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XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Aranavachi wrote:
Absolutely, but to me even if RS says he cannot remember whether she was at his house, that would be throwing her away.

RS now knows that he is not America's child - despite all the promises, NO ONE in the States defended him. All this time he was 'honor bound' in the hope of gaining American support. I think not only is RS over vouching for AK - he no longer cares what the US public think about him. He has started playing the 'Italian Boy' card (Italian girlfriend, Italian family, Italian X Y Z).

He has now said all these things:
- he didn't know Amanda that well and therefore he cannot judge what she could and could not do
- there is no evidence against him, but some evidence against Amanda
- he doesn't want to be convicted because of her behavior
- he is focusing on his family and friends and does not feel the need to speak to his co-defendant


I was about to say that Aranavachi. I agree with you and Cape. He has definitely changed his tune. He has said a few times already that they are in very different situations and going different paths.

In one of the recent articles, Sollecito said she alone is responsible for her declarations when asked about her handwritten statements at the police station. He says he cannot accuse her, because he knows nothing. He does not remember.

That does not sound like a good alibi to me.

Amanda e ancora lei, quasi un’ossessione: «Il suo memoriale? Non so come è andata. Non sono io il responsabile delle sue dichiarazioni. Non posso accusarla perché non so nulla. Devo essere sincero: non ho alcun ricordo di quella serata senza di lei. Insomma, non ricordo».

When asked if she is a "luciferina", he responds he cannot say for sure, in the end, he only knew her for a short time.

L’ho conosciuta per così poco tempo che non posso esprimere un giudizio definitivo.

La Stampa: Sollecito: “Se un interrogatorio poteva scagionarmi perché non chiederlo?”
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
Aranavachi wrote:
This is a very different tune of 'Amanda and I' which he played over the past couple of years...I may be wrong, but it seems obvious to me that although he hasn't yet come to a stage where he is throwing her under the bus, he is definitely saying 'I don't know what she did and where she was, but i didn't do it'

He has thrown her under the bus again. As with Knox, the events surrounding that night he has managed to shroud in vagueness - Knox managed to get her vagueness accepted. Knox's judgement through MSM is authority.

Sollecito has been using her line of subjectivity "my mind thought", or "the cannabis".

He's destroyed her credibility completely by saying again that he has absolutely no idea whether she was with him or not that night, after restating formally that she was with him; long elaborate story of their night together. Knox wrote her own story around him.

He's desperate - what more will he say. He is now threatening Knox and he has nothing to lose by doing it.


As you say, he has nothing to lose anymore. He cannot avoid prison should it come to that. Knox has reportedly not given a damn about him, not responding to his text messages and turning his arranged sham marriage proposal down.

It doesn't look good for them.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
Jackie wrote:
dgfred wrote:
That is strange... I guess I could be the freak of freaks.


With people like Supernazi and geebee in the running, you don't have the slightest chance of winning that title, DG!

Besides, aren't you're one of the cool kids who played college ball?!


Yes, college baseball but not the cool part. I am a weird mixture.

Since I was young... my facinations were with sports, military stuff/history and animals.
Made all A's in High School but played football/baseball and partied alot. My friends gave me hell for the good grades but I was good at getting my work done before the party. I was kind of in both the geek and jock groups.
Majored in Political Science and Business in college, then went to work for my dad in his Insurance Agency. Still there after 20+ years. Married with one daughter age 23. Play war-games on the PC, study crime cases/forums and military forums, play fantasy sports, coach 13-15 boy's baseball in the summer, smoke, listen to classic rock, watch sports and other TV, go fishing, play golf a few times a year, LOVE my animals (1 mini-wiener dog, 5 cats), hang out with my daughter, and get older.
Really rather boring and average for the most part. Tried to be cool for awhile... but gave up years ago.

How about you without any pertinant details?


College ball ... I was right. That makes you one of the cool kids, DG. You can't 'out freak' Supernazi with that on your record!

In fact, it sounds like you're the dictionary definition of 'well-rounded'.

As for me, what can I say? I'd hate to give ammunition to anyone behind The Fur Curtain LOL (If you're not being insulted and/or defamed back there, you're just not trying hard enough!)

Let's see ... I'm married to a beautiful, brilliant and talented young woman who is kind enough to tolerate my obsession with this case, which I would not have developed if I'd never gone to law school (the PR spin is just so ... offensive to any serious legal scholar). I've got 3 brothers (2 docs and an aspiring film maker). In my undergrad days, I was a frat boy :twisted: As a kid, I played baseball, soccer and hockey, and did a lot of swimming and skiing. I'm into road races and triathlons, but don't get the wrong idea: I'm a 'Clydesdale' and I've blown out both knees so I'd describe myself as more of a 'participant' than a 'competitor' LOL - I just try not to embarrass myself within my age group. I'm also getting into snowboarding, surfing and sailing. In terms of music, I can find things I like in almost any genre - recently, I had a religious experience driving my brother's new Audi R8 and listening to this:

Hidden Content: show


The R8 is a helluva car, I tell ya. And with that song... Would make for a good ad.

Which reminds me, that's the only interest my bro ever took in this case - he laughed when I showed him the wiki page that used to quote the cook's description of Raffles' entry-level A3 (she called it a "very expensive Audi"). I should have been a doctor ;-)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Is Frederick Forsyth losing his marbles?

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/column ... e#comments


Jaybee..

He's just jumping on what he thinks is the * popular* Bandwagon. I think it's been too much news..too soon. What Americans call * over exposure*. There is still 90 days or so to go. It's going to be over done by that stage.

HUGE mistake to saturate the market immediately. By the time 3 months arrives...it's going to so old in the Media.

You can't pop a balloon when it's already deflated. As far as Raff is concerned...I think * Pop goes the Weasel * :)

I really think that there's a reason for delays. People forget..it lacks impetus. For now..it's a nine day wonder. Let's see in 90 DAYS!!

It will be an anti-climax when the verdict is upheld. What then? The same old rhetoric..which will be so p-((( by that time.

Timing is everything. They've blown it by going over their same old BS. Ad nauseum. Which, btw..for the * guilters* :)

Is EXCELLENT.



Hi Cape. Bang on point. We know just how loooong it is, waiting for the Motivations Report to be published, then long after that the wait for the defence, prosecution and victim's teams to write out and publish their appeals to the next level court, and then a whole long wait for the High Court hearing. That's a very long time for the FOAKer propaganda super tanker to keep on course and with momentum. After all, really, just how many more interviews with Knox and Sollecito and their families + shills can they keep publishing, when there is nothing new or of interest for them to say? Repetition is not "news". And just how many more interviews can be titled "Amanda Knox Speaks Out", when all she does is speak out at every opportunity (and painful indeed it is to watch and listen to)? Ages ago as it was, the impression I got as an observer was that the American general public don't really give two hoots about the "Amanda Knox Story" and were actually bored silly with her coming up again and again in the media. And as it is, many areas of the US media also long ago lost interest. Case in point...before Knox's release, her family was invited onto Oprah (arguably, the biggest chat show host in the States). Yet, after that, Oprah lost interest. One would have thought she would have asked Knox to come on the show, after having her family. But no, no interest. And the US public care about Sollecito even less.

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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I've a little something more to say. Sollecito went to trial in the first case because multiple courts in addition to a deeper examination by Judge Micheli, had determined there was case substantive enough against him to warrant a trial. That trial then found him guilty, unanimously, on all charges except for the theft of the cash and credit cards. So, Sollecito was not in front of Nencini as an innocent man, but as a provisionally guilty defendant attempting to overturn his guilty conviction. Therefore, this meant that in terms of demonstrating his innocence, the ball was in his court, a ball he refused to play. The defence did their best, but the fact is their arguments were (over the course of all hearings) ad hoc and contradictory (Raffaele was home watching Amelie...no, he was home downloading a video...no, he was home watching a cartoon...no, he was at home on the phone to his dad...no, he was writing emails...no, he was doing coursework on his computer, etc, etc). And of course, the defence couldn't do better because they weren't at the cottage that night, they weren't at Raffaele's apartment nor at any place in between the two places. It therefore required something extra, Sollecito himself to offer some sort of definitive explanation from his own mouth, something Sollecito had always elected not to do, not in a setting where he could be cross-examined by all parties. Therefore, Nencini was left with no choice but to deny the request to split the trial and also to confirm Massei's guilty verdicts.


Seems your English sensibilities are showing:

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
1994 c. 33
Part III
Inferences from accused’s silence
Section 35 (2)

"...the court shall, at the conclusion of the evidence for the prosecution, satisfy itself (...in the presence of the jury) that the accused is aware that the stage has been reached at which evidence can be given for the defence and that he can, if he wishes, give evidence and that, if he chooses not to give evidence, ..., it will be permissible for the court or jury to draw such inferences as appear proper from his failure to give evidence ..."
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
ttrroonniicc wrote:
Aranavachi wrote:
This is a very different tune of 'Amanda and I' which he played over the past couple of years...I may be wrong, but it seems obvious to me that although he hasn't yet come to a stage where he is throwing her under the bus, he is definitely saying 'I don't know what she did and where she was, but i didn't do it'

He has thrown her under the bus again. As with Knox, the events surrounding that night he has managed to shroud in vagueness - Knox managed to get her vagueness accepted. Knox's judgement through MSM is authority.

Sollecito has been using her line of subjectivity "my mind thought", or "the cannabis".

He's destroyed her credibility completely by saying again that he has absolutely no idea whether she was with him or not that night, after restating formally that she was with him; long elaborate story of their night together. Knox wrote her own story around him.

He's desperate - what more will he say. He is now threatening Knox and he has nothing to lose by doing it.


As you say, he has nothing to lose anymore. He cannot avoid prison should it come to that. Knox has reportedly not given a damn about him, not responding to his text messages and turning his arranged sham marriage proposal down.

It doesn't look good for them.


He doesn't have much to gain though, either. I mean, if he wants to change his story in any substantive way the place to do that was in the court. Now, that ship has sailed. No, what's going on here is not Sollecito acting off his own back (for a change), this is a strategy coordinated by his legal team and as those bars are getting closer, he's finally listening to them and playing ball. The move here is to attempt to impeach Nencini's appeal as biased and unprofessional in a play to try and get the High Court to throw it out. They want to get it annulled..."The High Court have already annulled one appeal, why then not a second?". In that event, it gets knocked back down to the second degree court. Of course, they can never win in a fair trial against the evidence, they know that. But "perhaps" THEY CAN RUN THE CLOCK OUT. Bongiorno has already won one trial before because the clock ran out. It's a forlorn hope, but it's actually the only hope they have, so they have to go at it with guns blazing. This is why Edda's also jumping on board this train (her attacking the "prejudice" of Nencini's court), she's been briefed on the strategy and will know, if the clock runs out for Sollecito in the process, so it also does for Amanda as they are both locked into the same process. I anticipate this strategy to continue in ernest and expect a lot of smearing of Nencini and his court in the MSM (as was done to Mignini).

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jackie wrote:
Michael wrote:
I've a little something more to say. Sollecito went to trial in the first case because multiple courts in addition to a deeper examination by Judge Micheli, had determined there was case substantive enough against him to warrant a trial. That trial then found him guilty, unanimously, on all charges except for the theft of the cash and credit cards. So, Sollecito was not in front of Nencini as an innocent man, but as a provisionally guilty defendant attempting to overturn his guilty conviction. Therefore, this meant that in terms of demonstrating his innocence, the ball was in his court, a ball he refused to play. The defence did their best, but the fact is their arguments were (over the course of all hearings) ad hoc and contradictory (Raffaele was home watching Amelie...no, he was home downloading a video...no, he was home watching a cartoon...no, he was at home on the phone to his dad...no, he was writing emails...no, he was doing coursework on his computer, etc, etc). And of course, the defence couldn't do better because they weren't at the cottage that night, they weren't at Raffaele's apartment nor at any place in between the two places. It therefore required something extra, Sollecito himself to offer some sort of definitive explanation from his own mouth, something Sollecito had always elected not to do, not in a setting where he could be cross-examined by all parties. Therefore, Nencini was left with no choice but to deny the request to split the trial and also to confirm Massei's guilty verdicts.


Seems your English sensibilities are showing:

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
1994 c. 33
Part III
Inferences from accused’s silence
Section 35 (2)

"...the court shall, at the conclusion of the evidence for the prosecution, satisfy itself (...in the presence of the jury) that the accused is aware that the stage has been reached at which evidence can be given for the defence and that he can, if he wishes, give evidence and that, if he chooses not to give evidence, ..., it will be permissible for the court or jury to draw such inferences as appear proper from his failure to give evidence ..."



Hi Jackie. Well, what I said just seemed like common sense and logic to me, I've had no formal training or study in the law (other then what I've learned in following this case). I'm therefore, much gratified that my reasoning is in accord with an actual statute :)

As a professional and experienced lawyer, it's great to have you here. You bring understanding by your posting of quotes from the law books and legal precedents which are always presented in such a clear way, that us laymen are able to grasp the essential principles. Although, I hazard, for a professional lawyer teaching laymen, the explaining of legal principles and statutes is the "easy" part, the hardest part (if not impossible) is to teach laymen how to look at a case with the perspective of a lawyer and that's how this case has to be looked at sometimes to get the required illumination. Fortunately, we have professional lawyers around, such as yourself, to do that for us :)

I have always found the law intriguing. I've always felt that I would make a good lawyer, insofar as I can see the weaknesses and strengths in a case and argue a case well. But, I "know", that I'd actually make for a terrible lawyer. I'm an idealist. I would want to pick and choose my cases...the worthy causes, the "fighting for right". When I watch films like "The Amistad" or "The Rainmaker", that's when I look and say "Yes, I'd love to be a lawyer, a lawyer right there". But as a lawyer, one must have had many years of successful lawyering before one can be in a position of having the luxury of being able to pick and choose ones cases. I think I would last a matter of mere weeks, at most, before my heart withered away. I would need an "Amistad" case at least within the first 5 or 6 weeks of passing the bar :)

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Guermantes quoting Quintavalle wrote:
So never in doubt ?
"Someone tried to make me change my version , even a British journalist , who was among the innocentisti , accused me of being a liar , when he came to interview me in my shop, along with a friend of Amanda, who was trying to get me to say that I was wrong . He asked me earnestly if I was sure that in life you can not go wrong , I replied that of course it is possible, but on that occasion I was sure of the contrary . "



So, right here, we have a clear case of witness tampering! Harassing witnesses to make them change their testimony??? I wonder...did they also do that with Sollecito's ex-cleaning lady to have her contradict Quintavalle's testimony? Did they also do that with Sllecito's current cleaning lady at the time, to make her change her testimony about the bleach? The tampering in this case, throughout, stinks!


Nara Capezzali received a visit from Knox supporters too.

Amanda Knox supporters said she was deaf and confused. I remember comments from Frank Sfarzo ridiculing her. Paul Ciolino visited her too with a woman to translate for him, Giulia Alagna.

Link to video: http://youtu.be/Nd-Th8lIxyo

They claimed police never talked to her, yet she testified during the trial. Peter Van Sant and Paul Ciolino presented her as an unreliable witness, despite the fact that her testimony was confirmed by Monacchia Antonella and, involuntarily, by Amanda Knox, who also described the scream in her statements to police.



Absolutely! Fortunately, she had the measure of Ciolino as soon as he appeared at her window and he didn't get past her front door. Had he have done so, I've no doubt that he would have attempted to influence her testimony. Instead, he had to settle for trying to discredit her testimony. But, there's been more of course. Who can forget Christian, whom the FOAKers love to tout at every opportunity even though he was soundly discredited by Micheli. Who "found" Christian and had him come forward and testify? Frank Sforza! Sforza also visited Quintevalle's shop and gave him the third degree, and then in his blog declared him "unreliable". Ditto with Curatolo, whom on his blog he dubbed "Toto". Then there's the allegations by the jailhouse snitch that his false testimony was due to his being bribed with cash by none other then Bongiorno herself. Then there's the Albanian witness, who claimed he was offered money to shut his mouth and get out of the country. The Sollecito's, caught conspiring to use their political friends to have prominent police officers removed from the investigation. Butter knives being planted in the cottage garden. Break-ins, into the sealed cottage. Oh, and let's not forget Barro, who actually got caught on video tape being paid cash (or negotiating the cash, at least) to testify against Rudy. And these are only the things that we've got to hear about. I would actually be extremely surprised if there isn't far more that we've not heard about. This case stinks and all the bad smell comes from the defence side.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
ttrroonniicc wrote:
Aranavachi wrote:
This is a very different tune of 'Amanda and I' which he played over the past couple of years...I may be wrong, but it seems obvious to me that although he hasn't yet come to a stage where he is throwing her under the bus, he is definitely saying 'I don't know what she did and where she was, but i didn't do it'

He has thrown her under the bus again. As with Knox, the events surrounding that night he has managed to shroud in vagueness - Knox managed to get her vagueness accepted. Knox's judgement through MSM is authority.

Sollecito has been using her line of subjectivity "my mind thought", or "the cannabis".

He's destroyed her credibility completely by saying again that he has absolutely no idea whether she was with him or not that night, after restating formally that she was with him; long elaborate story of their night together. Knox wrote her own story around him.

He's desperate - what more will he say. He is now threatening Knox and he has nothing to lose by doing it.


As you say, he has nothing to lose anymore. He cannot avoid prison should it come to that. Knox has reportedly not given a damn about him, not responding to his text messages and turning his arranged sham marriage proposal down.

It doesn't look good for them.


He doesn't have much to gain though, either. I mean, if he wants to change his story in any substantive way the place to do that was in the court. Now, that ship has sailed. No, what's going on here is not Sollecito acting off his own back (for a change), this is a strategy coordinated by his legal team and as those bars are getting closer, he's finally listening to them and playing ball. The move here is to attempt to impeach Nencini's appeal as biased and unprofessional in a play to try and get the High Court to throw it out. They want to get it annulled..."The High Court have already annulled one appeal, why then not a second?". In that event, it gets knocked back down to the second degree court. Of course, they can never win in a fair trial against the evidence, they know that. But "perhaps" THEY CAN RUN THE CLOCK OUT. Bongiorno has already won one trial before because the clock ran out. It's a forlorn hope, but it's actually the only hope they have, so they have to go at it with guns blazing. This is why Edda's also jumping on board this train (her attacking the "prejudice" of Nencini's court), she's been briefed on the strategy and will know, if the clock runs out for Sollecito in the process, so it also does for Amanda as they are both locked into the same process. I anticipate this strategy to continue in ernest and expect a lot of smearing of Nencini and his court in the MSM (as was done to Mignini).


I am sure that would be his first choice, but Raffaele Sollecito has said in an interview with La Stampa that he does not remember. That's a bit too vague for a solid alibi, especially since both have claimed over the years that they have always agreed on one story.

If he was sure during the trial to have spent the night with Knox, he does not seem to be sure now. That hardly benefits them.

He also confirms that Knox's behaviour was "peculiar" and that there was no evidence implicating him and "not very strong evidence" implicating her. That is an odd thing to say when you both stand trial for murder and are joint at the hip.

He could have criticised Nencini without making any references to Knox. What he is doing doesn't make sense to me.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
I do believe Raffles is warming up to throwing Knox under the bus. I'm sure of it. Is it too late? I don't know..but the idea is in the works,I believe.Whether or not extradition works..it would be a killer blow. Forget PR at that point.

In fact..the PR campaign is on dead legs. Say what you will...people know there's no smoke without fire. Lots of twists and turns still to come. Throw Guede into the mix.......

As a matter of fact..the one in the best position at the mo..is Guede. If I was Knox I'd be very,very worried. Two potential tell all's out there. I don't like her odds..at all.


No matter what he says now, the 25 yr. sentence is still, unchanged, and likely will be confirmed by the Supreme Court next year. Looks like he's getting resigned to being imprisoned. 10 yrs. from now, he'll be out. But will he drag Amanda down with him? I doubt there'll be a full confession, which would throw a spanner in her attempts to avoid extradition, I am thinking. No, he'll just whine till the Supreme Court rules.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
Is Frederick Forsyth losing his marbles?

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/column ... e#comments


No, he's a novelist. Funny how the likes of Patricia Cornwell, Douglas Preston, and Frederick Forsyth become such experts in the case, supported not by actual research but ready to hand confirmation of prior prejudices. This sort of writing suggests how writers become hacks, they lose the ability for original writing and write, just to keep themselves in the public eye. Sorry, but I have no desire to read any of Mr. Forsyth's books; his best, Day Of The Jackal, was written 33 yrs. ago :)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
He also confirms that Knox's behaviour was "peculiar" and that there was no evidence implicating him and "not very strong evidence" implicating her. That is an odd thing to say when you both stand trial for murder and are joint at the hip.

He could have criticised Nencini without making any references to Knox. What he is doing doesn't make sense to me.


What they want, is the appeal annulled and a new appeal granted, in which the President of the Court will agree to split the trial. The reason they want to split the trial is because there is evidence that is specifically against Knox that is not, or at least not necessarily, against Sollecito. It means there's less evidence they have to fight. If they have to combat less evidence, then they have more chance of winning acquittal for Sollecito based on reasonable doubt. It's still a tall order, even then, but it's "possible". For sure, they know that if they have to tackle ALL the evidence, they don't stand a chance. In addition, as I suggested before, a new appeal may cause an even better result...running the clock out.

They are in a position where their backs are against the wall, as they have few options. This strategy actually gives them a possible path, where there are no other paths, off of the main road that leads only in the direction of the dead end of the High Court approving Nencini's sentence.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
ttrroonniicc wrote:
Aranavachi wrote:
This is a very different tune of 'Amanda and I' which he played over the past couple of years...I may be wrong, but it seems obvious to me that although he hasn't yet come to a stage where he is throwing her under the bus, he is definitely saying 'I don't know what she did and where she was, but i didn't do it'

He has thrown her under the bus again. As with Knox, the events surrounding that night he has managed to shroud in vagueness - Knox managed to get her vagueness accepted. Knox's judgement through MSM is authority.

Sollecito has been using her line of subjectivity "my mind thought", or "the cannabis".

He's destroyed her credibility completely by saying again that he has absolutely no idea whether she was with him or not that night, after restating formally that she was with him; long elaborate story of their night together. Knox wrote her own story around him.

He's desperate - what more will he say. He is now threatening Knox and he has nothing to lose by doing it.


As you say, he has nothing to lose anymore. He cannot avoid prison should it come to that. Knox has reportedly not given a damn about him, not responding to his text messages and turning his arranged sham marriage proposal down.

It doesn't look good for them.


He doesn't have much to gain though, either. I mean, if he wants to change his story in any substantive way the place to do that was in the court. Now, that ship has sailed. No, what's going on here is not Sollecito acting off his own back (for a change), this is a strategy coordinated by his legal team and as those bars are getting closer, he's finally listening to them and playing ball. The move here is to attempt to impeach Nencini's appeal as biased and unprofessional in a play to try and get the High Court to throw it out. They want to get it annulled..."The High Court have already annulled one appeal, why then not a second?". In that event, it gets knocked back down to the second degree court. Of course, they can never win in a fair trial against the evidence, they know that. But "perhaps" THEY CAN RUN THE CLOCK OUT. Bongiorno has already won one trial before because the clock ran out. It's a forlorn hope, but it's actually the only hope they have, so they have to go at it with guns blazing. This is why Edda's also jumping on board this train (her attacking the "prejudice" of Nencini's court), she's been briefed on the strategy and will know, if the clock runs out for Sollecito in the process, so it also does for Amanda as they are both locked into the same process. I anticipate this strategy to continue in ernest and expect a lot of smearing of Nencini and his court in the MSM (as was done to Mignini).


I am sure that would be his first choice, but Raffaele Sollecito has said in an interview with La Stampa that he does not remember. That's a bit too vague for a solid alibi, especially since both have claimed over the years that they have always agreed on one story.

If he was sure during the trial to have spent the night with Knox, he does not seem to be sure now. That hardly benefits them.

He also confirms that Knox's behaviour was "peculiar" and that there was no evidence implicating him and "not very strong evidence" implicating her. That is an odd thing to say when you both stand trial for murder and are joint at the hip.

He could have criticised Nencini without making any references to Knox. What he is doing doesn't make sense to me.


Thats exactly how I read it Nell. He is trying to get his appeal overturned and only his appeal. Doing this by claiming he was only convicted because of Amanda's peculiar behavior and the 'not strong' evidence against her.

I agree with you Michael on the point that Bongiorno wants the clock to run out (I don't think there is any limitation on a murder charge, but nonetheless time fades everything). I say this especially because Bongiorno said 'we will ping pong this with the Supreme Court' for as 'long as it takes' to get the desired result... rt-))

I don't think they want Knox on this wagon! They would like her conviction confirmed and to get her off their backs (she won't squeal because she will be busy fighting extradition, so its a safe game) - then they don't have to deal with the confessions and evidence against her (hoping it will fade)... I dare say this will only work to emphasize the DNA on the bra and the footprint evidence.

ETA: I think Nencini is just the tool. Edda is trying to jump onto this game play, but Nencini never said anything of bias against Amanda, so if its a long shot for RS, its a no go for AK to get another appeal based on his comments. Maybe if they show bias, they can say it was general bias and overturn the whole appeal (this is where my knowledge of the Law and the Italian system fails me....


Last edited by Aranavachi on Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
capealadin wrote:
I do believe Raffles is warming up to throwing Knox under the bus. I'm sure of it. Is it too late? I don't know..but the idea is in the works,I believe.Whether or not extradition works..it would be a killer blow. Forget PR at that point.

In fact..the PR campaign is on dead legs. Say what you will...people know there's no smoke without fire. Lots of twists and turns still to come. Throw Guede into the mix.......

As a matter of fact..the one in the best position at the mo..is Guede. If I was Knox I'd be very,very worried. Two potential tell all's out there. I don't like her odds..at all.


No matter what he says now, the 25 yr. sentence is still, unchanged, and likely will be confirmed by the Supreme Court next year. Looks like he's getting resigned to being imprisoned. 10 yrs. from now, he'll be out. But will he drag Amanda down with him? I doubt there'll be a full confession, which would throw a spanner in her attempts to avoid extradition, I am thinking. No, he'll just whine till the Supreme Court rules.


Sollecito is also intensely jealous of Rudy, looking at the possibility of his gaining work release this year and beginning parole hearings. Raffaele feels very hard done by :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
He also confirms that Knox's behaviour was "peculiar" and that there was no evidence implicating him and "not very strong evidence" implicating her. That is an odd thing to say when you both stand trial for murder and are joint at the hip.

He could have criticised Nencini without making any references to Knox. What he is doing doesn't make sense to me.


What they want, is the appeal annulled and a new appeal granted, in which the President of the Court will agree to split the trial. The reason they want to split the trial is because there is evidence that is specifically against Knox that is not, or at least not necessarily, against Sollecito. It means there's less evidence they have to fight. If they have to combat less evidence, then they have more chance of winning acquittal for Sollecito based on reasonable doubt. It's still a tall order, even then, but it's "possible". For sure, they know that if they have to tackle ALL the evidence, they don't stand a chance. In addition, as I suggested before, a new appeal may cause an even better result...running the clock out.

They are in a position where their backs are against the wall, as they have few options. This strategy actually gives them a possible path, where there are no other paths, off of the main road that leads only in the direction of the dead end of the High Court approving Nencini's sentence.


Sorry Michael, didn't see this post when I posted pretty much the same thing as you are saying.

What do you mean by the clock running out? Thats the part I do not understand, in the common law legal systems there is no such clock on a charge as serious as murder, rape etc...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Aranavachi wrote:
I agree with you Michael on the point that Bongiorno wants the clock to run out (I don't think there is any limitation on a murder charge, but nonetheless time fades everything). I say this especially because Bongiorno said 'we will ping pong this with the Supreme Court' for as 'long as it takes' to get the desired result...


Bongiorno hates to lose. She doesn't really give a damn about Sollecito, but she does care a GREAT deal about her professional reputation. And the extremely high fee she charges? She is accustomed to the lifestyle that affords her. It becomes difficult to extract such a large fee from new clients when you have such a high profile case loss in your locker. And she also wants the prominent, famous clients. They not only raise her profile and bring cash, they are people who potentially provide her with political and business favours/contacts. It's about power. They will go to the lawyer that wins their cases, not one that loses cases like this one. And this is a very high profile case, the whole Italian and English speaking worlds are watching this case. Bongiorno will fight this to the death.

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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
ttrroonniicc wrote:
Aranavachi wrote:
This is a very different tune of 'Amanda and I' which he played over the past couple of years...I may be wrong, but it seems obvious to me that although he hasn't yet come to a stage where he is throwing her under the bus, he is definitely saying 'I don't know what she did and where she was, but i didn't do it'

He has thrown her under the bus again. As with Knox, the events surrounding that night he has managed to shroud in vagueness - Knox managed to get her vagueness accepted. Knox's judgement through MSM is authority.

