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XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Exactly Stefan - don't deserve ANY attention


Gets on my nerves to have to keep having them pointed out here

no point, it just helps them, otherwise they remain in no-man's land and that is FAR better

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Exactly Stefan - don't deserve ANY attention


Gets on my nerves to have to keep having them pointed out here

no point, it just helps them, otherwise they remain in no-man's land and that is FAR better


I understand how upsetting it is, but we have to inform as well.

I don't believe he will ever get a lot of attention due to his own behaviour. It's simply not appealing. Just like Steve Moore and Amanda Knox, he needs a setting where he cannot be challenged otherwise he goes ballistic.

If investigating crimes is his vocation, one has to wonder why he left the FBI.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Exactly Stefan - don't deserve ANY attention


Gets on my nerves to have to keep having them pointed out here

no point, it just helps them, otherwise they remain in no-man's land and that is FAR better


I understand how upsetting it is, but we have to inform as well.

I don't believe he will ever get a lot of attention due to his own behaviour. It's simply not appealing. Just like Steve Moore and Amanda Knox, he needs a setting where he cannot be challenged otherwise he goes ballistic.

If investigating crimes is his vocation, one has to wonder why he left the FBI.



Hi Nell,

Well, I have a different view on people like these, I see no point at all paying them any attention, if it is not a shit like this one it'll be yet another, it's too much to be dealing with every idiot who happens to pop up, fuck them. No good.

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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Exactly Stefan - don't deserve ANY attention


Gets on my nerves to have to keep having them pointed out here

no point, it just helps them, otherwise they remain in no-man's land and that is FAR better


I understand how upsetting it is, but we have to inform as well.

I don't believe he will ever get a lot of attention due to his own behaviour. It's simply not appealing. Just like Steve Moore and Amanda Knox, he needs a setting where he cannot be challenged otherwise he goes ballistic.

If investigating crimes is his vocation, one has to wonder why he left the FBI.


Probably because he gets more money consulting and writing the Criminal minds show - I understood he's one of the writers. And he's apparently worked as a prosecutor too. But I do understand that if he believes blindly in what his friend Moore is telling him no wonder the end result is a 45 minute show with only the innocentisti side being presented + getting quite a lot of the exstablished facts wrong.

Four years ago when I first got interested in this case I might have become really angry and frustrated watching something like that but by now I've calmed down and I suppose got used to the media getting it wrong 50% of the time. I don't also anymore care whether journalists etc. manage to pronounce the names of the people involved in the case properly or not, it's not that relevant. What's relevant is that when one looks at the evidence, there is no other conclusion than that both Sollecito and Knox were involved in the crime.

I wouldn't start arguing with this Clemente chap, it will only convince him more that the colpevolisti side is full of haters etc. It's up to him if he one day wants to look at the case more closely and read the available case docs and then draw his own conclusions. Watching that lip tv show yesterday it was obvious from his consulting his notes all the time that he doesn't know the case at all, he's just repeating "facts" told to him by his good friend Moore (if what you guys here are saying is true, that he's a friend of Moore's).

And I agree with Zorba that we should not pay any attention to them really.

ETA: he really is an expert on child sex abuse (and Criminal Minds consultant etc. - and I see you also had this link yesterday, did not notice):

http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/James_T._Clemente

I think he's a good person misled by Moore. Impossible to think that if he'd had a look into the case independent of Moore, he'd come to the same conclusion as Moore.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi Rumpole,

I did not say Jim Clemente and Steve Moore were friends. Clemente referred to him on Twitter as "his colleague" but it is clear to me that these two did not know each other before. In fact Clemente later tried to contact Steve Moore and his wife over Twitter, so they are neither friends nor colleagues in the strict sense. I suppose he used the term "colleague" loosely because they both share that they have worked for the FBI in the past.

I don't believe Jim Clemente is a misled good person. He does have the tools to understand the case, but he refuses to look at any court documents and instead refers to Douglas Preston's MOF book. His actions are deliberate. He is condescending, arrogant and ignorant. His attitude can only be described as unprofessional.

Unlike others, I am unimpressed with his current work, it doesn't tell us anything about him being good at his job or not.
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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ok, Nell, I misunderstood about there being a friendship. I haven't read the twitter stuff at all (yet). I still think he's intelligent and decent person and if he looked at the case and all the evidence, he could not fail to see all the evidence indicating guilt. Yes, unfortunately he's promoting that MOF book and that latest one as well about Rudy being the forgotten killer. Making himself look like a fool ...

As for him being arrogant etc. quite a lot of people come across like that over the internet when in real life they are totally different. I don't know where I got this link but I think from one of the sites discussing the case, and I agree with this somewhat, regarding comments showing individuals' worst aspects:

Why we don't allow comments

I guess it was this story that was linked somewhere and the reason I ended up there a while ago:

How much we wanted Amanda Knox to get away with it
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Offline Earl Grey


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I hope I might be forgiven for going off topic in this post, but this concerns a subject that is relevant to me and near and dear to my heart. In fact, I'm almost breathless with excitement as I write this. Please brace yourselves.

I've only just learned that... monocles are making a comeback!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-26482529

I have to say that I always felt that they would. It was only a matter of time. Just as a good man can't be kept down for long, neither can a good monocle be kept down. Yes, they truly are that wonderful, not to mention practical and stylish. As a monocle wearer since the tender earlish age of four, I can attest to that.

Thank God that I had the foresight to invest in monocle shares back in '56. You may be sure that I'll be opening a bottle of vintage port tonight in celebration. Well, I would have anyway, but it'll taste all the sweeter now.
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Rumpole wrote:
[...]

I guess it was this story that was linked somewhere and the reason I ended up there a while ago:

How much we wanted Amanda Knox to get away with it

That article was painful to read. I can understand that people want to get away with making mistakes, but when talking about murder I don't have any sympathy for that. What about the victim, who was forcefully robbed of the right to live? What about the people, who were close to the victim? What about the message to society if we let people "get away with murder"?

I want to be clear about this, we are talking about murder, not manslaughter or killing someone in self-defence.

Wikipedia: "Murder" wrote:
Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). A person who commits murder is called a murderer.
"... with malice aforethought ..."

There is no forgiving that, there is no redemption. That is as low as a human being can sink. I am no advocate for the death penalty, but I think some murderers deserve just that. I am getting sick when seeing how overly concerned we are about not hurting any of their rights and always acting within the guidelines. Murderers are scum.

I never wanted to comment about Amanda Knox and her looks, but since they are making this one of their main arguments. She is basically my age (I am 23) and I wouldn't want to spend a minute with her. I don't understand why so many people talk about her beauty and I don't see what sort of difference that would make. How about Justitia wearing a blindfold? It is called objectivity, not some kind of superficial preference.
Talking about Amanda Knox being "normal" and people relating to her... No! I have never related to her and I never felt she was acting normal or a normal person of my age. I can relate to the victim, Meredith Kercher, though, I admire what she stood for and I think she had a great value to society.

The main problem I am having with Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito to mention his name as well, because it isn't just about Amanda really, is that they are both completely lacking self-reflection. They don't look back and realize they did anything wrong, they don't feel sorry for anybody except for themselves. That is exactly why they were able to commit such a violent murder in the first place.
Their behaviour didn't change a bit over the course of nearly seven years now, despite spending four of those years in prison already. That shows how much those individuals are willing to change to the better and become a valuable part of our society. They are living by the funds of some fools, who are dumb enough to feel sorry for those parasites.


P.S. I realize you, Rumpole, aren't supporting this view and I am probably repeating myself on a few aspects, but I am getting sick when I have to read something like that. When I was younger I had a few clashes with other boys and I remember very well how bad I felt when one of them lay on the floor afterwards. I was always a little bigger than other boys of my age and I learned that I had to avoid such conflicts and I didn't even hurt any of them badly since we were all just small boys.
I don't even want to imagine how I would feel if I killed someone and stood over that dead body. I don't feel any sympathy for people, who are capable of such an act.

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
A new "ex-FBI expert" has joined Knox's public media support: Meet Jim Clemente, close with the Moores and thin-skinned Twitter user.

http://youtu.be/B6wiW2iphA4

He said on Twitter he didn't need to read the available court documents, he trusted his colleague Steve Moore. Tells you all you need to know about this character.

He tweeted to Steve Moore at the end of February inviting him to the show Crime Time. A match made in heaven.


Interesting turn of events on twitter yesterday...the wires were smoking!! I think everyone is tired today. pp-(
I am not going to talk it to death...I was there when it happened, so I will share a bit of what I saw.
I think the debate is a good idea. Maybe Ergon can educate Jim with some documents...truth telling..witness statements, time lines, false accusations, phone/computer records, forensics, evolving alibis, PR campaign factoids, abusive tactics by said PR campaign, dis respect to victim and family. What ever else he deems relevant. pp-( pp-( pp-(
Ergon has my full support. Jim is fooling himself if he thinks foul language and angry temperament will aid him. I almost feel sorry for him...but, no. Professor Snape will discipline me...
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Rumpole wrote:
Ok, Nell, I misunderstood about there being a friendship. I haven't read the twitter stuff at all (yet). I still think he's intelligent and decent person and if he looked at the case and all the evidence, he could not fail to see all the evidence indicating guilt. Yes, unfortunately he's promoting that MOF book and that latest one as well about Rudy being the forgotten killer. Making himself look like a fool ...

As for him being arrogant etc. quite a lot of people come across like that over the internet when in real life they are totally different. I don't know where I got this link but I think from one of the sites discussing the case, and I agree with this somewhat, regarding comments showing individuals' worst aspects:

Why we don't allow comments

I guess it was this story that was linked somewhere and the reason I ended up there a while ago:

How much we wanted Amanda Knox to get away with it


Hi Rumpole,

I do not question Mr. Clemente's intelligence, but rather his honesty.

Reading his Twitter profile, he seems to be a perfect match to hysterical Michelle Moore and her attention seeking husband. Clemente also thrives on attention, just like the Moores, but people have already become bored with his stale conspiracy theories.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:21 pm   Post subject: ABOUT PROFILER JIM CLEMENTE'S CHALLENGE TO ME   

I had been debating ex-FBI profiler @JimClemente for some time about the case on Twitter. (My Twitter handle is @manfromatlan) He issued a challenge, much cheered by the FOA, for me to appear on 'his show' and debate him there, with the added comment 'fat chance' I would appear. He didn't provide contact information, or date it would air. After searching around, I only found archived episodes. Here's the 'Media Mayhem' show which Jim Clemente issued a challenge for me to appear in, without actually telling me how. He posted details the day after, March 07. Now we've established communication, I've accepted his challenge, for some time in June. I will be doing so in my own personal capacity.

Once we work out the details, I'll pass it on.

.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Earl Grey wrote:
I hope I might be forgiven for going off topic in this post, but this concerns a subject that is relevant to me and near and dear to my heart. In fact, I'm almost breathless with excitement as I write this. Please brace yourselves.

I've only just learned that... monocles are making a comeback!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-26482529

I have to say that I always felt that they would. It was only a matter of time. Just as a good man can't be kept down for long, neither can a good monocle be kept down. Yes, they truly are that wonderful, not to mention practical and stylish. As a monocle wearer since the tender earlish age of four, I can attest to that.

Thank God that I had the foresight to invest in monocle shares back in '56. You may be sure that I'll be opening a bottle of vintage port tonight in celebration. Well, I would have anyway, but it'll taste all the sweeter now.


Now that you mention it, Earl, I am getting this creeping urge to get myself a monocle too! But that'll have to wait till I get a kilt and learn to play the bagpipe, on my whimsy list :)
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Rumpole wrote:
Ok, Nell, I misunderstood about there being a friendship. I haven't read the twitter stuff at all (yet). I still think he's intelligent and decent person and if he looked at the case and all the evidence, he could not fail to see all the evidence indicating guilt. Yes, unfortunately he's promoting that MOF book and that latest one as well about Rudy being the forgotten killer. Making himself look like a fool ...

As for him being arrogant etc. quite a lot of people come across like that over the internet when in real life they are totally different. I don't know where I got this link but I think from one of the sites discussing the case, and I agree with this somewhat, regarding comments showing individuals' worst aspects:

Why we don't allow comments

I guess it was this story that was linked somewhere and the reason I ended up there a while ago:

How much we wanted Amanda Knox to get away with it


Hi Rumpole,

I do not question Mr. Clemente's intelligence, but rather his honesty.

Reading his Twitter profile, he seems to be a perfect match to hysterical Michelle Moore and her attention seeking husband. Clemente also thrives on attention, just like the Moores, but people have already become bored with his stale conspiracy theories.


In my humble opinion, intelligence does not resort to swearing when confronted with dishonesty.
Twitter is a circus right now...still a good way to get factoids out. Nell is swell o'er there. pp-(
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:36 am   Post subject: Re: ABOUT PROFILER JIM CLEMENTE'S CHALLENGE TO ME   

Ergon wrote:
I had been debating ex-FBI profiler @JimClemente for some time about the case on Twitter. (My Twitter handle is @manfromatlan) He issued a challenge, much cheered by the FOA, for me to appear on 'his show' and debate him there, with the added comment 'fat chance' I would appear. He didn't provide contact information, or date it would air. After searching around, I only found archived episodes. Here's the 'Media Mayhem' show which Jim Clemente issued a challenge for me to appear in, without actually telling me how. He posted details the day after, March 07. Now we've established communication, I've accepted his challenge, for some time in June. I will be doing so in my own personal capacity.

Once we work out the details, I'll pass it on.

.


Thx...I will watch later.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:01 am   Post subject: Re: ABOUT PROFILER JIM CLEMENTE'S CHALLENGE TO ME   

Ergon wrote:
I had been debating ex-FBI profiler @JimClemente for some time about the case on Twitter. (My Twitter handle is @manfromatlan) He issued a challenge, much cheered by the FOA, for me to appear on 'his show' and debate him there, with the added comment 'fat chance' I would appear. He didn't provide contact information, or date it would air. After searching around, I only found archived episodes. Here's the 'Media Mayhem' show which Jim Clemente issued a challenge for me to appear in, without actually telling me how. He posted details the day after, March 07. Now we've established communication, I've accepted his challenge, for some time in June. I will be doing so in my own personal capacity.

Once we work out the details, I'll pass it on.

.


That will be the only episode worth watching then. I couldn't watch the one linked by FOAKers beyond the moment Clemente states the prosecutor testified in the trial.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
A new "ex-FBI expert" has joined Knox's public media support: Meet Jim Clemente, close with the Moores and thin-skinned Twitter user.

http://youtu.be/B6wiW2iphA4

He said on Twitter he didn't need to read the available court documents, he trusted his colleague Steve Moore. Tells you all you need to know about this character.

He tweeted to Steve Moore at the end of February inviting him to the show Crime Time. A match made in heaven.


Clemente is a retired FBI agent, like Steve Moore, and they're both media hounds? Clemente is a behaviour analyst that advises for Criminal Mind TV? Maybe retired FBI agents don't want to interpret the big picture because they can't.

It sounds like Clemente isn't interested in the case if he is not interested in getting up to speed. Perhaps he sees a good movie plot with a framed/falsely accused on Criminal Minds TV ... probably lose most viewers between commercials. Even people without a roof know that you always get three estimates before accepting. Clemente consulted with Moore and ... ?
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

On IA/IIP Bruce Fischer and others have also recognised that Jim Clemente is not up to speed and they are more than willing to help him find the right answers required for the usual talking points.

Some day in March Jim Clemente will join IA/IIP to respond to members questions.

I am not really sure what this event is supposed to be for, after they themselves recognised that they have to help him with the facts of the case.

On Twitter, Jim Clemente insists that for his interpretation he does not need the court documents, but he dismisses the evidence constantly in his comments. In order to do that he would need to look at the expert reports, testimony and court documents to learn from those who actually have seen the evidence. He is unwilling to do that, but at the same time he considers himself as some sort of authority when speaking about the case, which is, given the circumstances, absolutely ridiculous.

Clemente is another drama queen, just like Moore. No idea why he feels the need to join the discussion so late. He has no relevant expertise to add.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Is Knox on some sort of weird media campaign with all these I & All About Me movies? Thankfully none of her selfies make it into mainstream media. Nobody cares to hear Knox and Sollecito complain anymore. They have an opportunity to make something of their lives right now, but if they only spend their time harassing the victim's family, their lawyer, the prosecutor, talking about Meredith's grave, harassing the judge and the Italian Justice system, then the Postal Police, the Carabinieri, forensic analysts, and, at the same time, deeply dwelling on the murder of Meredith Kercher ... for years ... even after released from prison ... occasionally pursuing How to Get Out Of It schemes ... such as marriage contracts with foreigners, and I'm a Famous Writer, and a student, and quirky, and Amelia Bedelia, and pretend you don't notice that Knox/Sollecito reaction to involvement with murder is anything but normal.

Media should not be allowed to influence criminal verdicts any more that religion should be allowed to influence state.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Clemente is a fan of John Douglas, not Steve Moore. IIP needs some sort of recognition to validate their existence.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Not sure if you should even mess with them E... they are not going to be on the up-and-up no matter what. They are not after the truth but for ratings/audience IMO.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

They're offering him 'talking points', he's appearing on a show with them on IA. Nice to see them all have a collective orgasm.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Pistorius vomits in court during post-mortem evidence

Oscars a great actor (maybe with some tricks). Reports he has an "cartoon animal pencil case" the reporters noticed. He seems to be able to react on queue - so much at stake. Oscar infantilising.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
Pistorius vomits in court during post-mortem evidence

Oscars a great actor (maybe with some tricks). Reports he has an "cartoon animal pencil case" the reporters noticed. He seems to be able to react on queue - so much at stake. Oscar infantilising.


I followed the courtroom tweets yesterday. He can vomit all he wants, the facts speak for themselves.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
On IA/IIP Bruce Fischer and others have also recognised that Jim Clemente is not up to speed and they are more than willing to help him find the right answers required for the usual talking points.

Some day in March Jim Clemente will join IA/IIP to respond to members questions.

I am not really sure what this event is supposed to be for, after they themselves recognised that they have to help him with the facts of the case.

On Twitter, Jim Clemente insists that for his interpretation he does not need the court documents, but he dismisses the evidence constantly in his comments. In order to do that he would need to look at the expert reports, testimony and court documents to learn from those who actually have seen the evidence. He is unwilling to do that, but at the same time he considers himself as some sort of authority when speaking about the case, which is, given the circumstances, absolutely ridiculous.

Clemente is another drama queen, just like Moore. No idea why he feels the need to join the discussion so late. He has no relevant expertise to add.


pp-(
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I have no respect for Jim Clemente.

He has made no effort to acquaint himself with the facts of the case; he is happy to regurgitate other people's arguments without checking their veracity.
His tweets are unnecessarily abusive. He considers himself superior and entitled merely because of his FBI career. Although criminal profiling has been mostly discredited, he claims to be an "expert" on this case because of his background in this area.

He has taken a stance and will not be moved.

I can see nothing to be gained by engaging with this man outside the twittersphere.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I disagree, sorry. Those who don't want to engage with them are perfectly within their rights to do so, but a lot of people new to this case might only follow from Twitter. That's why Nell and I have been engaging so much with them lately, because a lie should not be allowed to stand. It should be refuted, replied to. And by engaging with them, they've ended up looking very foolish in comparison. Their lack of knowledge about the case, their rudeness, reflects badly on them.

When people like Michelle Moore is still repeating her husband's lie about John Kercher Jr. being harry rag, well then, they need to be challenged, and I will do that wherever I can.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
On IA/IIP Bruce Fischer and others have also recognised that Jim Clemente is not up to speed and they are more than willing to help him find the right answers required for the usual talking points.

Some day in March Jim Clemente will join IA/IIP to respond to members questions.

I am not really sure what this event is supposed to be for, after they themselves recognised that they have to help him with the facts of the case.

On Twitter, Jim Clemente insists that for his interpretation he does not need the court documents, but he dismisses the evidence constantly in his comments. In order to do that he would need to look at the expert reports, testimony and court documents to learn from those who actually have seen the evidence. He is unwilling to do that, but at the same time he considers himself as some sort of authority when speaking about the case, which is, given the circumstances, absolutely ridiculous.

Clemente is another drama queen, just like Moore. No idea why he feels the need to join the discussion so late. He has no relevant expertise to add.


Was John Douglas one of Jim Clemente' s mentors at the FBI's BAU?

I think that might go a long way toward explaining what we're seeing.

It's a shame what happens to former FBI agents when they decide to pursue a second career either as a hired gun or as a media figure.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jackie wrote:
Nell wrote:
On IA/IIP Bruce Fischer and others have also recognised that Jim Clemente is not up to speed and they are more than willing to help him find the right answers required for the usual talking points.

Some day in March Jim Clemente will join IA/IIP to respond to members questions.

I am not really sure what this event is supposed to be for, after they themselves recognised that they have to help him with the facts of the case.

On Twitter, Jim Clemente insists that for his interpretation he does not need the court documents, but he dismisses the evidence constantly in his comments. In order to do that he would need to look at the expert reports, testimony and court documents to learn from those who actually have seen the evidence. He is unwilling to do that, but at the same time he considers himself as some sort of authority when speaking about the case, which is, given the circumstances, absolutely ridiculous.

Clemente is another drama queen, just like Moore. No idea why he feels the need to join the discussion so late. He has no relevant expertise to add.


Was John Douglas one of Jim Clemente' s mentors at the FBI's BAU?

I think that might go a long way toward explaining what we're seeing.

It's a shame what happens to former FBI agents when they decide to pursue a second career either as a hired gun or as a media figure.


I do not know if John Douglas was Clemente's mentor, but there is a connection. They have been working together in the past.


Criminal Minds Fanatics Blog
John_Douglas: Jim and I are working on a new show for A&E called Profiler. We will be solving real cases in real time. We are working right now with several jurisdictions in the LA area to help them solve difficult and UnSub cases involving violent crimes.

John_Douglas: I am very proud of the people like Jim who have followed in my footsteps. They have taken a good concept and made it an institution.

Jim Clemente has also recommended books written by John Douglas on Twitter.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jackie wrote:
It's a shame what happens to former FBI agents when they decide to pursue a second career either as a hired gun or as a media figure.


It's hard to accept that an agent trained to analyse crime and serve justice could prostitute their talents for money or 'fame'. So sad.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
Jackie wrote:
It's a shame what happens to former FBI agents when they decide to pursue a second career either as a hired gun or as a media figure.


It's hard to accept that an agent trained to analyse crime and serve justice could prostitute their talents for money or 'fame'. So sad.

Steve Moore is a liar. "FBI agent" he uses to give some credibility. NOBODY in media representation of this has lied more than Moore, serially.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
Jackie wrote:
It's a shame what happens to former FBI agents when they decide to pursue a second career either as a hired gun or as a media figure.


It's hard to accept that an agent trained to analyse crime and serve justice could prostitute their talents for money or 'fame'. So sad.


I have read about Jim Clemente on the internet and his expertise seems mostly to be fraud and behavioural science. He has investigated sexual abuse, but I am unsure how much he was involved with analysing physical evidence. The Behavioural Analysis Unit assists the investigation, nothing more. He claims to be better qualified than the experts who personally examined the evidence and have relevant experience in the field.

The vehemency with which these so called experts who support Amanda Knox claim to know better without even looking at the evidence is highly suspicious.


So far, Jim Clemente has claimed that the bra clasp has been contaminated by household dust. While it is correct that household dust has been found to contain minuscule amounts of DNA and since DNA analyising has advanced over the years, scientists question the value of such results for forensic crime analysis.

Clemente has avoided to respond directly to my question why Sollecito's DNA should be present in large enough quantities to contaminate the bra clasp behind a locked door. He visited the cottage only twice. In comparison, the DNA of the roommates who lived there and frequented the cottage on a daily basis, was suspiciously absent. Following his logic, Laura and Filomena's DNA should have been found in abundant amounts at the crime scene, but it was not.

Jim Clemente also claims that forensic police could not have found Laura's and Filomena's DNA, even if it had been present, because they didn't take samples from them. That seems like an odd statement. Police would know if they had found DNA, even if the contributor is unknown.

He also stated repeatedly that the bra clasp had been kicked around for 46 days and stepped on by forensic police. Not only was the house a sealed crime scene, in the video linked by Amanda Knox supporters all you can see is how forensic police picks up the bra clasp and then photographs it. No one ever steps on it. He makes it sound as if there was a continual coming and going in those 46 days where police did nothing except for soiling the evidence items.

I asked him if he had seen the crime scene photo that shows the imprint of Meredith's bra strap in her dried blood. I wanted to know his thoughts about it. So far no response.


There is an older post from Jaybee that has a document attached, originally posted by member MisterPink on .org. It contains data regarding Filomena's DNA.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:19 am   Post subject: ZE BATHMAT SHUFFLE   

Amanda Knox responds to question on her blog and refines her story

Many don't visit Amanda Knox's blog regularly, me included, but someone made me aware of a new version of Amanda Knox's bathmat shuffle story that she published on her blog recently, so I visited and took a screenshot.

For those not interested, please scroll by.


This is the comment Amanda Knox replied to:

Quote:
Boggled says:
February 28, 2014 at 13:50

OK, all sarcasm aside: I am going to make one more try at communicating my position.

Amanda’s stated purpose here is to “…promote discussion of differing views to help anyone and everyone get to the bottom of the truth. I believe we all benefit from everyone’s ability to pinpoint specific objects of inquiry, criticism, and reflection.”

I took Amanda at her word and still have the following questions, for her:

Was Filomena’s door open or closed when you got to the apartment?

Did you take a shower and shuffle down the hall on the bathmat?

With your limited Italian, why did you think the disappearing feces was important enough to try to communicate with the police?

When did you call your mother and what did she tell you?

Did Meredith usually lock her door?

Should Amanda choose not to answer these questions that’s her prerogative. I don’t think readers do her any favor by excoriating me for asking the questions. One reader asked “Why doesn’t Boggled answer any questions?” This is not my blog with the above stated purpose, nor am I interested in someone else responding to my questions to Amanda with disingenuous questions about “the evidence” and the suggestion that the crime scene is comprised only of Meredith’s room.

I happen to believe that Amanda was involved in Meredith’s murder based on the trial transcripts, the motivation reports and my analysis of human behavior. This belief has nothing to do with my like or dislike of Amanda, or with any of the other reasons to which you attribute it. Like, I suspect, most of you, I don’t know Amanda.

My comments about the UW video were not meant as “evidence of guilt” but as observations. My observations, based on a wide range of “normal” human behavior (i.e. I realize that “everyone reacts differently” but there are certain norms), were that some of Amanda’s behaviors fell outside of this range. You may agree or disagree with me, but personal attacks and threats of my future suffering really do nothing to help Amanda.

Several posters wondered why I didn’t “say bad things” about Rudy Guede. While I have nothing good to say about him—he took part in Meredith’s vicious murder—he is locked up. He was found guilty, just as Amanda and Raffaelle have been found guilty, and he is no longer a threat to society.

I am of the opinion that those who would boycott Italy or be wary of study abroad programs in general are out of touch with reality. As such, I have been accused, among many other sins, of “never traveling”. On the contrary, I am an American who has spent more than half of my life living, working and going to school in Europe. Most of that time was spent in Italy. In fact, as I 20-year-old I spent a semester in Rome and encountered no problems whatsoever.

One last observation: I find it ironic that many posters here pour compassion, love and support on Amanda while heaping scorn, disrespect, and even hatred on Meredith’s family. Those of you who do so—can you not imagine how you would feel if Meredith were your sister, your daughter, your niece, your friend? What is happening to our humanity when we will do anything to “win” at the expense of another?

