480.jpg


We have seen enough of Knox for a lifetime! On the fourth anniversary of Meredith's untimely death we look back and wonder what might have been...

r-(( R.I.P. Meredith r-((



Thank you for posting this photo from Meredith Kercher. I have never seen it before. R.I.P. Meredith Kercher.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox Latest News: Amanda Knox Wears Cat Burgler Costume for Halloween (VIDEO)
Meredith Kercher's Father Lashes Out, Calls Amanda Knox's Halloween Partying 'Insensitive'

By George J. Wienbarg | Christian Post Reporter

CHRISTIAN POST

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Maria wrote:
2) And Edda's soundbite yesterday was that Amanda looked like she did not sleep well ?

mmmm wonder why.....



What is it with these people, that they always have to paint Amanda like she's suffering and she's a victim? What's with that?

Knox is OUT of prison now...she's home. STOP fishing for sympathy!

If there's one thing throughout this whole sordid case that has made me ill, it's the CONSTANT begging for sympathy from Edda, Curt et al. Enough!

They got her out. They should just STFU, instead of pushing their luck. What the hell more do they want?

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Meredith Kercher, RIP

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

teabreak wrote:
As has probably been suggested before, in the forensic photograph of the broken window pane from Romanelli’s room, the glass does appear to have been removed from the lower edge of the casement as no sheared glass edge (as would have been expected from a stone break close to the edge) is visible there. Anyone attempting to break in there would have had to stand on the bars of the window below, holding on with one hand while removing the shards of glass from the bottom edge with the other in doing so their chest would have to have been pressed against the window cill and the quickest method would have been to pull them free and drop them on the cill


'Removing'...you mean just banging them out as any normal burglar would do? This was breaking and entering (supposedly), not surgery.

teabreak wrote:
However as already said, I agree that it was very strange that none of glass (especially larger pieces that would have been easily visible on the ground) had been displaced during any proposed entry through the window.


Oh, more than strange. Thanks for acknowledging it though.

teabreak wrote:
When you say partial clean up are you referring to the rest of the cottage i.e in all but Meredith’s room and the bathroom or something else?


I'm referring to the (small) bathroom, a portion of the corridor and some of Meredith's room.

teabreak wrote:
Apparently the window was not lit by headlights from cars on the road as it was obscured by both the railings and a tree which still had leaf cover and the fact that oncoming cars were on the farther side of the road not the side nearest the house. There does not appear to be a footpath on either side so less chance of pedestrian onlookers. I think the window would have been in complete darkness so unlikely anyone at the window would be seen from the overlooking apartments. Yes the gate and the approach to the house, if all the considerations mentioned above are taken into account then a view of the approach while scaling the wall might be handy for the burglar.


Not true. The front of the house was well lit by street lighting and in the path of the headlights from passing traffic. There was a tree, but that gave only minimal cover from a minimal angle...the rest was open for the world to see. This was not a covered en-shadowed area.

And the proof of it, were more needed, is that both the following break-ins (after the property was sealed), were through the kitchen window. If Filomena's window was the obvious entry point, why did none of those break-ins occur through there?

A view of the approach whilst scaling the wall??? What, a 180 like in The Excorcist? It would have to be, since if you climb that wall the approach is directly behind you. Have you had a proper look at the layout?

teabreak wrote:
As you pointed out the housemates knew him to look at and therefore any need to escape quickly would only arise before entry and especially during the window break e.g. the burglar breaks the window then retreats to the shadows and awaits a response, if there is no response then burglar assumes house is empty and enters. This becomes more difficult if you climb on to the patio to break the kitchen window as if anyone responds to the noise to escape you must climb down again.


If the housemates knew him, then any normal burglar would burgle somewhere else, not a place where everyone knew him.

Escape before entry? Again, I suggest you examine the layout of the cottage. Ig he sees someone coming, it's already too late...he has to go past them to escape. This is because there is only one way in to the cottage and one way out. No matter what our 'intruder' does, if he's known to the residents, he's going to be recognised.

Therefore, the obvious place to attempt to enter is around the back. Then when you HEAR (you forget ears and concentrate on eyes) someone approaching or entering out front, you sit tight and quietly...wait for them to shut the the door and go about their business indoors and then tiptoe round to the front of the cottage and out via the drive.

teabreak wrote:
These hammers are not of the generic variety, they have a point not a flat hammer face its sole purpose is to break glass. No you don’t need a hammer to break windows a stone will suffice. However a neat little hammer especially for the job is a handy pocket sized tool for easily enlarging any hole in broken glass.


Really? Got a photo of it? But, this hammer of the 'non-generic variety' (what the fuck is a non-generic hammer anyway?) didn't break the window of the lawyer's office. What's with that? It sort of displaces Guede's hammer from the status of 'Mr Sinister'...doesn't it? What contrary evidence do you have? I mean, this is just innuendo.

teabreak wrote:
It too was in the Massei report Page 46 line 9


This is relative. Was it approaching 6 ib?

teabreak wrote:
I don’t know about that Michael. I’m sure the prosecution would have used this fact in any attempt to distance Guede from the crime and it wasn’t mentioned it in the motivations. Well I couldn’t see it could you point to it for me please?


No. Where did you even get the concept from, that the prosecution would attempt to defend someone? It doesn't work like that. The prosecution don't defend anyone (aside from 'perhaps'...the victim). Anyone can say whatever they like about Guede, the prosecution are never going to challenge that. That said, I think you've raised a good point...I think the prosecution should such falsehoods.

teabreak wrote:
No, but on the other hand it could also be the actions of a brazen thief who after been caught with the goods was trying to back up his alibi as the innocent victim in receipt of stolen goods in order to get the police off his arse.


Yeah, this 'brazen thief' that had no history of being a thief. Yet, supposedly became both expert and brazen...over night.

What about those caught at a murder scene backing themselves up with lie after lie...do the same rules apply as with your fingered burglar? Or, by your arse, do we conveniently shift those rules about a bit? Seemingly so.

teabreak wrote:
Yes I know…..that’s why I suggested it was a possibility Guede might be the thief and stole the laptop.


I see, so if they weren't stolen for cash it was Guede. If they were stolen for cash it was Guede. Wow, it's like the answer's rigged...like one of those funny slot machines.


teabreak wrote:
Anyone caught in possession of stolen goods is hardly likely to admit to burglary either are they?

I was simply pointing out was it is quite a coincidence that the office was broken into using a stone through the first floor window and Guede who lived in Perugia was caught in possession of the stolen goods while in Milan, nothing more.


It doesn't mean they did it either. You have to PROVE they did it. Sorry for being annoyingly modern. Mind you, that has been the approach with Knox hasn't it...prove it all to the letter, ever last t, all crossed, every last piece of evidence? Seems the standard's slipping with Guede. Matbe that's because he's not American, isn't 'hot' in the classical sense and doesn't have a pair of tits. Call me cynical...but then, I also think I'm bang on.


teabreak wrote:
Yeah…I’ve seen the police here dust a couple of break-ins and you would be lucky if they spent more than 5 minutes and even then they didn’t bother to take any prints they found even after it was pointed out to them it was too big to be the householders. It appears they just aren’t that interested in devoting the time to a burglary.


Wait...so, what you're saying is, they simply did a poor job on the burglary examination, but had they done a good job on the burglary they would certainly have found Guede's DNA or other forensic evidence? The fact they didn't was because they did a poor job, but since we know they certainly would have found it had they have done a good job we can simply now assert it was certainly there? I don't want to be throwing straw men, so correct me if I've got any of this part wrong.

I can see the attraction of just writing the rules as we go along. Cool isn't it? Especially, when we only apply them selectively to certain people. I can see how your world works very well for you.

teabreak wrote:
As I already said I am just pointing out this is a nice coincidence and suggesting it remains a possibility that Guede could be a housebreaker who at least once has used a stone through an upstairs window to enter a property.


Hey, coincidences don't seem to be an issue for you elsewhere. The coincidence of multiple implausibilities all seem just dandy to you...when they enable getting Guede up through that window. Hey, don't take the mickey and pretend you're bothered by coincidence...your coincidence gland might just explode due to irony overdose.


teabreak wrote:
From my own experience of knocking doors. I can quite accurately state that a lot of people simply ignore the door if they don’t want to answer it. No shouting just ignoring.

Yes breaking windows to gain access for a thief is pretty much standard practice. If the window is on a first floor then some method of breaking the glass must be employed. In fact I can’t think of anything better to use than a stone or around here, where they build with them, bricks tend to be a firm favourite…

“Giant rocks” Really…… It’s growing daily…..I saw a SOCO handling it on the police video on channel 5 Tuesday night and it didn’t look any bigger than a house brick.


What? Please explain how any of this evidences Guede slammed a rock through the cottage window to see if anyone was home. Spare us the guff.


teabreak wrote:
Your right it didn’t demonstrate that Guede actually did commit the breakins. Just that it might have been a possibility.

Yes from what the Knoxers say it appears a lot of the case might have been built around the courts theorising.


Possibility? Space aliens are a possibility. We aren't interested in what is 'possible', but in what is 'plausible' and supported by the evidence. None of which, can be said for your 'possible' scenarios.


teabreak wrote:
Actually your right, as he was allegedly a small time hash dealer and by the sound of it, in student riddled Perugia, this could have netted him a tidy income. Therefore it was wrong to mention he didn’t currently have an income. Anyway I was really just trying to draw attention to the coincidence that both he and the laptop were from Perugia yet met in Milan.


He was none of those things. There's no coincidence...the laptop cam,e from Perugia, he came from Perugia. Milan needn't of had anything to do with it...nor Giede meeting a lawyer's office. All Guede needed to do, was meet the person or someone that knew the person that did meet the lawyer's office, all likely since all were from perigia.


teabreak wrote:
No ……I just thought it was a good analogy after your attempt at “the dog ate my homework” dig


Let's get one thing clear...a straw man is NOT an analogy...a straw man is a straw man. And if you do that again, you will be gone...it's in the forum rules in fact. Straw men are looked on very dimly here. Are we clear about that? If you want to defeat arguments people are making, challenge them. But don't defeat them by inventing arguments to defeat that they aren't making. I need to know you understand this.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

A memorial to Meredith (provided by 'Ergon'):


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Free to party: Amanda Knox dresses as cat burglar for Halloween bash on the fourth anniversary of Meredith's murder

By Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 7:37 PM on 1st November 2011


THE DAILY MAIL

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Meredith Kercher's sister writes open letter on fourth anniversary of murder
by Ryan Parry, Daily Mirror 2/11/2011


DAILY MIRROR

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

From the above:

FOR us, this has only ever been about Meredith. She had been in Perugia for eight weeks and I had moved away from home only three weeks previously. We had stayed in touch updating each other with the exciting new things we were doing.

I had just got home from a training course when Mum called me, her voice trembling, relaying news that a 21-year-old English girl had been found under a mattress in Italy.

Trying to calm Mum down I began calling Mez on her mobile. I ended up leaving a voice message explaining what had happened, telling her to be safe and to call me as soon as she could.

I finished, as always, saying “I love you”. I even emailed her the news page so she knew what I was talking about... Little did I know I was already too late.

Dad’s was the next voice I heard. Through tears he told me the name he had been given by a newspaper was Meredith. I cannot remember what I thought – it was a mixture of disbelief and sheer pain. I did not know what to think or do and then my body just sunk.

When I arrived at Mum’s the pain in my chest was unbearable as I was told the few details of what had happened – the broken window, her door locked on the inside.

Thoughts and scenarios were racing through my head faster than I could comprehend and I collapsed into my parents’ arms, filled with the fear Meredith must have endured that night.

We stayed up all night watching the news, waiting for any concrete information. The Halloween photo of Meredith was the first to appear and I spun round to Mum and said ‘That’s not Mez! That’s not Mez, Mum!’

I was adamant it was not my little sister, but Mum stroked my hair and painfully submitted that it was.

I cried all night until I could barely see or breathe, everything just felt so empty. From the moment we received the call I knew we had to go and look after Mez.

We were told she was in a room with flowers either side of her and Mum said we had to go as soon as possible because she did not want to leave Meredith on her own. I cannot begin to imagine how my parents must have felt, I just know how numb I was and how Mum’s strength pulled us together.

We began our journey to identify her and bring her home. Arriving in Italy was surreal, everything happened so quickly. I still remember looking at Meredith lying there so still, no breath to be taken, a crisp white sheet pulled up to and over her neck.

She seemed peaceful, yet she bore a look of determination, of courage marred by defeat. It was a look that let us know how hard she had fought to be with us – and for that I am eternally grateful.

From that moment we knew we had to fight for her, too, not only for justice for her, but every day for ourselves, for her.

Others have given us the strength to continue since November 1, 2007 and we’d like to thank everyone around the world who has supported us and given us hope.

This is testament to a truly special sister, daughter and friend. She really did touch so many lives with her selfless compassion and loyalty, and continues to do so now.

Nothing was ever too much trouble for her. Mez never knew how effortlessly beautiful she was or how much of an impact she had on people. This was a quality of hers, which enabled her to make others laugh, help others when they needed someone, and become someone to aspire to.

She held such an incredible presence that the void she has left us with is noticeable every day. Marking the fourth anniversary of our loss, we now live without reason. No motive was found.

It is difficult to find any reason to want to hurt her and it terrifies me to think she may have left us that night not knowing either.

We still hope justice will prevail and, in the darkest times, the support given to Meredith and us as a family reminds us of why we are still here.

We are working with friends and colleagues to start a Trust Fund in Meredith’s name to help with the case and eventually support anyone else who may tragically find themselves in our position, so that her fight may continue and help others.

On November 1 at 9pm I will light a candle for my sister, may she rest in peace.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I can't bring myself to think what the Kerchers are feeling today. For any loved ones of a murdered child, for that matter.

And, to add insult to injury, seeing Amanda, out and about, in her, as usual, tasteless attire. And, I absolutely agree with Michael.

WHY are the Knox/Mellas groups still whingeing about poor little Amanda? What lurks beneath these constant whimperings? I can hazard a guess. Because they KNOW she's guilty. With that comes the worry, that other people have, or will, figure it out. So, portraying their daughter as a victim, will, they hope, stop anyone on focusing on the real, and only victim...Mez.

In Fallain's book, he talks about the whole MONTH OF OCTOBER, ripped out from Amanda's DIARY . sun-)

Now, why would that be? Could it be ( YES, YES, YES ) that at that time, Amanda, with her incessant writing, had details of the bad realations between her and Mez, her drug taking, and, RUDY !!!!!!

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
From the above:

FOR us, this has only ever been about Meredith. She had been in Perugia for eight weeks and I had moved away from home only three weeks previously. We had stayed in touch updating each other with the exciting new things we were doing.

I had just got home from a training course when Mum called me, her voice trembling, relaying news that a 21-year-old English girl had been found under a mattress in Italy.

Trying to calm Mum down I began calling Mez on her mobile. I ended up leaving a voice message explaining what had happened, telling her to be safe and to call me as soon as she could.

I finished, as always, saying “I love you”. I even emailed her the news page so she knew what I was talking about... Little did I know I was already too late.

Dad’s was the next voice I heard. Through tears he told me the name he had been given by a newspaper was Meredith. I cannot remember what I thought – it was a mixture of disbelief and sheer pain. I did not know what to think or do and then my body just sunk.

When I arrived at Mum’s the pain in my chest was unbearable as I was told the few details of what had happened – the broken window, her door locked on the inside.

Thoughts and scenarios were racing through my head faster than I could comprehend and I collapsed into my parents’ arms, filled with the fear Meredith must have endured that night.

We stayed up all night watching the news, waiting for any concrete information. The Halloween photo of Meredith was the first to appear and I spun round to Mum and said ‘That’s not Mez! That’s not Mez, Mum!’

I was adamant it was not my little sister, but Mum stroked my hair and painfully submitted that it was.

I cried all night until I could barely see or breathe, everything just felt so empty. From the moment we received the call I knew we had to go and look after Mez.

We were told she was in a room with flowers either side of her and Mum said we had to go as soon as possible because she did not want to leave Meredith on her own. I cannot begin to imagine how my parents must have felt, I just know how numb I was and how Mum’s strength pulled us together.

We began our journey to identify her and bring her home. Arriving in Italy was surreal, everything happened so quickly. I still remember looking at Meredith lying there so still, no breath to be taken, a crisp white sheet pulled up to and over her neck.

She seemed peaceful, yet she bore a look of determination, of courage marred by defeat. It was a look that let us know how hard she had fought to be with us – and for that I am eternally grateful.

From that moment we knew we had to fight for her, too, not only for justice for her, but every day for ourselves, for her.

Others have given us the strength to continue since November 1, 2007 and we’d like to thank everyone around the world who has supported us and given us hope.

This is testament to a truly special sister, daughter and friend. She really did touch so many lives with her selfless compassion and loyalty, and continues to do so now.

Nothing was ever too much trouble for her. Mez never knew how effortlessly beautiful she was or how much of an impact she had on people. This was a quality of hers, which enabled her to make others laugh, help others when they needed someone, and become someone to aspire to.

She held such an incredible presence that the void she has left us with is noticeable every day. Marking the fourth anniversary of our loss, we now live without reason. No motive was found.

It is difficult to find any reason to want to hurt her and it terrifies me to think she may have left us that night not knowing either.

We still hope justice will prevail and, in the darkest times, the support given to Meredith and us as a family reminds us of why we are still here.

We are working with friends and colleagues to start a Trust Fund in Meredith’s name to help with the case and eventually support anyone else who may tragically find themselves in our position, so that her fight may continue and help others.

On November 1 at 9pm I will light a candle for my sister, may she rest in peace.


Michael, thank you for posting Stephanie's letter. Simple, yet powerful words. Heartfelt, moving ... no question.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nell wrote:
Thank you for posting this photo from Meredith Kercher. I have never seen it before. R.I.P. Meredith Kercher.


Hi Nell, another of my favorite pics:

Attachment:
Meredith in a mask.jpg


Not trying to idolize Meredith in any way, but she was a sweet girl who loved life, loved to have fun, to laugh and make others laugh with her. You can tell how happy she is just by looking at her smile. :) How could anyone hurt her? So very wrong. Very sad.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Administrator Note:

Today is Tuesday and is the day we normally allow FOAKers onsite to engage in case discussion. However, today is also the anniversary of Meredith Kercher's death. It would therefore be inappropriate for FOAKer day to take place today so it is canceled until next Tuesday (I would allow it earlier, but I have a busy schedule this week). Certainly today, should be about Meredith. Thank you all for your kind understanding.

Michael


Michael, thanks for keeping this board clean and balancing out hostile noise today. Have you read what Rose has posted in other places? I don't think there is any way to misread what this person Rose is saying:

stint7 wrote:
RoseMontague takes a slap at Mr Kercher (again)

Originally Posted by RoseMontague View Post
Statement from Mr. Kercher:
http://global.christianpost.com/news...-father-59994/
I think it is very insensitive of Mr. Kercher to be attacking an innocent girl for going to a party.
___________________________________

And then of course, the usual simpleton JLOL atta boy specialists appropriately burst out with the usual chorus of:
"How great thou art", Rose....

Originally posted by Diocletus
Agreed. I guess that Kercher thinks she should spend the fourth and every subsequent Halloween lighting candles around a wreath of white roses and meditating about Meredith. Silly.
_______________________________
Sooooo "sensitive" of that dio-dipshit dolt, isn't it ??

Posted by stint7: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:44 pm


We have long known that Rose&Co. are insensitive; they are bullies. They just don't get it: can't see it, can't recognize why it is so offensive. Today, of all days. That's why I regularly protest against their presence here. I feel that your courtesies are wasted on them...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

'We're Trying To Get Our Lives Back To Normal,' Says Amanda Knox's Dad, On Anniversary Of Meredith Kercher's Murder

By Radar Staff
Posted on Nov 01, 2011 @ 04:30PM

On the fourth anniversary of Meredith Kercher's death, Amanda Knox is trying to put her life back together and move on, her father, Curt Knox, exclusively revealed to RadarOnline.com.

Amanda spent the landmark day with a close friend in Seattle, where the two girls were spotted hugging and hanging out.

Dressed in a warm coat and scarf, Knox looked emotional and tired as she engaged in deep conversation with her friend on the date that must be embedded deeply into her memory after her exchange student housemate was brutally killed on November 1.


Attachment:
Knox on anniversary of Meredith Kercher's death.jpg


Read more: RADAR ONLINE


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox
I'm Learning Jew-Jitsu!

TMZ

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

POLL: Was Amanda Knox’s Halloween Costume Insensitive?

by Verena von Pfetten | 4:53 pm, November 1st, 2011

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Did Amanda Knox's Halloween Costume go too Far?

By Daniel Tovrov | November 1, 2011 12:57 PM EDT

INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS TIMES

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox's Halloween Costume Shows She's Addicted to Fame
Posted by Lindsay Mannering on November 1, 2011 at 4:52 PM

CAFEMOM

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox dresses
up for Halloween bash

By ALEX WEST

Published: 01 Nov 2011

THE SUN

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox Latest News: Stephanie Kercher Releases Letter Regarding Anniversary of Murdered Sister
Stephanie Kercher Relays Her Family's Pain And Continued Search for Murderer of Meredith Kercher
By Katherine Weber | Christian Post Contributor


CHRISTIAN POST

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Meredith Kercher's family sets up fund for Italian murder appeal

Posted: 8:36 AM, November 2, 2011
Last Updated: 8:42 AM, November 2, 2011

LONDON -- The family of Meredith Kercher, who was stabbed to death in Perugia, Italy, is setting up a trust fund to help pay for the appeal against the decision to clear American student Amanda Knox and her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito of murder.

In an open letter, published in The (London) Times and the Daily Mirror to mark the fourth anniversary of the British student's death, Stephanie Kercher said the fund would help with legal expenses in the future and also eventually support others who find themselves in a similar position.

She wrote, "We will not recoup the legal costs, but we hope that a fund may help with legal expenses in the future, as the appeal proceeds. Most importantly, we hope that Meredith's fight may continue and that she can help others."


NEW YORK POST
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I must agree with Guermantes. Rose has demeaned the Kerchers before. Now, on the Anniversary of the saddest day a bereaved person lives through, an unempathetic, really callous post from Rose...again. It shows a complete lack of decency. It's unkind, unfair, unacceptable.

We should not, cannot tolerate posters like this. And, at the end of the day, it seems like the agenda is to collect little badges of * honour * from their co-horts on Jlol, amidst rah-rahs, and finding another way to slam PMF, for being so unfair.

I'm sick of the same thing, that's been going on for years." Boo hoo, I've been banned. Those mean PMF'ers. That's what I get, when I go over to debate. *

There's a line between allowing posters to come over, and debate. It's quite another thing, to be used as a vehicle to crow and put us down.

ENOUGH. BASTA.

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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Re: The Short, Angry, Disturbed and Monumentally Ignorant Pied Piper of JLOL

Image

Kevin Lowe, the Grade 7 math teacher/ part time mature student of “social inclusion and wellbeing” (who LITERALLY likes to intimate that he’s a medical doctor when he’s online) has proved, once again, that criminal law is not his thing.

(Judging by his unspeakably insensitive and unapologetic use of the ‘Thrill Kill’ avatar, it’s not at all clear that teaching and/or the study of “social inclusion and wellbeing” are his cup of tea either.)