Sollecito has been using her line of subjectivity "my mind thought", or "the cannabis".

He's destroyed her credibility completely by saying again that he has absolutely no idea whether she was with him or not that night, after restating formally that she was with him; long elaborate story of their night together. Knox wrote her own story around him.

He's desperate - what more will he say. He is now threatening Knox and he has nothing to lose by doing it.


As you say, he has nothing to lose anymore. He cannot avoid prison should it come to that. Knox has reportedly not given a damn about him, not responding to his text messages and turning his arranged sham marriage proposal down.

It doesn't look good for them.


He doesn't have much to gain though, either. I mean, if he wants to change his story in any substantive way the place to do that was in the court. Now, that ship has sailed. No, what's going on here is not Sollecito acting off his own back (for a change), this is a strategy coordinated by his legal team and as those bars are getting closer, he's finally listening to them and playing ball. The move here is to attempt to impeach Nencini's appeal as biased and unprofessional in a play to try and get the High Court to throw it out. They want to get it annulled..."The High Court have already annulled one appeal, why then not a second?". In that event, it gets knocked back down to the second degree court. Of course, they can never win in a fair trial against the evidence, they know that. But "perhaps" THEY CAN RUN THE CLOCK OUT. Bongiorno has already won one trial before because the clock ran out. It's a forlorn hope, but it's actually the only hope they have, so they have to go at it with guns blazing. This is why Edda's also jumping on board this train (her attacking the "prejudice" of Nencini's court), she's been briefed on the strategy and will know, if the clock runs out for Sollecito in the process, so it also does for Amanda as they are both locked into the same process. I anticipate this strategy to continue in ernest and expect a lot of smearing of Nencini and his court in the MSM (as was done to Mignini).


I am sure that would be his first choice, but Raffaele Sollecito has said in an interview with La Stampa that he does not remember. That's a bit too vague for a solid alibi, especially since both have claimed over the years that they have always agreed on one story.

If he was sure during the trial to have spent the night with Knox, he does not seem to be sure now. That hardly benefits them.

He also confirms that Knox's behaviour was "peculiar" and that there was no evidence implicating him and "not very strong evidence" implicating her. That is an odd thing to say when you both stand trial for murder and are joint at the hip.

He could have criticised Nencini without making any references to Knox. What he is doing doesn't make sense to me.


Do you think this was Bongiorno's game play all along this trial (after it was clear that it wasn't going her way?). She wanted to appeal based on the fact that RS was convicted only because of evidence against AK? Maybe RS and AK stopped talking after their reunion in NYC and his fake marriage proposal, maybe it was already in the cards from way back then...Nencini's comment was only a nice little twist! Or even planned. I mean given the political clash between him and Bongiorno and the dirty tricks all lawyers have played - maybe the journalists were put up to asking the question...I am just speculating
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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

OT please help p-))
how do I stop quoting the whole page, sor-) I am so sorry I have been spamming by doing this - I am just totally clueless and every time I try to shorten the quoted passages I mess up the whole thing is) :( :( :(

On a plus side, I have learned to use smilies and fonts and stuff through trial and error.

The other thing; what is a post icon?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Aranavachi wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
He also confirms that Knox's behaviour was "peculiar" and that there was no evidence implicating him and "not very strong evidence" implicating her. That is an odd thing to say when you both stand trial for murder and are joint at the hip.

He could have criticised Nencini without making any references to Knox. What he is doing doesn't make sense to me.


What they want, is the appeal annulled and a new appeal granted, in which the President of the Court will agree to split the trial. The reason they want to split the trial is because there is evidence that is specifically against Knox that is not, or at least not necessarily, against Sollecito. It means there's less evidence they have to fight. If they have to combat less evidence, then they have more chance of winning acquittal for Sollecito based on reasonable doubt. It's still a tall order, even then, but it's "possible". For sure, they know that if they have to tackle ALL the evidence, they don't stand a chance. In addition, as I suggested before, a new appeal may cause an even better result...running the clock out.

They are in a position where their backs are against the wall, as they have few options. This strategy actually gives them a possible path, where there are no other paths, off of the main road that leads only in the direction of the dead end of the High Court approving Nencini's sentence.


Sorry Michael, didn't see this post when I posted pretty much the same thing as you are saying.

What do you mean by the clock running out? Thats the part I do not understand, in the common law legal systems there is no such clock on a charge as serious as murder, rape etc...



Well, Italy isn't a common law legal system. It's a civil law system. And it is a system that is weighted far more to the benefit of the accused then our common law system. A case times out if it goes beyond the statute of limitations. That's how Bongiorno got Andreotti off (her most illustrious client). You can read about some of it here: http://www.mozzarellamamma.com/2013/div ... olitician/

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
...Sollecito is whining to any media outlet that will listen that the appeal was biased against him.


Sollecito will be on Quarto Grado tonight:

Quote:
Finally, a week after the sentence of 25 years in prison for the murder of Meredith Kercher, Raffaele Sollecito speaks in Quarto Grado.


TUTTO TV

I'm surprised that people aren't protesting against inviting a convicted murderer to be guest on the show. I think he'll go down in history as one of the few murderers courted and promoted extensively by the media.

pro-)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Aranavachi wrote:
What do you mean by the clock running out? Thats the part I do not understand, in the common law legal systems there is no such clock on a charge as serious as murder, rape etc...


A case times out if it goes beyond the statute of limitations.


In Italy, there's NO statute of limitations for murder. Popper has confirmed it numerous times on .org.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito: "I have never been heard. The process has always been 'Amanda-centric'. Of me they have never said anything. Except that I was Amanda's boyfriend." Said Raffaele Sollecito commenting on the verdict of the Court of Appeal of Florence for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

"I do not know how much the media side could have affected the judgment, but surely - he added - it had played a major role, the jurors had many questions about what they saw on TV."


ANSA
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Aranavachi wrote:
OT please help p-))
how do I stop quoting the whole page, sor-) I am so sorry I have been spamming by doing this - I am just totally clueless and every time I try to shorten the quoted passages I mess up the whole thing is) :( :( :(

On a plus side, I have learned to use smilies and fonts and stuff through trial and error.

The other thing; what is a post icon?


Okay, easy part first...don't worry about post icons. They don't actually work for individual posts within an existing topic. They only work in the very first post of a new topic.

When you hit the quote button, it will quote everything in the post one is quoting. One way around it, is to quote the whole thing and then manually delete the extra unwanted text. But, that's not elegant.

The best way, requires learning a basic bit of BBCode. Simply do this...highlight the text you wish to quote (left click on it and drag your mouse from the beginning to the end of the desired section of text, right click and select "copy". Now, start your post. Manually type in the following code in the code box below:

Code:
[quote="Name of poster you are quoting"]


So, if you are quoting me, you would type:

Code:
[quote="Michael"]


After that final bracket, right click and select 'paste'. Your copied text then appears. Then, at the end of your quoted text, you type as here in the code box:

Code:
[/quote]


Then hit return a few times so the cursor goes down a few lines and there type your response to the text you are quoting. The code you type at the beginning and end of your quoted text is always the same, it never changes, the only element that changes is the name of the poster you're quoting. So, once you've learned that little bit of code, it becomes second nature. So, let's talk about cows, moons, spoons and nutjobs:

The cow jumped over the moon in the skye, she was trying to race the spoon, but the spoon was a lune, running the wrong way round the moon, and their head on crash, sent them both with a dash, right into poor Mr Moon's eye!

So, I'm going to quote this here text above, as me...left click and highlight the text, right click and select 'copy' and then I type in the BB quote code, and then right click after it and select 'paste', to put in my text, then I type the BB quote code that goes at the end of a quote, like so:


Code:
[quote="Michael"]The cow jumped over the moon in the skye, she was trying to race the spoon, but the spoon was a lune, running the wrong way round the moon, and their head on crash, sent them both with a dash, right into poor Mr Moon's eye![/quote]


And then when clicking on 'post' to post your post, the above will render like so:

Michael wrote:
The cow jumped over the moon in the skye, she was trying to race the spoon, but the spoon was a lune, running the wrong way round the moon, and their head on crash, sent them both with a dash, right into poor Mr Moon's eye!


So, to recap, you do the following as in the code box below:

Code:
[quote="name of poster quoted"]YOUR QUOTED SECTION OF TEXT HERE[/quote]


It's as simple as that and it really is simple after just a little bit of practice. If you are unsure whether you have done it correctly and your post will render as it should, simply 'preview' your post and that will show you how your quotes have rendered. If wrong, edit, preview again (repeat as required), then post when happy. Also, if you wish, feel free to practice in "The Range" subforum.

I hope that's of help :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I thought he was arrested for his shoeprint at the crime scene, which later turned out to be Guede's? Now it's his "small knife." ;) Lots of meaningless yap-yap-yapping on his part.

Meredith case, Sollecito: "I was arrested for a small knife in my pocket"

Bari - "I was arrested for a flick knife that I carried in my pocket as a habit." Said Raffaele Sollecito, reached by telephone at his home in Bisceglie by ANSA (Bari), commenting on the judgment of conviction for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

"They assumed it was the murder weapon - he added - but in fact, both the shape and the fact that I'd have never offended anyone with that tool, they never found anything possibly compatible with any accusation that that knife could have been a murder weapon. "

"Not only our expert witnesses have detected inconsistencies and the carelessness of the scientific investigations of the police, but - he ends - even the experts of the Court of Appeal have given full right to my defense."


IL SECOLO XIX

Barletta , February 7 - ( Adnkronos ) -''The very fact that the President considered important my statement makes me see, at a logical level , that he had actually no factual evidence against me .'' Said to Adnkronos Raffaele Sollecito , an engineer from Bisceglie , in the province of Barletta -Andria -Trani , about an interview of the President of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence Alessandro Nencini, after the conciction of the young man from Puglia to 25 years imprisonment at the end of the trial for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher that occurred in Perugia in 2007.


ADNKRONOS
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Michael wrote:
Aranavachi wrote:
What do you mean by the clock running out? Thats the part I do not understand, in the common law legal systems there is no such clock on a charge as serious as murder, rape etc...


A case times out if it goes beyond the statute of limitations.


In Italy, there's NO statute of limitations for murder. Popper has confirmed it numerous times on .org.


Indeed, but Sollecito's team want to split the trial (the new appeal, with the Nencini appeal annulled) and in that event, Sollecito could play for lesser charges, by weaving a new narrative of his role out of the smaller, and so more maleable, evidence pot against him. If the charges change, so does the game and rules such as the statute of limitations might come into play on those charges. To stand any chance of success for Sollecito, it requires the defence to perform some major "engineering" to the whole structure of their defence.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Guermantes wrote:
I thought he was arrested for his shoeprint at the crime scene, which later turned out to be Guede's? Now it's his "small knife." ;) Lots of meaningless yap-yap-yapping on his part.


No Raffaele, you were arrested because you admitted to police that you'd told them a load of bullshit and that Amanda went out. Not only had you lied to police in a murder enquiry, having stripped Amanda of her alibi (which as a result, she a short time later admitted to being present at the cottage during the murder and bringing the "murderer" there, and saying nothing of this after the event), you yourself no longer had an alibi. This alone, was enough for Prosecutor Mignini to order your arrest when he arrived on the scene circa 3:30 am. The knife and shoeprint served only to contribute to the fact of your arrest being formally confirmed by Judge Matteini a couple of days later.

ETA: In the context of the time and the Knowledge available to police "then": Lying to police anywhere in the context of a serious criminal investigation is serious enough. In Italy, it's even more serious as while formal suspects have the right to lie to police, witnesses do not, it in itself is a criminal offence. It's all the more serious an offence when it's a murder enquiry and your lie effectively derailed the investigation for several days. Had you told the truth immediately, Amanda's presence at the cottage would have been known of days before and would have also led to the arrest of Patrick Lumumba days ago. Directly because of your lie, the murderer has been free for days and may have murdered again.*

*Of course, Patrick had nothing whatsoever to do with the murder, was never at the cottage and Amanda's "confession" was instead a false accusation. But, at the time, the police didn't know that. The fact was, this was more then enough for them to arrest you.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Sollecito: "I have never been heard. The process has always been 'Amanda-centric'. Of me they have never said anything. Except that I was Amanda's boyfriend." Said Raffaele Sollecito commenting on the verdict of the Court of Appeal of Florence for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

"I do not know how much the media side could have affected the judgment, but surely - he added - it had played a major role, the jurors had many questions about what they saw on TV."


ANSA



What, exactly, is the source of this claim by Sollecito that the lay judges complained that they were confused by things they'd seen on the television?

I am wondering. Those journalists that Nencini bumped into in the corridor and exchanged words with...was one of them Spezi??? FFS!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
What, exactly, is the source of this claim by Sollecito that the lay judges complained that they were confused by things they'd seen on the television?


Hi Michael,

there are two versions of the Nencini interview: one was published by Corriere della Sera, another by Il Messagero. References to the media influence are in the Il Messaggero interview. I'm posting a raw Google translation below:

Meredith's murder , the judge says: " Amanda and Raffaele had killed that night because
they had nothing to do"


from our correspondent Cristiana Mangani

FLORENCE - In this trial, remember the tension of Raffaele Sollecito , written statements by e-mail by Amanda Knox, the constant questions of jurors , the 12 hours of closed session .

President Nencini, it's over.
"It was tiring, but the next day you feel liberated. They are dramatic events that have disrupted lives. I also have children and a family. Getting to a decision has been hard, but once the verdict has been issued you feel relieved . "

It is the morning after the new sentence for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito , the President of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence, Alessandro Nencini, is already in his office. In the room on the ninth floor of the hyper-modern courthouse , with large windows overlooking the city.

Twelve hours of closed session , why so long?
"This time was necessary , there was the need for the jurors to take cognizance of the acts . The documents in this process occupy half the room. We felt two things: the severity of the situation. And then , I must be honest, the media overexposure of this case, that did not help . Jurors returned home and were bombarded by information. And when we saw each other , they wanted to know: " President , but on TV they said it in another way. How did it happen really ? " So my logic was : let's take the time you need , we have to come out with a clear conscience. So it was . "

The reasons of the Supreme Court seem to have shown a path on which to proceed . Do not have entered a bit too much about ?
"They just explained that , on several occasions , the acquittal lacked arguments and showed defects in logic. You could not pretend not to see them. It can be assumed that they are shared or not , but you must also explain why. "

Sollecito 's defense had suggested the possibility that the roles and responsibilities of the two young people should be clearly identified and distinguished. Have you considered this possibility ?
"The defenses of Knox and Sollecito were at the highest level , have made strategic decisions , but the process should be done with the rules. The two parts are actually different from the procedural point of view , because Raffaele has never been questioned . There is only the interrogation before the investigating judge , made ​​after his arrest, but is not usable. The examination of the accused in these years, has never been asked (done) . "

Do you think that would have changed anything?
"The right not to be heard in the process is a right, but deprives the subject of a voice. Knox spoke in various ways, provided different versions , wrote memoirs. For Sollecito, it was decided not to make him talk . We do not have his case heard . How this has affected the decision of the Court you will read in the grounds (motivations). "

Then there is the motive of the crime: sexual or questions related to the cleaning of the house and an argument between Mez and Amanda ?
"The motive is a problem that we will explain in the judgment . In general, when an act of violence is born within a criminal organization , it's easy . Here was born and matured on a night out among the young people. There is a prevailing motive that might be inferred from the context . Up to 8 and a quarter of the evening of November 1 , Amanda had to go to work at the pub of Lumumba , Raffaele had to go to the station to pick up a suitcase for a friend . Then the situation changed . The episode was born on a night when no one had anything to do. "

A twist of fate, as in the movie Sliding Doors ? A coincidence? An impulse ?
" I do not want to trivialize it with the idea of ​​randomness , but if Amanda had gone to work, probably the murder would never have happened . It would not have created this occasion, and we would not be here to discuss it. Speculations on motives can be interesting, and in the Motivations will provide several directions . I am aware that it will be the most controversial part of the reasons . "

Do you think that the attorney general will ask you to arrest Sollecito ?
"The Ordinance of the travel ban has been performed. He is in Italy , the matter is closed , there is no reason to imagine anything else. "


IL MESSAGGERO
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So they took their time deciding after a review of all the questions/evidence/media/etc... also known as everything.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The problem is that Il Messagero columnist Cristiana Mangani conflates her interview with Judge Nencini "in his office" with where he spoke to her in the press scrum outside, earlier. Which he says has been misquoted.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

G wrote:
Hi Michael,

there are two versions of the Nencini interview: one was published by Corriere della Sera, another by Il Messagero. References to the media influence are in the Il Messaggero interview. I'm posting a raw Google translation below:

Meredith's murder , the judge says: " Amanda and Raffaele had killed that night because
they had nothing to do"

from our correspondent Cristiana Mangani



Thanks G,

Okay, so we have a whole dialogue in one papers reporting of the interview, and it's totally missing in the others. So, let us say the dialogue, as reported here occurred, are we then to accept that the other paper on receipt of a dialogue such as that, simply didn't bother report it? Or, is it more likely that that dialogue didn't occur, didn't occur as reported, or the reporter missed that part of the interview and got it from some third party? The problem I have with it, is that we other versions are very general in regard to the information Nencini gave and certainly, he didn't go into detail about specific elements that were discussed in close session or specific problems lay judges may have been having. As one would expect of a judge of his experience and rank. Yet, in this version, he is very specific about issues lay judges were having...speaking about their being confused by what they'd seen on TV is very specific. We are supposed to accept that Nencini would just blurt that out to reporters he bumped into in the corridor right after issuing a sentence? For me, that doesn't compute. One thing is certain...we need corroboration for this section of dialogue, and clarification. As always, this case just refuses to ever be simple.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
The problem is that Il Messagero columnist Cristiana Mangani conflates her interview with Judge Nencini "in his office" with where he spoke to her in the press scrum outside, earlier. Which he says has been misquoted.



I'd say!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
So they took their time deciding after a review of all the questions/evidence/media/etc... also known as everything.


One should know by now that anything and everything in this case, even the most simple things, can be twisted until they're FUBAR.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Haloscan:

http://web.archive.org/web/200809251123 ... 507317890/


Although, as I recall, the background colour was never white, it was a pale blue. Still, the Wayback Machine seems to have preserved rather a lot quite well. Better then rtf's :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Actually, I'm just going to copy over one of Skep's first posts on Haloscan, Jan 16, 2008. It provides some very keen insights into the Seattleite psyche, as well as offers an intuitive opinion on the driver for Knox's resentment of Meredith that I think holds up to be pretty spot on today, IMHO:


Skeptical Bystander wrote:
Re xin's observation/response to sparrow's comment about odd defensiveness coming out of seattle (xin wrote "and sparrow, seattle is different that way, insular, kind of xenophobic. i've checked it out with friends up there--very provincial plus widely known as having a TERRIBLE newspaper.").
As a native Seattleite who had the good fortune to escape and live abroad for a really long time, more than two decades (and who has since returned to the Emerald City), I concur wholeheartedly with both posts. And yes, the newspaper is terrible. Seattleites are oddly defensive, a mindset that they cover up with a thin veneer of political correctness and false-fairmindedness. This mindset and its veil are exemplified in the PI blog on the subject of the murder. What is striking about that blog, aside from its pro-AK stance that denies being one, is the fact that it is really "all about AK," which I am tempted to say is exactly how she would want it. AK craves the spotlight.
I think the provincial nature of Seattle may in fact be one of the clues to the motive for this crime. Seattle natives grow up with a smug sense that they are "special" because Seattle is somehow special. In fact, Seattle is a lovely city with too much rain, and suffers from its status as a second tier city, even though it pretends not to, and pretends to be superior to its bigger and more glamorous sisters because of its surrounding natural beauty and rugged lifestyle. People don't seem to realize that the world is full of cities that offer this same combination of urban landscape and natural backdrop, and that some places even do it better. Add to this smug sense of superiority (which masks an underlying but never openly acknowledged inferiority complex) two additional factors that apply to AK --being from the south end of Seattle (which is looked down upon by people from other parts of the city; I know this because I too am from there),and being a graduate of what is regarded as the second-best private school--and you have someone who, when they venture out into the larger world will probably have a strong sense of entitlement, and a firm conviction that they are indeed special except for that stupid, but well hidden, chip on the shoulder that comes from being from the south end of Seattle. The larger world comes as a shock. It is indifferent to Seattle at best. It knows about Kurt Cobain and maybe the WTO meeting, but it is filled with people who are more worldly, more exotic and more accomplished. This can be especially hard to take if you are used to being not only special because of the Seattle aura you have worn since birth, but also special because you are a very good student from a very good high school, and you are just used to being regarded as special. Imagine finding yourself faced with the reality of your ordinariness. In some people, this might produce a sense of humility, and perhaps a desire to take in what the world has to offer and lose the sense of entitlement. In others, it might produce less honorable feelings: anger, rage, jealousy and hate. Sometimes these feelings find their target in a specific person. Meredith Kercher would have inspired jealousy in some. She was a pretty, smiling girl who, because of her mixed ethnic background, looked a little Italian. She also spoke better Italian and was part of the pretigious ERASMUS program. She was going to the regular university (RS's university), not the less prestigious university for foreigners. Being English, she probably had a little more reserve than your average American (who by this time is feeling very average and not so special any more) and maybe did not seek to be your best friend from day one. She certainly already had her own group of friends. She probably was more self-assured than her new roommate. Suddenly, Seattle seemed kind of second-rate and inadequate as preparation for this world. Nobody was saying, you're from Seattle--WOW!
Personally, and I am no psychologist by any means, I think in her heart of hearts AK "wanted" to kill MK. I doubt this was her stated motive though, and she was probably deluding herself rather than acknowledging the jealousy and rage. She probably thought it would be fun to scare MK a little bit, for disapproving of her, for not wanting to be her best friend and, most of all, for being a more special person. I guess she got one or both of the others on board for this little game. But it got out of hand and something really bad happened. Thank God for the Catholic background, since it allows AK to convince herself that, since her intention was not to kill or otherwise cause or allow MK to die, she is innocent.
I am sure that my comments about Seattle will inspire lots of hate, but I believe they are true. I love Seattle, don't get me wrong, but this is the vibe as I feel it.
And obviously, this motive can never be proven and will never be acknowledged. It may not be right. But it has been suggesting itself to me from the very beginning of this story. I wanted to get it out there and I'd love to know what people without a vested geographic or emotional interest think.
Skeptical Bystander | 01.16.08 - 1:34 pm | #



http://web.archive.org/web/200809251123 ... 890/#72749

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito calls murder trial 'Amanda-centric'

Bari, February 7 - Raffaele Sollecito, who last week received a 25-year-sentence in a Florence appeals court for the 2007 murder of British student Meredith Kercher, told ANSA Friday he had been sidelined in the case as the ex-boyfriend of co-defendant Amanda Knox.
"I have never been heard. It has always been an Amanda-centric trial. No one has ever said anything about me. Only that I was Amanda's boyfriend," Sollecito told ANSA by telephone from his home in Bisceglie, on the southern Adriatic coast of Italy. "I have never been heard with a lawyer. In police headquarters (in November 2007) I was without a lawyer. I was alone in front of I don't know how many police officers. It seems to me that more than 20 put down their signatures. They became very crude, and they put me in a particularly stressful situation."

"I was arrested for having a small utility knife in my pocket, which I carried around out of habit. They hypothesized that it was the crime weapon, but in fact, both for the form and for the fact that I never thought of offending anybody with that tool, they have never found anything that is possibly compatible with the accusatory hypothesis (regarding) that knife".

"Not only (did my own) expert witness detect inconsistencies and carelessness in the forensic investigations of police, but also the Appeals Court expert witness said my defence was completely in the right," Sollecito said, adding that he was now talking as much as possible to the press to address the "injustice done" to him.

"I have no life plans. Right now I live day to day. I decide each day what there is to do. I am about to get a specialized university degree, but I will decide what to do one step at a time".


GAZZETTA DEL SUD

So Sollecito admits he is now talking as much as possible to the media, because he realizes that it has affected juror's perceptions of this murder case? I'm sorry, Raffa, but even that much would be too little, too late to save the situation.

Everyone, prepare yourself for something dreadful: to see RS's face pop up on TV every other day and hear his name in the news all the time.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jackie...when I tried to see your video..it came up error has occurred. It said try again later..so I will.

Fantastic posts. I keep on learning. And, thankfully, one doesn't have to be a Rocket Scientist to grasp the meanings.
I also think you would have made a great Lawyer, Michael. But..you do have to have that mechanism that allows you to shut off from the emotional. In as much as it's about fact, evidence etc. That doesn't mean Lawyers don't get emotional. Let's see.It COULD be that in certain instances..the Lawyer truly believes his/her client is innocent.
Or..the fees they're getting could bring them near to tears with Joy.
Or..they've taken the case pro Bono..especially a Huge News one. Then the publicity could bring mucho bucks. But..if they lose...then emotions could seriously come into play:)
In the end...Lawyers want to win. It's ego..it's validation that they're smart..and in most cases..beat the odds. Lawyers are always nervous when waiting for a verdict. Because, in the end..even if they have a * slam Dunk * case..there's those * JURORS*. Think Casey Anthony..George Zimmerman..etc.

I'd like to think I'd have been a good Lawyer. But as a Prosecutor.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

More Haloscans and Disqus:


http://web.archive.org/web/200809251123 ... 274193971/


http://web.archive.org/web/200809251123 ... 668042897/

http://web.archive.org/web/200809251123 ... h_kercher/

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I don't think Raff would be getting so many invites..if it hadn't been for his quick * Tour* of Austria :)

There's something about fleeing. Who could forget O.J. running stop lights in his white Bronco? Oh, yes..that's right.Those Jurors come into play again.

Nevertheless....it shows Raff's mind set. People put 2 and 2 together. He ONLY returned when he found out he wasn't going to Prison immediately. His feeble excuses..and changing stories..about it..cha.

And..to me...they're so Boring.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
Jackie...when I tried to see your video..it came up error has occurred. It said try again later..so I will.

Fantastic posts. I keep on learning. And, thankfully, one doesn't have to be a Rocket Scientist to grasp the meanings.
I also think you would have made a great Lawyer, Michael. But..you do have to have that mechanism that allows you to shut off from the emotional. In as much as it's about fact, evidence etc. That doesn't mean Lawyers don't get emotional. Let's see.It COULD be that in certain instances..the Lawyer truly believes his/her client is innocent.
Or..the fees they're getting could bring them near to tears with Joy.
Or..they've taken the case pro Bono..especially a Huge News one. Then the publicity could bring mucho bucks. But..if they lose...then emotions could seriously come into play:)
In the end...Lawyers want to win. It's ego..it's validation that they're smart..and in most cases..beat the odds. Lawyers are always nervous when waiting for a verdict. Because, in the end..even if they have a * slam Dunk * case..there's those * JURORS*. Think Casey Anthony..George Zimmerman..etc.

I'd like to think I'd have been a good Lawyer. But as a Prosecutor.



Yes. With me, in respect to a path, I have to feel that I'm changing the World or I rapidly lose motivation. My perfect idea of Hell, is to be trapped working a 9 - 5 in an office block administrating insurance policies, or marketing coffee pots, or some similar soul sucking purgatory.

As for being smart and winning, that's meaningless for me if the cause has little value to humanity and right. Pride is of service to nobody and is very bad for the soul.

I think you'd have made a good prosecutor, too :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Skep did seem to be spot on. The txt from Patrick might have been the final straw in her mind.

Either that or they were planning that late morning already and were seeing what Meredith's plans for the night were. She might have not been planning to go to work anyway... but everything suggest she was.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Sollecito calls murder trial 'Amanda-centric'

Bari, February 7 - Raffaele Sollecito, who last week received a 25-year-sentence in a Florence appeals court for the 2007 murder of British student Meredith Kercher, told ANSA Friday he had been sidelined in the case as the ex-boyfriend of co-defendant Amanda Knox.
"I have never been heard. It has always been an Amanda-centric trial. No one has ever said anything about me. Only that I was Amanda's boyfriend," Sollecito told ANSA by telephone from his home in Bisceglie, on the southern Adriatic coast of Italy. "I have never been heard with a lawyer. In police headquarters (in November 2007) I was without a lawyer. I was alone in front of I don't know how many police officers. It seems to me that more than 20 put down their signatures. They became very crude, and they put me in a particularly stressful situation."

"I was arrested for having a small utility knife in my pocket, which I carried around out of habit. They hypothesized that it was the crime weapon, but in fact, both for the form and for the fact that I never thought of offending anybody with that tool, they have never found anything that is possibly compatible with the accusatory hypothesis (regarding) that knife".

"Not only (did my own) expert witness detect inconsistencies and carelessness in the forensic investigations of police, but also the Appeals Court expert witness said my defence was completely in the right," Sollecito said, adding that he was now talking as much as possible to the press to address the "injustice done" to him.

"I have no life plans. Right now I live day to day. I decide each day what there is to do. I am about to get a specialized university degree, but I will decide what to do one step at a time".


