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XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:

The outer shutters had to first be opened, and not by a rock; perhaps with a butter knife. This means that the culprit creeped down the stairs to the downstairs apartment, went around the corner and scaled the wall under Filomena's bedroom in the middle of the night in order to open the shutters. After the shutters were open, Guede found a good nine pound rock, went back up to the parking lot, and perch himself perfectly over the fence at the parking lot, and hurl a rock through the right side of the window, hit the shutter at 45 degrees, the rock rebounded under the desk (or into the bag, same thing). The glass could not have continued past the shutter towards the door if the shutter was only open 45 degrees ... the glass hit the shutter before the rock hit the shutter ... the shutter was opening after it was hit by the glass, but the max it was open when the rock deflected 90 degrees is 45 degrees.

It's impossible that the glass and rock landed as found, and the rock was thrown from the outside, in my humble opinion.



Yessa, I think the burglar thought, hey that window's too much, and then went around to the front door and let herself in with her key.


That does appear to be what happened.

The Guede alone story, when fully flushed, becomes absurd. Why would he walk past the unoccupied lower flat to scale a wall to only open a shutter, when there was clear and easy access over the balcony, as he had done in the past.



For a moment I thought the amateur dramatist BonG was going to have at it with her hammers and tongs but I think everyone is going to be spared that.

Andrea made a hash tag, "#onlyinitaly" pointing out the oddity of the defendant drinking coffee at the mini coffee spot in court somewhere with his accusers.
That is indeed strange.
I'm not sure that is the done thing elsewhere after all, those in court up on charges, are potentially dangerous, just because it is court doesn't mean it's a surety that anyone involved as a defendant will not go apeshit, in British courts many supporters get violently out of order, especially of course when the ruling goes against their family member/buddy.
Must be a number of police posted around.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini: alleged small wounds on Guede's hand, inconsistent with absence of his blood on scene


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Guede knew the hous and apartments, would have chosen logical entries and logical behaviour, Crini calls burglary theory 'not credible'

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Bathmat print: compatibility assessment can be done on what is measurable

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Link to posts on previous page: viewtopic.php?p=117150#p117150
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 28s
Meredith trial, the prosecutor Crini carries out his indictment reaffirming the validity of the evidence
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini says defence arguments on bathmat print are conjectures. Rinaldi is actually same person who correctly attributed shoeprint

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini wil deal with Maori's "theory of alibi" only very briefly

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Maori omits to quote pices of Curatolo's testimony.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Correction Mach's typos

Not hous but house


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Guede knew the house and apartments, would have chosen logical entries and logical behaviour, Crini calls burglary theory 'not credible'


Correction pieces not pices

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Maori omits to quote pieces of Curatolo's testimony.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini cites arguments about computer expert reports, hearings of 14 Mar 2009 and Dec 2010 say further investigation is unnecessary

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini: report say had there ben an internet surfing or writing activity, this would have resulted as obvious.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 22s
Meredith process, the pg Crini: "On the [crime] scene there was no contamination"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini is pleased the defence did not attempt to allege laboratory DNA contamination. Points out findings by Novelli

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Disproves Bongiorno's allegation that the clasp was stepped over.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Novelli rules out there was contamination in laboratory, as well as tertiary transfer in situ.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

New TJMK post: http://t.co/X0CT0o2Mps

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Correction typo Machi been not ben


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini: report say had there been an internet surfing or writing activity, this would have resulted as obvious. [Zorba: if there had been internet activity this would have been clearly evident or as Knox would say "e pacifico"]

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Calls "embarassing" Bongiorno when alleges the police was wrong in attributing stains to cat's blood

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Objections referred to Low Copy Number are obsolete, and also partly undermined by the RIS report

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Tagliabracci in 2008 objected to quotes of prof. Gill calling them "too recent"

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini says let's look at the Conti-Vecchiotti report, to see what it says, if you can subscribe with the report.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Points out a passage where Vecchiotti's report misquotes police findings inserting the word "only", built a strawman

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau @BLNadeau
Prosecutor in new #AmandaKnox appeal says motive in murder is never simple and clear, like murder itself is complex.


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Calls Vecchiotti's reasoning on bra clasp "a priori", dismissed for reasons totally general and vague. Doesn't read Y haplot. and X together

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
The same defence experts did not object to the attribution Y haplotype of Guede found in the victim's vagina


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Vecchiotti admitted there was a scratch on the blade

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
All alleles of the victim were found in a scratch on the knife blade. Human DNA is normally not on knife blades


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
The dynamic of the crime. Maori attributed all traces to Rudy Gede alone


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
The defences also dealt thoroughly with the use of the knife, wounds, blade size

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau @BLNadeau
#sollecito staring at prosecutor as he delivers rebuttal, jury taking notes, judge listening intently, journalists trying to stay awake.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Bongiorno called the murder scene "flooded" with Guede's DNA. Crini points out his traces in room indicating he had free hands (no weapon)


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Knox defence: says when Guede leaves palm print on pillowcase leaves a signature

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Massei court did not decide about attribution of pillowcase shoeprints, Crini objects Vinci's finding, thinks prints are too small

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau @BLNadeau
#sollecito just told group of reporters he was not sure if he would come for verdict.


So he'll be following it from the beach?


He'll be following from the beach in the Dominican Republic, where he has established residence over the past year.

Separating the defendants was clear with Bongiorno. She emphasized that Sollecito is not Knox's side kick, that police had tunnel vision, that Knox's translator was faulty, and that it was a railroading prosecution. She also stated that Sollecito was not mentioned in any of the incriminating statements made by Knox, implying that he was not part of her murder scenario.


I agree with your observation, but in my opinion it is a very weak defence. They probably hope for reasonable doubt and that the court decides he was just an accessory after the fact.

His footprint made in the victim's blood is on the bathmat, other cleaned footprints in the hallway, his DNA on Meredith's bra clasp.

He had legal counsel and more than six years to think about it. His callousness and remorselessness speaks for itself. He is a murderer, not someone who helped his one-week girlfriend clean up a murder out of love.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau @BLNadeau
#sollecito just told group of reporters he was not sure if he would come for verdict.


So he'll be following it from the beach?


He'll be following from the beach in the Dominican Republic, where he has established residence over the past year.

Separating the defendants was clear with Bongiorno. She emphasized that Sollecito is not Knox's side kick, that police had tunnel vision, that Knox's translator was faulty, and that it was a railroading prosecution. She also stated that Sollecito was not mentioned in any of the incriminating statements made by Knox, implying that he was not part of her murder scenario.


I agree with your observation, but in my opinion it is a very weak defence. They probably hope for reasonable doubt and that the court decides he was just an accessory after the fact.

His footprint made in the victim's blood is on the bathmat, other cleaned footprints in the hallway, his DNA on Meredith's bra clasp.

He had legal counsel and more than six years to think about it. His callousness and remorselessness speaks for itself. He is a murderer, not someone who helped his one-week girlfriend clean up a murder out of love.


Well said Nell

That is what he IS

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini: no defence wounds, no fight bruises, nothing under nails, bruises indicate forced restraint of victim; how she was immobilized

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
The "double knife theory" is based on the small size of the right wound, experts point to a likely much smaller knife with thin blade

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini: thinking you can preemptively deduce the size of the blade from bed sheet stain is 'unrealistic'


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
The blade hypothesized by defence from the bed sheet stain is anyway larger; these are anyway conjectures. Datum is compatibility


Barbie Latza Nadeau @BLNadeau
Prosecutor focused on knife, says traces of #MeredithKercher and #AmandaKnox are valid.


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini: it is difficult to produce an 8x8 cm large wound with a small 8cm long knife, it would produce at best a wound with irregular margin

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
To the court: can you imagine a 'surgical operation' with small knife producing a wound with clear margins on a live struggling victim?


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
It makes no sense to say the large kitchen knife is 'incompatible' with big wound.


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Some thoughts about motive.


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini calls 'amusing' Bongiorno comparing himself with captain Schettino

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raffaele Sollecito: “Aspetterò la sentenza in Italia”. E Amanda Knox invece…
Pubblicato il 20 gennaio 2014 13.09 | Ultimo aggiornamento: 20 gennaio 2014 13.09
http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/cronaca-i ... e-1771519/

(googletrans)

"I'll be in Italy - Sollecito told reporters - I have not decided if I'm in the courtroom in Florence or if I'll stay in Bari, it depends on organizational contingencies."

And Amanda Knox?
"Amanda is confident that the Court proclaims her innocence. She cannot wait to end the nightmare," said lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova, one of the defenders of Amanda Knox in court today: "Amanda has a normal life as a student - he added - and follows the process step by step."


Last edited by Ava on Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini: Bongiorno called all English girls 'unreliable' (because English, maybe coached by lawyers etc.)


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini: if you need to prove a crime, it is opportune to detect a motive, but a motive is only a plausible conjecture not basis for deduction

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau @BLNadeau
#sollecito staring at prosecutor as he delivers rebuttal, jury taking notes, judge listening intently, journalists trying to stay awake.


Sollecito can feel that his ship is sinking fast. Brillant and detailed rebuttal by Crini.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Movite cannot be assessed preliminarily as if it was a piece of evidence to be discussed

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 31s
Meredith process, the pg Crini: "The absence of motive is not a defensive proof"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Massive rejection of English testimonies is "weak" on the part of defence; tensions and dislikes in the house are recorded on paper


Andrea Vogt @andreavogt
Prosecutor Crini: a lack of motive does not equal proof of innocence. #amandaknox


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Argument about cleaning was also reported by Meredith to her father John Kercher

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Meredith process, the pg Crini: "There were tensions in the house over questions of hygiene"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
The eccessive and too quick reaction to a situation of rising argument is typical of group reaction.


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Bongiorno had pointed out that anyway Sollecito should be accounted only for what he had done (implicit: not what Knox did)


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini points out the crime and motive originate from group dynamic.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This is great:

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 1m
Meredith process, the pg Crini: "Convict Sollecito and Knox and decide on precautionary measures to ensure execution of the sentence"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini says his conclusions are unchanged. He adds: prosecution suggests arrest decrees are issued immediately if defendant(s) is(are) guilty


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Nencini asks the clerk's officer to write down formally the exact terms of prosecution request to issue cautionary measures


Andrea Vogt @andreavogt
Prosecutor asks (in case of conviction) cautionary measures so defendants can't flee. Options are: passport, house arrest or arrest.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

About fecking time!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
This is great:

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 1m
Meredith process, the pg Crini: "Convict Sollecito and Knox and decide on precautionary measures to ensure execution of the sentence"


Great, it is what I have been saying for ages, that Sollecito needs picking up, he is making a mockery of the law.

And once he is inside, you just wait and see how fast he caves in and tries to lever himself up by telling on KNOX

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Crini says his conclusions are unchanged. He adds: prosecution suggests arrest decrees are issued immediately if defendant(s) is(are) guilty


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Nencini asks the clerk's officer to write down formally the exact terms of prosecution request to issue cautionary measures


Sollecito must be shaking in his boots right now. I wish I you could see his face when he realizes what that means. He needs to be shaken out of his smugness once and for all.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes, only problem is he's able to leave the country before Jan 30. These requested measures are only in the event of a conviction. Sollecito has time until then.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So what now? Another break? Lunchtime?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Either that, or they've lost Internet connection from the court room. It looks like it's on and off.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Yes, only problem is he's able to leave the country before Jan 30. These requested measures are only in the event of a conviction. Sollecito has time until then.


Maybe Michael, but that has not been articulated, exactly.

Arrest on guilty finding but measures means maybe they are going to require he either be put under house arrest or will not be allowed to leave the country.
How they will monitor that is another matter, I'm thinking he is going to be off tonight, dad or no dad. He will not even tell his dad if need be.
I think his dad will not mind seeing his son go as he has shown he too is dishonest and he will not want to see his son paying for what he did, he will prefer to be able to visit him in the Caribbean.

We will need to wait to hear what the terms involve.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Yes, only problem is he's able to leave the country before Jan 30. These requested measures are only in the event of a conviction. Sollecito has time until then.

True. Wouldn't look too good though. Go in hiding just before the verdict. Prosecutor is totally right of course. Those 'fun' DR trips didn't go unnoticed. Thanks to RS himself and that weird magazine Oggi.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I don't think he cares how things look. If he cared about that, he wouldn't have made visits to the SD or Meredith's grave already. Anyway, he's got Dady to do the PR at home for him and clean up the mess.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So what about Knox? Can they request extradition before the SC confirms?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Okay, and what about such measures and Amanda?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
So what about Knox? Can they request extradition before the SC confirms?


Yes, they can, but they'll probably wait until after High Court. May issue warrant for arrest though (not the same as extradition request). That will stop her being able to travel anywhere.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
max wrote:
So what about Knox? Can they request extradition before the SC confirms?


Yes, they can, but they'll probably wait until after High Court. May issue warrant for arrest though (not the same as extradition request). That will stop her being able to travel anywhere.



I'm not sure they will wait at all.

Why wait. Once it is placed then anything later is just a formality, and nobody can say they treated him differently to her.

My guess is the arrest warranting will apply to both, equally.