Behold! This is what ignorant incompetence looks like, folks:
Image

Lowe actually thinks that the police should be able to make (presumably warrantless) DNA searches/ seizures in respect of ANYONE that COULD POSSIBLY be involved in a crime (anyone in the vicinity and anyone connected to the scene – even if they have a solid ‘I was out of town’ alibi).

“COULD POSSIBLY”?! Is that a joke?! It’s difficult to imagine a more inclusive, utterly useless and completely unconstitutional standard for the taking of bodily samples than “Could Possibly”!!!

“Reasonable and PROBABLE grounds”/ “PROBABLE cause” (to wit, a “reasonable belief” that the subject of the search has actually murdered Meredith) is the standard we hold dear in common law countries, fool.

Why is it that the JLOL crowd believes that the constitutional rights of AK & RS – the only 2 witnesses of some 80+ interviewed that gave the police a load of happy horseshit – are the only ones worthy of vindication?!

If that’s not an indictment of Lowe’s self-proclaimed status as a “trained rational thinker”, I don’t know what is.

His status, however, as the shortest man in any group photo - even where there are only women in the shot – remains uncontested. (Is there anything nastier that a troll with a Napoleon Complex?)



Last edited by Jackie on Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox prosecutor Giuliano Mignini back in court as a defendant

By Doug Longhini


CBC NEWS

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I'll keep fighting for murdered Meredith
Evening Standard 2 Nov 2011

LONDON EVENING STANDARD

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox: Kercher Family Develops Fund for Murder Appeal
November 02, 2011 03:05 PM EDT

by Mary Jane

GATHER

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

From the above:

Quote:
Stephanie has also spoken out about Amanda Knox's Halloween costume that spread like wildfire in the media. After seeing the picture, Stephanie explained that she "cried all night until (she) could barely see or breathe. Everything just felt so empty even though we were all together in the same room."

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

MEZ: An Odd Mask
For Remembrance (2#) -
On the anniversary of
Meredith Kercher's death . . .

THE ECLECTIC CHAPBOOK

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Meredith Kercher's Family Sets Up Fund for Italian Murder Appeal

Published November 02, 2011


FOX NEWS

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
From the above:

Quote:
Stephanie has also spoken out about Amanda Knox's Halloween costume that spread like wildfire in the media. After seeing the picture, Stephanie explained that she "cried all night until (she) could barely see or breathe. Everything just felt so empty even though we were all together in the same room."



It would appear Mary Jane has misread Stephanie's quote on the Fox article and wrongly attributed it to being about Amanda Knox. It is actually about Meredith...here's the full original quote:

Quote:
Describing the moment a Halloween picture of the victim appeared in the media, Stephanie Kercher wrote, "I was adamant it was not my little sister, it simply didn't look quite like her ... but Mum stroked my hair and painfully said that it was. I cried all night until I could barely see or breathe, everything just felt so empty even though we were all together in the same room."

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

So Right, Jackie. Could, possibly KL be an idiot?

Could, possibly, he also be a ( short) fake?

One could continue as infinitum with him :)

I heard something interesting today.

A prosecutor said, re guilt. Is it possible? as to is it reasonable? I liked the difference.

Heartbreaking letter from Stephanie. What a difference in Her letters, and Amanda's. Stephanie, so genuine. Amanda, so fake.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/01/amanda-kn ... rIFMmB5FQY


I am not sure if this video clip has been posted so delete Michael if it is not appropriate at this time. It is very eerie to watch Amanda as she hones her fighting techniques.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I just watched the video about 10 minutes ago and now after I posted the above link the video appears to have been taken off the site. That is weird.


ETA:
Well it is working on another computer so it appears to be something going on with my laptop.

In any event WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH HER? This is so disturbing on so many levels.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Indie wrote:
ETA:
Well it is working on another computer so it appears to be something going on with my laptop.


Hi Indie. Right click on the video and select 'allow flash' (or whatever option it is, I can't remember the exact wording). If it doesn't give you that option or it doesn't work, ensure you have the latest stable versions of Adobe Flash Player installed (both of these): http://www.filehippo.com/download_flashplayer_ie/10639/ and http://www.filehippo.com/download_flash ... fox/10640/

Also ensure you have the latest version of Java installed. If this is newer then the version you have, uninstall the old version first then install this version: http://www.filehippo.com/download_jre_32/

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Surprise, surprise ... Raffaele Sollecito is to give his first television interview since his release from prison, but can he pull it off?

Television
3.11.2011

Raffaele Sollecito in an exclusive on "Quatro Grado"
After four years in prison will be in a studio with Salvo Sottile

13:08 - For the first time since his release from prison in a television studio, Raffaele Sollecito is the focus of the new installment of Quatro Grado ("Fourth Degree"), live from the Palatino Centre in Rome Friday, November 4 at 21.10 on Retequattro. A month after the ruling of the Court of Appeal in Perugia since he regained freedom after 4 years imprisonment for the murder of Meredith Kercher, Raffaele Sollecito is the guest for his first television interview.
A long face-off between the host Salvo Sottile and the Giovinazzo boy who at first was accused, along with his girlfriend Amanda Knox, of being the murderer of young British student murdered in her house in Perugia on the night of November 1, 2007 .

"Fourth Degree" is a program designed by Videonews, headed by Claudio Brachino, edited by Siria Magri, Sabrina Scampini and Salvo Sottile. Director, Dario Calleri. Executive producer - Simon Lazzarini.


TGCOM


Last edited by guermantes on Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox has got a new fella

By FELIX ALLEN

THE SUN

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Has Foxy Knoxy got a new man in her life already?

By Tom Leonard
Last updated at 12:52 PM on 3rd November 2011

THE DAILY MAIL
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

OT-The Joy of Writing

http://manfromatlan.blogspot.com/2011/1 ... iting.html
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox Latest News: Kercher Family Set Up Fund to Appeal Knox Acquittal
By CP News Briefs

CHRISTIAN POST

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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

guermantes wrote:
Has Foxy Knoxy got a new man in her life already?

By Tom Leonard
Last updated at 12:52 PM on 3rd November 2011

THE DAILY MAIL


Wonder if she met that dude on a train too ??

Or maybe while picking up the free clothing from the bin at the nearest Homeless shelter :roll:
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I think we need to be clear. It needs to be spelt out. Whilst the major portion of the US media is treating Knox as no longer being a crime figure, but rather as a z-list celeb of whom they've not got into their knickers yet and the Knox family are working out the maximum amount of peanuts they can pick out of poop via revenues from media interviews and book deals and Knox's supporters are rushing to defend her in every comments section of every news article that could be perceived to be in any way negative about her, it is all noise drowning out the underlying and important story. That story is as follows:

1. Knox is a convicted criminal, despite the word 'innocent' bandied about so much next to her name in the press. She was sentenced to three years for that. We aren't talking misdemeanor here.

2. She was originally convicted and despite her acquittal on appeal, the evidence certainly strongly indicates her guilt and there is not a shred of evedence to support her being innocent (as is claimed by her supporters...what is this evidence of innocence?

3. She faces a second calunnia trial early next year.

4. The prosecution are appealing her murder acquittal.

5. The Kercher family are supporting the prosecution appeal. The Kercher family are setting up a fund to help them aid the prosecution in that appeal. The Kercher family have not once requested that the prosecution/police reopen the investigation. The police are not looking for anyone else and neither are the Kerchers. It is therefore, very clear that the Kerchers (along with the Italian authorities) strongly believe in the guilt of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito and are PURSUING justice against them.

This means:

a) Bloggers and commenters on the web can pack in the 'She's been acquitted, just leave her alone' (not going to happen)

and

b) As Administrator of PMF.net I offer our full support to the Kercher family in their quest both for remembrance of Meredith and their struggle for justice. I lend the full support of PMF to their planned trust fund and offer the site for what ever use they or others acting on their behalf, see fit in order to establish, administrate or promote it. Please feel free to contact me and with full discretion, I will help in any way I possibly can. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I'm also certain many members here would like to help as well.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

A poster recently criticised me (gently) for allowing the likes of Rose Montegue on here. To reinforce that, they posted posts she had made about the Kerchers.

I understand that criticism and it's valid. Rose is one of the best of a very bad bunch. It's true, I showed her courtesy, but I've never claimed she was a decent human being. She has shown she isn't, not just with her recent comments but also ones at far earlier times (comments about homeless people come to mind). However, that said, we cannot have a site where membership is permitted on the basis of whether they are 'nice' people or not, rather it must be via a set of on site rules and ethos. And that must be determined by how they behave ON SITE, not elsewhere, no matter how repulsively they may behave elsewhere. Trust me when I say, I'm itching to ban people like Rose...but I have to be FAIR. If I'm not and I just do things by decree, then I'm no longer an Administrator, I'm a dictator and I don't want to be that. It would be a very dark road for PMF were I or anyone else in my stead to become that. We stick to our values, even if that means there's a price because to go the other way would lead to the destruction of PMF and everything we stand for.

The other reason I tolerate it is because I can UNDERSTAND it. Why do the likes of Rose and her fellow cultists see fit to attack the Kerchers? The answer is, because they are defensive. And they are so defensive because they know, despite their mantra, there is a lot of evidence against Knox, that a large portion of the world doesn't buy her acquittal and that that very acquittal is precarious with an appeal in the works and other charges in the wings. They are defensive, because they know despite all their claims, Knox is not home and dry. And they also know, that in being her loud supporters they are also tainted by whatever shit sticks to her.

And out there, there are far worse than Rose. There are people, using Meredith in the most shameful and crass way, to attack those with which they have an axe to grind. It's actually...sickening. A member sent it to me in PM. I kept my reply short and curt, because it's something you either say a thousand words about or nothing at all. It upset me so much, I chose the latter. I opted not to post the link on the board because I thought it so offensive, but shall now...if you want a happy evening, put off following the link until later. This was posted by the scuzz bucket that was trying to sell naked photos of Amanda Knox around the tabloids: http://perugiashock.com/ (scroll down for his crap).

As I've said, many times in the past, most of those that have thrown their hat in with Knox don't really care about Knox...they don't care about Meredith...they have their own thing going on. These people are faux knights in shining armour.

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Offline billyryan


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

How many millions will Amanda Knox make out of telling her story,what do the posters here think she should spend some of her knew found wealth on
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Well, Michael, let me remind you about DONNIE. He posted elsewhere as to his true feelings. It was by him posting elsewhere, and his using PMF as to his agenda, that his true nature was exposed.

Rose is quick to run over to his/her site, and incite fellow members to malign PMF.

If I wanted to read, or * debate * with the likes of those kind of posters, I'd go there.

You're the moderator, and it's your site.

I'm nt posting here, if the likes of Rose are allowed to use this site.

It's not the FIRST time, that Rose has demeaned and insulted John Kercher.

And, I'm totally against anyone who does that.

Two faced doesn't cut it, when one sees the whole cloth.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

billyryan wrote:
How many millions will Amanda Knox make out of telling her story,what do the posters here think she should spend some of her knew found wealth on


Hi billyryan. What money? There's a lot of talk of money, but the fact is I don't think she's legally allowed to any of it. She's a convicted criminal. I would have thought Son of Sam laws apply. Moreover, the process regarding her murderer status isn't complete...that's still going through the courts, albeit abroad. So, is she free to go out and sell, sell, sell? I don't think so.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Cape wrote:
Well, Michael, let me remind you about DONNIE. He posted elsewhere as to his true feelings. It was by him posting elsewhere, and his using PMF as to his agenda, that his true nature was exposed.


To be fair, the case of Donnie is rather different. He had a presence here and that presence was built on a platform of deceit. And yes, how someone behaves elsewhere CAN effect their status here (if like in Donnies case it reveals his presence here has been all about deceit), but I see his case as being atypical rather then being that of the typical FOAKer. For example, Rose has never lied about her beliefs and where her loyalties lie. We know where she stands, she knows where we stand and despite how much we may disagree, we are both (sides) honest about our position. Not so Donnie.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nevertheless, we are a forum dedicated to jutice for Meredith, and that encompasses justice for her family.

For me, I cannot condone slurs against the family. Under any circumstances.

It's one thing, to be honest about one's opinion, quite another to tolerate the statements made by Rose.

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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
billyryan wrote:
How many millions will Amanda Knox make out of telling her story,what do the posters here think she should spend some of her knew found wealth on


Hi billyryan. What money? There's a lot of talk of money, but the fact is I don't think she's legally allowed to any of it. She's a convicted criminal. I would have thought Son of Sam laws apply. Moreover, the process regarding her murderer status isn't complete...that's still going through the courts, albeit abroad. So, is she free to go out and sell, sell, sell? I don't think so.


After reading Cape's well founded concerns about who posts what here....

May I ask why we are entertaining the likes of billyryan ???

Of course, it may just be a coincidence. :roll:
But the billyryan from JREF is in addition to being one of the most obnoxious posters there (quite an achievement) is also one of the least intelligent and least literate.

Since the billyryan you reply to above seems to have difficulty with how to use and spell 'new', I strongly suspect he is one in the same with the JREF dunce.

As Cape says, Michael, it is your board, and we all are here at your discretion.
Just wondering why you tolerate the likes of billyryan...especially on thursday.

If you need it, read a few of the simpleton garbage posts he writes.
Read the grade school names he calls the Italian Prosecutor, his staff, and other Italian law enforcement personnel.
Read his disgusting disrespect for Mr Kercher, his Family, as well as Meredith.

If you remember 'withnail1969', billyryan is an understudy

Here are two quick examples of why he is so undesirable even to JREF:

19th February 2011, 05:22 AM #212
billyryan
Thinker
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 187

...........billyryans words of wisdom were........Deleted by Mods...........

Mod Warning
Edited for civility. Please remember your Membership Agreement and keep the debate civil and polite.
Posted By:Rat
Last edited by Rat; 19th February 2011 at 06:50 AM

He also answered Justinian2 about being banned elsewhere
21st January 2011, 11:31 AM #830
billyryan
Thinker

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 187

[quote=Justinian2;6790593]

The PMFers and TrueJustice are two of those groups. It took me a few posts to get booted from the PMF. I never even got to post on TrueJustice.
Has anyone here been a member of Truejustice?

billyryan's brilliant answer:
I was a member of true justice about last March,I got about four posts printed,after that they invited me to leave.
Now and again I type up a post when I hit the submit button I get told I am not allowed to post
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... ost6791072
_______________________

Please Michael, reconsider allowing him to ask stupid questions here about Knox's blood money and what she should do with it.

billyryan has disrespected the Kercher Family and Meredith much more than Rose ever has.
He has just not done so as recently, nor on the sad Anniversary.
billyryan has none of Rose's usual courtesy to other posters, well above average intelligence, and often well presented posts that even if arguing innocence are often very good reads .
billyryan is more of a phoney than even Donnie was/is.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
I'm not posting here, if the likes of Rose are allowed to use this site.


Cape, please don't leave because of Rose! Maybe that's what "they" are trying to do - to get a foot in and create discord and disharmony among us.

I think I've found a possible solution to the Rose problem (for myself). Just this morning, I added him/her (because, in the past, someone mentioned that Rose might actually be a man!) to my otherwise empty "Foe" list, and true enough his (her?) posts got fully hidden. ["Foes are users, which will be ignored by default."] It's a great feeling being able to ignore Rose's posts. Easy to use feature and highly recommended:

Go to your PM box
Choose "Friends and Foes" from the menu/sidebar
Choose "Manage Foes" and follow instructions
Add RoseMontag(ue)'s name to the list
Submit
Done!

Of course, if someone were to quote Rose's posts, you couldn't avoid reading them in quotes. So, even as it is, the ignore feature seems to have limited power over preventing someone from reading something they don't wish to. Still, it's handy to have around. For example, I can't even stand looking at Rose's avatar - I have an aversion to it. So, at least, with the ignore function, I'm spared from seeing her avatar and witnessing her arrival.

Another suggestion would be to take Tuesdays off from reading the board. Sometimes, it's good to step away from the computer and do something else instead, like walking in the fresh air. r-((

Hope that helps. :)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Nevertheless, we are a forum dedicated to jutice for Meredith, and that encompasses justice for her family.

For me, I cannot condone slurs against the family. Under any circumstances.

It's one thing, to be honest about one's opinion, quite another to tolerate the statements made by Rose.




We aren't condoning them, Cape and we never will.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Stint wrote:
After reading Cape's well founded concerns about who posts what here....

May I ask why we are entertaining the likes of billyryan ???

Of course, it may just be a coincidence.
But the billyryan from JREF is in addition to being one of the most obnoxious posters there (quite an achievement) is also one of the least intelligent and least literate.



I don't read the JREF Stint, but if Billyryan is a FOAKer then he shouldn't be posting here until the allotted day for FOAKers (Tuesday). If he behaves here as you claim he does on the JREF, then his stay here will be very short.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I'm not a person to ignore things, G. One cannot be thin skinned, posting on this case. I've had more than my share of bullying on Jref, for instance.

I prefer to handle things head on...especially as I think, more than often, I'm right. :)

In any event, I'll stay, and swallow hard. Out of respect for Michael, you and some good friends, like Stint and Jackie.

I'll use the scroll feature, as I don't think Rose adds anything to the debate. Sooner or later, it'll get boring, running back to Jref, to whinge about how badly she's treated. I mean, how many times can one sulk about the same thing, FFS.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

indie wrote:
http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/01/amanda-knox-meredith-kercher-murder-4-year-anniversary-self-defense-krav-maga/?adid=recentlyupdatedstories#.TrIFMmB5FQY

I am not sure if this video clip has been posted so delete Michael if it is not appropriate at this time. It is very eerie to watch Amanda as she hones her fighting techniques.

This video shows that AK feels the need to have 'something' to defend herself. So the thought of judge Massei that she had the kitchen knife in her bag for self defense wasn't so strange after all.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

max wrote:
indie wrote:
http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/01/amanda-knox-meredith-kercher-murder-4-year-anniversary-self-defense-krav-maga/?adid=recentlyupdatedstories#.TrIFMmB5FQY

I am not sure if this video clip has been posted so delete Michael if it is not appropriate at this time. It is very eerie to watch Amanda as she hones her fighting techniques.

This video shows that AK feels the need to have 'something' to defend herself. So the thought of judge Massei that she had the kitchen knife in her bag for self defense wasn't so strange after all.



And not so strange anyway, when you also consider that Knox carried protection on her whilst she was in Germany before going to Italy (mace I believe).

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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Stint wrote:
After reading Cape's well founded concerns about who posts what here....

May I ask why we are entertaining the likes of billyryan ???

Of course, it may just be a coincidence.
But the billyryan from JREF is in addition to being one of the most obnoxious posters there (quite an achievement) is also one of the least intelligent and least literate.



I don't read the JREF Stint, but if Billyryan is a FOAKer then he shouldn't be posting here until the allotted day for FOAKers (Tuesday). If he behaves here as you claim he does on the JREF, then his stay here will be very short.


Sorry, Michael.
I understand that you no longer read JREF, and fully understand why.
billyryan posted many of his almost 200 semi readable, insulting, attack style garbage posts on JREF back when Fulcanelli was very active and the target of so much attack vitriol there.

billyryan IS a FOAKer.
He is a very aggressive attack oriented, obnoxious, semi literate FOAKer and has always been so.

However, you are correct that the 'billyryan' posting for the first time here may not be the same 'billyryan' who has made such a fool of himself on JREF with his sickening style.
I have no way of knowing that he is or is not.

However few people abuse the English language as distinctively and as often as he always did on JREF.
Now IMHO, billyryan tips his true identity hand here and strongly suggests he is one in the same billyryan.
billyryan was clearly unable to know the difference between "new" meaning not old, and "knew" meaning familiar with.
This in his first post here yesterday.

That is not a common shortcoming for those of us who are adults with a common language.
Additionally, it is very distinctive, very easily recognized, and IMHO, very incriminating as to the true Foaker identity of billyryan

I personally find that he and his ilk leave a distinct 'odor'.
I personally find this very repulsive wherever they appear.
For the record, that 'odor' and repulsiveness has no relation to his apparent 2nd grade abilities with his only language.
It is the typical JREF Continuation Thread obnoxious sickening 'sh-t' from billyryan, Brucie, L J, Inhumanity, Kevin, snookie1 and their lesser kin that I abhor and suggest needs to be limited/avoided here.

Whatever you do, I along with Cape, very much respect your excellent judgment and unfailing fairness that you always share here for all of us on your Forum


Last edited by stint7 on Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Stint wrote:
Whatever you do, I along with Cape, very much respect your excellent judgment and unfailing fairness that you always share here for all of us on your Forum


'Our' forum :)

As for Billyryan, if he's who you say he is then he will certainly trip himself up here sooner rather then later. There are rules here and the rabid variety of FOAKer seem to find it impossible to adhere to them for very long.

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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
[quote= "Stint"]Whatever you do, I along with Cape, very much respect your excellent judgment and unfailing fairness that you always share here for all of us on your Forum


Michael wrote:
'Our' forum :)
As for Billyryan, if he's who you say he is then he will certainly trip himself up here sooner rather then later. There are rules here and the rabid variety of FOAKer seem to find it impossible to adhere to them for very long.


That is so very, very true.
Rabid writing style and stupidity is definitely a deadly combination.
As a matter of fact, just yesterday, Brucie and snookie both got yellow tag warnings (Yet again) for their latest violations and personal attacks on other JREF posters
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

billyryan wrote:
How many millions will Amanda Knox make ?


Not very much. Gogerty Marriott, lots. I think Marriott's pitching "A Knox Family Christmas" to ABC, and they're trying to get knife boy to drop in, but Papa Sollecito has more brains than all of them combined, so that's unlikely.

Me, I say whichever publishing house is offering her "millions" will learn to regret that, and ABC, once the viewer ratings come in, will be firing the producer, just sayin' :)

Now that Knox is home, her value as a media 'get' plummets every day. And the moment she opens her mouth, most people will start to question whether she is innocent or not.

It's interesting, the vicarious pleasure you seem to get that she might become rich. PR specialists know how fickle public interest can be, and the more time passes by, the more unlikely it will happen. Marriott should have nalled a deal the day after she was released. And you still have the uncertainty of the Supreme Court appeal.

Millions? No.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Manipulation in the name of a murdered girl
by Drdavidanderson November 04, 2011

GROUND REPORT

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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Manipulation in the name of a murdered girl
by Drdavidanderson November 04, 2011

GROUND REPORT


Anderson is such a bigoted, biased, agenda driven, dimwitted dolt.

He uses the bottom feeder rag Ground Report to just join the cabal of Bash Mr Kercher thug FOAKers who lack even the most minute bit of common human decency.
Absolutely sickening to attack a grieving Father this way on the particularly significant Anniversary of his beloved daughter's murder.
Mr Kercher did little other than suggest that Knox's typically insensitive choice of costumes for her Marriott publicity push Halloween pictures brought back memories of Meredith's senseless murder.

So Anderson finds it necessary to jump on the latest FOAKer manure wagon. ta-))
He ridicules Mr Kercher's career as a journalist in the elitist style common to some egotistical 'Doctors'
He uses the opportunity to also attack Attorney Maresca, and even brings in Harry Rag.
He concludes with an incredibly ignorant bit of sickeningly stupid snark about Meredith's final resting place in Croydon.