And now we’ll have to agree to disagree. Those involved know what happened, nobody else, and I will content myself with that. Enjoy the weekend. Over and out.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hello everybody,

good news: Nencini has appeared before the First Commission of the CSM today, and it has decided to close the case against him. cl-) Must be a bad day for the Sollecito camp.

Nencini, case dismissed

The storm around the Judge for giving an interview immediately after the verdict has ended

The First Commission of the CSM is going to close the procedure on Alessandro Nencini, the President of the Florence court that sentenced Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito for the murder of Meredith Kercher, finishing the storm for some statements to the press, after the sentence. This position has emerged after hearing the judge.


LA REPUBBLICA (FIRENZE)

Meredith: the CSM rules on the judge, case to be archived

Rome - The First Commission of the CSM is going to close the case on the president of the court that convicted Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito for the murder of Meredith Kercher, Alessandro Nencini, finishing the storm that erupted for some statements to the press, after the verdict. The orientation has emerged after hearing the judge.

Nencini was interviewed for an hour by directors. He reiterated first of all, as he had done when the controversy broke out, that there was no "pre-arranged" interview, but only a short interview with some journalists met by chance in the corridors of the Palace of Justice, which had asked questions about a long period of deliberations (12 hours) in the council chamber.

He also ruled out that he had anticipated the reasons for the decision (to convict), denying some reconstructions of his words, such as those relating to the motive of the murder (a "thing between young people"). He also argued that he had never expressed an opinion on the strategies of Raffaele Sollecito's defense, not to subject him to questioning during the trial, a choice that Nencini had commented to reporters, talking about a "right of the accused " but that "it deprived the subject of a voice."

The hearing will be transcribed in the next few days and probably next week, the Commission will formalize its decision. The underlying reason is that Nencini's statements to the press may be inconvenient but they are not sufficient to justify the initiation of a transfer of office.

With the possible dismissal of the case by CSM, however, the trouble for the Florentine magistrate would not end as both the Minister of Justice and the PG of the Supreme Court have launched investigations on the case, which may lead to the exercise of disciplinary action against him.


IL SECOLO XIX
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Great news, guermantes. Thanks for sharing! :)

By the way, Nell, there are several more replies like that. If you are interested you should spend some time scrolling through the comment sections of her blog. But they don't offer much, the only thing you see is that she is still "refining" her story as you put it.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

10 March 2014
Amanda Knox Case Strains Sister City Bond Between Seattle and Perugia
By Zachary Stieber

Seattle and Perugia, Italy are sister cities, and the relationship was strained by the Amanda Knox case.
The relationship doesn’t include specific rules and is meant to foster cultural exchange and lifelong personal connections.


THE EPOCH TIMES

7 March 2014
Sisters forever? Lurid murder case tests sister-city bonds
The Amanda Knox case and a new push to revive a stymied sister-city program
By Ron Judd

But there’s no official handbook, and if there were, it likely would contain little advice about what to do when it all goes terribly wrong. Like when high authorities in your sister city of Perugia, in Italy’s Umbria region, brand one of Seattle’s daughters — a hapless exchange student — as a satanic, sex-obsessed “she-devil” who helped slaughter her own roommate, apparently just for fun.


THE SEATTLE TIMES
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
Great news, guermantes. Thanks for sharing! :)

By the way, Nell, there are several more replies like that. If you are interested you should spend some time scrolling through the comment sections of her blog. But they don't offer much, the only thing you see is that she is still "refining" her story as you put it.


Thank you Stefan for letting me know. If her comments don't add anything new, I will pass.

Her comments are an insult to everyone's intelligence. I don't enjoy reading them.

Should anyone spot anything important, please let me know, I am not a regular visitor of her blog.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

In case we get a whole lot of shite about 'sperm stains', then Guilter Watchin' just posted this report by Professor Vinci which amazingly, ain't on herself's site yet. And it seems like it was only put up on IIP recently? BTW, not observed under a 'low powered microscope' as some say, but, a 'crimescope' :)


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here's Professor Vinci's 'presentation' to the AAFS conference in Seattle Feb. 17-22, 2014. A search of their program doesn't show him as a featured speaker, but you never know. Already well-known for stretching the bathmat photos to exonerate Sollecito, he's doing the same to the knife imprint on the bed too, and there's more about the 'sperm stain' that Massei and Nencini wouldn't test to his satisfaction. What a dodgy character!

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
On IA/IIP Bruce Fischer and others have also recognised that Jim Clemente is not up to speed and they are more than willing to help him find the right answers required for the usual talking points.

Some day in March Jim Clemente will join IA/IIP to respond to members questions.

I am not really sure what this event is supposed to be for, after they themselves recognised that they have to help him with the facts of the case.

On Twitter, Jim Clemente insists that for his interpretation he does not need the court documents, but he dismisses the evidence constantly in his comments. In order to do that he would need to look at the expert reports, testimony and court documents to learn from those who actually have seen the evidence. He is unwilling to do that, but at the same time he considers himself as some sort of authority when speaking about the case, which is, given the circumstances, absolutely ridiculous.

Clemente is another drama queen, just like Moore. No idea why he feels the need to join the discussion so late. He has no relevant expertise to add.


It must be noted that calling Jim a drama queen causes him to lose his cool. Easy that. Further, I think that Jim stepped into it by hounding Ergon for debate...something I am pretty sure scares FOA...cause Jim can't go more than 5 minutes without blowing his stack.
I commend Nell for the was in which she deals with Jim... pp-(
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
I disagree, sorry. Those who don't want to engage with them are perfectly within their rights to do so, but a lot of people new to this case might only follow from Twitter. That's why Nell and I have been engaging so much with them lately, because a lie should not be allowed to stand. It should be refuted, replied to. And by engaging with them, they've ended up looking very foolish in comparison. Their lack of knowledge about the case, their rudeness, reflects badly on them.

When people like Michelle Moore is still repeating her husband's lie about John Kercher Jr. being harry rag, well then, they need to be challenged, and I will do that wherever I can.


This is where I agree with Nell and Ergon...counter the endless bs, so that our efforts thus far are not diminished. The posters who are left to argue, more often than not reveal their true intent rather quick... Indeed, it is a sad display.
I thank the many wonderful folk who post links to the truth.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

tamale wrote:
Ergon wrote:
I disagree, sorry. Those who don't want to engage with them are perfectly within their rights to do so, but a lot of people new to this case might only follow from Twitter. That's why Nell and I have been engaging so much with them lately, because a lie should not be allowed to stand. It should be refuted, replied to. And by engaging with them, they've ended up looking very foolish in comparison. Their lack of knowledge about the case, their rudeness, reflects badly on them.

When people like Michelle Moore is still repeating her husband's lie about John Kercher Jr. being harry rag, well then, they need to be challenged, and I will do that wherever I can.


This is where I agree with Nell and Ergon...counter the endless bs, so that our efforts thus far are not diminished. The posters who are left to argue, more often than not reveal their true intent rather quick... Indeed, it is a sad display.
I thank the many wonderful folk who post links to the truth.


Anyone who reads back will find that I avoided sites like JREF, HuffPo and Twitter to engage with them. Sometimes what was posted there came up here and when I had a look, I was usually shocked by the comments posted from Amanda Knox supporters. So I stayed away.

But over the time, I changed my mind about it and became more active online.

I agree with Ergon and Tamale that the lies need to be refuted. Amanda Knox's family have gotten away with it for far too long.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

That might be the problem IMO- we want the truth told... they want publicity.

They don't dare get in the public (without censor) in a truth/fact debate. They can't IMO.

If it happens tho, you have our full support as usual.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

If we didn't track and engage with them, how could we have come up with the stuff we did? But, thanks for the support, dgfred.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Well, according to what he is saying so far... just read IIP. His answers are basically the same as theirs. In fact he is spouting the nonsense there right now.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

What he's saying on Twitter is a lot more clear. He feels that a) his profiling indicates AK and RS are NOT guilty, and b) he's reading the case file now to do a legal analysis.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

If you read some on IIP you can tell where he is going.

Ask him on twitter if he has profiled AK's previous prank and RS turnip/cocaine/violent comic/knife fetishes. Has he observed their behavior lately?

Crooked and egotistical Mignini. Luminol not effective for this case. Corrupt/shoddy investigation and collection. Same old same old IMO.

Not worth your valuable time IMO.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This questioning event had no other purpose in my opinion than giving him a roadmap to the common talking points.

A few of Jim Clemente's responses. Some of them are preposterous and lack professionality.

"Like the story purported by the Ramseys to cover up the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey, a case like you just described has never happened before and has never happened since. It is PURE PROSECUTORIAL FANTASY!"

"In my opinion Mignini is an ego-maniacal criminal of the grandest proportions. He has repeatedly led a prosecution fraught with incompetence, lies and criminal behavior. He should be prosecuted for his criminal behavior in this case and reprosecuted for his criminal behavior in the Monster of Florence case."

"I'm no celebrity but my mentor John Douglas is and he independently analyzed the case and came to the same conclusions as Steve Moore and I. I'm not sure about other celebrities, but that may be a good idea. I'll look into it. Causes need a good public figure spokesperson. Thanks!"

"This concept is born out of their intense desire NOT to have Guede be the focus of the investigation and media attention.
It is absurd to think that one man could not have committed this crime alone. ALL OF THE EVIDENCE PROVES THIS IS THE CASE.
I would have taken the stand and recited hundreds of cases in which lone men have done virtually the same thing.
I would have explained in detail how the scene tells the true story and I'd explain it to them in detail.
Then I would have explained why the theory of AK and RS participating in this murder/rape is absurd. Behaviorally it has never happened before or since and forensically it is not borne out by the evidence. Especially, in light of the fact that they left no traces of themselves in the room or on the victim."


"I'm not certain if your facts are exactly correct but if they are… We know AK took a shower in the bathroom where Guede cleaned up after the murder/rape. There was at least one bare footprint made by Guede in that bathroom and he very likely dripped and cast off other traces of MKs blood and body fluids. AK very likely stepped in them with her bare feet which would have left some of MKs DNA in certain spots of her footprints."

"Luminol testing on its own is not determinative. You have to follow it up to determine the true nature of the substance the print was made in. However, it can be a part of telling the whole story. Such as in this case, where it confirms that AK did in fact take a shower just like she said she did."

"This is an awesome Question!!!
Staging IS something that you should ALWAYS look for in a crime scene. But it is almost always only done by those who have a connection to the victim or the crime scene. Crime Scene reconstruction requires precise and comprehensive documentation of the scene, no cross-contamination, and forensic testing of all of the evidence. Unfortunately, these things were not done properly in this case. Had the glass been tested, they could have determined that the rock in fact came from the outside. And since the eye-witness saw a black man leaving the apartment and did not see him throwing a rock at the time, it would have proven when and how RG broke in. However, the forensic evidence (pics of the chip in the outside facing part of the inner shutter with embedded rock in it) and the rock's location itself show that the rock was in fact thrown from outside and it coincides with RGs MO in recent burglaries. In this case there is no evidence of staging. There is only evidence of incompetent evidence collection and investigation, compounded by lies, ego and crimes committed by the investigative and prosecution team."
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
tamale wrote:
Ergon wrote:
I disagree, sorry. Those who don't want to engage with them are perfectly within their rights to do so, but a lot of people new to this case might only follow from Twitter. That's why Nell and I have been engaging so much with them lately, because a lie should not be allowed to stand. It should be refuted, replied to. And by engaging with them, they've ended up looking very foolish in comparison. Their lack of knowledge about the case, their rudeness, reflects badly on them.

When people like Michelle Moore is still repeating her husband's lie about John Kercher Jr. being harry rag, well then, they need to be challenged, and I will do that wherever I can.


This is where I agree with Nell and Ergon...counter the endless bs, so that our efforts thus far are not diminished. The posters who are left to argue, more often than not reveal their true intent rather quick... Indeed, it is a sad display.
I thank the many wonderful folk who post links to the truth.


Anyone who reads back will find that I avoided sites like JREF, HuffPo and Twitter to engage with them. Sometimes what was posted there came up here and when I had a look, I was usually shocked by the comments posted from Amanda Knox supporters. So I stayed away.

But over the time, I changed my mind about it and became more active online.

I agree with Ergon and Tamale that the lies need to be refuted. Amanda Knox's family have gotten away with it for far too long.


pp-(
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
In case we get a whole lot of shite about 'sperm stains', then Guilter Watchin' just posted this report by Professor Vinci which amazingly, ain't on herself's site yet. And it seems like it was only put up on IIP recently? BTW, not observed under a 'low powered microscope' as some say, but, a 'crimescope' :)

I don't have any knowledge of the Italian language and I can't find an english translation of this report. What exactly are they trying to imply with that alleged semen stain?


excerpt from Injustice in Perugia wrote:
Evidence on Pillowcase

There is a possible semen stain that was found on the pillow under Meredith's body. The defense is requesting that testing be done on this stain. It was originally stated by the court that the stain could not be dated because Meredith was sexually active so there was no reason to test it. Forensics expert Francesco Vinci found this same substance smeared in one of Rudy's shoe prints on the pillow. This proves this substance was wet at the time of the murder so it must have been deposited on the pillow at that time. This discovery was made using Crimescope. Why wasn't this substance tested to begin with? The investigators were presented with a murder with sexual assault and they neglected to test a substance that appears to be semen. If this substance tests positive for semen and it is attributed to Rudy, the entire theory made by the prosecution would be further proven false. The photo below shows the substance on the pillow smeared in one of Rudy's shoe prints.

Image

The defense is asking for further investigation of Mario Joseph Alessi. Alessi is a prison inmate that claims to have had confidential conversations with Rudy Guede. During these conversations, Guede allegedly discusses sexual acts that could be attributed to the stains left on the pillow. The defense argues that Alessi’s statements contain details of the crime that only Guede would have known. These details confirm that these discussions actually took place. In light of this testimony, it is imperative that further testing be done on the substance found on the pillow.


Obviously, just by looking at it I can't say if that is indeed semen. Also, I immediately thought who knows when it was left there. According to Injustice in Perugia Prof. Vinci found the same substance of the stain smeared in one of Rudy Guede's footprints and he concluded it was deposited on the pillow at the time of the murder. But even in this case I wonder how this is supposed to help Raffaele Sollecito (and Amanda Knox?).

As far as I know there are vaginal swabs of Meredith Kercher and they found Rudy Guede's DNA, but there weren't any traces of semen. I have heard to be careful when having sexual intercourse since your penis might release small amounts of semen even before the ejaculation. That's why I would assume that Rudy Guede didn't penetrate the victim with his penis, but rather with his hand.
Now, why should there be Rudy Guede's semen on the pillow? Only options are him penetrating the victim with his penis and finally ejaculating on the pillow or masturbating during the assault. Either way I don't see any valuable information from this and I don't see how this is going "to further prove the entire theory of the prosecution false".

The only helpful information from the perspective of the defence would be if testing revealed the semen stain to be from someone else. But then again there is no evidence for the presence of someone else beside the three accused during the assault. It could have been left there prior to the assault and subsequent murder.

What is the point really? I don't see any value in testing this alleged semen stain.

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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Since every video of Jim Clemente has been posted this far, I figure this one can't be excluded. I love the fact that they are forming a duo now. I assume Steve Moore is refused by every other TV station and has to settle for this series now to promote his book and his quest for justice.

I have to admit Steve Moore is quite convincing if you don't have any knowledge of the case transcripts. I am about 20 minutes in to the video and he talked about his experience and the crime scene being completely disorganized to count out the possibilty of a clean-up. I guess he must have forgotten about the bathroom. :roll:


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Last edited by Stefan on Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, Stefan, Professor Vinci's theories are based on the crime scope pictures, not an actual physical exam of the pillow case or suspected 'semen stains'. Even the possibility that Rudy tracked those spots is conjecture: assuming the shoeprint IS RG's, it is no where near the stains which you would expect as his shoes had blood on them. How could he have tracked 'semen' then? This is where the Amandii show their intellectual dishonesty, when 'other substances' are not possible now? They already proved their dishonesty with the stretched bathmat photos that got pointed out in court, the finagling of the knife photos and suppression and selective release of crime files which they always had access to until we got our own sources. The sperm presentation was released again in time of Vinci's appearance at the Seattle AAFS conference in February and serves no purpose IMO except to keep their dwindling group of supporters together; more examples of Italian perfidy/prosecutorial malfeasance (Just call me Thesaurus Rex :)

But one thing struck me, the willingness of some Amandii to throw Raffaele under the bus. When I challenged one on Twitter, she was quite ready to accept the sperm was Raffaele's. That is so strange, as if that somehow would exculpate Amanda? One thing is clear, having watched them for a while. There's a massive hate on for Rafaele Sollecito now, because he's 'distanced himself' from Mandy.
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, Stefan, Professor Vinci's theories are based on the crime scope pictures, not an actual physical exam of the pillow case or suspected 'semen stains'. Even the possibility that Rudy tracked those spots is conjecture: assuming the shoeprint IS RG's, it is no where near the stains which you would expect as his shoes had blood on them. How could he have tracked 'semen' then? This is where the Amandii show their intellectual dishonesty, when 'other substances' are not possible now? They already proved their dishonesty with the stretched bathmat photos that got pointed out in court, the finagling of the knife photos and suppression and selective release of crime files which they always had access to until we got our own sources. The sperm presentation was released again in time of Vinci's appearance at the Seattle AAFS conference in February and serves no purpose IMO except to keep their dwindling group of supporters together; more examples of Italian perfidy/prosecutorial malfeasance (Just call me Thesaurus Rex :)

But one thing struck me, the willingness of some Amandii to throw Raffaele under the bus. When I challenged one on Twitter, she was quite ready to accept the sperm was Raffaele's. That is so strange, as if that somehow would exculpate Amanda? One thing is clear, having watched them for a while. There's a massive hate on for Rafaele Sollecito now, because he's 'distanced himself' from Mandy.

I figured he didn't personally examine the pillow. I get the idea of what they are trying to achieve with this, it is basically the same that Jim Clemente and Steve Moore are producing - discredit Italy, their judical system and especially their biased prosecution. That video I posted above is another example of that, I found a few parts quite entertaining. Steve Moore even repeated his informant theory and further explored the idea to explain the coerced confession of Amanda Knox.

But I am insusceptible to these discrediting attempts, what I care about is evidence. So, when they bring something up or are trying to raise the attention to something that might have been left out I ask about the purpose of that evidence. I certainly don't see any in this stain, very much like the alleged starch on the murder weapon.

Her groupies are so unworldly, it seems like all they care for is Amanda Knox being free by any means necessary, even if she committed that murder.

A little while ago I was still worried about the media portrait of this case, but I learned recently that the support for them is very weak. I think the problem was that no one really cared about them anymore since most people are convinced that they are guilty and just waiting for their arrests - but AK, RS and their media campaigns were still trying to stay active thus dominating the public image for a very long time. This led me to believe there was a possibility of them getting away with murder, but I dropped those concerns.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks to all our efforts, the media is learning to tread warily, Stefan. Show their bias and the public, which doesn't trust them anyway, turns to alternative media. And the likes of Steve Moore blow themselves up without any assistance on our part :)
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Thanks to all our efforts, the media is learning to tread warily, Stefan. Show their bias and the public, which doesn't trust them anyway, turns to alternative media. And the likes of Steve Moore blow themselves up without any assistance on our part :)
It's true..thank you one and all. RIP Meredith kercher. pp-(
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
Since every video of Jim Clemente has been posted this far, I figure this one can't be excluded. I love the fact that they are forming a duo now. I assume Steve Moore is refused by every other TV station and has to settle for this series now to promote his book and his quest for justice.

I have to admit Steve Moore is quite convincing if you don't have any knowledge of the case transcripts. I am about 20 minutes in to the video and he talked about his experience and the crime scene being completely disorganized to count out the possibilty of a clean-up. I guess he must have forgotten about the bathroom. :roll:



Thank you for linking the video Stefan.

I have just started watching it and what I noticed is that when Steve Moore is asked how he became involved he says through his job on Pepperdine, monitoring a campus in Florence and following the news. Not a word about his crazy wife.

EDIT:
Watching the video further, he brings up his wife and his challenge to prove her wrong which results in him believing Knox to be innocent.

However, it's the first time he claims to have been following the case before his wife made him aware of it and the first time he brings Pepperdine into it.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
What he's saying on Twitter is a lot more clear. He feels that a) his profiling indicates AK and RS are NOT guilty, and b) he's reading the case file now to do a legal analysis.


If he wants to bolster the results of his profiling, perhaps he should try phrenology. I hear it is just as effective.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox asking for translators for court documents. https://twitter.com/amamaknox/status/445672495169798144 A bit late, I think.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Perhaps Knox is going to the ECtHR with an argument similar to this criminal:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... today.html
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Looking through old Frank Sfarzo pieces http://web.archive.org/web/201103310813 ... gspot.com/

How did every one know by March 25, 2011 there was “no DNA on the knife”? Conti and Vechiotti only had it for 3 days!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hey peeps...

Uffa..I'm here. New phone.......crikey. I'm still trying to figure it out:(..AND probs with my computer)......I will have to read up now that I have a bit of time.

See you later.

Cheers......

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Offline Tiziano


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Amanda Knox asking for translators for court documents. https://twitter.com/amamaknox/status/445672495169798144 A bit late, I think.


Attachment:
Bleach.png


Well that was putting it concisely!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Strange that she uses a free gmail account when the common way to do it is to create an email account with your own domain, like info@amandaknox.com for example. It does not cost you anything extra. She's already paying for it.

A bit unprofessional.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Popper makes an excellent point on .org.

Quote:
Re: LaKnox asks for translators
by Popper » 19 Mar 2014, 04:22

Tiziano wrote:
LaKnox has been on Twitter asking for translators. That request elicited a very succinct reply from one Diego de Léon.

Bleach.png


that only demonstrates that Mr no moore and all the other FOA never translated anything, they were just acting and talking on the basis of nothing


It makes you wonder how people like Steve Moore and Jim Clemente can say with a straight face that they "examined" the evidence and came to their own conclusions.

Steve Moore went as far as lying to Paul Callan's face on CNN's OutFront, saying he had been attending the trial hearings, implying he had been there for the whole trial or a great part of it. We know he was only there for a few days to pick up Amanda Knox. On that occasion his wife managed to get herself detained by police for shouting insults at prosecutor Mignini. She was removed from the courtroom and not allowed back in.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Not only is it unprofessional, it's funny, to see her tag team of comic wrestlers come in on twitter and chastise McCall for not translating every last piece of testimony on the Wiki when it was she who withheld the testimony in the first place.

One thing I used to respect Rose Montague for (though you still could see her contortions to avoid cognitive dissonance re guilt) is she argued for full disclosure of the evidence file more than two years ago (and was voted down)

You still can also see it was PMF's translators they relied on, and then mostly Google, for some of the major translations they put up. (Though I do wish we had our own copy of the Conti-Vechiotti Report, I don't see any problems with their translation, Komponisto did a good job IMO on what was a technical report after all.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here's something everyone needs to understand. The FOAKers always wanted to make as little information as possible public, and then only what they deemed may help Knox appear innocent. The reason, and ONLY reason, that the FOAKers started making complete documents public (along with tidied-up Google translations presented as proper professional translations) was to compete with PMF and TJMK. We were rendering proper translations as well as publishing all the original documentation we could lay our hands on. This made us the one-stop place for case data and it rendered the pro-Knox sites virtually irrelevant for those wishing to do any deep learning about the case. They needed to compete with us (and everyone will also note that they've tended to (poorly) copy us in almost everything we've done as it's us that has set the standard) and since we were making the docs public anyway, they decided they'd jump on the bandwagon and publish documents too, kicking and screaming, yet claiming magnanimously that they were happy to do so. But, were it not for us and had they been left to have things all their own way, they would have published next to nothing and what little they would have published would have been tampered with. Thanks to the efforts of the pro-victim sites, the public case landscape is now very different to what it would have been had it been left to them. If we leave any legacy in regard to the case it is this.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Don't want to post her picture, but does anyone recognize the make of Knox's bike here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rcher.html

It appears to be a custom made Italian :) racing bike.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Exactly Stefan - don't deserve ANY attention


Gets on my nerves to have to keep having them pointed out here

no point, it just helps them, otherwise they remain in no-man's land and that is FAR better


I understand how upsetting it is, but we have to inform as well.

I don't believe he will ever get a lot of attention due to his own behaviour. It's simply not appealing. Just like Steve Moore and Amanda Knox, he needs a setting where he cannot be challenged otherwise he goes ballistic.

If investigating crimes is his vocation, one has to wonder why he left the FBI.


I tried to fav this..haha. pp-(
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Here's something everyone needs to understand. The FOAKers always wanted to make as little information as possible public, and then only what they deemed may help Knox appear innocent. The reason, and ONLY reason, that the FOAKers started making complete documents public (along with tidied-up Google translations presented as proper professional translations) was to compete with PMF and TJMK. We were rendering proper translations as well as publishing all the original documentation we could lay our hands on. This made us the one-stop place for case data and it rendered the pro-Knox sites virtually irrelevant for those wishing to do any deep learning about the case. They needed to compete with us (and everyone will also note that they've tended to (poorly) copy us in almost everything we've done as it's us that has set the standard) and since we were making the docs public anyway, they decided they'd jump on the bandwagon and publish documents too, kicking and screaming, yet claiming magnanimously that they were happy to do so. But, were it not for us and had they been left to have things all their own way, they would have published next to nothing and what little they would have published would have been tampered with. Thanks to the efforts of the pro-victim sites, the public case landscape is now very different to what it would have been had it been left to them. If we leave any legacy in regard to the case it is this.


Yes, Michael..exactly. Public perception is changing dramatically. We are challenging all bulls..t. So many posters with dogged persistence. A new day has dawned...the agenda of the damned is crumbling. Thanks everybody...we are finally achieving justice For Meredith and her family. Soon... pp-(
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Further to looking into the increasingly curious timing of all interactions between Boise State U. Professor Greg Hampikian and the Hellman courts ‘independent experts’ Conti and Vecchiotti, I see that even though they leaked their findings in March 2011, they spent all of April 2011 demanding the ‘raw EDF files’ from Drssa. Stefanoni, this after Prof. Hampikian impressed upon the defense team “how important it was to get a copy of the raw data files”.

Proof of illegal contact? We shall see, once the investigation of C & V gets under way.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Re. Jim Clemente and Bruce Fischer's & Sarah Snyder's "Special Event"


A recent visit to IA revealed that the great Q&A event with Jim Clemente lasted only an hour or so. He replied to 8 whole questions and that was it. People over there wondered where he went and kept asking questions, but Clemente had already left without saying goodbye.

Since then, he has never looked back as his forum profile reveals.

Image


For an event that was artificially hyped by Bruce Fischer and Sarah Snyder on Twitter as well as their own forum, advertised as the big next thing, to describe the result as underwhelming is an understatement. Another failure they can add to their profiles.

Image


What amuses me is that not even the event organiser knew what exactly the agreement was. Here are a few screenshots of Sarah Snyder's comments in which she basically admits she is clueless.

Image

Image


Just like Amanda Knox's book that faded into obscurity on her own supporters website fairly quickly, you will not hear much praise on Injustice in Perugia / Injustice Anywhere about Jim Clemente either. Some even went so far to say he doesn't add much as in their view Steve Moore has covered everything already. The groupies don't sound too excited.


Besides showing his ignorance about the most basic facts of the case, he retweets Michelle Moore, adding foolish comments, and he has confirmed Steve Moore's conspiracy theory about Rudy Guede being a police informant and that the Perugian police asked their colleagues in Milan to release him.