GAZZETTA DEL SUD

So Sollecito admits he is now talking as much as possible to the media, because he realizes that it has affected juror's perceptions of this murder case? I'm sorry, Raffa, but even that much would be too little, too late to save the situation.

Everyone, prepare yourself for something dreadful: to see RS's face pop up on TV every other day and hear his name in the news all the time.



Geez, it was his own bloody lawyers that kept going on about Amanda, Amanda, Amanda. To the point, one would have thought Bongiorno was Amanda's lawyer instead of Sollecito's. And who's fault is that, they're HIS lawyers?! He's their boss and at any time he could of instructed them, hey, let's make this about me please, not Amanda. He didn't, as it was the plan and he was fully on board with it. The plan didn't work and so now he's down on it and it's all everyone elses fault. Damn, he can whine!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
Skep did seem to be spot on. The txt from Patrick might have been the final straw in her mind.

Either that or they were planning that late morning already and were seeing what Meredith's plans for the night were. She might have not been planning to go to work anyway... but everything suggest she was.


In addition to the text Amanda sent Meredith earlier that day (day of the murder) asking if Meredith wanted to do something with her that evening, to which Meredith replied thanks but no thanks, I've got stuff on tonight. That was two days in a row Amanda had solicited Meredith to hang out with her and got the push-off (albeit politely and kindly).

ETA: And no, Knox certainly wasn't planning on going into work if she was asking Meredith to go out with her that night. The "work alibi" which never was an alibi at all.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Is Frederick Forsyth losing his marbles?

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/column ... e#comments


No, he's a novelist. Funny how the likes of Patricia Cornwell, Douglas Preston, and Frederick Forsyth become such experts in the case, supported not by actual research but ready to hand confirmation of prior prejudices. This sort of writing suggests how writers become hacks, they lose the ability for original writing and write, just to keep themselves in the public eye. Sorry, but I have no desire to read any of Mr. Forsyth's books; his best, Day Of The Jackal, was written 33 yrs. ago :)


Day of the Jackal was published 43 years ago however it is at least 33 years since Fredrick Forsyth had anything coherent to say, I suspect that apart from the Express everyone assumes he's dead.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Undead, maybe.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A new article from Doug Longhini, long-time supporter of Knox.

A short summary: This is a political conspiracy. Italians want her behind bars because she is American. Hellman knew all along that his ruling would be annulled and explains the conspiracy behind the latest guilty verdict.

Quote:
Following the verdict, judge Hellmann didn’t pull punches. He declared: “the evidence was nonsense.” Suddenly, several prosecutors and judges became the targets of criticism claiming they had mishandled the case from the beginning.
The vice-president of Italy’s judicial oversight committee, Michele Vietti, immediately warned against politicizing the case. Many paid heed. However, Rocco Girlanda did not.

[...]

In April 2013, the Italian Supreme Court threw out judge Claudio Hellmann’s 2011 acquittal of Knox and Sollecito. Now retired, Hellmann told La Stampa newspaper that he “foresaw” the reversal. Hellman said “the party of the prosecutor is very strong in the judiciary” and that political party had “influenced” the Italian Supreme Court, according to La Stampa.

[...]

This wasn’t the first time Claudio Hellmann raised the possibility that political considerations were helping drive the pursuit of Knox and Sollecito. In October 2011, he told La Nazione newspaper that there was “a political background” to the case. It was directed squarely at Amanda Knox. Hellmann said, “Many wanted Amanda in prison because she was an American.”


Doug Longhini has found another reason why Knox's extradition should be denied: Knox is being persecuted because she is American, so in his opinion this could be covered by article 5 of the extradition treaty: Punishment for political offence, for being American.

Quote:
Fair enough. But missing is a reading of the bilateral extradition treaty between the United States and Italy. Specifically, Article 5 of the treaty, which reads:

“Extradition shall not be granted when the offense for which extradition is requested is a political offense/or if the person whose surrender is sought proves that the request for surrender has been made in order to try or punish him or her for a political offense.”

Was Amanda Knox’s “political offense” the fact she was an American? And was her second “political offense” the possibility she became a pawn that two battling Italian political parties used to further their own agendas?


Was Amanda Knox a political pawn in Italian politics by Doug Longhini, February 7, 2014
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Sollecito is also intensely jealous of Rudy, looking at the possibility of his gaining work release this year and beginning parole hearings. Raffaele feels very hard done by :)


That is my impression too. There is some bitterness that Rudy Guede, without a star team of lawyers, his own DNA experts and no PR firm to influence public opinion, has served his time before they start serving theirs.

I cannot say I am happy about this, because in my opinion Rudy Guede should serve his full sentence, but that does not mean I don't see the irony.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Jackie...when I tried to see your video..it came up error has occurred. It said try again later..so I will.

Fantastic posts. I keep on learning. And, thankfully, one doesn't have to be a Rocket Scientist to grasp the meanings.
I also think you would have made a great Lawyer, Michael. But..you do have to have that mechanism that allows you to shut off from the emotional. In as much as it's about fact, evidence etc. That doesn't mean Lawyers don't get emotional. Let's see.It COULD be that in certain instances..the Lawyer truly believes his/her client is innocent.
Or..the fees they're getting could bring them near to tears with Joy.
Or..they've taken the case pro Bono..especially a Huge News one. Then the publicity could bring mucho bucks. But..if they lose...then emotions could seriously come into play:)
In the end...Lawyers want to win. It's ego..it's validation that they're smart..and in most cases..beat the odds. Lawyers are always nervous when waiting for a verdict. Because, in the end..even if they have a * slam Dunk * case..there's those * JURORS*. Think Casey Anthony..George Zimmerman..etc.

I'd like to think I'd have been a good Lawyer. But as a Prosecutor.



Yes. With me, in respect to a path, I have to feel that I'm changing the World or I rapidly lose motivation. My perfect idea of Hell, is to be trapped working a 9 - 5 in an office block administrating insurance policies, or marketing coffee pots, or some similar soul sucking purgatory.

As for being smart and winning, that's meaningless for me if the cause has little value to humanity and right. Pride is of service to nobody and is very bad for the soul.

I think you'd have made a good prosecutor, too :)


Hahahaha.Marketing coffee pots? LOL. No...I totally get what you're saying,Michael. And thank Heavens..there are people like you in the World. I mean that sincerely.

To be honest..I would have been a good Prosecutor..but barred in a nana second.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Brogan wrote:
Ergon wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Is Frederick Forsyth losing his marbles?

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/column ... e#comments


No, he's a novelist. Funny how the likes of Patricia Cornwell, Douglas Preston, and Frederick Forsyth become such experts in the case, supported not by actual research but ready to hand confirmation of prior prejudices. This sort of writing suggests how writers become hacks, they lose the ability for original writing and write, just to keep themselves in the public eye. Sorry, but I have no desire to read any of Mr. Forsyth's books; his best, Day Of The Jackal, was written 33 yrs. ago :)


Day of the Jackal was published 43 years ago however it is at least 33 years since Fredrick Forsyth had anything coherent to say, I suspect that apart from the Express everyone assumes he's dead.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Aranavachi wrote:
Do you think this was Bongiorno's game play all along this trial (after it was clear that it wasn't going her way?). She wanted to appeal based on the fact that RS was convicted only because of evidence against AK? Maybe RS and AK stopped talking after their reunion in NYC and his fake marriage proposal, maybe it was already in the cards from way back then...Nencini's comment was only a nice little twist! Or even planned. I mean given the political clash between him and Bongiorno and the dirty tricks all lawyers have played - maybe the journalists were put up to asking the question...I am just speculating


I agree with Michael, the strategy has changed. The defences are now separated by Sollecito's defence team and Raffaele himself, pointing their fingers at Knox.

The change of mind came during the last appeal, but it was too late to point that out to the judges during the closing arguments.

In my opinion Ergon is right: Too little, too late. We will have to wait for the sentencing report to gain a better understanding, but right now I assume the Supreme Court will approve of the latest verdict.

Hopefully that will put an end to the media circus so that the Kerchers will be able to grieve and remember Meredith in peace without having to deal with Knox's and Sollecito's interviews regarding the latest developments. I think they deserve some peace after everything they've been through.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
Skep did seem to be spot on. The txt from Patrick might have been the final straw in her mind.

Either that or they were planning that late morning already and were seeing what Meredith's plans for the night were. She might have not been planning to go to work anyway... but everything suggest she was.


I always wondered about the text message from Patrick Lumumba to Amanda Knox, asking myself if this might have been the last straw. Or maybe it was because she was now free for the night?

I believe it must be part of the motive for the attack, especially since Knox later dragged Lumumba into this by giving a detailed account of how he raped and killed Meredith.

I just cannot believe this is only a coincidence. It is too convenient.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I also think, Sollecito is genuinely sore at Nencini's hint that his failure to take the stand had a negative impact on his sentence. And I think he has some reason to be annoyed. This is a speculation, but one based on logic. I don't think it was just him and his own legal team that were reluctant for him to take the stand. I think Knox's handlers also didn't want him to testify, the danger of his doing so is absolutely clear. Should he at any time of taken the stand and under cross totally contradicted Knox's defence and testimony, as he undoubtedly would have (to this day they can't get their alibis to match) it would have been seriously damaging to Knox. I think there was a general understanding by all parties that if the accused were to ever take the stand, only ONE of them should do so, so that the testimony of both under cross could not be compared for damaging contradictions. I think the Knox camp's stance to Sollecito was along the lines of, look, in the hearings, all you have to do is keep your mouth shut tight. I think, that not only did Sollecito "choose" not to testify, he was also pressured not to. If I am correct, then right now he will be in hindsight, very bitter about that pressure as Nencini has indicated that this contributed to his reasoning in his refusal to split the trial, per the Sollecito defence request. Of course, I don't think for a single moment that had Sollecito testified it would have saved his neck, but that won't stop Sollecito thinking that maybe, just maybe, if he had it just may have. So, just one more thing on top of the others that he may have to feel resentful towards Knox about. And if you add to that, Knox leaving him to face the music in the appeal alone. Although of course, currently, he's taking that resentment out on Nencini (mostly).

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
A new article from Doug Longhini, long-time supporter of Knox.

A short summary: This is a political conspiracy. Italians want her behind bars because she is American. Hellman knew all along that his ruling would be annulled and explains the conspiracy behind the latest guilty verdict.

Quote:
Following the verdict, judge Hellmann didn’t pull punches. He declared: “the evidence was nonsense.” Suddenly, several prosecutors and judges became the targets of criticism claiming they had mishandled the case from the beginning.
The vice-president of Italy’s judicial oversight committee, Michele Vietti, immediately warned against politicizing the case. Many paid heed. However, Rocco Girlanda did not.

[...]

In April 2013, the Italian Supreme Court threw out judge Claudio Hellmann’s 2011 acquittal of Knox and Sollecito. Now retired, Hellmann told La Stampa newspaper that he “foresaw” the reversal. Hellman said “the party of the prosecutor is very strong in the judiciary” and that political party had “influenced” the Italian Supreme Court, according to La Stampa.

[...]

This wasn’t the first time Claudio Hellmann raised the possibility that political considerations were helping drive the pursuit of Knox and Sollecito. In October 2011, he told La Nazione newspaper that there was “a political background” to the case. It was directed squarely at Amanda Knox. Hellmann said, “Many wanted Amanda in prison because she was an American.”


Doug Longhini has found another reason why Knox's extradition should be denied: Knox is being persecuted because she is American, so in his opinion this could be covered by article 5 of the extradition treaty: Punishment for political offence, for being American.

Quote:
Fair enough. But missing is a reading of the bilateral extradition treaty between the United States and Italy. Specifically, Article 5 of the treaty, which reads:

“Extradition shall not be granted when the offense for which extradition is requested is a political offense/or if the person whose surrender is sought proves that the request for surrender has been made in order to try or punish him or her for a political offense.”

Was Amanda Knox’s “political offense” the fact she was an American? And was her second “political offense” the possibility she became a pawn that two battling Italian political parties used to further their own agendas?


Was Amanda Knox a political pawn in Italian politics by Doug Longhini, February 7, 2014


The embarrassingly inept Mr. Longhini is saying that Amanda Knox killed Amanda Knox as a political act? Or that murder is a political offense? Or, just being American? Oh lawd, if this becomes the standard of reporting in the media over the extradition proceedings, I'll rather watch Real Housewives of Beverly Hills or something.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I also think, Sollecito is genuinely sore at Nencini's hint that his failure to take the stand had a negative impact on his sentence. And I think he has some reason to be annoyed. This is a speculation, but one based on logic. I don't think it was just him and his own legal team that were reluctant for him to take the stand. I think Knox's handlers also didn't want him to testify, the danger of his doing so is absolutely clear. Should he at any time of taken the stand and under cross totally contradicted Knox's defence and testimony, as he undoubtedly would have (to this day they can't get their alibis to match) it would have been seriously damaging to Knox. I think there was a general understanding by all parties that if the accused were to ever take the stand, only ONE of them should do so, so that the testimony of both under cross could not be compared for damaging contradictions. I think the Knox camp's stance to Sollecito was along the lines of, look, in the hearings, all you have to do is keep your mouth shut tight. I think, that not only did Sollecito "choose" not to testify, he was also pressured not to. If I am correct, then right now he will be in hindsight, very bitter about that pressure as Nencini has indicated that this contributed to his reasoning in his refusal to split the trial, per the Sollecito defence request. Of course, I don't think for a single moment that had Sollecito testified it would have saved his neck, but that won't stop Sollecito thinking that maybe, just maybe, if he had it just may have. So, just one more thing on top of the others that he may have to feel resentful towards Knox about. And if you add to that, Knox leaving him to face the music in the appeal alone. Although of course, currently, he's taking that resentment out on Nencini (mostly).


Some where within this is the Green Card scam, Michael. There were so many suggestions made to him via Facebook and even on his GoFundMe page to get married to someone, the better to stay away from Italy. I believe Kelsey Kaye when she says he proposed marriage to Amanda Knox, and that he is annoyed with her for turning him down. Knox's photo shoots with him in Manhattan and their walkabouts (with Edda as duenna two steps behind) can be seen in a different light now.
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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
The best way, requires learning a basic bit of BBCode. Simply do this...highlight the text you wish to quote (left click on it and drag your mouse from the beginning to the end of the desired section of text, right click and select "copy". Now, start your post. Manually type in the following code in the code box


Thank you so much Michael for the perfect instructions! th-)

I am so so grateful that I can do this now - I felt really bad dumping huge amounts of text on the board each time Yay-)
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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
In addition to the text Amanda sent Meredith earlier that day (day of the murder) asking if Meredith wanted to do something with her that evening, to which Meredith replied thanks but no thanks, I've got stuff on tonight. That was two days in a row Amanda had solicited Meredith to hang out with her and got the push-off (albeit politely and kindly).

ETA: And no, Knox certainly wasn't planning on going into work if she was asking Meredith to go out with her that night. The "work alibi" which never was an alibi at all.


What time was this text sent? I was under the impression that there was no contact between Amanda and Meredith after Meredith left the house in the afternoon...
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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I was wondering if AK and RS headed to the flat to get some of that weed Meredith was looking after for Giacomo? They saw RG on the way and they all headed that way together. Meredith would likely have denied such a request and maybe they became aggressive - one thing led to the next...

Is it true that the keys to Giacomo's flat were found in AK's room?

Although this does not account for carrying the knife over to the cottage...the only explanation for this is premeditation or at the very least a prank (which is AK's MO)
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Jackie wrote:
Seems your English sensibilities are showing:

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
1994 c. 33
Part III
Inferences from accused’s silence
Section 35 (2)

"...the court shall, at the conclusion of the evidence for the prosecution, satisfy itself (...in the presence of the jury) that the accused is aware that the stage has been reached at which evidence can be given for the defence and that he can, if he wishes, give evidence and that, if he chooses not to give evidence, ..., it will be permissible for the court or jury to draw such inferences as appear proper from his failure to give evidence ..."



Hi Jackie. Well, what I said just seemed like common sense and logic to me, I've had no formal training or study in the law (other then what I've learned in following this case). I'm therefore, much gratified that my reasoning is in accord with an actual statute :)...


Hi Michael,

I hate to be a pain, and I'm sorry for any confusion, but, for complicated reasons, I just want to remind everyone that I'm not holding myself out as a lawyer offering professional opinions. I'm only here to share the benefits of my (expensive) legal education, replete with any brilliant insights from my learned law professors that might apply, in the hope that it will help people, on both sides of the debate, to better understand the twists and turns of this case and its backdrop. If anyone needs legal advice on the matters discussed on this board, they should consult a professional in their jurisdiction.

Now that that's out of the way, I have absolutely no doubt that you would have been an excellent lawyer, Michael. Come to think of it, I've had this thought about quite a number of PMFrs - I hesitate to name anyone in particular for fear that someone will feel left out, but you, Skep, Stilicho, Fiona & Hugo come to mind immediately.

As far as temperament goes, I think people tend to fall into 3 general categories: prosecutors at heart, defense lawyers at heart and judges at heart.

Your passion (for Justice and victims' rights) and your uncompromising morality make you a natural-born prosecutor. I think Cape and I are cut from this cloth, too. Ditto for Stilicho - Big Time.

Dispassionate, panoptic analysis and an unwavering commitment to logic, reason and principle are the hallmarks of a good judge and I think Fiona is a good fit. Ditto for Thoughtful. I think Skep and Hugo are the sort that would start out as outraged prosecutors but which could wind up being pretty decent on the bench - as tough judges.

Then there are the defense lawyers, which I think can be further divided into 3 categories: soft touches & true believers (think Bardo), rational/ unemotional analysts short on - or pretending to be short on - E.Q. points (every engineer I know LOL), & assorted scoundrels/ wannbe scoundrels (many an FOA soul would, were it not for the lack of a brain, fall into this category).

High verbal intelligence is the key to studying and understanding the law - this is why I think so many PMF members would make fine legal scholars (and why I'd be hard-pressed to say the same for more than just 4 or 5 of the Groupies).


Last edited by Jackie on Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito on tonight's Quarto Grado:

Meredith Kercher, Raffaele Sollecito interview

Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox killed Meredith Kercher out of boredom, as a result of an erotic game gone wrong, or improper use of the bathroom?

Attachment:
RS on Quarto Grado 7 Feb 2014.jpg


Raffaele Sollecito: This is not a fair justice. I immediately saw that there was too much hurry and I thought they wanted to acquit. With Amanda I exchanged emails. We do not write much but I'm minding my own business (right now). I ask the family of Meredith ... you want an approximate truth because you are in love with this thesis (crime theory)? I was expecting a happy ending. I did not think of something bad. I wanted to celebrate away from this chaos. We went to see the places (in Austria). As soon as I received the dramatic news, I came back. We were talking with friends and family to give up, quit [perdere] this system with many flaws but I knew this was not right. I've tackled this situation to prove that I have not done anything (wrong).

RS and Friends:

Attachment:
Raffaele and Friends.jpg


CRIMEBLOG


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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Didn't Guede make some comment about Amanda being in the downstairs flat on the night of the murder?
I can't remember the context.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:53 am   Post subject:    

capealadin wrote:
Jackie...when I tried to see your video..it came up error has occurred. It said try again later..so I will.


Here's a link to the music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLIUJ0E-suc

Get about 20 seconds in and then imagine you're sitting behind the wheel of this bad boy (except in metallic blue, not red):

Hidden Content: show
Image


Hidden Content: show
Image


Beats the hell outta Raffles' A3.

I'm telling you it's enough to make DG feel cool again - I thought I was too old to care, too, but... Maybe I'm having a midlife crisis :twisted:
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Guardian continues its coverage of the Knox saga:

Amanda Knox: I feel stranded and trapped since new guilty verdict

American tells Guardian she has no escape from being marked as a criminal after re-conviction for murder of Meredith Kercher

By Simon Hattenstone

Knox has this week returned to the University of Washington, where she is studying for a degree in creative writing. The university and fellow students have been supportive, but in an interview with the Guardian, Knox said she felt desperate.

"The stance my university has taken is no matter what is going on with me legally I am still a student, and I've been shown support as far as security goes. I haven't had any backlash. If anything people have been quiet and respectful, but it is like I've just been diagnosed with cancer."

Last week, before the verdict, she had said she felt branded, but now she said it was on an entirely new level. "There's nowhere I can go where there's not this knowledge that I'm this girl who is convicted again. And it's so invasive on my life on a fundamental level.

"I'm never going to be OK with the idea that somebody can quote some judge's decision and say I'm a convicted murderer. I'm still processing it. Being marked as an exoneree is one thing, but being marked as a criminal is another thing and it hurts. It's not OK. I'm not OK with it. It makes me feel so much more isolated and branded."
...
The full version of this interview will be published on the Guardian website on Saturday 8 February.


THE GUARDIAN

Knox on the cover of the Guardian Weekend, 8 February 2014:

Attachment:
Knox on the cover of the Guardian Weekend edition 8 Feb 2014.jpg


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox is like Nelson Mandela says priest from Italian jail where she was held
By Sharon Feinstein, Russell Myers

A prison priest has compared convicted killer Amanda Knox to Nelson Mandela because she is free in “heart and conscience”.

Don Saulo, the chaplain of Capanne prison where Knox spent four years , made the bizarre statement in defence of the American.

Father Saulo said: “Mandela spent half his life in prison, yet he was free within his heart and conscience because he said, ‘I’m innocent’. That’s how it is with Amanda.

“She has the deep conviction that she is innocent, so she says she isn’t a prisoner and never will be.”


MIRROR
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Nell wrote:
A new article from Doug Longhini, long-time supporter of Knox.

A short summary: This is a political conspiracy. Italians want her behind bars because she is American. Hellman knew all along that his ruling would be annulled and explains the conspiracy behind the latest guilty verdict.

Quote:
Following the verdict, judge Hellmann didn’t pull punches. He declared: “the evidence was nonsense.” Suddenly, several prosecutors and judges became the targets of criticism claiming they had mishandled the case from the beginning.
The vice-president of Italy’s judicial oversight committee, Michele Vietti, immediately warned against politicizing the case. Many paid heed. However, Rocco Girlanda did not.

[...]

In April 2013, the Italian Supreme Court threw out judge Claudio Hellmann’s 2011 acquittal of Knox and Sollecito. Now retired, Hellmann told La Stampa newspaper that he “foresaw” the reversal. Hellman said “the party of the prosecutor is very strong in the judiciary” and that political party had “influenced” the Italian Supreme Court, according to La Stampa.

[...]

This wasn’t the first time Claudio Hellmann raised the possibility that political considerations were helping drive the pursuit of Knox and Sollecito. In October 2011, he told La Nazione newspaper that there was “a political background” to the case. It was directed squarely at Amanda Knox. Hellmann said, “Many wanted Amanda in prison because she was an American.”


Doug Longhini has found another reason why Knox's extradition should be denied: Knox is being persecuted because she is American, so in his opinion this could be covered by article 5 of the extradition treaty: Punishment for political offence, for being American.

Quote:
Fair enough. But missing is a reading of the bilateral extradition treaty between the United States and Italy. Specifically, Article 5 of the treaty, which reads:

“Extradition shall not be granted when the offense for which extradition is requested is a political offense/or if the person whose surrender is sought proves that the request for surrender has been made in order to try or punish him or her for a political offense.”

Was Amanda Knox’s “political offense” the fact she was an American? And was her second “political offense” the possibility she became a pawn that two battling Italian political parties used to further their own agendas?


Was Amanda Knox a political pawn in Italian politics by Doug Longhini, February 7, 2014


The embarrassingly inept Mr. Longhini is saying that Amanda Knox killed Amanda Knox as a political act? Or that murder is a political offense? Or, just being American? Oh lawd, if this becomes the standard of reporting in the media over the extradition proceedings, I'll rather watch Real Housewives of Beverly Hills or something.



They way he wants it to be seen is that Amanda Knox being persecuted and prosecuted by Italians for murder is a political offence because she is American, not because she murdered Meredith Kercher. So this is political in his eyes and he has Hellman (annulled and retired) who backs him up. This is all about anti-Americanism apparently and we missed it!

This new theory makes one wonder why Rudy Guede and Raffaele Sollecito were prosecuted, especially since we just learned from Steve Moore that Guede had special protection for being a police informant. So I have no idea how he ended up in prison in the first place.

Sollecito is neither a police informant nor American, so I am at a total loss to understand why he was dragged into this.

Maybe Steve Moore can shed some light into this next time he's invited to talk about the case. If that is still an option after the disaster on the set of CNN's OutFront.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
I also think, Sollecito is genuinely sore at Nencini's hint that his failure to take the stand had a negative impact on his sentence. And I think he has some reason to be annoyed. This is a speculation, but one based on logic. I don't think it was just him and his own legal team that were reluctant for him to take the stand. I think Knox's handlers also didn't want him to testify, the danger of his doing so is absolutely clear. Should he at any time of taken the stand and under cross totally contradicted Knox's defence and testimony, as he undoubtedly would have (to this day they can't get their alibis to match) it would have been seriously damaging to Knox. I think there was a general understanding by all parties that if the accused were to ever take the stand, only ONE of them should do so, so that the testimony of both under cross could not be compared for damaging contradictions. I think the Knox camp's stance to Sollecito was along the lines of, look, in the hearings, all you have to do is keep your mouth shut tight. I think, that not only did Sollecito "choose" not to testify, he was also pressured not to. If I am correct, then right now he will be in hindsight, very bitter about that pressure as Nencini has indicated that this contributed to his reasoning in his refusal to split the trial, per the Sollecito defence request. Of course, I don't think for a single moment that had Sollecito testified it would have saved his neck, but that won't stop Sollecito thinking that maybe, just maybe, if he had it just may have. So, just one more thing on top of the others that he may have to feel resentful towards Knox about. And if you add to that, Knox leaving him to face the music in the appeal alone. Although of course, currently, he's taking that resentment out on Nencini (mostly).


Some where within this is the Green Card scam, Michael. There were so many suggestions made to him via Facebook and even on his GoFundMe page to get married to someone, the better to stay away from Italy. I believe Kelsey Kaye when she says he proposed marriage to Amanda Knox, and that he is annoyed with her for turning him down. Knox's photo shoots with him in Manhattan and their walkabouts (with Edda as duenna two steps behind) can be seen in a different light now.


I absolutely agree with this.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox is like Nelson Mandela says priest from Italian jail where she was held
By Sharon Feinstein, Russell Myers

A prison priest has compared convicted killer Amanda Knox to Nelson Mandela because she is free in “heart and conscience”.

Don Saulo, the chaplain of Capanne prison where Knox spent four years , made the bizarre statement in defence of the American.

Father Saulo said: “Mandela spent half his life in prison, yet he was free within his heart and conscience because he said, ‘I’m innocent’. That’s how it is with Amanda.

“She has the deep conviction that she is innocent, so she says she isn’t a prisoner and never will be.”


MIRROR



Most call Mandela a Freedom Fighter..others a Terrorist. Read the Rivonia Trial. He did commit terrorist acts..saying he had no other option. He has said that he violated Human rights.

In any event..my motto is not to get into religious or political discussions. I am South African..and do know of which I speak. I will not get into it further..suffice to say....Nelson himself admits to heinous acts. That Priest should understand the History before being so quick to compare.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Okay, everybody, I've managed to rescue the True Crime Weblog Message Board in it's entirety (kinda, I think), via the Wayback Machine. I've uploaded the links to the Main Discussion threads and The Murder of Meredith Kercher subforum into our own PMF "Murder of Meredith Kercher" subforum here: THE TRUE CRIME WEBLOG MESSAGE BOARD (2008)

I have also added the links to some of the Haloscans and to the Disqus. I will do more later...

Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here on the True Crime Weblog Message Board I've found a post that briefly references the face-to-face: http://web.archive.org/web/200812100521 ... 6.html#236


There would have been on/off discussion about it after that, but this post makes it clear that the discussion of when it it all first came up was some ways before the date of this post (April 30, 2008).

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Aranavachi wrote:
Michael wrote:
In addition to the text Amanda sent Meredith earlier that day (day of the murder) asking if Meredith wanted to do something with her that evening, to which Meredith replied thanks but no thanks, I've got stuff on tonight. That was two days in a row Amanda had solicited Meredith to hang out with her and got the push-off (albeit politely and kindly).

ETA: And no, Knox certainly wasn't planning on going into work if she was asking Meredith to go out with her that night. The "work alibi" which never was an alibi at all.


What time was this text sent? I was under the impression that there was no contact between Amanda and Meredith after Meredith left the house in the afternoon...



I don't recall, off the top of my head. McCall knows.


Aranavachi wrote:
Thank you so much Michael for the perfect instructions!



You are most welcome :)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox is like Nelson Mandela says priest from Italian jail where she was held
By Sharon Feinstein, Russell Myers

A prison priest has compared convicted killer Amanda Knox to Nelson Mandela because she is free in “heart and conscience”.