Anderson, Brucie, and Ground Report; perfect together tu-)) tu-)) tu-))
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Offline donnie

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Cape wrote:
Well, Michael, let me remind you about DONNIE. He posted elsewhere as to his true feelings. It was by him posting elsewhere, and his using PMF as to his agenda, that his true nature was exposed.


To be fair, the case of Donnie is rather different. He had a presence here and that presence was built on a platform of deceit. And yes, how someone behaves elsewhere CAN effect their status here (if like in Donnies case it reveals his presence here has been all about deceit), but I see his case as being atypical rather then being that of the typical FOAKer. For example, Rose has never lied about her beliefs and where her loyalties lie. We know where she stands, she knows where we stand and despite how much we may disagree, we are both (sides) honest about our position. Not so Donnie.


Just to make things clear - first of all, from what I've seen, there is a day for people that are being called FOAkers, I know, but since I wont be here on Tuesday, I'll say something right now.

Second of all, when I first came here, though a little bit harsh, I wasn't really sure if AK and RS were invovled. I was shocked to see people attacking Knox family and if I can remember correctly, my first posts were about it. Then, while learning and reading about the case, mostly on your site, I thought that maybe after all they were involved. By then, there was no other activity for me on other boards regarding this case.

Months went by and I found a couple of sites, like Injustice In Perugia and few others that basically explained the same things you explained, but as you know, in a quite different way. My beliefs started to change, my opinion about the case also. It was the right time to quit PMF, but I never did. It may sound horrible for some of you, but I actually made some friends here and at the same time PMF was still one of the best places to get the news about what was going on.

People were sending me nice PM's, with words of support. Very few of them knew, that I had serious doubts (and if you like to call it that way - I thought AK was hot) about their guilt.

By that time, I started posting on other boards. On both I wrote quite similiar things and on both I tried to show off and explained to people how I think there's no evidence etc. SA, famously, caught me. I apologized, but it was definitely too late. During these few months after busting me, people still wrote me PM's. Some of them were nasty, but most of them were not that bad, people had mixed feelings about me, some people wrote nice things and that I shouldn't be worried about other people's opinions.

Also, during my stay here, on PMF, I never ever offended Meredith or her family.

I've let myself down and people here, not beacuse I wholeheartedly believe both Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent, but beacuse I lied.

During the time that people were discussing what has happened with Donnie, I was called an idiot million times, I was also called an aggressive person and there were so many bad things said about me, that I was actually really shocked that adult people, people that are well educated and with huge life experience, can be so full of hate, especially when it's against a person that they've never met. However, all this time I never, ever called anyone on PMF an idiot. Never.

Long story short - I believe AK and RS were not involved, I lied before, I disrespected the boards by lying to you. Peggy's version of PMF and people's comments there are making me feel bad. I'm not here to judge anyone, as it's me who should be judged by you, but PMF.org crossed the line with it's attitude. The hate and venom is overwhelming there. I'm against any personal remarks, off topic posts and going after someone. I'm only interested in the case and the facts. I always was.

My recent ban from there was caused by yet another attack on me, not the other way. I had to defend myself and as usual, my words were twisted and twisted, to the point where no one really knew what I've said in the first place and it wasn't offending.

The PM's that I was writing here were only written in my defense. Writing off topic posts, like this one, wasn't the best way to present my point of view, so I wrote PM's. It's not that easy when people are saying mean things, I just had to defend myself.

And, I'm more than sure that I won't be posting here due to many reasons. People would freak out seeing me writing day in day out and as it has happened before, they would say something along the lines - if he's here, I'm gone. Don't worry, I'm not gonna post. That's all I wanted to say.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Raffaele Sollecito in a studio interviewed by Salvo Sottile during the recording of the show "Fourth grade"

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

THE INTERVIEW
Sollecito on TV: "I ask for justice
and wish Amanda much happiness"


The boy acquitted of murdering British student Meredith Kercher with his ex-girlfriend: "I feel the duty to report inconsistencies and errors in the system, I am not afraid of the final verdict"

Attachment:
Sollecito in a studio (Quarto Grado).jpg


"Fast and dirty" Google translation:

"I'm not afraid of the verdict. I'm fine and I'm slowly regaining normality, but after all that I’ve suffered in four years, my life has changed forever." Raffaele Sollecito is telling his story, in front of the cameras, for the first time after his acquittal for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher. The interview will air tonight at 21.10 on Channel 4, during the program 'Fourth Degree'. "I decided to break the silence - said the young man - because I feel the duty to report inconsistencies and errors in the system which puts two innocent people in jail for four years. Amanda, I wish you all the joy of the world and to be happy."

Together with the family of Meredith, "I ask for justice" and "pray for them every day" for "the truth to come out." Sollecito, the young man who was acquitted of his crime on appeal, addressed a thought to the family of the slain British student in Perugia. "If I were them, I would fight to the utmost to find out what happened and not to keep [innocent] people in jail." The young man said he had tried to get in touch with the Kercher family, but added, "I found a locked door and then I left to lose." According to Sollecito, "the ruling reflected a part of the truth, but now you should investigate all other aspects of the case." Sollecito has also told about his long experience of life in prison and its lasting effects, particularly during the first six months by adding that he has always prayed. "It’s a complex world - said Raffaele - the black mirror of society is real. To give me strength, there was my family and also many people who have written to me: I have a room flooded with letters, especially from families. I was in solitary confinement and during my six months there I feared losing my mind. But I never thought of self-mutilation. At first, the other inmates treated me like a spoiled child. There were those who told me 'You will see what will happen to us', 'You must think of the poor Meredith'; and then, when I came back to jail [after my acquittal], so many had enjoyed my release."

White shirt and striped sweater, blue and green college colors, Sollecito had betrayed the emotion when he spoke of Amanda Knox, his former girlfriend. For the rest, during the long interview with Salvo Sottile, he has kept his cool and did not respond to detailed questions about the process. For the Apulian boy his was "a unique case in the world" that "had a spasmodic interest of all media." Because of this, "I feel compelled to highlight what has been a gross injustice and a big mistake. What I wish is that this does not happen again."

Sollecito said he had heard during the trial, "so many infamies" from people who "have not been honest: I have heard unbelievable testimonies." Nevertheless, the "culprits" that Sollecito thought to have been powered via the web and gossip from the media, did not touch [affect] him much. And in fact "in the street, I always received demonstrations of solidarity." "No - he said - I have never said more than a 'I do not know what to think of the case.' " Sollecito calls himself "an honest boy, very sweet and with a huge heart." And he is convinced that his father has never doubted him: "My honesty is transparent" and "If I were to commit a stupid act like stealing an apple, I would immediately confess it to my father."

The fact that Amanda was photographed dressed as a burglar on Halloween, "is not a scandal." "There, in the United States, Halloween is a festival very much liked." Asked if he would do the same on the day Meredith Kercher was killed, on the day of Halloween, Sollecito said: "I commemorate the Day of the Dead, November 2. But if all my friends wear makeup and dress up, there I see nothing wrong." "In these four years, a genuine affection has arisen between me and Amanda - said Sollecito - Together we were victims of an injustice, an appalling tragedy that has altered our lives." For this reason, the original feelings for Amanda "were completely choked off", and left room only for a "great affection".

That story of "cuddling and affection", that "romance of love" that Sollecito said he had also lived with Amanda the night Meredith was killed, is thus finished. Although the young Raffaele was invited to join her in the United States: "It’s true, she invited me and I want to go and see her, but I do not know when. I am rebuilding my life." Everything else, all those "stupid" [rumors], Sollecito says, that were improperly attributed to Amanda, are just "gossip" that should not be mixed with "this tragedy". The Apulian boy, finally, called it "all hype" -- the possibility that he may have been "dominated by Amanda": "It started with an assumption, namely, that Amanda was guilty. Since I have always told the truth and have been acquitted, I have always tried to protest against the view that I was a "dominated personality." Asked whether he fears that the verdict of acquittal could be overturned in the Supreme Court, Raffaele said he was not afraid, but: "Once you've burned, after being convicted in the first degree, it is obvious that you have a sense of frustration ".
(04 November 2011)


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Death in Perugia: John Follain, review
John Follain's 'Death in Perugia' is the first full account of the Amanda Knox trial.

By Ed Cumming

5:48PM GMT 04 Nov 2011

THE TELEGRAPH

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

For Raffie: PFFT !!!

Not talking much about THAT NIGHT, is he? Oh, he's so honest right? Ummm, how about : WHY DID HE SAY AMANDA TOLD HIM TO SAY A LOT OF MERDE?????

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I Hope Zorba's OK.

Where are you, Zorba?

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
For Raffie: PFFT !!!

Not talking much about THAT NIGHT, is he? Oh, he's so honest right? Ummm, how about : WHY DID HE SAY AMANDA TOLD HIM TO SAY A LOT OF MERDE?????

Weird guy. Did he really just compare not lying about stealing an apple to not lying about the murder? Whatever. Seems like he is still pissed about AK dominating him. I am surprised he didn't mention the police took his shoes :)
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

max wrote:
capealadin wrote:
For Raffie: PFFT !!!

Not talking much about THAT NIGHT, is he? Oh, he's so honest right? Ummm, how about : WHY DID HE SAY AMANDA TOLD HIM TO SAY A LOT OF MERDE?????

Weird guy. Did he really just compare not lying about stealing an apple to not lying about the murder? Whatever. Seems like he is still pissed about AK dominating him. I am surprised he didn't mention the police took his shoes :)


Max, the shoes reference was magnificent. cl-) tt-) cl-)
I have been chuckling about that all morning.

Note shoes behind laughing doggies :D


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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

If anyone has a shadow of doubt that billyryan is a typically sneaky deceitful FOAKer, check this:

From today on JLOL:

Today, 06:09 AM #14645
billyryan
Thinker
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 188

Originally Posted by NewtonTrino
View Post
Today was one of the rare days where I ended up driving over to West Seattle. As I drove back and forth I thought of how close Amanda probably was and how she was probably really enjoying the freedom of not being stuck in a jail in Italy. It was a bit cold and a bit rainy in Seattle today but I bet you that Amanda was enjoying every damn minute of it. Suck on that guilters

Originally Posted by billyryan
I like your post,to add to that all of the money that she has already got and is going to get to tell her story will enable Amanda to live where she pleases to travel when and where she pleases to work or not work as she decides,there is hopefully great days coming for Amanda Knox while the guilters shrivel in misery,guilters ye can suck on that as well.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... ost7732702


Note
1) 2nd grade failing sentence structure to go along with the billyryan here yesterday unable to differentiate between "new" and "knew".
2) The billyryan here yesterday was also hung up on the blood money Knox will receive.
3) The hostile tone toward "guilters" who he tried to sucker in yesterday here

Conclusion:
1) billyryan here and there is one in same sickening FOAKer
2) billyryan revealed himself as a deceitful dishonest dork (like so many FOAKers are) by attempting to fool Michael and "the guilters" by posting his BS here yesterday.


Suck on that, billyryan.
That is if you can spare the time from telling L J how great he is.
(great = being able to spell and use the words "new/knew" correctly and without confusion)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox Verdict To Be Appealed
November 05, 2011 08:20 AM EDT

by Chelsea Hoffman

GATHER

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I find it rather rich that Sollecito was only too happy to give a television interview, where there would be no hard questions...in return for cash, but never once was willing to take the stand in his trial or appeal to attempt to defend himself.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

The following was tweeted earlier by Ann Wise:

thewiseann Ann Wise
No one watching Sollecito on Quarto Grado tonight? Naive, not to say childish, not very smart, does not use conjunctive once, harmless?

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Complete Quarto Grado interview is now online @video.mediaset.it

You can watch the interview at this link: QUARTO GRADO 4 NOV

(Ensure you are running the latest version of the Silverlight plug-in)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I'm re-posting Popper's summary of the interview. Thank you, Popper, for taking the time to write it.

Popper wrote:
...
I give you a few of my impressions.
-------
1) Lots of not very meaningful questions. Lots of stupid answers.

Sottile says he would ask hard questions but does not, not even one ... [Sottile confirms to be a superficial reporter, a "lot of oysters and no pearls" ... that is why he works in the channel of Emilio Fede, the most disgraceful reporter in Italy, servant of Berlusconi]

2) Raffaele was not asked ONCE why he lied during the investigation.

3) Very poor Italian grammar from Raffaele ... [who gave him a University degree? He speaks like a real ignorant ... mistakes on conditionals, congiuntivo ... a disaster ... a shallow person, this is my impression ... sorry, this guy has sawdust in his head ... Now I understand why he hooked up with Amanda]

4) Raffaele said he was always transparent ... he said he was always truthful [YEAH, never testified !!]. Sottile does not even reply with a question.

5) Raffaele said when judge said the first few words "partial reform of sentence" he thought he would still be convicted.

6) Lots of rehearsed phrases. Clearly interview pre-agreed and recorded, so RS was probably paid.
Raffaele talks about generic dishonest witnesses.
Very generic, lots of words not touching the merit of facts ... not the way an innocent man talks ... this interview was a mistake for RS ... he says things like "we knew in our heart [we were innocent]". Strange words. Either you know or you do not, heart is not important and evokes something you are not really sure of.

7) At least Sottile says there is still Cassazione and the trial is not finished.

8) Long pre-recorded video to remember Meredith.
Raffaele said he tried to contact the Kerchers at the beginning but with no success, he gave up

9) Sottile said again he is about to ask about that night but does not really, not the particulars. RS says "one cannot remember all particulars", he remembers he was with Amanda, tenderness ... and he was full of joy ... that night was similar to other nights. Sottile gives up immediately. RS speaks using imagery ("it was a seed planted ...") again speaks of all but facts.

10) Story with AK is over, "intrinsic affection" [in Italian it does not mean anything], his sentiments suffocated by injustice. True they invited him in the US ... RS does not wish people to mix case with personal matters.

11) When second host [this Sabina lady] speaks about reconstruction of first degree sentence .... possible sexual motive ... Raffaele does not feel any wish to comment. Sottile immediately helps Raffaele switching to drugs and asks him if he ever smoked. Easy answer. The kissing and hugging post murder is explained as comfort kissing and tenderness, not passion.

12) What did you learn in jail? "black mirror of real society" then RS elaborates only on his "images of mind" and comparisons, never on real facts [only a few facts on his first 6 months of isolation] ... anyway now he goes on to facts ...he was protected in jail from others ... some told him "god will punish you" ... "think of poor Meredith". As years went by, insults went down. At the end some were his friends. The most precise fact of this interview.
Sottile reminds him people in Perugia outside the tribunal protesting ...

13) They briefly touch on Guede who said they were there. Video of what RG said in court against AK... they do not show what he said against RS. RS says his lawyers are sure RG was the only killler, RS says he does not care.

14) Brief superficial discussion on why they were convicted in first degree ... Sabina [one of the hosts] says RS was basically convicted only for bra clasp so ... in appeal .. etc. etc. Sottile asked: "Have you ever touched that bra clasp?" RS evades from answer [does not say no] "this evidence makes no sense, I was in that house ... this evidence is very controversial" and Sottile leaves at that.

15) RS said he is not afraid of Cassazione ... but then he explains he is basically afraid.

16) Last question what would you say to Kerchers? RS responds with hesitating words [he is troubled even in putting a few words together] "what happened to your daughter is incredible ... [in their shoes] I would do everything to go deeper in this story, I just feel to give them an embrace ... so they can have the truth and justice".

Posted by Popper » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:46 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Thanks so much, G. I will watch the vid later. I'm interested in seeing the body language. So far, without watching, and reading the summary, Raffie seems most alive, when refuting he was doninated by the Saint Amanda.


Right now..and this is OT..I'm watching the Breeder's Cup. I love the back stories.

Aidan O'Brian, an Irish trainer, won the $3,000,000.00 The Emirates cup. Nicholas Abbey won, and Aidan's 18 year old son was the jockey. They came from Ireland for the race. It was a joy to watch, and the Irish are just great horsemen. And, lovely people.

I'm thrilled.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Raffaele Sollecito a Quarto Grado: "L'humus mediatico contro di me. Il mio caso unico al mondo".

Raffaele Sollecito on Quarto Grado: "Humus [sludge] media is against me. My case is unique in the world".

Reaction on Twitter to yesterday's interview

The Web comments on Raffaele's appearance on Quarto Grado

...People on the web react to the statements of Sollecito...

PROSPECTS FOR THE FUTURE - Twitter users comment on the interview with Quarto Grado, and, for the most part, seem happy to hear about the boy from Puglia. Although Sollecito defined himself as "an honest boy, very sweet and with a huge heart, my honesty is transparent and, if I were to commit a stupid act like stealing an apple, I would immediately confess it to my father," he does not seem to convince the public of the web. Not a few cases of judgmental comments on the spectacle with predictable changes à la Franzoni: Annarossi1984, for example, writes: "A reminder to Sollecito: make sure you publish a book #quartogrado ". ValentinaPage thinks of the movies: "Sollecito seems like a character in a Pieraccioni*** film #quartogrado ".

EVERYONE JOKES - Some people even laugh at the tales of the young man [from Puglia], as KiaraSiciliano: "Sollecito said: ‘Prisoners celebrated [my release] by banging on the bars and stoves ...' Thank you # quartogrado, I’m dying of laughter." HarryLongo even writes to Salvo Sottile asking him to go deeper into the matter and satisfy viewers' curiosity about the former boyfriend of Knox: "@ salvosottile: [You] need to be more pungent! I'd like to know the opinion of some psychologists, who heard and saw Sollecito". Leleprox puts it even more succinctly: "Butcher Sollecito # quartogrado." Unastellacometa is no less: "Raffaele Sollecito is an idiot", followed by MariaRosaMare who wonders "But is Sollecito normal? # quartogrado ". It seems that nobody likes him, so that DanyThani writes: "Take me out to Sollecito before your eyes." Funku’s humor breaks the tension: " “I propose Sollecito as a candidate for honorary degree in Dental Hygiene", then adds, "Sollecito did not watch CSI. Preferred ‘Dexter’ ". Not content, he continues: "Indeed, it is implausible to think that Sollecito could have touched a bra." He concludes: "Sollecito became numb from mental clarity." In short, Raffaele seems to be right: "L'humus mediatico" is against him."

Giornalettismo

***Leonardo Pieraccioni --> Wikipedia

- 'Dexter' --> IMBd


Last edited by guermantes on Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

billyryan wrote:
How many millions will Amanda Knox make out of telling her story,what do the posters here think she should spend some of her knew found wealth on


IMHO, if there's anything to spare after the PR team, lawyers and plaintiffs are paid in full, then Knox should put $$$ aside for:

Aciclovir;
antipsychotic meds;
psychotherapy;
grammar lessons;
etiquette lessons;
and a shit load of liposuction (if Edda is any hint of things to come).
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
So Right, Jackie. Could, possibly KL be an idiot?


I think you "could possibly" be right on the money there, Cape.

Where's JLOL's fat-thumbed, fake jurist when K-Lo ditches 'probable cause' in favor of a 'could possibly be involved' standard for the purposes of DNA search/ seizure?!

Off "flying private" and sucking back numbered ducks in Paris?!

Australian school teachers are no longer content to pretend they're doctors! Now they're pretending to be lawyers! Security of the person is under attack! Human rights are at stake! This is no time for LJ to be flying off to La Tour d'Argent like some tacky tourist!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Raffaele Sollecito on Quarto Grado (photo gallery): TV BLOG.it

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Manipulation in the name of a murdered girl
by Drdavidanderson November 04, 2011

GROUND REPORT

You've got people there who think Amanda didn't go to Meredith's memorial service because she was being torture at the police station at that time. (Actually, she stayed away, then went to buy undies with Rafffaele that evening)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Manipulation in the name of a murdered girl
by Drdavidanderson November 04, 2011

GROUND REPORT

You've got people there who think Amanda didn't go to Meredith's memorial service because she was being torture at the police station at that time. (Actually, she stayed away, then went to buy undies with Rafffaele that evening)


__________________

Ergon,

Amanda's sinful purchase of underpants happened on Saturday, November 3, 2007. Meredith's memorial service was on Monday night, November 5, 2007.

///
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Fine,

Your *sinful * sarcasm, re buying undies is not what the issue is. It was the talk of having wild sex and behaving in a way, that defies logic..when your * good friend * has just been murdered.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
So Right, Jackie. Could, possibly KL be an idiot?


I think you "could possibly" be right on the money there, Cape.

Where's JLOL's fat-thumbed, fake jurist when K-Lo ditches 'probable cause' in favor of a 'could possibly be involved' standard for the purposes of DNA search/ seizure?!

Off "flying private" and sucking back numbered ducks in Paris?!

Australian school teachers are no longer content to pretend they're doctors! Now they're pretending to be lawyers! Security of the person is under attack! Human rights are at stake! This is no time for LJ to be flying off to La Tour d'Argent like some tacky tourist!


The sentence : LJ flying private, and tucking into numbered ducks must be addressed :) pig-)

First and foremost the question is : Do we BELIEVE this to be true?
I would say NON. C'est pas vrais. I think LJ imagines scenarios as he lumbers to the corner store to get some milk. I ask you this. " Where is the scullery maid, to run errands? Where was the cook, to send the scullery maid?

Why can't LJ's imported french chef prepare his duck? Or, if it was the chef's day off, why didn't he send his pilot to nip over to france, and pick one up? I mean, Liz had Chasen's send over chili when she was filming in Rome :)

Of course, LJ might have wanted to use his french, when ordering a canard ( duck) I do hope he didn't say conard..which means asshole :)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jackie, you will LOVE this.......

Over on JLOL, Londonjohn has urged everyone to read a book, by Derren Brown. LJ is hugely impressed with him

The title? THE TRICKS OF THE MIND :)

I imagine Kevin Lowe also had a copy..........

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Manipulation in the name of a murdered girl
by Drdavidanderson November 04, 2011

GROUND REPORT

You've got people there who think Amanda didn't go to Meredith's memorial service because she was being torture at the police station at that time. (Actually, she stayed away, then went to buy undies with Rafffaele that evening)



No, the trip for undies and hot sex was the day after Meredith's body was found (3rd Nov). Meredith's candle light vigil wasn't until the 5th Nov, but instead of going to the vigil Raffaele and Amanda went out to have pizza where they were seen by a policeman. One gets the impression that they'd been let off being questioned that evening because the police had assumed or been informed that they were going to the vigil. When the policeman reported back that they were instead out eating pizza, that's when Raffaele was called in to the station, but didn't bother arriving until 10:15.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I wish Amanda Knox all the happiness in the world: Sollecito breaks his silence

By Nick Pisa

Last updated at 9:24 PM on 5th November 2011

DAILY MAIL

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Foxy Knoxy falls for a guitar man as she returns to 'normal' life

By Caroline Graham

Last updated at 2:17 AM on 6th November 2011

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

sp)
Michael wrote:
Foxy Knoxy falls for a guitar man as she returns to 'normal' life

By Caroline Graham

Last updated at 2:17 AM on 6th November 2011

MAIL ON SUNDAY


But has anyone told Raffie that he has been 'dumped' (again) ? eek-)

On a lighter *note* (pun intended)
Maybe the latest 'squeeze' will tutor her so she will eventually be able to play more than one chord on a guitar.
Future roommates, cellmates and guards would be thankful that Yay-)

Right up there with Raffie not having to give up his shoes now that "water has run uphill" for him.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

It's amazing really. Does anyone remember how while she was in Jail she was professing her love for DJ and how she only loved him and how she was going to get back with him when she was free? Now, she's gone with this other guy. DJ must be so upset, especially after fighting so hard for her, even going to Italy to visit her and attend court to show his support for her. Then, once free, just like Raffaele, he's no longer needed and is unceremoniously dumped.