Image

Image
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

tamale wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Exactly Stefan - don't deserve ANY attention


Gets on my nerves to have to keep having them pointed out here

no point, it just helps them, otherwise they remain in no-man's land and that is FAR better


I understand how upsetting it is, but we have to inform as well.

I don't believe he will ever get a lot of attention due to his own behaviour. It's simply not appealing. Just like Steve Moore and Amanda Knox, he needs a setting where he cannot be challenged otherwise he goes ballistic.

If investigating crimes is his vocation, one has to wonder why he left the FBI.


I tried to fav this..haha. pp-(


Ha ha. Too much Twitter? Happens to me all the time!

People are starting to lose their faith in the FBI by reading Jim Clemente's and Steve Moore's comment about the case. I wonder why that is?
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
[...]

People are starting to lose their faith in the FBI by reading Jim Clemente's and Steve Moore's comment about the case. I wonder why that is?

From watching movies and some documentaries I always thought only a very selected few were allowed to apply and of those only a handful manage to succesfully complete the entrance tests to earn the honor of calling themselves members of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. But then you see Steve Moore on TV repeatedly pointing his finger at Paul Callan while yelling out "Prove me wrong!" and you see Jim Clemente, who seems to be even brighter than Steve Moore since he doesn't even have to read any case related documents for his profound conclusions about the obvious wrongdoings of the prosecution in another country, calling all the guilters, haters and naysayers out with names, because they dare to doubt his god-like credentials.

Imagining those two grounded individuals with a gun in their hand makes me scared.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

By the way. Ergon, is that in fact you posting on AK's blog as "Nasim" ?

Attachment:
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, all. I Googled Jim Clemente and spent some time reviewing some of the interviews he gave on HLN with regard to Jodi Arias. (Not posting links).

He comes across with an attitude of what I can only call "condescending arrogance". In his opinion, Arias, a pretty, young, lying white girl is GUILTY, and he seems almost gleeful when he addresses her psychopathy, IMO.

Wouldn't this attitude earn him the definition of 'hater'?

I'm personally glad that you're going to debate him, Ergon. I only hope that you have a visual on him when he is speaking. He has the same 'tell' as Knox. I wonder if he has ever done any self-profiling? I'm certainly not accusing him of any criminal behavior, but I bet he has some issues.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi Stefan, thanks for bringing to my attention. No, it isn't me, so I guess 'Nasim' will have to speak up for himself or herself, it's a name that can be of either sex.

Like my name,
Naseer ;)

I have never posted on AK's blog, under any name. I was asked this (before your time) and said no I wasn't, so he should know, but ol' Bruce never was one to stop repeating his unproven passive aggressive assertions, like how Professor Vinci 'shredded' the prosecution. Like Napoleon did at Waterloo, I guess :)

Bruce Fischer, as co-admin of the pro-Amanda Knox site Injustice-Anywhere knows full well I don't 'run' PMF .Net. I am only one volunteer on a team of moderators, admins, and contributors who make up this site and are part of the larger pro-Meredith Kercher community. He has tried to malign the arguments made here by attacking me personally, and if some fall for that, not my problem.

Another person, who goes by the name Betty_Ninja on Twitter, tried that tack recently,
Quote:
but doesn't translate testimony he links on his (emphasis mine) website for Meredith
and I try to avoid her unless she addresses me directly, especially as everyone knows Ed McCall started the Meredith Kercher Wiki, and I am just one of the contributors there. But anyhow, the record shows the pro-Amanda crowd, never let facts get in their way when they lose the argument, they attack the person. And, one more time, I am not Meredith's uncle (though I'd have been proud to be) or related to or know the Kerchers in any way. Nor am I 'harryrag' though I do admire his badgering ways, and I say that as a compliment :)

It is a bit rich that Bruce Fischer, who only posted defense documents (many only recently and not even on herself's site) and never bothered to translate the prosecution side, now makes false claims about Professor Vinci. Just because Professor Vinci made a presentation at AFS in Seattle in February, presenting the same old disproven arguments we discussed and refuted several times over at PMF, she (Amanda Knox) wants to pretend it as proven, when, they were not. I even linked to her stuff, DFFS, and the Wiki posted it as soon as ol' Bruce comes up with it. (Note: the reasons the so called 'sperm stain' wasn't tested was already explained several times by Stefanoni, but they're just carrying on with smoke screens, as per usual)

Oh, well, never mind. They really are novices at this internet thing, they copy us relentlessly since they never have an original thought in their heads, and the only reason she needs translators right now is she wants to beat us before PMF comes up with the definitive translation of the Nencini Report. Do what you did last year with the Cassazione Report, Bruce. Get Google translate to help you :)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks, Napia5! Good to see you back here. I don't see any debate as a slam dunk, just an opportunity to present an opposing view.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
tamale wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Exactly Stefan - don't deserve ANY attention


Gets on my nerves to have to keep having them pointed out here

no point, it just helps them, otherwise they remain in no-man's land and that is FAR better


I understand how upsetting it is, but we have to inform as well.

I don't believe he will ever get a lot of attention due to his own behaviour. It's simply not appealing. Just like Steve Moore and Amanda Knox, he needs a setting where he cannot be challenged otherwise he goes ballistic.

If investigating crimes is his vocation, one has to wonder why he left the FBI.


I tried to fav this..haha. pp-(


Ha ha. Too much Twitter? Happens to me all the time!

People are starting to lose their faith in the FBI by reading Jim Clemente's and Steve Moore's comment about the case. I wonder why that is?

Entertaining,huh? I like when certain folks open their big, uninformed mouths. They soon bury themselves in their own vomit. Too easy....but, we need to monitor them. History teaches us...they WILL do anything. pp-(
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Hi, all. I Googled Jim Clemente and spent some time reviewing some of the interviews he gave on HLN with regard to Jodi Arias. (Not posting links).

He comes across with an attitude of what I can only call "condescending arrogance". In his opinion, Arias, a pretty, young, lying white girl is GUILTY, and he seems almost gleeful when he addresses her psychopathy, IMO.

Wouldn't this attitude earn him the definition of 'hater'?

I'm personally glad that you're going to debate him, Ergon. I only hope that you have a visual on him when he is speaking. He has the same 'tell' as Knox. I wonder if he has ever done any self-profiling? I'm certainly not accusing him of any criminal behavior, but I bet he has some issues.


Hi Napia...Jim is unable to answer basic questions without resorting to insult and profanity...it's transparent and lacking...sad. I do believe he is seriously embarrassing to FOA. giggle
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:23 pm   Post subject: MICHELLE MOORE'S TEETH   

Naseer Ahmad ‏@manfromatlan · 16s
Quote:
Quick note to my friends at ORG,
you got it wrong about the blog
I can't write there about the teeth
So "go to NET" I'll tweet


Some hilarity at ORG making fun of Michelle Moore's teeth being fixed through divine intervention, and also a GoFundMe pledge request so she could produce a CD.

Sorry, but you got the wrong Moore here http://michellesings.blogspot.ca/ when our Michelle's blog is at http://www.michellesings1.blogspot.ca/

The real Michelle Moore looks like a lovely person, and I wish her all the best in her singing career.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Rumpole wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Exactly Stefan - don't deserve ANY attention


Gets on my nerves to have to keep having them pointed out here

no point, it just helps them, otherwise they remain in no-man's land and that is FAR better


I understand how upsetting it is, but we have to inform as well.

I don't believe he will ever get a lot of attention due to his own behaviour. It's simply not appealing. Just like Steve Moore and Amanda Knox, he needs a setting where he cannot be challenged otherwise he goes ballistic.

If investigating crimes is his vocation, one has to wonder why he left the FBI.


Probably because he gets more money consulting and writing the Criminal minds show - I understood he's one of the writers. And he's apparently worked as a prosecutor too. But I do understand that if he believes blindly in what his friend Moore is telling him no wonder the end result is a 45 minute show with only the innocentisti side being presented + getting quite a lot of the exstablished facts wrong.

Four years ago when I first got interested in this case I might have become really angry and frustrated watching something like that but by now I've calmed down and I suppose got used to the media getting it wrong 50% of the time. I don't also anymore care whether journalists etc. manage to pronounce the names of the people involved in the case properly or not, it's not that relevant. What's relevant is that when one looks at the evidence, there is no other conclusion than that both Sollecito and Knox were involved in the crime.

I wouldn't start arguing with this Clemente chap, it will only convince him more that the colpevolisti side is full of haters etc. It's up to him if he one day wants to look at the case more closely and read the available case docs and then draw his own conclusions. Watching that lip tv show yesterday it was obvious from his consulting his notes all the time that he doesn't know the case at all, he's just repeating "facts" told to him by his good friend Moore (if what you guys here are saying is true, that he's a friend of Moore's).

And I agree with Zorba that we should not pay any attention to them really.

ETA: he really is an expert on child sex abuse (and Criminal Minds consultant etc. - and I see you also had this link yesterday, did not notice):

http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/James_T._Clemente

I think he's a good person misled by Moore. Impossible to think that if he'd had a look into the case independent of Moore, he'd come to the same conclusion as Moore.


With all due respect, Jim is not such a good guy. What good guy recycles lies and mis information? What good guy routinely swears when confounded by the truth? What good guy decides case on here say? He is nothing more than a crime drama show host, who is making FOA look really silly with opinions based on altered evidence. He blocks me. unblocks me, blocks me...I guess sometimes he misses me. smile pp-(
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

tamale wrote:

With all due respect, Jim is not such a good guy. What good guy recycles lies and mis information? What good guy routinely swears when confounded by the truth? What good guy decides case on here say? He is nothing more than a crime drama show host, who is making FOA look really silly with opinions based on altered evidence.....


I agree absolutely. His abusive, rude, arrogant and ignorant tweets speak volumes about his attitude and personality.
No genuine investigator would accept hearsay at face value and argue for it so vehemently.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

There was a question elsewhere asking about Curt Knox hiring a PR firm to sanitize Knox's image. My reply was it was done for money and package Knox as a media property, but I differentiate between MSM and the online campaign. My answer:

Quote:
Yes. Starting with UK media asking all and sundry for interviews. My point is not dissimilar to yours. Yes, there was a PR strategy to sanitize Knox but that is not unique to her alone. The prize for an absolute media frenzy is the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, which happened earlier that same year. The McCanns used similar tactics the Knoxes did, including the hiring of a prominent PR guru to defend them against any charges of neglect and/or murder and arrange interviews to gloss over their image.

The Meredith Kercher case is unique in the extent of the internet investigation and reporting. Not that we never had websleuths before, but to THIS extent?

Now the template's been set, we can expect future high profile murder cases to follow the same arc, for better and for worse. Why do you think opportunists like Frank Sfarzo, Steve Moore, and Bruce Fischer jumped on this band wagon?
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Is Steve Moore employed anywhere now or is he teaming up with Clemente? I can picture the PR basic innocent package. Two ex FBI as the absolute experts for hire,access to the innocent website. Guaranteed twitter traffic, and 5 star reviews for the blood money book.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
Nell wrote:
[...]

People are starting to lose their faith in the FBI by reading Jim Clemente's and Steve Moore's comment about the case. I wonder why that is?


From watching movies and some documentaries I always thought only a very selected few were allowed to apply and of those only a handful manage to succesfully complete the entrance tests to earn the honor of calling themselves members of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. But then you see Steve Moore on TV repeatedly pointing his finger at Paul Callan while yelling out "Prove me wrong!" and you see Jim Clemente, who seems to be even brighter than Steve Moore since he doesn't even have to read any case related documents for his profound conclusions about the obvious wrongdoings of the prosecution in another country, calling all the guilters, haters and naysayers out with names, because they dare to doubt his god-like credentials.

Imagining those two grounded individuals with a gun in their hand makes me scared.


I love your sarcasm.

It baffles me that these two, Steve Moore and Jim Clemente, believe to be experts in everything concerning murder investigations. One was a pilot and the other investigated fraud when he wasn't working in the Behavioural Analysis Unit. In my opinion they have both embellished their fields of expertise.

Particularly with Jim Clemente I get the feeling that what he wants desperately is recognition and prestige that comes with a high prized position in the FBI. Many people with a low self esteem and other personality problems strive for these kind of jobs that involve a certain degree of authority.

Here are the requirements to enter the FBI:

- U.S. American citizenship
- Between ages 23 - 37 (if you are on the lower end, also 3 years of work experience)
- College degree, typically in a specific field
- Entry programs include accounting, computer science, language, law and "diversified," which covers anything left out
- Physical fitness test
- Background check
- Attend the FBI Academy (16 weeks)

It is the low number of positions available in the FBI that makes it so difficult to enter, not the high standards.

Reading Steve Moore's and Jim Clemente's tweets, I am not under the impression we are dealing with two extremely gifted and highly intelligent individuals.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

tamale wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Hi, all. I Googled Jim Clemente and spent some time reviewing some of the interviews he gave on HLN with regard to Jodi Arias. (Not posting links).

He comes across with an attitude of what I can only call "condescending arrogance". In his opinion, Arias, a pretty, young, lying white girl is GUILTY, and he seems almost gleeful when he addresses her psychopathy, IMO.

Wouldn't this attitude earn him the definition of 'hater'?

I'm personally glad that you're going to debate him, Ergon. I only hope that you have a visual on him when he is speaking. He has the same 'tell' as Knox. I wonder if he has ever done any self-profiling? I'm certainly not accusing him of any criminal behavior, but I bet he has some issues.


Hi Napia...Jim is unable to answer basic questions without resorting to insult and profanity...it's transparent and lacking...sad. I do believe he is seriously embarrassing to FOA. giggle


Napia and Tamale are spot on.

This poor Twitter user made Jim Clemente a compliment and he responded rudely.

Image


Besides that, he knows how to spread the love. Please note that this is only a small number of examples of all the insults he throws around and I browsed only through the past few days without browsing through the entire conversation. That should give you an idea at what alarming rate he tweets insults. He seems to enjoy it. Very odd behaviour for a public person with a reputation to lose.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
There was a question elsewhere asking about Curt Knox hiring a PR firm to sanitize Knox's image. My reply was it was done for money and package Knox as a media property, but I differentiate between MSM and the online campaign. My answer:

Quote:
Yes. Starting with UK media asking all and sundry for interviews. My point is not dissimilar to yours. Yes, there was a PR strategy to sanitize Knox but that is not unique to her alone. The prize for an absolute media frenzy is the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, which happened earlier that same year. The McCanns used similar tactics the Knoxes did, including the hiring of a prominent PR guru to defend them against any charges of neglect and/or murder and arrange interviews to gloss over their image.

The Meredith Kercher case is unique in the extent of the internet investigation and reporting. Not that we never had websleuths before, but to THIS extent?

Now the template's been set, we can expect future high profile murder cases to follow the same arc, for better and for worse. Why do you think opportunists like Frank Sfarzo, Steve Moore, and Bruce Fischer jumped on this band wagon?



The PR plan was not ONLY about sanitizing Knox's image, turning her into a brand for profit (murder marketing) and to recruit cash donors to her cause. This was only half of it. The other half was a slander, libel, lies and smear campaign against the ILE, with PM Mignini singled out as the main victim, so as to discredit the case and destroy Mignini both personally and professionally as he was seen as the main threat against Knox. And the final part was a misinformation, disinformation and denial campaign at the investigation and evidence itself. And then once Chris Mellas' FOA got going and the likes of the Bremners, Micheal Heavey, T Write, Preston & Spezi and Frank Sforza jumped on the bandwagon and sewer rat guns for hire Paul Ciolino were hired and various "scientists" declaring themselves experts in sciences outside of their field of expertise, it was all downhill from there. Now, if all of that wasn't enough, we have to put up with a tedious dribbling out of "ex-FBI criminal profilers" with their Third Wave junk science that has never provided the key to the arrest or/and successful prosecution of a single serial killer. All they have to offer is enormous egos and the creation of the myth that has resulted good book sales on the subject. And then we'r back to dust and flying pigs and DNA and round and round we go.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ah, but the slander and misinformation campaign against Mignini began before Meredith was murdered, with Doug Preston and The Monster of Florence case. Without Doug Preston, the whole PR campaign against Mignini would not have gained traction on this side of the ocean, with stories of a 'Sex and Satanism obsessed prosecutor' being lent weight by the Berlusconi factions. The Knox PR had a lot of assistance from the Italian side, including that of the well connected Sollecitos.

Yes, Knox PR went to great lengths, now thankfully failed, but American PR would not have gone far if they didn't have Italian 'sources' they said backed up their version of events.
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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:40 pm   Post subject: Re: MICHELLE MOORE'S TEETH   

Ergon wrote:
Naseer Ahmad ‏@manfromatlan · 16s
Quote:
Quick note to my friends at ORG,
you got it wrong about the blog
I can't write there about the teeth
So "go to NET" I'll tweet


Some hilarity at ORG making fun of Michelle Moore's teeth being fixed through divine intervention, and also a GoFundMe pledge request so she could produce a CD.

Sorry, but you got the wrong Moore here http://michellesings.blogspot.ca/ when our Michelle's blog is at http://www.michellesings1.blogspot.ca/

The real Michelle Moore looks like a lovely person, and I wish her all the best in her singing career.


LOL. MiMoo is from Thousand Oaks, California. Does anyone have the heart to tell her that the .ca in that domain name does not mean that her blog is local.

MiMoo and SteMoo: we're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Is Steve Moore employed anywhere now or is he teaming up with Clemente? I can picture the PR basic innocent package. Two ex FBI as the absolute experts for hire,access to the innocent website. Guaranteed twitter traffic, and 5 star reviews for the blood money book.


Laurel and Hardy. pp-(
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, Itchy Bro., when I read a Blogger account then Google automatically defaults to the local area which in my case is Canada. So I copy the url, which nows reads .ca, even though both Michellesings are American, and their actual accounts read as .com :)

I figured out a while back the reason why our Michelle's account was Michellesings01, there's an ORIGINAL Michellesings, LOL.
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Offline Merry


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Not sure if that has been mentioned before (I am still browsing this forum and fairly new to it)... I have been getting the idea that most of those people who defend AK might in fact be paid shills from that PR firm that her parents hired. It seems to be a common theme among all those cases where murder suspects hired PR firms (the McCanns, and Dewani also) - they all have their fervent internet supporters.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, Merry, and welcome to the forum. While some may consider it to be a truism that most of those who defend AK are 'paid shills' I believe the best PR campaign is one that effectively convinces people to become unpaid shills, as it were, the type who'll donate their time for free. Nothing wrong with that, where people passionately advocate for one side or the other, and so IMHO it only weakens our own argument to even call them that when engaging with them. As you say, in every case there are fervent internet supporters ;)

But what differentiates the Knox campaign from us is the volume of xenophobia, lying, stalking, and just plain nastiness that came with her supporters, as they tried to give the impression they had widespread public support, while using the most horribly abusive tactics I have ever come across in any PR campaign. Good thing we documented all that :)

So, if you have any questions, even doubts, please let us know. Have you read the Wiki and other forums?
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Offline Merry


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks, now that you ask so nicely, yes I have a question :)
in one of the older threads I read that apparently A sent Meredith a couple of text messages the day before the murder, she wanted to meet up but Meredith turned her down....
do you know if those messages have been published somewhere?
The ski mask prank AK pulled on her former roommates was mentioned and maybe she had planned something similar for Meredith, hence the texting.
Kokomans testimony comes to mind - maybe what he said was true? and AK / RS / and RG waited the night before for M to come home and scare her. I find it very interesting to speculate.
Yeah I read the wiki and other pages. I also read Kelseys story and the messages between her and RS.. . it was kinda creepy bc the way he defended himself when she started getting angry at him and finally realizing what he is about reminded me of an ex of mine. Evasive lying scumbag. (Who happens to be aries too, btw.)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I don't believe the text messages were ever published, but Meredith did tell her friends she felt sorry for turning Amanda down. Previous testimony and in the Nadeau/Follain books show Meredith was getting increasingly frustrated with the erratic Knox, and her ways. Knox seems to have resented being told to carry her share of the cleaning and implied criticism of her life choices.

This might have led to deciding to stage another prank on Meredith. The knife may well have been transported to the cottage for that reason. Rudy was roped in as well as Sollecito.

Once it all escalated (under the influence of drugs) it became inevitable Meredith would be murdered.

Yes, RS is just as much part of the picture as Knox. What sort of person would visit Meredith's grave against the wishes of her family and repeat lies about its condition? He didn't try to help Meredith, couldn't show remorse, has indications of violent tendencies, and his every word is a lie.

His trying to get married to Kelsey, Amanda, and other Americans? Cowardice. He ran away to London when Cassazione was about to rule, then Austria until he knew there was no arrest warrant. Good thing his passport's been taken away, and now, he's trying to distance his case from Amanda's.

Speaking of Aries (they're not ALL bad ;) his birthday's coming up tomorrow, (anniversary of Cassazione ruling sending appeal to Florence) the Nencini Report's due shortly after, and by this time next year, there WILL be an arrest warrant out for both him and Knox.

Astrologically speaking, he is due for some life changes right now. Knox, on the other hand, will be ramping up the PR campaign, ho hum. The media well's run dry.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:33 pm   Post subject: JUSTICE CANNOT BE BOUGHT BY PR   

The Anni Dewani case will now move to South Africa. Characterized by n awful, misleading BBC Panorama documentary sourced from the defense: TJMK

Remember Atif Ray and Sebastian Burns? http://injusticebusters.org/04/Rafay_Bu ... orts.shtml

They were convicted of murdering Atif's parents and autistic sister in WA to collect insurance money. Atif behaved inappropriately at their funeral, suspicion fell on them, they were convicted and extradited to the US.

And sure enough, our very own Bruce Fischer's site featured their case here http://www.injustice-anywhere.org/BurnsRafay.html

Justice cannot be bought through PR.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:01 pm   Post subject: Re: JUSTICE CANNOT BE BOUGHT BY PR   

Ergon wrote:
The Anni Dewani case will now move to South Africa. Characterized by n awful, misleading BBC Panorama documentary sourced from the defense: TJMK

Remember Atif Ray and Sebastian Burns? http://injusticebusters.org/04/Rafay_Bu ... orts.shtml

They were convicted of murdering Atif's parents and autistic sister in WA to collect insurance money. Atif behaved inappropriately at their funeral, suspicion fell on them, they were convicted and extradited to the US.

And sure enough, our very own Bruce Fischer's site featured their case here http://www.injustice-anywhere.org/BurnsRafay.html

Justice cannot be bought through PR.


That Bruce Fischer believes that Arif and Sebastian were wrongfully convicted reveals more about Bruce than anything else - again. The pair were caught in the Mr Big trap. They attempted to argue that "Mr Big" is not allowed in the US, therefore the confession should be inadmissable. They confessed to the crime in order to be accepted into a criminal organization, and on that basis, they were convicted. They deserve what they got, and Bruce should find something better to do than to attempt to have murderers released from prison.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

What's going on with the case at this time? Is there a deadline for the appeal that is coming up soon? Does the prosecution respond to the appeal documents?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Which case? :)

Dewani has till April 07 (some say 14th) before he's extradited, the High Court's ruled.

The Nencini Report is due April 30 or thereabouts, then 45 days for Knox/Sollecito to file their appeals to Cassazione.

AFAIK, Cassazione sets a hearing date, and the prosecution files its submission directly to the court.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks! I couldn't remember all the details of the case anymore. So the Judge's summary is due on April 30? Was that a 90 day task?

The 45 days for the defence to respond, and then a court date?

Won't that follow in a few months, with US extradition law poised to come into question. What's Knox going to do, wave at Sollecito as he's led to prison? Perhaps she'll send him some care packages.

Where does Amanda fit ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwUotTbF2aw
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

90 days is the allotted time, may come out sooner.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Being on Twitter has been absolutely worth it. For social media, it is the trending thing, and kudos to all those who kept Meredith Kercher's murder and this case in the public eye. A lot of new people were reached this way, and even got to change their minds. Reporters started following us too, and we were able to drive much more traffic to the Wiki.

Yes it takes a bit of getting used to, like a new language.

But while the FOA are setting up Facebook Pages :) we got things going in Twitter. I really urge people to sign on there, in time for the Nencini Report.

https://twitter.com/
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Being on Twitter has been absolutely worth it. For social media, it is the trending thing, and kudos to all those who kept Meredith Kercher's murder and this case in the public eye. A lot of new people were reached this way, and even got to change their minds. Reporters started following us too, and we were able to drive much more traffic to the Wiki.

Yes it takes a bit of getting used to, like a new language.

But while the FOA are setting up Facebook Pages :) we got things going in Twitter. I really urge people to sign on there, in time for the Nencini Report.

https://twitter.com/


Re: Twitter

Amanda Knox and social media manipulation

To compensate (or overcompensate) for her lack of support, Amanda Knox's team have perpetuated a three-tier attack on social network Twitter. First they use bots to spread the same message from multiple user accounts continuously on her hashtag #amandaknox, then they create new accounts to follow her in order to give the appearance of her having thousands of supporters.
...
The third line of attack has been hiring people to tweet in Knox's defense 24 hours a day, seven days a week. These paid tweeters also interact with the bot accounts to enhance the appearance of more supporters for Knox.


EXAMINER
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
tamale wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Hi, all. I Googled Jim Clemente and spent some time reviewing some of the interviews he gave on HLN with regard to Jodi Arias. (Not posting links).

He comes across with an attitude of what I can only call "condescending arrogance". In his opinion, Arias, a pretty, young, lying white girl is GUILTY, and he seems almost gleeful when he addresses her psychopathy, IMO.

Wouldn't this attitude earn him the definition of 'hater'?

I'm personally glad that you're going to debate him, Ergon. I only hope that you have a visual on him when he is speaking. He has the same 'tell' as Knox. I wonder if he has ever done any self-profiling? I'm certainly not accusing him of any criminal behavior, but I bet he has some issues.


Hi Napia...Jim is unable to answer basic questions without resorting to insult and profanity...it's transparent and lacking...sad. I do believe he is seriously embarrassing to FOA. giggle


Napia and Tamale are spot on.

This poor Twitter user made Jim Clemente a compliment and he responded rudely.

Image


Besides that, he knows how to spread the love. Please note that this is only a small number of examples of all the insults he throws around and I browsed only through the past few days without browsing through the entire conversation. That should give you an idea at what alarming rate he tweets insults. He seems to enjoy it. Very odd behaviour for a public person with a reputation to lose.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


That paints quite a picture... pp-(
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Being on Twitter has been absolutely worth it. For social media, it is the trending thing, and kudos to all those who kept Meredith Kercher's murder and this case in the public eye. A lot of new people were reached this way, and even got to change their minds. Reporters started following us too, and we were able to drive much more traffic to the Wiki.

Yes it takes a bit of getting used to, like a new language.

But while the FOA are setting up Facebook Pages :) we got things going in Twitter. I really urge people to sign on there, in time for the Nencini Report.

https://twitter.com/
Twitter has been an education. haha...It is a good way to get links out.. pp-(
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Being on Twitter has been absolutely worth it. For social media, it is the trending thing, and kudos to all those who kept Meredith Kercher's murder and this case in the public eye. A lot of new people were reached this way, and even got to change their minds. Reporters started following us too, and we were able to drive much more traffic to the Wiki.

Yes it takes a bit of getting used to, like a new language.

But while the FOA are setting up Facebook Pages :) we got things going in Twitter. I really urge people to sign on there, in time for the Nencini Report.

https://twitter.com/


Re: Twitter

Amanda Knox and social media manipulation

To compensate (or overcompensate) for her lack of support, Amanda Knox's team have perpetuated a three-tier attack on social network Twitter. First they use bots to spread the same message from multiple user accounts continuously on her hashtag #amandaknox, then they create new accounts to follow her in order to give the appearance of her having thousands of supporters.
...
The third line of attack has been hiring people to tweet in Knox's defense 24 hours a day, seven days a week. These paid tweeters also interact with the bot accounts to enhance the appearance of more supporters for Knox.