Don Saulo, the chaplain of Capanne prison where Knox spent four years , made the bizarre statement in defence of the American.

Father Saulo said: “Mandela spent half his life in prison, yet he was free within his heart and conscience because he said, ‘I’m innocent’. That’s how it is with Amanda.

“She has the deep conviction that she is innocent, so she says she isn’t a prisoner and never will be.”


MIRROR



Most call Mandela a Freedom Fighter..others a Terrorist. Read the Rivonia Trial. He did commit terrorist acts..saying he had no other option. He has said that he violated Human rights.

In any event..my motto is not to get into religious or political discussions. I am South African..and do know of which I speak. I will not get into it further..suffice to say....Nelson himself admits to heinous acts. That Priest should understand the History before being so quick to compare.



Comparing Amanda Knox to Nelson Mandela is...well...speechless. Although, I do think Marriott should put him on the pay role.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Amanda Knox is like Nelson Mandela says priest from Italian jail where she was held

Few human beings can be compared to Jesus Christ. Nelson Mandela was one - By Peter Oborne World Last updated: December 6th, 2013

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100249502/few-human-beings-can-be-compared-to-jesus-christ-nelson-mandela-was-one/
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Who is Amanda Knox?
By Simon Hattenstone
Saturday 8 February 2014

THE GUARDIAN
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Who is Amanda Knox?
By Simon Hattenstone
Saturday 8 February 2014

THE GUARDIAN

Thanks. Too much blabla, but I noticed the Hunger Games comparison.

Quote:
"To have a Hunger Games moment with you, at a certain point the main character is talking about how he doesn't want the games to change him. He's a pawn, and he's just in it, and it's overwhelming his life, but he doesn't want it to define who he is. And I felt like that. I don't want this to be my life."

The Hunger Games is about young people forced to kill each other.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The priest who compared Knox to Mandela got one thing right, they both served time :)

Nelson Mandela, like Mohandas Gandhi, was a great, but flawed human being (With all love to the ANC guys I used to hang out with)

Amanda Knox is someone for whom I wish completion, as in jail time, which is actually preferable to life as she knows it now.
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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

being compared to Nelson Mandela!!!!!!


Did i read this right?! Did Amanda try to overthrow the Italian government? Have I missed something?

Just when you thought this PR campaign could not get more ridiculous. It really is a matter of go big or go home! If you're going to lie, it better be so big that no one thinks to question it.

I want to roll over laughing and at the same time cry about the media twisting in this case.

puuuffff! I had to let that out. What a state of affairs!
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:

Déjà vu. Curt!..ah never mind...he probably thinks it's sexy :)




'Ohhhhh...pity party. I thought the memo said titty party!!'

BTW that is Madison Paxton under the jacket, not Amanda Knox. The convicted liar and her friends & family are seen here engaging in decoy maneuvers in advance of her run to Ecuador.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Jackie...when I tried to see your video..it came up error has occurred. It said try again later..so I will.

Fantastic posts. I keep on learning. And, thankfully, one doesn't have to be a Rocket Scientist to grasp the meanings.
I also think you would have made a great Lawyer, Michael. But..you do have to have that mechanism that allows you to shut off from the emotional. In as much as it's about fact, evidence etc. That doesn't mean Lawyers don't get emotional. Let's see.It COULD be that in certain instances..the Lawyer truly believes his/her client is innocent.
Or..the fees they're getting could bring them near to tears with Joy.
Or..they've taken the case pro Bono..especially a Huge News one. Then the publicity could bring mucho bucks. But..if they lose...then emotions could seriously come into play:)
In the end...Lawyers want to win. It's ego..it's validation that they're smart..and in most cases..beat the odds. Lawyers are always nervous when waiting for a verdict. Because, in the end..even if they have a * slam Dunk * case..there's those * JURORS*. Think Casey Anthony..George Zimmerman..etc.

I'd like to think I'd have been a good Lawyer. But as a Prosecutor.



Yes. With me, in respect to a path, I have to feel that I'm changing the World or I rapidly lose motivation. My perfect idea of Hell, is to be trapped working a 9 - 5 in an office block administrating insurance policies, or marketing coffee pots, or some similar soul sucking purgatory.

As for being smart and winning, that's meaningless for me if the cause has little value to humanity and right. Pride is of service to nobody and is very bad for the soul.

I think you'd have made a good prosecutor, too :)


I don't want to burst anyone's bubble about prosecutors, but I was married to the a very senior prosecutor when my son was born. The prosecutor was very well read, well traveled, a very engaging conversationalist, spontaneous, charming and, on the surface, a very well rounded person. Sometimes you meet someone and want to get to know them a little better, so you try to peel off a couple of layers to see what's beneath the surface. Sometimes, you find yourself in an empty shell. The facade is perfect, but there's nothing inside. With the prosecutor, this wasn't true, but what is inside was different from the charming facade.

Someone that prosecutes horrendous murders for decades has been consumed by that work. That is true of all criminal prosecutors. The eat, sleep and dream what it is to get inside the minds of the people that commit the murders. The ugly side of the human condition can become so overwhelming that it becomes difficult to see the good in others. When it is difficult to see the good in others, it's almost natural to try to get inside people's minds to examine the motives behind each action. Unfortunately, if there is disagreement between the perceived motive and the actual motive, this can result in a persecutorial reaction. That is, the prosecutor will persecute for perceived motive. There is extreme manipulation and control, similar to what is done with a defendant on the witness stand when information is sought. Without getting further into my perception of the minds of the prosecutors, I would like to point out that there is an awful lot of turmoil, pain, angst and stress associated with the job such that prosecutors, on a personal, familiar level, are not necessarily nice people. I base this opinion on socializing with many criminal prosecutors over several years.

When I was pregnant with my son, I would join my son's father and his colleagues for Friday afternoon drinks. They got drunk, I drank soda water. I remember one day when they were joking about the guy that got the ice pick in the ear. I was horrified, but they were so desensitized that they laugh about things like this for hours. It was their coping method. When the sobered up, they returned to the reality of trying to think like murderers so that they could better prosecute them.

I suppose what I'm saying is that although we do put prosecutors on a pedestal for their dedication to justice, I would not be the first person lining up to say that I would want to be one.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
I also think, Sollecito is genuinely sore at Nencini's hint that his failure to take the stand had a negative impact on his sentence. And I think he has some reason to be annoyed. This is a speculation, but one based on logic. I don't think it was just him and his own legal team that were reluctant for him to take the stand. I think Knox's handlers also didn't want him to testify, the danger of his doing so is absolutely clear. Should he at any time of taken the stand and under cross totally contradicted Knox's defence and testimony, as he undoubtedly would have (to this day they can't get their alibis to match) it would have been seriously damaging to Knox. I think there was a general understanding by all parties that if the accused were to ever take the stand, only ONE of them should do so, so that the testimony of both under cross could not be compared for damaging contradictions. I think the Knox camp's stance to Sollecito was along the lines of, look, in the hearings, all you have to do is keep your mouth shut tight. I think, that not only did Sollecito "choose" not to testify, he was also pressured not to. If I am correct, then right now he will be in hindsight, very bitter about that pressure as Nencini has indicated that this contributed to his reasoning in his refusal to split the trial, per the Sollecito defence request. Of course, I don't think for a single moment that had Sollecito testified it would have saved his neck, but that won't stop Sollecito thinking that maybe, just maybe, if he had it just may have. So, just one more thing on top of the others that he may have to feel resentful towards Knox about. And if you add to that, Knox leaving him to face the music in the appeal alone. Although of course, currently, he's taking that resentment out on Nencini (mostly).


Some where within this is the Green Card scam, Michael. There were so many suggestions made to him via Facebook and even on his GoFundMe page to get married to someone, the better to stay away from Italy. I believe Kelsey Kaye when she says he proposed marriage to Amanda Knox, and that he is annoyed with her for turning him down. Knox's photo shoots with him in Manhattan and their walkabouts (with Edda as duenna two steps behind) can be seen in a different light now.


I absolutely agree with this.


The idea that people get a green card just by marrying someone..is so way off the mark. There are INTERVIEWS! Couples are seperated..asked questions. i.e. Have you met family members? How did you meet? Howlong have you known each other? They expect to see photos. Etc..etc..
A promise and proof to support. Let's say someone agrees to marry Raffles. She may..at any time within 2 years not file for him. Over. After 2 years there is another interview..checking that the marriage is on track.

Oh..and if the marriage is found to be a fraud..fines upto $250,000. And..deportation.
There are a lot of other requirements as well. It's not just nicely wrapped up as a gift.
Oh..and for Raffles.Ummmmm..the fact that HE IS ON APPEAL FOR MURDER...will probably not bode well for him. NOT BY A LONG SHOT. In fact...he won't even get in the door :)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks for sharing, Jester. Doctors, Psychiatrists, Psychologists all share this very same problem, of sensitivity to the person, situation, they confront, or try to make sense of, try to resolve. Healers become sick, artists go mad.

I respect that for many prosecutors, public defenders, it still is a calling. For those for which it is a job, perhaps that's where the conflict arises at some point?

I like to believe that most of us will be in court, saying "the quality of mercy is not strained, it droppeth like gentle rain from heaven. Upon the places beneath."

But in my heart I say what Marcus Aurelius wrote: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marcu ... tForSakCos

Quote:
3. Justice: Acting for the Sake of the Cosmopolis

Marcus says that one should be concerned with two things only: acting justly and loving what is allotted one (x.11, cf. xii.1). He fleshes out ‘acting justly’ in terms of acting communally (ix.31), and adds that wherever one is, one should live as a citizen of the cosmic city (x.15). Appeal to the idea that the cosmos is a city allows him to say that we should do well for all humanity (viii.23), for we each have a citizen's duty to contribute to the welfare of the whole cosmopolis. Conversely, anyone who does not contribute to the communal goal (to koinônikon telos) is acting seditiously (ix.23); one may not even hate one man, for this rends the community (xi.8).
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
The idea that people get a green card just by marrying someone..is so way off the mark. There are INTERVIEWS! Couples are seperated..asked questions. i.e. Have you met family members? How did you meet? Howlong have you known each other? They expect to see photos. Etc..etc..
A promise and proof to support. Let's say someone agrees to marry Raffles. She may..at any time within 2 years not file for him. Over. After 2 years there is another interview..checking that the marriage is on track.

Oh..and if the marriage is found to be a fraud..fines upto $250,000. And..deportation.
There are a lot of other requirements as well. It's not just nicely wrapped up as a gift.
Oh..and for Raffles.Ummmmm..the fact that HE IS ON APPEAL FOR MURDER...will probably not bode well for him. NOT BY A LONG SHOT. In fact...he won't even get in the door :)


It appears that Knox's supporters were stringing Sollecito along for years, giving him the false impression that he was entitled to US protections, and all he had to do was play along. As encouragement, they kept his GoFundMe account topped up and offerred explanations for evidence against him. He played along, but when it looked like all options were exhausted, he went to Knox and told her that it was time for Plan B: a marriage license. When that was refused, he must have thought that Plan B was the woman in Idaho (perhaps, in his mind, an Innocence Project association). When that fell through, he ran to the DR to lick his wounds and perhaps attempt the Plan B with his girlfriend there. In the end, he returned to Italy and tried to cook up a Plan B with his Italian girlfriend (Austria).

After all of that, he must have felt abandoned by his US supporters. It must have been a realization for him that although there have been years of "talk" of protecting him, it was all hollow. Now, trapped in Italy, he is probably more in tune with reality. He probably views Knox's supporters as having misled him, and views himself as having been naive, vulnerable and foolish in having believed them. I think that his perspective of the case has shifted 180 degrees and he now, for the first time, sees himself as standing alone with his only genuine support coming from long term friends and family. I am very interested in seeing how this shifts the tone and focus of his appeal.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, cape, you and I know about green cards and the whole 9 yards, but as reported, Sollecito did seriously get into this delusion, much abetted by people who weren't er, thinking rationally. And you missed the whole Frank Sfarzo thing, but FS did try it also, and seriously entertained the idea whilst in the US. I've been tracing the links between Sfarzo and Sollecito, and both of them even seriously entertained the thought of fleeing to Australia, but as their legal troubles began to mount, discussed countries that didn't have extradition treaties.

So I contacted Sollecito and asked the question here: https://twitter.com/manfromatlan/status ... 9289246720

Naseer Ahmad‏ @manfromatlan ·
@Raffasolaries I replied to you and have question. Did you or your family pay #FrankSfarzo ?
8:29 PM - 23 Sep 2013

Raffaele Sollecito ‏@Raffasolaries · Sep 23
@manfromatlan what do you mean? Pay what? Be clear and straight please. What do you want to know?

Aunty Moore rides to the rescue:

Michelle Moore ‏@michellesings · Sep 24
@Raffasolaries @manfromatlan you gotta BLOCK that dude. He's cyber troll nutter. Please, for your own sake block him, he can't reason.

Naseer Ahmad ‏@manfromatlan · Sep 24
@Raffasolaries OK. What is your family's relationship with Frank Sfarzo?

Haven't heard back since, but we found out he's in cahoots with Sfarzo, and Spezi.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Thanks for sharing, Jester. Doctors, Psychiatrists, Psychologists all share this very same problem, of sensitivity to the person, situation, they confront, or try to make sense of, try to resolve. Healers become sick, artists go mad.

I respect that for many prosecutors, public defenders, it still is a calling. For those for which it is a job, perhaps that's where the conflict arises at some point?

I like to believe that most of us will be in court, saying "the quality of mercy is not strained, it droppeth like gentle rain from heaven. Upon the places beneath."

But in my heart I say what Marcus Aurelius wrote: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marcu ... tForSakCos

Quote:
3. Justice: Acting for the Sake of the Cosmopolis

Marcus says that one should be concerned with two things only: acting justly and loving what is allotted one (x.11, cf. xii.1). He fleshes out ‘acting justly’ in terms of acting communally (ix.31), and adds that wherever one is, one should live as a citizen of the cosmic city (x.15). Appeal to the idea that the cosmos is a city allows him to say that we should do well for all humanity (viii.23), for we each have a citizen's duty to contribute to the welfare of the whole cosmopolis. Conversely, anyone who does not contribute to the communal goal (to koinônikon telos) is acting seditiously (ix.23); one may not even hate one man, for this rends the community (xi.8).


The job of prosecutor is always a calling. As each case is examined in terms of whether it can be prosecuted, the victim is the focus. It is always a balance between the wishes of the victim's family, the suspect, and justice. First, the victim is understood. There is loss and empathy, and the question of what circumstances led to this result. Then the suspect is understood, which requires not only viewing the context of the murder, but the context of the suspect's life. How did it come to this? The family always wants a maximum sentence and the prosecutor does the very best to achieve this but, often enough, the result is that the convict receives a lesser sentence; although first degree charges are brought, second degree murder charges are ruled. Many times, the victim's family is not appreciative of the prosecutor's efforts.

After 30 years as a senior prosecutor, it was not a violent, random murder that resulted in retirment and job change (still in justice), but two children that were victims by their father's hand. It's a deep understanding of the truly broken people, and the need to understand them in order to do the job, that skews their perception of everyone they encounter. It is the true understanding that everyone is capable of crossing the line into murder when a specific set of circumstances are aligned.

My opinion is that it is not possible to pursue the calling of criminal prosecutor without becoming immersed in the minds of murderers. Prosecutors love to win (even outside the courtroom), but they recognize that they're only as good as their last conviction. The standing joke is that it's more fun to convict the innocent because it's a better challenge.


Last edited by Jester on Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I think that quite possibly, I may make a good prosecutor. But I had strong reservations. Jester has now come along and gotten to the core of what was concerning me. It is a simple truth: When you stare into the abyss, it also stares back into you.

But we here already have a good idea what it must be like to be a prosecutor, since we on one level or another have been functioning as defacto lay-prosecutors in the court of public opinion. And to do that, we have had to spend a long time getting into the heads of people like Knox and Sollecito, examining the cost of the crime in terms of the evil that was done to Meredith and by extension, her family and friends. We have had to rub shoulders all over the interweb with staggeringly obnoxious, dishonest and ignorant people (and some downright evil) in the form of the FOAKers. After years of that it takes a toll on the heart and soul, I know it certainly has on mine. It is nigh impossible to not be tainted by the negativity that surrounds this crime and the supporters of those who carried it out. Just watching their treatment of the victim's family is enough to make one physically ill.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

(( OT OT ))

I'm just wondering how much more it's going to take before a state of emergency is declared here in England.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So true, Michael, which is why we have to balance it with the true innocence with which life begins, to stare into that which is pure so we keep a healthy perspective. (my daughter with her daughter at 2 weeks)
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
(( OT OT ))

I'm just wondering how much more it's going to take before a state of emergency is declared here in England.


What's going on there ... super storm?

Huge storm and flooding? Are you okay? Flooding is disastrous and takes months for recovery.


Last edited by Jester on Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:15 pm   Post subject: RAFFAELE SOLLECITO, NOWHERE LEFT TO RUN   

Hi, Jester, you are so right. RS was strung along by the FOAK, he thought a book deal (thanks to Kelsey Kay we know he got paid $975,000-yet still pleads poverty) media appearances and groupie adulation would translate into political interference in the trial (happened with Hellmann) and he'd get to ride off into the sunset. Didn't happen.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michelle Moore ‏@michellesings · Sep 24
@Raffasolaries @manfromatlan you gotta BLOCK that dude. He's cyber troll nutter. Please, for your own sake block him, he can't reason.

Michelle Moore calling someone a nutter
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
So true, Michael, which is why we have to balance it with the true innocence with which life begins, to stare into that which is pure so we keep a healthy perspective. (my daughter with her daughter at 2 weeks)


Mazel tov, and joy to you and your family, Jester. These are the things that keep us balanced: The work (Ergon :) our family, our relationships and friends.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
Michelle Moore ‏@michellesings · Sep 24
@Raffasolaries @manfromatlan you gotta BLOCK that dude. He's cyber troll nutter. Please, for your own sake block him, he can't reason.

Michelle Moore calling someone a nutter


Well, I AM a wee bit different, ttrroonniicc :)

But I haven't killed anyone, and I haven't accused an innocent man of murder. That's why the Guardian won't send someone to interview me, I guess ss)
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:27 pm   Post subject: Re: RAFFAELE SOLLECITO, NOWHERE LEFT TO RUN   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, Jester, you are so right. RS was strung along by the FOAK, he thought a book deal (thanks to Kelsey Kay we know he got paid $975,000-yet still pleads poverty) media appearances and groupie adulation would translate into political interference in the trial (happened with Hellmann) and he'd get to ride off into the sunset. Didn't happen.


I think everyone knew that he not only had plenty of family money, but plenty of book money. People that contributed to his fund knew that he was using it for travel and vacation, yet they still regularly topped up his Go Fund Me account. Was this part of buying his silence? He claims that he was guilty by association with Knox. Can he also claim that Knox was perceived as naïve and innocent by association with him? He is clearly distancing himself, but he is maintaining a polite, gentle façade. Knox does not come across as gentle or polite, but as hard, harsh, unpleasant, robotic, repetitive, and sticking to her lines. There is nothing genuine about her, but Sollecito is coming across as gentle and genuine - he always has. Even in his texts with the Australian woman, he states that he always admitted that he had a girlfriend and that it is his nature to treat women a certain way; to be gentle and sweet with them. He implies that the Australian woman misunderstood his Italian culture of how men relate to women.

If he separates himself from the PR Firm party line, the media influence, and the support for Knox, does he stand a chance of having his case separated? I suppose I'm wondering if there is any possibility that an appeal can be made on the basis that he was manipulated by a massive PR movement to support Knox, to his own detriment. For example, did people like Judge Heavey contribute to his account and could that not be perceived as US judicial interference? It wouldn't be the first time that he used his position as a judge to attempt to influence the outcome of the case.

I have read that it's too late, but could the massive media manipulation of his emotions to support the American woman be perceived as a good appeal argument?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:47 pm   Post subject: Re; RAFFAELE SOLLECITO, NOWHERE LEFT TO RUN   

Jester, I will probably be corrected all over the place by Italian and, not Italian, or lawyers :) but here goes anyway. I believe his one chance would be to say he was there, but Knox instigated and carried out the murder. His lawyers would have to argue that at the Supreme Court, and nothing else, that he wasn't there. Can the SC then vary his sentence? I do not know. But this is his Saturn return year, where at age 29-30 everyone gets to re-evaluate their life, how did they get there, and whether they need a change of direction?

I hope for his sake, that he will come clean. I also think, he feels trapped, and can't do anything about it. But, there always are solutions in life, the truth being the first.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

For the record, I believe that Raffaele Sollecito tortured Meredith with the small knife (I saw the necklace of cuts under the jawline).
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

How about if we construct the argument from the beginning. Knox was arrested and three days later a PR Firm was hired for the specific purpose of manipulating information such that Knox is depicted as wrongfully arrested. She is closely aligned with the nice young Italian man, a computer science student weeks away from graduation. He is sweet and innocent with one previous, gentle relationship with a nice young girl.

Sollecito's simple history is used to whitewash Knox's sluttish history. His affection for drugs to avoid his loneliness and the loss of his mother is used to cleanse Knox's thirst for extreme experience with drugs and strangers.

He attended a classical music concert, where he met the American woman. He was perplexed by her because she didn't seem to understand the rhythm of classical music, but also intrigued because he was curious and inexperienced - perhaps stunned that a wild American woman was interested in him. She told him where she worked, and he went there with friends that evening. She went home with him and essentially moved in with him. He was, from then, under her influence. He viewed his time with her as something out of a fairy tale, or a magical moment in Amelie, or Wonderland, world.

On the night of the murder, she went out alone before Amelie ended. He thought that she was going to work. She asked him to turn off his phone until she returned, something like a "trust" experiment. He stayed in, finished watching Amelie, watched his Japanese anime, and slept until 5:30-6 in the morning. He remembers nothing about what happened while he slept - doesn't remember her returning to his apartment.

She left at 10 n the morning to change and prepare for their trip to Gubbio, and returned with a strange story about the door being open at the cottage. It didn't seem urgent, so they had lunch before walking over to check the cottage. The murder was eventually discovered. Knox asked him to lie for her, to claim that she was with him throughout the night, because she was afraid that she would be blamed. He saw no reason not to lie, because he saw no reason that she, his sweet Amelie, could be involved. He consoled her outside the cottage because she was afraid, clingy and demanding of affection. He didn't know how to respond when she sat on his lap at the police station, so he tolerated her unusual behaviour. The language barrier prevented him from understanding the nature of her crass remarks.

He told police on November 5/6 that he lied to them because Knox asked him to lie. That was the day that the PR Firm influence began. From then, and throughout the trial, people from Knox's camp contacted him, and gave him money that he didn't need, to ensure that he supported her. They encouraged him to flee and hide, to never tell the truth. He went along with it because he loved the image that he had of Knox in his mind - an image that could not be farther from reality.

Here we are, seven years later. Can Sollecito claim that he was manipulated and influenced by the PR Firm? It cannot be denied that the PR Firm is powerful, as there are plenty of people, including major media organizations (CNN, CBS) that are similarly influenced. Is he but a gentle person that wanted to protect a sweet innocent woman (whom he no longer views as sweet or innocent) because he was under PR influence and he felt obligated to protect her? In fact, he has pretty much admitted that he perceived Knox one way, but that she is entirely another way.

The DNA on the clasp has always been, per Knox and Sollecito defence arguments, a result of contamination, but the source of contamination has not been presented. An obvious source of contamination is Knox - Knox transferred his DNA from under her fingernails to the clasp. The bathmat print is on textured fabric, so perhaps there's some room to argue that it is not an authentic print. He did not notice that she took the knife, but his DNA should be on it and it is not. Instead, Knox's DNA and that of Meredith are on the knife. Obviously Knox returned the knife to the drawer so that it would not be missed by him. The lies told by Sollecito could be explained as misplaced loyalty.

Can he not crawl out from under this with one clear statement that the huge media and social influences on him; a naïve and vulnerable Italian that does not understand the true nature of the American ways and women, carefully guided him to make the wrong choices since the day of the murder?


Last edited by Jester on Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

hugz-) Oh Jester, what a beautiful picture of your daughter with your grandchild! Stunning.

And thank you for the insight into the world of the prosecutor. I always find your posts eloquent and illuminating .
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
(( OT OT ))

I'm just wondering how much more it's going to take before a state of emergency is declared here in England.


What's going on there ... super storm?

Huge storm and flooding? Are you okay? Flooding is disastrous and takes months for recovery.



It isn't "A" storm, it's storm after storm after storm after storm. And there are more storms coming. And in between the storms is the rain. Parts of the country have been flooded for over a month and the waters are rising, not going down. This is how bad it's gotten, we are having to give the penguins anti-depressants:

Penguins given 'happy pills' in soaking Britain

Feb 07, 2014

After weeks of rain and wind, miserable penguins at a marine centre in England are being fed anti-depressants to cheer them up.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2014-02-penguins-h ... itain.html

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
(( OT OT ))

I'm just wondering how much more it's going to take before a state of emergency is declared here in England.


What's going on there ... super storm?

Huge storm and flooding? Are you okay? Flooding is disastrous and takes months for recovery.



It isn't "A" storm, it's storm after storm after storm after storm. And there are more storms coming. And in between the storms is the rain. Parts of the country have been flooded for over a month and the waters are rising, not going down. This is how bad it's gotten, we are having to give the penguins anti-depressants:

Penguins given 'happy pills' in soaking Britain

Feb 07, 2014

After weeks of rain and wind, miserable penguins at a marine centre in England are being fed anti-depressants to cheer them up.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2014-02-penguins-h ... itain.html


Well at least the penguins are no longer upset about the rain! It sounds like a good year to invest in UK rain gear and post-flood contruction stocks ... and maybe happy pills for people.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester, what you said. I like the way your mind works, though I doubt that is the way RS and his lawyer's minds work :)

And, except, in this case the evidence is clear: like attracted like (only he had a penis to be led around with) so he's kinda stuck.

At this time it's execution, then trial, as far as I am concerned.

Hope my friends in the UK are OK. Is it bad as 2007, Michael?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Jester, what you said. I like the way your mind works, though I doubt that is the way RS and his lawyer's minds work :)

And, except, in this case the evidence is clear: like attracted like (only he had a penis to be led around with) so he's kinda stuck.

At this time it's execution, then trial, as far as I am concerned.

Hope my friends in the UK are OK. Is it bad as 2007, Michael?


The defence of victim of extreme manipulation might have had more success in arguing separation of defendants than whatever was argued. Bongiorno dramatically swinging knives in court while making ridiculous facial expressions and repeating denied arguments was a waste of everyone's time. However, I think that it wasn't until this appeal was well under way that Sollecito fully understood that he was nothing more than a pawn in Knox's defence, and that there was never any authenticity from her camp to support his defence. Now that he gets it, if he gives his lawyers free reign to present a solid case of innocence, the appeal application could take on a whole new façade.

If entire media networks can be manipulated into believing nonsense, how can anyone deny that a vulnerable, naive Italian computer student could not be easily manipulated into believing nonsense and thereby coerced into doing someone else's bidding? I would almost enjoy seeing the PR Firm efforts backfire such that Sollecito uses that PR Firm manipulation and media network propaganda as his defence. It would become a Catch 22 in terms of the networks coming clean about whether they are delusional about the facts of the case. Either the networks are delusional and therefore it is completely reasonable that Sollecito was delusional, or the networks are not delusional but report the story on the basis of ratings, and it is known to them that Knox is justifiably convicted of murder.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

:lol: A little humour to lighten your day:

http://www.gossipgawker.com/2014/02/07/ ... anda-knox/
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just watched the latest episode of Quarto Grado (starts @~1hr 04 min):

http://www.video.mediaset.it/video/quarto_grado/full/437862/puntata-del-7-febbraio.html

Does this face look like a face of an innocent person?

Attachment:
Sollecito on Quarto Grado-1.JPG


Attachment:
Sollecito on Piers Morgan Live.png


Sunday on Italy 1 new episode of Lucignolo 2.0, with Enrico Ruggeri and Marco Berry. Lucignolo met with Raffaele Sollecito, who tells his version of events after the final judgment of January 30, which sentenced him to 25 years in prison.


LO SPACCA TV


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:43 am   Post subject: Re: RAFFAELE SOLLECITO, NOWHERE TO RUN   

Jester wrote:
The defence of victim of extreme manipulation might have had more success in arguing separation of defendants than whatever was argued. Bongiorno dramatically swinging knives in court while making ridiculous facial expressions and repeating denied arguments was a waste of everyone's time. However, I think that it wasn't until this appeal was well under way that Sollecito fully understood that he was nothing more than a pawn in Knox's defence, and that there was never any authenticity from her camp to support his defence. Now that he gets it, if he gives his lawyers free reign to present a solid case of innocence, the appeal application could take on a whole new façade.