And hey, Knox has hardly been back home for five minutes and she's not only hooked up with a new guy, but moved straight in with him, shades of Raffaele. This girl likes to have her sex on tap.

And oh dear, Madison also dumped. Wasn't Madison only recently declaring (and has been for many months), how she was looking forward to getting an apartment with Amanda? Now, she's been cast aside for the Italian Stallion, as she's no longer needed either.

Knox. People are just disposable fads to her. Poor Meredith was the most disposable of all. I wonder how long her Italian Stallion will last until he's yesterday's flavour.

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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

sp)
Michael wrote:
Foxy Knoxy falls for a guitar man as she returns to 'normal' life

By Caroline Graham

Last updated at 2:17 AM on 6th November 2011

MAIL IN SUNDAY


But has anyone told Raffie that he has been 'dumped' (again) ? eek-)

On a lighter *note* (pun intended)
Maybe the latest 'squeeze' will tutor her so she will eventually be able to play more than one chord on a guitar.
Future roommates, cellmates and guards would be thankful for that I am sure Yay-)

Right up there with Raffie not having to give up his ever so important shoes now that "water has run uphill" for him.
If he does come to visit his uhhh... *ex*.... how will he react when TSA screeners ask him to remove his shoes :lol:


Last edited by stint7 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox Stays in the Spotlight
Ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito is speaking out about their past relationship.
02:07 | 11/06/2011

ABC NEWS

(VIDEO)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Jackie, you will LOVE this.......

Over on JLOL, Londonjohn has urged everyone to read a book, by Derren Brown. LJ is hugely impressed with him

The title? THE TRICKS OF THE MIND :)

I imagine Kevin Lowe also had a copy..........


Ordinarily, I'd have had a good laugh at that one, Cape, but I'm feeling down today - seems I've been called an "idiot" by a learned jurist named "LondonJohn". Sure, his thumbs were too fat to allow him to write the LSAT but that doesn't mean he's not a bona fide legal genius! No one can Google the basics like LJ. No one. He can give you everything you need to know to cover the first 2 minutes of law school!!!

This is a travesty. Now I'll never be part of LJ's inner circle! I'll never know why the words "police should have obtained" are code for "police should have asked people to volunteer". And I'll never know why AK and RS are the only 2 people on the planet who are entitled to invoke their constitutional rights without "raising red flags for police"... Sigh. Who will resolve these mysteries for me now?!

Hey! Wait a minute! Maybe I can find the answers in "The Tricks of the Mind"!!!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
It's amazing really. Does anyone remember how while she was in Jail she was professing her love for DJ and how she only loved him and how she was going to get back with him when she was free? Now, she's gone with this other guy. DJ must be so upset, especially after fighting so hard for her, even going to Italy to visit her and attend court to show his support for her. Then, once free, just like Raffaele, he's no longer needed and is unceremoniously dumped.

And hey, Knox has hardly been back home for five minutes and she's not only hooked up with a new guy, but moved straight in with him, shades of Raffaele. This girl likes to have her sex on tap.

And oh dear, Madison also dumped. Wasn't Madison only recently declaring (and has been for many months), how she was looking forward to getting an apartment with Amanda? Now, she's been cast aside for the Italian Stallion, as she's no longer needed either.

Knox. People are just disposable fads to her. Poor Meredith was the most disposable of all. I wonder how long her Italian Stallion will last until he's yesterday's flavour.


What about poor, old "Bachelor Number 2" here?!

Image

No one put more of their heart and soul into the perversion of justice than creepy Mr. Bishop! Life just isn't fair.

As for Mad Pax's fate: I am Cape's complete lack of surprise ;-)


PS Somebody should have told Phanuel about Knoxy's preference for dudes in blue do-rags, although something tells me ol' Joey couldn't pull it off even if he were to magically lose 40 pounds and 30 years.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I have gone from laughs at Jackie and Stints posts , and then some consternation at the new boyfriend being called * handsome *... nw) btw, Jackie, the last photo of the guy holding cuckold, I thought at first it read * Cockhold* and thought wishful thinking. wan-)

The thing is, LJ knew he never had a chance with Manders, and may have been hoping that he could win her admiration for his copying and pasting skills. co-)

But, I have another way for him to go. He should fly her around, in the private jet. Take her for numbered fucks, oops, I mean ducks, and so on. She might like that, when she get's tired of living in a dump.

In her usual fashion, she gets together with nondescript, non threatening guys. Manders can't handle rejection, or competition. She doesn't get the fact, that she's so ordinary, that that's about the best she can hope for.

I hope, when she get's her big bucks, she'll sprint for another handbag. She uses the same one for every outfit. Some things never change. Raf spoke about her always using her USUAL one, back in Perugia.

Aaah, poor Maddie. Poor DJ. Poor supporters. Will the penny drop soon? Amanda USES people. Amanda cares only about Amanda. One day, she'll realize that there are people who are using her, though. Amanda is cheap ( in more ways than one ) and is not going to spread the wealth happily. Trust me on that.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Alright...I've listened for months and months about KL. I'm sick of it. He thinks he's important and that impression of himself has been doubled because others have paid him attention. Where's his import now? Knox is free and not a mention of him has she or her family given...unthinkable were he actually important. Yet here he is, remaining an arrogant twat with a short man complex whose students call him names behind his back. Best to leave him where he actually is in life, rather then elevating him. He depends on US to become important. Ignore him, then he dies...just as a fairy does every time you say you don't believe in fairies.

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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
..
In her usual fashion, she gets together with nondescript, non threatening guys. Manders can't handle rejection, or competition. She doesn't get the fact, that she's so ordinary, that that's about the best she can hope for...


Egocentricity, grandiosity and aggression in response to perceived slights are hallmarks of antisocial PD. I think we could be in for quite a show.

The first month post-acquittal has done nothing to dissuade me. I'm still shocked, stunned and amazed that Knox would dare to come within a mile of any activity that could be described, even remotely, as 'inappropriate', 'violent' and/or 'promiscuous' yet, in less than 4 weeks we have: a provocative Halloween costume; martial arts training and shacking up with yet another dude.

Guilty or innocent, how hard would it be to skip Halloween altogether (she's not 12, she's half way through her 20's FFS)?!

And after standing accused of inter alia staging a burglary, how hard would it have been to choose a costume that does not require a black skull cap?!

Indeed, how hard would it be to choose ANY hobby/ sport other than a martial art?! What happened to rock climbing?! I'm not saying she has to take up reading poetry to children and the elderly but Jiu-Jitsu?! Are you ***in' kidding me?! I felt physically sick watching her literally hack away at her 'opponent' in that TMZ video. Of all the things... And to say that it's to help her "defend" herself is a poor excuse - She couldn't really fend off a serious attacker in any event and, thanks to Marriott, her infamy is nowhere near Casey Anthony levels. Sadly, in Seattle she's probably closer to famous than she is to infamous.

The rushed cohabitation can't be playing well with all of the FOAKers (especially the religious wing) either. At a minimum it lays waste all of the courtroom and PR BS about "lovebirds" and/or her longing for the "loving arms" of her true love, DJ.

I could be wrong but I think we're looking at the actions of a disturbed young woman that not only has inappropriate and/or dark impulses but a real problem resisting them/ seeing a reason to resist them.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Manipulation in the name of a murdered girl
by Drdavidanderson November 04, 2011

GROUND REPORT

You've got people there who think Amanda didn't go to Meredith's memorial service because she was being torture at the police station at that time. (Actually, she stayed away, then went to buy undies with Rafffaele that evening)



No, the trip for undies and hot sex was the day after Meredith's body was found (3rd Nov). Meredith's candle light vigil wasn't until the 5th Nov, but instead of going to the vigil Raffaele and Amanda went out to have pizza where they were seen by a policeman. One gets the impression that they'd been let off being questioned that evening because the police had assumed or been informed that they were going to the vigil. When the policeman reported back that they were instead out eating pizza, that's when Raffaele was called in to the station, but didn't bother arriving until 10:15.


"On November 3rd....5 PM, Meredith's friends began gathering in Piazza IV Novembre on the steps of the duomo for a memorial. A giant color poster of her smiling face had been erected, and red votive candles glowed on the church steps, lighting the late afternoon sky. Amanda and Raffaele did not go to the vigil. Instead, they waited until it was over before visiting a boutique near the duomo to buy underwear for Amanda...instead of somberly going in to buy the items she needed, she is shown on closed-circuit TV footage kissing Raffaele and laughing with him as they hold up various G-strings.." pg 60-61, Angel Face, Barbie Nadeau

It was the November 3 memorial I was referring to, in respect to her behaviour.

She has never, to my knowledge, said the name "Meredith" out loud except once in court. She has never really expressed regret or loss.
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Sorry, double post deleted


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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Such a cute pic, Stint.

I think Amanda is in for a very rude awakening. Thus far, she has used people. Now, she's going to be used. And, she doesn't have a discerning brain in her head to see it. She has always been foolhardy...and It doesn't seem as though that has changed at all.

Moreover, she's not going to be able to get away with things.....as she has in the past. She's under the microscope, and, whether her parents want to admit it...or see it.....they must be watching her very closely. There won't be any free passes.

At the very best...she's a convicted liar, a person of shocking character. Insensitive, callous, and basically very unlikeable.

The new beau looks very uncomfortable in his skin. Quite dorky.....note his hanging head, and his hands.

Her choice leaves many of the wannabe white knights still hopeful :)

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Amanda Knox Stays in the Spotlight
Ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito is speaking out about their past relationship.
02:07 | 11/06/2011

ABC NEWS

(VIDEO)


Raffaele Sollecito is still hurting over Amanda Knox. He has been discarded, by her and the media. He even said in his latest courtroom appearance that nobody cared about him and everything was about Amanda Knox. Once out of prison, he gave the interview saying he wouldn't wait until Christmas to visit her in the US and that they "needed" each other and had remained in contact with each other. This seems to have been refuted by the Mellox PR campaign immediately in a very interesting way. Instead calling Raffaele Sollecito a liar, they accused the reporter who printed the interview of lying. Suddenly Amanda Knox comes out with a new boyfriend. Only three weeks ago, Curt Knox said that it was too early to talk about romance and guess what happens only three weeks later? Amanda Knox not only finds herself yet another boyfriend, no, she's even moving in with him.

Raffaele Sollecito's latest interview is mainly to save face and make some money. In my opinion he wanted to join Amanda Knox in the US to make some money with interviews, but it was made clear to him that he wasn't part of the plan. With the appearance of the new guitarist boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito has no business anymore to come for an interview to the US. Neither does he want to, because he still seems to be emotionally attached to that woman.

Raffaele Sollecito seems to be an immature creep.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Manipulation in the name of a murdered girl
by Drdavidanderson November 04, 2011

GROUND REPORT

You've got people there who think Amanda didn't go to Meredith's memorial service because she was being torture at the police station at that time. (Actually, she stayed away, then went to buy undies with Rafffaele that evening)



No, the trip for undies and hot sex was the day after Meredith's body was found (3rd Nov). Meredith's candle light vigil wasn't until the 5th Nov, but instead of going to the vigil Raffaele and Amanda went out to have pizza where they were seen by a policeman. One gets the impression that they'd been let off being questioned that evening because the police had assumed or been informed that they were going to the vigil. When the policeman reported back that they were instead out eating pizza, that's when Raffaele was called in to the station, but didn't bother arriving until 10:15.


"On November 3rd....5 PM, Meredith's friends began gathering in Piazza IV Novembre on the steps of the duomo for a memorial. A giant color poster of her smiling face had been erected, and red votive candles glowed on the church steps, lighting the late afternoon sky. Amanda and Raffaele did not go to the vigil. Instead, they waited until it was over before visiting a boutique near the duomo to buy underwear for Amanda...instead of somberly going in to buy the items she needed, she is shown on closed-circuit TV footage kissing Raffaele and laughing with him as they hold up various G-strings.." pg 60-61, Angel Face, Barbie Nadeau

It was the November 3 memorial I was referring to, in respect to her behaviour.

She has never, to my knowledge, said the name "Meredith" out loud except once in court. She has never really expressed regret or loss.



There was no memorial in Perugia on the 3rd, only on the 5th. Barbie has her dates wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Manipulation in the name of a murdered girl
by Drdavidanderson November 04, 2011

GROUND REPORT

You've got people there who think Amanda didn't go to Meredith's memorial service because she was being torture at the police station at that time. (Actually, she stayed away, then went to buy undies with Rafffaele that evening)



No, the trip for undies and hot sex was the day after Meredith's body was found (3rd Nov). Meredith's candle light vigil wasn't until the 5th Nov, but instead of going to the vigil Raffaele and Amanda went out to have pizza where they were seen by a policeman. One gets the impression that they'd been let off being questioned that evening because the police had assumed or been informed that they were going to the vigil. When the policeman reported back that they were instead out eating pizza, that's when Raffaele was called in to the station, but didn't bother arriving until 10:15.


"On November 3rd....5 PM, Meredith's friends began gathering in Piazza IV Novembre on the steps of the duomo for a memorial. A giant color poster of her smiling face had been erected, and red votive candles glowed on the church steps, lighting the late afternoon sky. Amanda and Raffaele did not go to the vigil. Instead, they waited until it was over before visiting a boutique near the duomo to buy underwear for Amanda...instead of somberly going in to buy the items she needed, she is shown on closed-circuit TV footage kissing Raffaele and laughing with him as they hold up various G-strings.." pg 60-61, Angel Face, Barbie Nadeau

It was the November 3 memorial I was referring to, in respect to her behaviour.

She has never, to my knowledge, said the name "Meredith" out loud except once in court. She has never really expressed regret or loss.

_____________________

Ergon,

Barbie's memorial is purely ficticious. There was no memorial, or vigil , on November 3 at the Cathedral, with a poster of Meredith and votive candles. That happened two days later. And, therefore, Barbie's secretive lovebirds didn't "wait" until some imaginary vigil "was over" to go shopping near the Cathedral for underwear.


///


Last edited by fine on Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I don't know how Barbie managed to get that wrong actually. All I can think of is that she got confused with another vigil that was held by students at Leeds University in the UK http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... _1_2120579

Only, the Leeds vigil was held on the 6th Nov, so I've no idea where Barbie plucked the date of the 3rd from.

Perugia vigil - 5th Nov
Leeds University vigil - 6th Nov

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Foxy Knoxy falls for a guitar man as she returns to 'normal' life

By Caroline Graham

Last updated at 2:17 AM on 6th November 2011

MAIL ON SUNDAY



The article has been updated, there are new pics now of Amanda and her musician lover (so bohème, isn't it? I can just see her writing, while he's practicing...:)), and one picture of Edda, all happy and proud.
I don't live in the US, but do wonder if Seattle's University is the place to go for studying classical music. From what I know, the good and famous music conservatories/schools are someplace else.
So, emphasizing that the new BF is a classical music student with a nuclear physicist brother from a middle-class NY family might be a Marriott thing. Maybe that's what he means by "dignity and class". DJ, iirc, is working as a truck driver now, quite the difference.
Anyway, the PTSD phase definitely seems to be over for Amanda. And that beige hat is so ugly.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

fine wrote:
Ergon,

Barbie's memorial is purely ficticious. There was no memorial, or vigil , on November 3 at the Cathedral, with a poster of Meredith and votive candles. That happened two days later. And, therefore, Barbie's secretive lovebirds didn't "wait" until some imaginary vigil "was over" to go shopping near the Cathedral for underwear.


///


Fair enough. I got the dates wrong. Did she attend the November 5 memorial?
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

http://www.gqitalia.it/viral-news/artic ... manda-knox

The mother and sister of Meredith Kercher: "We will not appeal against Amanda and Raffaele" (google translation)

November 7, 2011 - GA

Five respondents to Sunday, the two women explained: "The appeal of the prosecutor will do. We proceed by going to see the reasons for ruling against Rudy Guede. He says he has killed the competition with two other people, but if it were the two people met, then who were they? "

For the first time after the trial that acquitted Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, speak the mother and sister of Meredith Kercher Sunday at Five. "The end of Meredith was particularly violent, but his memory during this process seemed to be lost, the world has forgotten about her. "

And Arlene and Stephanie Kercher, Meredith's mother and sister, the question of whether an appeal in state Supreme Court: "We will not directly appeal against the sentence, the prosecutor will make their appeal against the two acquitted. We proceed by going to see the reasons the ruling against Rudy Guede. He says he has killed the competition with two other people, but if the two people were not met, then who were they? Many people think that our appeal is against the two acquitted, but we always said, we do not want them to go the wrong people in jail, we just want to understand what happened that night. "

Their tireless quest to discover the truth: "We remember Meredith every day and thank your program that honors his memory still. My daughter - Arlene says - died without a reason, and after 4 years is hard to start from scratch, go back to ask who it was, with the possibility that perhaps we will never reach a solution. But we go ahead anyway because we want justice, but justice is not there to bring you back. "

And Meredith lay on the assumption that being killed by one person, the mother assumes: "I do not think that Meredith may have been killed by one person. The judges said the ruling against Rudy Guede, there is much evidence that they say : if it were a single person there would have been more signs of struggle and instead there are. My daughter was strong, did karate, gymnastics. It would be defense. "

As for confidence in the justice, Arlene says, "We must believe, otherwise the logic goes dell'ognuno itself. We are waiting for new evidence and tell us what really happened." He adds: "We are the only ones to be sentenced to life imprisonment because they always feel his absence, with which we learn to live with. The last thing we said is that we loved."

And on Amanda disguise for Halloween night: "I do not think anything about his disguise. We do our life and it is right that she does hers. No problem, he disguised himself as Meredith and partying." But the question "what do you think Amanda and Raffaele?" the answer is dry: "I do not know what to think about them, the judges acquitted them and we must accept this verdict."
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
fine wrote:
Ergon,

Barbie's memorial is purely ficticious. There was no memorial, or vigil , on November 3 at the Cathedral, with a poster of Meredith and votive candles. That happened two days later. And, therefore, Barbie's secretive lovebirds didn't "wait" until some imaginary vigil "was over" to go shopping near the Cathedral for underwear.


///


Fair enough. I got the dates wrong. Did she attend the November 5 memorial?


Nope. She was killing for a pizza.

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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

popper wrote:
I give you a few of my impressions.

1) Lots of not very meaningful questions. Lots of stupid answers.


Some "interviewer needs to hit him with why he a false alibi from the start - (to Kate Mansey, Daily Mirror)
then gave a few more alibis.

He needs to be asked why his lawyer stated for him in the supreme court that Knox was not with him that night.
He needs to be asked why he gave the rubbish story that the "accidentally injured" Meredith Kercher with his own
32 cm kitchen knife (the double DNA knife) thus confirming it as the murder weapon.
He needs to be asked why when he heard the news Guede had been picked up he was "worried what the ivorian
may say" when his lawyer stated for him in court that he'd never ever laid eyes on Guede.

He won't be put in front of such an interviewer.

popper wrote:
3) Very poor Italian grammar from Raffaele ... [who gave him a University degree? He speaks like a real ignorant ... mistakes on conditionals, congiuntivo ... a disaster ... a shallow person, this is my impression ... sorry, this guy has sawdust in his head ... Now I understand why he hooked up with Amanda]


Raffie can have pretentious "flowery" speech in his own stupid way (re: his blog and his "prison diary") but it's probably been dulled by the 4 years in prison (and sedation).

popper wrote:
4) Raffaele said he was always transparent ... he said he was always truthful [YEAH, never testified !!]. Sottile does not even reply with a question.


Not an interview - may as well have issued a press release.

popper wrote:
Popper wrote 8) Long pre-recorded video to remember Meredith.


Did Sollecito watch it? He wouldn't look at the pictures of Meredith Kercher in court. This is as low as media gets .. Raffie should just "disappear". He is punishing Meredith Kerchers family.

popper wrote:
9) Sottile said again he is about to ask about that night but does not really, not the particulars. RS says "one cannot remember all particulars", he remembers he was with Amanda, tenderness ... and he was full of joy ... that night was similar to other nights. Sottile gives up immediately. RS speaks using imagery ("it was a seed planted ...") again speaks of all but facts.


But WHY? Sottile should have asked -- after weeks in prison -- THROUGH YOUR LAWYER ... did you state in the supreme court that Knox was not with you during the hours of the murder.

guermantes wrote:
10) Story with AK is over, "intrinsic affection" [in Italian it does not mean anything], his sentiments suffocated by injustice. True they invited him in the US ... RS does not wish people to mix case with personal matters.


Pathetic Raffie has seen pictures of Knox with her new Beau. Spurned! - it is over - but Knoxo when initially interviewed by the police was saying Raffie was "a friend" ... not a boyfriend. The whole "lovebirds" scenario was a myth -- remember Knox was running around all over town "boys in the club" (re: Lumumba) the "argentinian" (when Knox may have passed some evidence who Soll. confirmed in his diary that he definitely knew who it was (re: "her mixing with 'such types'"). The bloodied shoes (in the laundrette) - and again by confirming he knows who the "argentinian" is (jealousy) he confirms she met him, was away from him (more destroyed alibi). In prison because of the murder, he had no perspective then -- he has no perspective even now -- what a ghoulish scenario it would have made Sollecito flying to Seattle to hook up with Knox. He needs a kick in the head. Raffie probably disgusts even Knox now.

guermantes wrote:
11) When second host [this Sabina lady] speaks about reconstruction of first degree sentence .... possible sexual motive ... Raffaele does not feel any wish to comment. Sottile immediately helps Raffaele switching to drugs and asks him if he ever smoked. Easy answer. The kissing and hugging post murder is explained as comfort kissing and tenderness, not passion.


Sollecito staged the body.

It was half "kissing and cuddling" it was half hanging onto each other in real terror of being discovered. Police (and then press) all over the place their drug trip over. Absolute terror and paranoia - clinging to each other.


popper wrote:
Popper wrote
12) What did you learn in jail? "black mirror of real society" then RS elaborates only on his "images of mind" and comparisons, never on real facts [only a few facts on his first 6 months of isolation] ... anyway now he goes on to facts ...he was protected in jail from others ... some told him "god will punish you" ... "think of poor Meredith". As years went by, insults went down. At the end some were his friends.

Other lowlives who wanted something out of him. Raffie is despised in Italy.

popper wrote:
13) They briefly touch on Guede who said they were there. Video of what RG said in court against AK... they do not show what he said against RS. RS says his lawyers are sure RG was the only killler, RS says he does not care.


Where's the outrage! Wrongly imprisoned for 4 years. Clear my name! When Frank Sfarzo was at an early time making accusations
against Lumumba - the disgusting racist little shithead Frank remember how Lumumba blew up at him? Banging fist on table - NO!

But Raffie "doesn't care"

popper wrote:
14) Brief superficial discussion on why they were convicted in first degree ... Sabina [one of the hosts] says RS was basically convicted only for bra clasp so ... in appeal .. etc. etc. Sottile asked: "Have you ever touched that bra clasp?" RS evades from answer [does not say no] "this evidence makes no sense, I was in that house ... this evidence is very controversial" and Sottile leaves at that.