That way it is made crystal clear that they mean business with her too.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 31m
Prosecutor asks (in case of conviction) cautionary measures so defendants can't flee. Options are: passport, house arrest or arrest.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Court back in session after coffee break.
Yummi, BLNadeau, Andrea Vogt all tweeting.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just to say, people should not confuse an "arrest order" with an "extradition order", they are two completely different things. Crini here, has only requested arrest orders.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm not confusing, speaking for me then of course, arrest warrant is arrest warrant, he gets one, she gets one.
That way it's clear she is wanted.

Then things stay on a level playing field, no space for Knox's mentalists to make any more strange claims

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Zorba wrote:
I'm not confusing, speaking for me then of course, arrest warrant is arrest warrant, he gets one, she gets one.
That way it's clear she is wanted.


Yes, they would be issued to both. MY point was, that this does not also mean an extradition order will also be issued at the same time and that they are different things. This was for the benefit of the general readership, as I've seen in certain places there's currently some confusion on this matter.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Court back in session after coffee break.
Yummi, BLNadeau, Andrea Vogt all tweeting.


I don't see any new tweets.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I think he means they are all tweeting from the court "today".

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

From Yummi:

Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Sorry, I need to be back to work this afternoon! Can't remain here.

So, we'll be a Tweeter down.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Zorba wrote:
I'm not confusing, speaking for me then of course, arrest warrant is arrest warrant, he gets one, she gets one.
That way it's clear she is wanted.


Yes, they would be issued to both. MY point was, that this does not also mean an extradition order will also be issued at the same time and that they are different things. This was for the benefit of the general readership, as I've seen in certain places there's currently some confusion on this matter.



Right, good to make as much absolutely clear as possible, because so much misuse has been made of just anything that possibly could be made misuse of.

I'm very pleased at least some moves are being made to put a halt to Sollecito's game playing.

I cannot make out why all the Tweets have stopped
Have little experience so do not know if that too sometimes messes up

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

No new tweets. It will be lunch now. Machiavelli has to leave for the day.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Italian court hears final rebuttals in Knox trial
Jan. 20, 2014 6:01 AM EST



AP

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Oh yeah forgot they are human, and Italian, mangiare

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau @BLNadeau
Court back in session with #lumumba lawyer up. #sollecito back in court after break.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione video:

Arrival of Sollecito Sr. this morning

QUOTIDIANO.NET
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Raffaele Sollecito: “Aspetterò la sentenza in Italia”. E Amanda Knox invece…
Pubblicato il 20 gennaio 2014 13.09 | Ultimo aggiornamento: 20 gennaio 2014 13.09
http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/cronaca-i ... e-1771519/

(googletrans)

"I'll be in Italy - Sollecito told reporters - I have not decided if I'm in the courtroom in Florence or if I'll stay in Bari, it depends on organizational contingencies."

And Amanda Knox?
"Amanda is confident that the Court proclaims her innocence. She cannot wait to end the nightmare," said lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova, one of the defenders of Amanda Knox in court today: "Amanda has a normal life as a student - he added - and follows the process step by step."


Well good he points that out. I had only Knox's email as a reference and it reads as follows:

I am not present in the courtroom because I am afraid. I am afraid that the prosecution's vehemence will leave an impression on you, that their smoke and mirrors will blind you.

Amanda Knox has also said in a recent interview that Raffaele Sollecito was more confident regarding the imminent verdict than she is. That doesn't sound encouraging at all, if you ask me.

The fact she is hiding in the US, refusing to attend her own appeal and defensively stating she will fight any possible extradition request make Dalla Vedova's statements look silly.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 3m
Meredith process, begins rebuttal of lawyer Carlo Pacelli (the plaintiff Lumumba)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau @BLNadeau
#lumumba lawyer says #AmandaKnox substituted Patrick for Rudy Guede.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
max wrote:
So what about Knox? Can they request extradition before the SC confirms?


Yes, they can, but they'll probably wait until after High Court. May issue warrant for arrest though (not the same as extradition request). That will stop her being able to travel anywhere.


Would that mean house arrest or just not leaving the country?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 2m
Process Meredith, lawyer Pacelli (Lumumba): "the defense of Amanda was rancorous and non-existent"
:)

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Process Meredith, lawyer Pacelli (Lumumba): "Amanda slanders Lumumba in order not to be discovered"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 7m
Court back in session with #lumumba lawyer up. #sollecito back in court after break.

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
#lumumba lawyer says #AmandaKnox substituted Patrick for Rudy Guede.

Okay, I'll leave it to you :)


Last edited by Ava on Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Twitter's being an arse and not letting me tweet again...must have hit hourly limit.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Process Meredith, lawyer Pacelli (Lumumba): "Amanda imagines constantly"
:)

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 17s
#Lumumba lawyer calls #amandaknox a "diabolical slanderer"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1 min
#Lumumba lawyer calls #amandaknox a "diabolical slanderer" …
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Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 8 mins
#lumumba lawyer says #AmandaKnox substituted Patrick for Rudy Guede.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
#lumumba keeps referring to #amandaknox as "the American", says she had a penchant for drugs, alcohol, sex.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

#lumumba keeps referring to #amandaknox as "the American", says she had a penchant for drugs, alcohol, sex.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

#lumumba keeps referring to #amandaknox as "the American", says she had a penchant for drugs, alcohol, sex.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 29s
Process Meredith, lawyer Pacelli (Lumumba): "Meredith and Amanda could not stand [each other]"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Okay, guys, I have to rush out for an hour or two. I'll be back as soon as I can.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

See you later Michael I've been meaning to since 9

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 2 mins
Lumumba's atty Pacelli is delivering a vitriolic rebuttal on #amandaknox - mixing his unbridled contempt w/her own statements.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith process, the defense: "That night Raffaele watched a movie, was not at the crime scene." But the prosecution asked for the conviction and recommended to the court: "Do not let Sollecito run away (escape)"
By Roberto Davide Papini

Once more, the father of Raffaele Sollecito, Francesco, reiterated that "my son will not go abroad until this chapter in his life if closed."


LA NAZIONE
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This one is funny


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 38 secs
Judge reprimands #lumumba lawyer for veering off course, he is only to discuss slander aspect of case, not murder itself. #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Raffaele Sollecito: “Aspetterò la sentenza in Italia”. E Amanda Knox invece…
Pubblicato il 20 gennaio 2014 13.09 | Ultimo aggiornamento: 20 gennaio 2014 13.09
http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/cronaca-i ... e-1771519/

(googletrans)

"I'll be in Italy - Sollecito told reporters - I have not decided if I'm in the courtroom in Florence or if I'll stay in Bari, it depends on organizational contingencies."

And Amanda Knox?
"Amanda is confident that the Court proclaims her innocence. She cannot wait to end the nightmare," said lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova, one of the defenders of Amanda Knox in court today: "Amanda has a normal life as a student - he added - and follows the process step by step."


Well good he points that out. I had only Knox's email as a reference and it reads as follows:

I am not present in the courtroom because I am afraid. I am afraid that the prosecution's vehemence will leave an impression on you, that their smoke and mirrors will blind you.

Amanda Knox has also said in a recent interview that Raffaele Sollecito was more confident regarding the imminent verdict than she is. That doesn't sound encouraging at all, if you ask me.

The fact she is hiding in the US, refusing to attend her own appeal and defensively stating she will fight any possible extradition request make Dalla Vedova's statements look silly.


Does anyone even take her seriously any more? There are so many contradictions, people are losing track.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 4m
Presiding Judge Nencini has cut Pacelli's #amandaknox monologue short. Says going off track. Pacelli promises to finish in 5 min.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 5m
Presiding Judge Nencini has cut Pacelli's #amandaknox monologue short. Says going off track. Pacelli promises to finish in 5 min.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 20s
Lumumba atty Pacelli concludes with this phrase to the jury: "Convict liar Amanda, the diabolical slanderer."
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Process Meredith, lawyer Pacelli (Lumumba): "Judges, sentence liar Amanda, the diabolical slanderer"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
#lumumba lawyer says his client has not received any of the €22k he is owed by #amandaknox even though the slander conviction is final.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Okay, I'll stick with La Nazione tweets. Ava and Zorba, you're welcome to post Barbie's and Andrea's.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 41s
Meredith process, begins rebuttal of lawyer Vieri Fabiani, one of the lawyers for the Kercher family, the civil plaintiff
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Omicidio Meredith, Il Pg: "Misure cautelari per Knox e Sollecito in caso di condanna"
http://notizie.tiscali.it/articoli/cron ... ml?cronaca
12 minutes ago

(googletrans)

At the end of the replicas Crini put on record requesting ''the outcome of any judgment of conviction that the Court accompany the same with the application of a precautionary measure'' appropriate ''for both defendants to ensure the enforcement of the judgment once it becomes final.'' Before requesting the pg recalled that Amanda Knox lives in the U.S. and Raffaele Sollecito has made several trips abroad.
The range of measures - should be the prohibition on leaving the country with the withdrawal of the passport, arrest the range of precautionary measures that the Court of Assizes of Appeal could determine if Sollecito is convicted, on the basis of the request made today from the pg.'' I asked - said the magistrate during a break in the hearing - that the measure is necessary to ensure the execution of the sentence. The Court will choose the form, it could also be a simple prohibition for leaving the country.'' When asked if he could explicitly request the arrest, Crini replied: ''I could have, but remember that after the appeal there will be the next review by the Supreme Court.''


Last edited by Ava on Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba, are you still there?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I need to pop out

I think Lumumba's lawyer may be done.

What next?

What should be done is tag Sollecito's leg, and place him under house arrest NOW.

He'll leave, I'm pretty sure he isn't going to submit to 25 years if he does not have to, and as long as they don't grab him while they can, he does not have to.

I wonder abut the DR, do they really act as such a free agent for every crook?

Aren't they yet another greatly Catholic country? If so then I imagine they do not want to upset Italy entirely.

Whether it's a safe place for Italian crooks I don't know, but a safe place for them as opposed to a safe place for a murderer with an extradition order attached to him, I reckon even without a treaty they may cooperate.
Crooks makes one imagine those old-fashioned ideas of a guy with a mask on, a striped suit or one with arrows all over a one-piece, ball n chain about the leg, but murderer is something else.
They have enough murders to deal with themselves already without encouraging foreign murderers to join the club. At least I would think so.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
zorba, are you still there?



A minute still Ava yeah, but need to go see a man about a dog!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Meredith process, rebuttal of the lawyer Perna (Kercher family)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 26s
Kercher lawyers ask court to consider all the previous testimony they say proves more than one person killed #meredithkercher.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sorry this one precedes Ava's one, last post so far is Ava's


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 14 mins
#lumumba lawyer says his client has not received any of the €22k he is owed by #amandaknox even though the slander conviction is final.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Raffaele Sollecito: “Aspetterò la sentenza in Italia”. E Amanda Knox invece…
Pubblicato il 20 gennaio 2014 13.09 | Ultimo aggiornamento: 20 gennaio 2014 13.09
http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/cronaca-i ... e-1771519/

(googletrans)

"I'll be in Italy - Sollecito told reporters - I have not decided if I'm in the courtroom in Florence or if I'll stay in Bari, it depends on organizational contingencies."

And Amanda Knox?
"Amanda is confident that the Court proclaims her innocence. She cannot wait to end the nightmare," said lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova, one of the defenders of Amanda Knox in court today: "Amanda has a normal life as a student - he added - and follows the process step by step."


Well good he points that out. I had only Knox's email as a reference and it reads as follows:

I am not present in the courtroom because I am afraid. I am afraid that the prosecution's vehemence will leave an impression on you, that their smoke and mirrors will blind you.

Amanda Knox has also said in a recent interview that Raffaele Sollecito was more confident regarding the imminent verdict than she is. That doesn't sound encouraging at all, if you ask me.

The fact she is hiding in the US, refusing to attend her own appeal and defensively stating she will fight any possible extradition request make Dalla Vedova's statements look silly.


Does anyone even take her seriously any more? There are so many contradictions, people are losing track.


My comment wasn't targeted at Amanda Knox as much as Carlo Dalla Vedova. His client has obviously lost it. As long as she was hiding behind prison walls it wasn't as obvious, but since she's been released it is impossible to ignore that there is something seriously wrong with her.

I am wondering more about Carlo Dalla Vedova. What about him? He cannot claim to be ignorant about the email he let Judge Nencini read out aloud in court. Coming out saying "she is confident" is absurd after all her interviews proclaiming to be living in fear and with an uncertain future. Either Carlo Dalla Vedova is stupid, or he believes we are.

Why not say "no comment" for a change? Doesn't he care about his reputation? Why not saying "I am confident she will be acquitted"?

To me it looks unprofessional.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
zorba, are you still there?



A minute still Ava yeah, but need to go see a man about a dog!


Are you buying a dog or am I missing a joke?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 53s
Meredith process, lawyer Perna (Kercher) "Wounds on victim's body compatible with the knife found at Sollecito's house"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 5m
Fabbiani, atty for Meredith's brother, urges court to look beyond motive. Perna for her sister: one person alone did not kill Meredith.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
zorba, are you still there?



A minute still Ava yeah, but need to go see a man about a dog!


Are you buying a dog or am I missing a joke?


Haha wondered if I should explain it as it may be less well known these days, but it is a funny way of saying I have something to see about, without telling anyone what it is. When in fact, you may only be popping out to the shops, as I am.