If entire media networks can be manipulated into believing nonsense, how can anyone deny that a vulnerable, naive Italian computer student could not be easily manipulated into believing nonsense and thereby coerced into doing someone else's bidding? I would almost enjoy seeing the PR Firm efforts backfire such that Sollecito uses that PR Firm manipulation and media network propaganda as his defence. It would become a Catch 22 in terms of the networks coming clean about whether they are delusional about the facts of the case. Either the networks are delusional and therefore it is completely reasonable that Sollecito was delusional, or the networks are not delusional but report the story on the basis of ratings, and it is known to them that Knox is justifiably convicted of murder.



Except, his lawyer spent three trials arguing she isn't Amelie in Seattle, and she isn't Venus in Furs (Note to self-gotta read it again :) so I don't know how that's going to fly.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

louiehaha wrote:
...BTW that is Madison Paxton under the jacket, not Amanda Knox. The convicted liar and her friends & family are seen here engaging in decoy maneuvers in advance of her run to Ecuador.


LOU!

I've been wondering where you were - I was sure you'd be thrilled with the news on Judgment Day.

I, too, have been betting on Ecuador - it would be a massive step down from Seattle but I'm told that Ecuadorians can do wonderful things with their staple:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=454&p=118019&hilit=ecuador#p118019
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Just watched the latest episode of Quarto Grado (starts @~1hr 04 min):

http://www.video.mediaset.it/video/quarto_grado/full/437862/puntata-del-7-febbraio.html

Does this face look like a face of an innocent person?

Attachment:
Sollecito on Quarto Grado-1.JPG


Attachment:
Sollecito on Piers Morgan Live.png


Sunday on Italy 1 new episode of Lucignolo 2.0, with Enrico Ruggeri and Marco Berry. Lucignolo met with Raffaele Sollecito, who tells his version of events after the final judgment of January 30, which sentenced him to 25 years in prison.


LO SPACCA TV



Actually, looks like the kind of guy that would think it was funny to tell Laura and Filomena that Meredith's body was found "completely covered in Vaseline" (Follain p. 124).
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Got this in e-mail today, Jackie :) https://secure.internationalliving.com/ ... geNumber=2

International Living Magazine for expatriates, Report on Equador.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

If Vecchiotti matched DNA from a corpse to a family friend so that police would stop looking for him, were there any repercussions?
I would have thought that such an act would ruin a career.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Participants of the action in support of Sollecito in Giovinazzo:

RAFFELE (sic) E' INNOCENTE (video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfRzdWPi13g

For some reason, placards with the words "RAF è innocente" reminded me of the logo of the German left-wing militant group "Rote Armee Fraktion" (RAF) - [Red Army Faction]

Attachment:
RAF.jpg


Attachment:
RAFF.PNG


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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks for posting that Guermantes.
Not a huge turn out for a home town. I thought they could have rallyed a few more troops......
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Given that his family released Meredith's nude body video to Telenorba, displaying her picture on that banner is just another obscenity he's perpetuated.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

And now there's going to be another media bun fight over Schapelle Corby.
Yet another criminal who will end up as a millionaire thanks to the ability to sell interviews!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yeah, there are certain parallels between the two cases:

Dealing with threats just a small part of reporting on Schapelle Corby case
By Eamonn Duff

"This small, cult-like group launches daily attacks against me."

THE SYDNEY MORNING HERALD
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Offline Maria


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Absolutely beautiful photo Jester
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Yeah, there are certain parallels between the two cases:

Dealing with threats just a small part of reporting on Schapelle Corby case
By Eamonn Duff

"This small, cult-like group launches daily attacks against me."

THE SYDNEY MORNING HERALD


Amanda Knox, Schapelle Corby, David Bain (from NZ) - all guilty people protesting innocence who have a very nasty, very active group of supporters.
It doesn't ever seem to be the group supporting guilt who behave in such an abominable way.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Participants of the action in support of Sollecito in Giovinazzo:

RAFFELE (sic) E' INNOCENTE (video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfRzdWPi13g

For some reason, placards with the words "RAF è innocente" reminded me of the logo of the German left-wing militant group "Rote Armee Fraktion" (RAF) - [Red Army Faction]

Attachment:
RAF.jpg


Attachment:
RAFF.PNG


I just watched the video and noticed how they shamelessly use Meredith's image to promote this murderer. It is insensitive considering that Meredith's family has made it very clear they believe them to be guilty. They just cannot let it go, can they?

I noticed a guy in the small crowd who looked a bit like the climber they used for the reconstruction of the break-in, Riccardo Panella, a staff member from the Perugian climbing club Tacche e Svasi. I am not sure it is him though. Hard to say.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Got this in e-mail today, Jackie :) https://secure.internationalliving.com/ ... geNumber=2

International Living Magazine for expatriates, Report on Equador.


LOL

Don't tell me you're going to flee the jurisdiction, too, Ergon!

I like that, BTW: "International Living Magazine" - I'll bet the "lovebirds" have back issues piled up on their coffee tables ;-)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester: I feel the love. Blessings. So very beautiful.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

OT....

I have a clogged sink.In the Kitchen. I thought I could fix it. WRONG!! After buying Liquid plumber..googling..using Baking soda and vinegar..I feel a right fool :)

The plumber arrives at 9.00 am. Why am I posting this? Because..for all the macho guys out there..we women do Believe you can fix these things:)

If Michael could give instructions to fix this......like he does Computer problems...I'd be in 7th heaven.

Bloody Hell.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sorry not posted.

Great news that the two killers were found guilty, again.

I'm in London, came for mother's 80th. Big party. Cannot leave as have assignments that came in.

The key to the truth is through the cowardice seen in Sollecito.

It is this way because at the point he actually gets locked up after the Supreme Court ruling, confirming --assuming it does as I am not the Machine who can know what lay judges and judges will do before they do it, and I certainly cannot claim to know what Supreme Court judges will do, and there are a lot of them too, but I do think it will be confirmed-- then him knowing there are no more get out cards to play, no more sunny work seeking/marriage seeking holidays in the sun and seeing his oh so big love of his life (1 week) out on free foot, he is going to freak out big time, cazzo that he is

It is not as if he does not have a mean streak, in fact, he his in fact very mean, he acts like Mr Soft but he has contempt for everything, especially anyone with any kind of authority and that means even in institutions, etc., like schools, anything like that, he is just better than they are and above them and they are all... well so many things according to him, for instance, Judge Nencini, again written off like Sollecito himself is some kind of God of Providence, yes he who has the right, above, country, God, law, people who studied, had top jobs or even just worked somewhere like in a store, no, they are all wrong and he is right because he has the right. DUH... the only work his study has brought him is making online accounts for the benefit of his own propaganda and trying to coax young women into marrying up to a contract with him.

What is he, some Hindu who upon dying will have wife cast into the fire too (written in will?)?

Is he the worst case example of what a Muslim could be, terrorising, radical, an Italian Catholic Muslim, er, yes, she shall sign the contract and do as I say, for I am the head of the house, my mother and her mother said so, they taught me to be a man and to boss women about.

Kelsey doesn't know how lucky she was, or perhaps she just wasn't as stupid as he took everyone else for.

Dad says, oh no that girl wanted money, she wanted to blackmail him, he simply did not respond to her.
Er, yeah right daddy, it's all online, and exactly how it all played out is visible online (in original texts communicated between the 2) for anyone who cares to look.

Listen dad, can't ya stop making excuses for your failure of a son?
Your spineless, wicked offspring is a liar, and a convicted murderer.
Listen up again dad, isn't he taking it a bit far and aren't you too, by trying to have everyone believe the entire world is wrong when it comes to the truth about Meredith's murder? According to you, everyone else is wrong and everyone is bad and everyone is a liar, blackmailer, but you are the perfect family: even God would not dare walk on your magic carpets, your house must be absolutely chock-a-block with the things.

And on that subject, why not get Ed the Talking Horse to go to court next time and pretend it does not understand the difference between taking the stand and spontaneous statements.

Dad, listen again, stop being a dumpling, you are a doctor, surely you understand these Italian terms and concepts that even a bricklayer knows about without needing any training whatsoever.

Yes I think that horse may run a good race for you all.

Even if it dumps those horse dumplings all along the courtroom and the courthouse halls, it's going to smell better than you people and it may understand more too, it might say neigh neighhh neighhhhhhhhhhhhh, spontaneously perhaps but far more captivating than a man on trial for murder who sits there llike he is an actor in a mafia movie and like ain't they just sooooo lucky to be graced by my performance attendance presence in court.

Dammit, listen up again paaaaaa, how long can you go on making up ridiculous excuses, admit it, your son has damaged your name, the family name, irreparably.

If you were an honest man and acted like a man, you would see the truth, admit it, and realise it was not your fault.

However, doing what you do, shows that you may have formed part of the equation that led to your son growing up to be such an insufferable prick, and more than that, a most NASTY, CRUEL selfish little bastard.

Let's turn it into a competition then, which of the two 'kids' (read: murderers) is top dog, who is worse in this?

1) Knox accuses an innocent man of rape and murder
Subcontext: Leave him in prison 2 whole weeks long without lifting a finger or opening her cake hole to get him released!
Subsubcontext: She couldn't help it she was so confused, why, it was only two weeks before they'd starved her almost to death, poor thing, it is all the fault of the police, it's not her fault she left Patrick in prison while his business went to the dogs forever, but the prosecutor, Patrick himself, the police, everyone, including stray dogs and cats is to blame, not Knox, can't everyone see!!!! (no question mark)
Knox: Sorry Patrick
Patrick: Mmm, oh really, well pay me my money
Knox: Oh that, well I am sorry but not as sorry as all that, it was not my fault, you so do understand eh. I do, I forgive you.
Subsubsubcontext: I must make the family see, it's a long process, involves mostly me ignoring their explicit wishes. My FRIEND, my FWEND, my FWENDY FWEND, who I just happened to murder by sticking a knife through her neck, in one side and out the other. Nice people aren't they!!!! Telly folk, what will Knox start doing commercials next?

Meredith's friends hoped Meredith did not suffer, prayed she did not, were destroyed and inconsolable, what did Knox do in response, well her eyes remained as dry as Saharan sand while she cussssed at them, refused any embraces of comfort and screamed, She fucking bled to death.

That was oh so very kind and friendly of Knox an examply of how to show compassion. She fucking bled to death.

Thank you all of Meredith's friends must have said, thank you Detective Knox. You are so knowledgeable of this crime, in fact you must have had a crystal ball to know what you have said you know, as nobody could know it, nobody did except the killers, the police had to do tests and hear witnesses to realise that what you had been so kind to tell them, was in fact true, Meredith did scream, did bleed to death, Meredith wasn't with any black male but Knox was, it wasn't Patrick, oh no.


To conclude: This man Kerry, he never struck me as the brightest spark, but, can 1 (one) man determine what should be done?

I do not think so somehow, and if he bases anything he does do on what PR firm Gogerty-Marriot provides and does not listen to the Professor at Harvard, he will come unstuck when Sollecito starts shitting himself locked up in jail for 200-odd years, his so-called bravado and feats of heroism are bound to unwind, surely, so yeah, sure, right, just let Knox stay in Seattle and watch what Sollecito does within a two year timeframe of life spent in jail as a definitively convicted murderer.

Canary sing canary sing
Daddy's money can't freedom bring
Knox the writer, Knox on tour
Knox the lying little..........

angel?

By the way I cannot be bothered with the competition, no subtexts, contexts or anything for Sollecito, I'm sending him a file under a postage stamp, well, have to wait until he's locked up though.

What an idea that convicted killers are STILL on the loose, there's something all wrong there.


Sexy Sadie, you'll get yours yet.

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Welcome back Zorba . This next phase of the PR is hard to stomach Amanda's new serious look and Sollecito with Italy standing by him. Amanda posted a banner for Ryan Ferguson and hopes to tap into his votes. Amanda now tells us even if we don't believe her get involved with the bigger issue of false imprisonment. Reaching as far as she can to gather support against extradition. Liars who continue to lie. Do supporters believe Sollecito's new tale that he was in Austria to celebrate? Would anyone buy that he was so confidant . Didn't papa tell us he was too stressed and emotional to appear for the verdict? The contemptuous sneer that he wears on the above photos captures the arrogant fool .
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi MalV, thank you

OR, yes, and we know how that horse doo doo works, I hardly think everyone is behind Sollecito, I mean I was in Italy and everyone thought papa paid someone.

Now, as things are with Meredith's family, I for one wouldn't like to see them change, but since I am not them, I will say what they are far too polite to do and that is, me, I WILL rejoice the minute Sollecito gets placed in prison.

I don't know what's up with him, he did after all promise to hand himself in at the prison, how he could know which one to report to, is another part of his dreamland, his fantasy, the fallacy, still, we knew he never was going to do that, if he is he sure is taking his time, and why doesn't he start out in the north, or south, and visit each prison until he finds the one that's been expecting him. Do come in. Fine that you saved us the trouble of sending out a meat wagon, which suite would you like Sir, oh the one with a jacuzzi and a bunch of prostitutes. I'm afraid we have none of these things, so get over there and take off your shoes, you whining shite-wit.

Oh oh, they made me cast off my shoes, papa, papa, get them, get them papa, horrendous.

Hey, Mal, I'm beginning to think his dad is even worse than he is.
It sure does knock you back to see real doctors being so dishonest doesn't it.

A man who is supposed to save life helps someone who takes life.

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:

Giuseppe Castellini

Murder Meredith , a few questions to Raffaele Sollecito

Raffaele Sollecito , who was sentenced by the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence to 25 years for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher ( for the same offense was sentenced Amanda Knox and Rudy Guede is serving a prison sentence in the final 16 years ) , said that it has never been questioned in the classroom because no one has asked . It should be remembered , to complete the picture information , which Sollecito twice availed itself of the right to remain silent during the investigation, before the request of the prosecutor Mignini . And if it is true that the prosecution did not ask to question him in the courtroom in the various levels of courts, even he asked , merely to issue several times spontaneous declarations , without contradiction .

But that's not the point . As for the fact that , both as it may, Raffaele has never willing or able to answer questions from investigators. His reasons , of course, have brought forward in detail his lawyers . But it is not the same thing. For this important questions which remain suspended Raffaele did not respond directly contradictory with the prosecution. We try to riepilogarne some crucial . And who knows Raphael decides to respond in detail on these columns , though - at least at the moment - seems unlikely. We turn to him directly, in the certainty that we read .



1 .

The first time that you've been listening to the police station you said , November 1, 2007 , ( Meredith was killed in the night between 1 and 2 ) , after a tour of the center of Perugia (before you and Amanda were in the house were via della Pergola ) , you came home around 20, while Amanda you reached only much later, around 1 am , and then later change version and say that you had been together forever . The first statement appears as an outlet away from Amanda, who in those times you do not know what he did , while the second has a completely different flavor. Why have you changed radically version ?
2 .

It appears certain , from the experts (even if your the legal dispute ) that the computers in your home has been active for about a half hour , from 5:32 to just after 6 am on November 2. For the experts of the Police is certain that there has been human interaction. But you affirm that you slept with Amanda . Who was , therefore , to use the computer at this hour?
3 .

Your mobile phone and go out to Amanda at the same time , on the evening of November 1 , at around 20.40 , and come back on pretty much set shortly after the 6 of November 2 ( at that time you download the sms sent by your goodnight father the night before) . How do you explain that?
4 .

You say that the house on Via della Pergola were not there. But how is it possible that there is a hook on your DNA (17 loci in which it appears your genetic profile and the father of genetics Italian , Professor Bishops, with the current techniques are not only sufficient , but to give the strasufficienti ' identity of the DNA .) And because there are , as detected with luminol footprints compatible with your bare right , in addition to the one on the bath mat baby? ( the size of the big toe , for one thing , is like that of yours, while Rudy is much smaller ) .
5 .

Why , if it was just to kill Rudy , he just deleted his prints of bare feet , while leaving those in plain sight , but its always left with the left shoe in the hallway ? It is not enough to think that those who have washed their fingerprints have thought to erase his (in this case , those assigned to you and Amanda ), leaving intact those related to Rudy ?
6 .

You and Amanda having come from the homeless Antonio Curatolo the night of the murder at a late hour , and Amanda is seen from the merchants of food - who knew you well and that you had already seen with Amanda - come to about 7.45 in his shop and buy something, then ridirigersi towards Piazza Grimana . You and Amanda say that those hours you slept at your house. Is there something that can prove it and maybe that has so far escaped , which would provide the excuse that you lack?



GIORNALE UMBRIA

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, Cape, The clogged kitchen sink? Let the plumber fix that. You have to remove the u-bend tube, snake both ends. In my case, once, had to open up from all the way down in the basement, remove years of (other peoples :) gunk.

Hi, Jackie, not planning to live in Equador; I'm not trading my genteel Canadian neighbors for fleeing felons and murderous McAfees :)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Michael. I was just going to post Sallyoo's translation of the 6 questions when your post appeared.

Yea I know I'm late, but here it is anyway. H/t to Sallyoo of .org. Re-posting with thanks.

Post by Sallyoo » 09 Feb 2014, 15:31
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewto ... 69#p159769
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a piece by Castellini in the Giornale dell'Umbria today. In the introduction he covers the reasons why RS hasn't allowed himself to be cross examined in court, then he offers RS the opportunity to respond to six questions. So as to be fair to RS, as it were! Here is a quick paraphrased translation of the questions.

Murder Meredith, a few questions to Raffaele Sollecito

Question 1: In your first statement about your movements on 1 Nov you said that you had returned to your house at 20.00, but AK didn't return until 01.00. In your next statement you said you and AK were together all the time.
Why did you change you story so radically?

Question 2: The evidence points towards your computer being turned on by human interaction at 5.32 on 2 Nov (although your defence contest this). You maintain that you were asleep in bed with AK.
Who turned the computer on?

Question 3: You and AK simultaneously turned off your cellphones at 20.40 on 1 Nov, and turned them back on again at about 06.00 on 2 Nov.
How do you explain this?

Question 4: Your DNA is on the bra clasp, and there are your right bare footprints revealed by luminol in the Via della Pergola house aside from the bathmat footprint.
How did this evidence get there?

Question 5: Why, if RG was the only perpetrator, would he have cleaned up his right footprints and left his left shoe prints?
Isn't it more likely that those who did the clean up (you and AK) intended to remove your footprints and leave his?

Question 6: You and AK were seen late in the evening of 1 Nov by Curatolo, and AK was seen early in the morning by a shopkeeper, but you say you were both at home in bed for all of this period.
Is there anything you can say, perhaps something which until now you have forgotten, which can provide you with your missing alibi?

GIORNALE DELL'UMBRIA
------------------------------------------------------------

Is anyone in the mood to try to answer these questions for RS? We already know how he would answers some of them. Easy to guess. ;)

Question 4: Your DNA is on the bra clasp...
How did this evidence get there?

Answer (RS): "The DNA on the clasp is not mine, and we have already shown it. On the hook there are at least three profiles. If I had not been involved in the process, one of those DNA [profiles] would not have been attributed to me. "

Question 6: You and AK were seen late in the evening of 1 Nov by Curatolo, and AK was seen early in the morning by a shopkeeper, but you say you were both at home in bed for all of this period.
Is there anything you can say, perhaps something which until now you have forgotten, which can provide you with your missing alibi?

Answer (RS): "I do not know what happened that night and I said and repeated: completely alien to what happened to Meredith that evening, I was at my house and it is not my job to try to understand and find the truth."

Etc, etc
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, zorba, good to see you back, Congrats on your mum's 80th! Mine, bless her, is 81, good that she's still in reasonable good shape.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Zorba, dear!! Good to see you. Just back myself after 4 days of no electric. Can you say COLD? Thankfully holed up in a hotel with a crew of grandpuppies and an 88 year old father who spent most of his time reading all of the fixtures to see if they were "Made in America". They weren't. God help me.

It's going to take a bit of time to catch up here. I'll be back.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi Zorba :)

You were missed. Big time.

Ergon..Yes..a plunber. On a SUNDAY!! Have to love the U.S.A. It's a 24/7 Country. He's coming at 2.00 pm.

It makes me feel so sad for all the people who don't even have water..never mind on tap :( It's very, very humbling.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

'The general consensus is you are absolutely smoking hot': Adult entertainment company asks Amanda Knox to star in a PORN movie for $20,000 'to help cover her legal costs'

* Monarchy Distribution has a history of publicity stunts
* Last year the company offered shamed former PR executive Justine Sacco $10,00 to appear in a porn film
* The company claimed it was donating part of the proceeds from an adult film spoofing the Anthony Weiner downfall to the former candidate's campaign for mayor
* Knox was again found guilty of the 2007 murder of Meredith Kercher

By Daily Mail Reporter

PUBLISHED: 14:48, 9 February 2014 | UPDATED: 15:28, 9 February 2014



DAILY MAIL

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

OT.

I met Charlie Sheen yesterday. It was beyond bizarre. Crikey. What a hot mess. Being famous..or infamous...is a bitch. Lucky for Charlie, though. I don't think he'll remember the encounter. He was that far gone. :shock:

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
'The general consensus is you are absolutely smoking hot': Adult entertainment company asks Amanda Knox to star in a PORN movie for $20,000 'to help cover her legal costs'

* Monarchy Distribution has a history of publicity stunts
* Last year the company offered shamed former PR executive Justine Sacco $10,00 to appear in a porn film
* The company claimed it was donating part of the proceeds from an adult film spoofing the Anthony Weiner downfall to the former candidate's campaign for mayor
* Knox was again found guilty of the 2007 murder of Meredith Kercher

By Daily Mail Reporter

PUBLISHED: 14:48, 9 February 2014 | UPDATED: 15:28, 9 February 2014



DAILY MAIL


That's fantastic! Casey Anthony was similarly insulted when she got away with murder. Women like that deserve to be treated so disgracefully that they are told straight up that their only option is to take it all off and perform pornographically for disgusting, lecherous old men that have no concept of women as human.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, zorba, good to see you back, Congrats on your mum's 80th! Mine, bless her, is 81, good that she's still in reasonable good shape.


Thank you Ergon.

It was amazing to see family I'd not seem in 30 and 40 years.
Have a very large family, mother came out of a family that had about 12 to 15 kids, I can't remember exactly a few died, like one or two as kids, one in the war, etc, and I still couldn't get all of their names right.
Glad to hear your mother is in reasonably good shape, mine is too but getting a bit forgetful, still drives though, I've been cooking every day, as she started eating really simple food like not proper meals with vegetables and so, more like pies, biscuits, cakes, potato chips (crisps), chocolate.
But even me, I don't stand about hours in the kitchen when I'm alone, I eat proper meals but hardly going to spend hours.
My mother was always doing ofr others and I have that too, I like looking after others (as well as myself mind you).

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Zorba..It must have been so wonderful to be with the family. I went to Seattle for My Mum's Birthday. 90 years old..and sharp as a tack. I have a good memory ( sometimes wish I didn't :)

My Mum has been a vegetarian for 50 years or so...and so eats very healthy. How super that your Mum had someone taking care of her. She must bless you. I love to cook..but especially for others. For myself...I do cook..but am very happy with a cheese ( sharp) ( cheddar) and tomato sandwich.

Sushi is my weakness. I'm addicted.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
Zorba..It must have been so wonderful to be with the family. I went to Seattle for My Mum's Birthday. 90 years old..and sharp as a tack. I have a good memory ( sometimes wish I didn't :)

My Mum has been a vegetarian for 50 years or so...and so eats very healthy. How super that your Mum had someone taking care of her. She must bless you. I love to cook..but especially for others. For myself...I do cook..but am very happy with a cheese ( sharp) ( cheddar) and tomato sandwich.

Sushi is my weakness. I'm addicted.



capealadin wrote:
Hi Zorba :)

You were missed. Big time.

Ergon..Yes..a plunber. On a SUNDAY!! Have to love the U.S.A. It's a 24/7 Country. He's coming at 2.00 pm.

It makes me feel so sad for all the people who don't even have water..never mind on tap :( It's very, very humbling.


1) Hi Cape,
That's lovely, your mother that age and sharp, my aunt you see, my mothers older sister, one of them, ended up with dementia, and went into a home as was unmanageable.
If my mother goes out of her own home, I don't think it'll be good for her. Her twin brother died within about 3 months this last summer, and she has been spending a lot of time on her own, I don't think that's good for her, as she just goes into her own world so I am looking at how I can be here a lot more.

I've been buying organic things here, and getting her to eat vegetables. I make her fruit salad every morning, it's quite funny as she always was a character, she says, what' this now, don't give me any of that, then inspects it, and east it and ends up saying how nice it was. When I am cooking she suddenly starts messing me about, like turning stuff up and down and generally taking over, back into cooking mode, but she hasn't been cooking, been using the microwave, etc, and the oven but she did this stuff 15 and 20 years ago, walk up behind me and frighten me while I was busy, ''mind you don't cut yourself'', but the way she'd do that, would more likely lead to me actually cutting myself, while, all the while I'm telling her mum, I've been a trained chef for the past 15 years, etc, now too, mum, I'm a trained chef, I do know what I'm doing. I started eating veggie food again at home but since I've been here it's a little hard, but I do not eat battery farmed eggs or chicken, and try to fin stuff that's organic for a payable price. I have been explaining this stuff to my mother for 40 years, and all as she ever says is, oh well, we don't have all of that stuff over here. Ha ha, but they, whoever they or we is, do have it here, as the shops are full of it.

I am sure a good diet is important, especially for her now. It's logical a body and its organs needs minerals, vitamins, etc.

I do like cooking and got onto a real good trip again by making stuff I used to make like chick peas with potato and carrot, type of stew but I don't like the word stew a lot, I do this with so many things, every bean type. I started using paprika paste too, it's so good, as is tomato puree in certain things if you prepare properly which means gently sautee in an oil or butter, let it go orange a develop a pleasant smell then add the other things, but the puree would be added to something like fried onions, it is to deacidify the puree.
I even got my mother to eat these things, because I used orange split lentils, or Masoer dal, used in Indian dal, it's the basic one, and it dissolves so you cannot see it, everythin my mother does'nt know, she says, yuk what's that.





2 Hi Capealadin,

Nice to see you here too.

If the swan's neck under the sink has an unscrewable part at the bottom, you can unscrew it carefully over a bucket, to catch what comes out, you can unscrew it just a bit to control what comes out, that way, if a bucket were to fill up completely, the screw cap is still attached and you can screw it back, so don't take that cap right off or you will not get it back on easily with water flooding out in a rage, there is usually a rubber ring inside the cap, so be careful not to lose that and when you remove the cap completely, you can then, with cap removed, try to get out anything that is stuck in that part (swan's neck) out, usually it will be there, unless you have been sticking weird stuff sown there like shaving caps (plastic tops on throwaways) spaghetti, candle wax, condoms, sanitary towels, now I don't see you having done that, not all of them, but ordinary stuff like tea leaves, spaghetti, wax, fat can block a sink, and shaving caps, well I doubt anyone is shaving in the kitchen sink and if anyone in your house did, they need hanging upside down by the heels in your yard if you have one. I doubt you cook and fry in lard, so that will not be it. You can leave the screw cap off and pour hot water through, to see how it runs, if at all.

Caustic soda is what you probably need, because that does more than hot water alone, it burns through trash without dissolving the pipes. It is dangerous stuff, don't breathe it in, don't get it onto the skin so place it over plug hole, pour boiling hot water onto it carefully, at arm's length, slowly.

Then there are special metal, flexible rod-like things available to poke through around bends.

If there is a store open, you could get the soda. Whisky and soda won't do it, but it might relax your head.
I'm afraid I'm too far away to do it for you, I'll cost 500 dollars an hour.
If the plumber is going to cost you a packet better to buy two bottles of soda.
Good luck

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

By the way peoploids, I have never eaten Sushi, yet

guess I'm not with it these days eh

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Graham W. Phillips wrote the first part of a series of three articles.

The first part can be found here: I tried to interview Amanda Knox - Part 1

For newcomers and those who come back from a long break, see his blog article with questions for Knox he sent to David Marriot for approval. Brit In Ukraine - Amanda Knox - 16 Exclusive Interview Questions.

According to Graham Phillips, David Marriott found the questions to be unfair and he ended the communication after exchanging a few emails in which they apparently discussed what would be allowed and what not. They could not find common ground.

Graham Phillips promised an article based on his exchange with David Marriott and he just tweeted the link to the first part.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Zorba..you are too funny:) I'm reading the plumber how to. OMG...you're a whiz at a lot of things. Umm...the plumber is going to charge an arm and a leg...( it's Sunday)..and at this stage..I don't care. It's amazing how it turns one's life upside down.

You sound like an amazing chef. Everything you said sounds so yummy. And..I LOVE Indian food. Greek as well.

Your Mum sounds lovely.

The plumber is here. I have yet to here what the problem is. Aaargh.And, I just had new sinks put in last year with marble countertops. Damnit.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Graham W. Phillips wrote the first part of a series of three articles.