He doesn't say no but says "I was in that house" ... what is he insinuating? Raffie has licence to display his evil now. Partly an admission he was involved in "something" (but smearing the victim?). "evidence is very controversial" - how bland. There's a TON OF IT.

WHAT ABOUT HIS FOOTPRINT ...... confirmed --- set in blood on the bathmat.

popper wrote:
popper "what happened to your daughter is incredible

He'll never be able to come to terms with it. "incredible" why use that word. But then again - what was the word in italian.



This has reminded me that Sollecito will still be afraid of "what the ivorian may say".


Last edited by ttrroonniicc on Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:29 am, edited 10 times in total.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ava wrote:
http://www.gqitalia.it/viral-news/articles/2011/11/meredith-kercher-mamma-e-sorella-no-appello-contro-sentenza-raffaele-sollecito-amanda-knox

As for confidence in the justice, Arlene says, "We must believe, otherwise the logic goes dell'ognuno itself. We are waiting for new evidence and tell us what really happened." He adds: "We are the only ones to be sentenced to life imprisonment because they always feel his absence, with which we learn to live with. The last thing we said is that we loved."

I wonder what new evidence they are waiting for? To focus more on Rudy might be interesting. Since the other 2 are gone then it will be Rudy that might be able to tell more. He always was the one who told most about that night anyway. How they want to accomplish this, and if Rudy can still somehow be pressured to talk at this stage, I don't know. He had plenty of chances to tell all, but he chose not to. Will wait and see, and keep scrolling by all the tabloid stuff of new lovers or whatever. Weird ;)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Hi, does anyone have an update on the PM Mignini appeal of his wiretapping conviction? Some on Dot Org was quoting him as saying the motivation report on his trial hadn't been released yet?
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Troon, you make excellent observations. Everything that comes out of their mouths, sounds guilty.

You're right. Incredible? To describing Mez's death?

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

This is what I believe.

Amanda's dream is to be a Rock Star. I think she wanted Mez to give her some intro's, as Mez had been in the Rock Video

Amanda's constant guitar *playing*. The bursting into song in public. Now, the hooking up with a musician.

Amanda wants to have complete control, as well. Writing the songs, playing the guitar and singing. THIS IS HER DREAM. And, I believe she was very put out, with Mez distancing herself, and probably Meredith not going to introduce her to her musician friends.

Is Amanda being realistic? The attention she received, from the group, HOT, in prison, may have something to do with it.

But, no question, this is where she wants to go, and , in her narcisstic way, is linking up with anyone she thinks may give her a headstart.

Stay *tuned*...:)

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Internet hatred - the new pastime of the mob
by Nigel Scott November 08, 2011

GROUND REPORT

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Max, There is no way Rudi will talk. He wants to do his time, and hope to put this behind him. The worst thing, in Italy, is to be labelled a snitch. By talking, his time in prison will be much worse for him. I'm pretty sure he has had it spelled out for him.

It's possible, that he could also be deported. I don't know his legal status, but he was born in Cote D'Ivoire.

Rightly or wrongly, he may be very concerned as to how this played out. Jackie and Stint will know what I mean.

I think Rudi feels, that it's in his best interests to keep very, very quiet.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Internet hatred - the new pastime of the mob
by Nigel Scott November 08, 2011

GROUND REPORT


The word "hatred" is the new flavour I guess, butressed by books of psychobabble. What next, will we be accused of anti-amandaism?
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Max, There is no way Rudi will talk. He wants to do his time, and hope to put this behind him. The worst thing, in Italy, is to be labelled a snitch. By talking, his time in prison will be much worse for him. I'm pretty sure he has had it spelled out for him.

It's possible, that he could also be deported. I don't know his legal status, but he was born in Cote D'Ivoire.

Rightly or wrongly, he may be very concerned as to how this played out. Jackie and Stint will know what I mean.

I think Rudi feels, that it's in his best interests to keep very, very quiet.

I can't imagine either. I just don't really understand what the above article meant by 'waiting for new evidence' and 'going to see the reasons the ruling against Rudy Guede'. What is there to see? Those rulings were months ago. So for now I don't expect to hear anything new. In time, we could see another youtube video of a drunk AK telling it all, or gossips from ex-boyfriends.

On the other hand, there have been criminals keeping quiet about their crimes for the rest of their lives, and return to leading a normal life. I just saw a program about Gerald F. Mason, who one night robbed 4 teenagers, raped one of them, ran a red traffic light, and killed both policemen who stopped him. He then returned to have a normal life for 45 years until he got caught. Nobody around him ever suspected anything. Not sure if AK's character allows for such a 'normal' life ;)
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Max, There is no way Rudi will talk. He wants to do his time, and hope to put this behind him. The worst thing, in Italy, is to be labelled a snitch. By talking, his time in prison will be much worse for him. I'm pretty sure he has had it spelled out for him.

It's possible, that he could also be deported. I don't know his legal status, but he was born in Cote D'Ivoire.

Rightly or wrongly, he may be very concerned as to how this played out. Jackie and Stint will know what I mean.

I think Rudi feels, that it's in his best interests to keep very, very quiet.

Hi Capealadin

Problem is AK is out of Italy now - even if Rudy tells all she won't ever return. Luciano Aviello and associated "mafioso" were recruited by Papa Sollecito ... Rudi wasn't going to say anything in prison even though Sollecito wasn't in the same prison.

Rudy was beaten during an exercise period by two other inmates. That was planned. He was beaten up fairly seriously it seems, as his attackers ended up in court. One source states he's been beaten up more than once. He complained, but didn't take it any further. He's living in fear.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/alleged-amanda-knox-accomplice-rudy-guede-back-court/story?id=8936255#.TrnYJkAkXRE

Guede's two aggressors were due to go on trial Viterbo on Tuesday but at the start of the hearing, Rudy Guede formally withdrew his accusation declaring that this was because the two inmates had told him they were sorry and had asked for forgiveness.

Guede, 22, who is from the Ivory Coast, had reportedly been punched and kicked during his daily open-air break in Viterbo prison in March. According to Guede's defense lawyers, Guede's only reaction to the assault was to make a formal complaint.

Guede's lawyer cited his decision to withdraw accusations as proof of his "non-violent nature," according to Italy's ANSA news agency.

Why was Guede beaten up?
When ... September or October 2009. Just before his appeal.

Rudy Guede Appeal: Meredith Family’s Lawyer Very Disappointed At “Lost Last Chance”

His recent mysterious and unprovoked beating-up in his prison may have had an influence on his frame of mind in court today. Amazing though, as the defense teams incessantly paint him as the lone wolf perpetrator (a theory Judge Micheli discounted at great length) which we know burns him up.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C195/

He needs to talk. He wants a re-trial. This will run and run. Guedes biggest chance is to get witnesses to speak for him. People who can confirm that Sollecito had encountered him. "Jube" (the "flamenco guitarist") another north african is one who comes to mind - "Jube" was always around the house - both Knox and Meredith Kercher knew who he was. Knox had considered framing "Jube" but framed Lumumba instead. Must be plenty of witnesses - a party that night even - the evidence hadn't only been cleaned up by Knox/Sollecito; the morning after the house was spick and span. The house had been cleaned. (after the party described in Knox's "Marie Pace" letter - "a mountain of beer" "a guy passed out in the corner") ... a party - witnesses. One unidentified source DNA confirmed - cigarette butt in kitchen table ashtray. Next to RS cigarette butt. Who was that. I must completely analyse the Massei report.

"They'll never believe you you black!" (what Guede reported crazily attired Sollecito telling him after he had fought Sollecito who was armed with a knife (Koblenz (where Guede was picked up) police photographed wounds on Guedes mid-fingers - knife defensive wounds). Knox/Sollecito thought they'd never believe Lumumba either.


Last edited by ttrroonniicc on Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:38 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Max, There is no way Rudi will talk. He wants to do his time, and hope to put this behind him. The worst thing, in Italy, is to be labelled a snitch. By talking, his time in prison will be much worse for him. I'm pretty sure he has had it spelled out for him.

It's possible, that he could also be deported. I don't know his legal status, but he was born in Cote D'Ivoire.

Rightly or wrongly, he may be very concerned as to how this played out. Jackie and Stint will know what I mean.

I think Rudi feels, that it's in his best interests to keep very, very quiet.


I agree with you, at least as long as he stays in prison. But I believe there is a possibility that things might change, once he is released. It also depends if Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito will be found guilty or innocent of the murder of Meredith Kercher. If the Supreme Court doesn't agree with judge Hellmann, this problem might resolve itself and things are put back into place. In this case Rudy Guede wouldn't have any reason to forward details of the night of the murder.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Well, Troon, there may have been a number of reasons why Rudi was beaten up in prison. It's upsetting to even write this, but....one reason may simply be because he's black.

I wondered if Rudi would write a book, when released. But, I don't know what the law is about that in Italy. There won't be any new trial for Rudi. I don't think there is anything to his advantage, in spilling the beans. In fact, he has much more to lose. I think he's even more scared, seeing how the appeal trial went. As his guilt has been affirmed, and if therefore, he can't make money from telling his story, he will want to fade into the woodwork.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

And, no new evidence can be brought in. So, no new trial for Rudi. Even if he COULD bring in eyewitnesses, etc, it wouldn't make the evidence against him go away.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
And, no new evidence can be brought in. So, no new trial for Rudi. Even if he COULD bring in eyewitnesses, etc, it wouldn't make the evidence against him go away.

Rudy's lawyers said they wanted a retrial based on the Hellmann ruling and DNA report I suppose. Would there be a retrial for him then there is an opportunity to bring in new evidence. He might even have a chance of a sentence reduction (or worse, an acquittal) if for example Hellmann states that the investigation team messed up and none of the evidence is reliable.

Also, the defense for AK and RS suggested to prosecute Rudy for slander. I don't think they will, but this might be the way to make Rudy talk. On the other hand, Rudy might remain silent and/or even lose the case.
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:52 pm   Post subject:    

RoseMontague deserves a round of applause.

On JREF, she expressed the opinion that PMF/TJMK were not really "hate" sites.
She courageously opined that JREF posters were wrong to keep ranting away with the constant drumroll of posts that do little other than bash PMF/TJMK, their Administrators and anyone who posts there as haters.

Needless to say, that was not a popular opinion to post on JREF Continuation.
Rose was immediately attacked by those who rant and bash PMF the most.
Brucie in the lead makes innumerable attempts to show PMF deserves it.
As is his custom, and as to be expected, he even S-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-s his "facts" so far as to say PMF is just like the sodomizer from Penn State.
eek-) nw)
InhumanityBlueballs immediately also tags on as usual, stupidly defending his own usual one line hate filled slime and his idol Brucie's as fully justified.
L J, I guess is still... errr.... baking strudel.....
But I am sure he will make an few biblical length attempts to defend his own obnoxiousness soon

A well deserved "Thanks again", to RoseM.

BTW:
Brucie recently said that he communicated with a (singular) poster from PMF.
Now, yet another questionable s-t-r-e-t-c-h by a guy who rarely misses an opportunity for exaggerations; he says this today:
I talk to a couple people from that site.
Sure you do brucie.

You finally admitted that Frank Sfarzo did in fact say you were "confused".
"Confused" indeed.
How easy on you and how charitable toward your rants Frank was with that mild rebuke.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:33 pm   Post subject: Re:   

stint7 wrote:
RoseMontague deserves a round of applause.

On JREF, she expressed the opinion that PMF/TJMK were not really "hate" sites.
She courageously opined that JREF posters were wrong to keep ranting away with the constant drumroll of posts that do little other than bash PMF/TJMK, their Administrators and anyone who posts there as haters


I agree. I appreciate her courtesy and invariable politeness. I also applaud her suggestion to pool the translations of the appeal documents, unfortunately shot down by IIP. For the record, I did not support the calls for pro forma banning of anyone that expresses honest disagreement with our views here. I also deplore incivility on both sides, that do nothing to further the search for answers and understanding. It is not "us vs them".
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Offline donnie

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:25 pm   Post subject: Re:   

stint7 wrote:
Brucie recently said that he communicated with a (singular) poster from PMF.
Now, yet another questionable s-t-r-e-t-c-h by a guy who rarely misses an opportunity for exaggerations; he says this today:
I talk to a couple people from that site.
Sure you do brucie.


He, actually, is staying in touch with some members both here and on Perugiamurderfile.org.
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Is brucie exaggerating, yet again his latest bash PMF post ??

Now in a long winded whining off topic 'explanation' about why he is justified in being such a repetitive repulsive obnoxious attack dog, and why people should not "misinterpret his constant bashing of PMF and their Administrators, he adds this accusation against PMF:

"There has been an active campaign to hurt people at PMF. This is a fact. I am sorry but I cannot reason with people that actively try to hurt innocent people.

For example: when a female journalist travels overseas by herself and you post photos of her and give the location where she is staying, knowing that she is traveling alone, suggesting that she be harassed, then you are actively trying to hurt that person. There is no room for debate here. There are many other examples. This is just one."


Pretty serious charges, brucie.
Excuse me if based on your past record, I suspect little or no accuracy, and expect no documentation from you to support yet another wildly inflammatory infinitely improbable accusation against PMF

Cross posted PMF.net/.org for comment about accuracy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I do see what you're saying Max. A new trial based on contamination? I'm not so sure about that, though. The blood on Mez's purse was pretty clear cut. He would have to be very clear about what he saw, who did it. I believe, just the fact that he was there, is enough to find him culpable. And, should he come up with a scenario, would he be believed now?

He had many opportunities to come clean. I really think he's left it far too late. I seriously doubt he would be given another bite of the apple. I'm 99.99999% he will not.

Stint, Bruce suffers from transference. He simply mirrors back to who he is. He's the one always spewing hatred and lies. I think any reasonable person can figure it right away.

I haven't read Jref for awhile, Stint....but, if that's what Rose posted, and I have no reason to doubt you, then it was indeed worthy. Especially her knowing that her stance would not be looked kindly upon. A very nice gesture..and I can understand you being so appreciative. I think it's very nice of you to point it out.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Cape wrote:
I do see what you're saying Max. A new trial based on contamination? I'm not so sure about that, though. The blood on Mez's purse was pretty clear cut. He would have to be very clear about what he saw, who did it. I believe, just the fact that he was there, is enough to find him culpable. And, should he come up with a scenario, would he be believed now?


Rudy has always admitted he was there, that he was in Meredith's room both before and after she was attacked and that he interacted with her sexually. Therefore, claims of contamination won't help him, so I can't see his lawyers going that route. What they may attempt, is to argue that the investigation was shoddy and therefore vital exculpatory evidence that would have further supported his version of events may have been overlooked or/and damaged. For example, evidence that may have shown that he struggled with an intruder as he has claimed whilst highlighting the fact that other people, as shown by the evidence and ruled by the High Court, were there.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
I did not support the calls for pro forma banning of anyone that expresses honest disagreement with our views here.


Of course and that's PMF policy. It's not beliefs or opinions that get people banned from PMF, we aren't the Thought Police, it is actions contrary to the rules or/and spirit of the site. The sad fact is, few that hold contrary opinions come here in food faith, but instead come here for confrontation or to disrupt or hijack the board.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Happy Birthday to DanielSC!!! drin-) band-) bu-) cl-) tt-) b-((

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Happy Bithday, DanielSC. band-) .........11-11-11 is rare.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Ergon wrote:
I did not support the calls for pro forma banning of anyone that expresses honest disagreement with our views here.


Of course and that's PMF policy. It's not beliefs or opinions that get people banned from PMF, we aren't the Thought Police, it is actions contrary to the rules or/and spirit of the site. The sad fact is, few that hold contrary opinions come here in food faith, but instead come here for confrontation or to disrupt or hijack the board.


I think your words HONEST DISAGREEMENT are key. With the emphasis on HONEST.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

max wrote:
...
Rudy's lawyers said they wanted a retrial based on the Hellmann ruling and DNA report I suppose. Would there be a retrial for him then there is an opportunity to bring in new evidence. He might even have a chance of a sentence reduction (or worse, an acquittal) if for example Hellmann states that the investigation team messed up and none of the evidence is reliable.

Also, the defense for AK and RS suggested to prosecute Rudy for slander. I don't think they will, but this might be the way to make Rudy talk. On the other hand, Rudy might remain silent and/or even lose the case.


It would be interesting to know whether, notwithstanding the doctrine of Finality of Judgment that Cape is alluding to, inmates in Italy have any post-conviction remedies akin to habeas petitions or the Innocence Protection Act (post-conviction DNA testing if certain, rather demanding, criteria are met).



PS When is the calunnia trial set to proceed?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Extradition for a calunnia conviction while unlikely has, IMHO, some interesting wrinkles.

For example, the ‘dual criminality’ requirement set out in Article II of the Extradition Treaty would appear to block extradition in its tracks on the ground that there are no federal laws criminalizing defamation. However, according to one well-regarded commentator (Jonathan O. Hafen), “[t]he current state of the law appears to be that if the offense is considered criminal under the federal law, the law of the asylum State, OR under the law of the preponderance of States, the dual criminality requirement is satisfied.”

Washington, the ‘asylum State’, if you will, actually had a criminal defamation law on the books when Knox is alleged to have defamed the police.

The State has since repealed the statute - effective July 26, 2009 (after the Wash. Court of Appeals held that it was unconstitutional in 2008) - but it WAS on the books at the relevant time.

Consider also that there are a surprising number of States that continue to criminalize defamation – about 16.

If Hafen is on the right track, the relevant test is a “PREPONDERANCE” of States and 1 in 3 States, while far from insignificant, just isn’t going to cut it. I’m waaaay too lazy to hit Westlaw or LexisNexis for weeks on end to suss out the basis for Hafen’s contention re the emergence of a ‘preponderance standard’, but there may be at least a little wiggle room there.

Article II also requires that the crime be punishable by “deprivation of liberty for a period of MORE than one year” – another potential road block in that Washington’s code classed the crime as a “gross misdemeanor” (punishable by “NOT MORE than one year” &/or a 5K fine).

However, the laws in other States can be less forgiving – Colorado, for example, classifies the crime as a “Class 6 Felony” punishable by up to 18 months.

If Hafen is mistaken about the emergence of a ‘preponderance of States standard’, and laws like those on the books in The Avalanche State were to inform the process …

Of course, the political will of the parties to wade into this quagmire – over little more than a sideshow to the serious crime at the center of this Marriott-crafted circus - can’t be very strong. I get the sense that the powers that be just want to wash their hands of the whole mess. The PR campaign has been very effective.

Alas, here's hoping Knox moves to Colorado ;-)


Last edited by Jackie on Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jackie wrote:
It would be interesting to know whether, notwithstanding the doctrine of Finality of Judgment that Cape is alluding to, inmates in Italy have any post-conviction remedies akin to habeas petitions or the Innocence Protection Act (post-conviction DNA testing if certain, rather demanding, criteria are met).

PS When is the calunnia trial set to proceed?


Latest scheduled Hearing dates I saw:

2011
15nov Amanda in Perugia (on hold ?)
22nov Prosecutor Mignini in Florence
2012
24jan Curt and Edda in Perugia
28mar Sollecito Family in Bari
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Crowds in Rome still (11:08 PM) celebrating Berlusconi's resignation. Live video at http://videochat.corriere.it/index_H2401.shtml#

They're shouting "adioso!"

All the best to the people of Italy.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Thanks, Jackie. Very informative. I will say, that in any which way....blaming an innocent man, accusing police, leaves a stigma. Especially, blaming Patrick. That will always have people looking askance.

Yes, they are so done with the whole mess. However, Mignini doesn't seem to want to throw the towel in. He's absolutely convinced of guilt. A lot will depend on just what Hellman does with his report. Any weaknesses, Mignini will be over it like white on rice. Amanda may not be extradited, if found guilty........but, it will be on the books, come up when overseas. The report will be interesting. I think Hellman's going to come across as very weak, and weasly.

It won't be as long as Massei, but, I think Hellman will come off as not up to the job.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jackie wrote:
For example, the ‘dual criminality’ requirement set out in Article II of the Extradition Treaty would appear to block extradition in its tracks on the ground that there are no federal laws criminalizing defamation.


Only, we aren't talking about 'defamation', that's only the media's poorly translated term for it. Defamation in Italy is 'defemazione', only Knox was never charged or convicted of defamazione, she was charged and convicted (and stands charged of another) of a different charge entirely...'calunnia'. There is no direct equivalent of calunnia in common law, but broken down common law shares many of the elements the offence embodies. For example, 'making false accusations', 'perjury', 'perverting the course of justice', 'obstruction', 'wasting police time' and 'defamation'. Calunnia is essentially all these offences in one. Defamazione is considered a crime against the person, whereas calunnia is regarded as a crime against the state. Trying to look for comparison in US law solely under the narrow bracket of 'defamation' is the wrong way to go, especially when Italy has a direct equivalent of defamation (defamazione) and thats not what Knox is facing.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Happy Birthday to Lisareik!!! hugz-) mul-) band-) tt-)

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Happy (belated) Birthday, DanielSC, and Lisareik! :) :)


Last edited by Ava on Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

If Berlusconi had resigned weeks earlier I think Knox/Biff would still be in jail.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Jackie wrote:
For example, the ‘dual criminality’ requirement set out in Article II of the Extradition Treaty would appear to block extradition in its tracks on the ground that there are no federal laws criminalizing defamation.


Only, we aren't talking about 'defamation', that's only the media's poorly translated term for it. Defamation in Italy is 'defemazione', only Knox was never charged or convicted of defamazione, she was charged and convicted (and stands charged of another) of a different charge entirely...'calunnia'. There is no direct equivalent of calunnia in common law, but broken down common law shares many of the elements the offence embodies. For example, 'making false accusations', 'perjury', 'perverting the course of justice', 'obstruction', 'wasting police time' and 'defamation'. Calunnia is essentially all these offences in one. Defamazione is considered a crime against the person, whereas calunnia is regarded as a crime against the state. Trying to look for comparison in US law solely under the narrow bracket of 'defamation' is the wrong way to go, especially when Italy has a direct equivalent of defamation (defamazione) and thats not what Knox is facing.


Now that IS an interesting argument, Michael! I'm going to have to think on that! Conceptualizing something along the lines of "constructive" calunnia based on elements of the common law and US statutes in order to satisfy the provisions of the Treaty...Mmmmmmmmm...the very idea of it would make me sweat if I were Knox but I'd have to do a lot of reading to be certain and, right now, I'd rather go for a run. Has anyone posted on this subject before? (I love short cuts.)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

stint7 wrote:
Jackie wrote:
It would be interesting to know whether, notwithstanding the doctrine of Finality of Judgment that Cape is alluding to, inmates in Italy have any post-conviction remedies akin to habeas petitions or the Innocence Protection Act (post-conviction DNA testing if certain, rather demanding, criteria are met).

PS When is the calunnia trial set to proceed?


Latest scheduled Hearing dates I saw:

2011
15nov Amanda in Perugia (on hold ?)
22nov Prosecutor Mignini in Florence
2012
24jan Curt and Edda in Perugia
28mar Sollecito Family in Bari


Thanks, Stint! (I'm sorry to keep hassling you for this info.) It will be interesting to see how this charge is handled. I'm looking for signs that the prosecution hasn't lost its courage and that the judiciary hasn't been corrupted.
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jackie wrote:
stint7 wrote:
Jackie wrote:
It would be interesting to know whether, notwithstanding the doctrine of Finality of Judgment that Cape is alluding to, inmates in Italy have any post-conviction remedies akin to habeas petitions or the Innocence Protection Act (post-conviction DNA testing if certain, rather demanding, criteria are met).