EXAMINER


It's true..hee...'Bots for AK'... pp-(
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:49 pm   Post subject: LOGIN ERRORS   

For the last few days I've been unable to sign into the forum. When clicking on the login link I would receive the following error:

"Not Acceptable!

An appropriate representation of the requested resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by Mod_Security."

I'm now able to sign in. If anyone else is getting this error and is unable to log in, please send Nell or Ergon a tweet or private twitter message on Twitter.

Thank You

Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:56 pm   Post subject: Capanne   

Just to make a quick comment about the case. In several places, I have seen people posting with the assumption that if Knox goes back to jail in Italy then it will be to Capanne. This is not necessarily the case. It must be remembered that the Florentine courts took over her case with her final appeal being held in Florence and this may well mean that she ends up in a prison within the Florentine jurisdiction.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox and Social Media Manipulation http://www.examiner.com/article/amanda- ... nipulation. An astrological view.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Amanda Knox and Social Media Manipulation http://www.examiner.com/article/amanda- ... nipulation. An astrological view.


This is an excellent article.

The true number of Amanda Knox supporters was revealed when around 2,000 people signed her petition. The Free Robert Duncan petition has received 3,347 signatures in only a few days.

Personally, I don't believe the number of about 2,000 to be accurate either. You only need an account at White House Petitions to sign. Judging by what I am observing on Twitter, I guess every supporter has a few identities instead of just one.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

"Meredith Kercher 'unlawfully killed' coroner rules - as Amanda Knox prepares to appeal murder conviction "
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/me ... er-3280048
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The homepage of Amanda Knox recently added the option to change the language to Italian. That might explain why she was asking for translators on Twitter.

http://www.amandaknox.com/

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
The homepage of Amanda Knox recently added the option to change the language to Italian. That might explain why she was asking for translators on Twitter.

http://www.amandaknox.com/



Yes, but it's more then that. She wants people to help her translate documents. My guess, that the main reason, is that when her appeal against her conviction is made by her lawyers she wants those translated into English as soon as possible so she can disseminate them to the US media and public.

But here's the other thing. Like Jim Lovering and Bruce Fischer, she's also learned that if she's to attract new people (other then the usual suspects) to her blog then it requires CONTENT. It's not like she's a born blogger who can attract people to follow her with the mere force of her words alone. Of course, she could use the excellent translations PMF has rendered, but then that would mean that she'd need to publicly acknowledge our existence and with it our criticisms, which she really doesn't want to do. She could use some of the translations that have been rendered by the FOAKers, but that then would mean she would have to publicly acknowledge her association with them, which again she doesn't really want to do (hence why her "thank you" meeting with the FOAKers at Vashon was done so secretly and the degree of anger when we leaked the photos from that meeting). So, she's left with having to render her own translations and as we know from PMF's past translations of documents that's a really big and difficult job, one which she couldn't hope to manage herself.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Amanda Knox and Social Media Manipulation http://www.examiner.com/article/amanda- ... nipulation. An astrological view.


I wonder if Sollecito uses a bot, too? He tweeted this message four times in four days (on March 13, 14, 15, 16). Must be desperate for money and will do just about anything to get more cash from his supporters.

Attachment:
Sollecito bot.jpg


Also, he keeps complaining about crime scene contamination by the Scientific Police:

jj ‏@jennifer_furno Mar 14
@Raffasolaries why do you think your DNA ended up on the clasp Raff? Do u think it was planted? There's too much for contamination...

Raffaele Sollecito ‏@Raffasolaries Mar 22
@jennifer_furno They walked all over with dirty feets (sic)

Raffaele Sollecito ‏@Raffasolaries Mar 23
The scientific police never tested the apartment floor neither the table, the door or whatsoever useful place to find a lot of my DNA ...

https://twitter.com/Raffasolaries

If anyone is interested, here are a few links he has tweeted to evidence collection videos, or rather, short clips, as an illustration that crime scene technicians "walked all over" the bra clasp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GY4g6zSnAk&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&a=&v=2LvYnMDjyV8&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE97DlTwjT4&feature=youtu.be&a=&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHgPy3ZOS1A&feature=youtu.be&a=&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?a=&feature=youtu.be&v=8iT9gPMkcZ0&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHINFxOhsSM&feature=youtu.be&a
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZyemLzjiV8&feature=youtu.be&a


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This OGGI article (translated by Jools) is definitely worth a read:

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=164546#p164546

PHOTO GALLERY

Great sleuthing by Jools re: Pier Paolo Barbieri & Fabrizio Corona!
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Stefan wrote:
The homepage of Amanda Knox recently added the option to change the language to Italian. That might explain why she was asking for translators on Twitter.

http://www.amandaknox.com/



Yes, but it's more then that. She wants people to help her translate documents. My guess, that the main reason, is that when her appeal against her conviction is made by her lawyers she wants those translated into English as soon as possible so she can disseminate them to the US media and public.

But here's the other thing. Like Jim Lovering and Bruce Fischer, she's also learned that if she's to attract new people (other then the usual suspects) to her blog then it requires CONTENT. It's not like she's a born blogger who can attract people to follow her with the mere force of her words alone. Of course, she could use the excellent translations PMF has rendered, but then that would mean that she'd need to publicly acknowledge our existence and with it our criticisms, which she really doesn't want to do. She could use some of the translations that have been rendered by the FOAKers, but that then would mean she would have to publicly acknowledge her association with them, which again she doesn't really want to do (hence why her "thank you" meeting with the FOAKers at Vashon was done so secretly and the degree of anger when we leaked the photos from that meeting). So, she's left with having to render her own translations and as we know from PMF's past translations of documents that's a really big and difficult job, one which she couldn't hope to manage herself.


She also wants to appear transparent and with nothing to hide. Too little, too late.
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Offline SqueakEMouse


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Amanda Knox and Social Media Manipulation http://www.examiner.com/article/amanda- ... nipulation. An astrological view.


I wonder if Sollecito uses a bot, too? He tweeted this message four times in four days (on March 13, 14, 15, 16). Must be desperate for money and will do just about anything to get more cash from his supporters.

Attachment:
Sollecito bot.jpg


Also, he keeps complaining about crime scene contamination by the Scientific Police:

jj ‏@jennifer_furno Mar 14
@Raffasolaries why do you think your DNA ended up on the clasp Raff? Do u think it was planted? There's too much for contamination...

Raffaele Sollecito ‏@Raffasolaries Mar 22
@jennifer_furno They walked all over with dirty feets (sic)

Raffaele Sollecito ‏@Raffasolaries Mar 23
The scientific police never tested the apartment floor neither the table, the door or whatsoever useful place to find a lot of my DNA ...

https://twitter.com/Raffasolaries

If anyone is interested, here are a few links he has tweeted to evidence collection videos, or rather, short clips, as an illustration that crime scene technicians "walked all over" the bra clasp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GY4g6zSnAk&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&a=&v=2LvYnMDjyV8&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE97DlTwjT4&feature=youtu.be&a=&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHgPy3ZOS1A&feature=youtu.be&a=&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?a=&feature=youtu.be&v=8iT9gPMkcZ0&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHINFxOhsSM&feature=youtu.be&a
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZyemLzjiV8&feature=youtu.be&a



36,000. It's not much of a haul for a celebrated international case now is it. I suspect that a good chunk of that figure came from Papa Doc to make it look better. Could it be, just maybe, that hardly anybody outside the raucous road show actually believes him innocent, much less like him. He's been caught having Caribbean holidays while pleading for funds, getting driven around in a Ferrari courtesy of one of his dodgy connections and seems to have no trouble finding money for transatlantic flights or holidays in Switzerland and Austria. Anybody who still gets taken in and gives money after that really shouldn't be in charge of their own money in the first place. It's another good indicator of the reality of public opinion.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So Knox is looking for translators? Perhaps she should have used the time it took her to write her book to translate these documents herself. Then she wouldn't need to depend on the kindness of strangers.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Insulting Italians and Italy is not a good way to endear yourself to Italian speakers willing to translate documents for free, is it, Napia5? :)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

And $36,000 is not peanut feed, Squeak E. Mouse, but I think I'll fund my own vacation :)

However, yes, probably the same group of people, making regular payments under Not Quite Their Own Names ;)
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Offline SqueakEMouse


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
And $36,000 is not peanut feed, Squeak E. Mouse, but I think I'll fund my own vacation :)

However, yes, probably the same group of people, making regular payments under Not Quite Their Own Names ;)



In terms of everyday life, you're quite right. I wish I could get 36,000 by holding out a begging bowl. But this young gentleman needs SERIOUS dough! He doesn't just have lawyers to feed, expensive though they are. His last hopes are PR (it doesn't come cheap and he is buying it on both sides of the atlantic) and fleeing abroad (you need a HUGE stash to pull that one off these days)

What does 36,000 represent? If it was one dollar from 36,000 people it's still a paltry following for six years of unrelenting propaganda. The product just isn't selling these days.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:48 am   Post subject: ON FALSE CONFESSIONS   

In other news, Amanda Knox's few fans are bring up the release of the Japanese Boxer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwao_Hakamada as an example of how she was coerced into filing a false confession.

Wikipedia:
Quote:
Hakamada was interrogated a total of 264 hours, as many as 16 hours a session, over 23 days to obtain the confession. They added that he was denied water or bathroom breaks during the interrogation.[4]


But did Professor Kassin defend this man, who better fit his thesis? No.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:55 am   Post subject: THE SECOND COMING OF ANNIE LEIBOWITZ   

In other news, we have a "Photo Safari" with herself posting a few photos on her blog (no selfies)

Cue the rapturous 5 star reviews except for one more honest reviewer, who may or may not be from PMF :)

Quote:
Love the keyboard …..but flowers …..umm …not so sure ;)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nara Capezzali's testimony has now been translated into English Nara Capezzali

With many thanks to Tiziano for the translation. Awesome job!
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:19 pm   Post subject: REBUTTAL TO AMANDA KNOX'S STATEMENT   

Here's Knox replying to "Nam" on her Perugia Ti Voglio Bene blog, emphasis mine, and no, I am not Nam either:

Quote:
Nam,

How is it clear that someone cleaned up after Meredith was murdered or “staged” her body and a break-in?

There is no evidence anyone cleaned the crime scene (Meredith’s bedroom). Her blood was found pooled and splattered throughout the room. There were hand prints and footprints in her blood. There were no signs of someone having cleaned any traces in that room. For that matter, it is impossible to distinguish and clean up one person’s genetic traces and leave someone else’s. Furthermore, Guede’s genetic traces were found in Meredith’s vagina, so for 1) her body to have been found in a prone position, with a pillow beneath her hips, suggests that the sexual contact very likely occurred in that position. The evidence suggests 2) Guede covered her body with the duvet after the assault and then set the bloody murder weapon on the bed sheet and riffled through her purse. 3) Nothing in that room suggests a staging after the fact of the murder in order to suggest a different kind of assault.

There is no evidence anyone cleaned the immediate surroundings of the crime scene (Meredith’s and my bathroom, the hallway joining our two bedrooms, Filomena and Laura’s bathroom…) Rudy Guede’s shoe prints in Meredith’s blood were not cleaned. The 4) nude footprints revealed with luminol tested negative for blood – which means they weren’t made in blood – and therefore had nothing to do with the crime. Meredith’s and my DNA found on the floor between our two bedrooms leading into the bathroom (which tested negative for blood) had already been deposited there from the sheer fact of passing through that space multiple times a day every day. The 5) hardly-detectable traces of Meredith’s blood in the bathroom were diluted in the sink and bidet presumably because Guede had rinsed the blood from his hands. My own genetic traces in that bathroom had already been deposited there again from the fact of making use of that space on a daily basis, as well as 6) when I took a shower the following morning.

7) There is no evidence to suggest that the break-in was staged. There is no actual evidence that glass was found on top of and not under the clothing strewn around the room. 8) There is no actual evidence of the rock being through from inside the room instead of from without. In fact, the broken wood of the window pane and the glass strewn within the room definitively suggests the rock was thrown from the outside. Rudy Guede had proved himself capable and habitual in breaking into second-story windows in order to burglarize. A trace of my and Meredith’s DNA, which tested negative for blood, has nothing to do with the crime. Again, Meredith and I lived in the apartment. We had been in Filomena’s room before.

Nam, I had nothing to do with Meredith’s murder, so I can’t provide definitive answers. What I can tell you is that what you are suggesting as proof of my participation is unfounded. The crime scene and the immediate surroundings were not cleaned or staged. The only reason the prosecution has attempted to bring up the idea of a clean-up and staging was to account for there being no evidence to sustain their theory of Raffaele’s and my involvement. They were interpreting the objective evidence from the biased perspective that I had to be guilty, not from the objective perspective of seeking to find the truth of what the objective evidence was suggesting.

The context of my testimony ever being inconsistent was the result of a coercive interrogation that occurred over night between November 5th and 6th, 2007. Upon relief from that terrible and terrifying situation, 9) I immediately questioned and recanted what had been claimed. Before that interrogation, and ever since then, 10) I have sustained a consistent testimony of what I did the night Meredith was murdered. I was at Raffaele’s apartment, enjoying a relaxing evening of dinner, movie, and intimacy with my then boyfriend. Period.

Does this make sense?
a


I appreciate Amanda Knox providing such a concise statement of her claim for innocence, and I rebut:

1) The placing of the pillow under Meredith, taken in conjunction with other evidence, suggests a staging to emphasize the sexual assault and away from the perpetrators of the murder. The cleaning of fingerprints on her lamp and the outside door handle also indicate the same.

2) The human body contain 5-6 liters of blood. The duvet was placed on Meredith hours after she had bled to death, or it would have been soaked though with blood. There is blood on the outside of Meredith's closed purse, but not inside, nor is there any DNA inside.

3) The fact the body was moved after, as indicated by the splatter, and placement of the pillow, is to simulate a rape. But what rapist would care about the comfort of a struggling victim, to place a pillow beneath?

4) Luminol is an indicator of blood, and the lack of a positive TMB result may just be a sign of a thorough cleaning. Bleach would have dissipated by then.

5) Knox ignores her own mixed blood traces with Meredith in three places in the small bathroom, which the defense did nothing to refute. Therefore the Massei court findings stand. Also there is no trace of Guede's presence in the bathroom, indications are he fled out the door immediately as his shoe prints made in blood indicate.

6) She's claimed to have taken a shower that morning. Yet officers say she literally stank, and her hair looks unwashed.

7) Nothing of value was taken, and no proof of Rudy's access through the window was obtained.

8) It would have been impossible for the large rock to have been thrown from the car park, and landed on the other side of the room.

9) Saying she wasn't sure of her version of events is not a 'recantation' or withdrawal of a false accusation. Several courts have convicted her for lying.

10) Not only does her book contradict her statements, her co-accused, Raffaele Sollecito's book contradicts hers. Conflicting alibis are one reason why she was found guilty of murder.

No, sorry, your statement does not 'make sense'.
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:40 am   Post subject: Re: REBUTTAL TO AMANDA KNOX'S STATEMENT   

Ergon wrote:
Here's Knox replying to "Nam" on her Perugia Ti Voglio Bene blog, emphasis mine, and no, I am not Nam either:

Quote:
Nam,

How is it clear that someone cleaned up after Meredith was murdered or “staged” her body and a break-in?

There is no evidence anyone cleaned the crime scene (Meredith’s bedroom). Her blood was found pooled and splattered throughout the room. There were hand prints and footprints in her blood. There were no signs of someone having cleaned any traces in that room. For that matter, it is impossible to distinguish and clean up one person’s genetic traces and leave someone else’s. Furthermore, Guede’s genetic traces were found in Meredith’s vagina, so for 1) her body to have been found in a prone position, with a pillow beneath her hips, suggests that the sexual contact very likely occurred in that position. The evidence suggests 2) Guede covered her body with the duvet after the assault and then set the bloody murder weapon on the bed sheet and riffled through her purse. 3) Nothing in that room suggests a staging after the fact of the murder in order to suggest a different kind of assault.

There is no evidence anyone cleaned the immediate surroundings of the crime scene (Meredith’s and my bathroom, the hallway joining our two bedrooms, Filomena and Laura’s bathroom…) Rudy Guede’s shoe prints in Meredith’s blood were not cleaned. The 4) nude footprints revealed with luminol tested negative for blood – which means they weren’t made in blood – and therefore had nothing to do with the crime. Meredith’s and my DNA found on the floor between our two bedrooms leading into the bathroom (which tested negative for blood) had already been deposited there from the sheer fact of passing through that space multiple times a day every day. The 5) hardly-detectable traces of Meredith’s blood in the bathroom were diluted in the sink and bidet presumably because Guede had rinsed the blood from his hands. My own genetic traces in that bathroom had already been deposited there again from the fact of making use of that space on a daily basis, as well as 6) when I took a shower the following morning.

7) There is no evidence to suggest that the break-in was staged. There is no actual evidence that glass was found on top of and not under the clothing strewn around the room. 8) There is no actual evidence of the rock being through from inside the room instead of from without. In fact, the broken wood of the window pane and the glass strewn within the room definitively suggests the rock was thrown from the outside. Rudy Guede had proved himself capable and habitual in breaking into second-story windows in order to burglarize. A trace of my and Meredith’s DNA, which tested negative for blood, has nothing to do with the crime. Again, Meredith and I lived in the apartment. We had been in Filomena’s room before.

Nam, I had nothing to do with Meredith’s murder, so I can’t provide definitive answers. What I can tell you is that what you are suggesting as proof of my participation is unfounded. The crime scene and the immediate surroundings were not cleaned or staged. The only reason the prosecution has attempted to bring up the idea of a clean-up and staging was to account for there being no evidence to sustain their theory of Raffaele’s and my involvement. They were interpreting the objective evidence from the biased perspective that I had to be guilty, not from the objective perspective of seeking to find the truth of what the objective evidence was suggesting.

The context of my testimony ever being inconsistent was the result of a coercive interrogation that occurred over night between November 5th and 6th, 2007. Upon relief from that terrible and terrifying situation, 9) I immediately questioned and recanted what had been claimed. Before that interrogation, and ever since then, 10) I have sustained a consistent testimony of what I did the night Meredith was murdered. I was at Raffaele’s apartment, enjoying a relaxing evening of dinner, movie, and intimacy with my then boyfriend. Period.

Does this make sense?
a


I appreciate Amanda Knox providing such a concise statement of her claim for innocence, and I rebut:

1) The placing of the pillow under Meredith, taken in conjunction with other evidence, suggests a staging to emphasize the sexual assault and away from the perpetrators of the murder. The cleaning of fingerprints on her lamp and the outside door handle also indicate the same.

2) The human body contain 5-6 liters of blood. The duvet was placed on Meredith hours after she had bled to death, or it would have been soaked though with blood. There is blood on the outside of Meredith's closed purse, but not inside, nor is there any DNA inside.

3) The fact the body was moved after, as indicated by the splatter, and placement of the pillow, is to simulate a rape. But what rapist would care about the comfort of a struggling victim, to place a pillow beneath?

4) Luminol is an indicator of blood, and the lack of a positive TMB result may just be a sign of a thorough cleaning. Bleach would have dissipated by then.

5) Knox ignores her own mixed blood traces with Meredith in three places in the small bathroom, which the defense did nothing to refute. Therefore the Massei court findings stand. Also there is no trace of Guede's presence in the bathroom, indications are he fled out the door immediately as his shoe prints made in blood indicate.

6) She's claimed to have taken a shower that morning. Yet officers say she literally stank, and her hair looks unwashed.

7) Nothing of value was taken, and no proof of Rudy's access through the window was obtained.

8) It would have been impossible for the large rock to have been thrown from the car park, and landed on the other side of the room.

9) Saying she wasn't sure of her version of events is not a 'recantation' or withdrawal of a false accusation. Several courts have convicted her for lying.

10) Not only does her book contradict her statements, her co-accused, Raffaele Sollecito's book contradicts hers. Conflicting alibis are one reason why she was found guilty of murder.

No, sorry, your statement does not 'make sense'.


pp-(
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
tamale wrote:

With all due respect, Jim is not such a good guy. What good guy recycles lies and mis information? What good guy routinely swears when confounded by the truth? What good guy decides case on here say? He is nothing more than a crime drama show host, who is making FOA look really silly with opinions based on altered evidence.....


I agree absolutely. His abusive, rude, arrogant and ignorant tweets speak volumes about his attitude and personality.
No genuine investigator would accept hearsay at face value and argue for it so vehemently.


Thankfully, people like that are losing credibility. Jaybee, I was not trying to dismiss your opinion. Nice of you to be so generous..that is what I noticed right off. Generosity of spirit..

Special shout out to Nell, who listens to endless speculation about poo, all the while, keeping a sense of humor.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Ergon. Lack of bloody shoeprints anywhere close around Meredith's body and lack of any evidence that he touched Meredith with blood on his hands are usually ignored. Yet the half prints on the pillow case and bloody handprint are used as the absolute evidence of him being the lone killer. You then have to go into the weirdest scenarios of him taking off and putting back on his bloody shoes, of him being a necrophiliac/changing his mind/placing pillow then wash hands or some other weirdness to explain it. Or better, just ignore all that.
I am so glad this case is (almost) over :)
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Amanda Knox and Social Media Manipulation http://www.examiner.com/article/amanda- ... nipulation. An astrological view.


I like this comment:

"This mechanical manipulation has been used constantly and consistently in Amanda Knox's campaign to spread misinformation about her case and to give the illusion of many supporters for her cause when in fact little to none exist in reality."

Spambots? Seriously? Multiple accounts for a single user? Sad. Poor desperate Foxy Knoxy, with $4.2 million dollars in her pocket, photographed cycling to the second had shop with barely half a basket full. She came out empty handed. She thinks that this stunt will paint her as mother Teresa. I'm wondering when she's going to give up the cooking clogs. She must make an awful racket when she walks down the university corridors; attention seeking, as usual.

But, back to the question of having a sinking PR game. That must really suck for old Knoxy - the woman that continued to harass her victim's family six years after the murder, and again after the conviction. It's not surprising that she is so desperate. That anyone falls for it is simply dumbfounding.

Perhaps she believes that the more noise she makes, the more likely she is to get away with murder.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
"Meredith Kercher 'unlawfully killed' coroner rules - as Amanda Knox prepares to appeal murder conviction "
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/me ... er-3280048


This is very interesting, as it involves stating the facts of the case by a foreign court. Couldn't that play a role in any extradition application? It seems like an assertion of facts in the guise, or context, of an affirmation that it was clearly an unnatural death. From the article:


"Prosecutors claimed that Meredith was the victim of a drug-fuelled sex game gone wrong but the defendants have consistently protested their innocence and claim they were not in the apartment the night she died.

Rudy Guede, a drug dealer, is serving a 16-year sentence over the death, though the courts have said he did not act alone.

"She died, the autopsy tells us, as a result of haemorraghic shock from stab and incised wounds to the vasculature of the neck. I do conclude that she was unlawfully killed," said Dr Palmer.

Miss Kercher's body was repatriated almost two weeks after her death, on November 13 2007.

Dr Palmer said a statement of identification had been made by her mother, Arline Kercher, the next day.

Speaking to Mr May, Dr Palmer said: "You have indicated that, on the night of 1/2 November, Meredith was found in her bedroom of her student residence... It was clearly an unnatural death."

Dr Palmer said three individuals had been arrested and tried.

"My understanding is that one male was convicted and has not appealed and so he stands convicted of unlawful killing."

Mr May told the court that the man - Guede - had successfully appealed to reduce his 30-year sentence to 16 years.

"The other two were convicted and appealed and I understand the present position is that they stand convicted and that there may be further proceedings in Italy?" Dr Palmer asked.

Mr May replied: "That is correct, sir."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/me ... z2xPyVS8rR
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Stefan wrote:
The homepage of Amanda Knox recently added the option to change the language to Italian. That might explain why she was asking for translators on Twitter.

http://www.amandaknox.com/



Yes, but it's more then that. She wants people to help her translate documents. My guess, that the main reason, is that when her appeal against her conviction is made by her lawyers she wants those translated into English as soon as possible so she can disseminate them to the US media and public.

But here's the other thing. Like Jim Lovering and Bruce Fischer, she's also learned that if she's to attract new people (other then the usual suspects) to her blog then it requires CONTENT. It's not like she's a born blogger who can attract people to follow her with the mere force of her words alone. Of course, she could use the excellent translations PMF has rendered, but then that would mean that she'd need to publicly acknowledge our existence and with it our criticisms, which she really doesn't want to do. She could use some of the translations that have been rendered by the FOAKers, but that then would mean she would have to publicly acknowledge her association with them, which again she doesn't really want to do (hence why her "thank you" meeting with the FOAKers at Vashon was done so secretly and the degree of anger when we leaked the photos from that meeting). So, she's left with having to render her own translations and as we know from PMF's past translations of documents that's a really big and difficult job, one which she couldn't hope to manage herself.


She may have the misguided belief that her entire case will be read by judges prior to an extradition hearing/decision. On the other hand, her laywers may have advised her that if the entire case is translated, it may be possible to argue specific points and essentially hold a new trial in the US. It was initially suggested by Knox's team that this is how extraditions are handled. The problem is that there is a verdict, so only points of law are relevant, like the information that was recently affirmed by the UK court.

If I'm wrong, and this is not about extradition and facts of the case, why is Meredith's death being confirmed as unnatural six years after the murder ... well after it was known that it was unnatural?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Is Sollecito donating any of his enormous wealth to a good cause, or is he simply on perpetual vacation?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:

She also wants to appear transparent and with nothing to hide. Too little, too late.


Every time she tried to be transparent, another suspicion was confirmed ... such as confirmation of "pranking" (causing terror to) roommates for personal entertainment.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

tamale wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
tamale wrote:

With all due respect, Jim is not such a good guy. What good guy recycles lies and mis information? What good guy routinely swears when confounded by the truth? What good guy decides case on here say? He is nothing more than a crime drama show host, who is making FOA look really silly with opinions based on altered evidence.....


I agree absolutely. His abusive, rude, arrogant and ignorant tweets speak volumes about his attitude and personality.
No genuine investigator would accept hearsay at face value and argue for it so vehemently.


Thankfully, people like that are losing credibility. Jaybee, I was not trying to dismiss your opinion. Nice of you to be so generous..that is what I noticed right off. Generosity of spirit..

Special shout out to Nell, who listens to endless speculation about poo, all the while, keeping a sense of humor.


Are Knoxy Gullibles still talking about the shocking moment of epiphany, when Knox realized that missing poop meant that Meredith was missing and something bad happened? Can she simply not see the big picture ... or is it only her Gullibles that can't see the big picture?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Thanks Ergon. Lack of bloody shoeprints anywhere close around Meredith's body and lack of any evidence that he touched Meredith with blood on his hands are usually ignored. Yet the half prints on the pillow case and bloody handprint are used as the absolute evidence of him being the lone killer. You then have to go into the weirdest scenarios of him taking off and putting back on his bloody shoes, of him being a necrophiliac/changing his mind/placing pillow then wash hands or some other weirdness to explain it. Or better, just ignore all that.
I am so glad this case is (almost) over :)


Are the foot prints: pillowcase, just inside Meredith's bedroom door, and down the hallway? Are there footprints from Guede farther into the bedroom? I know that there are no bloody footprints in the bathrooms, other bedrooms and other living spaces, although there are 2-3 prints on top of each other at the entrance to the kitchen. Are those prints from the same foot, or both feet?

Hand prints: smeared down the wall? on the purse? on the hoodie? Was there just one print, or several? I never really paid attention to palm prints.