The first part can be found here: I tried to interview Amanda Knox - Part 1

For newcomers and those who come back from a long break, see his blog article with questions for Knox he sent to David Marriot for approval. Brit In Ukraine - Amanda Knox - 16 Exclusive Interview Questions.

According to Graham Phillips, David Marriott found the questions to be unfair and he ended the communication after exchanging a few emails in which they apparently discussed what would be allowed and what not. They could not find common ground.

Graham Phillips promised an article based on his exchange with David Marriott and he just tweeted the link to the first part.


I tried before to look at what he is about.

I rad a few of his things, what I noticed is there is an awful lot about sex in some way, now reading what yo wrote I looked, but now I got even more disturbed to see he posted a woman's full name who explained to him she'd had a lot of trouble, woth people who published her private things, maybe tricked her into doing something she didn't understand properly, and then this guy, when she freaked out, gets upset and so uses that, her not keeping her word, her getting scared, as an excuse to publish her full name anyhow.

But then I haven't ever suffered fools, not anywhere and not in this, I never watched all of those videos with the killers, their families, I could only take about half a minute of each, I mean I do not want to go out murdering, watching them makes me very angry. I'm way too sensitive.

So what is this guy up to, he has columns all to do with sex in some way, Knox placed under one, so no, I think he's creepy and if he isn't, I think he's unkind to do that to he woman, who knows what trouble it caused her, I mean before him, and them him ignoring her pleas.

To me tha'ts really abusive.


Don't like him.

Do not need him or in fact anyone to know Marriot is an asshole.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sorry...everyone. I'm sure NO-ONE cares about plumbing:) I won't type another word..except to say thanks to Zorba.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
Zorba..you are too funny:) I'm reading the plumber how to. OMG...you're a whiz at a lot of things. Umm...the plumber is going to charge an arm and a leg...( it's Sunday)..and at this stage..I don't care. It's amazing how it turns one's life upside down.

You sound like an amazing chef. Everything you said sounds so yummy. And..I LOVE Indian food. Greek as well.

Your Mum sounds lovely.

The plumber is here. I have yet to here what the problem is. Aaargh.And, I just had new sinks put in last year with marble countertops. Damnit.



Oh he's there already, yes the time difference, was thinking you meant tomorrow Monday before anyone could come out.
Ha ha, read up on my thing fast, bung on your dirty overalls and walk in there and say yeah, you probably needed to bung some claustic soda down there didn't ya mate, or buddy, whatever everyone says there, Yeah I was clean out and it's Sunday, I usually buy a bottle or two for emergencies, 2.50 dollars a quart/gallon/liter,

whatever, sounds convincing, so he thinks you weren't in too much trouble and that you are basically a plumber too, a builder, engineer.. but don't have a daughter or someone right in the middle of the deal saying thank God you showed up we were... Ouch, that's the sound of you kicking shins when nobosy sees shuuuush.

Hey anyway, Cape, for a next time, the PVC piping is very cheap, you use special PVC glue, and you can get all kinds of fittings, like the knees or corner bits to attach lengths of pipe together, you can saw that stuff with an iron saw, a small one you know. You clean the ends after sawing, and only ever put glue when you are ready, when you have measured and tried everything out and know the order you'll be working in, because once you glue and push together the bits, you can never get them loose again, not even after about 1 second. So you always try it all out to see before your very eyes how it will work, sometimes you can end up in a puzzle you hadn't seen, when at the last bit, you have no space to fix the last bit but basically it is kid's play, use enough glue, not too much. It'll save you a fortune. Now a WC that's a different kettle of fish, people who fix that deserve every penny.


Let us know what happens.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
Sorry...everyone. I'm sure NO-ONE cares about plumbing:) I won't type another word..except to say thanks to Zorba.



Don't be daft!!
Normal life is good.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
Sorry...everyone. I'm sure NO-ONE cares about plumbing:) I won't type another word..except to say thanks to Zorba.


I'm enjoying the plumbing discussion - learning something too.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ZORBA!! Are you pulling my leg???? Sawing!!!!..pipes.....My good man.....Not in my world. I'm exhausted just from having to suck up the water on the floor!!

Plumber gone. Fixed in 10 minutes. Ummm..apparantly..espresso grounds. FFS. Yes..I love my espresso's...and I do empty most of the grounds in the bin..but some do go down the drain. Who freaking knew?

The most expensive coffee I've ever had. But..I'm happy now. Thanks..m'love :)

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Welcome back Zorba . This next phase of the PR is hard to stomach Amanda's new serious look and Sollecito with Italy standing by him. Amanda posted a banner for Ryan Ferguson and hopes to tap into his votes. Amanda now tells us even if we don't believe her get involved with the bigger issue of false imprisonment. Reaching as far as she can to gather support against extradition. Liars who continue to lie. Do supporters believe Sollecito's new tale that he was in Austria to celebrate? Would anyone buy that he was so confidant . Didn't papa tell us he was too stressed and emotional to appear for the verdict? The contemptuous sneer that he wears on the above photos captures the arrogant fool .


I wish someone would tell Ryan Ferguson that, in terms of comparing his situation to that of Amanda Knox, he has the role of Patrick Lumumba, not Knox. Ryan's friend accused him, and Patrick's employee accused him. Ryan was unjustly arrested, as was Patrick. In the US, investigators were sloppy and left Ryan in prison for 10 years. In Italy investigators were not sloppy and corrected the situation in two weeks.

Ryan is making a huge error in judgement in aligning himself with the party that laid the false accusation.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
ZORBA!! Are you pulling my leg???? Sawing!!!!..pipes.....My good man.....Not in my world. I'm exhausted just from having to suck up the water on the floor!!

Plumber gone. Fixed in 10 minutes. Ummm..apparantly..espresso grounds. FFS. Yes..I love my espresso's...and I do empty most of the grounds in the bin..but some do go down the drain. Who freaking knew?

The most expensive coffee I've ever had. But..I'm happy now. Thanks..m'love :)


Ha ha no, those pipes are really easy to saw through, but you'd need to see someone working with them to get it, least that's how I learn. Water on floor, oh I didn't realise it was pretty bad then.

Coffee, that's possible but coffee can act as a cleaner, as it is coarse, but if not enough water is used, regularly to flush the grounds down and away they could compress, which must have happened with you but unless one is really careful there is always a piece of potato peel, a pea, a few grains of rice, etc, at any given time on their way out, they help stuff like coffee or tea leaves, get caught up.

Anyhow, enjoy the running water, I really appreciate a thing when having done without it for a while, and realising what having it means.

Tar ra

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So right, Ergon. I do think that Ryan is swept away with Media spin..and fellow American next door types.

News Flash. Young, attractive people kill.

I remember telling my 4 year old about strangers.I went further. I asked * And what do strangers look like?

He answered quickly: They wear hats. huh-)

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Zorba...The plumber told me that coffee grounds are a no no. Yes..and rice. I will say..though..that your method sounds..very MANLY :)..

As a female..I'm just for loving the guy..thanking him..and cooking him a nice meal. :)

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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I think you meant Jester, re Ryan Ferguson, capealadin.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Oh..sorry. Blame it on age :)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I was thinking on this yesterday. How are the conversations between Knox and Raffles? They both know what they did. I imagine they don't want to communicate. At all. Forget the media spon. Forget how they have fooled ( insert ...family denial)..people. Oh..and the very weird..sick supporters. ( I want to add something now)......IF I was a suporter..I would have to change to the Guilters. There is NO WAY I could converse, associate with those weirdo's.

So..what do they say to each other? I have been complicit in confidences with loved ones. We just don't talk about it.

It's a done deal. They know my lips are sealed. No wonder Knox and Raffles hardly communicate. Out of sight( hearing) out of mind. Sure..they can mime false platitudes..but they know the deal. They know what happened. Are they in denial? Absolutely. AS FAR as they have to. But between them ? How uncomfortable. Better to just not talk to your conspirator. It just reminds them what a terrible thing they did.

I have been thinking about it a great deal. The fact that they hardly talk to each other says much. They must be aware..at the few times they communicate..what shams they are living. Are saying. And..both know it. It is built on such a false premise. Raff is now ready to cut all ties. Knox...pretty worried, I imagine.

Raff is a weakling. It won't take much for him to throw her under the bus. One week together. One unforgiveable act. Now..a lifetime to regret. For what? hump-) and.. c-))

Raff is beginning to realize that the worst thing that ever happened to him..was going to that concert.

And Meredith? Poor Darling. She could never imagine who lived in the next room. RIP..at least we can hope for Justice for you r-((

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
OT.

I met Charlie Sheen yesterday. It was beyond bizarre. Crikey. What a hot mess. Being famous..or infamous...is a bitch. Lucky for Charlie, though. I don't think he'll remember the encounter. He was that far gone. :shock:


I think Charlie Sheen is one of the coolest train-wrecks/ playboys left (in my next life I want to BE Charlie Sheen), but now that he's hitting on you... nnn-))

I don't think you should have shared this, Cape! Now I'm jealous of the original, tiger-blooded "Machine" and the JLOL's Rolfe has yet another reason to be envious of you ;-)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

LOL..LOL..LOL...Jackie. I will say this. Chahlie was not cool. Ugh. Train wreck? He was unbelievable. And..I couldn't lose him. ( I think it was the accent)..and I was so gracious.I pretended I didn't know him. That really made him ..well.

Eventually...he collapsed in to one of World Market's chairs. Maybe I would have been flattered if he had been..somewhat normal. As it was...he was very interested.I think it was 2.00 am for him.Looking through the bottom of a beer bottle.LOL.

Now.Machine and Rolfe. I will say Machine really piqued my interest.It was because of him that I'm here. Jlol's Rolfe. OK. Now I really collapse in to giggles.

Nope. It's you, me Darling. Although.........( thinking here.......DG is very, very special.......

And Michael. I think about how he would be amazing. I could be a computer whiz. ( winking here,Michael)....

There are a couple of other friends here. They are however..female. Love them..but they're not in my * fantasy * day dreams...

Jackie...I just adore you. It's been so long since that first post of yours on Jlol. OMG.How I laughed. I said to myself..

There's the one. Clever, funny, and so freaking on point. And..then I came to PMF. And Michael was so kind and patient to me. I had never blogged...and I just adored him as well.

Jackie...It's a good thing you're so happily married. I think I could have been a stalker otherwise.LOLOLOLLOLOOLLOOL

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

As for that Rolfe, Jackie. How DARE you.!! Freaking hate that bitch. I did shut her up,though :)

Ahh. JLOL. It was so fun..especially as we had * Falconelli*............

And..btw..how much do you want to laugh at how serious Machine is? He would reprimand me..via email. I felt like I was back with the nuns at Boarding school :) Yes...I was at Loretto convent. For awhile, Took me 2 Loooong years to get expelled. :)

:mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

More of the same:

Murder of Meredith, Raffaele Sollecito on Lucignolo 2.0: " Everyone told me that if I got a kick at Amanda, I'd be out of this story"
Written by Fabio Morasca

Raffaele Sollecito, the 30 (sic) year old sentenced to 25 years in prison for the murder of student Meredith Kercher by the Assize Court of Appeal of Florence, was interviewed by the program Lucignolo 2.0 on Italia1.

Attachment:
raffaele-sollecito-lucignolo 9 feb 2014.jpg


Sollecito has shared his mood after the ruling that, in fact, has overturned the acquittal on appeal. The young man originally from Giovinazzo near Bari, obviously has voiced his fears about the future :

I have a great desire , an immense desire to return to that which is my life. I just do not even know if I'll ever be given this opportunity. You do not know what will happen tomorrow, do not know if it makes sense to talk about tomorrow because it is as if your life is no longer yours, it is of those who look at you and judge you without knowing anything about you . I don't even have the strength to think about the future , I have nothing that could bring me to make plans for something that goes beyond a week.

Sollecito has also analyzed the way in which this crime case has been treated by the media :

This story was a kind of explosive mixture between a bloody crime with a horrible death and falling in love , transformed by the media into a love story between two beautiful young people, a young man , an Italian, and a foreign girl. It was built in the middle of a fairy tale that ended in a horror.

This, however, was his reaction after the judgment of the Court of Assizes in Florence :

I was convinced that I would be acquitted by a judgment of acquittal. But no . For me it was a shock , a trauma. I don't even have my passport and identity card any more. They took away everything they could, leaving me in this drama .

The DNA on the bra clasp and the other traces on the knife were absolutely unreliable. The idea that I would have killed for solidarity with Amanda or just to do something because we were bored , is absurd , it makes no sense . It's just a piece placed there to reach an objective : to accuse you and tell you, you are guilty of something you did not do . I had no reason to participate in a crime so heinous and ugly against a 20 year old girl who I did not even know! I was happy , I was living a quiet life : I had my studies , I was preparing for my graduation . It was a beautiful moment : I was rediscovering the excitement of falling in love with Amanda .

Sollecito, finally, has also revealed another detail about the process and its relationship with Amanda Knox :

I have often heard it said by everyone, including the judges , that if I got a kick at Amanda , I would be released immediately from this story. "You were supposed to kick , pull out and continue to live in peace, as well." But how could I behave that way with a 20 year old girl that hadn't done anything to me? With what courage and conscience could I kick her and leave her in this mess ?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Well, Yeah, Raff. Why would you..now in the cold light of day?? Where and what were you that night??

You were enthralled. You were in lust. You were a fucked up Harry Potter look alike. You were enamoured with anime.

Who were you..when abusing a friend with a turnip??

You took part in a murder. For whatever reason..however much you now think..FOR WHAT??

For shagging. For indulging a revengeful woman, Live with it. Ahh. You've said..you didn't trust her. Huh. Pay for what you did. And STFU already.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sorry, folks. Just a bit sick and tired of the * oh poor me * bullshit.

Now you have a glimmer of understanding of why I was expelled from3 schools (or as my MUM explained...I wasn' invited back :)

And why I would never have been in any professional capacity. I just cannot stand bullshit. I can take critism..I'll own it.

But..don't take me for a fool. Strangely enough..I'm ultra forgiving. ( Lord knows..I've had to forgive myself many times :)

But...FFS......ENOUGH. Raff..I want them tolock you up, throw away the key...or...strangle you with your Armani scarf.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

English translation of Quintavalle's testimony on the Wiki website:

TMOMK WIKI
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
LOL..LOL..LOL...Jackie. I will say this. Chahlie was not cool. Ugh. Train wreck? He was unbelievable. And..I couldn't lose him. ( I think it was the accent)..and I was so gracious.I pretended I didn't know him. That really made him ..well.

Eventually...he collapsed in to one of World Market's chairs. Maybe I would have been flattered if he had been..somewhat normal. As it was...he was very interested.I think it was 2.00 am for him.Looking through the bottom of a beer bottle.LOL.


Do you think Charlie would go for this one?

http://www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk/ne ... -1-3073064


She has real inner beauty - just look at her empathize with the Kerchers as they face a nightmare beyond imagination:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
Sorry, folks. Just a bit sick and tired of the * oh poor me * bullshit.


Me too, Cape!

I finally gave up all hope the moment RS looked right into the camera on AC360 and, with a perfectly straight face, lied to you, me and the rest of the English-speaking world by claiming that he didn't face cross-examination because 'no one asked him to', as if he did not elect to exercise his right to remain silent under Article 6 of the ECHR.

Any Groupie with at least half a brain in their head would pause right there.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A 'piece of fiction' by another 'creative writer' ;)

Amanda Knox, what really happened: Writing toward the actual story
By Katie Crouch
Sunday, Feb 9, 2014 07:00 AM EST

SALON
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Zorba: Posted on request from Jester (Jester it was in the tabloid called Sunday Mirror/Daily Mirror)




Will Savive: The following is a repost of the interview that British Sunday Times journalist, Kate Mansey, did with Raffaele Sollecito (RS) on November 3, 2007 (Two days after Meredith Kercher was murdered), and was published November 4, 2007. Within, Sollecito claims that he and Amanda Knox were at “a party with one of his friends” on the night that Kercher was murdered. Obviously Sollecito has never used this [fake] alibi in any other tale that he has told, nor has he ever addressed this [false] claim. The following article was available on the internet for a couple of years, but has since been removed. Yet, unfortunately for Sollecito; it has not been forgotten.



Bold: RS’s own words according to Kate Mansey.
Underlined: untrue, contradictory (compared to other versions) as well as revealing details that should be examined further.


Published in the Sunday Mirror 4/11/2007

ITALY MURDER DETAILS EMERGE
EXCLUSIVE
MURDERED IN ITALY. MEREDITH, 21
Friend tells how he broke down door
Kate Mansey In Perugia, Italy 4/11/2007

A friend of murdered British student Meredith Kercher told last night how he discovered her body in her blood-spattered bedroom.


Raffaele Sollecito, 23, relived the horror of finding the body of the pretty brunette who died when her killer broke into her home and cut her throat as she lay in her bed.

"It is something I never hope to see again," he said. "There was blood everywhere and I couldn't take it all in.


"My girlfriend was her flatmate and she was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'"


Meredith, 21, who had been studying in Perugia, Italy since August, was murdered the day after a Halloween fancy dress party at the city's British-themed Merlin Pub on Wednesday.
On Thursday she posted happy snaps of herself in fancy dress on the internet and in the evening had returned home alone after watching a film at a friend's house.


But her flatmates - two Italian girls and one American - had all stayed out for the night, so the gruesome discovery wasn't made until the next day.


Raffaele had spent the night at his own house on the other side of the city with his girlfriend, Meredith's American flatmate Amanda Knox, 22.


He said: "It was a normal night. Meredith had gone out with one of her English friends and Amanda and I went to party with one of my friends.


"The next day, around lunchtime, Amanda went back to their apartment to have a shower."


As Amanda, from Washington DC, stepped into house [sic B] she could tell there was something terribly wrong.


Raffaele said: "When she arrived the front door was wide open. She thought it was weird, but thought maybe someone was in the house and had left it ajar.


"But when she went into the bathroom she saw spots of blood all over the bath and sink. That's when she started getting really afraid and ran back to my place because she didn't want to go into the house alone. So I agreed to go back with her. When we walked in together, I knew straight away it was wrong. It was really eerily silent and the bathroom was speckled with blood like someone had flicked it around, just little spots.


"We went into the bedroom of Philomena (another flatmate who was away) and it had been ransacked, like someone had been looking for something. But when we tried Meredith's room, the door was locked. She never normally locked her bedroom door and that really made us frightened."


Their panic grew as they desperately banged on her door.


Raffaele said: "I tried to knock it down. I thought maybe she was ill... I made a dent, but I wasn't strong enough on my own so I called the police."


When police arrived they knocked the door down straightaway and Raffaele followed them into the room.


"I couldn't believe what I was seeing," he said. "It was hard to tell it was Meredith at first but Amanda started crying and screaming. I dragged her away because I didn't want her to see it, it was so horrible.


"It seems her killer came through the window because it was smashed and there was glass all over the place. It was so sinister because other parts of the house were just as normal."
Raffaele, a computer science student, said Meredith had recently started seeing an Italian neighbour called Giacamo [sic B] who lived in the apartment beneath the girls. He said: "Meredith was always smiling and happy. She was really popular and it's horrible that someone would want to hurt her."


Police hunting for the killer found two mobile phones in nearby Parco Saint Angelo, a favourite hang out for heroin addicts.






Posted by Will Savive at 4:10 PM

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Zorba, dear!! Good to see you. Just back myself after 4 days of no electric. Can you say COLD? Thankfully holed up in a hotel with a crew of grandpuppies and an 88 year old father who spent most of his time reading all of the fixtures to see if they were "Made in America". They weren't. God help me.

It's going to take a bit of time to catch up here. I'll be back.



Wow, can't imagine having no heating, I know it has been extremely cold in some parts of America, record lows, etc.
I won't start on about the weather in Britain, it reminds me of news on Bangladesh!!!

Do keep writing when you find the time, and tell dad to behave. I for one, really appreciate your posts.

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:

... ...
"My girlfriend was her flatmate and she was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'"

... ...


It was a forecast. NOW she will be crying and screaming.

Unfortunately the kid will not be there to console her.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
zorba wrote:

... ...
"My girlfriend was her flatmate and she was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'"

... ...


It was a forecast. NOW she will be crying and screaming.

Unfortunately the kid will not be there to console her.



Knox only started crying 5 or 6 years later or whenever a photo opportunity popped up so she could use it for her own benefit, crying for herself about herself, NEVER for Meredith, Patrick, Meredith's family and not for Sollecito either.

It was Meredith who screamed, not Knox.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
chami wrote:
zorba wrote:

... ...
"My girlfriend was her flatmate and she was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'"

... ...


It was a forecast. NOW she will be crying and screaming.

Unfortunately the kid will not be there to console her.



Knox only started crying 5 or 6 years later or whenever a photo opportunity popped up so she could use it for her own benefit, crying for herself about herself, NEVER for Meredith, Patrick, Meredith's family and not for Sollecito either.

It was Meredith who screamed, not Knox.


If you replace a word here & there, this line from Sollecito, uttered right after the murder, shows he had certain things/events in mind, he switched a name a place a time in everything he said, as did Knox.


Which of the following seems like it could be the real version, 1 or 2?

1) Sollecito said: My girlfriend was her flatmate and she was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'

2) Zorba said: Meredith was my girlfriend's flatmate, Meredith was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Article Mansey:

When police arrived they knocked the door down straightaway and Raffaele followed them into the room.


Sollecito: "I couldn't believe what I was seeing," he said. "It was hard to tell it was Meredith at first but Amanda started crying and screaming. I dragged her away because I didn't want her to see it, it was so horrible.


Why the hell wasn't Mansey asked/required/obliged to testify?

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
If you replace a word here & there, this line from Sollecito, uttered right after the murder, shows he had certain things/events in mind, he switched a name a place a time in everything he said, as did Knox.


Which of the following seems like it could be the real version, 1 or 2?

1) Sollecito said: My girlfriend was her flatmate and she was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'

2) Zorba said: Meredith was my girlfriend's flatmate, Meredith was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'


Let me try. Zorba uses the victim's proper name twice while Sollecito uses the victim's name once in possessive case.

The hatred makes it difficult for the criminals to pronounce the victim's proper name.

Did you notice how infrequently Amanda uses the proper noun "Meredith"?

Sollecito said what Sollecito could.

Fear and danger makes a man brave. Meredith was not crying - that is what I think. Zorba's version is unreal.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
zorba wrote:
If you replace a word here & there, this line from Sollecito, uttered right after the murder, shows he had certain things/events in mind, he switched a name a place a time in everything he said, as did Knox.


Which of the following seems like it could be the real version, 1 or 2?

1) Sollecito said: My girlfriend was her flatmate and she was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'

2) Zorba said: Meredith was my girlfriend's flatmate, Meredith was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'


Let me try. Zorba uses the victim's proper name twice while Sollecito uses the victim's name once in possessive case.

The hatred makes it difficult for the criminals to pronounce the victim's proper name.

Did you notice how infrequently Amanda uses the proper noun "Meredith"?

Sollecito said what Sollecito could.

Fear and danger makes a man brave. Meredith was not crying - that is what I think. Zorba's version is unreal.



Chami you are a very brave man/woman, one who upon having your throat sliced up, wouldn't cry.

I think it is so stupid what you wrote in reply. And it doesn't even matter, but Sollecito's lies DO matter, very much indeed.


Get real.

I do not know which language you are using Chami, but Sollecito did not use Meredith's name once and in fact, what I wrote has absolutely nothing to do with any of that.
It has to do with people making up stories, based on what actually, probably happened.

You simply did not get it at all.

Meredith IS the victim, that is what it is about.
If you so not think Meredith was likely to have said anything at all like this, I wonder how your mind works, what I have written is obviously not supposed to be exact words she said but the type of things she probably may have said in desperation whilst being attacked by three individuals and murdered.


Meredith, by the way, was female.


Please note: It is bad manners to write about someone in response to what they wrote as if that person is not around, as you do, speaking about me in the 3rd person.

Like this: Chami does not understand English.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
LOL..LOL..LOL...Jackie. I will say this. Chahlie was not cool. Ugh. Train wreck? He was unbelievable. And..I couldn't lose him. ( I think it was the accent)..and I was so gracious.I pretended I didn't know him. That really made him ..well.

Eventually...he collapsed in to one of World Market's chairs. Maybe I would have been flattered if he had been..somewhat normal. As it was...he was very interested.I think it was 2.00 am for him.Looking through the bottom of a beer bottle.LOL.


Do you think Charlie would go for this one?

http://www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk/ne ... -1-3073064


Heheh.


She has real inner beauty - just look at her empathize with the Kerchers as they face a nightmare beyond imagination:

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Zorba: Posted on request from Jester (Jester it was in the tabloid called Sunday Mirror/Daily Mirror)




Will Savive: The following is a repost of the interview that British Sunday Times journalist, Kate Mansey, did with Raffaele Sollecito (RS) on November 3, 2007 (Two days after Meredith Kercher was murdered), and was published November 4, 2007. Within, Sollecito claims that he and Amanda Knox were at “a party with one of his friends” on the night that Kercher was murdered. Obviously Sollecito has never used this [fake] alibi in any other tale that he has told, nor has he ever addressed this [false] claim. The following article was available on the internet for a couple of years, but has since been removed. Yet, unfortunately for Sollecito; it has not been forgotten.



Bold: RS’s own words according to Kate Mansey.
Underlined: untrue, contradictory (compared to other versions) as well as revealing details that should be examined further.


Published in the Sunday Mirror 4/11/2007

ITALY MURDER DETAILS EMERGE
EXCLUSIVE
MURDERED IN ITALY. MEREDITH, 21
Friend tells how he broke down door
Kate Mansey In Perugia, Italy 4/11/2007

A friend of murdered British student Meredith Kercher told last night how he discovered her body in her blood-spattered bedroom.


Raffaele Sollecito, 23, relived the horror of finding the body of the pretty brunette who died when her killer broke into her home and cut her throat as she lay in her bed.

"It is something I never hope to see again," he said. "There was blood everywhere and I couldn't take it all in.


"My girlfriend was her flatmate and she was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'"


Meredith, 21, who had been studying in Perugia, Italy since August, was murdered the day after a Halloween fancy dress party at the city's British-themed Merlin Pub on Wednesday.
On Thursday she posted happy snaps of herself in fancy dress on the internet and in the evening had returned home alone after watching a film at a friend's house.


But her flatmates - two Italian girls and one American - had all stayed out for the night, so the gruesome discovery wasn't made until the next day.


Raffaele had spent the night at his own house on the other side of the city with his girlfriend, Meredith's American flatmate Amanda Knox, 22.


He said: "It was a normal night. Meredith had gone out with one of her English friends and Amanda and I went to party with one of my friends.


"The next day, around lunchtime, Amanda went back to their apartment to have a shower."


As Amanda, from Washington DC, stepped into house [sic B] she could tell there was something terribly wrong.


Raffaele said: "When she arrived the front door was wide open. She thought it was weird, but thought maybe someone was in the house and had left it ajar.


"But when she went into the bathroom she saw spots of blood all over the bath and sink. That's when she started getting really afraid and ran back to my place because she didn't want to go into the house alone. So I agreed to go back with her. When we walked in together, I knew straight away it was wrong. It was really eerily silent and the bathroom was speckled with blood like someone had flicked it around, just little spots.


"We went into the bedroom of Philomena (another flatmate who was away) and it had been ransacked, like someone had been looking for something. But when we tried Meredith's room, the door was locked. She never normally locked her bedroom door and that really made us frightened."


Their panic grew as they desperately banged on her door.


Raffaele said: "I tried to knock it down. I thought maybe she was ill... I made a dent, but I wasn't strong enough on my own so I called the police."


When police arrived they knocked the door down straightaway and Raffaele followed them into the room.


"I couldn't believe what I was seeing," he said. "It was hard to tell it was Meredith at first but Amanda started crying and screaming. I dragged her away because I didn't want her to see it, it was so horrible.


"It seems her killer came through the window because it was smashed and there was glass all over the place. It was so sinister because other parts of the house were just as normal."
Raffaele, a computer science student, said Meredith had recently started seeing an Italian neighbour called Giacamo [sic B] who lived in the apartment beneath the girls. He said: "Meredith was always smiling and happy. She was really popular and it's horrible that someone would want to hurt her."


Police hunting for the killer found two mobile phones in nearby Parco Saint Angelo, a favourite hang out for heroin addicts.






Posted by Will Savive at 4:10 PM


Wow Zorba.....

That was just packed with lies by Raffles. Unbelievable. He should be asked about that article when being interviewed.

Naps..how awful for you. My plumbing problem was small in comparison. Weather in LA is hot. 82 degrees this week. ( sorry :)

Your Dad sounds like such a character.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
LOL..LOL..LOL...Jackie. I will say this. Chahlie was not cool. Ugh. Train wreck? He was unbelievable. And..I couldn't lose him. ( I think it was the accent)..and I was so gracious.I pretended I didn't know him. That really made him ..well.