Hahaha.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 27s
Meredith process, speaks the lawyer Francesco Maresca (Kercher family)

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 33s
Process Meredith, lawyer Maresca (Kercher): "On appeal the acquittal was announced as judgment"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 11 mins
Fabbiani, atty for Meredith's brother, urges court to look beyond motive. Perna for her sister: one person alone did not kill Meredith.



Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 29 mins
Lumumba atty Pacelli concludes with this phrase to the jury: "Convict liar Amanda, the diabolical slanderer."

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
zorba, are you still there?



A minute still Ava yeah, but need to go see a man about a dog!


Are you buying a dog or am I missing a joke?


Haha wondered if I should explain it as it may be less well known these days, but it is a funny way of saying I have something to see about, without telling anyone what it is. When in fact, you may only be popping out to the shops, as I am.

Hahaha.


:oops:
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 11 mins
Fabbiani, atty for Meredith's brother, urges court to look beyond motive. Perna for her sister: one person alone did not kill Meredith.

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 29 mins
Lumumba atty Pacelli concludes with this phrase to the jury: "Convict liar Amanda, the diabolical slanderer."


All these tweets have been posted already (upthread.) You're lagging behind. nnn-)) :)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m
Kercher atty Maresca: Perugians reacted angrily to #amandaknox acquittal because it was scandalous: acquittal was decided in advance.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 26s
Kercher lawyers ask court to consider all the previous testimony they say proves more than one person killed #meredithkercher.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Raffaele Sollecito: “Aspetterò la sentenza in Italia”. E Amanda Knox invece…
Pubblicato il 20 gennaio 2014 13.09 | Ultimo aggiornamento: 20 gennaio 2014 13.09
http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/cronaca-i ... e-1771519/

(googletrans)

"I'll be in Italy - Sollecito told reporters - I have not decided if I'm in the courtroom in Florence or if I'll stay in Bari, it depends on organizational contingencies."

And Amanda Knox?
"Amanda is confident that the Court proclaims her innocence. She cannot wait to end the nightmare," said lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova, one of the defenders of Amanda Knox in court today: "Amanda has a normal life as a student - he added - and follows the process step by step."


Well good he points that out. I had only Knox's email as a reference and it reads as follows:

I am not present in the courtroom because I am afraid. I am afraid that the prosecution's vehemence will leave an impression on you, that their smoke and mirrors will blind you.

Amanda Knox has also said in a recent interview that Raffaele Sollecito was more confident regarding the imminent verdict than she is. That doesn't sound encouraging at all, if you ask me.

The fact she is hiding in the US, refusing to attend her own appeal and defensively stating she will fight any possible extradition request make Dalla Vedova's statements look silly.


Does anyone even take her seriously any more? There are so many contradictions, people are losing track.


My comment wasn't targeted at Amanda Knox as much as Carlo Dalla Vedova. His client has obviously lost it. As long as she was hiding behind prison walls it wasn't as obvious, but since she's been released it is impossible to ignore that there is something seriously wrong with her.

I am wondering more about Carlo Dalla Vedova. What about him? He cannot claim to be ignorant about the email he let Judge Nencini read out aloud in court. Coming out saying "she is confident" is absurd after all her interviews proclaiming to be living in fear and with an uncertain future. Either Carlo Dalla Vedova is stupid, or he believes we are.

Why not say "no comment" for a change? Doesn't he care about his reputation? Why not saying "I am confident she will be acquitted"?

To me it looks unprofessional.


You're right. He allows her to make him look silly. Maybe he thinks saying something, no matter what, is still better than 'no comment'.
I don't know. What do you do with a client like her?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 4m
Process Meredith, lawyer Maresca (Kercher): "On the blade there are traces of the victim"

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 37s
Meredith process, it's up to the defense Sollecito begin rebuttals

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 25s
Meredith process, rebuttal of the Sollecito defense: "There was no misdirection [sidetracking] declaratively by Sollecito"
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Kercher lawyers finished, now #sollecito lawyers up for rebuttal, but both his principal lawyers had to leave early.

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 12s
Six years of Kercher trials and some lawyers still pronounce the K in Knox.. "ka-nox" as #sollecito's sub lawyer just did.


Last edited by Ava on Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 52s
Maresca: Whatever you decide, we believe justice will be done & all elements considered in depth. We will serenely accept your decision.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 2m
Judge interrupted #Sollecito lawyer with a booming "No!" saying wiretapped convs of Sollecito family not be discussed this trial.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione now
Meredith process, rebuttal of Sollecito defense: "It was Rudy Guede to enter through the window after breaking the glass"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione photo gallery:

Sollecito in aula

http://multimedia.quotidiano.net/?tipo=photo&media=90467#1
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
zorba wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 11 mins
Fabbiani, atty for Meredith's brother, urges court to look beyond motive. Perna for her sister: one person alone did not kill Meredith.

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 29 mins
Lumumba atty Pacelli concludes with this phrase to the jury: "Convict liar Amanda, the diabolical slanderer."


All these tweets have been posted already (upthread.) You're lagging behind. nnn-)) :)


Ah but my ones are special delivery, duo pinotti!!! grrrrr, woof woof ser-) ser-)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 17s
Meredith process, rebuttal Sollecito defense: "Meredith's bra clasp was contaminated as evidence"

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 2m
#Sollecito defense on bra clasp: For us, the condition of the room and conduct of the forensic police tells us there was contamination.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox: Kercher Murder Trial Wrapping Up
The trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher is drawing to a close, with Knox "confident" she will be cleared, her lawyer says.
http://news.sky.com/story/1198016/amand ... rapping-up
2:49pm UK, Monday 20 January 2014

(nice picture of Meredith)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 4m
#sollecito sub lawyer argues no DNA from #meredithkercher on bra clasp w/#sollecito's DNA, failing to mention she was wearing the bra..



It's all well and good making claims but if you have nothing to substantiate then with they are worthless, and that's all Knox and Sollecito's lawyers do, claim stuff and do not set it out without trying to scare the courthouse out of their skins, like Bongiorno did the other day, if she had proper arguments she could have revealed all of them calmly, and made an impression by making them real with details, as she had nothing she had to make a big song and dance.

Dad might as well have tipped his money over a bridge into the river. Bongiorno wasn't a lot different to Knox's fakers. No class at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 35s
Judge especially hard on #sollecito sub lawyer, reprimanding her for introducing new arguments when she is only supposed to be refuting.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox: Kercher Murder Trial Wrapping Up
The trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher is drawing to a close, with Knox "confident" she will be cleared, her lawyer says.
http://news.sky.com/story/1198016/amand ... rapping-up
2:49pm UK, Monday 20 January 2014

(nice picture of Meredith)



Well who cares what she thinks as it is absolutely meaningless.

What a stupid thing for her to say in her position and based on her actions.

She will never learn when to shut up..

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 12s
Meredith process, rebuttal begins by lawyer Colotti (defense Sollecito)

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 55s
Process Meredith, lawyer Colotti (Sollecito): "In the processes [based on] circumstantial evidence, motive is the glue of the whole process"
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 38s
Meredith process, the hearing ends. 30th [more] talks of the Sollecito defense, then the council chamber

No rebuttals from Knox's lawyers???
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 3m
#amandaknox defense will conclude their rebuttals Jan. 30 before the judge and jury go into the deliberating room. Court adjourned.

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 3m
Court adjourned. #AmandaKnox lawyers will give their rebuttal the 30th before deliberations.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Okay, got it: #AmandaKnox lawyers will give their rebuttal the 30th before deliberations
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 38s
Meredith process, the hearing ends. 30th [more] talks of the Sollecito defense, then the council chamber

No rebuttals from Knox's lawyers???


It wouldn't make much difference, since they run over the same old ground and add nothing.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 35s
Judge especially hard on #sollecito sub lawyer, reprimanding her for introducing new arguments when she is only supposed to be refuting.

That is what you get if you let the assistants have the last word.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox: Kercher Murder Trial Wrapping Up
The trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher is drawing to a close, with Knox "confident" she will be cleared, her lawyer says.
http://news.sky.com/story/1198016/amand ... rapping-up
2:49pm UK, Monday 20 January 2014

(nice picture of Meredith)



Well who cares what she thinks as it is absolutely meaningless.

What a stupid thing for her to say in her position and based on her actions.

She will never learn when to shut up..


Maybe she somewhat lost touch with reality a long time ago...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I wish Pacelli wouldn't use such hyperbole...the FOAKers love to wrongly attribute his words to the prosecutor.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Slightly cleaned up Google trans:

Meredith process, the defense: "That night Raffaele watched a movie, was not at the crime scene." But the prosecution asked for the conviction and recommended to the court: "Do not let Sollecito run away (escape)"
By Roberto Davide Papini

Today's hearing saw at the start two and half hours of the intervention of the lawyer Luca Maori ( one of the lawyers for Sollecito ) who closed the pleadings of the defense. Then began rebuttals of all the parties .

The lawyer Maori has traced a series of arguments made by the prosecution against Sollecito, contesting them point by point. " The bloody footprint is not Sollecito’s , as evidenced by the different morphology of the foot of Raffaele ," says Maori in the courtroom showing the footprint in question and superimposing an image of Sollecito's foot . Maori has also insisted that the murder (according to the autopsy findings regarding digestive system of the victim ) would have taken place at 21 and rejected the argument of the simulation of the theft : " The window of Romanelli ( who lived in the house on Via Della Pergola where the murder took place, ed), it was not broken from the inside to simulate a theft, but from the outside as shown by the fact that the broken glass fell inside the room . " According to Maori , then , " the same Romanelli said immediately after the fact that she had not closed the shutters ." In short, for the defense of Sollecito , Rudy Guede is the only murderer ( already sentenced to 16 years in a fast-track trial ) that would come into the house to steal , then would be discovered by Meredith whom he would rape and murder by himself.

On the murder weapon Maori reiterated the defense argument that the kitchen knife found at Sollecito's house "is not the murder weapon , because there are two deep wounds 8 cm , while the blade is 17.5 cm long ." For Maori , the wounds are incompatible with the box cutter that Raffaele Sollecito carried with him .

Moving on to the computer Maori showed a picture of some of the files taken from the work of defense experts . " It appears that at 21.10 he put the movie "The Wonderful World of Amelie " in a folder of seen films and then at 21:26 opened the cartoon "Naruto" This shows that at the time of the crime Raffaele was at home and not at the place of the murder that occurred at 21:00 " . So , for Maori "it is not true that Sollecito 's alibi is false."

With regard to witnesses , the lawyer Maori calls them "characters in search of an author , created by the media and influenced by them ," disputing point by point the reliability and veracity of their claims .

Judges, pleaded Maori ( citing Cesare Beccaria ), please remember the task of seeking the truth of the case only on the basis of facts , with a final request : " Acquit Raffaele Sollecito for not having committed the crime ."

After a short break and Maori’s speech began rebuttals of parties to whom the Chief Justice, Alessandro Nencini , granted a time quota : half an hour for each party , an hour to the prosecutor Crini facing the positions of the two defendants.

Crini has made a number of caveats reaffirming the validity of the evidence ( genetic , times , witnesses, traces and footprints) that , according to the indictment indicate the guilt of the two defendants . "The absence of motive? There may be a defensive element ." For Crini , however , the reconstruction according to which there existed tensions between the tenants on the cleaning of the apartment in Via Della Pergola and behavior of Guede (who went into the bathroom and then did not flush the toilet ) is plausible as a possible motive for the attack, which then resulted in murder. At the end of his rebuttal, the PG again asked for convictions of the two defendants , recommending to the court ( if convicted ) to provide for the possibility to ensure concrete punishment. In practice (as Amanda is in the U.S.) it would be a step towards Sollecito , waiting for the final verdict of the Supreme Court , which can range from prison , to being put under house arrest, to prohibition to leave the country. So , in a nutshell, an invitation to Sollecito to run [flee].

On the other hand, the father of Raffaele Sollecito , Francesco , reiterated that " my son will not go abroad until this chapter in his life is closed."

After another pause , the trial will resume with the other rebuttals.


LA NAZIONE
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

All in all, a good day for the prosecution?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox: Kercher Murder Trial Wrapping Up
The trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher is drawing to a close, with Knox "confident" she will be cleared, her lawyer says.
http://news.sky.com/story/1198016/amand ... rapping-up
2:49pm UK, Monday 20 January 2014

(nice picture of Meredith)



Well who cares what she thinks as it is absolutely meaningless.

What a stupid thing for her to say in her position and based on her actions.

She will never learn when to shut up..


Maybe she somewhat lost touch with reality a long time ago...


Think so Ava, yes.

Maybe before she left Seattle.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
All in all, a good day for the prosecution?


I think it was, but especially the steps to introduce special measures was really good to see.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Final rebuttals heard in 3rd Knox trial
By Colleen Barry

A prosecutor urged a court on Monday to take steps to make sure that American Amanda Knox and her former Italian boyfriend would serve their sentences, if they are convicted of murdering British student Meredith Kercher.