The space next to the closet/wardrobe that is void of blood is interesting. What was there? Could there have been footprints and something, like the pillow, was moved? If so, how did the pillow get over there? If not pillow, then what?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:26 am   Post subject: Re: ON FALSE CONFESSIONS   

Ergon wrote:
In other news, Amanda Knox's few fans are bring up the release of the Japanese Boxer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwao_Hakamada as an example of how she was coerced into filing a false confession.

Wikipedia:
Quote:
Hakamada was interrogated a total of 264 hours, as many as 16 hours a session, over 23 days to obtain the confession. They added that he was denied water or bathroom breaks during the interrogation.[4]


But did Professor Kassin defend this man, who better fit his thesis? No.


48 Hours had a back to back of alleged false confessions, including the accusations made against Ryan Ferguson that resulted in a conviction for murder (similar to what happened to Patrick Lumumba ... falsely accused). It's another media blitz about how easy it is to confess to murder if one is prone to suggestion, stoned out of their mind, fed information, coerced, and deprived of food/water/toilet for 52 hours.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

SqueakEMouse wrote:


In terms of everyday life, you're quite right. I wish I could get 36,000 by holding out a begging bowl. But this young gentleman needs SERIOUS dough! He doesn't just have lawyers to feed, expensive though they are. His last hopes are PR (it doesn't come cheap and he is buying it on both sides of the atlantic) and fleeing abroad (you need a HUGE stash to pull that one off these days)

What does 36,000 represent? If it was one dollar from 36,000 people it's still a paltry following for six years of unrelenting propaganda. The product just isn't selling these days.



It must be a branding issue. That is, it's challenging to brand/sanitize a murderer using emerging web technologies ... but practice will make perfect.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thank you to Jools for the translation of Nara Capzzali's testimony.

It's astonishing how many times the defence (was it Knox's defence?) attempted to interfere with the prosecution ... no wonder it dragged on for 9 months ... with Knox's lawyers interfering profusely each time damaging testimony was presented.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/N ... y_(English)
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Is this where the House of Horrors nickname came from?

Nara Capezzali: "It took some time because I was thinking about it, thinking about it, I said: “but that scream didn’t seem possible...” a bit because it was windy, with this scream I felt as though I was in the house of horrors. "
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
Stefan wrote:
The homepage of Amanda Knox recently added the option to change the language to Italian. That might explain why she was asking for translators on Twitter.

http://www.amandaknox.com/



Yes, but it's more then that. She wants people to help her translate documents. My guess, that the main reason, is that when her appeal against her conviction is made by her lawyers she wants those translated into English as soon as possible so she can disseminate them to the US media and public.

But here's the other thing. Like Jim Lovering and Bruce Fischer, she's also learned that if she's to attract new people (other then the usual suspects) to her blog then it requires CONTENT. It's not like she's a born blogger who can attract people to follow her with the mere force of her words alone. Of course, she could use the excellent translations PMF has rendered, but then that would mean that she'd need to publicly acknowledge our existence and with it our criticisms, which she really doesn't want to do. She could use some of the translations that have been rendered by the FOAKers, but that then would mean she would have to publicly acknowledge her association with them, which again she doesn't really want to do (hence why her "thank you" meeting with the FOAKers at Vashon was done so secretly and the degree of anger when we leaked the photos from that meeting). So, she's left with having to render her own translations and as we know from PMF's past translations of documents that's a really big and difficult job, one which she couldn't hope to manage herself.


She may have the misguided belief that her entire case will be read by judges prior to an extradition hearing/decision. On the other hand, her laywers may have advised her that if the entire case is translated, it may be possible to argue specific points and essentially hold a new trial in the US. It was initially suggested by Knox's team that this is how extraditions are handled. The problem is that there is a verdict, so only points of law are relevant, like the information that was recently affirmed by the UK court.

If I'm wrong, and this is not about extradition and facts of the case, why is Meredith's death being confirmed as unnatural six years after the murder ... well after it was known that it was unnatural?


I am unsure if it is Amanda Knox who is misguided or if she is trying to misguide the public about her current legal status.

Her supporters keep claiming that the refusal of a possible future extradition request from 'backward' Italy is a sure thing.

Steve Moore leads the way, telling the viewers of CNN Live that the U.S. will under no circumstances extradite Amanda Knox based on 'faulty evidence'.

Source: CNN Live, February 11, 2014 http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=yout ... 6eT899jOvc

[min 2:05] "No, there is really no way the United States would extradite on such faulty evidence.", Steve Moore.


Meanwhile Jim Clemente confirms on Twitter that the only requirement for an extradition is a legitimate conviction. No further trial. No re-evaluation of any evidence in the U.S. No wonder he remains unpopular among the Knox supporters.


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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:

She also wants to appear transparent and with nothing to hide. Too little, too late.


Every time she tried to be transparent, another suspicion was confirmed ... such as confirmation of "pranking" (causing terror to) roommates for personal entertainment.


Either she receives bad advice or she dismisses good advice. I cannot tell which one it is, but everything she does seems to backfire.
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:

She also wants to appear transparent and with nothing to hide. Too little, too late.


Every time she tried to be transparent, another suspicion was confirmed ... such as confirmation of "pranking" (causing terror to) roommates for personal entertainment.


Either she receives bad advice or she dismisses good advice. I cannot tell which one it is, but everything she does seems to backfire.

I am confident that she is dismissing the advice and acting on her own. I doubt anyone working for her would seriously want her to be transparent - there is so much anger, callousness, expediency and stupidity in her words.

For some reason since yesterday whenever I try to visit her homepage it says "error" for me, I can't access it anymore. But I remember there was a section dedicated to the "Murder of Meredith Kercher" where she was listing important people, I don't remeber if there were links to case transcripts as well. I'd have to see it to tell if there's a difference by now - so, she was already trying to show content. I would assume the content to be very limited though, how much of those documents are pointing towards innocence after all...?

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
tamale wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
tamale wrote:

With all due respect, Jim is not such a good guy. What good guy recycles lies and mis information? What good guy routinely swears when confounded by the truth? What good guy decides case on here say? He is nothing more than a crime drama show host, who is making FOA look really silly with opinions based on altered evidence.....


I agree absolutely. His abusive, rude, arrogant and ignorant tweets speak volumes about his attitude and personality.
No genuine investigator would accept hearsay at face value and argue for it so vehemently.


Thankfully, people like that are losing credibility. Jaybee, I was not trying to dismiss your opinion. Nice of you to be so generous..that is what I noticed right off. Generosity of spirit..

Special shout out to Nell, who listens to endless speculation about poo, all the while, keeping a sense of humor.


Are Knoxy Gullibles still talking about the shocking moment of epiphany, when Knox realized that missing poop meant that Meredith was missing and something bad happened? Can she simply not see the big picture ... or is it only her Gullibles that can't see the big picture?


The poop story has come back to life again on Twitter. Someone asked for a photo and, for obvious reasons, I would not like to attach this offensive photo directly to my Twitter timeline, so I managed to include just a link to the photo and indicate where the original could be downloaded.

I thought I had found an elegant solution to the problem, giving the information requested without offending anyone, what happens next? Annella, an Amanda Knox supporter who is renowned for her poor judgement, takes this photo and tweets it endlessly, making fun of it.

People who cheerlead Amanda Knox have no common sense at all. The circumstances of a gruesome murder seem amusing to them.

Anyway, back to the ridiculous poop story: If you compare Amanda Knox's book Waiting To Be Heard with Raffaele Sollecito's book Honor Bound, you will notice that they have two entirely different memories of how they let police know about Rudy Guede's feces in the toilet.

An excerpt from both books shows the contradictions:

Quote:
Waiting To Be Heard by ghostwriter + Amanda Knox

We waited in the driveway for what seemed like forever. The police officers would come out, ask us questions, go in, come out, and ask more questions. I always told them the same thing: “I came home. I found the door open. Filomena’s room was ransacked, but nothing seems to have been stolen. Meredith’s door was locked.”

It seemed like the words came from somewhere else, not from my throat.

In the middle of my muddy thoughts I had one that was simple and clear: “We have to tell the police that the poop was in Filomena and Laura’s bathroom when I put the hair dryer away and was gone when we came back,” I told Raffaele. The poop must have belonged to the killer. Was he there when I took my shower? Would he have killed me, too?

We walked up to a female officer with long black hair and long nails—Monica Napoleoni, head of homicide, I later found out. Raffaele described in Italian what I’d seen. She glared at me. “You know we’re going to check this out, right?” she said.

“I said, “That’s why I’m telling you.”

She disappeared into the villa, only to return moments later. “The feces is still there. What are you talking about?” she spat.


Quote:
Honor Bound by ghostwriter + Raffaele Sollecito

After some time—it was hard to tell how long—we were told we needed to go to the Questura, Perugia's police headquarters, for more detailed questioning. Amanda and I accepted a ride from Luca and Paola. As we climbed into their car, Paola—who had never met either of us before asked Amanda how she had reacted when she found the front door open that morning.

Amanda didn't understand the question, so I answered for her, explaining that she'd taken a shower and then come back to my house.

"Really, you took a shower?" Paola said. She was incredulous.

Amanda was still doubled about the toilet that was unflushed one minute and flushed the next, so I mentioned it. Paola and Luca said it could be important and we needed to tell the police right away. So I got out of the car and discussed it with Monica Napoleoni.


So in other words, according to Knox, they were waiting in front of the house and then, because of Knox's doubts about the poop, they both went over to Monica Napoleoni to tell her about the feces, while according to Sollecito, they were already sitting in Luca and Paola's car and it was them who encouraged Knox and Sollecito to tell the police. A detail completely absent from Knox's story. Then, again according to Sollecito, he alone climbed out of the car and talked to Monica Napoleoni.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:45 am   Post subject: ADMINISTRATOR NOTE!   

Administrator Note:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:

She also wants to appear transparent and with nothing to hide. Too little, too late.


Every time she tried to be transparent, another suspicion was confirmed ... such as confirmation of "pranking" (causing terror to) roommates for personal entertainment.


Either she receives bad advice or she dismisses good advice. I cannot tell which one it is, but everything she does seems to backfire.


I am confident that she is dismissing the advice and acting on her own. I doubt anyone working for her would seriously want her to be transparent - there is so much anger, callousness, expediency and stupidity in her words.

For some reason since yesterday whenever I try to visit her homepage it says "error" for me, I can't access it anymore. But I remember there was a section dedicated to the "Murder of Meredith Kercher" where she was listing important people, I don't remeber if there were links to case transcripts as well. I'd have to see it to tell if there's a difference by now - so, she was already trying to show content. I would assume the content to be very limited though, how much of those documents are pointing towards innocence after all...?


I visit her page only sporadically. It worked for me yesterday. So maybe it's just a temporary thing or you might have to clear your browser cache?

If Amanda Knox wants to be transparent, she should release Sollecito's statements to police that incriminated her. Also, why has her family leaked - through Jim Lovering - certain crime scene photos, but not all of them?

Bruce Fischer has tried to fool people over the years, maintaining everything has been released except photos showing Meredith Kercher. We know this is not true. The files released by Jim Lovering on the Friends of Amanda website (offline again for failing to pay the hosting fee) do not contain the image showing the bra strap imprint in Meredith's blood.

Her stupidity is again demonstrated by the quote Ergon posted further above from her own blog. She limits the crime scene to Meredith's bedroom and claims no blood has been cleaned even though there are no bloody footprints leading up to the bathmat prints. So the clean-up is obvious and not debatable.
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
I visit her page only sporadically. It worked for me yesterday. So maybe it's just a temporary thing or you might have to clear your browser cache?

[...]

Normally I know my way around problems like that, clearing the cache doesn't solve the issue though. I tried accessing the page with my mobile phone over our wireless network at home - doesn't work either. Now I tried to gain access by the mobile web of my phone and it worked.

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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

To add something to the clean-up debate, there was a good remark by Jim Clemente in this video. I am too lazy to write all of his words down, so I would kindly ask anyone interested to watch the segment themselves.

Minutes: 22:52 - 24:17



I know he is trying to make a point to get Amanda and Raffaele off the hook, but he's actually achieving the opposite.

There has undeniably been a clean-up:

  • missing footprints leading to the bloody bathmat footprint
  • footprints revealed by Luminol in the hallway
  • blood drop running down the bathroom door (click here for picture)
  • the bloody footprint on the bathmat is incomplete and the weight was not resting solely on the ball of the foot
  • I can't find any solid proof for this, but I think one of the police officers said the bathmat was still wet when they collected it. If so, I assume it has been washed (I think the washing machine was still running or at least warm when the postal police arrived at the cottage). Also the footprint is in diluted blood, which further confirms this theory. In this picture the imprint still looks wet. (click here)

Jim Clemente explains it well, Rudy Guede would have left the crime scene immediately. The only explanation of someone staying at the scene for a longer period and preparing the evidence is a resident of the cottage trying to distract the police from himself. Filomena and Laura have solid alibis and they weren't present in the night of the murder. -> Amanda Knox

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
To add something to the clean-up debate, there was a good remark by Jim Clemente in this video. I am too lazy to write all of his words down, so I would kindly ask anyone interested to watch the segment themselves.

Minutes: 22:52 - 24:17



I know he is trying to make a point to get Amanda and Raffaele off the hook, but he's actually achieving the opposite.

There has undeniably been a clean-up:

  • missing footprints leading to the bloody bathmat footprint
  • footprints revealed by Luminol in the hallway
  • blood drop running down the bathroom door (click here for picture)
  • the bloody footprint on the bathmat is incomplete and the weight was not resting solely on the ball of the foot
  • I can't find any solid proof for this, but I think one of the police officers said the bathmat was still wet when they collected it. If so, I assume it has been washed (I think the washing machine was still running or at least warm when the postal police arrived at the cottage). Also the footprint is in diluted blood, which further confirms this theory. In this picture the imprint still looks wet. (click here)

Jim Clemente explains it well, Rudy Guede would have left the crime scene immediately. The only explanation of someone staying at the scene for a longer period and preparing the evidence is a resident of the cottage trying to distract the police from himself. Filomena and Laura have solid alibis and they weren't present in the night of the murder. -> Amanda Knox


I am by no means an expert, but reading about organised and disorganised crime scenes, the Meredith Kercher crime scene shows far more elements of an organised crime scene than elements of a disorganised crime scene. There are also crime scenes that show elements of both.

Organised crime scene

- an organised killer's crimes generally show evidence of planning
- the organised killer is in control
- organised offenders tend to torture their victims
- organised offenders may keep their victims under control for some time before killing them
- the victim is often bound
- organised killers prepare for their crimes
- organised killers bring weapons and restraints to the crime scene
- organised offenders generally attempt to remove evidence from the crime scene
- organised offenders often hide the victim's body in an attempt to make discovery less likely
- organised killers frequently take trophies from the crime scene
- organised killers may follow the media coverage of their crimes
- the organised offender is socially competent and may be friendly or ccharming
- the organised offender is sexually competent
- the organised offender has normal to high intelligence but may be a low achiever
- the organised offender is likely to have been angry, frustrated or depressed at the time of the offences


Disorganised crime scene

- the disorganised offender leaves a chaotic crime scene
- attacks are spontaneous and show little evidence of planning
- the victims of the disorganised killer seem to be targets of opportunity
- disorganised killers generally do not bind or control their victims
- the weapons of the disorganised killer are usually improvised and/or acquired at the scene of the attack
- the disorganised offender usually makes little or no attempt to conceal the body
- the disorganised offender usually does not hide or remove evidence from the crime scene
- the disorganised offender takes usually no trophies
- the disorganised killer generally does not follow their crimes in the news
- the disorganised offender has poor social skills
- the disorganised killer is unlikely to be able to maintain a stable romantic/sexual relationship and generally lives alone, probably close to the scene of his crimes.
- the disorganised killer often has poor personal hygiene
- the level of intelligence is likely to be low
- if employed the work is likely to be unskilled
- the disorganised killer may be suffering from acute psychological disturbance and could be psychotic

In my opinion Meredith Kercher was purposefully attacked, not randomly. The elements of staging and the partial clean-up point to an organised crime scene. The killers brought the weapons to the crime scene and the victim was physically restrained. There was an element of humiliation, sexual assault and torture before death. Evidence of the crime was removed from the crime scene.

None of the three accused is of low intelligence. There was an attempt to delay the discovery of the body by locking the door. Two of the perpetrators tried to carefully organise the discovery of the body by involving another roommate, Filomena, but their plans were foiled by the early appearance of the postal police who came to investigate Meredith's two mobile phones.

There is also the element of covering the victim after the murder which usually indicates either remorse or conflict, typical for perpetrators who personally knew the victim.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Nara Capezzali testimony was translated by Tiziano, Jester. Though yes, Jools has contributed many excellent high quality translations as well.

About Mme. Nara's testimony, yes, there is some memory slippage on minor details, but her exchanges with Bongiorno show her sharp as a tack, and she did hear what she did. Unfortunately, just as the medical examiner should have been allowed to take liver temperature to better determine the time of death, she herself admits she did not check the time so whatever estimate for time of scream is given by the prosecution is still, an estimate.

But, she went to bed around 9:00-9:30 PM, and woke up 'some time after'.

But read the testimony, and do, please, give your impressions.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:

She also wants to appear transparent and with nothing to hide. Too little, too late.


Every time she tried to be transparent, another suspicion was confirmed ... such as confirmation of "pranking" (causing terror to) roommates for personal entertainment.


Either she receives bad advice or she dismisses good advice. I cannot tell which one it is, but everything she does seems to backfire.


People like Steve Moore and Ted Simon must know that there is nothing to prevent Knox from being extradited. That they will not admit this suggests that they may have some sort of self serving reason for attempting to mislead.

It seems to me that Knox is not, and can never be, the person presented by her PR Firm. I think she receives good advice, but she cannot incorporate the PR mirage into her own reality such that she makes a good decision.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
I visit her page only sporadically. It worked for me yesterday. So maybe it's just a temporary thing or you might have to clear your browser cache?

If Amanda Knox wants to be transparent, she should release Sollecito's statements to police that incriminated her. Also, why has her family leaked - through Jim Lovering - certain crime scene photos, but not all of them?

Bruce Fischer has tried to fool people over the years, maintaining everything has been released except photos showing Meredith Kercher. We know this is not true. The files released by Jim Lovering on the Friends of Amanda website (offline again for failing to pay the hosting fee) do not contain the image showing the bra strap imprint in Meredith's blood.

Her stupidity is again demonstrated by the quote Ergon posted further above from her own blog. She limits the crime scene to Meredith's bedroom and claims no blood has been cleaned even though there are no bloody footprints leading up to the bathmat prints. So the clean-up is obvious and not debatable.


I think it was Knox's family that first stated that there was no evidence in the crime scene; no DNA, therefore Knox must be innocent. That was always based on limiting the crime scene to a few feet on either side of Meredith's body. My response to that has always been: if Knox is innocent and truly cares about justice for Meredith, why would she want to limit the crime scene to a few feet on either side of the body? If she is interested in seeing the crime solved, why does she now want to exclude the startling evidence that she discovered in the toilet at the other end of the cottage? Why is the broken window and blood evidence not relevant to the murder?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
To add something to the clean-up debate, there was a good remark by Jim Clemente in this video. I am too lazy to write all of his words down, so I would kindly ask anyone interested to watch the segment themselves.

Minutes: 22:52 - 24:17

I know he is trying to make a point to get Amanda and Raffaele off the hook, but he's actually achieving the opposite.

There has undeniably been a clean-up:

  • missing footprints leading to the bloody bathmat footprint
  • footprints revealed by Luminol in the hallway
  • blood drop running down the bathroom door (click here for picture)
  • the bloody footprint on the bathmat is incomplete and the weight was not resting solely on the ball of the foot
  • I can't find any solid proof for this, but I think one of the police officers said the bathmat was still wet when they collected it. If so, I assume it has been washed (I think the washing machine was still running or at least warm when the postal police arrived at the cottage). Also the footprint is in diluted blood, which further confirms this theory. In this picture the imprint still looks wet. (click here)

Jim Clemente explains it well, Rudy Guede would have left the crime scene immediately. The only explanation of someone staying at the scene for a longer period and preparing the evidence is a resident of the cottage trying to distract the police from himself. Filomena and Laura have solid alibis and they weren't present in the night of the murder. -> Amanda Knox


The first few minutes of this clip make it painfully obvious this woman knows nothing about the case and is completely unprepared for this interview. Even Clemente can see that she doesn't know what she's doing, so he steps in to ask Steve questions. I had to skip ahead to the 22 minute mark ... can't stand listening to Steve. He has a very disorganized mind, and it's painful to watch Steve and Clemente tripping over themselves.

What Clemente says about organized and dis-organized killers, and about people that stage the scene with the intent that someone else discover the scene, exactly describes what Knox and Sollecito did. They arranged for Filomina to discover the murder, but that plan went wrong when the Postal Police unexpectedly arrived.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
The Nara Capezzali testimony was translated by Tiziano, Jester. Though yes, Jools has contributed many excellent high quality translations as well.

About Mme. Nara's testimony, yes, there is some memory slippage on minor details, but her exchanges with Bongiorno show her sharp as a tack, and she did hear what she did. Unfortunately, just as the medical examiner should have been allowed to take liver temperature to better determine the time of death, she herself admits she did not check the time so whatever estimate for time of scream is given by the prosecution is still, an estimate.

But, she went to bed around 9:00-9:30 PM, and woke up 'some time after'.

But read the testimony, and do, please, give your impressions.


Nara took pills each night and typically went to bed between 9-9:30. Her first report about the time she went to bed on the night of the murder was that she went to bed at 9:30. She always wakes up two hours after taking the pills to use the toilet. She woke up to a scream, and used the toilet. She heard footsteps going in two different directions, but couldn't see anything. Sometimes, she wakes up 3AM, but this is irrelevant.

We have to take into consideration that it was the scream, not the toilet, that woke her up. That means that the murder occurred within 2 hours of her taking her pills, which she first reported was at 9:30. I think that places the time of murder between 9:45 and 11:30, as we have to account for the fact that she was woken up by the scream (so we need to have her asleep for a least 15 minutes). If she was mistaken in her first report and in fact took the pills and went to sleep at 9PM, that means that the earliest that she could have heard the scream, and the earliest time of the murder, is at 9:15.

That timeline does not exclude Knox/Sollecito/Guede from committing the murder.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Stefan wrote:
To add something to the clean-up debate, there was a good remark by Jim Clemente in this video. I am too lazy to write all of his words down, so I would kindly ask anyone interested to watch the segment themselves.

Minutes: 22:52 - 24:17

I know he is trying to make a point to get Amanda and Raffaele off the hook, but he's actually achieving the opposite.

There has undeniably been a clean-up:

  • missing footprints leading to the bloody bathmat footprint
  • footprints revealed by Luminol in the hallway
  • blood drop running down the bathroom door (click here for picture)
  • the bloody footprint on the bathmat is incomplete and the weight was not resting solely on the ball of the foot
  • I can't find any solid proof for this, but I think one of the police officers said the bathmat was still wet when they collected it. If so, I assume it has been washed (I think the washing machine was still running or at least warm when the postal police arrived at the cottage). Also the footprint is in diluted blood, which further confirms this theory. In this picture the imprint still looks wet. (click here)

Jim Clemente explains it well, Rudy Guede would have left the crime scene immediately. The only explanation of someone staying at the scene for a longer period and preparing the evidence is a resident of the cottage trying to distract the police from himself. Filomena and Laura have solid alibis and they weren't present in the night of the murder. -> Amanda Knox


The first few minutes of this clip make it painfully obvious this woman knows nothing about the case and is completely unprepared for this interview. Even Clemente can see that she doesn't know what she's doing, so he steps in to ask Steve questions. I had to skip ahead to the 22 minute mark ... can't stand listening to Steve. He has a very disorganized mind, and it's painful to watch Steve and Clemente tripping over themselves.

What Clemente says about organized and dis-organized killers, and about people that stage the scene with the intent that someone else discover the scene, exactly describes what Knox and Sollecito did. They arranged for Filomina to discover the murder, but that plan went wrong when the Postal Police unexpectedly arrived.


My thoughts exactly. The crime scene points to an organised killer, not a disorganised one.

Some of the steps that were taken to hide and remove evidence don't make sense if you assume Rudy Guede to be the single attacker. Everything points to Knox.

Also, FOAKers are suggesting there were only mixed samples found in the bathroom. They don't like speaking of the hallway or Filomena's bedroom, where the break-in was staged and her room ransacked, but nothing stolen.

The most ridiculous claim so far is that the bloody footprints were not cleaned and that it is just natural to leave bloody footprints on a bathmat with no bloody shoe or footprints leading up to it. It is insulting to everyone's intelligence.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

"That timeline does not exclude Knox/Sollecito/Guede from committing the murder."

My thoughts too, Jester, and regardless of when exactly Mme. Nara heard the scream, I believe it was Meredith she heard. I also think the assault was underway @10:03 PM, during the interrupted telephone call.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
max wrote:
Thanks Ergon. Lack of bloody shoeprints anywhere close around Meredith's body and lack of any evidence that he touched Meredith with blood on his hands are usually ignored. Yet the half prints on the pillow case and bloody handprint are used as the absolute evidence of him being the lone killer. You then have to go into the weirdest scenarios of him taking off and putting back on his bloody shoes, of him being a necrophiliac/changing his mind/placing pillow then wash hands or some other weirdness to explain it. Or better, just ignore all that.
I am so glad this case is (almost) over :)


Are the foot prints: pillowcase, just inside Meredith's bedroom door, and down the hallway? Are there footprints from Guede farther into the bedroom? I know that there are no bloody footprints in the bathrooms, other bedrooms and other living spaces, although there are 2-3 prints on top of each other at the entrance to the kitchen. Are those prints from the same foot, or both feet?

Hand prints: smeared down the wall? on the purse? on the hoodie? Was there just one print, or several? I never really paid attention to palm prints.

The space next to the closet/wardrobe that is void of blood is interesting. What was there? Could there have been footprints and something, like the pillow, was moved? If so, how did the pillow get over there? If not pillow, then what?

There are shoe prints by the edge of the bed near the door. Not further in the room. On the pillow case as well, but not on the floor near the pillow case despite half shoe prints. So how did that happen? One single hand print on the pillow case, and Guede claimed to have made the bloody smears on the wall IIRC but this could not be confirmed with any test. I think the pillow was too big for the clean space by the wardrobe. Besides whatever was there would have at least a bloody edge I imagine. Maybe a magazine or a paper. Possible removed because it had a bloody shoe/footprint on it. Report is due in a month :)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Jester wrote:
max wrote:
Thanks Ergon. Lack of bloody shoeprints anywhere close around Meredith's body and lack of any evidence that he touched Meredith with blood on his hands are usually ignored. Yet the half prints on the pillow case and bloody handprint are used as the absolute evidence of him being the lone killer. You then have to go into the weirdest scenarios of him taking off and putting back on his bloody shoes, of him being a necrophiliac/changing his mind/placing pillow then wash hands or some other weirdness to explain it. Or better, just ignore all that.
I am so glad this case is (almost) over :)


Are the foot prints: pillowcase, just inside Meredith's bedroom door, and down the hallway? Are there footprints from Guede farther into the bedroom? I know that there are no bloody footprints in the bathrooms, other bedrooms and other living spaces, although there are 2-3 prints on top of each other at the entrance to the kitchen. Are those prints from the same foot, or both feet?

Hand prints: smeared down the wall? on the purse? on the hoodie? Was there just one print, or several? I never really paid attention to palm prints.