Eventually...he collapsed in to one of World Market's chairs. Maybe I would have been flattered if he had been..somewhat normal. As it was...he was very interested.I think it was 2.00 am for him.Looking through the bottom of a beer bottle.LOL.


Do you think Charlie would go for this one?

http://www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk/ne ... -1-3073064


Heheh.


She has real inner beauty - just look at her empathize with the Kerchers as they face a nightmare beyond imagination:

Hidden Content: show
Image



Reminds me of just why I loathe her. pig-)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I just read the article in the Guardian. Knox wants to convince the Kerchers of her innocence.

It's always about HER. If she had one ounce of empathy..she would understand that they want NOTHING to do with her.

Oh..and NOW she feels guilty about lying about Patrick. She wasn't able to explain then. Please.

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
chami wrote:
zorba wrote:
If you replace a word here & there, this line from Sollecito, uttered right after the murder, shows he had certain things/events in mind, he switched a name a place a time in everything he said, as did Knox.


Which of the following seems like it could be the real version, 1 or 2?

1) Sollecito said: My girlfriend was her flatmate and she was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'

2) Zorba said: Meredith was my girlfriend's flatmate, Meredith was crying and screaming, 'How could anyone do this?'


Let me try. Zorba uses the victim's proper name twice while Sollecito uses the victim's name once in possessive case.

The hatred makes it difficult for the criminals to pronounce the victim's proper name.

Did you notice how infrequently Amanda uses the proper noun "Meredith"?

Sollecito said what Sollecito could.

Fear and danger makes a man brave. Meredith was not crying - that is what I think. Zorba's version is unreal.



Chami you are a very brave man/woman, one who upon having your throat sliced up, wouldn't cry.

I think it is so stupid what you wrote in reply. And it doesn't even matter, but Sollecito's lies DO matter, very much indeed.


Get real.

I do not know which language you are using Chami, but Sollecito did not use Meredith's name once and in fact, what I wrote has absolutely nothing to do with any of that.
It has to do with people making up stories, based on what actually, probably happened.

You simply did not get it at all.

Meredith IS the victim, that is what it is about.
If you so not think Meredith was likely to have said anything at all like this, I wonder how your mind works, what I have written is obviously not supposed to be exact words she said but the type of things she probably may have said in desperation whilst being attacked by three individuals and murdered.


Meredith, by the way, was female.


Please note: It is bad manners to write about someone in response to what they wrote as if that person is not around, as you do, speaking about me in the 3rd person.

Like this: Chami does not understand English.



One thing is sure: I cannot write English!

But then there are cries and cries. From battle cries to cry of even small animals. But when we talk about the cry of a baby or cry of a young woman, we usually understand what we mean.

Of course I do not know at all what happened that fateful night, but I am sure she was not crying and begging to be spared or wondering what is really going on.

To most people, the reality will dawn early. They are going to murder. She was trying to defend herself. And she was being restrained. It was not a game some adults play.

If you have ever visited an abattoir you will know that all animals feel pain too but there will be hardly any noise when they are killed. It is so quick that it is almost painless. Or so we think.

"Sollecito uses the victim's name once in possessive case"- I should have said possessive pronun (but is it really so difficult to guess the intended meaning?).

"It is bad manners..."- I beg to differ. I am talking to a large number of people and it is good habit to explicitly declare proper nouns now and then.

"Meredith, by the way, was female"- did I make a mistake in gender? Extremely sorry but I hope the message has been passed.

By the way, what are they called? - people who cannot spell properly?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Does anyone have access to the complete article? A subscription is needed to access the rest of the text, and I'm wondering if anyone has that.
This article appears to be different than the one published in 2007, but it addresses the same interview that the journalist had with Sollecito immediately after the murder.

Link: http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/new ... 370607.ece
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Totally Off Topic ... does anyone here do SQL server administration? If so, I have a question regarding whether is there any "new" coding along the lines of defining and executing new mathematical functions? Please PM me if you have experience in this field ... Thx
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

There is a brandnew petition that asks John Kerry to please assure the public now that under no circumstances Amanda Knox will be extradited.

They are looking for a thousand signatures. Knox's Facebook page has around 4,000 likes, I believe, so that should be easy peasy.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
There is a brandnew petition that asks John Kerry to please assure the public now that under no circumstances Amanda Knox will be extradited.

They are looking for a thousand signatures. Knox's Facebook page has around 4,000 likes, I believe, so that should be easy peasy.


It seems to me that the petition will get the same response that similar requests have had in the past: there can be no comment until an extradition request is made. Why would anyone think that he can make a decision without reviewing an extradition request? Do they really expect him to guarantee that Knox will not be extradited because, what, she's from Seattle?
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
There is a brandnew petition that asks John Kerry to please assure the public now that under no circumstances Amanda Knox will be extradited.

They are looking for a thousand signatures. Knox's Facebook page has around 4,000 likes, I believe, so that should be easy peasy.


It seems to me that the petition will get the same response that similar requests have had in the past: there can be no comment until an extradition request is made. Why would anyone think that he can make a decision without reviewing an extradition request? Do they really expect him to guarantee that Knox will not be extradited because, what, she's from Seattle?


I agree with you.

From a Knox supporters perspective though, what they are after is a blanket statement that Italy is not on eye level with the US and that any effort to get Knox to serve her sentence will be futile.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
There is a brandnew petition that asks John Kerry to please assure the public now that under no circumstances Amanda Knox will be extradited.

They are looking for a thousand signatures. Knox's Facebook page has around 4,000 likes, I believe, so that should be easy peasy.


It seems to me that the petition will get the same response that similar requests have had in the past: there can be no comment until an extradition request is made. Why would anyone think that he can make a decision without reviewing an extradition request? Do they really expect him to guarantee that Knox will not be extradited because, what, she's from Seattle?


I agree with you.

From a Knox supporters perspective though, what they are after is a blanket statement that Italy is not on eye level with the US and that any effort to get Knox to serve her sentence will be futile.


If Knox groupies want to ensure that Knox is not extradited, they should petition that the extradition treaties between the two countries be cancelled. It seems to me that as long as the treaties are in place, all reasonable requests for extradition will be honoured. The fact that Knox has already been convicted simplifies the request to little more than a formality.

Perhaps what the groupies are really seeking is a new Law: No Knox Extradition Law, whereby Knox will not be extradited regardless of her criminal activities.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith Kercher killer Rudy Guede FREED for hours at a time to study history degree
By Andy Lines
Feb 11, 2014

Mr Biscotti added: “Rudy can go out of prison for several hours at a time now and that’s the law all over Italy."
"He spends his days studying history."
“He spends some hours with a teacher, we don’t want to say where he is because he will get swamped by people from all over the world.”


MIRROR
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
There is a brandnew petition that asks John Kerry to please assure the public now that under no circumstances Amanda Knox will be extradited.

They are looking for a thousand signatures. Knox's Facebook page has around 4,000 likes, I believe, so that should be easy peasy.


It seems to me that the petition will get the same response that similar requests have had in the past: there can be no comment until an extradition request is made. Why would anyone think that he can make a decision without reviewing an extradition request? Do they really expect him to guarantee that Knox will not be extradited because, what, she's from Seattle?


I agree with you.

From a Knox supporters perspective though, what they are after is a blanket statement that Italy is not on eye level with the US and that any effort to get Knox to serve her sentence will be futile.


If Knox groupies want to ensure that Knox is not extradited, they should petition that the extradition treaties between the two countries be cancelled. It seems to me that as long as the treaties are in place, all reasonable requests for extradition will be honoured. The fact that Knox has already been convicted simplifies the request to little more than a formality.

Perhaps what the groupies are really seeking is a new Law: No Knox Extradition Law, whereby Knox will not be extradited regardless of her criminal activities.


I have learned from Twitter user @Annella, a fervent Knox supporter, that the petition has been "halted" and that's why there are not that many signatures. Only around 1,800 instead of 100,000.

I wanted to post the screenshot, but Annella and Guilter Watching delete many of their tweets once they've posted them. It was already gone.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Meredith Kercher killer Rudy Guede FREED for hours at a time to study history degree
By Andy Lines
Feb 11, 2014

Mr Biscotti added: “Rudy can go out of prison for several hours at a time now and that’s the law all over Italy."
"He spends his days studying history."
“He spends some hours with a teacher, we don’t want to say where he is because he will get swamped by people from all over the world.”


MIRROR


Indifferent to the Kerchers suffering, just like the other two killers: Asked whether he was aware of the furious reaction to the news, he shrugged: “If the English and Meredith’s family are upset about this I don’t know what to say… it’s the law.”


I share Mr. Walter Biscotti's viewpoint regarding the strategy of their defence: Mr Biscotti said: “I wouldn’t like to swap my trial with theirs. We did the best out of it. Look where they are now.

"They face a long time in prison and I wouldn’t like to be in their position.

“I am convinced we had the best strategy in the trial. The verdict on Knox and Sollecito confirms my opinion.”
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Meredith Kercher killer Rudy Guede FREED for hours at a time to study history degree
By Andy Lines
Feb 11, 2014

Mr Biscotti added: “Rudy can go out of prison for several hours at a time now and that’s the law all over Italy."
"He spends his days studying history."
“He spends some hours with a teacher, we don’t want to say where he is because he will get swamped by people from all over the world.”


MIRROR


What stood out for me in the article is that Guede's lawyer states that he believes Guede is innocent of the murder. It's exactly what Knox and Sollecito's lawyers say. There's something about Guede's lawyer making that claim that undermines the same claim from the other lawyers. We also have Sollecito claiming that Guede should have been on trial with him. I don't understand that. Guede, if I recall correctly, elected the abbreviated trial in part to separate himself from the other two because he feared that they would blame him during the trial process. Rather than Sollecito making claims that Guede should have taken the long, drawn out trial, Sollecito should be claiming that he should have opted for the abbreviated trial process. If so, Sollecito would be at the same stage in his studies (since he's still doing his exams) and he could be ready for work release with all of this behind him.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:

I have learned from Twitter user @Annella, a fervent Knox supporter, that the petition has been "halted" and that's why there are not that many signatures. Only around 1,800 instead of 100,000.

I wanted to post the screenshot, but Annella and Guilter Watching delete many of their tweets once they've posted them. It was already gone.


You need Snaggit! I'm sure they halted the petition when they realized that only 1800 in 330,000,000 million people care what happens to her. It's more likely that the rest of the population would like to see the convicted murderer put in a place that will ensure the safety of everyone else.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
There is a brandnew petition that asks John Kerry to please assure the public now that under no circumstances Amanda Knox will be extradited.

They are looking for a thousand signatures. Knox's Facebook page has around 4,000 likes, I believe, so that should be easy peasy.


How old is the law that requires only 100,000 signatures before the President gets involved? I'm curious about what the population was at the time that the law was drafted, and whether it's time to update the Petition Law. Surely the President of the United States has better things to do than to decide whether Justin Bieber can behave while he is in the country, and whether extradition treaties should be violated for convicted murderers.

Justin Bieber can behave and the President's wife commented that he should have more parental guidance and examine who is in his life, who is not in his life. I think that if the President of the United States was asked to comment about whether extradition treaties should be violated on behalf of convicted murderers, his wife might respond by deferring to the fact that the US will maintain and respect its treaties with its allies.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I wonder what sort of history classes Guede is studying. I was surprised when I read that he was interested in history. He didn't seem all that academically inclined from what I read in the past. Did he finish high school, or did he drop out to the great disappointment of his host family, and hang around the basketball courts instead of attend school?

If he did not finish high school, and instead became a "drug dealing thieving drifter" that chose the most unbelievable, complicated and time consuming method for break and entry, how does he qualify for university? The article mentioned that he has been spending a couple of hours a day with a teacher. Is he learning to read, write and speak Italian properly, learning to write essays, undergoing rehabilitation?

The Italian prison system is about identifying character flaws and rehabilitating prisoners. Knox had some rehabilitation, but it seems that she was released prematurely given her abnormal behaviour and fixation on having contact with her victim's family. Guede went into the system and, if he is eligible for study and work programs, then he has had 8 and 1/3 in a rehabilitation system (including two pre-trial years).

Knox had only four years in prison, but while she was in that rehabilitation system, she was still writing short stories about using drugs and observing death in others. She was described as cold and harsh, which is still true today. She did not have enough time to clear her head, and neither did Sollecito. Now that he's stuck in Italy, just as Knox has been stuck in the US since 2011, he's taken to the streets to rally media support.

Guede, on the other hand, is afraid to attend school or work because of the furore that has been whipped up by Sollecito and Knox. The comment about his relationship to his victim's family is that it is the law. He opted for the option that meant work/study release after half of two thirds of his sentence. In some small way, the victim's family may be appreciative that he admitted his participation in the murder, did not require a drawn out, painful trial, and did not spare his co-murderers from prosecution He wants to take his own path, away from the media frenzy that Knox and Sollecito cook up everywhere they go. Reading between the lines, it sounds like he is having private tutoring because he wants to be left alone, and does not believe that is possible in the Knox/Sollecito climate of protesting their verdict.

I wonder if he'll wait until they are rounded up and put into prison - after the verdict is confirmed by the Supreme Court (if it is confirmed?) to exercise his legal right to transition into society.

I hope that Guede has cleared his head. If he participates in another similar murder, but by himself, it would cast enough doubt on Meredith's murder to clear Knox and Sollecito. Perhaps Knox and Sollecito should enable and promote Guede's release, rather than resent it, because if he alone is responsible, and he does it again, they are more or less cleared. On the other hand, if he lives a quiet, productive life, they will forever remain under suspicion - which would mean that they should object to his release and attempt to keep him out of the public eye for as long as possible. If he's only a "child", a "kid", like Foxy Knoxy, then rehabilitation may be successful. He is released before his 30th birthday.

There was a German student that got involved with an equestrian rider (from Connecticut?) who was completely spoiled by her parents. She cooked up the idea to get the inheritance early by murdering her parents. Both she and her German friend were convicted, but he wanted to be tried in the German system, where he would be released in no time. Instead, he was extradited from England to the US to be tried and subsequently sentenced to life in prison. The mitigating circumstance in Germany is his age. In the US, where the prison system is punitive, age is not a consideration. Guede benefited from his youth in the same way that Knox benefitted from youth, with the difference being that Guede stepped up and Sollecito and Knox assumed that they could beat the system. Instead, they came out more damaged than when they went in because they were already damaged before the murder.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

@Jester

Would it clear Rudy Guede or Raffaele Sollecito if Amanda Knox killed someone on her own? I don't think so.

Evidence of their presence and subsequent clean-up has been established at the crime scene. All three are guilty. Maybe some of the attackers have more responsibility than others but they had their chance to come forward. The silence is a sure sign that all three of them have a lot to hide.

To have Rudy Guede enjoying some sort of freedom, no matter how small, after only serving six years, is a slap in the face.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
@Jester

Would it clear Rudy Guede or Raffaele Sollecito if Amanda Knox killed someone on her own? I don't think so.

Evidence of their presence and subsequent clean-up has been established at the crime scene. All three are guilty. Maybe some of the attackers have more responsibility than others but they had their chance to come forward. The silence is a sure sign that all three of them have a lot to hide.

To have Rudy Guede enjoying some sort of freedom, no matter how small, after only serving six years, is a slap in the face.


Quite right.
A completed murder sentence and prison time in the EU may appear to be a slap in the face to people that are inclined towards a punitive prison system, but with youth as a mitigating factor, and pleading in the first instance of the trial, there are allowances for rehabilitation. Guede admitted guilt and spared the family the suffering of 7 years of gruesome photos and litigation at trial. He stepped up, and for that, he is compensated. Knox and Sollecito did not step up, nor can they explain why they are implicated in the murder. If Guede is learning literacy, perhaps he can function in society again (many have remarked that he could not read his own writing).

If Knox killed someone on her own, it would not exonerate Guede, but that is because Knox and Sollecito are bound in this murder. Guede has set himself aside and if he can maintain a productive, quiet, criminal activity-free lifestyle, it reflects poorly on the other two murderers. That is, they fare better if he demonstrates himself to be a solitarty brutal murderer.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Guede completed high school. He then went on to college, but he dropped out of that because he didn't like the course.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
If Guede is learning literacy, perhaps he can function in society again (many have remarked that he could not read his own writing).



I'm not sure where that funny rumour came from. I remember Rudy reading his letter out in court without any problems.

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito's local gathering was in support of his "innocence." It struck me Amanda's name was absent from the banner. The separation of the pair is obvious by team Sollecito. A quick look at AK's blog has a new photo. A very serious Amanda is holding up her own poster "siamo innocenti" we are innocent. They are on the campaign trail , Sollecito is trying to cast doubt on Amanda as a political opponent would.
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The WhiteHouse.GOV petition requiring 100,000 verifiable US signatures to succeed, of course they'll withdraw at 1800, too embarrassing to continue, easier to lobby senator Cantwell and John Kerry.

The "new" Change Org petition is stuck at 98, with petitioners like "Linda Hoppe" and "Tow Nale-Fungass" (comment: I'm drunk and stinky :)

Sigh.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrew Gumbel has written a long piece in the LA Review of Books p-((( :

February 11th, 2014
Trial By Osmosis: Amanda Knox, Raffaele Sollecito and the Nightmare of Italian Justice
by Andrew Gumbel

LA REVIEW OF BOOKS
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

In the meantime, Rudy Guede has written another letter, posted on the Facebook page 'Processo e dintorni. Storie di vite e storie di giustizia' ('Process and its surroundings. Stories of lives and stories of justice').

Meredith: Guede, "Now I speak. About me too much falsehood"

Perugia, February 11 - " Against me are made continuous false imaginative reconstructions for the sole purpose of wanting to denigrate my figure and person, systematically and in a negative way in the public eye and not just the Italian." That's what he wrote in his own hand on the Facebook page ' Process and its surroundings. Stories of lives and stories of justice ' , Rudy Hermann Guede , the young Ivorian sentenced to 16 years in prison for the murder of Meredith Kercher . A sheet of notebook paper handwritten and signed by Guede. "To my regret - the letter reads - I'm forced to take a pen and paper and write just for the sake of truth and all those thousands of people who still believe in justice, but they can not access all the trial parts that this sad, extremely complex legal case consists of and that is dramatically painful for those who lived it. Notwithstanding my sentence and 'res judicata', for too long I have been a witness to a continuous and willful manipulation and alteration of the data of the proceedings. Against me are made continuous false imaginative reconstructions for the sole purpose of wanting to denigrate my figure and person, systematically and in a negative way in the public eye and not just the Italian . "

"In the final judgment, as far as I'm concerned (apart from a few false imaginative reconstructions), I was acquitted of theft and simulation of a crime scene, a fact that is never heard or mentioned in the various journalistic reconstructions, - the letter continues - I also want to point out I do not accept in any way to be passed off and continually held up as a drifter, a thief, a homeless, seeing my person and my dignity offended continually, denigrated and stereotyped by facts and things that do not relate to me, through serious prejudicial defamation ..., when, in fact, I had a beautiful family and squeaky clean and friendly relations in Perugia."


AGI

Attachment:
Rudy Guede Letter Feb 04, 2014.jpg


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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
But then there are cries and cries. From battle cries to cry of even small animals. But when we talk about the cry of a baby or cry of a young woman, we usually understand what we mean.

Of course I do not know at all what happened that fateful night, but I am sure she was not crying and begging to be spared or wondering what is really going on.

To most people, the reality will dawn early. They are going to murder. She was trying to defend herself. And she was being restrained. It was not a game some adults play.

If you have ever visited an abattoir you will know that all animals feel pain too but there will be hardly any noise when they are killed. It is so quick that it is almost painless. Or so we think.


I am not sure what this spat is all about (I have read over a few times and I don't get it) - but I have strong feeling in relation to this comparison terrifying and disgusting. How can anyone compare an animal to a human being that was being murdered SLOWLY by people that were meant to be her friends!?
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
In the meantime, Rudy Guede has written another letter, posted on the Facebook page 'Processo e dintorni. Storie di vite e storie di giustizia' ('Process and its surrounding. Stories of lives and stories of justice').

Meredith: Guede, "Now I speak . About me too much falsehood"

Perugia, February 11 - " Against me are made continuous false imaginative reconstructions for the sole purpose of wanting to denigrate my figure and person, systematically and in a negative way in the public eye and not just Italian." That's what he wrote in his own hand on the Facebook page ' Process and its surroundings. Stories of lives and stories of justice ' , Rudy Hermann Guede , the young Ivorian sentenced to 16 years in prison for the murder of Meredith Kercher . A sheet of notebook paper handwritten and signed by Guede. "To my regret - the letter reads - I'm forced to take a pen and paper and write just for the sake of truth and all those thousands of people who still believe in justice, but they can not access all the trial components this sad extremely complex legal case consists of and dramatically painful for those who lived it . Notwithstanding my sentence and 'res judicata', for too long I have been a witness to a continuous and willful manipulation and alteration of the data of the proceedings. Against me are made continuous false imaginative reconstructions for the sole purpose of wanting to denigrate my figure and person, systematically and in a negative way in the public eye and not just Italian . "

"The final judgment as I'm concerned (apart from a few false imaginative reconstructions ) I was acquitted of theft and simulation of crime, a fact that is never heard or mentioned in the various journalistic reconstructions - the letter continues - I also want to point out I do not accept in any way to be continually held up as a drifter , a thief, a homeless , seeing my person and my dignity offended continually , denigrated and stereotyped by facts and things that do not belong to me, through serious prejudicial defamation ..., yet still , when I had ( beyond my personal experiences ), a beautiful family and squeaky clean record and friendly relations in Perugia " .


AGI

Attachment:
Rudy Guede Letter Feb 04, 2014.jpg



IS HE KIDDING???? THIS is what he has to say? Not, "I am sorry for the brutal, horrific slaughter of a beautiful, defenseless young woman?" This? He should wad this paper up and choke on it. There are no words.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thank God, some of the journalists and writers are starting to speak out about the manipulative Knox PR machine in the media:

Op-ed: Trial by Media - The Case of Amanda Knox
The media continues to hold sway over the truth in the Amanda Knox case.
By: Victoria A. Brownworth
February 10 2014

In the U.S. ABC News has been a virtual PR firm for Knox, devoting hours of time on both 20/20 and Good Morning America as well as the actual ABC Nightly News promoting Knox’s innocence. Diane Sawyer did a heavily promoted hour-long interview with Knox when she was released from prison in 2011. And when the Jan. 31 conviction came in, on her ABC Nightly News broadcast, Sawyer led with "the American girl" Amanda Knox–even though Knox is 26. A full six minutes of broadcast time was devoted to Knox–including video of her singing and playing guitar. When has a national news network treated a twice-convicted murderer in such a manner?
...
The two media portraits of Knox–the sex-obsessed sexual manipulator she’s been portrayed as being by the European media and the pristine girl-next-door innocent-abroad the U.S. media has presented conflict, obviously. But what has been lost in the emphasis on Knox as the victim of the story is the actual murder victim, Meredith Kercher.

Imagine if Knox had been brought to trial in the U.S. – accused of the sex-torture murder of a young woman of color (Kercher’s mother is Indian) yet accusing a black man of the crime and alleging she was there when he murdered the victim.

Do we think the U.S. media would be as kind to Knox under those circumstances, or would she be a reviled perpetrator like Susan Smith, pretending a black man had kidnapped her two children when in fact she had driven them to their deaths herself?

Would Knox have been given a $4 million advance to write her prison memoir–or would that have fallen under the "can’t profit from a crime" dictate in the U.S.?
...
But what is clear, is that the media has not served justice well. American media has completely ignored facts of the case–and Knox’s indictment of Lumumba–and Kercher has been lost entirely in the emphasis on Knox as victim.


SHE WIRED
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Rudy is very concerned about * His Image*. Seems to care more about that than with any other aspects. Personally..I find his use of words difficult to process. Both he and Knox have this bizarre disjointed use of verbage. Almost as though they need to use words that point to intelligence, rather than real substance. Or sense.

There is nothing to glean in the letter. It could be that he has been told to say nothing about the case. I imagine Prison is not the safest place to be. Snitching is a huge no-no. When Guede is released..then I expect much more to come to light.

Perhaps a book is in the works? My thinking is it will be all about Rudy, if so. His childhood..his upbringing. Definitely sees himself as a victim.

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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A victim of being stupid and not doing what was right... yeah maybe.

His image so far to me is of a dupe.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith: Amanda self-timer post on Twitter, "we are innocent"

Attachment:
Amanda Knox, We are innocent.jpg


Perugia, February 11 - A photo in black and white with a sad expression and a blank sheet of paper with the words in Italian: "We are innocent." The image has appeared today on the Twitter profile of Amanda Knox. The young American, who in the picture is wearing a dark t-shirt...


AGI


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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
Rudy is very concerned about * His Image*. Seems to care more about that than with any other aspects. Personally..I find his use of words difficult to process. Both he and Knox have this bizarre disjointed use of verbage. Almost as though they need to use words that point to intelligence, rather than real substance. Or sense.

There is nothing to glean in the letter. It could be that he has been told to say nothing about the case. I imagine Prison is not the safest place to be. Snitching is a huge no-no. When Guede is released..then I expect much more to come to light.

Perhaps a book is in the works? My thinking is it will be all about Rudy, if so. His childhood..his upbringing. Definitely sees himself as a victim.


Whiny wiggle-words. Almost, but not quite saying something. The three of them are masters at it. They have been doing this dance with each other for 6 long years now. Maybe he means this, maybe he will talk later, maybe he is afraid. All absolutely possible. But, it is still the same tune. Me, me, me. I am unjustly branded a drifter. BFD, I say. You are a murderer. Period. And there is no more room on the pity me train. I'm just plain sick and disgusted by the way they are portraying themselves as victims. I get nothing of any substance either, cape.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox Strikes Pose to Proclaim Innocence
By Russell Goldman
Feb 11, 2014 1:37pm

In a stark image posted to her Twitter feed, Amanda Knox again proclaimed her innocence just days after an Italian judge found the American and her one-time boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito guilty of murdering British student Meredith Kercher in 2007.

Knox, 26, who has been in the United States since an Italian appeals court overturned her conviction in 2011, appears in the black and white photo, wearing a stern expression and holding a placard that reads: “SIAMO INNOCENTI,” or “We Are Innocent.”


ABC NEWS
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Interview with Greg Hampikian (if you have enough patience to listen to him talk for 23 minutes!):

February 9 -- Viewpoint
Boise State Professor and Director of the Idaho Innocence Project Dr. Greg Hampikian

KTVB
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Meredith: Amanda self-timer post on Twitter, "we are innocent"

Attachment:
Amanda Knox, We are innocent.jpg


Perugia, February 11 - A photo in black and white with a sad expression and a blank sheet of paper with the words in Italian: "We are innocent." The image has appeared today on the Twitter profile of Amanda Knox. The young American, who in the picture is wearing a dark t-shirt...


AGI


Itlooks like a mug shot.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm thinking of the saying. 2 people can keep a secret if one is dead.3 people keeping a secret? Impossible.
That look of Knox..holding that piece of paper ( which looks like the board when someone is being booked ) is one of reproach. TO RAFFLES!!! Because she's beginning to realize that he is pulling away. She's sending him a message. WE ARE IN THIS.......TOGETHER. Raffles has made it very plain that he has been left out to dry by the Knox camp.

He's the one in the biggest danger..at the moment. Knox has kicked him to the curb..the last few years. Knox had no use for Raff. Thought she was on free street. But now...now...Guede is almost free...it's a HUGE Problem for Knox. Her hold over Raffles is gone. Now..we shall see how the worms turn.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Much-Demonized Rudy Guede Is Back In The News And Increasingly Threatening
Posted by Peter Quennell

TJMK
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Rudy Guede may be getting out (clear) around the time they finally insert Sollecito in. Karma.

"Black man found, black man guilty" (The last thing Sollecito said to Guede)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox asks for help on Twitter

AMANDA KNOX AND REACTIONS OF TWITTER USERS - Photo of Amanda Knox was immediately commented on by Twitter users: if someone believes in the innocence of the two young people, "it seems obvious, when you let us say these two people, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito [are innocent]; on the other hand there are those who are convinced of their guilt, "but who do you believe?", but there are [also] those who, referring to the sign, bearing the words "We are innocent", say there's another character involved in the crime, wondering if he is innocent too, Rudy Guede: "also Mr. Guede?"


GIORNALETTISMO

Some humor from Italy:

"It was the bar owner"
"But also free my cousin"
"I sell NOKIA N95"
"I have also voted"
"And was a hacker of PD"

PHOTO GALLERY
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I found this link of notable University of Washington students and alumni.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... and_alumni

Under the section marked Crime, there are two names. One is Ted Bundy.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Latest blog post by Knox (she is definitely worried about Sollecito's attempts to distance himself from her. Gotta keep him on a tight leash. ;) )

Raffaele is not a slave
by Amanda Posted on February 11, 2014

It has been claimed that, in this most recent round of closing arguments and in interviews since the latest guilty verdict, Raffaele and his defense attorneys have finally betrayed their resentment and started to put distance between him and me legally and personally.