PS When is the calunnia trial set to proceed?


Latest scheduled Hearing dates I saw:

2011
15nov Amanda in Perugia (on hold ?)
22nov Prosecutor Mignini in Florence
2012
24jan Curt and Edda in Perugia
28mar Sollecito Family in Bari


Thanks, Stint! (I'm sorry to keep hassling you for this info.) It will be interesting to see how this charge is handled. I'm looking for signs that the prosecution hasn't lost its courage and that the judiciary hasn't been corrupted.


No hassle at all; glad to help. You always make excellent use of information to help us all.
I am not sure how 'up to date'/accurate my schedule is.
If anything was changed/re scheduled with little or no publicity, I prolly missed it
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Looks like we have entered another news-less period. To fill in the gap, I'm posting the links to the Matrix and Domenica Cinque TV programs, which are available to watch @video.mediaset.it. Many of you have probably already watched them but there may be some who haven't, so here we go again:

(1) MATRIX -- MATRIX

The segment about Meredith (Senza Meredith - [4 Years] Without Meredith) lasts 55 min. The program originally aired on Nov 2nd.

Popper's summary:

Matrix (talk show) on Canale 5 has just started a program regarding the Perugia murder entitled "[4 years] without Meredith". Host Alessio Vinci.

Among [his] guests Maresca (lawyer Meredith), Gentile (lawyer Guede), Castelfranco (CBS), writer Donato Carrisi and Erika Pontini of La Nazione.

After a few words by each guest, and Vinci remembering the "in concorso" detail by Cassazione, a long video remembering Meredith with a moving music incl. her video clip.

Carrisi is expressing strong dislike for Amanda, "calunnia" is morally as bad as homicide. He praises a lot MK's family and father.

Erika Pontini thinks dressing as a cat is lack of taste as 4 years ago she was dressed as a cat ... and AK had said MK was her friend.

Castelfranco seems as usual the only one defending AK, not so much though. She also says AK will have to tell the story to media.

Nobody has sympathy for AK. It is absolutely clear. Castelfranco says AK must be understood too. Carrisi says: How can a person [AK] ask our understanding if she caused the destruction of Patrick?

The words of Stephanie remembering that night when they had the news are reported. When father told them a paper gave him the name ... when they saw the pictures of Meredith on TV ... she talks of the foundation .. they hope justice will prevail.

Lawyer Gentile reminds everyone Rudy spoke various times, he spoke and repeated what he heard and saw. The rest must not be done by Rudy but by judges and prosecutors. Castelfranco tries to mention the Skype conversation, Gentile shuts her up.

Video of Carrisi says it is much easier to be killed by a person known, a friend or a relative.
Discusses stardom of possible killers and asks questions: if AK had been ugly, what would have people and media thought? Discusses also other cases. He observes that in most cases interest goes up a lot during the investigation up to the moment of the beginning of the trial, then goes down immediately [few are interested in the trial] and goes up again only at verdict.

Gentile talks a bit about Rudy's character and family, which was never discussed in 4 years. He says there are members of 4 families in Perugia who never abandoned him; in silence, they assist him and do not go on television.

Maresca discussed media behaviour of the Kercher family. Defines "strategy" not behaviour that of the defendants, especially Amanda Knox, with strong pressure on media.

What does Perugia think today?
Perugia wishes to forget? Castellini the journalist says no, Perugia does not wish to forget ... mayor of Perugia wishes to remember with a scholarship, otherwise victim will be victim twice.

Erika Pontini says she was surprised of all the people protesting the night of the sentence.
Castelfranco remembers lawyers of AK never went on TV in Italy or the US.

Pontini says AK in first degree trial was a "happy" girl ... really surprising ... in appeal she changed strategy and outfits.

Video goes back to the house in via Pergola to meet who lives there now. 4 Bangladesh workers live there. Ask price was 1300 euros, agency had to lower it to 500 to rent it. Nobody wanted it.

END

Posted by Popper: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:37 pm

(2) Domenica Cinque -- Domenica Cinque

This program originally aired on Nov 6th. The segment starts at 01:10:07 and lasts about 25 minutes. It contains an interview with Arline and Stephanie Kercher (see Ava's post of Nov 7, 1:59 pm above). The talk show's host is Claudio Brachino. His guests are Alessandra Mussolini, Rocco Girlanda, Salvo Sottile, Paolo Liguori, Ilaria Cavo, Massimo Picozzi.

If Rocco Girlanda continues in the same vein as in his book about Amanda, he risks making himself a national laughing stock...

Jools' summary:

This is my fast trans of what Rocco the clown says:

Rocco: Amanda is living her life in a normal way, we’re doing populism and alarmism on this occasion, criticizing without knowing the American custom in Hallowing, it is not at all like an Italian one, in the U.S. Hallowing is a festivity like Carnival time for us, so everyone dresses up… I don’t think there’s anyone in a position to say that after 4 years a friend is gone it is not good to do it.
Now I’ll read you a very brief letter…

Host: How long is this letter?

Rocco: It’s very brief, like this I tell you about the real Amanda….

‘Dear Rocco, -it arrived yesterday- thank you for sharing… you all look very beautiful -here she’s referring to a photo of my family that I sent her-. How are you… finally I’m putting some order in my everyday life, I’ve made appointments to go and see a doctor to check my health after all these years, I’ve made plans to go to a first meeting with the Italian [language] teacher at the university, during the day I’ve taken long walks, have been going for long car rides, all of this to look at everything, to remember my life, today I’m going for lunch with Chris and his work colleagues, afterwards I’ll meet up with Madison and with friends in the center… then will go and clean the apartment… Here is a nearly normal girl. I love you, Amanda’

The other guests all shouting at once… one says she should remember Meredith…

Rocco says: I think the verdict was beautiful…

The others are laughing at him, all cross talking… I think the host makes fun of Rocco something along the lines: no doubt she loves you…

Rocco says while smiling: No, Amanda for me is like a daughter…

Posted by Jools: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:36 am
==========================

Just checked, the above links seem to no longer work; they have probably expired. The videos on the mediaset website only last for a certain while before the link expires, so they probably no longer existed when I tried to access them after 1 week. :( I was able to watch the two videos before they disappeared from the playlist.


Last edited by guermantes on Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Thanks, Jackie. Very informative. I will say, that in any which way....blaming an innocent man, accusing police, leaves a stigma. Especially, blaming Patrick. That will always have people looking askance.

Yes, they are so done with the whole mess. However, Mignini doesn't seem to want to throw the towel in. He's absolutely convinced of guilt. A lot will depend on just what Hellman does with his report. Any weaknesses, Mignini will be over it like white on rice. Amanda may not be extradited, if found guilty........but, it will be on the books, come up when overseas. The report will be interesting. I think Hellman's going to come across as very weak, and weasly.

It won't be as long as Massei, but, I think Hellman will come off as not up to the job.


Very true about Judge Hellmann's weasel like tendencies.
In front of the TV cameras he specifically allowed to record himself as he read the verdict, he was all...
1) "not only not guilty, but innocent,
2) no evidence,
3) need to be immediately released,"
and so on

Hours later in smaller interviews, he makes statements like....
there is the possibility that Knox and Sollecito know a lot more about the murder of Meredith than they have admitted.....etcccc

From a poll being bantered and currently attempted to be "spin doctored" by the usual JREFer spinmeisters....the facts show only 11% of Italians polled by Oggi magazine agree with Judge Hellmann's Courtroom statements about innocence.

BTW
To his/her credit, the Poll was initially posted by Rose.
And even though the results are very contrary to her/his often and usually well stated beliefs, s/he also gently rebuked the JREF spin attempts when s/he said:

"I agree with Machiavelli on this one.
Only 11% are saying they believe they are innocent, period.
I don't think the responders are trying to parse it they way we have done.
It is just a simple opinion poll.
Are they giving an honest answer is my question?"
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Thanks anyway, G. Uffa, the work you all do is so appreciated. Jackie like short cuts sometimes, and I just use my * I'm not a techie :) ( to link all these articles.

The 4 years metered out to The Knox,was such a feeble compensation, for not finding her guilty . Exactly like Casey Anthony getting time served on lying to the police. It hasn't fooled anyone, imo, but, the groupies will take anything they can get, if it means their angel can walk the streets of Seattle.

The prosecution will have to do their best with the crumbs. If this goes down the way I think it will, they'll at least get some fairly heavy compensation..re: euros.

I wouldn't be surprised, If Hellmann is having other judges do the report for him. I say this, because he proved himself to be useless, out of touch, dealing with a case, in which he had NO expertise.

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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:48 pm   Post subject: Let's re-examine some evidence.   

Dark, deep scratch photographed on Knox's neck the morning the murder was discovered. Defence later said it was a "hickey". Wrong position wrong shape. Obviously a deep claw mark. Acquaintances of Knox said it wasn't there the day before.

Image

Here is the scratch healed, photographed when Knox was eventually arrested.

Image
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Offline donnie

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Apparently, the police didn't think that the mark was something they should focus on, correct?
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Apparently, you decided to post... again.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Hi, dg. How've you been? I've missed you tons.

I'm trying to equal your high scores :) One to go...........

Cheers, Pally.

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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Hey Cape,
I just couldn't let that turd slip in another post.

And just leave my high scores alone tt-) .

I've been reading all along since the appeal... just disgusted beyond belief. ss)
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I'm with you......

Yes, disgusted just about sums it up. Coming right after the Casey Anthony verdict, the shock was dimmed somewhat.

It's not over though. Apart from the Supreme Court...there's all kind of Justice. Just ask OJ :)

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

New batch of Knox/Terrano photos at Radar Online (please scroll if you're not interested, sorry).

Amanda Knox Out With New Boyfriend

Posted on Nov 14, 2011 @ 01:30PM

RADAR ONLINE

PHOTOS
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

guermantes wrote:
New batch of Knox/Terrano photos at Radar Online (please scroll if you're not interested, sorry).

Amanda Knox Out With New Boyfriend

Posted on Nov 14, 2011 @ 01:30PM

RADAR ONLINE

PHOTOS


Great pics.
Thanks for sharing them.

Notice how pissed Knox looks in pic 3 and 4 when she and squeeze look directly at person with camera ??
Sorry to say, but this is why Casey Anthony stays in hiding, and OJ scuffled with photogs before returning to slammer.

Patrick Lumumba once described Knox as the world's greatest actress.
I am sure her handlers will soon have a 'new script' for her to deal with this latest ' picture taker problem'
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Thanks for posting the pics, G.

Actually, I'm quite shocked. Amanda and the BF look exhausted, with puffy eyes. Dark, dark circles under Amanda's. Very bald looking in the front. She looks strained and much older.

She looked better when she was in prison.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

donnie wrote:
Apparently, the police didn't think that the mark was something they should focus on, correct?


Nope. They weren't able to get any DNA samples from under Meredith's nails, as far as I know. (Doesn't mean she didn't inflict the scrape, just that there wasn't anything conclusive or worth pursuing, but I look at it and say, she was in a fight)
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Thanks for posting the pics, G.

Actually, I'm quite shocked. Amanda and the BF look exhausted, with puffy eyes. Dark, dark circles under Amanda's. Very bald looking in the front. She looks strained and much older.

She looked better when she was in prison.


Absolutely
In fact IMHO, particularly hers, and her latest lover's eyes.
(I know you really watch/read eyes closely, Cape) :o

The two of them look like they probably cannot remember a thing about last night except they "made love" and smoked a few joints and watched "Amelie". ;)

Remember:
1) Raffie boasted that they "did it" 3-4 times a day,
2) Mary_H said they also probably woke up and "did it" 3-4 times during the night.
This was her explanation of the strange nocturnal patterns of activity on the computer.
Young lovers "all do that", (if you place credibility in "The world according to Mary_H"). eek-)


So it is little wonder why Cape notices that balding Amanda has dark circles and poor new lover boy looks all red eyed and so worn out.
He apparently does not even have time to pick out a different pair of pants to wear for the whole week he has been pictured with his new lover.
I bet the guy on the train even put on fresh pants every now and then

The "White Knight" guys in the FOAKer crowd, especially those who believe she has to be innocent just because she is sooooo 'hawt' notice these things.
That contingent of FOAKers really 'hooks up' with the stories about frequent lovemaking with multiple partners.
It really ...uhhhh... 'excites'... them
That is, of course just to hurry more talking points and PMF bashing out to the cyberworld. ;)
'Hi'... King, PhanuelB, delbalzo, and 'others'
hump-) hump-) hump-)

Any fun bets on how many minutes (or seconds) it will take for this to be carried to JREF ??
'Hi.... InhumanityBlueBalls, bankrupt-brucie, tooth-Grinder, smk a.k.a."not gonna post anymore", and 'the other usual suspects'


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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

OUCH, Stint :) :)

A picture tells a thousand words, eh? I daresay, Amanda is feeling some stress, being out in the World. And, the case is not over, not by a long shot.

Even so, I'm thinking....getting away with murder, doesn't necessarily mean a happy, carefree life. Even if you are a psycopath. Self involved as Manders is, I don't see a happy road ahead.

By the looks of things, she's finding that out. Smiling for photo ops, is one thing......................

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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

stint7 wrote:
Jackie wrote:
stint7 wrote:
Jackie wrote:
It would be interesting to know whether, notwithstanding the doctrine of Finality of Judgment that Cape is alluding to, inmates in Italy have any post-conviction remedies akin to habeas petitions or the Innocence Protection Act (post-conviction DNA testing if certain, rather demanding, criteria are met).

PS When is the calunnia trial set to proceed?


Latest scheduled Hearing dates I saw:

2011
15nov Amanda in Perugia (on hold ?)
22nov Prosecutor Mignini in Florence
2012
24jan Curt and Edda in Perugia
28mar Sollecito Family in Bari


Thanks, Stint! (I'm sorry to keep hassling you for this info.) It will be interesting to see how this charge is handled. I'm looking for signs that the prosecution hasn't lost its courage and that the judiciary hasn't been corrupted.


No hassle at all; glad to help. You always make excellent use of information to help us all.
I am not sure how 'up to date'/accurate my schedule is.
If anything was changed/re scheduled with little or no publicity, I prolly missed it


Hi Jackie.
Latest revision to trial schedule I saw today:
Amanda's trial for slandering Police originally 15nov2011 is now 10may2012
http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/2011/11 ... nnia.shtml

Interesting that the know it alls on JREF were all saying with their usual asinine authoritative demeanor that this slander charge would 'disappear' after the Appeal verdict.
Suuuure it would. :roll:

Real brilliant 'skeptics' over there, you know.
Just be skeptical of anything they tell you.
Because more often than not, they are 100% wrong.
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Offline kathyh


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ot. Sorry to inerupt your tread, but I need to get hold of Michael rather urgently. Do you know how I can get to him? I don't post, I only read your brilliant coments, but at the moment I'm a bit stuck. I've tried emailing him and PMing him and I'm getting no answer. Can you help please. Kathyh
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Offline lisareik


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Happy Birthday to Lisareik!!! hugz-) mul-) band-) tt-)


Thank you Michael!
I am so glad to see you are well and active again.
I join the board in somehow trusting in a just outcome of this- and all- sad and senseless crimes against human beings.

It is good to band together in order to achieve this.

Best to all the posters who keep the flame alive.
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

lisareik wrote:
Michael wrote:
Happy Birthday to Lisareik!!! hugz-) mul-) band-) tt-)


Thank you Michael!
I am so glad to see you are well and active again.
I join the board in somehow trusting in a just outcome of this- and all- sad and senseless crimes against human beings.

It is good to band together in order to achieve this.

Best to all the posters who keep the flame alive.


Best to you too lisareik
Come back soon with some more of your great posts
We miss ya


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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ooops...

Happy Birthday, Lisa. mul-)

Mah shlomcha?

Miss you..and hope is well with you and yours.....

hugz-)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Hi Kathyh,

Sorry I can't help. I'm waiting for a reply to my pm as well.

Sometimes Michael gets really busy, or isn't well.

He usually gets to them, though. As a last resort, you might pm Guermantes.

Sorry, Guermantes...but I'm thinking that as this is an emergency :(

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Offline kathyh


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Thankyou Cape. And , yes it is an emergency and family can't get hold of him. I will try Guermantes and hope she can help. I know he gets ill and I suspect that is why we can't get in touch with him. Thanks again. Kathyh
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

You're so welcome, Kathyh. I hope everything works out. I really do. Sorry I can't do more :(

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

kathyh wrote:
Thankyou Cape. And , yes it is an emergency and family can't get hold of him. I will try Guermantes and hope she can help. I know he gets ill and I suspect that is why we can't get in touch with him. Thanks again. Kathyh


Michael, we are hoping everything is ok. Even angels need a rest sometimes. r-((
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/2011/11 ... nnia.shtml

Defamation trial delayed till May 10th. Not really surprising I think.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Wishing you all the best Michael. Please let us know you're ok whenever you can.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I'm hoping all is well with you, Michael. Hurry on back. k-((

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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

re: neck scratch photo

Filomena Romanelli (Knox flatmate) reported that the only thing missing from her room was "some makeup"
photo 1 of the neck scratch knox had covered it up somewhat ... she wanted the scarf off sollecito to cover it
they weren't really that close - he wouldn't give her the scarf

in that photo you may see (if blown up) that the lower of knox's multiple ear-rings was clawed off
knox reported her blood was left on the faucet because she "had problems with her ear-ring"
that ear-ring was clawed off knox when meredith kercher fought for her life

the ear-ring was lost within the room - knox brought her table lamp (the only light source in her own room) into meredith kerchers room (it was found improbably on it's side at the end of meredith kerchers bed, with the flex outside the door) to scan the floor to find it

she may have got sollecito to clean beneath meredith kerchers fingernails with the reported "q tips" -- knox was afraid in her paranoid drugged state that there would be blood in her ears - she reported putting in her fingers in her ears to drown meredith kerchers scream - the scream heard by nara capazelli from her apartment way above

after that they ran

nobody came. they crept back and the cleanup began

people looking at knox and her irreverent geeky boyfriend on the streets of seattle will be thinking this it's well publicised

who analyse the case will know she's a killer

that's why she looks haunted - that's why the boyfriend looks somewhat uneasy

only the start ... the investigation continues
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
re: neck scratch photo

Filomena Romanelli (Knox flatmate) reported that the only thing missing from her room was "some makeup"
photo 1 of the neck scratch knox had covered it up somewhat ... she wanted the scarf off sollecito to cover it
they weren't really that close - he wouldn't give her the scarf

in that photo you may see (if blown up) that the lower of knox's multiple ear-rings was clawed off
knox reported her blood was left on the faucet because she "had problems with her ear-ring"
that ear-ring was clawed off knox when meredith kercher fought for her life

the ear-ring was lost within the room - knox brought her table lamp (the only light source in her own room) into meredith kerchers room (it was found improbably on it's side at the end of meredith kerchers bed, with the flex outside the door) to scan the floor to find it

she may have got sollecito to clean beneath meredith kerchers fingernails with the reported "q tips" -- knox was afraid in her paranoid drugged state that there would be blood in her ears - she reported putting in her fingers in her ears to drown meredith kerchers scream - the scream heard by nara capazelli from her apartment way above

after that they ran

nobody came. they crept back and the cleanup began

people looking at knox and her irreverent geeky boyfriend on the streets of seattle will be thinking this it's well publicised

who analyse the case will know she's a killer

that's why she looks haunted - that's why the boyfriend looks somewhat uneasy

only the start ... the investigation continues


I believe there was a struggle, but the blood may have been from a nose bleed. The ear ring was classic Amanda misdirection, If an ear ring were 'clawed off' it would tear the ear lobe and would have been noticed by the investigators, as signs of a struggle.

Still, the lamp by the bedside. Did Meredith have her own lamp in the room?
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
ttrroonniicc wrote:
re: neck scratch photo

Filomena Romanelli (Knox flatmate) reported that the only thing missing from her room was "some makeup"
photo 1 of the neck scratch knox had covered it up somewhat ... she wanted the scarf off sollecito to cover it
they weren't really that close - he wouldn't give her the scarf

in that photo you may see (if blown up) that the lower of knox's multiple ear-rings was clawed off
knox reported her blood was left on the faucet because she "had problems with her ear-ring"
that ear-ring was clawed off knox when meredith kercher fought for her life

the ear-ring was lost within the room - knox brought her table lamp (the only light source in her own room) into meredith kerchers room (it was found improbably on it's side at the end of meredith kerchers bed, with the flex outside the door) to scan the floor to find it

she may have got sollecito to clean beneath meredith kerchers fingernails with the reported "q tips" -- knox was afraid in her paranoid drugged state that there would be blood in her ears - she reported putting in her fingers in her ears to drown meredith kerchers scream - the scream heard by nara capazelli from her apartment way above

after that they ran

nobody came. they crept back and the cleanup began

people looking at knox and her irreverent geeky boyfriend on the streets of seattle will be thinking this it's well publicised

who analyse the case will know she's a killer

that's why she looks haunted - that's why the boyfriend looks somewhat uneasy

only the start ... the investigation continues


I believe there was a struggle, but the blood may have been from a nose bleed. The ear ring was classic Amanda misdirection, If an ear ring were 'clawed off' it would tear the ear lobe and would have been noticed by the investigators, as signs of a struggle.

Still, the lamp by the bedside. Did Meredith have her own lamp in the room?


Yes, it was on the floor by the nightstand in several pics I have seen.

But... no light source in AK's room during the morning 'boogie' and shower festivities. huh-)
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=2122

Here it is Ergon.
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Offline kathyh


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

OT, Again. Michael is not feeling too well today and rather stressed, but he is generally ok. One reason why you haven't heard from him is because he's had trouble with his computer and has spent the last few days putting it right. Thought you all aught to know this and stop your worries. Best wishes to all, Kathyh
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

kathyh wrote:
OT, Again. Michael is not feeling too well today and rather stressed, but he is generally ok. One reason why you haven't heard from him is because he's had trouble with his computer and has spent the last few days putting it right. Thought you all aught to know this and stop your worries. Best wishes to all, Kathyh


Thank you so very much for the update, kathyh.
Glad you were able to touch base.
Michael is always in our thoughts.
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

kathyh wrote:
OT, Again. Michael is not feeling too well today and rather stressed, but he is generally ok. One reason why you haven't heard from him is because he's had trouble with his computer and has spent the last few days putting it right. Thought you all aught to know this and stop your worries. Best wishes to all, Kathyh


Thank you so very much for the update, kathyh.
Glad you were able to touch base.
Michael is always in our thoughts.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

How very kind of you, kathyh, to let us know. Please send Michael my best, and hope he, and his comp are back on their feet soon.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Thanks for getting the update out there, kathyh. I'm glad to hear Michael is alright. Positive energy sent his way! Hope he feels better soon and YAY for his progress with his computer repair. Hope other things work out well, too!
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

kathyh wrote:
OT, Again. Michael is not feeling too well today and rather stressed, but he is generally ok. One reason why you haven't heard from him is because he's had trouble with his computer and has spent the last few days putting it right. Thought you all aught to know this and stop your worries. Best wishes to all, Kathyh




Thanks for the update!