The space next to the closet/wardrobe that is void of blood is interesting. What was there? Could there have been footprints and something, like the pillow, was moved? If so, how did the pillow get over there? If not pillow, then what?

There are shoe prints by the edge of the bed near the door. Not further in the room. On the pillow case as well, but not on the floor near the pillow case despite half shoe prints. So how did that happen? One single hand print on the pillow case, and Guede claimed to have made the bloody smears on the wall IIRC but this could not be confirmed with any test. I think the pillow was too big for the clean space by the wardrobe. Besides whatever was there would have at least a bloody edge I imagine. Maybe a magazine or a paper. Possible removed because it had a bloody shoe/footprint on it. Report is due in a month :)


The crime scene photos leaked by Jim Lovering on the Friends of Amanda website (now offline) were distributed in two packages. If you look at the photos #109, #111, #113, #141 and #142 from the zip package labelled Nov_2_and_3_edited, you will see there was a blue rug in Meredith's room that might be responsible for some of the clean areas in the bedroom. It looks too big though for being responsible for the clean spot in front of the wardrobe, shown in the images #158 & #159.

The crime scene photo #227 shows the bedroom after Meredith's body had been removed. Seeing it that way, both sides next to the body and closer to the door appear to have been wiped, maybe with towels, maybe the ones found in the washing machine were used.

Crime scene photo showing the bloody shoe prints you mentioned close to Meredith's bed are #125, #134 & #135 (from the same package).
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
[...]

What Clemente says about organized and dis-organized killers, and about people that stage the scene with the intent that someone else discover the scene, exactly describes what Knox and Sollecito did. They arranged for Filomina to discover the murder, but that plan went wrong when the Postal Police unexpectedly arrived.


My thoughts exactly. The crime scene points to an organised killer, not a disorganised one.

[...]

Exactly, that's why I liked that segment of Jim Clemente so much! You would think a supporter tries not to incriminate them with his statements.


Stefan wrote:
[...]

  • I can't find any solid proof for this, but I think one of the police officers said the bathmat was still wet when they collected it. If so, I assume it has been washed (I think the washing machine was still running or at least warm when the postal police arrived at the cottage). Also the footprint is in diluted blood, which further confirms this theory. In this picture the imprint still looks wet. (click here)

[...]

I have to withdraw that statement, had another look at it and I can't find any source confirming the bathmat to have been washed / wet. I checked the video when the bathmat was collected, the Pietro Boemia Testimony during the Massei trial and googled it several times. I don't know why I imagined to have read that before.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
I have to withdraw that statement, had another look at it and I can't find any source confirming the bathmat to have been washed / wet. I checked the video when the bathmat was collected, the Pietro Boemia Testimony during the Massei trial and googled it several times. I don't know why I imagined to have read that before.


You probably read that on PMF. In the early stages of the investigation, people speculated that the murderers might have attempted to wash the bathmat or rinse the blood from the bathmat.

Personally, I don't believe that theory, it was mere speculation by people discussing the case.

It was back in the day when people tried to understand what their plan was. Why they didn't clean all of the traces but left a few in the bathroom.

It was speculated that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito might have left the traces so they had reason to raise the alarm.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
The crime scene photos leaked by Jim Lovering on the Friends of Amanda website (now offline) were distributed in two packages. If you look at the photos #109, #111, #113, #141 and #142 from the zip package labelled Nov_2_and_3_edited, you will see there was a blue rug in Meredith's room that might be responsible for some of the clean areas in the bedroom. It looks too big though for being responsible for the clean spot in front of the wardrobe, shown in the images #158 & #159.

The crime scene photo #227 shows the bedroom after Meredith's body had been removed. Seeing it that way, both sides next to the body and closer to the door appear to have been wiped, maybe with towels, maybe the ones found in the washing machine were used.

Crime scene photo showing the bloody shoe prints you mentioned close to Meredith's bed are #125, #134 & #135 (from the same package).

I wondered about the content of the washing machine for a while now, but never thought about checking the Massei report.


Three samples were taken from two very wet lilac towels found by the Flying Squad [Squadra Mobile] of Perugia inside the washing machine, but they gave no results, nor did a grey hairdryer confiscated by the Flying Squad.

I can't find any results of those samples, so I would assume they didn't contain any valuable information (e.g. Meredith's DNA). I have to admit the washing machine is one aspect of the housework that I am pretty much unacquainted with, but I would assume it is near impossible to get rid of blood stains. On the other hand those towels would account for several aspects of the clean-up, probably soaked with water and then used to wipe away the blood. But as I said I would expect this to leave traces of blood DNA on the towel or in the washing machine.

Nothing but assumptions though, but it is clear that this is not a disorganized crime scene. By the way, any chance you might send me this zip-file via PM or E-Mail? I would like to follow your remarks while looking at the exact same photos.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
Nell wrote:
The crime scene photos leaked by Jim Lovering on the Friends of Amanda website (now offline) were distributed in two packages. If you look at the photos #109, #111, #113, #141 and #142 from the zip package labelled Nov_2_and_3_edited, you will see there was a blue rug in Meredith's room that might be responsible for some of the clean areas in the bedroom. It looks too big though for being responsible for the clean spot in front of the wardrobe, shown in the images #158 & #159.

The crime scene photo #227 shows the bedroom after Meredith's body had been removed. Seeing it that way, both sides next to the body and closer to the door appear to have been wiped, maybe with towels, maybe the ones found in the washing machine were used.

Crime scene photo showing the bloody shoe prints you mentioned close to Meredith's bed are #125, #134 & #135 (from the same package).

I wondered about the content of the washing machine for a while now, but never thought about checking the Massei report.


Three samples were taken from two very wet lilac towels found by the Flying Squad [Squadra Mobile] of Perugia inside the washing machine, but they gave no results, nor did a grey hairdryer confiscated by the Flying Squad.

I can't find any results of those samples, so I would assume they didn't contain any valuable information (e.g. Meredith's DNA). I have to admit the washing machine is one aspect of the housework that I am pretty much unacquainted with, but I would assume it is near impossible to get rid of blood stains. On the other hand those towels would account for several aspects of the clean-up, probably soaked with water and then used to wipe away the blood. But as I said I would expect this to leave traces of blood DNA on the towel or in the washing machine.

Nothing but assumptions though, but it is clear that this is not a disorganized crime scene. By the way, any chance you might send me this zip-file via PM or E-Mail? I would like to follow your remarks while looking at the exact same photos.


Hi Stefan,

Regarding the towels and possible blood stains: If you wash the towels right away, the stains will wash out perfectly. It is more difficult if you let it sit for a f few days, but still not impossible.

It is correct that they were tested for DNA but gave no result.

IIRC, Filomena stated the washing machine was still warm when she arrived at the cottage.


The zip-files are pretty big (135 MB and 175 MB approx.). Here is a direct download link:

Nov_2_and_3_edited

Dec_18

Please note that these zip-files do not contain all of the crime scene photos. They were leaked by Amanda Knox's family. For obvious reasons the photo that shows the imprint of the bra strap in Meredith's blood is not included. You can find that one here on .net, courtesy of Bruce Fischer.
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thank you very much, Nell. :)

I'll have a look at the photos later.


EDIT:

Links seem to be broken, I am only getting redirected to the main page. No files available for download, maybe they are offline.

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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I am now able to access the homepage of Amanda Knox again, I am pretty sure there has been an extensive effort to beef up the section "Meredith Kercher Murder" lately. The majority of the files are still in Italian though.

Probably really a desperation move on her side, because I can't see how this is going to help her. If she is ever able to offer a translation of everything then anyone willing to read through the extent of evidence provided by the prosecution and the weak attempts of the defense to dismiss this will be convinced of her guilt. Her best bet was to act like that sweet little girl, who was coerced into a confession and then chased by a mad prosecutor with some circumstantial evidence and altered DNA evidence. But she is definitely going down in a objective and transparent discussion. I think the number of her supporters, who aren't paid, will be going down rapidly.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A small victory for Knox in the Milan courtroom (latest ruling in the 'Amanda Marie Knox v. RCS Mediagroup' case, awaiting the Supreme Court review and opinion):

31 March 2014
The Amanda Knox Case, Between Right of Information and Right to Privacy (a must-read)
By Luigi Manna

(Court of Milan, Ruling no. 3967/2014 of 03.21.2014, Judge Dorigo
Amanda Marie Knox v. RCS Mediagroup et al.)

One thing the proceedings in Milan and those held a few hundred kilometers to the south had in common was their troubled course, bouncing between lower and higher courts. The proceedings in Milan began in December 2008, when Amanda Knox – at the time in pre-trial custody for the Kercher murder – filed a civil complaint against RCS Mediagroup, proprietor of the Milan-based daily newspaper Corriere della Sera, the editor in chief of the same newspaper, the publishing house RCS Libri and the journalist F. S. [Fiorenza Sarzanini]

Ms Knox complained that excerpts of her personal diary – which was part of the criminal trial file and had become available to the public – listing the names of her sexual partners and containing details about her sex life and personal inclinations, had been published in two press articles and in a book authored by the journalist. She claimed that these publications constituted the unlawful processing of her sensitive personal data and sought compensation for moral damages.
...
On the basis of the above, the judge concluded that the sensitive personal data of Ms Knox had been unduly disseminated and that she had suffered moral damage as a result. She therefore ordered all the defendants jointly to compensate Ms Knox for damages (liquidated on an equitable basis) and legal expenses.

Unless this ruling is reversed once again on appeal, it will be a sure point of reference in cases of potential conflict between crime journalism and the right to privacy, and these days there is no shortage of such conflicts.


CALLEGARI MARTINI MANNA
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
The first few minutes of this clip make it painfully obvious this woman knows nothing about the case and is completely unprepared for this interview. Even Clemente can see that she doesn't know what she's doing, so he steps in to ask Steve questions. I had to skip ahead to the 22 minute mark ... can't stand listening to Steve. He has a very disorganized mind, and it's painful to watch Steve and Clemente tripping over themselves.

What Clemente says about organized and dis-organized killers, and about people that stage the scene with the intent that someone else discover the scene, exactly describes what Knox and Sollecito did. They arranged for Filomina to discover the murder, but that plan went wrong when the Postal Police unexpectedly arrived.


My thoughts exactly. The crime scene points to an organised killer, not a disorganised one.

Some of the steps that were taken to hide and remove evidence don't make sense if you assume Rudy Guede to be the single attacker. Everything points to Knox.

Also, FOAKers are suggesting there were only mixed samples found in the bathroom. They don't like speaking of the hallway or Filomena's bedroom, where the break-in was staged and her room ransacked, but nothing stolen.

The most ridiculous claim so far is that the bloody footprints were not cleaned and that it is just natural to leave bloody footprints on a bathmat with no bloody shoe or footprints leading up to it. It is insulting to everyone's intelligence.


The silliest statement I read about the bloody footprint on the bath mat comes from Moore or Fischer (don't remember who deserves credit). The theory is based on Guede's diary, where he states that his pants were "wet" (blood) after the murder, so he pulled his sweatshirt down to cover the blood as he ran to his apartment.

The theory is that Guede went into the small bathroom to wash his pants. This is how they became "wet". He didn't remove his pants, but washed them while he was wearing them. The blood from the pants dripped, or poured, down his leg to his foot where it formed a perfect bare foot print in the shape of Sollecito's foot print on the bathmat. Guede then ran through the streets, pulling his sweatshirt down to cover his wet pants. This would require that his sweatshirt was pulled down to his ankles, but that detail is ignored.

When discussions about missing footprints between the bedroom and small bathroom are presented as proof that there was some clean up and staging, there is a quick change of subject to Guede's footprints from the bedrroom to the exit. The implication is that prints from the bedroom to the small bathroom could not have been cleaned up if the prints from the bedroom to the exit were not cleaned up.

Guede had no reason to stage, or clean up, the scene. He didn't flush the toilet, so he didn't clean up. Someone did stage the scene and clean up, and the only person that could have done that is Knox.

I was listening to a CNN crime show on the weekend, and there was a statement that caught my attention. In criminal investigations: "the clean get cleaner and the dirty get dirtier." In this investigation, Knox and Sollecito got dirtier and dirtier each time they opened their mouths. Today, they're both covered in a mountain of mud.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
Thank you very much, Nell. :)

I'll have a look at the photos later.


EDIT:

Links seem to be broken, I am only getting redirected to the main page. No files available for download, maybe they are offline.


Hi Stefan,

Sorry for the inconvenience. The dead download link was from IIP.

I uploaded the files again:

Crime scene photos taken November 2nd & 3rd 2007

Crime Scene Photos taken December 18th 2007


You don't have to sign up to download the files:

  • Just click on the link above and it will redirect you to filedropper.com.
  • Click on the button that says "Download This File" and a text field will appear.
  • Put in the security code displayed right above and click on "Download Now".
  • Wait until another window pops up that allows you to save the file to your computer.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
The first few minutes of this clip make it painfully obvious this woman knows nothing about the case and is completely unprepared for this interview. Even Clemente can see that she doesn't know what she's doing, so he steps in to ask Steve questions. I had to skip ahead to the 22 minute mark ... can't stand listening to Steve. He has a very disorganized mind, and it's painful to watch Steve and Clemente tripping over themselves.

What Clemente says about organized and dis-organized killers, and about people that stage the scene with the intent that someone else discover the scene, exactly describes what Knox and Sollecito did. They arranged for Filomina to discover the murder, but that plan went wrong when the Postal Police unexpectedly arrived.


My thoughts exactly. The crime scene points to an organised killer, not a disorganised one.

Some of the steps that were taken to hide and remove evidence don't make sense if you assume Rudy Guede to be the single attacker. Everything points to Knox.

Also, FOAKers are suggesting there were only mixed samples found in the bathroom. They don't like speaking of the hallway or Filomena's bedroom, where the break-in was staged and her room ransacked, but nothing stolen.

The most ridiculous claim so far is that the bloody footprints were not cleaned and that it is just natural to leave bloody footprints on a bathmat with no bloody shoe or footprints leading up to it. It is insulting to everyone's intelligence.


The silliest statement I read about the bloody footprint on the bath mat comes from Moore or Fischer (don't remember who deserves credit). The theory is based on Guede's diary, where he states that his pants were "wet" (blood) after the murder, so he pulled his sweatshirt down to cover the blood as he ran to his apartment.

The theory is that Guede went into the small bathroom to wash his pants. This is how they became "wet". He didn't remove his pants, but washed them while he was wearing them. The blood from the pants dripped, or poured, down his leg to his foot where it formed a perfect bare foot print in the shape of Sollecito's foot print on the bathmat. Guede then ran through the streets, pulling his sweatshirt down to cover his wet pants. This would require that his sweatshirt was pulled down to his ankles, but that detail is ignored.

When discussions about missing footprints between the bedroom and small bathroom are presented as proof that there was some clean up and staging, there is a quick change of subject to Guede's footprints from the bedrroom to the exit. The implication is that prints from the bedroom to the small bathroom could not have been cleaned up if the prints from the bedroom to the exit were not cleaned up.

Guede had no reason to stage, or clean up, the scene. He didn't flush the toilet, so he didn't clean up. Someone did stage the scene and clean up, and the only person that could have done that is Knox.

I was listening to a CNN crime show on the weekend, and there was a statement that caught my attention. In criminal investigations: "the clean get cleaner and the dirty get dirtier." In this investigation, Knox and Sollecito got dirtier and dirtier each time they opened their mouths. Today, they're both covered in a mountain of mud.


I have seen this theory discussed on IIP/IA.

Together with the silly claim that there was no partial clean-up, the imprint of Meredith's bra strap needs to be mentioned as well.

Bruce Fischer joined .net as Tom Wells explaining his ridiculous theory that the crime scene photo (not included in FOA's file dump despite all their claims of 'transparency') didn't show Meredith's bra strap, claiming the imprint in blood was an "artifact of the tile seam".

A tile seam is lower than the tile itself, so how this could have made such an imprint on Meredith's shoulder or the tile surface remains a mystery.

The theory originated with Amanda Knox apologist Bruce Fischer and has been included in his copycat wiki as well. He is still trying to make a buck out of this sad case by attaching a donate button to whatever speech bubble he publishes on the www.

Image

Image

Image


FOA argue the bra strap imprint is parallel to the tile seam to lend credence to their false claim that it is an artifact caused by the tile seam. There are two dark lines where the blood had accumulated that mark the border of each side of the bra strap and they are not parallel to the tile seam.

The photo below shows that even though Meredith's bra strap was positioned over part of a tile seam, the seam cannot possibly account for the pattern left in the blood. Besides from running at an angle to the tile seam, the imprint is also wider than the seam and the length of the pattern does not stretch further than could be expected from a bra strap. This "tile seam artifact" Bruce Fischer is talking about is suspiciously absent from other parts where blood is spread over tile seams.

Bruce Fischer also ignores that the removal of the bra hours after Meredith's death has not been established only considering the imprint in blood but also through livores mortis, the blood pattern found on her bra and the parts of her body that didn't have blood on it because she was still wearing her bra while she bled.

Image


To this day, there is no high resolution crime scene photo available of the bra imprint. Bruce Fischer leaked a low quality photo and this is still the only copy available.


Originally, Bruce Fischer's website Injustice In Perugia linked to the FOA website's download link for the crime scene photos. Later he substituted that link for one that redirected you to filedropper.com


The Friends of Amanda hosting plan has now expired again (the domain expires in October 2014) and with the website's content, the crime scene photos for download are gone as well. Apparently since the last time the hosting expired they only paid for another 6 months and let it expire again. Poorly organised these people. It is somewhat curious that people like Anne Bremner, a lawyer, and retired Judge Heavey, have so much trouble keeping deadlines. They deal with deadlines on a regular basis in their jobs, so one has to wonder if it is a deliberate act to let the hosting expire? With her extradition battle still ahead of her, I find the timing very surprising.

Amanda Knox's defence fund website is still available on the net, but not functional. The domain expires in January 2015.
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Offline Merry


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Stefan wrote:
Three samples were taken from two very wet lilac towels found by the Flying Squad [Squadra Mobile] of Perugia inside the washing machine, but they gave no results, nor did a grey hairdryer confiscated by the Flying Squad.

I can't find any results of those samples, so I would assume they didn't contain any valuable information (e.g. Meredith's DNA). I have to admit the washing machine is one aspect of the housework that I am pretty much unacquainted with, but I would assume it is near impossible to get rid of blood stains. On the other hand those towels would account for several aspects of the clean-up, probably soaked with water and then used to wipe away the blood. But as I said I would expect this to leave traces of blood DNA on the towel or in the washing machine.

Nothing but assumptions though, but it is clear that this is not a disorganized crime scene.


Yeah, the clean up... I mean, they must have used lots of rags / mops? and I guess the police tested the mop that Amanda fetched from the cottage... but it appears nothing suspicious was found (traces of blood, etc.)
And one of the roommates apparently said that Amanda was wearing some sweatshirt on nov. 1 that she never saw again after that...
so I suspect that they discarded the bloodstained clothing and cleaning items.
Did police search the rubbish bins in the neighborhood?
I have been pondering about premeditated or not, too, in regards to the murder, but why then didn't they make sure their alibis for the night match up, if it was planned?
Lots of questions....
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Offline Merry


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I am also curious, what motivates the others to post here? As to myself, I have always been fascinated by detective and murder stories, as a kid already.
What makes people snap and commit the most atrocious deeds?
For a while I immersed myself in the stories of those who ran amok, the Columbine high school shootings, for example. We also had some school shootings here in Germany. I tend to get soaked up and try to get into the minds of the perpetrators.
A friend once told me I should have gotten a job at the FBI or CIA, lol.
It is fascinating but I have to be careful not to overdo it because it does not do me any good.. it is like the evil seeps in and you start seeing it everywhere.
I sometimes find parallels in my own life then, as I already mentioned, reading Raff's dialogue with Kelsey reminded me of my ex.
I have a next-door neighbor whom I would call a sociopath, some of her behavior reminds me of AK, like for example the finger pointing at others and taking no responsibility... when people complained about her being noisy and playing loud music, she said it was another neighbor who has kids and it was the kids crying.
It is always someone else. I have filed a complaint about her (with other neighbors), since talking to her does not seem to help much. The landlady is a nice and rather soft person, I guess she shys away from taking action a bit...
The neighbor lies and is manipulative. And has a job as a teacher. The fact that someone like that works with children horrifies me.
It sucks that all too often, the assholes seem to get away with everything.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Merry wrote:
I am also curious, what motivates the others to post here? As to myself, I have always been fascinated by detective and murder stories, as a kid already.
What makes people snap and commit the most atrocious deeds?
For a while I immersed myself in the stories of those who ran amok, the Columbine high school shootings, for example. We also had some school shootings here in Germany. I tend to get soaked up and try to get into the minds of the perpetrators.
A friend once told me I should have gotten a job at the FBI or CIA, lol.
It is fascinating but I have to be careful not to overdo it because it does not do me any good.. it is like the evil seeps in and you start seeing it everywhere.
I sometimes find parallels in my own life then, as I already mentioned, reading Raff's dialogue with Kelsey reminded me of my ex.
I have a next-door neighbor whom I would call a sociopath, some of her behavior reminds me of AK, like for example the finger pointing at others and taking no responsibility... when people complained about her being noisy and playing loud music, she said it was another neighbor who has kids and it was the kids crying.
It is always someone else. I have filed a complaint about her (with other neighbors), since talking to her does not seem to help much. The landlady is a nice and rather soft person, I guess she shys away from taking action a bit...
The neighbor lies and is manipulative. And has a job as a teacher. The fact that someone like that works with children horrifies me.
It sucks that all too often, the assholes seem to get away with everything.


Curious what motivates people to make random remarks about a British woman that was brutally murdered during her studies in Italy? Imagine everyone's shock when the two, most unexpected, suspects were paraded into court. The more we learned about the lies, absent alibis, sudden change of plans, drugs, dysfunctional families, pranks, and deviousness, the more we questioned the PR Firm's protestations in US Media.

I too am interested in crafty criminals. It's like having a permanent IV watching the suspects in this murder trial. Do you wonder how they will squirm after the bars clang shut?

Knox didn't snap. She was born like that.




The Footprint

Image





''




There she is with the unusual mark on her neck






Pranking Outfit




Then there's the Foot Prints






picture of a pumpkin
This Post has been edited by a Moderator
Details: Edited to avoid a diplomatic row...the Bulgarian Embassy called.





The Knife

Did the sole murderer slide his fingers down the knife?




Finally found the Roger Rabbit ... drawn that way ... reference.




picture of a pumpkin
This Post has been edited by a Moderator
Details: Rimg'd image to fix forum width.
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hey Nell,

thank you for re-uploading the file. I haven't seen this many photos of the cottage and the crime scene yet, gave me a new perspective on some of the events and the evidence. I agree with you about the photo #227 that blood pattern on the left always raised suspicions for me.

I found a few aspects interesting and found others that raised further questions. I will do some research and will work them out in a post later, if I can't find an answer by myself.

Thank you for that post about the bra imprint, I haven't heard of that before. I have to admit I always tried to stay away from Meredith's room since there is one key element missing in the evidence there and that is her body. I understand that there shouldn't be photos of her dead body on the internet, but it is difficult to consider the evidence without seeing it for yourself. I would imagine there are several hematoma and other marks of restraint visible to the eye, I doubt anyone would question the participation of more than one killer if they saw that. Another point are the facts about the blood drops on her breast, as well as the knife wounds on her neck. If anyone could see those there shouldn't be any further debate about the prosecution staging a case against AK and RS.

I will read the report about her injuries and the state of her body again, maybe that will help me understand some of the blood patterns in her room.

By the way, I have been looking for the photos of her body since day one of my involvement in this case. But after finding this I can understand why they aren't available to the public. Not only is it disrespectful to the family of the victim, but what sick world do we live in if people are getting off on photos of a dead woman.

Attachment:
sick.png


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A note on the File Dropper site: Files are only stored there temporarily. It's an okay medium to use if you need to pass on large files quickly, but not suitable for long-term storage of files. That is, unless the uploader has a premium account.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just came across this; not exactly news about the case, but (somewhat) related:

ACC to Hold Program on Cross-Border Risk Management

The Association of Corporate Counsel issued the following news release:. The Association of Corporate Counsel, a global bar association representing more than 33,000 in-house counsel in 85 countries, in conjunction with Dalla Vedova Studio Legale, will hold a program on cross-border risk management in diverging legal systems and how business lawyers can...


WASHINGTON, April 1 -- The Association of Corporate Counsel issued the following news release:

The Association of Corporate Counsel (http://www.acc.com/) (ACC), a global bar association representing more than 33,000 in-house counsel in 85 countries, in conjunction with Dalla Vedova Studio Legale (http://www.dallavedova.com/), will hold a program on cross-border risk management in diverging legal systems and how business lawyers can manage the international patchwork of compliance laws.

What:

The case of Amanda Knox, an American citizen prosecuted in Italy in a widely publicized case, has underscored disparities in how national legal systems approach criminal proceedings. Beyond the specifics of this case, Knox's defense attorney Carlo Dalla Vedova and in-house counsel from Vail Resorts Management Company, Symantec Ltd., Gulf Bridge International and Wyndham Worldwide Corp. will discuss practical issues that corporate counsel should consider when handling different laws and investigations across borders. Additional issues to be spotlighted during the webcast include:
...

When:

April 8, 2014

11 a.m. EST (3 p.m. GMT)

Where:

To register for the live webcast, visit http://www.acc.com/webcasts.


INSURANCE NEWS NET
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
The Nara Capezzali testimony was translated by Tiziano, Jester. Though yes, Jools has contributed many excellent high quality translations as well.

About Mme. Nara's testimony, yes, there is some memory slippage on minor details, but her exchanges with Bongiorno show her sharp as a tack, and she did hear what she did. Unfortunately, just as the medical examiner should have been allowed to take liver temperature to better determine the time of death, she herself admits she did not check the time so whatever estimate for time of scream is given by the prosecution is still, an estimate.

But, she went to bed around 9:00-9:30 PM, and woke up 'some time after'.

But read the testimony, and do, please, give your impressions.


I found one interesting bit. What she meant by double glazed window is more commonly called single pane, single glass.

Most old houses do not have the "common" "double glazed" window. Many (me too!) had lots of confusion in this matter. It was just a good old glass window.
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

There seem to be a few trolls on Twitter, pretending to be outraged by the killers..and. I realize it really doesn't matter at this point. I don't know motives and won't use time guessing. One wrong statement and I...BLOCK. I love the block option...and use it without hesitation, cause they are only there to inflict pain by showing autopsy photos of Meredith.
Posters continue to jump ship over at #FOAK. Some are outraged Amanda is quietly allowing them to use her name to wound the Kerchers further. Some are confused by the ever changing landscape of Amanda's 'story'. And, kudos to those who have figured it out for themselves.
I think it's getting nasty..because of upcoming motivations. I see flinging of mud and flailing arms as sign..the other shoe is dropping.
Our strength grows..we have the truth and willingly direct people to it...
Thanks for the funny pics here. The humor is always enjoyed... Namaste...
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Ergon wrote:
The Nara Capezzali testimony was translated by Tiziano, Jester. Though yes, Jools has contributed many excellent high quality translations as well.

About Mme. Nara's testimony, yes, there is some memory slippage on minor details, but her exchanges with Bongiorno show her sharp as a tack, and she did hear what she did. Unfortunately, just as the medical examiner should have been allowed to take liver temperature to better determine the time of death, she herself admits she did not check the time so whatever estimate for time of scream is given by the prosecution is still, an estimate.

But, she went to bed around 9:00-9:30 PM, and woke up 'some time after'.

But read the testimony, and do, please, give your impressions.


I found one interesting bit. What she meant by double glazed window is more commonly called single pane, single glass.