This is not the case. Actually, Attorney Bongiorno’s closing arguments and Raffaele’s latest statements pinpoint and attack a fundamental weakness in the prosecution’s case against both Raffaele and me that has been ignored for far too long: Raffaele is not a slave.
...
Raffaele has plenty of reason for resentment, but not against me.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Latest blog post by Knox (she is definitely worried about Sollecito distancing himself from her ;) )

Raffaele is not a slave
by Amanda Posted on February 11, 2014

It has been claimed that, in this most recent round of closing arguments and in interviews since the latest guilty verdict, Raffaele and his defense attorneys have finally betrayed their resentment and started to put distance between him and me legally and personally.

This is not the case. Actually, Attorney Bongiorno’s closing arguments and Raffaele’s latest statements pinpoint and attack a fundamental weakness in the prosecution’s case against both Raffaele and me that has been ignored for far too long: Raffaele is not a slave.
...
Raffaele has plenty of reason for resentment, but not against me.


I suppose this is a way to argue lack of understandable motive. Frankly, at this point, this is a weak argument, an attempt again, to distract. Slave or not, the three of them were responsible for the brutal murder of Meredith Kercher. The evidence puts them there. The two of them have only compounded their own problems with all of their lies, their attempts to alter the crime scene, clean-up and staging. All distractions.

Whether or not Sollecito was a slave has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he is guilty of the murder. There is no weakness in the prosecution's case.

I read a comment on another site the other day that stated that if you witness a murder or see a video-tape of a murder being committed, it lends nothing to the case to know WHY. The evidence is right there in front of you. Do you need to know why it happened to strengthen your belief in what you saw? The evidence is there, right in front of us. It is undeniable. Knowing why doesn't do a thing to change the evidence. They did it, this awful thing.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just in case anyone doesn't want to visit AK's blog, this is here recent statement in full

She forgets that it was 'animal' porn and not just plain porn... what a difference a single word can make. I didn't try commenting to add this because I don't think she will approve it.
(BTW as an aside it appears she has been offered 20,000 to star in a porn movie)



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It has been claimed that, in this most recent round of closing arguments and in interviews since the latest guilty verdict, Raffaele and his defense attorneys have finally betrayed their resentment and started to put distance between him and me legally and personally.

This is not the case. Actually, Attorney Bongiorno’s closing arguments and Raffaele’s latest statements pinpoint and attack a fundamental weakness in the prosecution’s case against both Raffaele and me that has been ignored for far too long: Raffaele is not a slave.

The prosecution’s case relies upon the idea that the brutal murder of Meredith Kercher hinges upon me: that only I could have facilitated access to her; that only I could have had motive to instigate the assault and plunge in the knife. As for Raffaele, because he had only just met Meredith and had never met Rudy Guede, the prosecution tried to depict him as both predisposed to violent sexual fetish and absolutely subservient to a dominant female companion. They cited his habit of carrying a pocketknife (which did not correspond with Meredith’s stab wounds), his Japanese comic book collection (which included girl-power Sailor Moon), an incident at school when he was caught viewing porn, and the one Marilyn Manson song on his computer. Because he was present and supportive of me in the immediacy of the discovery of the murder and because my surviving roommates had described us as piccioncini (“lovebirds”—a far cry from the dominatrix/slave), the prosecution assumed and pursued the theory of Raffaele’s unquestioning devotion/obsession with me.

The prosecution has sustained this theory for years even when, to begin with, they had even less of an objective case against Raffaele than against me. An unreliable trace of Raffaele’s DNA on Meredith’s bra clasp. A partial bloody footprint on a bathmat that more closely corresponds with Rudy Guede’s footprints. The unreliable testimony of a homeless, heroin-using serial witness who claims to have seen Raffaele and I in Piazza Grimana between 9-11:30 p.m. the night of the murder. That’s it.

In a recent email exchange, Raffaele expressed his frustration to me: “I don’t want to be punished for, nor have to continue to justify, those things that regard you and not me. Obviously the evidence demonstrates both of our innocence, but it seems that for the judges and the people this objectivity is of no importance.” The point being that the prosecution’s case is founded upon unreliable and irrelevant circumstantial evidence that furthermore has nothing to do with Raffaele at all. As tenuous as the case is against me, it is illogical and unfair that Raffaele should be held legally answerable for it. No judicial panel in their right mind can determine guilt beyond a reasonable doubt for Raffaele based on the objective evidence specifically related to him that the prosecution presented in court.

Raffaele’s experience of surviving injustice, documented courageously and honestly in his memoir Honor Bound, has been uniquely traumatic and desperate. Part of that struggle has been having to come to terms with the fact that his judicial system has disregarded him as an individual who is capable of self-determination and owed the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

Raffaele has plenty of reason for resentment, but not against me. The only reason he has been dragged into this is because he happens to be my alibi. He is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque charicature that is “Foxy Knoxy”.

I cant figure out how to hide this - incase someone doesn't want to read her
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Latest blog post by Knox (she is definitely worried about Sollecito distancing himself from her ;) )

Raffaele is not a slave
by Amanda Posted on February 11, 2014

It has been claimed that, in this most recent round of closing arguments and in interviews since the latest guilty verdict, Raffaele and his defense attorneys have finally betrayed their resentment and started to put distance between him and me legally and personally.

This is not the case. Actually, Attorney Bongiorno’s closing arguments and Raffaele’s latest statements pinpoint and attack a fundamental weakness in the prosecution’s case against both Raffaele and me that has been ignored for far too long: Raffaele is not a slave.
...
Raffaele has plenty of reason for resentment, but not against me.


I was about to post the same, she even uses a picture of Raffaele's innocence-campaign as her banner on facebook now. I think she realizes her biggest concern right now should be him. I already found it to be very telling when her mother mentioned, that Amanda was most concerned about Raffaele when they listened to the verdict.

------

By the way: I hope everybody is fine with me joining your discussion - I just registered on this forum. I became interested in this case a few weeks ago, after becoming confused with the "facts" the media had to offer me. As a result, I was desperately searching for the real facts when I became aware of this website and TJMK. I've been following your discussion as a silent guest for the past weeks following the latest verdict. I have to check the information on this case daily since then and I thought it would be the best to end my silence and actively partake in your discussions.

Also, I'd like to take this chance and express my appreciation for everyone involved in gathering all of the evidence and making it accessible for people like me aswell as all the effort, that went into translating the testimonies, motivation reports and statements made in this case! If it wasn't for you I would probably been stuck in this chaos of misinformation and flat-out lies. So, thank you for that!

If needed I can give a short introduction of myself:
My name is Stefan, I'm 23 years old and live in Germany. I'm an absolute novice when it comes to law and I have to admit that my english used to be better, especially when it comes to writing. Well, hello everyone. :)

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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raffaele is indeed 'not a slave'; he hasn't confirmed she was with him that night, has he?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, Stefan, welcome to the forum. Thanks for mentioning her Facebook defense page https://www.facebook.com/AmandaKnoxDefense. Funny how she mentions him, but he hasn't graced her many sites with a comment yet? Hmm.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Schdiwi wrote:
By the way: I hope everybody is fine with me joining your discussion - I just registered on this forum. ...Well, hello everyone. :)


Hi Schdiwi and welcome to the forum. (Willkommen!)

We're glad you've found and joined us. Lots of non-native English speakers here, so don't be shy to post.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

For your information.

Screenshot from one of todays Twitter conversations of Amanda Knox supporters commenting on a photo that shows Meredith Kercher's family.

I don't feel like commenting any further. The tweets speak for themselves.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

BTW, Aranavachi, really love your avatar!
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Latest blog post by Knox (she is definitely worried about Sollecito's attempts to distance himself from her. Gotta keep him on a tight leash. ;) )

Raffaele is not a slave
by Amanda Posted on February 11, 2014

It has been claimed that, in this most recent round of closing arguments and in interviews since the latest guilty verdict, Raffaele and his defense attorneys have finally betrayed their resentment and started to put distance between him and me legally and personally.

This is not the case. Actually, Attorney Bongiorno’s closing arguments and Raffaele’s latest statements pinpoint and attack a fundamental weakness in the prosecution’s case against both Raffaele and me that has been ignored for far too long: Raffaele is not a slave.
...
Raffaele has plenty of reason for resentment, but not against me.


Amanda has become very reactive. RS complains about her then posts a banner with supporters with no tribute to her. She fires back with a supportive poster showing how afraid she is of being separated . People see through her and call her on it. She comes out with a blog article devoted to her partner in crime trying to reign him in.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hmmm..Raffles has already emailed Knox...he's putting her on notice as to what his attorneys will try and do.

However...I do believe it's too late. Imagine. There is no way he could go under the fire of cross examination. After the Judge's remarks..he squirrels with * No-one asked me*.

Now...he has basically said * I'm going down with the ship ( Knox).....and I'm being blamed because of her. ( He's really saying there's far more reason to convict Knox than him).

Hey Raffles..You takes your chances :)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Welcome Schwidi..

A very nice first post.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Latest blog post by Knox (she is definitely worried about Sollecito's attempts to distance himself from her. Gotta keep him on a tight leash. ;) )

Raffaele is not a slave
by Amanda Posted on February 11, 2014

It has been claimed that, in this most recent round of closing arguments and in interviews since the latest guilty verdict, Raffaele and his defense attorneys have finally betrayed their resentment and started to put distance between him and me legally and personally.

This is not the case. Actually, Attorney Bongiorno’s closing arguments and Raffaele’s latest statements pinpoint and attack a fundamental weakness in the prosecution’s case against both Raffaele and me that has been ignored for far too long: Raffaele is not a slave.


...
Raffaele has plenty of reason for resentment, but not against me.


Amanda has become very reactive. RS complains about her then posts a banner with supporters with no tribute to her. She fires back with a supportive poster showing how afraid she is of being separated . People see through her and call her on it. She comes out with a blog article devoted to her partner in crime trying to reign him in.



I'd like to highlight this. *Actually, Bongiorno's closing arguments and Raffaele's recent statements...................
*
This sounds like distancing to me. It's almost as though there has been no contact with the 2 * lovebirds*. This sudden flurry from Knox...is because she is one VERY Scared Murderess.

I'll hazard a VERY GOOD guess that she's 2nd thinking her behaviour to him the last 3 years. It's not over until the last card hits.It's called...Cry me a river. Knox matter of factly says..on hearing the verdict.......28 and 1/2 years. I'm worried about Raffaele.

No..she wasn't worried about him at that point. It's his latest statements that have hit home. Her psycopathy believed she'd always hold the cards. She'd continue to manipulate.But with Raffles..saying....I rely and count ONLY on my Family and Greta..and my friends in Italy .........

Ding ding ding. The pennies are droppping.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

To clarify. When EDDA SAID: Amanda was only worried about Raffaele......HUH. That's Edda's spin..Letting all and sundry know that Knox is only thinking of others. PLEASE.

Yeah..Knox wouldn't hurt a spider. Funny thing that. Jodi Arias said exactly the same thing. I guess spiders are more precious than people.

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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
BTW, Aranavachi, really love your avatar!


Thanks Ergon!!! hugz-)
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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi Stefan! :)
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox has hijacked Al Jazeera's Free Journalists In Syria campaign by posting a photo holding up a sign "Siamo Innocenti" (We are innocent), in the same style as used by Al Jazeera.

This has led to a major backlash on Twitter where people ridiculed her message by photoshopping the message and substituting it through other, more fitting ones.

Amanda Knox faces backlash for Twitter 'innocent' selfie


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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

brilliant thanks for that Nell!
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

My pleasure!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I encourage you all to browse through the Twitter messages, there are some really funny ones.

Like this one:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

For those of you who don't have Photoshop or a similar program, there is a website that allows you to add your own personalised PR message to Amanda Knox's cardboard.

Just for fun: Imgflip.com - Meme Generator
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

One of the parody pictures has ended up as "Image of the Day" on the front page of TEK Journalism UK.


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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm always baffled when reading about Amanda Knox and her supposed high intelligence. All of her words - whether they are written or spoken in preset interviews it always sounds the same to me.


Quote:
It has been claimed that, in this most recent round of closing arguments and in interviews since the latest guilty verdict, Raffaele and his defense attorneys have finally betrayed their resentment and started to put distance between him and me legally and personally.

Has it really been claimed or is she just trying to hold on to that picture of the two innocent lovers, while desperately asking RS to stay loyal to her? She knows, that he is going to throw her under the bus, especially if he ends up in prison and she will be fighting extradition. They aren't in the same situation anymore.


Quote:
This is not the case. Actually, Attorney Bongiorno’s closing arguments and Raffaele’s latest statements pinpoint and attack a fundamental weakness in the prosecution’s case against both Raffaele and me that has been ignored for far too long: Raffaele is not a slave.

What is this about? First she sounds like an observer - which in fact she kind of is as she chose not to travel to the hearings. Then she speaks about this "fundamental weakness in the prosecution’s case against both Raffaele and me" - is it or is Bongiorno trying to save her client by stating he has been mistreated and faced with prejudices? Also, why would you call him a slave - I haven't read that in the media? Again, very smart.


Quote:
The prosecution’s case relies upon the idea that the brutal murder of Meredith Kercher hinges upon me: that only I could have facilitated access to her; that only I could have had motive to instigate the assault and plunge in the knife. As for Raffaele, because he had only just met Meredith and had never met Rudy Guede, the prosecution tried to depict him as both predisposed to violent sexual fetish and absolutely subservient to a dominant female companion. They cited his habit of carrying a pocketknife (which did not correspond with Meredith’s stab wounds), his Japanese comic book collection (which included girl-power Sailor Moon), an incident at school when he was caught viewing porn, and the one Marilyn Manson song on his computer. Because he was present and supportive of me in the immediacy of the discovery of the murder and because my surviving roommates had described us as piccioncini (“lovebirds”—a far cry from the dominatrix/slave), the prosecution assumed and pursued the theory of Raffaele’s unquestioning devotion/obsession with me.

This sounds like her "charming" attempt to play down the "evidence" on him, trying to lure him back into her den. She's trying to make it her case, but I think this makes him look even more like a "slave" or a puppet in her hands. I don't think these words do her any good.


Quote:
The prosecution has sustained this theory for years even when, to begin with, they had even less of an objective case against Raffaele than against me. An unreliable trace of Raffaele’s DNA on Meredith’s bra clasp. A partial bloody footprint on a bathmat that more closely corresponds with Rudy Guede’s footprints. The unreliable testimony of a homeless, heroin-using serial witness who claims to have seen Raffaele and I in Piazza Grimana between 9-11:30 p.m. the night of the murder. That’s it.

Again, it's her case. Of course only these few unreliable pieces of evidence - that's it, really.


Quote:
In a recent email exchange, Raffaele expressed his frustration to me: “I don’t want to be punished for, nor have to continue to justify, those things that regard you and not me. Obviously the evidence demonstrates both of our innocence, but it seems that for the judges and the people this objectivity is of no importance.” The point being that the prosecution’s case is founded upon unreliable and irrelevant circumstantial evidence that furthermore has nothing to do with Raffaele at all. As tenuous as the case is against me, it is illogical and unfair that Raffaele should be held legally answerable for it. No judicial panel in their right mind can determine guilt beyond a reasonable doubt for Raffaele based on the objective evidence specifically related to him that the prosecution presented in court.

I highly doubt this "email exchange". What is the point in all this, if the evidence obviously demonstrates both of your innocence? This sentence doesn't really sound like the current version of RS.

Also, I'm getting sick of her using that term "circumstantial evidence" - there is rock solid evidence against anyone of these three. The circumstantial evidence is against AK and RS as they delivered false testimonies and still lack any kind of alibi for the night of the murder.

The last two sentences in this quote have to be the dumbest ones - she sounds so innocent, doesn't she?


Quote:
Raffaele’s experience of surviving injustice, documented courageously and honestly in his memoir Honor Bound, has been uniquely traumatic and desperate. Part of that struggle has been having to come to terms with the fact that his judicial system has disregarded him as an individual who is capable of self-determination and owed the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

I wonder when he's going to get a medal for all his courage and honesty? If this whole case wasn't so sad, I would have to laugh about this.


Quote:
Raffaele has plenty of reason for resentment, but not against me. The only reason he has been dragged into this is because he happens to be my alibi. He is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque charicature that is “Foxy Knoxy”.

Well said, Amanda. Raffaele still doesn't have any resentment against you, despite surviving injustice for so long and unlike you, who spent years in prison for calunnia, he was there totally innocent - because he's your slave and will forever be. wor-))


I don't think she will succeed with this desperate attempt. The sad thing is that a lot of her supporters believe these stories and keep insisting on her innocence and some kind of conspiracy against her. I'm getting sick when reading the comment sections on articles about her or on her blog. These uninformed people keep insulting other people and accuse them of not being informed about the real facts, while they are - talk about ignorance. I despise Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito so much for what they are doing right now, especially AK for repeatedly insulting the Kercher family. They should be put into prison until the final Supreme Court results are there to avoid any further insults.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hello Schdiwi and a (belated) welcome to the forum!

I believe Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are now separated by reality. She can still hope, he cannot. His passport has been taken and should the Supreme Court confirm the conviction - which I am convinced of - then he can only try to buy false teeth, a beard and a wig and try to flee.

They have nothing in common anymore and Knox doesn't seem to understand that fully, because she is still "fighting" for her freedom. At this point I don't believe Sollecito deludes himself about his prospects.

He knows prison is only a question of time for him while Knox still has the hope she might win her extradition battle.

As a last resort, Sollecito has tried to separate himself from Knox. Too little, too late, but in his situation probably worth a try.

She should be very scared. There is still the hearing before the Supreme Court.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

BBC Three Orders Amanda Knox Docu From NBC News’ Peacock Productions
Wednesday February 12, 2014

BBC Three has ordered a docu on the Amanda Knox case update from NBC News’ Peacock Productions — Peacock Prods’ first UK commission out of its new London office. Peacock predicts its one-hour special, Is Amanda Knox Guilty? will be the first TV docu on the case since an Italian judge announced the second guilty verdict on January 30 — it’s scheduled to air on BBC Three on Monday, February 17.

The film is produced in association with filmmakers and journalists Paul Russell and Andrea Vogt, who followed the Meredith Kercher murder case from its beginning in November of 2007 and who produced a feature length documentary on the case. The update features exclusive interviews with Stephanie and Lyle Kercher, Meredith’s brother and sister; as well as defense lawyers and experts from both the defense and the prosecution.


DEADLINE HOLLYWOOD

ETA: It screens on Monday, February 17 at 9pm on BBC Three.

Attachment:
Is Amanda Knox Guilty.JPG

BBC

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito's comment on Knox's "selfie":

Sollecito, living hell because there's no hope
" Photo of Amanda ? No surprise, [I] always said " 'we' are innocent "

"I'm living in hell that I do not wish on anyone, to be accused without proof ": Raffaele Sollecito describes his state of mind. He does this by commenting on the ANSA photo of Amanda Knox holding a sign that says " We are innocent." "No surprises - Sollecito says - because he has always said that " 'we' are innocent ."

The lawyer Luca Maori, turns instead to Rudy Guede: "Say finally that Raffaele was not there, and avoid the risk that an innocent person could end up in jail."


ANSA
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Offline BugsBunny


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker here. I notice on PMF.org and TJFMK that a lot of people seem to think that Sollecito but more Guede will be likely to confess and give the Kerchers the truth at last. I don't think this will ever happen. How do you acknowledge your involvement in such a heinous crime and articulate a confession but still come off as an "ok person"? Does Guede say "I just raped her but the other two tortured her with knives 53? times and then stabbed her in the kneck". Does Sollecito say "I just tortured her with knives while Guede raped her and then Amanda stabbed her in the throat"? There is no way any of these three will ever admit to anything.
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Offline Stefan


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Sollecito's comment on Knox's "selfie":

Sollecito, living hell because there's no hope
" Photo of Amanda ? No surprise, [I] always said " 'we' are innocent "

"I'm living in hell that I do not wish on anyone, to be accused without proof ": Raffaele Sollecito describes his state of mind. He does this by commenting on the ANSA photo of Amanda Knox holding a sign that says " We are innocent." "No surprises - Sollecito says - because he has always said that " 'we' are innocent ."

The lawyer Luca Maori, turns instead to Rudy Guede: "Say finally that Raffaele was not there, and avoid the risk that an innocent person could end up in jail."


ANSA

He really is stupid, he starts his own media campaign - which was, now looking at it, probably inspired by his lawyers - and after AK posts that picture he returns to them being in this together? The whole point in all his actions should have been to create that gap between them to make room for any possibilty of separating their cases in front of the supreme court, but he obviously doesn't get this. This was his last resort as Nell mentioned.

What is your take on Rudy Guede? I always thought he would come up with the truth at some point after his release, but after reading his latest statement I'm more inclined to believe that he actually wishes not to talk about it anymore. The only chance of him coming out on this one would be if the lawyers of AK and RS keep pointing the finger at him as he probably doesn't want to live as being THE murderer of Meredith Kercher. But I doubt that, there is no reward for him mentioning his actions that night after serving his sentence.

What is the legal position for Sollecito anyways? He could be facing a smaller time if confessing on participation, but Knox being the driving force in this murder - or am I wrong? In my opinion this could be the only chance of someone confessing on this crime, but this probably won't be the truth.

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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, BugsBunny, and welcome to the forum. We do have a variety of opinions on Rudy Guede on the various fora but I personally believe he will only do what is right for Rudy Guede. At this point, it is in his best interests to keep his mouth shut, and long term, keep a very low profile (which advice, no one ever seemed to have given to the two lovebirds, not that they were listening, and for which we can all be very, very, grateful ;)

But one thing I have learned to expect in this case, the unexpected. He has a mountain of a grudge to carry around, and if they P him O, he tends to say, or write something. But a full confession? No.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Schdiwi wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Sollecito's comment on Knox's "selfie":

Sollecito, living hell because there's no hope
" Photo of Amanda ? No surprise, [I] always said " 'we' are innocent "

"I'm living in hell that I do not wish on anyone, to be accused without proof ": Raffaele Sollecito describes his state of mind. He does this by commenting on the ANSA photo of Amanda Knox holding a sign that says " We are innocent." "No surprises - Sollecito says - because he has always said that " 'we' are innocent ."

The lawyer Luca Maori, turns instead to Rudy Guede: "Say finally that Raffaele was not there, and avoid the risk that an innocent person could end up in jail."


ANSA

He really is stupid, he starts his own media campaign - which was, now looking at it, probably inspired by his lawyers - and after AK posts that picture he returns to them being in this together? The whole point in all his actions should have been to create that gap between them to make room for any possibilty of separating their cases in front of the supreme court, but he obviously doesn't get this. This was his last resort as Nell mentioned.

What is your take on Rudy Guede? I always thought he would come up with the truth at some point after his release, but after reading his latest statement I'm more inclined to believe that he actually wishes not to talk about it anymore. The only chance of him coming out on this one would be if the lawyers of AK and RS keep pointing the finger at him as he probably doesn't want to live as being THE murderer of Meredith Kercher. But I doubt that, there is no reward for him mentioning his actions that night after serving his sentence.

What is the legal position for Sollecito anyways? He could be facing a smaller time if confessing on participation, but Knox being the driving force in this murder - or am I wrong? In my opinion this could be the only chance of someone confessing on this crime, but this probably won't be the truth.


I agree, he does not wish to talk about it any more. He also is aware how RS and AK, or their media campaigns anyway, are desperate like, pointing at him as the sole killer which always bring him out fighting, and so, I am open to and expect further surprises in this very surprising case.

My reads of their psychology are they all, in their own way, accepting this is the end for them. RS is the most vulnerable, since he will be in jail soonest. He should have come clean before Judge Nencini, which ws his last chance to get a reduction in his sentence, by throwing Amanda under the bus. A full confession, contrition, sure, some in the jury were leaning towards mitigation for him. But he is stuck in this persona, after all the scarifices his family made for him, to admit he lied? Some suggest also that their respective publishers can sue to get their advances back, should they admit to lying in their books. Plus the groupies will turn on him, and he was hypnotized by their adulation.

It is too late now. Confirmation from cassation, and Amanda Knox, is increasingly, isolated. At this point, all her lies about Raffaele not being mad at her? I believe Kelsey Kay, who said he IS.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

BugsBunny wrote:
Hi everyone,

Long time lurker here. I notice on PMF.org and TJFMK that a lot of people seem to think that Sollecito but more Guede will be likely to confess and give the Kerchers the truth at last. I don't think this will ever happen. How do you acknowledge your involvement in such a heinous crime and articulate a confession but still come off as an "ok person"? Does Guede say "I just raped her but the other two tortured her with knives 53? times and then stabbed her in the kneck". Does Sollecito say "I just tortured her with knives while Guede raped her and then Amanda stabbed her in the throat"? There is no way any of these three will ever admit to anything.


Hello BugsBunny and welcome to the forum!

I share your opinion. I do not believe any of them will confess to anything. What might happen is that they start pointing fingers which will not be beneficial for any of them.

Especially the rivalry between Raffaelee Sollecito and Amanda Knox strikes me as dangerous for both of them. Add to that that neither of them is really bright.

There will never be a confession out of remorse or repentance because none of them feels they've done much wrong. Apparently all of them feel that they are being treated overly harsh for the murder they have committed and they cannot wait until people get finally "over" the whole murder thing, so they can move on with their own lives.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
BBC Three Orders Amanda Knox Docu From NBC News’ Peacock Productions
Wednesday February 12, 2014

BBC Three has ordered a docu on the Amanda Knox case update from NBC News’ Peacock Productions — Peacock Prods’ first UK commission out of its new London office. Peacock predicts its one-hour special, Is Amanda Knox Guilty? will be the first TV docu on the case since an Italian judge announced the second guilty verdict on January 30 — it’s scheduled to air on BBC Three on Monday, February 17.

The film is produced in association with filmmakers and journalists Paul Russell and Andrea Vogt, who followed the Meredith Kercher murder case from its beginning in November of 2007 and who produced a feature length documentary on the case. The update features exclusive interviews with Stephanie and Lyle Kercher, Meredith’s brother and sister; as well as defense lawyers and experts from both the defense and the prosecution.


DEADLINE HOLLYWOOD

ETA: It screens on Monday, February 17 at 9pm on BBC Three.

Attachment:
Is Amanda Knox Guilty.JPG

BBC

The preview clip doesn't work for me...


I think the clip will be coming on later, guermantes. Paul Russell is the author of Darkness Descending, of course, and that the Kerchers have cooperated with the producers is wonderful news! Looking forward to seeing it, and the media to finally, get it right.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

What is it about Raffles and Knox?? In his latest..thanks G...

Raffles says : To be accused..WITHOUT PROOF. How about we DIDN"T murder meredith? It seems very difficult..nigh impossible for them to utter those words.

Welcome Bugs.

Thanks Nell..for those photos. Good to see others are not fooled. Raffles got the message, I see. Perhaps he was pleased that he got a plug for his book. ( I didn't read it, but presumably in the book..he was all for Knox..and she's reminding him of it.)

For me....The fact that he now says..We are innocent..only shows that he had to be reminded to stick together, and not what HE really feels.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

We could lay odds on this. :) I believe once Rudy is out of prison..and safe..he WILL tell all. Either in a book..or for some big Bucks.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Rudy will actually be in the Pound Seat. What would Raffles and Knox's attorneys give for Rudy to say they weren't there? So Luca already sends out a plea.

Nope. Too late..no matter what Rudy says. Raffles had his shot..and missed.

However...when Rudy is free...we shall see what goes down. He is very resentful and angry . Say what you will...in view of what went down..his attorney made the right call.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
I encourage you all to browse through the Twitter messages, there are some really funny ones.


Thanks Nell, some of them are really funny. Have a look at the latest additions to the photo gallery: PHOTO GALLERY

My two favorite pics :)

Attachment:
AK and Berlusconi innocenti.jpg


Attachment:
RS Honor Bound.jpg


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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Zorba, dear!! Good to see you. Just back myself after 4 days of no electric. Can you say COLD? Thankfully holed up in a hotel with a crew of grandpuppies and an 88 year old father who spent most of his time reading all of the fixtures to see if they were "Made in America". They weren't. God help me.

It's going to take a bit of time to catch up here. I'll be back.


Best wishes, dear Napia.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
I encourage you all to browse through the Twitter messages, there are some really funny ones.

Like this one:


Destined to be one of the top 10. Comedy gold.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:58 am   Post subject: Dexter   

If you want to use this on twitter, Nell, g'head:

Image
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Well done Jackie. It looks great.

Here are a few I like:


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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

There is another very cool one where they photoshopped the picture to add a sombrero and the message reads "ECUADOR". Love it. I don't have it handy right now.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jackie -I loved it so much I posted it without your permission. Sorry. I did acknowledge you, though!
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