Prosecutor Alessandro Crini preceded his request by noting that Knox has remained in the United States for this trial, while co-defendant Raffaele Sollecito has traveled abroad during it.
...
In the case of Sollecito, who told reporters Monday that he intends to remain in Italy for the verdict, the precautionary measures could include immediate arrest, house arrest or the confiscation of his passport.
...
Sollecito's father, Francesco Sollecito, said his son has no intention of fleeing justice.

"The fact that Raffaele has no intention of escaping the trial is evident by his presence" in the courtroom, Francesco Sollecito said. He said his son has been legitimately looking for jobs abroad, having explained in court that prospective employers in Italy are put off by the notoriety surrounding the case. "He is looking around, because he hopes this story ends soon."


THE TRIBUNE
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Final arguments given in Amanda Knox trial
Eric J. Lyman, Special for USA TODAY 12:32 p.m. EST January 20, 2014
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... l/4659111/
Pro Knox-article.

""This whole trial has been messy, but that will seem like nothing compared to the problems that could emerge with a guilty verdict from this trial," said Massimo Lanzoni, a legal procedures expert with the University of Rome."
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito retrial sums up - video
http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/ ... m-up-video
Monday 20 January 2014, Source: Reuters (English subtitles)
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3h
Maori reassured Sollecito saying nothing to worry about.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3h
Just after Crini's request Sollecito asked Bongiorno "Attorney, what's going on now?"
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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I was wondering if anyone knows what came of Reid Schepis? The story was so close to this case that I always wondered why it wasnt picked up on extensively. He stabbed his roommate 25 times after taking drugs - has no recollection and they were friends by all accounts. I know Meredith and Amanda had a strained relationship, but the similarity is lack of obvious motive, drugs and house mates. Of course the date was a non material similarity which was just creepy. http://www.italianinsider.it/?q=node/1248
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox Faces Another Guilty Verdict
Surely it’s time for this case to end? Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are about to hear the verdict of an Italian court for the fourth time since Meredith Kercher’s murder in 2009.
By Barbie Latza Nadeau
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... rdict.html


"Conventional wisdom in Italy, based on how presiding judge Alessandro Nencini has been ruling so far and how the high court ruled on the acquittal, is that Knox and Sollecito stand a good chance of having their murder convictions upheld."
...
"Sollecito, who has been attending court, told The Daily Beast on Monday that he wasn’t sure if he would come to court or the verdict. “It depends what my lawyers advise,” he said."
...
"As the prosecutor finished his rebuttals on Monday, he also asked that if Knox and Sollecito are convicted on the 30th of January, that “cautionary measures” ranging from removing their passports, putting them on house arrest or putting them in jail are enforced until the high court rules definitively.None of that will matter for Knox, who is safe in Seattle." (she's not, is she?)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox Faces Another Guilty Verdict
Surely it’s time for this case to end? Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are about to hear the verdict of an Italian court for the fourth time since Meredith Kercher’s murder in 2009.
By Barbie Latza Nadeau
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... rdict.html


"Conventional wisdom in Italy, based on how presiding judge Alessandro Nencini has been ruling so far and how the high court ruled on the acquittal, is that Knox and Sollecito stand a good chance of having their murder convictions upheld."
...
"Sollecito, who has been attending court, told The Daily Beast on Monday that he wasn’t sure if he would come to court or the verdict. “It depends what my lawyers advise,” he said."
...
"As the prosecutor finished his rebuttals on Monday, he also asked that if Knox and Sollecito are convicted on the 30th of January, that “cautionary measures” ranging from removing their passports, putting them on house arrest or putting them in jail are enforced until the high court rules definitively.None of that will matter for Knox, who is safe in Seattle." (she's not, is she?)


Well, Barbie tweeted she was tired of listening to the same arguments over and over again and she had trouble to "stay awake". I found her comment heartless considering this is a murder case. If it's too much trouble for you then cover another more exciting story would be my advice.

Anyway, here is where I stopped reading her article:

Whose bloody footprint is in the bathroom? A partial footprint in Kercher’s blood was found on a blue bathmat in the bathroom Knox and Kercher shared. The prosecution has argued that the footprint belongs to Sollecito. His defense says it instead belongs to Guede. Because the footprint is only partial, there is no definitive way to positively identify just whose print it is.

She must have fallen asleep in 2009 too. Pity.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Raffaele Sollecito: “Aspetterò la sentenza in Italia”. E Amanda Knox invece…
Pubblicato il 20 gennaio 2014 13.09 | Ultimo aggiornamento: 20 gennaio 2014 13.09
http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/cronaca-i ... e-1771519/

(googletrans)

"I'll be in Italy - Sollecito told reporters - I have not decided if I'm in the courtroom in Florence or if I'll stay in Bari, it depends on organizational contingencies."

And Amanda Knox?
"Amanda is confident that the Court proclaims her innocence. She cannot wait to end the nightmare," said lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova, one of the defenders of Amanda Knox in court today: "Amanda has a normal life as a student - he added - and follows the process step by step."


Well good he points that out. I had only Knox's email as a reference and it reads as follows:

I am not present in the courtroom because I am afraid. I am afraid that the prosecution's vehemence will leave an impression on you, that their smoke and mirrors will blind you.

Amanda Knox has also said in a recent interview that Raffaele Sollecito was more confident regarding the imminent verdict than she is. That doesn't sound encouraging at all, if you ask me.

The fact she is hiding in the US, refusing to attend her own appeal and defensively stating she will fight any possible extradition request make Dalla Vedova's statements look silly.


Does anyone even take her seriously any more? There are so many contradictions, people are losing track.


My comment wasn't targeted at Amanda Knox as much as Carlo Dalla Vedova. His client has obviously lost it. As long as she was hiding behind prison walls it wasn't as obvious, but since she's been released it is impossible to ignore that there is something seriously wrong with her.

I am wondering more about Carlo Dalla Vedova. What about him? He cannot claim to be ignorant about the email he let Judge Nencini read out aloud in court. Coming out saying "she is confident" is absurd after all her interviews proclaiming to be living in fear and with an uncertain future. Either Carlo Dalla Vedova is stupid, or he believes we are.

Why not say "no comment" for a change? Doesn't he care about his reputation? Why not saying "I am confident she will be acquitted"?

To me it looks unprofessional.


You're right. He allows her to make him look silly. Maybe he thinks saying something, no matter what, is still better than 'no comment'.
I don't know. What do you do with a client like her?


I would go with the "no comment" line.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks guermantes for your stirling job at translating.

hugz-) Much appreciated.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes, thank you Guermantes, Michael, Ava and Zorba for posting the tweets and links to articles published after court proceedings.

It is getting interesting.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

With the current situation and Crini asking the court to take precautionary measures, people are now interested if this will affect Raffaele Sollecito immediately.

It was said that if the guilty verdict is confirmed on January 30th, the prosecution would like the court to carry out precautionary measures which could range from taking Sollecito's passport, house-arrest or simply arrest him on the spot to prevent him from fleeing justice.

Now that he has been warned, one has to wonder if he still has the option to immediately leave the country.

I asked Yummi and in his opinion precautionary measures would take place not before the 30th, but he believes it is unlikely that Sollecito would be allowed to leave meanwhile.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Why did AK and RS have to phone the Police?
Why couldn't they just say to the postal police that they were concerned, but hadn't phoned yet?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, jaybee51, that's a good question, so here's a theory.

They didn't really expect the police to show up at all. They couldn't just go to Gubbio and let others discover Meredith's body. Too many people may have seen Amanda carrying a mop, cleaning supplies, plastic bag for laundry (or using the Laundromat) so the cover story they might have come up with would be to call Filomena, express concern, have the other room mates come rushing back and muddy the crime scene (the plot of many a crime show I've watched)

What threw them off, what caused Amanda to call her mother in a panic, and Raffaele his sister, (all around the same time) was the appearance of the postal police wandering around the area. It is for that reason, and nothing to do with the CCTV clock times :) that I agree with Ed McCall: the 112 calls were made after the postals arrived in the area. You might also want to look at Nell's excellent timeline of all the phone calls, it reinforces this scenario.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I've made a couple of comments, but I'm still digesting the day's events.

I have to say, I'm rather shocked and mystified. I had expected some sort of change of tack by the defence, but no, it seems they have decided to stick with the same old lame arguments that failed with Micheli, failed with Massei, many of which have been effectively ruled to have no merit by the High Court and only succeeded with Hellmann because he and the "independent" experts were bought and incompetent both. I know Sollecito has a very expensive defence team, but I think that he and his family have been robbed. Not that he is the best client a lawyer could wish for, I would admit. All the same, his (and Knox's) defence is lame. I think this situation is born of arrogance, the Sollecitos' and Knox' belief at the beginning that they could play for all the marbles, a full acquittal and walk away from it scott free instead of trying to cut their losses from a result they could in reality never escape by trying to cop for lesser charges or/and fast track trial reductions. When one tells lots of lies, one becomes trapped by them. They've built their own cages.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Latest update by Andrea Vogt
UPDATE JAN. 20, 2014

http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featu ... -appeal-2/

Knox’s lawyers agreed to complete their rebuttals in the first hour of the final January 30th hearing, before the judge and jury retreat to the deliberation room for a verdict. That is advantageous for Knox’s defense, which will benefit from the full attention of the rested judge and jury on the 30th just before they go into deliberations than they would have than at the end of today’s long day of debate.
...
Prosecutor Alessandro Crini noted that Knox has been in the U.S., for the duration of her appeal, while Sollecito has traveled abroad often. The court can request a variety of temporary measures on the 30th if they indeed convict (for the period while awaiting a final Court of Cassation decision) including confiscation of passport, house arrest or immediate arrest. The measures would likely not be applicable to Knox in the U.S., without some sort of formal extradition or restriction of movement request.
Another important moment in this last full day of debate, however, was the opening of Francesco Maresca’s rebuttal, in which he, for the first time publicly, suggested that the 2011 acquittal in Perugia had been somehow decided (and announced) in advance.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3h
Just after Crini's request Sollecito asked Bongiorno "Attorney, what's going on now?"


Oh come on, Sollecito, Rich Idiot with No Day Job. Playing dumb now, pretending to be a complete oaf and therefore harmless? Or trying to be willfully ignorant to avoid responsibility? Using this trope can backfire in a big way if he needs people to trust him - nobody will believe a 'fool.' Knox also likes to feign stupidity: "I didn't understand what was happening, I didn't know what to think, blah blah blah."
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Retrial of Amanda Knox and former Italian boyfriend enters final phase
By Jeff Black, Staff Writer, NBC News
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014 ... inal-phase

Prosecutor Alessandro Crini acknowledged his request is complicated by Knox remaining in the United States, while her former Italian boyfriend Sollecito has traveled abroad, The Associated Press reported.
As a precautionary measure, Sollecito could be arrested, put under house arrest or have his passport confiscated, the prosecutor said.
“The situation is unusual," Crini told an AP reporter outside the court session. "Usually if someone is convicted of murder, they are already in custody."
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

(New headline by CB)
Prosecutor: Don't let Amanda Knox avoid prison if convicted
By COLLEEN BARRY, Associated Press Published: Jan 20, 2014 at 8:45 AM PST Last Updated: Jan 20, 2014 at 11:46 AM PST
http://www.katu.com/news/national/Itali ... 35031.html
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox Faces Another Guilty Verdict
Surely it’s time for this case to end? Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are about to hear the verdict of an Italian court for the fourth time since Meredith Kercher’s murder in 2009.
By Barbie Latza Nadeau
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... rdict.html


"Conventional wisdom in Italy, based on how presiding judge Alessandro Nencini has been ruling so far and how the high court ruled on the acquittal, is that Knox and Sollecito stand a good chance of having their murder convictions upheld."
...
"Sollecito, who has been attending court, told The Daily Beast on Monday that he wasn’t sure if he would come to court or the verdict. “It depends what my lawyers advise,” he said."
...
"As the prosecutor finished his rebuttals on Monday, he also asked that if Knox and Sollecito are convicted on the 30th of January, that “cautionary measures” ranging from removing their passports, putting them on house arrest or putting them in jail are enforced until the high court rules definitively.None of that will matter for Knox, who is safe in Seattle." (she's not, is she?)


Well, Barbie tweeted she was tired of listening to the same arguments over and over again and she had trouble to "stay awake". I found her comment heartless considering this is a murder case. If it's too much trouble for you then cover another more exciting story would be my advice.

Anyway, here is where I stopped reading her article:

Whose bloody footprint is in the bathroom? A partial footprint in Kercher’s blood was found on a blue bathmat in the bathroom Knox and Kercher shared. The prosecution has argued that the footprint belongs to Sollecito. His defense says it instead belongs to Guede. Because the footprint is only partial, there is no definitive way to positively identify just whose print it is.

She must have fallen asleep in 2009 too. Pity.



See there we go with Barbie it's exactly this shit that got me started on criticising her

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
Why did AK and RS have to phone the Police?
Why couldn't they just say to the postal police that they were concerned, but hadn't phoned yet?