Most old houses do not have the "common" "double glazed" window. Many (me too!) had lots of confusion in this matter. It was just a good old glass window.


Good point, chami. The houses in Perugia are really quite old. I rarely found a North American style fitted double glazed window there, they all seemed to be single paned. Blame Paul Ciolino of CBS 48 Hrs infamy, who harangued Mme Capezalli about how she could not possibly have heard the scream.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:51 am   Post subject: STEVE MOORE ON TWITTER   

Interesting argument between Steve/Michelle Moore and Amanda Knox supporter K3 Books. https://twitter.com/k3books You need to click on all conversations.

Catching Steve out that he wrote most of the book on "Rudy Guede, the Forgotten Killer" but using it to promote his own book.

Steve, backpedaling furiously, promises to donate all profits on the book to the Knox/Sollecito legal fund. https://twitter.com/Gman_Moore/status/4 ... 0477537280

Quote:
Steve Moore ‏@Gman_Moore · 52m
@k3books But I WILL donate my book proceeds for the next year from "Special Agent Man" to the Knox/Sollecito legal fund


K3books UK ‏@k3books · 2h

Quote:
@Gman_Moore, Will you admit you and your daft pals have screwed up Knox's chances of a fair trial with that gormless book? #AmandaKnox


Quote:
@Gman_Moore "Rain was predicted in Leeds" Steve U R scaring me... checking a man's weather...Now that's what I call stalking #AmandaKnox


K3books UK ‏@k3books · 2h
Quote:
@Gman_Moore The book is 81 pages 50 of them you talking about your exploits in FBI and links to your book "Secrete agent man" #AmandaKnox


K3books UK ‏@k3books · 2h
Quote:
@lightmeup316 @Gman_Moore if there is a dead girl in book & you say I don't get a penny .. put adverts links to a profit book yes immoral
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:34 am   Post subject: Re: STEVE MOORE ON TWITTER   

Ergon wrote:
Interesting argument between Steve/Michelle Moore and Amanda Knox supporter K3 Books. https://twitter.com/k3books You need to click on all conversations.

Catching Steve out that he wrote most of the book on "Rudy Guede, the Forgotten Killer" but using it to promote his own book.

Steve, backpedaling furiously, promises to donate all profits on the book to the Knox/Sollecito legal fund. https://twitter.com/Gman_Moore/status/4 ... 0477537280

Quote:
Steve Moore ‏@Gman_Moore · 52m
@k3books But I WILL donate my book proceeds for the next year from "Special Agent Man" to the Knox/Sollecito legal fund


K3books UK ‏@k3books · 2h

Quote:
@Gman_Moore, Will you admit you and your daft pals have screwed up Knox's chances of a fair trial with that gormless book? #AmandaKnox


Quote:
@Gman_Moore "Rain was predicted in Leeds" Steve U R scaring me... checking a man's weather...Now that's what I call stalking #AmandaKnox


K3books UK ‏@k3books · 2h
Quote:
@Gman_Moore The book is 81 pages 50 of them you talking about your exploits in FBI and links to your book "Secrete agent man" #AmandaKnox


K3books UK ‏@k3books · 2h
Quote:
@lightmeup316 @Gman_Moore if there is a dead girl in book & you say I don't get a penny .. put adverts links to a profit book yes immoral


Steve is reportedly drinking..again. Maybe the truth is closing in...maybe his book is not doing so well. sad

I made a few comments at examiner.com and within minutes a Franknows popped up arguing with me. Anybody who knows the back story will laugh. I think it is a Bruce sock puppet trying to intimidate me...won't work. Tamaleknows too.

Times are desperate in FOAKlandia. wink
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:28 am   Post subject: Re: STEVE MOORE ON TWITTER   

Ergon wrote:
Interesting argument between Steve/Michelle Moore and Amanda Knox supporter K3 Books. https://twitter.com/k3books You need to click on all conversations.

Catching Steve out that he wrote most of the book on "Rudy Guede, the Forgotten Killer" but using it to promote his own book.

Steve, backpedaling furiously, promises to donate all profits on the book to the Knox/Sollecito legal fund. https://twitter.com/Gman_Moore/status/4 ... 0477537280

Quote:
Steve Moore ‏@Gman_Moore · 52m
@k3books But I WILL donate my book proceeds for the next year from "Special Agent Man" to the Knox/Sollecito legal fund


K3books UK ‏@k3books · 2h

Quote:
@Gman_Moore, Will you admit you and your daft pals have screwed up Knox's chances of a fair trial with that gormless book? #AmandaKnox


Quote:
@Gman_Moore "Rain was predicted in Leeds" Steve U R scaring me... checking a man's weather...Now that's what I call stalking #AmandaKnox


K3books UK ‏@k3books · 2h
Quote:
@Gman_Moore The book is 81 pages 50 of them you talking about your exploits in FBI and links to your book "Secrete agent man" #AmandaKnox


K3books UK ‏@k3books · 2h
Quote:
@lightmeup316 @Gman_Moore if there is a dead girl in book & you say I don't get a penny .. put adverts links to a profit book yes immoral



It's all very well Steve Moore saying that now, but how will we ever know? Only Moore himself will know how much he receives from his book over the next year and so only he will know if all of it is donated to Knox's campaign. It's all very easy to say.

And the fact remains, he's been caught using Knox's case to heavily promote his FBI book. And he had no intention of donating any of the proceeds from it until someone publicly called him out on it. Not that I imagine he sells many copies in any case.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The list of those who profited from the case, aside from selling books is quite long, Michael. The professional experts for hire, Kassin, Hampikian, Douglas. The media wannabes (Steve Moore and co) The for profit internet innocence advocacy groups, like Fischer, who likes to tell us he is a) not making any money and b) expanding and doing very well :)
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
The list of those who profited from the case, aside from selling books is quite long, Michael. The professional experts for hire, Kassin, Hampikian, Douglas. The media wannabes (Steve Moore and co) The for profit internet innocence advocacy groups, like Fischer, who likes to tell us he is a) not making any money and b) expanding and doing very well :)


True.

Please do not forget the second level operators. They are perhaps getting only crumbs but there will be tons of crumbs. Our venerable Sforza, for example.

What is the usual rates for the Italian lawyers? Did C&V gave any public interviews? Did they profit too?

I know I am forgetting many but the credit list will run into pages...
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Another Professor of Law gets it wrong (*sigh*):

Is Amanda Knox extraditable from the United States to Italy?
Posted on Friday, April 4th, 2014 at 8:30 am

M. Cherif Bassiouni wrote:
Whatever the interpretation of article VI may be—“same act,” “same facts,” or the broader “same conduct”—Amanda Knox would not be extraditable to Italy should Italy seek her extradition because she was retried for the same acts, the same facts, and the same conduct. Her case was reviewed three times with different outcomes even though she was not actually tried three times. In light of the jurisprudence of the various circuits on this issue, it is unlikely that extradition would be granted.


OUP BLOG

And he has written a book on "International Extradition"? Wow. These "experts" can function but do not really understand the area in which they claim expertise. Sad. Professor Bassiouni needs to pay more attention while reading Article VI of the Extradition Treaty: he's missed one "tiny" detail - "by the Requested Party" (meaning the US). He wasn't the first, and won't be the last to misinterpret this Article:

Quote:
ARTICLE VI

Non Bis in Idem

Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for which extradition is requested.


Maybe someone should point out his mistake and dampen his optimism re: Knox's non-extradition. :)

I know we've been down this road a thousand times, but "experts" on international extradition are still getting it wrong, so it bears repeating: Knox hasn't been tried, convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party (the US), for the same offense (murder) for which extradition is requested. Requested and Requesting Parties (countries) are two different "things". Basta.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Ergon wrote:
The list of those who profited from the case, aside from selling books is quite long, Michael. The professional experts for hire, Kassin, Hampikian, Douglas. The media wannabes (Steve Moore and co) The for profit internet innocence advocacy groups, like Fischer, who likes to tell us he is a) not making any money and b) expanding and doing very well :)


True.

Please do not forget the second level operators. They are perhaps getting only crumbs but there will be tons of crumbs. Our venerable Sforza, for example.

What is the usual rates for the Italian lawyers? Did C&V gave any public interviews? Did they profit too?

I know I am forgetting many but the credit list will run into pages...


I found it telling that neither Knox/Sollecito thanked Sforza in their books. ?? pp-(
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

More trouble ahead for Sollecito (& Gumbel):

3 April 2014
Raffaele Sollecito insults pm
and is part of a new process

By Egle Priolo


PERUGIA - As always, it was alleged , and as always , in the case of the murder of Meredith Kercher , everything can be turned into any judgment.

Even in the spin-off (attached) processes, such as defamation (against the prosecutor Mignini ) and contempt (against the police), in which Raffaele Sollecito , convicted of the murder of British student along with former girlfriend Amanda Knox, and British journalist and writer - (now 'irreperebile' - untraceable, missing, absent?) Paul Andrew Gumbel are investigated. Defamation because many parts of the book "Honor Bound ," of which both are the authors, contains, for the prosecution, several defamatory parts.

More than just mere sentences, (supposedly) defamatory are entire chapters of the book, listed (quoted) in what is technically called the conclusion of the investigation and in practice announces the request for indictment and therefore the process/trial. It starts from the principal proof (later disproved by facts) against Sollecito. The two accused (authors) write : "The main evidence that Mignini brought up at the preliminary hearing were my Nike (shoes) and he did everything he could to make it as incriminating as possible ...". And again: "... the police had only pictures of my shoes, not those incriminated (that is, shoe impressions, ed). Somehow, they came to the conclusion that my Nikes were the same make, model and with shoe impressions as those found on the floor of Meredith's room. There was no doubt about it." Then the facts demonstrate that the imprint was Rudy Guede's, the third convicted of the murder of British student, and that the shoes could not be (by size) those of Sollecito.

Then tap the conduct of the trial by Mignini. Writes the couple Sollecito - Gumbel: "One of the reasons why our audiences/hearings were held so far apart was Mignini who was fighting his own, separate legal battle to ward off accusations of abuse of office / investigative activity." And the link goes to the case of the Monster of Florence that is connected to the death of Perugian doctor Francesco Narducci, conducted by Mignini. Sollecito claims (defended in this trial by lawyer Alfredo Brizioli): "I believe that our trial was, among other things, a great diversion in order to keep the media's attention away from the legal battle led by Mignini in Florence, and provide a victory in a high-profile trial that he desperately needed to restore his reputation." Because, says the young man from Puglia: "... just as he did in the case of the Monster of Florence, Mignini used every tool at his disposal against his critics and opponents ... the flurry of lawsuits by Mignini had an inevitable chilling effect, especially in the Italian press, and played a clear role in turning public opinion against us."

In essence, the case against Sollecito and the British journalist Gumbel is to have argued that an idea of Mignini to pursue those who hindered the investigation was part of a well-rehearsed ploy, orchestrated by the prosecutor to bend the investigation and the process to his will/side. With a passage that is clear, at least for the Florentine prosecutor Giuliano Giambartolomei: "His approach (Mignini's , ed) - Sollecito says - was especially vindictive."

Enough to charge him (Sollecito) with defamation.


IL MESSAGGERO
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A bit OT, though, again, somewhat relevant, in light of Knox's close friendship with Damien Echols.

Knox and Sollecito get a mention in this -- March 26 -- blog post, announcing the release of the movie Devil's Knot (I almost spelled it "Devil's KnoX" ;) ) in Italy.

A little light reading for the weekend:

Devil's Knot - Until Proven Otherwise: posters and stills from the film
Written by Davide Vignola, March 26, 2014

We present the poster and some photos of Devil's Knot - Until Proven Otherwise (based on a true story), a film by Atom Egoyan, starring Academy Award winner Colin Firth and Academy Award winner Reese Witherspoon. The film will hit Italian movie theaters on May 8, distributed by Notorious Pictures.

A triple murder that shocked America. One of the most challenged miscarriages of justice in recent years. Devil's Knot - Until Proven Otherwise , directed by Atom Egoyan and starring Oscar ® winners Colin Firth and Reese Witherspoon, tells the chilling odyssey of the "West Memphis Three", adolescents between 16 and 18 yo, considered "weird" by inhabitants of a conservative small town, which in 1994 were convicted of brutally murdering three children in a forest. In 2011, after nearly 18 years in prison, they were released, victims of investigative blunders, confessions full of inconsistencies, the absence of hard evidence, and especially the heavy bias of an entire community. To date, the case has not been solved yet and there is a murderer who does not have a face.

Three children are abducted and killed in the forests of Tennessee. Pam Hobbs, the mother of one of the victims, vows not to give up until they are identified, what appears to be the culprits, three teenagers with a criminal record that rebel in a small town. The defendants, socially marginalized, suddenly find themselves in need of a loud voice to defend their innocence, both against an entire community, and against the authorities who were convinced that the murders were caused by occult satanic rituals. Ron Lax, a private investigator of the place (Colin Firth), and Pam Hobbs (Reese Witherspoon), the mother of one of the missing children, both have the suspicion that all is not as it appears, and while praising the police ... the satanic murders theory doesn't make sense and can cause even more fear. Inspired by a famous true story that shocked the entire nation, film director Atom Egoyan takes us into the courtroom of one of the most disturbing cases in recent years.

Although Italy was the scene of controversial court cases, which rose to public attention and were almost morbidly followed by the media, the twists and turns that had occurred in the alternation of evidence called into question, errors in the investigation, statements extracted (under pressure) or retracted, prejudices against the accused. How can we forget, for example, "The Massacre of Ponticelli", in which three boys, just as the "West Memphis Three", were charged with the murder of two little girls. Three levels of courts that had them consecrated as the "Monsters of Ponticelli", a confused waltz of accusations and denials that did not help to shed light on a truth which still has to be found. Or, the story of Francesco Baldussu, the young farmer from Dolianova, unjustly imprisoned in 2009 on charges of murdering servo pastore [servant shepherd, or pastor?] of Donori, Alberto Corona, but acquitted in a final stage after nearly 2 years. Cases, where alternate judgments and motivations are totally in contrast, are full of uncertainties and changes of scenarios. The famous and haunting crime of Via Poma, which for many years has been marked by serious errors which could have compromised the investigation, preventing the discovery of the perpetrator of the murder of Simonetta Cesaroni and even leading to a suicide of one of several defendants. Contamination of evidence, uncertainty about the motives, prejudices about the protagonists have certainly influenced two of the most mediatic trials in Italy’s crime history in recent years: Alberto Stasi and the crime of Garlasco and the “Giallo di Perugia” in which the protagonists Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox were found guilty (in the court of public opinion) even before the verdict, for alleged strange behavior in their private lives.


http://www.myreviews.it/69878_devils-knot-prova-contraria-poster-foto-film/

Attachment:
DevilsKnot-1.jpg


Devil’s Knot (IMDb)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0804463/

Release date in different countries:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0804463/releaseinfo?ref_=tt_dt_dt

===================================================

Must say Colin Firth at 53 ... is in excellent shape and looks as good as ever. ;) :)

Attachment:
Colin Firth in Devil's Knot-1.jpg


Did you see this movie at last year's TIFF, Ergon? I don't expect the screenplay to reflect the real-life truth, but how can we know FOR SURE that the three didn't kill those kids? I have some doubt about their [the "West Memphis Three"] innocence ...


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

(( OT OT ))

For a slow Saturday, here's an excerpt from Dr Lawrence Blair's brilliant Myths, Magic and Monsters. Full episodes are nigh impossible to get. In this piece, Dr Blair looks at the recent discovery of remains of an archaic human, nicknamed "The Hobbit". He then says, okay, now let's go and meet their (likely) living descendants:




Now, it gets ramped up and we get to the "magic" part. Here we meet the great qi master John Chang:





More John Chang:



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

(( OT OT ))

And now for something completely different. Some pretty damn amazing flying by a concorde pilot aborting his landing:



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

(( OT OT ))

And finally. It is AMAZING that the recent week's most important (to the point of staggering) discovery about our solar system has had no mention in the MSM. This would be a planet ten times the size of Earth on the outer edge of our solar system!:

A new object at the edge of our Solar System discovered
Mar 26, 2014

The Solar System has a new most-distant member, bringing its outer frontier into focus.

New work from Carnegie's Scott Sheppard and Chadwick Trujillo of the Gemini Observatory reports the discovery of a distant dwarf planet, called 2012 VP113, which was found beyond the known edge of the Solar System. This is likely one of thousands of distant objects that are thought to form the so-called inner Oort cloud. What's more, their work indicates the potential presence of an enormous planet, perhaps up to 10 times the size of Earth, not yet seen, but possibly influencing the orbit of 2012 VP113, as well as other inner Oort cloud objects.

Their findings are published March 27 in Nature.

The known Solar System can be divided into three parts: the rocky planets like Earth, which are close to the Sun; the gas giant planets, which are further out; and the frozen objects of the Kuiper belt, which lie just beyond Neptune's orbit. Beyond this, there appears to be an edge to the Solar System where only one object, Sedna, was previously known to exist for its entire orbit. But the newly found 2012 VP113 has an orbit that stays even beyond Sedna, making it the furthest known in the Solar System.

"This is an extraordinary result that redefines our understanding of our Solar System," says Linda Elkins-Tanton, director of Carnegie's Department of Terrestrial Magnetism.



Sedna was discovered beyond the Kuiper Belt edge in 2003, and it was not known if Sedna was unique, as Pluto once was thought to be before the Kuiper Belt was discovered. With the discovery of 2012 VP113 it is now clear Sedna is not unique and is likely the second known member of the hypothesized inner Oort cloud, the likely origin of some comets.

2012 VP113's closest orbit point to the Sun brings it to about 80 times the distance of the Earth from the Sun, a measurement referred to as an astronomical unit or AU. For context, the rocky planets and asteroids exist at distances ranging between .39 and 4.2 AU. Gas giants are found between 5 and 30 AU, and the Kuiper belt (composed of thousands of icy objects, including Pluto) ranges from 30 to 50 AU. In our solar system there is a distinct edge at 50 AU. Only Sedna was known to stay significantly beyond this outer boundary at 76 AU for its entire orbit.


"The search for these distant inner Oort cloud objects beyond Sedna and 2012 VP113 should continue, as they could tell us a lot about how our Solar System formed and evolved," says Sheppard.

Sheppard and Trujillo used the new Dark Energy Camera (DECam) on the NOAO 4 meter telescope in Chile for discovery. DECam has the largest field-of-view of any 4-meter or larger telescope, giving it unprecedented ability to search large areas of sky for faint objects. The Magellan 6.5-meter telescope at Carnegie's Las Campanas Observatory was used to determine the orbit of 2012 VP113 and obtain detailed information about its surface properties.

From the amount of sky searched, Sheppard and Trujillo determine that about 900 objects with orbits like Sedna and 2012 VP113 with sizes larger than 1000 km may exist and that the total population of the inner Oort cloud is likely bigger than that of the Kuiper Belt and main asteroid belt.

"Some of these inner Oort cloud objects could rival the size of Mars or even Earth. This is because many of the inner Oort cloud objects are so distant that even very large ones would be too faint to detect with current technology", says Sheppard.

Both Sedna and 2012 VP113 were found near their closest approach to the Sun, but they both have orbits that go out to hundreds of AU, at which point they would be too faint to discover. In fact, the similarity in the orbits found for Sedna, 2012 VP113 and a few other objects near the edge of the Kuiper Belt suggests that an unknown massive perturbing body may be shepherding these objects into these similar orbital configurations. Sheppard and Trujillo suggest a Super Earth or an even larger object at hundreds of AU could create the shepherding effect seen in the orbits of these objects, which are too distant to be perturbed significantly by any of the known planets.



For the full article, read here: PHYSORG

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi guermantes, interesting question...does anyone have an opinion about The West Memphis Three? I really don't know. If you watch the famous HBO documentary (Paradise Lost), you'll probably think they're innocent. There are also a few pro-guilt sites on the internet though, and quite a few points that sound familiar (shaky alibis, 'coerced confession', 'sloppy police work', 'mean prosecutor', 'satanic panic', 'putting the blame on outsiders', rather extreme medical/social history on Echols' part which he played down...). It even seems like AK/her PR machine got inspired by the WM3 and their arguments somehow.
Before the murders happened, Damien Echols allegedly said that he was sure he'd be famous one day, and he's certainly touring the world with his book now.
I do like Atom Egoyan, but I probably won't watch this film (it's based on a book btw).
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Hi guermantes, interesting question...does anyone have an opinion about The West Memphis Three? I really don't know. If you watch the famous HBO documentary (Paradise Lost), you'll probably think they're innocent. There are also a few pro-guilt sites on the internet though, and quite a few points that sound familiar (shaky alibis, 'coerced confession', 'sloppy police work', 'mean prosecutor', 'satanic panic', 'putting the blame on outsiders', rather extreme medical/social history on Echols' part which he played down...). It even seems like AK/her PR machine got inspired by the WM3 and their arguments somehow.
Before the murders happened, Damien Echols allegedly said that he was sure he'd be famous one day, and he's certainly touring the world with his book now.
I do like Atom Egoyan, but I probably won't watch this film (it's based on a book btw).


I have no opinion regarding guilt or innocence of Damien Echols, Jesse Misskelley Jr. and Jason Baldwin, as I am not familiar with all the facts of the case.

I was surprised though to hear Erin Moriarty ask him if he had taken credit for the murders and he responded "he could not remember, but if he did, it was a joke".

Watch minute 15:48 from 48 Hours - West Memphis 3: Free

All I can say is that this is not something I would an innocent person expect to say.


Amanda Knox seeks support from people in the U.S. who are recognised by the public as wrongfully convicted. She has approached Damien Echols and also Ryan Ferguson with the hope they could help her get more people interested in her case.

I had a chat with Ryan Ferguson on Twitter and the poor bloke is, beside being horribly arrogant, also completely ignorant of the facts of the case. He does not know key dates of the case and he is blissfully unaware to what extent Amanda Knox has embellished her false accusation to incriminate Patrick Lumumba. In fact, Ryan Ferguson believes there is a full withdrawal of her false accusation because he cannot be bothered to actually read her statements and letters to police which would clear up any doubt very quickly.

Both, Damien Echols and Ryan Ferguson, have relied on the public for support, asking them to become interested and informed about their cases, to invest their time to support them. So excuse me if I am surprised and also unimpressed to learn that they are not willing to do the same for someone who seeks their support.

Ryan Ferguson has been briefed by Amanda Knox directly and he is content with knowing the documents are in public domain, but he has not investigated further than that and has taken Knox's word to base his opinion on.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:19 pm   Post subject: THE CROYDON CORONER'S VERDICT   

Some in the opposing camp have accused the Kerchers of 'hiring' the local coroner in Croydon to issue a verdict of unlawful death for Meredith Kercher. My reply here: http://www.examiner.com/article/amanda- ... x-reacting

"The coroner had a legal duty to investigate, so do you have any proof he was 'hired by the Kerchers', or are you guessing?


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/25/section/1

1) Duty to investigate certain deaths

(1) A
senior coroner who is made aware that the body of a deceased person is within
that coroner's area must as soon as practicable conduct an investigation into
the person's death if subsection (2) applies.

(2)This
subsection applies if the coroner has reason to suspect that—

(a)the
deceased died a violent or unnatural death."

ETA: After more shite from the same fervid Amanda Knox supporter:

manfromatlan > carlofab • 8 minutes ago

"You are ignoring what I actually wrote in favour of more drivel. And you still haven't proved your allegation the Kerchers 'hired' Dr. Palmer, for whatever purpose, you do not say. Dr. Palmer is a civil servant, and as I proved, it is his duty to record a cause of death for all bodies under his jurisdiction that died under unusual circumstances. If Meredith had died In an accident in Italy, his duty would have been exactly the same, under the act.

I find this unseemly posturing by Amanda Knox supporters and attacks on the Kercher family, as if they have done any thing wrong, to be extremely disgraceful."
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:07 pm   Post subject: ON THE WRONGFULLY CONVICTED AND THE WRONGFULLY ACQUITTED   

Since Amanda Knox has managed to corral Ryan Ferguson and Damien Echols into supporting her, and since they couldn't even be bothered to look into the evidence and case files except what she told them, then fine, we can look at their cases.

Ryan Ferguson's conviction was overturned on appeal, under the Brady Defense, where the prosecution's conduct was so egregious he very clearly did not receive a fair trial. Note, he was not found innocent, but the conviction overturned, that's all. Still, it looks like the victim was murdered by someone else, and Ryan's co-accused, lied in order to get a better deal.

Damien Echols (and the other West Memphis Three's) convictions were not overturned, they were released under an Alford Plea, where the accused maintain their innocence but acknowledge the state may have enough evidence to convict in a new trial, where the judge then sentenced them to time served. I have a harder time believing in their innocence, based especially on Damien Echols boasting to his friends he killed the three and got away with it (and threatening to kill them too), and his psychiatric records, but, in all fairness I do not think I ever would be able to convict, because there is nothing that places them at the scene of the crime, no eyewitness testimony, no disproven alibis, no false accusations of others. I give no credence to the 'new DNA evidence', of the sort now being brought up by the Innocence Exoneration Industry, and last used to exonerate the Ramseys in the Jon Benet Ramsey murder.

But Amanda Knox? The weight of the evidence is sufficient for me to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

I care deeply about all wrongful convictions. I want to see justice done, but not at the expense of an innocent person. Maybe Ryan Ferguson will get some peace from his $100 million suit against the state and career as a public speaker. Maybe Damien Echols is innocent and I hope that he will find peace, and, not forgetting the victims, but, his 18 yrs served is all we can ask at this stage. I hope the truth will come out one day.

But I'll tell them this: publicly supporting Amanda Knox only sets the cause of real Innocence Projects back, she is guilty and will have to pay the price, and so will you, in loss of credibility when it happens.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Hi guermantes, interesting question...does anyone have an opinion about The West Memphis Three? I really don't know. If you watch the famous HBO documentary (Paradise Lost), you'll probably think they're innocent. There are also a few pro-guilt sites on the internet though, and quite a few points that sound familiar (shaky alibis, 'coerced confession', 'sloppy police work', 'mean prosecutor', 'satanic panic', 'putting the blame on outsiders', rather extreme medical/social history on Echols' part which he played down...). It even seems like AK/her PR machine got inspired by the WM3 and their arguments somehow.
Before the murders happened, Damien Echols allegedly said that he was sure he'd be famous one day, and he's certainly touring the world with his book now.
I do like Atom Egoyan, but I probably won't watch this film (it's based on a book btw).


I have no opinion regarding guilt or innocence of Damien Echols, Jesse Misskelley Jr. and Jason Baldwin, as I am not familiar with the all the facts of the case.

I was surprised though to hear Erin Moriarty ask him if he had taken credit for the murders and he responded "he could not remember, but if he did, it was a joke".

Watch minute 15:48 from 48 Hours - West Memphis 3: Free

All I can say is that this is not something I would an innocent person expect to say.


Amanda Knox seeks support from people in the U.S. who are recognised by the public as wrongfully convicted. She has approached Damien Echols and also Ryan Ferguson with the hope they could help her get more people interested in her case.

I had a chat with Ryan Ferguson on Twitter and the poor bloke is, beside being horribly arrogant, also completely ignorant of the facts of the case. He does not know key dates of the case and he is blissfully unaware to what extent Amanda Knox has embellished her false accusation to incriminate Patrick Lumumba. In fact, Ryan Ferguson believes there is a full withdrawal of her false accusation because he cannot be bothered to actually read her statements and letters to police which would clear up any doubt very quickly.

Both, Damien Echols and Ryan Ferguson, have relied on the public for support, asking them to become interested and informed about their cases, to invest their time to support them. So excuse me if I am surprised and also unimpressed to learn that they are not willing to do the same for someone who seeks their support.