Michael, as a very dear friend told me the other day- be good to you, who else is gonna do it? mike
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

stint7 wrote:
Latest revision to trial schedule I saw today:
Amanda's trial for slandering Police originally 15nov2011 is now 10may2012
http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/2011/11 ... nnia.shtml


max wrote:
]http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/2011/11 ... nnia.shtml

Defamation trial delayed till May 10th. Not really surprising I think.


Thanks stint and max for the news about AK's slander trial.

The version below is an embellishment of the original Google trans of the La Nazione article. :)

Perugia, November 15, 2011 - Postponed to May 10 because of the abstention of lawyers close to the trial, scheduled for today in Perugia, in which Amanda Knox is accused of defamation to the detriment of police agents and performers involved in Meredith Kercher murder investigations.

The hearing was held before a single judge and lasted only a few minutes. Knox was recently acquitted on appeal after being accused by the prosecution of killing Meredith Kercher. Knox was discharged, and then went back to Seattle. [But] The young American was sentenced to three years imprisonment (already discounted) for having slandered Patrick Lumumba. His statements were included in the Meredith Kercher murder investigation but he was acknowledged to be completely alien to the crime and then exonerated.

During the first trial for the murder of British student, Knox made statements that led to the libel trial that was to be conducted today. In particular, for having falsely accused an interpreter who assisted at the police station the night of Knox’s arrest and who allegedly “suggested” to Knox to remember Lumumba, and Knox also accused certain agents and officials of having ''struck her in the head.''


La Nazione
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I found this when searching the web and I'm glad I stumbled upon it. Don't know if it is of interest to anyone, can't remember if it's been posted before or whatnot, but here it is:

School of Knox

Why is Seattle Prep defending a former student convicted of murder?

By James Ross Gardner

The article, which was published in December 2010 (less than a year ago), is very informative and worth reading.

The Amanda Knox story has moved on, but for anyone who may be interested in the origins, please read on at this link:

SEATTLE MET

Attachment:
book-Knox.jpg


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:00 am   Post subject: Writing Assignment!   

I have a question for all the posters and lurkers out there.

Could you write a few lines (or a lot, which will be moi) about what drew you to this case? I've written about how some criminal cases establish themselves in the public consciousness. Some like Casey Anthony's, are a mile wide and an inch deep, and forgotten when the next big one comes along. I believe this one will fascinate us for a long time to come.

I promise not to write a book about it :) It's really just to start a conversation with all of you. Your reasons might be personal, or you're interested in the psychology, or you know a crime victim. No prizes either, so think of it as a writing assignment.

Why do people care so much about this case? I hope they'll write their stories, because I think we all can learn a little bit more about ourselves, and, I'm interested
in what you have to say.

I'll start with my own story.

What drew me to this case

I'm an inveterate writer, having written on various chat forums for the last twelve years or so. Most of my writing there was political and concerned with social justice as opposed to my main interest of spiritual writing. Finally, after three years and 20,000 comments on Huffington Post I got tired of endless debate that seemed like a substitute for action. I'd returned from a trip to Bulgaria and decided to quit. I wrote a blog, Bye Bye Huffington Post, and then, got sucked into the Murder of Meredith Kercher.

What I noticed was that there were two, well defined camps of opinion. One side, that Rudy Guede, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were all guilty of the crime of murder, and the other, that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito had been railroaded by a crazy prosecutor and the crime had been committed by one person, Rudy Guede.

Now, I'm a long time reader of crime fiction, starting with the Ellery Queen mysteries (that pegs me as quite old) From the legal perspective, I read Perry Mason novels before there was TV. Movies, and I loved Hitchcock. I was 7 years old when I watched "Rear Window". Chills, man.

What drew me to this case was the debate on Huffington Post. People seemed so sure of their views. This was when Amanda Knox had been found guilty. It seemed like her supporters were deranged. Calls to invade Italy, that she was 'not the type to commit murder', attacks on the victim's family, oh dear.

First, I wanted to know which side I chose. I hope you'll also share what convinced you. For me, it was very simple. She'd accused an innocent man. Her story kept changing. Her boyfriend refused to corroborate her alibi. There was a clearly staged break in; a window no self respecting burglar would have climbed through. Her blood mixed with Meredith's, Raffaele's DNA on Meredith's bra, his bloody footprint on the bathmat, Amanda's DNA on the knife, witnesses who placed them at the scene, cell phone and computer activity, and. most tellingly of all, her strange behaviour before and after the crime was discovered convinced me the two were also guilty. Rudy Guede, their accomplice, first denied their involvement, then when he lost his appeal and no longer had anything to gain by lying, named them as the killers.

In contrast, the mental gymnastics of her defenders to try and refute every point really mirrored that of Amanda's: the excuses a child makes to avoid punishment. The fingerprints of a PR agency determined effort to absolve her of guilt. The antics of her and Raffaele's parents, who seemed to be in denial. The abusing of a whole country, Italy. American hypermedia using the same florid style they use to sell wars.

But that was what my brain told me. The emotions were deeper. I knew she was guilty. And unlike most people nowdays, I trust my gut even more than my brain. I almost always go with my first impression, which serves me well. I still examine that impression for mistakes, but confess, this case got me from the beginning.

Meredith Kercher was a Capricorn, like me. But then, so was Rudy Guede. Rafaele Sollecito was an Aries, and, Amanda Knox was a Cancer, with the same birthday as OJ Simpson, July 09. The similarities between that case and this was interesting. The day of the murder, November 01, 2007, had many astrological significators which showed the power to capture the public imagination. My blog articles, What Might Have Been, The Criminal Mind, and The Psycho-Astrological Perspective on the Relationship of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were a reflection of my own perspective.

On a deeper, more visceral level, Meredith Kercher looked like my daughter. I could identify what the Kerchers must be going through. That was not what convinced me though. I read the reasoning of the Massei court's guilty verdict. The Micheli court had already made that very clear, and the Supreme Court ruling on Rudy Guede also filled out the gaps in the story. I did not want to rely only on emotion, but, wanted an intellectual reasoning behind that. Yet, ironically, it was my feeling, once again, that convinced me the appeals court would acquit the two defendants. I didn't want to say that too openly, though, but there really were too many signs to indicate there was a political element to the whole trial, and wrongful influence of the verdict at the Hellmann court.

What keeps us coming back to this story? I think it is because the story has not ended. Like all good stories, we want to know how it turns out. There is an old Italy which allowed the two accused to walk free. Now that a new Italy is here with a change of government, hopefully justice will be done.

I know I will be here till the final ruling comes down, to see how the story ends.

Naseer Ahmad
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

guermantes wrote:
I found this when searching the web and I'm glad I stumbled upon it. Don't know if it is of interest to anyone, can't remember if it's been posted before or whatnot, but here it is:

School of Knox

Why is Seattle Prep defending a former student convicted of murder?

By James Ross Gardner

The article, which was published in December 2010 (less than a year ago), is very informative and worth reading.

The Amanda Knox story has moved on, but for anyone who may be interested in the origins, please read on at this link:

SEATTLE MET

Attachment:
book-Knox.jpg


Outstanding read.
Thanks, Ergon

Couple quick thoughts:

1) Seattle Prep staff apparently remembers and thinks a lot more of Knox than she remembers much about any of them.
This because I always had problems understanding how an 'honors graduate' of a Catholic School tells the world on Facebook that she is agnostic.
(and also writes/spells like anything but 'honors')
Says a lot for the way the authors of this article leave "lasting impressions" on their students.

2) Hard core FOAKers very evident in comments with atta boys to authors

3) Seattle Prep staffs' official statement about verdict for obvious reasons makes no direct mention of BIG influence of their local 'good ol boy', close pal, Marriott, and his BIG part in Knox's release.
http://www.seaprep.org/page.aspx?pid=712
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Um, thanks, but that was Guermantes who posted the article, stint7 :)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I love the article, Ergon...and will post a reply, prolly over the weekend, as I have horribly busy days, tomorrow and Saturday. I just came home, ( out since 6-30 am ) am exhausted.

And, just think as a bonus, :) , it might even be *discussed* etc, on another site................

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox: love can wait
"I need air and people"

She sees her ex, but says 'we do not live together'. She lives with a [female] friend and plans to go back to college.

"I need air and people." So Amanda Knox, a month and a half after her release, she explains how she feels. The girl, who was spotted a few days ago with her boyfriend on the streets of Seattle, does not think about love for the moment. [She doesn’t feel quite ready for a love story.]

After 4 years in prison, Amanda is not in a hurry, [wants to savor everything calmly and without surges.]

The weekly OGGI explains that what was touted as her new beau is actually a former, however, with Sicilian origins: James Terrano, the same age as Amanda, who from the East Coast (he is from New York) flew all the way to Seattle to study music a few years ago.

The boy had already had a relationship with Amanda and the distance in recent years has strengthened the idea that he might be the right man from whom to start. Not right away, though. For now, they have a deep sense and frequent feelings of affection but will not plan anything. Because after four years behind bars, Amanda does not want to take every moment as if it were her last.

Currently she lives in a rented accommodation with a [female] friend in the International District of Seattle, takes lessons in self-defense and will go back to the University in January. There is no time for writing a book about her years in jail. Because, as she revealed to her friends: "I need oxygen, ocean, people, not to write and read: I did nothing else in prison."


CRONACALIVE

TGCOM


Last edited by guermantes on Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nothing new, same old story, not worthy to be read, some pictures. These photos get taken (and published) again and again. Yawn. p-(((

Without a care in the world: Amanda Knox walks arm-in-arm with her boyfriend as the pair shop for veg in Chinatown

By Leon Watson

THE DAILY MAIL
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Offline beans


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I have been trying to access Rudy Guede's prison diary in the "In Their Own Words" section. I can get the listing of the various categories of entries (for Knox, Raffaele, Guede, etc.) but when I click on Rudy Guede's diary I am almost immediately redirected to "The Times UK" website with what must be today's front page. This also happened on the PMF.org site. I didn't know the materials on the two PMFs were connected in any way. Does anyone know why this is happening? Can it be fixed? The TJMK site has had recent references to Guede's 29-page "letter" which I had never heard of but the diary is 29 pages in length so I assume that is the document in question. But I have been unable to access it on either .net or .org.

Thanks for any help re this problem. th-)
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Offline beans


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

With reference to where Knoxious is living these days--recall she was also "living" at Via della Pergola during the last week of Meredith's life, but spending every night at Raffaele's place. Perhaps the same thing is happening now but just sounds better if they say she is living with an "amica".
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

beans wrote:
I have been trying to access Rudy Guede's prison diary in the "In Their Own Words" section. I can get the listing of the various categories of entries (for Knox, Raffaele, Guede, etc.) but when I click on Rudy Guede's diary I am almost immediately redirected to "The Times UK" website with what must be today's front page. This also happened on the PMF.org site. I didn't know the materials on the two PMFs were connected in any way. Does anyone know why this is happening? Can it be fixed? The TJMK site has had recent references to Guede's 29-page "letter" which I had never heard of but the diary is 29 pages in length so I assume that is the document in question. But I have been unable to access it on either .net or .org.

Thanks for any help re this problem. th-)


Hi Beans

Check your PM for problem solution
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

beans wrote:
Does anyone know why this is happening? Can it be fixed?


Hi beans, nice to see you here. When I try to access Rudy's Diary, I'm getting the same redirect loop as you. Very strange indeed. I have no idea why it continues to happen, and can't seem to figure out the cause. Michael may be able to help and answer your questions when he is back online.

In the meantime, here is Rudy's German Diary:


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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox's life= = = = = =BORING!!!

Amanda just has NO personality. At all.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:31 pm   Post subject: Writing assignment   

Here's another go at it.
Attachment:
snoopy.jpg


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:37 am   Post subject: For the people of Italy   

Attachment:
Chart Italy.gif
My new article Quo Vadis http://manfromatlan.blogspot.com/2011/11/quo-vadis.html


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

And since I know it really stirs up the JLOL hive when I use astrology, I predict we'll be hearing a lot from Rudy Guede in 2012 which will shed further light on this case :)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
And since I know it really stirs up the JLOL hive when I use astrology, I predict we'll be hearing a lot from Rudy Guede in 2012 which will shed further light on this case :)


Hi, E. - I'm a sucker for the scientific method but, just for fun, I'd be interested to know whether you predicted the acquittals and, if so, what you see ahead in terms of the proposed appeal.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

stint7 wrote:
Hi Jackie.
Latest revision to trial schedule I saw today:
Amanda's trial for slandering Police originally 15nov2011 is now 10may2012
http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/2011/11 ... nnia.shtml

Interesting that the know it alls on JREF were all saying with their usual asinine authoritative demeanor that this slander charge would 'disappear' after the Appeal verdict.
Suuuure it would. :roll:

Real brilliant 'skeptics' over there, you know.
Just be skeptical of anything they tell you.
Because more often than not, they are 100% wrong.


Thanks, S. - a 'lawyers' strike'?! WTF?

The administration of justice in Italy is a complete mystery to me.

Lawyers striking...

Now I've heard everything.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Amanda Knox's life= = = = = =BORING!!!

Amanda just has NO personality. At all.


I dunno, Cape - she deserves a few points for shacking up with a dude that wears orange pants 7 days a week ;-)

Now that the Marriott-crafted Media Beast will be demanding regular feedings for some time to come, I suspect we're going to get a closer look at AK's personality.

I, for one, am looking forward to getting a chance to see whether she's as deeply disturbed as I'm led to believe on the basis of everything from her court record in Seattle and her "creative writing", to her shocking courtroom demeanor and her unspeakably evil accusation of Lumumba.

I still can't get over the Marie Pace incident - I think we're in for quite a show.

She couldn't even play it straight for the 1st month of freedom. An inappropriate Halloween costume (Stay home that week, FFS! If you can't, then ANYTHING but a black skull cap!); a jaw droppingly quick cohabitation with yet another dude; a violent sport ... by any objective measure, NONE of it undermines the notion that Knox has dark and/or inappropriate impulses that she, and her handlers, cannot stifle.
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jackie wrote:
stint7 wrote:
Hi Jackie.
Latest revision to trial schedule I saw today:
Amanda's trial for slandering Police originally 15nov2011 is now 10may2012
http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/2011/11 ... nnia.shtml

Interesting that the know it alls on JREF were all saying with their usual asinine authoritative demeanor that this slander charge would 'disappear' after the Appeal verdict.
Suuuure it would. :roll:

Real brilliant 'skeptics' over there, you know.
Just be skeptical of anything they tell you.
Because more often than not, they are 100% wrong.


Thanks, S. - a 'lawyers' strike'?! WTF?
Now I've heard everything.


brucie tells one of his peanut gallery peons this about the calunnia charge today:

Bruce, do you know if the calunnia conviction will be appealed?

"No word on that yet.
The charge is not recognized in the United States so it will not have any long term effect on Amanda. Nothing at all."

_____________
Other than how to declare personal bankruptcy twice, I am not sure where/how brucie gets any such dogmatic legal knowledge.
But the peons always lap it all up and sing a round of "How reat thou art ".........
Not sure I would believe much of anything since his long record of past 'misstatements' even had Frank Sfarzo saying brucie was 'confused'
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Jackie wrote:
stint7 wrote:
Hi Jackie.
Latest revision to trial schedule I saw today:
Amanda's trial for slandering Police originally 15nov2011 is now 10may2012
http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/2011/11 ... nnia.shtml

Interesting that the know it alls on JREF were all saying with their usual asinine authoritative demeanor that this slander charge would 'disappear' after the Appeal verdict.
Suuuure it would. :roll:

Real brilliant 'skeptics' over there, you know.
Just be skeptical of anything they tell you.
Because more often than not, they are 100% wrong.


Thanks, S. - a 'lawyers' strike'?! WTF?
Now I've heard everything.


brucie tells one of his peanut gallery peons this about the calunnia charge today:

Bruce, do you know if the calunnia conviction will be appealed?

"No word on that yet.
The charge is not recognized in the United States so it will not have any long term effect on Amanda. Nothing at all."

_____________
Other than how to declare personal bankruptcy twice, I am not sure where/how brucie gets any such dogmatic legal knowledge.
But the peons always lap it all up and sing a round of "How great thou art ".........

Not sure I would believe much of anything brucie says since his long record of past 'misstatements' even had Frank Sfarzo saying brucie was 'confused'
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

stint7 wrote:
Not sure I would believe much of anything brucie says since his long record of past 'misstatements' even had Frank Sfarzo saying brucie was 'confused'


True, but then, Frankie's 'twisted'. Just saying..
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Hello Everyone. Just to let you know I'm safe and sound and apologies if I worried anyone. I have been ill these past few days, added to which I've had computer issues. The combination has effectively knocked me out of action as an online presence. I'm through the worst of it now, I think and should be heading back into normal operations. I'm behind on my PM's and shall be attending to those later.

Thank you to all those that offered concern and kind words :)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Welcome back, Michael.

Lots of computer issues all around it seems. IE 8 keeps crashing my computer :( so I use other browsers when possible.
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
stint7 wrote:
Not sure I would believe much of anything brucie says since his long record of past 'misstatements' even had Frank Sfarzo saying brucie was 'confused'


True, but then, Frankie's 'twisted'. Just saying..


Agree that Sfarzo definitely marches to a strange drumbeat on his Blog
But like all the fanatical FOAKers, Sfarzo rarely if ever turns against one of his own.
He deletes almost immediately any commenter strongly arguing guilt.
But takes great care to never say a bad word about anyone arguing innocence.

That is why I really took notice when he said that Bruce Fischer/Fisher was confused
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Welcome back, Michael.

We missed your wit and wisdom

Stay well, my friend


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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

stint7 wrote:
...
[i]Bruce, do you know if the calunnia conviction will be appealed?

"No word on that yet.
The charge is not recognized in the United States so it will not have any long term effect on Amanda. Nothing at all."[/i]
...'



An interesting legal question.

Who better to ask than a penniless middle aged fur salesman?
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Boxy Knoxy: Amanda taking Special Forces self-defence classes in Seattle gym

21st November 2011

THE DAILY MAIL
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Nice to see you back, Michael! :)
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Offline stint7


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Under the topic of 'I cannot make this stuff up', check this post from brucie's BS Forum:

One funny thing in the massei is when they collected and analyzed shoes. Amanda had 4 pairs including one used for rock climbing (not really usable for anything else). I believe AK mentions in the diary they took her hiking boots, so Amanda had only Two or three pairs of shoes. By comparison According to the Massei report Meredith had 12 pairs of shoes.

To me the funny part is thinking a girl that has only two pairs of shoes would enslave two men using her beauty and lust to kill her roommate. And then be labeled narcissistic.

_____________________________________________
Let me get the logic of that one straight:

Meredith had 12 pairs of shoes.
Amanda only had 2 pairs of shoes.
Therefore Amanda could not have murdered Meredith

Got it.
Yes, that sure is the 'funny' part
But to brucie's followers, that makes perfect sense.
Of course, I should have known... you gotta have more than 2 pairs of shoes to be a murderess.
huh-) wtf)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Thanks for the welcome guys :)

I see Knox has been working hard on keeping a low profile...not.

What is interesting, is that it now appears that the advocates of Knox, whose self declared primary directive was to 'prove her innocence', since she has been acquitted, have now set themselves up as a self-appointed Knox PR team to 'defend her honour', obsessed with the role of apologists for Knox in the comments section of any article or blog that dares report on any of her actions since her release. It would appear that having gotten what they wanted...her release...they simply can't let her go, feeling the need to leap to her defence at the merest perceived slight or rebuke. How long do they intend to be her defenders now that the stated objective has been achieved...a few months? A few years? The rest of her life? Has Knox herself requested this? I think not. Isn't it time these people moved along?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Wasn't Mignini's hearing scheduled for today?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

From Andrea Vogt:

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Ex-cop #guittari Monster of Florence conviction annulled. He demands Italian police chiefs clarify why #narducci investigation blocked.


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
A Florence appeals court has annulled conviction of #amandaknox prosecutor Giuliano Mignini and monster of florence investigator Guittari


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Judge Romagnoli: jurisdiction should not have been Florence, sends case to Turin. Ironic? Appeal victories for both #amandaknox & Mignini.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:

Monster Florence: Reverted sentences PM Mignini and Giuttari
The prosecution was an abuse of office. Acts passed in Turin
November 22, 19:21

The Court of Appeal of Florence, Florence said the lack of territorial jurisdiction with regard to the proceedings against the prosecutor Giuliano Mignini in Perugia and the policeman writer Michele Giuttari. The Court of Appeals then reversed the decision at first instance in which in January 2010 Mignini and Giuttari were sentenced to one year and four months and six months for abuse of office in the competition. The story and 'connected Perugia investigations related to the monster of Florence.

The Court of Appeals then ordered the transmission of documents to the Prosecutor of Turin, competent 'cause among the injured parties in the proceedings of Florence there' a magistrate of Genoa. Mignini and 'owner was the judge in Perugia investigation into the death of the doctor Francesco Narducci, Umbrian believed that the prosecutors linked to the events of the Monster of Florence. Giuttari was the policeman who was in charge of the investigation. The abuse of office for which they were convicted on a number of investigative journalists and law enforcement officials carried out, according to the prosecution, to influence them, 'cause they kept critical attitudes toward the investigation into the death of Narducci. Mignini and 'owner was the judge in Perugia investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher: the story of British student has nothing to do with the proceedings at issue today in the Court of Appeal in Florence. Giuttari, who retired from the police, now performs the activity 'of the lawyer-detective and is' a mystery writer.

Mignini, DECISION WAS REQUIRED -''And 'forced a decision. From the beginning they could not treat this case in Florence. This transfer was to be first.'' He said the prosecutor Giuliano Mignini commenting on the appellate ruling that overturned the conviction of the judge at first instance and ordered the transfer of the case from Florence to Turin. Mignini, responding to reporters, then confirmed that the crime (abuse of office) may fall into a prescription. With him, 'the policeman charged-writer Michele Giuttari. Even for him there 'was the annulment of the conviction of first degree and the declaration of territorial jurisdiction. ''Since I have a bitterness investigator - said Giuttari - This activity 'carried out by Florence block' investigation into the death of Perugia doctor Francesco Narducci who believed connected to the Monster of Florence. Acts of that survey were seized, effectively blocking it.''


ANSA

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Tiziano - if you are reading, could we kindly have a proper translation of the above?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Amanda Knox prosecutor wins his own appeal

by KING5.com

Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:49 PM

Updated today at 12:52 PM

KING5

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

The Knox Groupies are very upset.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:05 am   Post subject: Astrology   

Jackie wrote:
Ergon wrote:
And since I know it really stirs up the JLOL hive when I use astrology, I predict we'll be hearing a lot from Rudy Guede in 2012 which will shed further light on this case :)


Hi, E. - I'm a sucker for the scientific method but, just for fun, I'd be interested to know whether you predicted the acquittals and, if so, what you see ahead in terms of the proposed appeal.


Hi Jackie,

Yes, I picked up on the verdict and told a few people about it, but the whole process actually was a lot more complex. It might serve a higher purpose to speak of it now.

We astrologists hate to speak in terms of certainties. Astrology only gives us statistical probabilities and tendencies, and it is from there we make 'predictions', if at all. Yet in the case of Amanda Knox and her cohorts, there emerged such a clear picture of their psychology, the actual murder, and eventual outcome; that coloured my commentary here, and on dot.org and TJMK.