I think RS wanted his sister on the case. They were surprised to see the Postal Police so it was a bit of a panic reaction to say that they already called the police. Maybe hoping that would make the Postals decide to keep it short and leave, not wanting to walk in the way of their colleagues. It didn't work that way, so they had to make the calls with the police already in the house IMO. (Most of the testimony fits the 'clock is fast' scenario, as well as the CCTV images.) Then Knox hoped Filomena wasn't on the way yet and gives the Postals 'Meredith's' number instead of Filomena's number when she well knows Filomena's number (she just called her herself after all). Sollecito and Knox were seen coming out of Knox's room and the calls were relatively short. That is where and when the calls were made. I am surprised this came back on the table a bit after Massei gave a favorable ruling to the defense. Bongiorno mentioned it, and Crini as well although I am not completely sure what Crini tried to say. I think he tried to say that it doesn't really matter if the clock was slow or fast because the phone calls to the police were late in any way. JMO.
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Offline zinnia


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
zorba, are you still there?



A minute still Ava yeah, but need to go see a man about a dog!


Are you buying a dog or am I missing a joke?


Hmmmm Zorb, my dad said it was a horse. :)
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Why did AK and RS have to phone the Police?
Why couldn't they just say to the postal police that they were concerned, but hadn't phoned yet?

I think RS wanted his sister on the case. They were surprised to see the Postal Police so it was a bit of a panic reaction to say that they already called the police. Maybe hoping that would make the Postals decide to keep it short and leave, not wanting to walk in the way of their colleagues. It didn't work that way, so they had to make the calls with the police already in the house IMO.


Thx. That makes sense to me.
A little delay could have given time for the Sollecitos to organize 'sympathetic' police to carry out the investigation. AK and RS didn't mention the blood/robbery etc. at first, did they.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

His sister was in Rome, and already in the dog house with her superiors. Didn't he call his father as well? It didn't seem well thought out, ad hoc at best.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Why did AK and RS have to phone the Police?
Why couldn't they just say to the postal police that they were concerned, but hadn't phoned yet?


I think RS wanted his sister on the case. They were surprised to see the Postal Police so it was a bit of a panic reaction to say that they already called the police. Maybe hoping that would make the Postals decide to keep it short and leave, not wanting to walk in the way of their colleagues. It didn't work that way, so they had to make the calls with the police already in the house IMO. (Most of the testimony fits the 'clock is fast' scenario, as well as the CCTV images.) Then Knox hoped Filomena wasn't on the way yet and gives the Postals 'Meredith's' number instead of Filomena's number when she well knows Filomena's number (she just called her herself after all). Sollecito and Knox were seen coming out of Knox's room and the calls were relatively short. That is where and when the calls were made. I am surprised this came back on the table a bit after Massei gave a favorable ruling to the defense. Bongiorno mentioned it, and Crini as well although I am not completely sure what Crini tried to say. I think he tried to say that it doesn't really matter if the clock was slow or fast because the phone calls to the police were late in any way. JMO.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/T ... arrived.3F


That's what the live tweets from the courtroom said yesterday. That no matter what, the phone calls were made late, given that they had already talked to Filomena like half an hour earlier, agreeing to call police. That wasn't done. Why the delay?


Further to the question asked by Jaybee, I think it was also guilty conscience that led them to claim they had already called police. Imagine showing the postal police the large blood stains in the bathroom, blood dripping from the bathroom door, on the light switch, tap, basin, smears, a door they cracked because they tried to break it down.

They knew waiting so long to call police would raise some questions. They had been caught. Filomena was about to arrive and they might have feared she would address the fact that they had already talked about calling the police half an hour earlier. To divert suspicion, they claimed to have called police because that is what a normal person would have done. They knew it didn't look good for them. Then they called the police while the postal police was already in the house talking to Filomena.

If you look again at the pictures taken by the media from the day of the discovery of Meredith's body, I think Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were very worried what Filomena might comment to police. Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito had completely lost control over the situation.


It is very understandable that prosecutor Crini pointed the delay out as it is a piece of evidence against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. They discovered a break-in and didn't report it even though they had spoken to various people, including Knox's mum, Sollecito's dad, his sister and Filomena. Still, they would not call police immediately. What were they doing then? If you find a broken window, a ransacked room and blood in your bathroom you call the police.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox has created a new FB page, "Amanda Knox Defense" (*sigh*)

Amanda Knox wrote:
Dedicated to my defense against the unjust and unfounded accusation of having participated in the murder of my roommate and friend, Meredith Kercher.


I guess she's getting more and more desperate with every passing day...
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zinnia wrote:
Ava wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
zorba, are you still there?



A minute still Ava yeah, but need to go see a man about a dog!


Are you buying a dog or am I missing a joke?


Hmmmm Zorb, my dad said it was a horse. :)



Oh, never heard that one, but just as good, kids will ask, so did you see him dad and what happened about that horse, where are we going to put it in our 10th floor apartment.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Too tired today to write anything of much value.

Incredible trhat despite being warned about usin certain arguments again, the defenc teams acted as though they are deaf, and just repeated the same stuff, the stuff that means the defence is going to fail, even if they did ever have a chance, somewhere, and it seems they didn't, or they would have demonstrated what they had, shown that Sollecito really was on his computer all that time, shown that someone really could break in leaving no marks through that closed-shuttered window in full view of oncoming traffic with the only way to avoid being seen each time a car came along, jumping down all that height and restarting the ridiculously poor choice of entry.

No they had nothing.

Fancy Hellmann using unofficially obtained data, as in, not entered into evidence in the appropriate way, evidence directly obtained from people who drink their tea and lemonade at Knox's parents' homes.


Poor old deluded Knox with her campaign, as though she is Greenpeace Knox, for fuck's sake, spare us.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Filomena arrived just after 1:00 PM, Nell. I think the two friends Luca and Paolo arrived shortly before, and it was their testimony that Knox and Sollecito kept disappearing into her bedroom. What we do have are the timestamps on the 112 calls ;) and, noting how hushed their voices were on it, I bet they were in her room at the time. (I don't hear traffic noise, for one thing, and Viale San Antonio is very busy-if they were calling while waiting outside, as they were when the postals arrived)
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox has created a new FB page, "Amanda Knox Defense" (*sigh*)

Amanda Knox wrote:
Dedicated to my defense against the unjust and unfounded accusation of having participated in the murder of my roommate and friend, Meredith Kercher.


I guess she's getting more and more desperate with every passing day...


I can only shake my head. How pathetic.

She had forensic experts testifying for her, a team of lawyers in Italy, a high profile lawyer in the US, what the heck does she need a Facebook page for "dedicated to her defence"?

Panic is setting in.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here is Machiavelli's tweet I referred too earlier:

Crini: Sollecito calls Carabinieri too late, also because last phone call to Romaneli was at 12.38

Please note that either the tweet has a typo or Crini quoted the time wrong or the time is wrongly stated in the Massei report. In the Massei report the logs say last phone call between Filomena to Amanda Knox was at 12:34 pm. Anyway, the error is in favour of the defendant.


If you have a look at the phone records from Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito for November 1st, you see why their delay to call the police is significant.

At 12:20 pm Filomena calls Knox's cellphone and the call is transmitted by a tower that covers Sollecito's apartment. When Filomena calls Amanda at 12:34 pm, this time the call is transmitted by a tower that covers the cottage. So Knox and Sollecito leave Sollecito's apartment between these two phone calls and walk to the cottage.


Amanda Knox calls Filomena Romanelli at 12:08 pm for the first time. According to John Follain, Knox informed Filomena about the situation, telling her about the blood in the bathroom, the "disappearance" of Meredith, but not her ransacked room. Filomena tells her to call the police. When she doesn't hear back from Knox, she calls her back. Knox does not pick up the phone. Filomena leaves a voice message. The last call between Filomena and Knox is at 12:34 pm (Filomena calls Knox) and now Knox informs her about her ransacked room as well and the broken window. Filomena tells her to call the police.


Crini's presentation of the facts was rather generous considering the first phone contact between Filomena and Amanda takes place as early as 12:08 pm.

After the last phone call between Filomena and Amanda, at 12:34 pm, her next phone call is to her mother in Seattle, the famous early morning call at 12:47 pm (4:47 am in Seattle).

If we now compare this to Sollecito's timeline as well, we find he recharges his phone at 12:35 pm and receives a confirmation as text message at 12:38 pm. After that he receives a phone call from his father at 12:40 pm (after a series of calls in the morning hours, see this post about the phone activity). At 12:50 pm Sollecito calls his sister and at 12:51 pm he calls for the first time the police.


After careful consideration of all the phone log activity, one realises how incriminating this evidence really is.

The arrival of the postal police, even though intriguing, is only half of the story in my opinion.

It seems pretty straight forward to conclude they made the call to police when the postal police was talking to the others who had already arrived at the scene.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Panic is indeed setting in; as if 1636 "likes" on a Facebook page is immunization against extradition, LOL.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Why did AK and RS have to phone the Police?
Why couldn't they just say to the postal police that they were concerned, but hadn't phoned yet?

I think RS wanted his sister on the case. They were surprised to see the Postal Police so it was a bit of a panic reaction to say that they already called the police.

"control"

As things spiraled out of control over the next several days, a senior investigator with the carabinieri in Perugia took it upon himself to call my sister to apologize, colleague to colleague. “If we had arrived ten minutes earlier,” he told Vanessa, “the case would have been ours. And things would have gone very differently.”

Excerpt from Sollecito book "honour bound"
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
max wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Why did AK and RS have to phone the Police?
Why couldn't they just say to the postal police that they were concerned, but hadn't phoned yet?

I think RS wanted his sister on the case. They were surprised to see the Postal Police so it was a bit of a panic reaction to say that they already called the police.

"control"

As things spiraled out of control over the next several days, a senior investigator with the carabinieri in Perugia took it upon himself to call my sister to apologize, colleague to colleague. “If we had arrived ten minutes earlier,” he told Vanessa, “the case would have been ours. And things would have gone very differently.”

Excerpt from Sollecito book "honour bound"



I expect she is delighted with him putting her in possible danger with the law, saying this nonsense, I do not believe a word of it.

It sounds exactly like the stuff he said about the knife: I was cooking and pricked her by accident (yeah, well mate, what with you being accused of murder you aren't about to say you pricked her on purpose, the accidental or on purpose is what makes this so fake as it is meaningless)
she said it was no problem.

The terrible thing with him saying she said it was ''no problem'' is the fact that it was all MORE than problem,
the problem with him pricking Meredith is it killed her
.
No problem, sure man you nitwitted liar.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Well, Barbie tweeted she was tired of listening to the same arguments over and over again and she had trouble to "stay awake". I found her comment heartless considering this is a murder case. If it's too much trouble for you then cover another more exciting story would be my advice.

She said something like at the first appeal already. Strange that she keeps attending the trials sessions regardless...and that she'll be featured as the journalist covering the case in the upcoming Winterbottom film.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zinnia wrote:
Ava wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
zorba, are you still there?



A minute still Ava yeah, but need to go see a man about a dog!


Are you buying a dog or am I missing a joke?


Hmmmm Zorb, my dad said it was a horse. :)


It's cute. I'm trying to think of equivalents in other languages...
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
Well, Barbie tweeted she was tired of listening to the same arguments over and over again and she had trouble to "stay awake". I found her comment heartless considering this is a murder case. If it's too much trouble for you then cover another more exciting story would be my advice.

She said something like at the first appeal already. Strange that she keeps attending the trials sessions regardless...and that she'll be featured as the journalist covering the case in the upcoming Winterbottom film.


Hi Ava and Nell,

I remember when it was that I was shocked by stuff she started saying, it was back when no outcome at all had been obtained, no guilty verdict, and Nick Pisa who writes for all the tabloids was saying what I found to be plainly nasty stuff, and I mean on the basis of incorrect info, you'd have thought he too was in the Seattle pocket.

Up until then Barbie seemed to be the only one saying things the way they were, and Andrea hadn't popped up yet.

But then there were reports about them all dining out together.

Not so strange if they are all in court all day together but I noticed she started parroting what he said and using the exact same words, like ''shoddy police work'', it's then that what she was saying made me angry, because this case has not been typified by any shoddy police work, they did everything they could to carry things out correctly.

I think everyone concerned was treated correctly too.

It was irritating yesterday when she started on about journalists being tired, she must have meant she was, she comes out with some odd things now and then, and I agree if it is such a trouble for you to be getting paid to be in court; then give the job to someone else.


Court procedure: Oh we've heard it all, I'm tired, let's skip that, and that and that and that.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
max wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Why did AK and RS have to phone the Police?
Why couldn't they just say to the postal police that they were concerned, but hadn't phoned yet?

I think RS wanted his sister on the case. They were surprised to see the Postal Police so it was a bit of a panic reaction to say that they already called the police.

"control"

As things spiraled out of control over the next several days, a senior investigator with the carabinieri in Perugia took it upon himself to call my sister to apologize, colleague to colleague. “If we had arrived ten minutes earlier,” he told Vanessa, “the case would have been ours. And things would have gone very differently.”

Excerpt from Sollecito book "honour bound"


Instead of which they got the politician friends to try take control, ttrroonniicc. Still think Bongiorno substituted the judges and had Hellmann paid off. Oh, well, Steve Moore will be going on about Italy 'persecuting' scientists when they investigate Conti and Vecchiotti, looking at their report it looked like Budowle and Hampikian had written it, LOL.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
Well, Barbie tweeted she was tired of listening to the same arguments over and over again and she had trouble to "stay awake". I found her comment heartless considering this is a murder case. If it's too much trouble for you then cover another more exciting story would be my advice.