Ryan Ferguson has been briefed by Amanda Knox directly and he is content with knowing the documents are in public domain, but he has not investigated further than that and has taken Knox's word to base his opinion on.



Thanks for your assessments, Nell and Ergon.
And good catch, Nell. A few weeks (months?) ago I accidentally saw Damien Echols telling his fans via twitter that "I'll keep you in my blood". Kind of a weird thing to say for someone in his position, innocent or not, also reminded me of AK's (RS's) constant verbal faux pas. In interviews Echols appears to be much more eloquent and controlled than Amanda though.
I don't know all the details of the case either, but I have a feeling that the truth will never come out. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The CURSE Of Amanda Knox! Realtors Slash Price Of Murder House After Tenants Almost Die In Freak Gas Leak
Posted on Apr 7, 2014 @ 3:22AM | By Melissa Cronin
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... e-perugia/
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
The CURSE Of Amanda Knox! Realtors Slash Price Of Murder House After Tenants Almost Die In Freak Gas Leak
Posted on Apr 7, 2014 @ 3:22AM | By Melissa Cronin
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... e-perugia/

Thanks Ava. The comments are appalling. pp-(
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Harry Rag/The Machine has written a great summary of the case here. Please support. http://justice4ever.com/2014/04/amanda- ... g/#respond
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sallyoo posted this update on Judge Nencini at dotORG http://www.giornaledellumbria.it/articl ... 60297.html

Translation from Jools:

Quote:
Judge Nencini's comments to the press in the aftermath of Knox & Sollecito second conviction in the murder of Meredith Kercher by the Florence Court of Appeal the CSM has decided maybe it was «inopportuno» ill-timed, but the Judge will not be transferred.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thoughts for the 19 kids and a security guard wounded in a stabbing rampage PA high school. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/stabbing-s ... -1.2603871 What is it that causes so much mental illness to surface now? These kids are so out of balance yet no one speaks to or understands them.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The lastest from Nencini and the CSM. They basically say that it was wrong to do the interview but it was an isolated incident and he won't be replaced.
http://www.gonews.it/2014/04/09/process ... rasferito/
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox should pay homeowner for destroying property
By Chelsea Hoffman, Apr 09, 2014 at 12:30 PM PDT
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... g-property
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Is there a link to the real estate listing?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

"Al plenum arriveranno tuttavia due relazioni: quella della maggioranza, che chiede tout court di chiudere il caso, e che è stata proposta dal presidente Annibale Marini (laico del centro-destra)e votata dal laico del Pd Glauco Giostra, e dai togati Mariano Sciacca (Unicost), Paolo Carfì e Francesco Vigorito (Area); e una di minoranza, presentata dal togato di Magistratura Indipendente Antonello Racanelli, che usa toni più severi nei confronti del magistrato e, a differenza della prima, sollecita l’assemblea a trasmettere gli atti alla Commissione per gli incarichi direttivi, perché si possa tener conto di questa vicenda quando Nencini concorrerà per posti di vertice negli uffici giudiziari."

"There will be two reports from the opposition that call for outright dismissal the case. That was proposed by President Hannibal Marini (secular center-right) and passed by Glauco Carousel (Democratic Party layperson), and stipendiary Mariano Sciacca (Unicost), Paolo and Francesco Vigorito Carfì (area). There was a minority interest, presented by Antonello Racanelli (Independent Judiciary), who used most severe tones against the judge and, unlike the first report, urged the Assembly to submit the case to the Commission for management positions to prevent Nencini from eligibity in competing for future top places in the court."

This sounds to me like an acquittal of all charges for both culprits.
It sounds like the court decision was unpopular.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

been away because it's un-necessary

the players are found guilty. why is sollecito still walking around BTW?

watching pistorius trial. he deserves an oscar

haven't seen such a serial convincing liar since erm.

he has become the victim

what got me was (this week), he was told to say, rehearsed to say "i was hiding in the cupboard" after him saying he has difficulty sleeping

yes. he is a victim too. reeva steenkamp was hiding in a small space

trick: portrayal as equivalently persecuted - portrayal as the person murdered "victim too"

the situation completely separate. Equivalently traumatised.

expert. has happened in another case

"she fucking bled to death"

beating self around head -- strange psychology. ugly and fascinating to watch. a road crash

pistorius had it all he'd totally conquered his disabity -- it's a real shame.

murder. like tripping a switch - can never go back. it's all very sad

just another person who's life is now regret

but one person is evil, and laughs it off

sollecito.


Last edited by ttrroonniicc on Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:54 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Did the sole murderer slide his fingers down the knife?



Let's analyse that

Why was guede wounded by the knife, on the fingers.

Two fingers. he was parlaying a knife thrust from the shithead. From Sollecito. at some stage he'd (possibly) tried to disarm Sollecito

enough is enough. What the hell is this?

Guede the sane person. outrage. Before or after? sollecito standing with his knife. telling guede where to go. This will all be explained. Guede has been beaten up twice in prison at the behest of the shitheads "associated" father, within his criminal world.

Guede will not talk while he is in jail.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I never have really seen a 'knife' cut in that picture. It looks like a scrape maybe IMO. The other little mark doesn't look like a cut to me either.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Double Jeopardy Isn’t What You Think It Is—and It Won’t Save Amanda Knox
By Rebecca Buckwalter-Poza • April 10, 2014 • 8:00 AM
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/politic ... nox-78669/


"Those who argue that the U.S. federal government may protect Knox often claim she’s a “cause célèbre” in the United States, that most Americans think that she is innocent. But more high-profile figures have spoken out against Knox than for her, and an International Business Times poll found 29 percent of Americans think Knox is guilty while just 21 percent believe her to be innocent. Extradition doubters seem to overlook public opinion in other countries: More than half of British respondents agreed Knox is guilty, and an overwhelming majority of Italians have been convinced of her guilt all along."
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Ergon, max, Ava and everyone else for keeping us informed about the latest news. I don't always have the time these days to read all the long posts at .ORG, but saw this one by Tiziano earlier today:

Post by Tiziano » 11 Apr 2014, 08:26
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=165128#p165128
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Milan appeal court has sentenced RG to one year & four months for receiving goods from a couple of thefts going back to October 2007. Goods stolen were a laptop and a mobile phone from a Perugia legal office. The appeal decision confirms the first grade guilty finding. Guede, who was not in court, has always claimed that he bought these goods from a second-hand market, his lawyer Nicodemo Gentile said. There will be an appeal to Cassation. According to Gentile, this sentence will not delay the date when Guede will be able to apply for his first leave from prison in a few months.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the article:

Rudy Guede convicted of theft, the judgment of the Court of Milan: 1 year and 4 months

Rudy Hermann Guede already sentenced to 20 years (sic) for the murder of Meredith Kercher that occurred in Perugia, has been convicted of theft. This was decided by the Third Court of Appeal of Milan which found the defendant guilty of a couple of thefts October 27, 2007 in Milan. Accepting the request of the Attorney General Gianni Griguolo, the panel of judges has set sentencing for 1 year and 4 months.

The sentence for having received a laptop and a cell phone stolen from a lawyer's office in Perugia. The appellate courts of Milan have thus confirmed the decision of first instance. In Milan Guede was caught in an asylum on October 27, 2007, before the murder of British student. In his backpack he was carrying a PC and a mobile phone, found by agents.

"Guede, who was not at the hearing today, has always claimed to have bought them at a flea market," said to Ansa his lawyer, Nicodemo Gentile. "Our client - added the lawyer - has never been accused of the theft of the two objects. It was at most unwise to purchase them. Will appeal to the Supreme Court against the conviction."[...]


IL MESSAGGERO
---------------------------

P.S. Only 20 days left until the release/publication of the Florence Appeal Court Motivations. The long wait will soon be over. :)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Good news, guermantes, thanks! A black eye for those who say Italy let him off for the theft due to a 'special relationship' with the Perugia prosecutors.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

#amandaknox supporter thinks Italy won't request extradition next year due to political considerations http://www.allthingscrimeblog.com/2014/ ... ment-35478 I disagree.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
#amandaknox supporter thinks Italy won't request extradition next year due to political considerations http://www.allthingscrimeblog.com/2014/ ... ment-35478 I disagree.



It's called wishful thinking. It also displays a lack of understanding for how the Italian justice system works.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Thanks Ergon, max, Ava and everyone else for keeping us informed about the latest news. I don't always have the time these days to read all the long posts at .ORG, but saw this one by Tiziano earlier today:

Post by Tiziano » 11 Apr 2014, 08:26
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=165128#p165128
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Milan appeal court has sentenced RG to one year & four months for receiving goods from a couple of thefts going back to October 2007. Goods stolen were a laptop and a mobile phone from a Perugia legal office. The appeal decision confirms the first grade guilty finding. Guede, who was not in court, has always claimed that he bought these goods from a second-hand market, his lawyer Nicodemo Gentile said. There will be an appeal to Cassation. According to Gentile, this sentence will not delay the date when Guede will be able to apply for his first leave from prison in a few months.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the article:

Rudy Guede convicted of theft, the judgment of the Court of Milan: 1 year and 4 months

Rudy Hermann Guede already sentenced to 20 years (sic) for the murder of Meredith Kercher that occurred in Perugia, has been convicted of theft. This was decided by the Third Court of Appeal of Milan which found the defendant guilty of a couple of thefts October 27, 2007 in Milan. Accepting the request of the Attorney General Gianni Griguolo, the panel of judges has set sentencing for 1 year and 4 months.

The sentence for having received a laptop and a cell phone stolen from a lawyer's office in Perugia. The appellate courts of Milan have thus confirmed the decision of first instance. In Milan Guede was caught in an asylum on October 27, 2007, before the murder of British student. In his backpack he was carrying a PC and a mobile phone, found by agents.

"Guede, who was not at the hearing today, has always claimed to have bought them at a flea market," said to Ansa his lawyer, Nicodemo Gentile. "Our client - added the lawyer - has never been accused of the theft of the two objects. It was at most unwise to purchase them. Will appeal to the Supreme Court against the conviction."[...]


IL MESSAGGERO
---------------------------

P.S. Only 20 days left until the release/publication of the Florence Appeal Court Motivations. The long wait will soon be over. :)



Thanks G. Yes, this sentence will not be added onto his current sentence, since the offence is unrelated to his crimes against Meredith and is for less then two years (hence why it does not affect the date he can seek work release and parole). Only custodial sentences longer then two years result in a prison term, all those that are less are automatically suspended. It will be on his record and he'll have to pay the fine and costs though.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox: 'I've been so hated for so long'
by Cornelius Swart / KGW.com Staff KING5.com
Posted on April 11, 2014 at 12:30 PM
Updated today at 1:07 PM
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Amanda- ... 39071.html

(Mandy with glasses at an Innocence Network Conference, video)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Ava. What is Edda doing in Portland? Had Mandy brought her Mom with her as her chaperone? Does any 26 year old want her Mom around when she's attending a conference?

Photos:

http://instagram.com/p/mobS5OnEqC/#

http://instagram.com/p/mqYMzlnEh_/#
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

US students love Italy but wary after Knox case, poll says
04/10/2014

...But poll also found that more than 84% of the students surveyed said they were aware of, and frightened by, the case of Amanda Knox and cited it as a reason why they would think twice before spending a semester in Italy.


GAZZETTA DEL SUD

Knox trial puts fear into American students
Published: 11 Apr 2014 12:12 GMT+02:00

The imprisonment and trials of Amanda Knox, found guilty of murdering her British flatmate Meredith Kercher in Italy in 2007, still discourages fellow American students from studying in the country, a new survey has found.

More than 84 percent of students said that some Americans would think twice about studying in Italy following the Knox trials, according to a survey conducted by the Italy-USA Foundation in collaboration with Loyola University Chicago. Nearly 14 percent of those questioned said the murder case would definitely discourage American students, while just one percent said it wouldn’t have an impact.


THE LOCAL
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It looks like we're seeing the beginning of the Knox Camp's media assault in the run-up to the publication of Nencini's Motivations Report. Expect more in the coming days.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
Jester wrote:
Did the sole murderer slide his fingers down the knife?



Let's analyse that

Why was guede wounded by the knife, on the fingers.

Two fingers. he was parlaying a knife thrust from the shithead. From Sollecito. at some stage he'd (possibly) tried to disarm Sollecito

enough is enough. What the hell is this?

Guede the sane person. outrage. Before or after? sollecito standing with his knife. telling guede where to go. This will all be explained. Guede has been beaten up twice in prison at the behest of the shitheads "associated" father, within his criminal world.

Guede will not talk while he is in jail.


Yes. I'd like to analyse the cuts on Guede's right hand. It is a fact that in some cases, where there are multiple stab wounds, the knife will become bloody and the perpetrator's hand can accidentally slip down the knife onto the blade. The cuts could also be made by grabbing a knife defensively.

What did Guede say about the cuts?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Thanks Ava. What is Edda doing in Portland? Had Mandy brought her Mom with her as her chaperone? Does any 26 year old want her Mom around when she's attending a conference?

Photos:

http://instagram.com/p/mobS5OnEqC/#

http://instagram.com/p/mqYMzlnEh_/#


Knox looks a bit cross-eyed in those pictures. Perhaps she should stop wearing those occasional glasses. It looks like a happy reunion with Ryan and his family, Knox and her mom, and a couple of Innocent people. What's that on Edda's plate, and why is she leaning so far that Ryan's mom is nearly lost in the shadows? I'm assuming that's Ryan's mom.

What sort of conference was it? It looks like an innocence project conference, so maybe it makes sense for the parents to be interested too?

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox: When I was in prison there was so much sadness
Posted: Apr 12, 2014 8:06 AM Updated: Apr 12, 2014 8:17 AM
By Kaitlyn Bolduc
http://www.kptv.com/story/25229778/aman ... ch-sadness

"I really hope that there comes a time that society will understand where we are coming from," said Knox. "Hopefully we don't have to come to a convention once a year just to feel accepted and understood."
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox at Portland Innocence Project event
By Joel Iwanaga and KOIN 6 News Updated: Friday, April 11, 2014, 10:34 pm Published: Friday, April 11, 2014, 10:22 pm
http://koin.com/2014/04/11/amanda-knox- ... ect-event/

At the Innocence Project event, she said, “This is a family. We all understand each other.”
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Ava. It's funny, considering Knox wasn't the slightest bit interested in her fellow inmates when many of them were clearly suffering and no doubt, two or three may well have also been innocent. Now she's free, she can't seem to get enough of ex-prisoners when they have the ability to get her the sort of publicity she thinks she needs.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox, Barry Scheck at Portland Innocence Network conference -- but Jennifer Thompson shines brighter
By Bryan Denson | bdenson@oregonian.com
on April 11, 2014 at 3:25 PM, updated April 11, 2014 at 6:56 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/inde ... at_po.html

"Hundreds of people who champion the causes of wrongly convicted prisoners opened a weekend conference in Portland on Friday, a who's who of legal minds including Innocence Project co-founder Barry Scheck (one of O.J. Simpson's lawyers). Attendees included Amanda Knox (convicted and acquitted of murder after four years in an Italian prison)..."
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Offline SqueakEMouse


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Knox loves to be seen at events like the Innocence Project conference; a conference for those who have had their convictions overturned either by being declared innocent or on technical grounds. It's the usual PR attempt to blur the public's perception of her status. She has NOT been declared innocent or her conviction overturned, quite the opposite. It's just another exercise in their ongoing fraudulence. By having her seen with the likes of Ryan Ferguson at these events the PR tries to give the impression that the Hellman verdict is the definitive one and anything that happens afterwards is irrelevant, largely political and unenforceable anyway. A message that is contradicted by Knox herself who is still scrabbling around, now for help to translate court documents in the never ending battle to win public support in the belief that that will make extradition impossible. Court case as popularity contest; Puke Factor or America's Got Psychos.

Underlying all the antics is the same old PR false premise that perception equals reality. It may work in politics and in cases like OJ's where the jury were overwhelmed by the circus but I cannot see it happening here. Some of the FOAKER posters are interesting in their wishful thinking. They equate low level publicity stunts like this as indicative that she is already a cause celebre and therefore extradition would be a too hot to handle political potato. That's clearly the game. The trouble is.. she ISN'T.

Sollecito, beneath all his arrogance, has a better appreciation of his likely chances. Any marriage, any country, he's working on his escape plans.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox speaks at "Innocence" convention
Amanda Knox is back in the public eye.
By: CNN Staff, WDAY, Published April 12, 2014, 12:37 PM
http://www.wday.com/event/article/id/95743/

(Mandy and her new family, video)
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Next year they can hold the convention at Guantanamo Bay?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox, Barry Scheck at Portland Innocence Network conference -- but Jennifer Thompson shines brighter
By Bryan Denson | bdenson@oregonian.com
on April 11, 2014 at 3:25 PM, updated April 11, 2014 at 6:56 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/inde ... at_po.html

"Hundreds of people who champion the causes of wrongly convicted prisoners opened a weekend conference in Portland on Friday, a who's who of legal minds including Innocence Project co-founder Barry Scheck (one of O.J. Simpson's lawyers). Attendees included Amanda Knox (convicted and acquitted of murder after four years in an Italian prison)..."


Jennifer Thompson who wrongly accused a man then apologized and seeks redemption, and she who shall not be named, but won't pay the damages awarded? Some people don't recognize their own failings even when they are hit on the head with an 8.8 lb rock.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Guess who's giving a presentation at the conference http://www.innocencenetwork.org/confere ... nda_v7.pdf

(Saturday, April 12)
2:15pm-3:15pm (PST): Breakout Sessions Advanced DNA: Single Cell, Next Gen, and More (Pavilion East):
Presenters: Greg Hampikian, Andrea Borchardt-Gardner

"Andrea Borchardt-Gardner, Supervisor of Forensic Casework at Bode, and Dr. Greg Hampikian of the Idaho Innocence Project will share highlights from the annual meetings of Forensic Biologists and Forensic Scientists, as well updates on the newest technologies for re-investigating old cases. Topics will include single cell profiling, mixture analysis, next generation sequencing, and questions solicited from participants before the conference"

I don't know if herself was introduced at the gala dinner for exonerees since she ain't, but, she was posing with them anyway.

http://instagram.com/p/mobS5OnEqC/#

http://instagram.com/p/mqYMzlnEh_/#

I don't know that she's there in any other capacity except as an attendee though likely she'll have been featured in today's Professor Hampikian presentation.

But there is an interesting presentation here:

Litigating Outside the Courtroom: Using the International Courts (Broadway I&II):
Presenters: Thomas Antkowiak, Janis Puracal, Jason Puracal

"A three-person panel will discuss how the international courts can be used as part of the overall litigation strategy to fight a wrongful conviction. Two attorneys on the panel will focus on when and how to invoke the international courts, including the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights and the United Nations Working Group on Arbitrary Detention. They will discuss practical tips for practicing in this area and how the focus in the international arena differs from the domestic courtroom. Finally, one international exoneree will identify ways attorneys can better communicate with clients about their international rights both during and after incarceration."

May I suggest, keep your mouth shut, do what your lawyers tell you, and don't hire a PR agency and sock puppet social media as good advice to give anyone that commits a crime, locally OR internationally?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

My opinion on the eventual extradition of Amanda Knox http://justice4ever.com/2014/04/amanda- ... 1334099732
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Offline Sparkles


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi. there have been articles concerning Rudy Guede receiving another conviction of 1yr 4 months to do with the laptop theft. Anyone know the charges he was facing, actual theft or receiving stole goods or burglery as the media reports are not clear and my Italian is very very very basic.

Groupies are getting gleeful over this and I really do want the facts of the charges in order to counter. Ta ever so.... :)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi Sparkles. It was for receiving stolen goods.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

April is the roughest month for many. Thoughts of my friends, hope you are all well.
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Offline Sparkles


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thank you all for the info re guedes recent additional conviction. This really helps (big whoop to clander on pmf.org for the actual charge ricettazione which as Michael confirmed above equates to possession of stolen goods).

Groupies are really in a tizz with this one. They can't seem to get their head around it or won't. It's he's convicted of theft therefore was convicted of burglery which they like. They don't seem to like the opinion that this wipes their police informant protection theory as no charges filed which is clearly not the case. Italian legals may be slow but they seem to be throrough and get there in the end. Selective amnesia just like there heros.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Crime scene photos


As discussed earlier, the crime scene photos leaked by Jim Lovering, a close friend of the Mellas family, are not available for download anymore from the 'Friends of Amanda' website or Bruce Fischer's 'Injustice In Perugia' website.

Some case followers have downloaded the images when they were still available, but many have not. Lately the topic of the crime scene photos has come up again and we resorted to temporary storage sites to exchange the files, but the downside is that the download links expire quickly.

To remedy this problem and to find a permanent solution, we have now uploaded the files to this forum, even though I had to break the two folders down into a few to make the upload of the files flawless.

For anyone interested the crime scene photos can now be found here.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox flaunts ill-gotten freedom
Portland : OR : USA | Apr 13, 2014 at 1:05 PM PDT
By Chelsea Hoffman
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... en-freedom
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The upcoming lunar eclipse in the early morning of April 15 is making a lot of people very jittery right now. It is a time for reflection on what we can do to move forward.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Liz Houle has written an excellent article about the constant cyberbullying from Amanda Knox supporters attacking the Kerchers.

Cyberbullying the Amanda Knox way
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Knox's new (innocent) friends tweeted a couple more photos taken at the Conference in Portland:

https://twitter.com/amamaknox

Sollecito has received a couple more thousand $$$ in donations:

http://www.gofundme.com/3bct8o

:roll:
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

One of the attendees there, Brian Banks, is truly innocent. His accuser withdrew her allegations, no evidence against him, etc. http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7986 ... rian-banks

Does the Innocence Project realize how toxic Knox is to their cause?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Look out for Yummi's new article on the True Justice website. It will give a whole new perspective to the evidence.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here is Yummi/Machiavelli's absolutely masterful analysis of the bathmat footprint, in high def. True Justice For Meredith Kercher

Please circulate.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Quote:
With 16 votes in favor and 8 against, the High Council of the Judiciary has decided to close the case of Judge Alexander Nencini that in the aftermath of the conviction of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito for the murder of Meredith Kercher released statements deemed "inappropriate"

http://www.direttanews.it/2014/04/16/me ... to-e-knox/
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Here is Yummi/Machiavelli's absolutely masterful analysis of the bathmat footprint, in high def. True Justice For Meredith Kercher

Please circulate.

Great. Yummi spent a lot of time on that analysis and makes it pretty easy for everyone to see that it is Sollecito's footprint. What I miss is the Crimescope pictures which I believe to be the blueish pic on the bottom right of the photo RS is holding here. They also make it easy to see that it is one big toe and not as some groupies want us to believe Guede's 2nd toe and big toe pressed together (never mind he got a space between his toes) to exactly the size as Sollecito's big toe. Amazing!

Massei says:"Finally, there is a piece of data which the Court has incontrovertibly adopted: the same images of the bathmat, shown in deepened colours by the lighting equipment of the Crimescope, do actually increase the impression of solidity of the size of the big toe (and also of the metatarsus), and augment the perception of the unity with the rest of the small mark whose detachment was suggested."
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I had a good laugh when I looked at JREF (must have been bored). They are still trying to convince themselves that a 3 hour delay till the start of gastric emptying somehow is probable..lol.. Even though the literature says it is half an hour (give or take 10 mins). But no, somehow Meredith was a medical case that had a 3 hour delay. I wonder if these people never pay attention to how their stomach feels right after they eat, after half an hour, after 3 hours. It is rather obvious that a stomach does not stay a 100% full for 3 hours. The alternative that Meredith had something to eat at the cottage is a lot more likely, although I suspect that Professor Umani Ronchi was right and that the empty duodenum should be ignored.

Massei says:
"Besides this, the alimentary remnants in the small intestine must also be considered, and thus, as hypothesized by Professor Umani Ronchi, it would be possible to think that these remnants could have been found in the duodenum either because of an imperfect apposition of the ligatures, or because of an apposition of the ligatures that took place with such manner and timing as to make it impossible to avoid a sliding of material from the duodenum to the small intestine. The fact [that the] duodenum [is] empty is not [necessarily] fully reliable."
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:21 am   Post subject: ADMINISTRATOR NOTE!   

Administrator Note:

Hi everyone. Over the past few hours PMF has suffered some serious downtime and has only come back online during the past hour. This has been due to a bug in the firmware of our hosts which caused a blackout across multiple servers, including ours. They are still working on the bug and the system is slowly getting back to normal, but do expect over the next few hours for the site to occasionally work below par. This will be until they've fully fixed the issue. I would advise, that for the next 24 hours or so, members to write their posts in an external text editor first so as to ensure posts are not lost, just to be safe.

Thank You

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Here is Yummi/Machiavelli's absolutely masterful analysis of the bathmat footprint, in high def. True Justice For Meredith Kercher

Please circulate.

Thanks to Yummi for the great piece. The wide toe is visible and follows the line of Sollecito's and is interrupted only by the lower mat. The opposite scenario that Guede made the print with his more slender toe is clearly not the case with what Yummi lays out. The slimmer toe did not roll to the right and make the wider print or we would have evidence of weight on the other 4 toes. The police prints of both men have them bearing weight on the whole foot where we see the toes. The mat sample shows an incomplete and smaller print with a lean towards the instep. Even with this lean and the lower mat the outline of the top of the fat toe is there.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell has been doing battle with Bruce Fischer here http://www.examiner.com/article/cyberbu ... a-knox-way ; do, please, check it out.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Poor Bruiser angel-) .
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:14 am   Post subject: FAREWELL, OLD FRIEND   

Nobel Laureate Gabriel Garcia Marquez Mar 06, 1927-Apr 17, 2014 passed away today in Mexico City. Never met him, but his books were all I needed to know about him. RIP, old friend. Your magic will be missed.
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Offline zinnia


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Nell has been doing battle with Bruce Fischer here http://www.examiner.com/article/cyberbu ... a-knox-way ; do, please, check it out.


OMG, Nell is so patient and composed. You go girl! I read the entire thread and became exhausted!
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zinnia wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Nell has been doing battle with Bruce Fischer here http://www.examiner.com/article/cyberbu ... a-knox-way ; do, please, check it out.


OMG, Nell is so patient and composed. You go girl! I read the entire thread and became exhausted!


Thank you zinnia.

Every time Bruce Fischer explains the "artifact from the tile seam", I can only shake my head. What is clearly the border of Meredith's bra strap is described by him as "the part where Meredith's shoulder stopped making contact with the tile". It is embarrassing.

He even repeated his false claim that Giuliano Mignini is responsible for Frank Sfarzo's legal troubles in Italy.

I believe after the Sfarzogate debacle, Bruce Fischer lost all his pride. He knows it's obvious now he's lying. It's painful to watch.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Here is Yummi/Machiavelli's absolutely masterful analysis of the bathmat footprint, in high def. True Justice For Meredith Kercher

Please circulate.

Thanks to Yummi for the great piece. The wide toe is visible and follows the line of Sollecito's and is interrupted only by the lower mat. The opposite scenario that Guede made the print with his more slender toe is clearly not the case with what Yummi lays out. The slimmer toe did not roll to the right and make the wider print or we would have evidence of weight on the other 4 toes. The police prints of both men have them bearing weight on the whole foot where we see the toes. The mat sample shows an incomplete and smaller print with a lean towards the instep. Even with this lean and the lower mat the outline of the top of the fat toe is there.


Yummi's analysis is excellent and very comprehensive. I recommend it to everyone.

Thanks to Yummi for the article, it must have been a very time consuming task.
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