Full disclosure: I had been a practicing psychic since I was 16. I also was a medium. Then I studied the field of psychology to better understand the fine line between psychic sensitivity and mental illness.

My first posts on PMF were to establish my astrological inclinations, and if some didn’t agree with it, that was fine with me. I could and would write in detail about the spiritual and psychological aspects of this case on my own blog, summarized here: A Psycho-Astrological Perspective on the Relationship of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito http://manfromatlan.blogspot.com/2011/1 ... ve-on.html .

And so I did, and my first one, What Might Have Been http://manfromatlan.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... -been.html got quite a reaction, not least of all in myself. Published on June 26, 2011, I wrote: “But tomorrow, on June 27, Rudy Guede will face Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in their appeals trial, and for the first time, be forced to answer questions directly. I believe this will be the day he begins to redeem himself.

On June 30th, the DNA experts will present their findings. This will be one day before the solar eclipse in Cancer. I predict bombshells in court” (Later, I went on to say there would be further ‘bombshells’, i.e.: surprises to come)

I’d already posted on PMF for more than a month that I didn’t trust Judge Hellman’s court to arrive at a fair verdict. That concern was um, pooh poohed. I told more than one person here about that possibility, and they said it would be too painful for them to accept.

I was about to write another article about this possibility. But first, I asked this question in the first week of July: “According to Italian law, if AK/RS are acquitted on the first appeal, are they home free, or do they go the Supreme Court-Cassation?” That was because I thought if she were allowed to go home, there would be a problem with extradition.

The reply from an insider was “For sure it must go to the Supreme Court. That is automatic even if the prosecution doesn’t lodge grounds for an appeal. Their passports will probably remain confiscated and they would have to remain in Italy for another year and a half.”

None of our Italian lawyers can see Cassation backing down on their finding that three perps were there at the crime. There are no other perps in sight....”

I wrote back: “I am doing the background research for the astrology article. All things being equal, Knox/Sollecito will lose the appeal. But there is a lot of political pressure in the background, and I wonder if Judge Hellman is immune. He does have a friendship with Giulia Bongiorno and other things that had me wondering”

But the whole episode made me look at the astrology, which I did on July 14. There I saw very clearly they would be acquitted due to interference in the process.

Here is where my own conflict arises. I question myself with every pronouncement, every day, whether I could be wrong. I don’t believe that I am, but am very careful not to say anything that might hurt or discourage. Being right or wrong is not important to me, but just, to help people to move on.

So I warned people “they’d have to be in for the long haul”. People expected the verdict at the end of September. I said no, it would be early October. I pointed out Knox, like OJ Simpson, was born July 09, and OJ Simpson was acquitted Oct. 03. And I told people “not to expect a slam dunk”. Ouch.

Then, on September 27 I wrote: “One more Astrological statement and it is not to predict the outcome of this trial. Today is the New Moon which falls directly on the horoscopes of the defendants. Over the next two weeks, all delusion will be stripped away. Perhaps now would be the time to accept what must be. They will never be free until they accept responsibility..”

Of course, most readers didn’t realize I was talking about acquittal, and not a finding of guilt, sorry. Yet to an astrologer, the New Moon of that day falling on the defendants horoscopes clearly showed acquittal.

Even then, when I was asked a direct question, I wrote back by PM, “The answer is, I don't know. My first impulse was she was going to be acquitted, but that really (might have) to do with picking up the collective fears of so many people she might get off scot free.”

I added later, “Early this year I said I didn't trust Judge Hellmann and gave my reasons on all three sites. You saw the answers from people who kept saying they didn't believe in 'predictions', but then, they were so sure she would be convicted again. It is that sort of certainty that can be very confusing to our psychic antennae, because, contrary to sceptical opinion, we don't deal in certainties, we talk about probabilities”.

But, having said that, I did warn many people the verdict could be overturned, and it was the Supreme Court where I felt Meredith Kercher would receive justice.That requires the case to get there, of course.

Then, concerning my prediction Knox and Sollecito would come out of prison in their 40’s, I PM’ed to the Secret Astrological Army of PMF :) "I used the progression method to conclude the following: Around her 40-41st year, Amanda Knox would come to the end of one cycle that arose out of following the pleasure principle (the planet Jupiter goes retrograde) This was compounded by Saturn turning direct the same year. Saturn represents responsibilities, but I interpreted it as the end of one karmic cycle and the beginning of another.

Yes, I believe this indicates she will come out of prison when she turns 40-41, but of course there are metaphorical prisons too, are there not?

Because this relates to what I believe may happen now. Earlier, I asked if it was possible the motivation report might not come out at all. This concern was also misunderstood too, my bad. My fear was the political interference would lead to another miscarriage of justice. Sadly, the possibility does exist. We do not know for sure the Hellmann report will come out in 90 days. There is a precedent of other judges taking their, er, time. And yes, the Supreme Court might well bow to political pressure and find the route of least resistance. They are people like any other.

But there are two things I believe. In 2012 Rudy Guede will start speaking out. And one way or the other, Meredith Kercher’s restless spirit will receive justice.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

By Robin L. Barton

Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:58


Should Coverage of Criminal Cases Focus on Defendant or Victim?


THE CRIME REPORT

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Tuesday, November 22, 2011
Mignini’s And Giuttari’s Florence Convictions Are Overturned As Florence Court Had No Jurisdiction
Posted by Peter Quennell

TRUE JUSTICE

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Tuesday, November 22, 2011
Mignini’s And Giuttari’s Florence Convictions Are Overturned As Florence Court Had No Jurisdiction
Posted by Peter Quennell

TRUE JUSTICE


"It wasn’t Mignini who invented the Florence cabal (or satanic sect) notion and he is suspicious of people (like Preston and Spetzi) who work so hard to deny it"

I am also suspicious of the fact that many FOA are from the James Randi/Michael Shermer cult groups that make a career of denying the presence of people that are into satanism or pedophilia (Their promotion of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation is interesting in itself)

This is not to say that every one in JREF is a pedophile or satanist, obviously. They attract bright intelligent students and rational thinkers, who sadly, are just as easily seduced by flawed theoretical structures as any conspiracy theorist. But I for one am glad that the spotlight is now back on those who try to deny the presence of such groups of people. Europe is rife with them, and too many killings and child molestation rings have gone on unexamined.

That PM Mignini was attacked precisely because he was investigating this and is now exonerated is important to know. He is a decent man and what happened to him was a shame.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Mignini inherited the whole Satanism thing in regard to the MOF case when he took on the Narducci case. That is because some of those arrested in connection with the MOF case claimed Satanism was the motive and there was a sort of cult conspiracy going on. It was one of several theories Mignini had to consider.

As you (Ergon) have said, Satanist crimes whilst rare in the US and UK are not rare in Europe, especially in Italy. There have in fact been some rather high profile infamous Satanist crimes in Italy. Therefore, if an Italian prosecutor considers Satanism as a possible theory for a crime he is not considered a whack job, as a prosecutor in the US would be. Italy has a history of those sorts of crimes.

It should also be understood what is meant by 'Satanism' in Italy. It doesn't necessarily mean a full blown Satanic cult of serious practitioners that have black mass every week. Often, it's youths playing at it because they think it sounds cool and it's rebellious. For them, it's just a game. In the course of their trying to rebel, they commit a terrible crime.

I agree, what has happened to Mignini has been particularly nasty and what has been done to him could have been done to almost any Italian prosecutor. Anyone can have muck racked up about them. His real crime was that he was prosecuting Knox and he handled the investigation. That's it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Wednesday, November 23, 2011
My Story – The Friends of Amanda Knox

by Anne Bremner


WOMEN IN CRIME INK

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

From the above:

Quote:
In my 25 years of legal practice, prior to my involvement with the Amanda Knox case, I had never had a negative news article or comment published about me in the media or on the Internet. That all changed with Amanda Knox. I received a virtual avalanche of negative publicity, comments and posts. My involvement in this case nearly ruined my reputation and career.



Hmmm...a bit like what you were doing to Mignini, right Anne? It's strange you don't mention the smear jobs you and your merry band were doing on people and their careers in your self-congratulatory blog article. Perhaps it doesn't read so well when you're thumping your own chest.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

We'll be listening: Amanda Knox case reveals extent of Italian wiretapping
By Doug Longhini


CBS NEWS

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I think Doug Longhini is missing the part where the wire taps were put in place as part of an investigation into a violent sex murder. He's also missing the part where the suspects and their families weren't co-operating with the police investigation. He's also missed the part where as a direct result of the phone taps, the Sollecitos are facing criminal charges for which they are due to stand trial for. No mention of that.

What 'I' am missing, is how any phone calls can possibly prove Knox and Sollecito's innocence. Neither Longhini nor Sfarzo elaborate on how what someone might say over a phone can prove their innocence. No surprises there.

And as for Sollecito Sr being shocked after the fact that his calls were being bugged...please! He knew at the time his phone was being bugged and even cautioned his daughter over the phone to be careful with what she said as people were likely listening in.

Neither does Longhini point out the fact that people are only bugged when it is in connection with serious crime, it isn't done as a general form of snooping on the greater public which is what he is trying to imply.

The whole article seems to be another excersise in Italy bashing.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
Mignini inherited the whole Satanism thing in regard to the MOF case when he took on the Narducci case. That is because some of those arrested in connection with the MOF case claimed Satanism was the motive and there was a sort of cult conspiracy going on. It was one of several theories Mignini had to consider.

As you (Ergon) have said, Satanist crimes whilst rare in the US and UK are not rare in Europe, especially in Italy. There have in fact been some rather high profile infamous Satanist crimes in Italy. Therefore, if an Italian prosecutor considers Satanism as a possible theory for a crime he is not considered a whack job, as a prosecutor in the US would be. Italy has a history of those sorts of crimes.

It should also be understood what is meant by 'Satanism' in Italy. It doesn't necessarily mean a full blown Satanic cult of serious practitioners that have black mass every week. Often, it's youths playing at it because they think it sounds cool and it's rebellious. For them, it's just a game. In the course of their trying to rebel, they commit a terrible crime.

I agree, what has happened to Mignini has been particularly nasty and what has been done to him could have been done to almost any Italian prosecutor. Anyone can have muck racked up about them. His real crime was that he was prosecuting Knox and he handled the investigation. That's it.


To address your last point first, Michael, would Amanda Knox have received as much help from the FOA if Doug Preston had not been involved? It started with the MOF case, and if PM Mignini had not made powerful enemies then, he would not have been vilified so easily.

Regarding Satanism, I agree it is easier for UK and US prosecutors to dismiss cases that even mention the word. Therefore it doesn't help to mention it. But then, how do we define Charles Manson? Have you heard about the Process Church of the Final Judgement? Because I knew them quite well, and will expand on that in my next post.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Ergon wrote:
To address your last point first, Michael, would Amanda Knox have received as much help from the FOA if Doug Preston had not been involved? It started with the MOF case, and if PM Mignini had not made powerful enemies then, he would not have been vilified so easily.


Certainly, Preston was a boon to the FOAKer cause and they were only too happy to take everything he said on face value, as were the US and some elements of the UK media. However, it would be wrong to blame everything on Preston....due credit must also be given to the real puppet master Mario Spezi who had it in for Mignini far more than Preston and in fact was being prosecuted by him. Nobody fact checked or questioned Preston's version of events, it was all accepted as scripture. When Preston's true role in the MOF case was pointed out, for example evidence that he was planting evidence and perverting the case so it would conform to the theory in his and Spezi's book, it was ignored.

Well, certainly, cults are not alien to US culture. You mention Manson, but one only has to also look at Wako and Jimmi Jones. Then there was the bunch that committed suicide when the comet came over. Those are some of the most famous, but there are others. And one can't forget the Church of Scientology.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

(( OT OT ))

This is completely off-topic, but I felt this was one of the most important things I'd heard in a very long time and is great news for everyone! A cure for tooth decay has been found! It's a simple mouthwash that targets only those bacteria that cause tooth decay and one application leaves the mouth free of the bacteria that cause tooth decay for at least four days!


New mouthwash may render cavities a thing of the past
Nov 16, Health

(Medical Xpress) -- A new mouthwash developed by a microbiologist at the UCLA School of Dentistry is highly successful in targeting the harmful Streptococcus mutans bacteria that is the principal cause tooth decay and cavities.

In a recent clinical study, 12 subjects who rinsed just one time with the experimental mouthwash experienced a nearly complete elimination of the S. mutans bacteria over the entire four-day testing period. The findings from the small-scale study are published in the current edition of the international dental journal Caries Research.

Dental caries, commonly known as tooth decay or cavities, is one of the most common and costly infectious diseases in the United States, affecting more than 50 percent of children and the vast majority of adults aged 18 and older. Americans spend more than $70 billion each year on dental services, with the majority of that amount going toward the treatment of dental caries.

This new mouthwash is the product of nearly a decade of research conducted by Wenyuan Shi, chair of the oral biology section at the UCLA School of Dentistry. Shi developed a new antimicrobial technology called STAMP (specifically targeted anti-microbial peptides) with support from Colgate-Palmolive and from C3-Jian Inc., a company he founded around patent rights he developed at UCLA; the patents were exclusively licensed by UCLA to C3-Jian. The mouthwash uses a STAMP known as C16G2.

The human body is home to millions of different bacteria, some of which cause diseases such as dental caries but many of which are vital for optimum health. Most common broad-spectrum antibiotics, like conventional mouthwash, indiscriminately kill both benign and harmful pathogenic organisms and only do so for a 12-hour time period.

The overuse of broad-spectrum antibiotics can seriously disrupt the body's normal ecological balance, rendering humans more susceptible to bacterial, yeast and parasitic infections.

Shi's Sm STAMP C16G2 investigational drug, tested in the clinical study, acts as a sort of "smart bomb," eliminating only the harmful bacteria and remaining effective for an extended period.

Based on the success of this limited clinical trial, C3-Jian Inc. has filed a New Investigational Drug application with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, which is expected to begin more extensive clinical trials in March 2012. If the FDA ultimately approves Sm STAMP C16G2 for general use, it will be the first such anti-dental caries drug since fluoride was licensed nearly 60 years ago.

"With this new antimicrobial technology, we have the prospect of actually wiping out tooth decay in our lifetime," said Shi, who noted that this work may lay the foundation for developing additional target-specific "smart bomb" antimicrobials to combat other diseases.



PHYSORG

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:
We'll be listening: Amanda Knox case reveals extent of Italian wiretapping
By Doug Longhini


CBS NEWS


Longhini and Halderman.

Birds of a feather in the same soiled CBS nest.
Longhini as a laughing stock
Halderman as a convicted and incarcerated felon

The fact that their Amanda always and forever 'productions' made such an impression on the likes of MichellesingsMoore speaks volumes


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

It's just another example of the shocking state of the US media. It's little more then an extension of the corporate, interested only in making money, serving the interests of the establishment and fabricating and spinning news in order to serve those two goals. The good journalists are buried in the slime. All the while, the public are told they have a wonderful media service and the status quo is upheld. The result is all too often, propaganda.

The best thing Americans can do is form an independent news service overseen by a non-profit foundation, for the express purpose of providing independent non-partisan news coverage of national and international issues under old fashioned reporting values, perhaps modeled on the BBC. It would exist for the people and as such would also be answerable to the people, with a fully published code of practice and an independent complaints department.

All true democracies should have such a broadcaster.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Michael wrote:


Well, certainly, cults are not alien to US culture. You mention Manson, but one only has to also look at Wako and Jimmi Jones. Then there was the bunch that committed suicide when the comet came over. Those are some of the most famous, but there are others. And one can't forget the Church of Scientology.


Speaking of the Scientologists, the Process Church influenced Charles Manson and the Son of Sam.
Cults I have known http://manfromatlan.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... wn_15.html

"Toronto was an interesting place in 1970.

I taught meditation, and met many colorful groups: hippies and American draft dodgers, saffron garbed Krishna devotees, and, people in dark Harry Potter robes with embroidered patches of oh yeah, Satan on the one side and silver crosses and the swastika like P logo on the other, belonging to the Process Church of the Final Judgment. I made many friends, and got to know them well, and in the end I could either join the Process "there's this (18 year old) girl who really, really, likes you" or Hare Krishna "here's a tambourine and you can chant all day" I choose neither, of course. My path was not so simple.

The Krishna Consciousness movement was a microcosm of every thing wrong with the ‘Indian guru goes to America and does well’ aspect of the New Age movement and it was, unfortunately, a cult. The focus on raising money, the sexual improprieties and abuse, unbalanced diet and conditions designed to keep people in a state of fatigue and more easily open to suggestion. It fell apart after the death of its founder Swami Prabhupada as his disciples fought amongst themselves.

I know that Swami Prabhupada was motivated by the purpose of bringing Krishna Consciousness to the world. I know he helped many people. I know he was not aware of the abuse, and did not condone it; the allegations came out after his death. They were also true, as several insiders confirmed to me. But that isn’t my point, which is that a focus on matters outside of this world can lead only to imbalances within this one, as I have seen over and over again in all sorts of groups and movements.

The Process Church was even more interesting, read the article and links at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_Church

Led by Robert de Grimston and his wife Mary Anne MacLean, they were a splinter group from Scientology. In 1966, they retreated from the world to Xtul, in the Yucatan peninsula. There, with the aid of various stimuli and psychedelia, they channeled God, aka Jehovah, then, the later aspects Christ, Lucifer and Satan, and stated we all vibrate according to one or the other aspect, and we must eventually integrate all four. They were much perturbed when I said I already integrated all four :) I was a young whippersnapper then.

Having been born out of the various psychoanalytical therapy movements of the 60’s, the Process was widely influential with Rock Stars and in the counter culture movement. The Process eventually fell apart when it turned out they had some connection with multiple killers Charles Manson and Sam Berkowitz, the son of Sam.

I found it interesting they had a secret, undisclosed belief in long ago UFO’s visiting Earth based on the writings of Brinsley Le Poer Trench, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinsley_L ... _Clancarty and http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9923/trench.html and that their
ideology had some resemblance with mine. But I saw also elements of manipulation and control I would never be able to live with.

Yet, for all they might truly believe in an apocalyptical world and that Charles Manson was a sign of the end times, but, there was something beautiful there too, in that even if they got Satan all wrong, they still got God, somewhat right.

THE GODS ON WAR
Robert de Grimston, Process Church of the Final Judgment.
http://feastofhateandfear.com/archives/robert_07.html

Yeow! The reading is a riff on War, and yes it should be read in full, great poetry cannot be summarised but read in its entirety.
But here's the conclusion:

"1.15 Humanity as a whole will not rise above its conflicts. Even if it were to do so it would still destroy all the physical, social and moral structures which it has created, because it would see their total invalidity. But it will not; so the destruction will take place in a chaos and confusion of ignorance, with the vast majority still clinging desperately to their hollow materialistic dreams, even in the depths of their final despair; whilst the few who do rise above the conflicts, will stand aside, separated from the mass, united not within but without the man-made structures of the human game, and linked to a new reality founded not on the laws of men but on the Laws of GOD."

The Process Church reinvented itself as the New Ager Foundation Faith of the Millennium, then as one of America’s most well known Animal Rescue services, the Best Friends Animal Society based in Utah. It pleases me to know that my old friends Brothers Micah and Michael, and Mother Ophelia, who sought so hard in the 60’s and the 70’s to create a better new world, now serve our animal friends. (They were the organization that went in and rescued many animals from New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, and if they ignored the humans, at least they did good, nevertheless)

I lived through tumultuous times and saw how hard people tried to change the corrupt society they lived in. The assassinations of JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King Jr. and John Lennon, the Vietnam War, Kent State and anti-war movement, Che Guevara’s execution, the 1966-68 student riots, the music, the films. We were the idealistic generation, and if some choose to drop out and explore the possibility of a beautiful spiritual alternative, then more power to them."
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

I haven't been able to post for awhile. Prob with my comp ( now fixed) frinds arriving from Australia, Thanksgiving, etc..

Just a quick post to welcome back Michael.....I'm so happy that you're feeling better..you was missed :)

Great news, re the tooth decay article. I'm wondering if it can also be used for pets. It was never a good experience, taking our to the vet for a cleaning, etc. And, it caused suffering, when they couldn't chew on their fave bones.

( sorry, vegans). sor-)

Good for Mignini. He wasn't guilty of anything. I'm sure the groupies are upset, as Michael points out.

( All those responsible for thinking bad things about la_) ..MUST BE PUNISHED.

Give me a break. I'd like to remind them of something.

Pe0ple who tell the truth, don't have trouble REMEMBER ING . n-((

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Offline capealadin


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Highscores: 11

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

Also, I'm wondering. Manders taking these defensive classes. Are people supposed to jump to the conclusion...that.............

It could have been Amanda Knox murdered? Gee, if she'd been in the cottage that night, it would have been her?

It only makes me think : I think her actions protest too much. Patently ridiculous. But as usual, Amanda thinks other people are stupid. She counted on that. wm)

And, do you know? She's not totally wrong. Look how she's hoodwinked the groupies. I bet she has a private laugh about that. Listening to all her supporters. What an angel she is.

However, she knows deep down, what she is. And, what she's done. News alert. There is no rest for the wicked.

Now, she will simply self destruct. The burden of having to pretend..will take it's toll. Family is everything..on her shirt?

Just shows that Amanda has no compassion. It doesn't show that she's family orientated. It just shows a callousness..

Because....MEREDITH had a family. Family was EVERYTHING t her. And, Amanda has torn that family apart.

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Offline stint7


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Posts: 1582

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Also, I'm wondering. Manders taking these defensive classes. Are people supposed to jump to the conclusion...that.............

It could have been Amanda Knox murdered? Gee, if she'd been in the cottage that night, it would have been her?

It only makes me think : I think her actions protest too much. Patently ridiculous. But as usual, Amanda thinks other people are stupid. She counted on that. wm)

And, do you know? She's not totally wrong. Look how she's hoodwinked the groupies. I bet she has a private laugh about that. Listening to all her supporters. What an angel she is.

However, she knows deep down, what she is. And, what she's done. News alert. There is no rest for the wicked.

Now, she will simply self destruct. The burden of having to pretend..will take it's toll. Family is everything..on her shirt?

Just shows that Amanda has no compassion. It doesn't show that she's family orientated. It just shows a callousness..

Because....MEREDITH had a family. Family was EVERYTHING t her. And, Amanda has torn that family apart.


Well said, (as usual) Cape

Interesting latest tactics the fanatical FOAKers now use to keep their la_) so absolutely perfect in all things.

They now try and compare each of Knox's sleazy actions and try to show how the deceased murder victim was just as bad and even worse.
The charges are so horrid, that even reading them brings tears to my eyes.
I definitely will not repeat them here.

But how sad and sick the FOAKer Groupies are to have to resort to making stretched smears against a senselessly murdered young woman...

All this just to try and re write history about their very quirky la_) ,a.k.a the drugged up tart murderess, Amanda Knox


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 22 -   

capealadin wrote:
Also, I'm wondering. Manders taking these defensive classes. Are people supposed to jump to the conclusion...that.............



I think the implication is she's in danger from fanatical anti-Knoxists.

As if.

In view of the behaviour of the Amandii, I think she might want to be careful of the people er, closer to home nin-)
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