She said something like at the first appeal already. Strange that she keeps attending the trials sessions regardless...and that she'll be featured as the journalist covering the case in the upcoming Winterbottom film.


I remember that too.

Anyway, Barbie doesn't matter. The case does.

This might be the most important case on international level regarding PR for rich defendants to influence a criminal case.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Many lawyers did go over their allotted time and argue the case all over again, instead of rebuttal, so even Judge Nencini got testy. Knox's lawyers have promised they could rapidly rebut Jan. 30, so I do hope we get a verdict that night.

I keep bringing up Cassazione, but it was exciting to be there. Even then, then yeah, they were arguing the case over instead of the application of the law, as supposed to. Will the upcoming appeal to Cassazione be an anti-climax? Will Knox pull a rabbit out of hat at ECHR? Yes, and no, I think. But, uncertainty is a lot more fun.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Here is Machiavelli's tweet I referred too earlier:

Crini: Sollecito calls Carabinieri too late, also because last phone call to Romaneli was at 12.38

Please note that either the tweet has a typo or Crini quoted the time wrong or the time is wrongly stated in the Massei report. In the Massei report the logs say last phone call between Filomena to Amanda Knox was at 12:34 pm. Anyway, the error is in favour of the defendant.


If you have a look at the phone records from Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito for November 1st, you see why their delay to call the police is significant.

At 12:20 pm Filomena calls Knox's cellphone and the call is transmitted by a tower that covers Sollecito's apartment. When Filomena calls Amanda at 12:34 pm, this time the call is transmitted by a tower that covers the cottage. So Knox and Sollecito leave Sollecito's apartment between these two phone calls and walk to the cottage.


Amanda Knox calls Filomena Romanelli at 12:08 pm for the first time. According to John Follain, Knox informed Filomena about the situation, telling her about the blood in the bathroom, the "disappearance" of Meredith, but not her ransacked room. Filomena tells her to call the police. When she doesn't hear back from Knox, she calls her back. Knox does not pick up the phone. Filomena leaves a voice message. The last call between Filomena and Knox is at 12:34 pm (Filomena calls Knox) and now Knox informs her about her ransacked room as well and the broken window. Filomena tells her to call the police.


Crini's presentation of the facts was rather generous considering the first phone contact between Filomena and Amanda takes place as early as 12:08 pm.

After the last phone call between Filomena and Amanda, at 12:34 pm, her next phone call is to her mother in Seattle, the famous early morning call at 12:47 pm (4:47 am in Seattle).

If we now compare this to Sollecito's timeline as well, we find he recharges his phone at 12:35 pm and receives a confirmation as text message at 12:38 pm. After that he receives a phone call from his father at 12:40 pm (after a series of calls in the morning hours, see this post about the phone activity). At 12:50 pm Sollecito calls his sister and at 12:51 pm he calls for the first time the police.


After careful consideration of all the phone log activity, one realises how incriminating this evidence really is.

The arrival of the postal police, even though intriguing, is only half of the story in my opinion.

It seems pretty straight forward to conclude they made the call to police when the postal police was talking to the others who had already arrived at the scene.


IMO the exact timing both sets of family knew something terrible had happened and their dear misfits had really done it this time.

As it is maybe they should have broke the door down and claimed to have 'found' Meredith. Then almost everything is barely explanable... except the broken window. Maybe they wouldn't have even had to do that.

IMO there was just too much for them to do, say, insinuate, pretend and disguise. I bet RS was shaking like a leaf. No wonder both of them give such ridiculous answers... they just couldn't keep it all straight and to plan.

mop-) bricks-) angel-) wm) sc-))
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
Well, Barbie tweeted she was tired of listening to the same arguments over and over again and she had trouble to "stay awake". I found her comment heartless considering this is a murder case. If it's too much trouble for you then cover another more exciting story would be my advice.


She said something like at the first appeal already. Strange that she keeps attending the trials sessions regardless...and that she'll be featured as the journalist covering the case in the upcoming Winterbottom film.


I remember that too.

Anyway, Barbie doesn't matter. The case does.

This might be the most important case on international level regarding PR for rich defendants to influence a criminal case.



Absolutely, and that's one of the reasons why I see PMF's (along with all the pro-victim sites) role in this case as being so important. If Knox and Sollecito end up getting any kind of final success out of having used a PR machine to undermine justice, then that will set a precedent that will create a cottage industry dedicated to undermining justice on behalf of wealthy photogenic clients. Justice should not be permitted to be about marketing, propaganda and smearing the innocent. We cannot influence the court and neither would we wish to, but we can influence and help negate the sordid PR and smear campaign. We don't want to see a world where the innocent are convicted and corrupt or/and incompetent law enforcement officials and courts are allowed thrive, but just as importantly, neither do we want to see one where the guilty walk and where honest and professional officials are smeared and harried out of their careers simply because of "who" they prosecute, rather then how and why, and where verdicts and sentences are unduly influenced by an engineered social favouritism. That isn't justice.

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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
ttrroonniicc wrote:
max wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Why did AK and RS have to phone the Police?
Why couldn't they just say to the postal police that they were concerned, but hadn't phoned yet?

I think RS wanted his sister on the case. They were surprised to see the Postal Police so it was a bit of a panic reaction to say that they already called the police.

"control"
As things spiraled out of control over the next several days, a senior investigator with the carabinieri in Perugia took it upon himself to call my sister to apologize, colleague to colleague. “If we had arrived ten minutes earlier,” he told Vanessa, “the case would have been ours. And things would have gone very differently.”

Excerpt from Sollecito book "honour bound"
I expect she is delighted with him putting her in possible danger with the law, saying this nonsense, I do not believe a word of it.

It's probably boastful. But he was phoning his police officer sister, to get him out of the shit. Why her. Why not the real police (for police procedure). Why her, a policewoman who happens to be his sister. He didn't call the main police line he called his sister (who said 'call the police'). What did he want to say to her? "get me out of the shit", nothing else. The book passage confirms it. He thought he could get away with anything as he was protected by his powerful father and his police officer sister.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Instead of which they got the politician friends to try take control, ttrroonniicc. Still think Bongiorno substituted the judges and had Hellmann paid off. Oh, well, Steve Moore will be going on about Italy 'persecuting' scientists when they investigate Conti and Vecchiotti, looking at their report it looked like Budowle and Hampikian had written it, LOL.

Sollecito was correct to assume that he is protected. Evidence has disappeared. Witnesseses intimidated. Guede beaten up twice in prison, once shortly before appeal. The shitheads Papa Sollecito got to speak up against Guede, to divert. What about the "missing" hair? Papa Sollecito has been all over this .. Euros must have flown all over the place.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Massive rejection of English testimonies is "weak" on the part of defence; tensions and dislikes in the house are recorded on paper


Andrea Vogt @andreavogt
Prosecutor Crini: a lack of motive does not equal proof of innocence. #amandaknox


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Argument about cleaning was also reported by Meredith to her father John Kercher


The important fact seem to be coming out sans the mass PR confusion. Finally, I am clear on matters that were previously muddy.

Thanks and thanks again pp-(
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
zorba wrote:
ttrroonniicc wrote:
max wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Why did AK and RS have to phone the Police?
Why couldn't they just say to the postal police that they were concerned, but hadn't phoned yet?

I think RS wanted his sister on the case. They were surprised to see the Postal Police so it was a bit of a panic reaction to say that they already called the police.

"control"
As things spiraled out of control over the next several days, a senior investigator with the carabinieri in Perugia took it upon himself to call my sister to apologize, colleague to colleague. “If we had arrived ten minutes earlier,” he told Vanessa, “the case would have been ours. And things would have gone very differently.”

Excerpt from Sollecito book "honour bound"
I expect she is delighted with him putting her in possible danger with the law, saying this nonsense, I do not believe a word of it.

It's probably boastful. But he was phoning his police officer sister, to get him out of the shit. Why her. Why not the real police (for police procedure). Why her, a policewoman who happens to be his sister. He didn't call the main police line he called his sister (who said 'call the police'). What did he want to say to her? "get me out of the shit", nothing else. The book passage confirms it. He thought he could get away with anything as he was protected by his powerful father and his police officer sister.


You know what I find so awful too Troon, is that I think his sister, before this trouble, would have been as straight as a die, but because it was her brother, everything she stood for, I mean truly, she threw overboard, that is so typical of some humans, they do all of those things in life but when it concerns their own families they are willing to lie, even if a person was murdered.

Let's think about what that means exactly.
It is a shameful thing about human so-called nature, the words are all wrong since it is not nature, it is weakness. It means all of what they supposedly stood for when it didn't concern them, was real bullshit, it was meaningless, because that same stuff needs to apply to everyone, you cannot pretend to be an upstanding citizen when judging others, but when it concerns your family disregard it all.

When people like this behsve incorrectly it is far worse than when ordinary citizens behave badly, these are people who were supposed to be helping others, helping the public, standing up for what is right, yet these people have shown that it can really be a bunch of bullshit, everything they stood for was fake.
If it was real, they could never start breaking the law.

However this is them (certain individuals who do not represent everyone or even a majority) and it is not everyone, does anyone think Mr Nencini would behave as Sollecito's sister did, does anyone truly believe that Mr Mignini would act differently because it was his family, does anyone really think John Kercher would allow his kids to murder people and say nothing except lies in order to protect them?

No, of course not, everyone knows each one of these people would have demanded that the loved one did the right thing.

Anyway, anyone know where Sollecito is right now?????????????

Oh my god, Gman or whatever his awful dumb fucking name is, will be landing in Bari in his stolen heli any moment, orders issued, if the Italian is locked up he will tell all. Stop him, capture him, help him escape.

Oh deary me.

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

tamale wrote:
Michael wrote:
Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Massive rejection of English testimonies is "weak" on the part of defence; tensions and dislikes in the house are recorded on paper


Andrea Vogt @andreavogt
Prosecutor Crini: a lack of motive does not equal proof of innocence. #amandaknox


Machiavelli @Machiavelli_Aki
Argument about cleaning was also reported by Meredith to her father John Kercher


The important fact seem to be coming out sans the mass PR confusion. Finally, I am clear on matters that were previously muddy.

Thanks and thanks again pp-(

Oh, except for one thing...I thought Crini said precautionary measures must be taken. Would that not mean before the verdict, to make sure there is no running? How can one take precautionary measures after a verdict? pp-(
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I think measures taken before that come into effect at verdict (if guilty)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A little bit more info on Knox and Sollecito lawyers' reactions to Crini's request for cautionary measures in this article published by Menti InFormatiche:

Meredith: "Prevent the escape of Raffaele Sollecito" The request of the pg

The request for an interim measure comes before the judgment [verdict]. Surprising many, in the courtroom - even Raffaele Sollecito , "Now what happens to me ?", Asks his lawyer Luca Maori who smiles and minimizes "it's nothing , don't be concerned" - but then, this process has never lacked surprises or controversy. And the last hearing before the epilogue is no exception. Because now , ten days before the council chamber , the Attorney General Alessandro Crini before the court hesitates perhaps in the form but not the substance of the request : and beyond the words he uses , it sends an unmistakable message to the judges. If convicted , do ensure that they serve their sentences . The defense does not seem to like it, "But if you acquit ? - Questions Giulia Bongiorno - . Evidently this is a request for future reference ... ". One of the lawyers of Amanda , Luciano Ghirga , spreads his arms : "The process is ongoing, I will speak to the court on the 30th ... And if possible , I would like to discuss this matter. The request, and we will oppose it because it is generic and because there is a lack of motivation in ordering precautionary measures ."

Amanda Knox is an American citizen , and has returned to life in the United States; Raffaele Sollecito in the courtroom today, even if , as has been well known for some time, will not attend the reading of the sentence .
...
For Giulia Bongiorno "any comment is superfluous , I can only see that Raffaele is in the courtroom and has no desire to run away and that he never acted like a fugitive ."


MENTI INFORMATICHE
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Guermantes. One has to smile a little at the talk by all these defence lawyers. They talk as though all the decisions are up to them.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

"For the verdict I will be in Bari or Florence" Amanda no

IL MESSAGGERO (PDF)

Amanda, why now measure sought?

"Why now?" Is the question that Amanda Knox has posed to the lawyer Luciano Ghirga, who last night announced to her by phone the decision of the Attorney General of Florence to ask the Court to order precautionary measures for her and Raffaele Sollecito in case of convictions in the appeal for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

The young woman - back in Seattle - was feeling "very concerned", according to the lawyer. "Lawyer, what do you mean?" Asked Knox.


STATO QUOTIDIANO
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes, she is definitely "concerned":

Amanda, Why now sought a precautionary measure?

"Lawyer, what do you mean?" Asked Knox. "She wanted me to give - said the lawyer Ghirga - technical information about what is going on." Yesterday, the office had announced that the defense of the American student will oppose the request of the Attorney General of Florence. [The request is] Judged "rare" even if "allowed".


GONEWS (ITALY)

Luciano Ghirga:

"It's a request made ​​in open court and very rare if allowed. We will oppose any precautionary measure," said Ghirga about Crini's request. The legal defense of American pointed out that there are many precedents relating to the request made by pg and also emphasizing the complexity of the request execution in case of Amanda Knox's conviction. Being an American citizen residing at home, it would also pose the problem of international letters [il problema delle rogatorie internazionali] in the course of any requests by the Court in the event that any recognition of her awareness. [to ensure that she is aware of / recognizes the existence of the request?]


ADNKRONOS
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Daily Mail does a neutral report at last:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... urges.html
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
Daily Mail does a neutral report at last:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... urges.html



Yes, but I see the FOAKers have swarmed the comments section already, spouting the same old crap. How predictable.

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Offline jhansigirl


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bill Edelblute on extradition:

http://www.examiner.com/article/will-us ... her-murder

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
It's probably boastful. But he was phoning his police officer sister, to get him out of the shit. Why her. Why not the real police (for police procedure). Why her, a policewoman who happens to be his sister. He didn't call the main police line he called his sister (who said 'call the police'). What did he want to say to her? "get me out of the shit", nothing else. The book passage confirms it. He thought he could get away with anything as he was protected by his powerful father and his police officer sister.


And he is demented.
He thought he had a free ticket. Knox thought she had a free ticket too, but in the meantime she screwed men in the train toilet and contracted herpes on her face. Sollecito hooked up with Knox after she ogled him at a classical music concert. She stayed at the concert after her roommate went home. Most people use the buddy system of "arrive together, leave togethers", but apparently Knox ignored that when she stayed behind to hook up with Sollecito at the concert, at work, and after work.


Meredith walked home alone that evening as well.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
--- snip ---

Amanda Knox is an American citizen , and has returned to life in the United States; Raffaele Sollecito in the courtroom today, even if , as has been well known for some time, will not attend the reading of the sentence.
...
For Giulia Bongiorno "any comment is superfluous , I can only see that Raffaele is in the courtroom and has no desire to run away and that he never acted like a fugitive ."[/border]

MENTI INFORMATICHE

--- snap ---


So Sollecito will also take precautionary measures and not attend the sentencing to avoid being arrested.

Giulia Bongiorno uses the situation to widen the gap between Knox and her client, she points out Sollecito hasn't acted like a fugitive and she leaves unspoken: unlike others!.

Both have acted like fugitives in my eyes, but only one recently admitted to having no intention to serve her sentence if convicted.
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Offline jhansigirl


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
We had a new addition to the family at five this morning ... well overdue. I had such a weird, fitful sleep that I think my daughter and I were strangely connected during the short labour. My daughter arrived at the hospital 15 minutes before the arrival of a 9 pound little sister to two and three year old brothers.

Very strange way of waking up today. I woke up to the phone ringing ... the mother of a good friend passed away. I then checked email ... and a birth. I can't say I've ever had a day before that started with a death announcement followed by a birth announcement.



Here's a good trick if you ever get asked to feed the baby:


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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Brilliant!!
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
http://www.imgur.com is a good photosharing site.


I use imgur. If you get Greenshot you can take screen caps and upload them right to imgur for sharing. The link is automatically put into your clipboard so just a matter of pasting it. Imgur also strips all metadata so pretty much perfect. The entire process of screen cap to image in a post takes 5 seconds as opposed to doing it manually where you just decided it isn't worth the effort.

I don't know about transferring copyright but I mostly use it for screen caps of stuff that has no use for anyone or any economic value.

Belated congratulations on the new family member Jester.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Thanks Guermantes. One has to smile a little at the talk by all these defence lawyers. They talk as though all the decisions are up to them.


Yes... we will argue with our sternest faces pro-) to prevent such things. Of course they are going to fight it. Isn't that their jobs? Jeez.

stup-)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

RADAR EXCLUSIVE

VIDEO: Sollecito’s ex-girlfriend, Kelsey Kay, says he wanted to marry Amanda Knox & move to US to avoid jail in Italy

AOL

“Raffaele told me that when he had been in Seattle in March, his lawyers and Amanda’s lawyers had a meeting where he had proposed the idea of the two of them marrying,” Sollecito’s ex-girlfriend, Kelsey Kay, confirmed to Radar in an exclusive interview. “It would’ve been natural to the public that the two of them got married.”

Though to some, it might seem like a potential happy ending after years of heartache for the pair, Kay revealed that Sollecito’s proposal was a blatant attempt to save his own skin.

“Raffaele proposed the idea to Amanda and her lawyers so that he could obtain citizenship in the United States and stay,” Kay claimed, in the interview.

“It’s important to me that people know … what happened between him and Amanda,” Kay says. “And what had happened — according to him — is in the meeting, he had proposed marriage and that she had told him that she was seeing someone for the past few years and that [it] wasn’t an option.”

For more of the shocking secrets that Sollecito shared with Kay during their relationship, stay tuned for part two exclusively on RadarOnline.com!


RADAR ONLINE
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Funny, the number of Italians trying to get married in the US to avoid legal troubles back home. Sollecito compadre Frank Sfarzo also tried.

Someone dodged a bullet.

Funny also, that Radar online, which published pro Knox pieces, brought this out. The media will turn on you when they figure you're losing, just saying.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This is actually how he real life situation comes through in the end, because Knox may have her docile guitar player, and she may be safe with him, but should they not happen to be totally devoted to one another and their thing ends, she may not be so lucky next time with someone else. Meaning, maybe she has told this guitar guy nothing of what really happened, and maybe she will tell anyone she meets in fture, nothing too, but should either reveal anything, they will never know what will happen if a relationship ends.

Why this girl is saying this and why she feels the need to report it, if she was with Sollecito, may be that she feels it is her duty, because she is an upright citizen, it may also mean she feels used by Sollecito and is getting back at him, but what she ''does'' say strikes me as being real.
Very easy to believe he did this.
After all, he had a lot on his mind, being in his situation, he did not really need to stay in America or on that island, he could have done any number iof things in Italy and most people would not have known who he is.
He has been out fishing for a way to avoid prison, he though that if he had married Knox and she was not delivered back to Italy neither would he be.

God knows what happened, but he really took some wrong steps.
There are a few possible reasons underpinning the choices made

1) He could not back down as he entered into a plot with her to avoid capture. If at some time it appeared to him to be terrible and he wanted to back down and just own up he could not as it had all gone too far so he hoped just tro get away with it

2) He could not and cannot own up because his involvement really is far worse than or limited to just some helper role, he was there and he did terrible things too. This way, all three are intertwined in the plot where they cannot even get angry at one another in the open, or own up, each one having way too much to hide. If Guede hadn't he would surely have told what happened, he had the benefit of the prosecution not seeing him as the actual stabber, etc., but what he did do he is ashamed of and he knows if he reveals what it is he will not be able to face anyone any more and he wans to continue to deny it all because he thinks when he is free he can just tell the people he knew, I did nothing, and he wants to do trhis because he hopes to salvage something of what he had before he got into trouble. He knows if he admits the terrible stuff he did, many oe all will abandon him and reject him. So I think it is this, because he certainly knows the difference he could make and he would not get any extra punishment, he is ashamed but he is also selfish because he wants to trey to retain what he had, that has priority over matters such as the hell Meredith's family are enduring.

I like hearing and seeing this girl reveal these things.
Maybe she is going to give away a few bits more.

Maybe when revealing what Sollecito had said to her, others, very unlike Knox's family or supporters, told her she must say something, because it shows what a crook Sollecito is. After all, marrying just for those reasons shows a willingness to deceive, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Don't know what to make of her. Dumb person to just go with someone like him, and dumber to think he is innocent.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Christ, Sollecito he is a true lunatic/psycho.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

For anyone watching this girl, the video continues, there are 3 or 4. I thought it was 1 then left the page when I watched it a second time, and hadn't closed the page it automatically started the next one.
So young woman alone, with child, sees man on GoFundMe page and within days lets him come to her?

What?????????

If any female I knew did that with some guy up on murder charges I'd freak, even if any guy I knew did the same I wouldn't want to go anywhere near it all or be mentioned.

He demands she sign a contract, a prenuptial, stating if she divorces him before a certain date she must pay him 20,000 dollars. Wow, this man is twisted. She must wear sun glasses outside so that the press doesn't know her (he obviously afraid she will be approached and reveal things about him)

He tells her (KK) he loved her...... he met her in July, DUH.
Loved Knox in a week. After a few days flew down to this girl, met her at airport with her friend, at home kisses her and sticks tongue down neck. All he wanted was a green card, American nationality.

She is sore but she wants to get at him because she feels let down, so she wants to get at him because she was into him, so because she was into him, somewhere in her own deluded world, she claims she still thinks he is innocent, she thinks so still now because, it seems; she was looking for love and imagined in her head that he could be it.

We knew he is a liar, but now, knowing this for sure and that even on the island in the sun he wanted to arrange the same with some girl, any girl he could arrange it with, it means I know for sure there's no way he is going to be around, I think he will be taking steps to flee.

It would make no sense if he were to stay around when he is into all of these things.
Looking for work his daddy said, ahahaha, what a joke.

This girl should thank herself lucky she had enough sense to hold the boat off a bit.
Whatever she thinks about him, it's not her fault he is a wicked swine, but her life, her child's life would have been ruined by him.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I would like to know how much Radar Online paid her for her story
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
For anyone watching this girl, the video continues, there are 3 or 4. I thought it was 1 then left the page when I watched it a second time, and hadn't closed the page it automatically started the next one.


Thanks Z. I didn't know there were 3 more videos.

Here's Star Magazine with screenshots of RS's chats with his former girlfriend. All is revealed just in time for the verdict...

EXCLUSIVE PHOTOS: Amanda Knox’s Ex-Boyfriend’s Desperate Affair!

Star spoke exclusively with Kelsey Kay, a single mother who friend requested the 29-year-old on Facebook in July 2013. During their very first online conversation, he brought up marriage — his visa would expire in August, and if they wed, he’d be free from further prosecution. Six days later, Raffaele flew to Kelsey’s town in Idaho so they could get to know one another.


STAR MAGAZINE

FOAKers must be fuming over these untimely revelations....
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I can't get those Radar pages to work...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Don't know what to make of her. Dumb person to just go with someone like him, and dumber to think he is innocent.


I am amazed hearing those stories, but they are more common than one would think.

There are women who have this helper syndrome and - often unconsciously - choosing men they think they can help or rescue. Some even start relationships with felons serving life sentences without the possibility of parole (the Menendez brothers being one example).

Judging by Kelsey Kay's comments, had Sollecito not admitted to being involved with someone else at the time he asked her to marry him, she would have never come forward and their relationship might have developed to the next stage. In hindsight she seems to have analysed the facts she knows about Sollecito and the treatment he gave Amanda Knox as well, seeing some parallels.

We all suspected back then, after their release, that Knox and Sollecito would probably not be as close as the pair was suggesting. They told us they skyped regularly and were in constant contact. Their contrasting stories always made us wonder if that could possibly be true. Imaging Sollecito texting to Knox and being ignored sounds about right.

It also appears Sollecito has convinced himself to believe in his own lies. He is not a saviour. He is not a hero and he is certainly not a honourable man. He threw Amanda Knox under the bus at the first obstacle he encountered when the police questioned him and I am sure she hasn't forgotten that.

He also says he "could have turned against her but didn't". What is that supposed to mean? Both insist they are innocent, so what he is effectively saying is that he had the option to lie in court and let her take the fall, but chose not to. How twisted is that? According to his sick logic, Knox should be grateful, because he chose not to tell lies about her. If you believe them to be guilty, and I do, his words make perfect sense, but not if you assume them to be innocent. If you believe them to be innocent, his odd statements raise a few questions.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I found this link on .org. I guess that Kelsey Kay gave Radar Online a copy of their chats.

See it to believe it: "You are an American girls dream" - "And you are mine"
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

What about the meeting with the defendants and their lawyers and then subject of marriage. if this happened Crini has all the more reason to request restriction to their freedom before the SC ruling. The friendship of convenience was severely strained but Amanda tries to keep up the pretence . She has experience not being truthful about her "friendships".
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This could be the torpedo that well and truly sinks the Knox/Sollecito propaganda supertanker! Let's see what the US media that was in full support of their All American Girl, thinks of another more real All American Girl (one not facing any accusations of murder) being preyed on by Sollecito who has now been very publicly exposed as a complete slimeball. And once they get their heads around that, the penny may start to drop that perhaps Knox ain't the innocent little lamb either, since the propaganda campaign depends on their both being painted as angels. They stand together, they fall together.

I'm just waiting for the FOAKers to start screaming that she was a PMF plant.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
What about the meeting with the defendants and their lawyers and then subject of marriage. if this happened Crini has all the more reason to request restriction to their freedom before the SC ruling. The friendship of convenience was severely strained but Amanda tries to keep up the pretence . She has experience not being truthful about her "friendships".


True. These revelations ridicule Giulia Bongiorno's statements in court that her client wasn't trying to escape justice.

I have a difficult time imaging Bongiorno attending a meeting that deals with marriage proposals. Sollecito retained attorney John Q. Kelly for some purpose. I have no trouble seeing him acting as intermediary.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
What about the meeting with the defendants and their lawyers and then subject of marriage. if this happened Crini has all the more reason to request restriction to their freedom before the SC ruling. The friendship of convenience was severely strained but Amanda tries to keep up the pretence . She has experience not being truthful about her "friendships".


Yep, that too.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
This could be the torpedo that well and truly sinks the Knox/Sollecito propaganda supertanker! Let's see what the US media that was in full support of their All American Girl, thinks of another more real All American Girl (one not facing any accusations of murder) being preyed on by Sollecito who has now been very publicly exposed as a complete slimeball. And once they get their heads around that, the penny may start to drop that perhaps Knox ain't the innocent little lamb either, since the propaganda campaign depends on their both being painted as angels. They stand together, they fall together.

I'm just waiting for the FOAKers to start screaming that she was a PMF plant.


MichaelB from IIP already asked who Kelsey Kay is and posted a link to the interview. Well, no replies. They just act as if it doesn't exist.

Instead they "debate" the false claims from Halkides about the "missing negative tests" that were laid to rest years ago. Some folks just love to live in the past.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Kelsey appears genuine and very naive. The plan B or was it F from Sollecito senior may have included marriage or at the very least hiding in Santo Domingo. I haven't seen the pre nup Why 3 years of marriage? I totally get the sunglasses though!
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

deleted


Last edited by Ava on Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
This could be the torpedo that well and truly sinks the Knox/Sollecito propaganda supertanker! Let's see what the US media that was in full support of their All American Girl, thinks of another more real All American Girl (one not facing any accusations of murder) being preyed on by Sollecito who has now been very publicly exposed as a complete slimeball. And once they get their heads around that, the penny may start to drop that perhaps Knox ain't the innocent little lamb either, since the propaganda campaign depends on their both being painted as angels. They stand together, they fall together.

I'm just waiting for the FOAKers to start screaming that she was a PMF plant.


MichaelB from IIP already asked who Kelsey Kay is and posted a link to the interview. Well, no replies. They just act as if it doesn't exist.

Instead they "debate" the false claims from Halkides about the "missing negative tests" that were laid to rest years ago. Some folks just love to live in the past.



The FOAKers will deal with it how they always do, revise history and post lots of lame excuses. Their silence on the matter is just them taking time out to think them up.

I'm more interested to see what the media make of it. Will there be a backlash? Or, deafening silence? Let's see.

But, whichever, it's now in the public record and it's devastating for the Knox/Sollecito camps.

I feel sorry for Kelsey and I hope her kidney op went well and she's fully recovered. But, I think she got a lucky escape. One girl is already dead at his hands...and at best, she could have found herself married to the asshole and locked into it. The sooner those two are locked up the better!

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
I found this link on .org. I guess that Kelsey Kay gave Radar Online a copy of their chats.

See it to believe it: "You are an American girls dream" - "And you are mine"


This is quite unbelievable indeed.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
This could be the torpedo that well and truly sinks the Knox/Sollecito propaganda supertanker! Let's see what the US media that was in full support of their All American Girl, thinks of another more real All American Girl (one not facing any accusations of murder) being preyed on by Sollecito who has now been very publicly exposed as a complete slimeball. And once they get their heads around that, the penny may start to drop that perhaps Knox ain't the innocent little lamb either, since the propaganda campaign depends on their both being painted as angels. They stand together, they fall together.

I'm just waiting for the FOAKers to start screaming that she was a PMF plant.


MichaelB from IIP already asked who Kelsey Kay is and posted a link to the interview. Well, no replies. They just act as if it doesn't exist.

Instead they "debate" the false claims from Halkides about the "missing negative tests" that were laid to rest years ago. Some folks just love to live in the past.



The FOAKers will deal with it how they always do, revise history and post lots of lame excuses. Their silence on the matter is just them taking time out to think them up.

I'm more interested to see what the media make of it. Will there be a backlash? Or, deafening silence? Let's see.

But, whichever, it's now in the public record and it's devastating for the Knox/Sollecito camps.

I feel sorry for Kelsey and I hope her kidney op went well and she's fully recovered. But, I think she got a lucky escape. One girl is already dead at his hands...and at best, she could have found herself married to the asshole and locked into it. The sooner those two are locked up the better!


I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Reading through the logs, she seems to be very naive, but she figured him out quickly when he turned out to be a big disappointment, despite bracelet and marriage proposal. I am proud of her for standing up for herself and not let this guy dictate her life. It took her time to figure him out, but in the end she didn't shy away from facing reality. She is obviously hurt and disappointed and he is clearly a big fat inconsiderate liar.

Quote:
Well that's because you have been and absent asshole! The only time you talk to me is to lie and give me just enough to believe we had a future.

What is your address, I am sending back my bracelet. I wore it every day. Now I am do e Do e
Done*


Quote:
You know why?? Cause you don't care about me enough to communicate. I always talk to you first. You give me just enough hope to hang on while youre dating someone else. You make me SICK. What is your address. You are a cold unfeeling jerk. I don;t want the bracelet


He ignored her text messages while posting and responding to strangers on Facebook. He also didn't show any interest once she told him she was in the hospital with a severe infection that resulted in a serious surgery. This guy is insulting everyone's intelligence with his lame lies.

Also note that he talks about his "business" in the Dominican Republic.

His daddy just told the court that he is unemployable and Sollecito complains he doesn't know where his future is headed. What they don't tell you is that they have already very precise plans in DR.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

And Amanda IS still responding to posts on her blog:

"Amanda says:
JANUARY 22, 2014 AT 15:38
Willis,

Absence of evidence is proof of absence in this case considering the fact that the crime scene was not cleaned and multiple sources of forensic evidence of the killer’s presence was found. For Raffaele and I to have participated in the aggression against Meredith, it would have been impossible for us to not have left traces of ourselves similar to those found proving the presence and action of Rudy Guede. Our DNA would have been found on her clothing and body, like Guede’s was, and it would have been impossible for us to be in that environment and not come into contact with Meredith’s blood. It is unreasonable to think that three people could have participated in the aggression, but only the presence of one could be forensically ascertained.

a"
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Why 3 years of marriage?

Kelsey said she checked with her lawyer - 3 years marriage is needed for citizenship.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

He'd still be in the DR now, only his lawyers have told him he wouldn't be able to escape extradition there. Extradition treaty or no extradition treaty, DR will not allow a wanted convicted murdering rapist a safe haven.

As for Kelsey, first day they spoke online he proposed marriage and then on only the second time they met, he turned up with a pre-nuptial agreement, full of outrageous demands. That tells us ALL anyone needs to know about him. She should of ran a mile. AND we also find out, at exactly the same time he's dating another girl and just the year before, he'd proposed marrying Knox so he could remain in the States. He then leaves her in the hospital near death, with no contact and offers all manner of lies for not contacting her, then tries to sweet talk her again with insulting excuses and platitudes. Is this REALLY the kind of person the FOAKers want to support??? Wait...they support Frank Sforza, so that's a stupid question.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The story is spreading: http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2014 ... cda-angle/

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Happy Birthday Nell!!! :) :) :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:


Not only that ... Radar Online seems to hint that there is more to come!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Happy Birthday Nell!!! :) :) :)


Thank you Michael!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

With Knox and Sollecito...there's ALWAYS more to come!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Problem is, this won't change the mind of even one groupie.

Logic just doesn't factor in for a knoxfan. is)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
I found this link on .org. I guess that Kelsey Kay gave Radar Online a copy of their chats.

See it to believe it: "You are an American girls dream" - "And you are mine"


This is quite unbelievable indeed.


Yes, it is.
Cannot help feeling sorry for her.
But I just do not understand how someone can fall that quick and then for someone such as Sollecito.


Kelsey Kay
The truth that you clearly avoided telling me. I honestly don't know who you are. Tell me this summer
you're in love with me. You know what you wanted? A visa. That's all that I was to you. You lied to me.
You lied by not telling me about her, by telling me when you court was over we would have a future.
Telling me you still have feelings for me! You even considered marrying me again but your lawyers told
you it wasn't possible to get the visa that fast. Wow. Just wow. I'm speechless. I was just a fuckin visa to
you.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

She isn't stupid though, I mean she asked him are you seeing someone, and three times he avoided a response and kept asking about her illness and she put him in his place sharp.

He is an ugly-minded bastard.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
Problem is, this won't change the mind of even one groupie.

Logic just doesn't factor in for a knoxfan. is)



We're not out to change the minds of the groupies. You can't change the minds of people who have an agenda. Bottom line, they don't care if they did it or not (and many of them know damned well they did)...they want to see them get off!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) Happy birthday Nell

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
She isn't stupid though, I mean she asjked him are you seeing someone, and three times he avoided a response and kept asking about her illness.



Yeah...all of a sudden terribly interested in her illness when he was never interested in it before...like when she was actually ill.

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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Problem is, this won't change the mind of even one groupie.

Logic just doesn't factor in for a knoxfan. is)



We're not out to change the minds of the groupies. You can't change the minds of people who have an agenda. Bottom line, they don't care if they did it or not (and many of them know damned well they did)...they want to see them get off!!!


I think Knox's PR team has done a wonderful job in moulding public opinion against the facts.

There are only 2 hopes of avoiding extradition:

1. Corruption in Italy so that the request is never made
2. Arousing public opinion to such an extent that political expediency kicks in and State Dept over-rules it.

These latest revalations will not change public opinion.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Kelsey Kay
You didn't know me but you told me you were in love with me and that you wanted to marry me for the
right reasons. I scared you by doing the right thing and not marrying you for a visa? You are cruel. You
are not who I thought you were. We were engaged to be married. Now I know it was all out of
selfishness, which is what I was trying to figure out when I didn't come to see you in coeur d Alene.
Thanks for clearing that up for me

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Kelsey Kay
You didn't know me but you told me you were in love with me and that you wanted to marry me for the
right reasons. I scared you by doing the right thing and not marrying you for a visa? You are cruel. You
are not who I thought you were. We were engaged to be married. Now I know it was all out of
selfishness, which is what I was trying to figure out when I didn't come to see you in coeur d Alene.
Thanks for clearing that up for me

1/1, 1:15pm
Raffaele Sollecito
I care, but we I didn't promise anything this time
we have never been engaged

1/1, 1:16pm
Kelsey Kay
Oh ya? Do I need to send you screen shots! And oh so you were full of fucking shit too when you called
me your fiancé to the lady at chase bank?

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raffaele Sollecito
we wanted to know each other to see if it could work •
1/1, 1:16pm
Kelsey Kay
Cool. You're a liar.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I really appreciate her telling him to FUCK OFF many times, and that he is cruekl, an asshole, a jerk.

But the fuck off is very pleasant to hear, her telling him directly.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Wah, the city on the lake. I spent a few years there long time ago, but still creepy to think the murderer walked around there. He sure has been very busy traveling. Silly US to give him a visa. I think that will be all over in a week.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

She is intensely upset by hios behaviour, and though one can say, well where was she at wanting to support a guy like that, she may be mad at him but I think she was sincere with him and in those messages relayed between them you clearly see how he is such a liar, and totally self-centred.

It was all about him, and he CANNOT see it from any other angle, such as how it is for someone else, his sense of entitlement, his arrogance is suffocatingly vile.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raffaele Sollecito
you basically don't know me still
Kelsey I care I messaged you when I could

1/1, 1:55pm
Kelsey Kay
You manipulated and lied to me. Thank God that while you were in CDA I left you alone at the hotel so I
could think. If I didnt I would have married a monster.
oh did you? really? cause I see you all over Facebook all the time. don't mock my pain

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
She isn't stupid though, I mean she asked him are you seeing someone, and three times he avoided a response and kept asking about her illness and she put him in his place sharp.

He is an ugly-minded bastard.


I think so too. This kind of confrontation is a very typical reaction when someone already knows the answer. Could that have been around the time Sollecito was photographed with a woman in the Dominican Republic? Kelsey Kay must have read that story too, was hurt and asked him directly. Despite his efforts to avoid responding, she nailed him and reacted angrily because of his attempts to fool her.

If Kelsey had a weak character, she would have happily accepted any excuse from him just to make the pain go away momentarily by clinging to the hope of a possible future together. Apparently she preferred to see reality straight in the eye. Good for her.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) band-) Happy birthday Nell


Thank you so much!
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Wah, the city on the lake. I spent a few years there long time ago, but still creepy to think the murderer walked around there. He sure has been very busy traveling. Silly US to give him a visa. I think that will be all over in a week.


Just judging by the text messages alone gives you the impression he is very busy travelling.

I do not understand how people who are financially not so well off - some have donated as little as $5 accompanied by a message promising to give more once their circumstances allowed it - are unable to see through Sollecito's donation scam.

He takes the plane like others the bus. It's unbelievable.

He and his supporters are too stupid to see the obvious contradiction in asking for money to "cover legal costs" and at the same time spending thousands in airfares.

This latest episode exemplifies his lavish lifestyle. He spent a few hundred dollars on a flight ticket to meet someone who had contacted him over Facebook.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Happy Birthday, Nell! All the best, health and wealth !
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito wants to control the story of how they met. He doesn't want it known that they met online in July. He asks Kelsey if there was a chunk of time in March where she was unaccounted for. The plan was for her to say they met a at the bar Montana's in Seattle , back in March when he visited Amanda. So a made up meeting , that needed an "alibi" of a trip to Seattle for Kelsey.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Happy Birthday, Nell! All the best, health and wealth !


Thank you Ergon!
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
band-) Happy birthday Nell


Thank you so much!


You're welcome, hope you are having a great time

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