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XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The part I watched, Sollecito looked bored, uninterested, he seemed to stare at objects rather than looking at a person. He also yawned and rubbed his eyes often.

I wonder, so many people are working so many hours voluntarily to get him off the hook but he seems unfaszed from the whole proceedings. He looks bored.

I wonder what he thinks, if he thinks at all?

The live-stream is interrupted now, I guess they are having a break.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 32s
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " In this process, the motive is considered optional, but it is not "

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 26s
Process Meredith, Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " Guede unwelcome, if there had been a party would not have been asked (invited)"
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Link to posts on previous page (p.13): viewtopic.php?p=116573#p116573
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 6m
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "The relationship - Amanda Raffaele - was tender, kissed like Eskimos

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 4m
Bongiorno and judge exchange laughs over "unca nunca" the eskimo kiss. "I'm over 50," he said "I need an explainer."

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 6m
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " The prosecution changes motive and excessive use of water" [?]

Italian:
ProcessoMeredith, Bongiorno (difesa Sollecito): "L'accusa cambia movente e lo individua nell'uso smodato del water"

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 6m
Meredith process , Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) : " If the motive is a dispute over the hygiene in the house, where does Raffaele fit in? "
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 3m
Bongiorno: Sollecito is not a puppy dog. He may have brushed her hair, cleaned her ears, but he would not kill for love of #amandaknox.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Cleaned up Google translation:

Mez process , 30/1 the verdict

The President of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence, Alessandro Nencini, has agreed with the lawyers of all parties on a new calendar of the trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher. The next hearing for the rebuttals was scheduled for 20 January.

On January 30, time will be provided for the end of the rebuttals and the court will retreat to the council chamber for a judgment in the "late" afternoon, said Nencini.
...
Reporters who asked him [Maresca] if the family of Meredith will participate in some hearings, Maresca said: " For the verdict will probably be in the courtroom brother Lyle and sister Stephanie."


UNINEWS24
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli's latest tweets:

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 23m
Bongiorno criticized interpreter Anna Donnino.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 11m
Said Donnino altered Knox's statements.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 10m
Said Donnino acted as mediator not interpreter

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 8m
Called Donnino a "medium" ( means "psychic")

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 6m
One of the elements against Sollecito is the accusation of having sidetracked investigation. Said it was false.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 5m
Said the Cassazione suggests Raffaele lied about timings of calls to carabinieri, accused him of sidetracking because he lied.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 4m
But, said, if we look at Knox, it's not her sidetracking imvestigation, but rather investigators sidetracking her.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Said trial was determined by the fact Donnino did not understand English well, thus sidetracked Knox

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Talked about police's mistake on the "see you later" message

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Said Knox did not commit a crime but convinced herself she did. B. mentions the internalized false confession type.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Explained the three types of false confessions.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Said Amanda was "induced into raving" by "psychic" Donnino.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 50s
Bongiorno said even if you believe her confession, she doesn't mention Sollecito.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione 4m @ qn_lanazione
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " It was demonstrated that Sollecito called 112 before the police arrival "

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "It was Raffaele who raised the alarm"

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
The recording of Knox's conversation with her mother "proves she was still in delusional state"

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Said if you believe the Memoriale, where does it mention Raffaele?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Bongiorno urged judges to get out from codes and get into the hearts of the two young accused.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
Amanda, B. says, did not understand why Raffaele accused her.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
When Knox learns about being accused by Sollecito, she had a collapse while the "psychic" was saying "remember!"

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
She described Knox as almost unconscious, buckled because she trusted Sollecito, thinks the police and Raff say so, must be true.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 2m
Meredith process , Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) : " No survey has ever spoken of the presence of more subjects"

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Bongiorno criticized factual points addressed by Cassazione, mentions wrong early experts reports.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Said the room is flooded with evidence of Guede all over the place.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Said that was the nightmare of Perugia, the intruder nightmare.

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 4m
Meredith process , Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) : " Rudy Guede did not want to respond to [questions] from our defense [team]"

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 42s
Spoke about Guede's alleged lifestyle.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Said there is no evidence the three people hung out together.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 54s
Said when the investigators found Rudi, they could not abandon the first suspects, because it's difficult like leaving your first love mate

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 23s
Said Guede harassed girls and Sollecito did not know him.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Lunch break:

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 2m
Meredith process, the hearing adjourned for an hour

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 3m
Florence #amandaknox appeal: court breaks until 14:15. Unclear if sollecito defense will finish today or spill over.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox is prepared to become a fugitive if found guilty.

Telegraph UK
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3m
Rudy would physically approach girls and try to kiss them when he was drunk, B. Said

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
Bongiorno talked at lenght to substantiate a scenario of Rudy as a burglar who was used to knives.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 32s
Said Mr. Kokomani "materialized" when investigators had desperate need to prove Sollecito and Guede knew each other

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 11s
Bongiorno talked about "Aladdin lamp effect": detectives' wishes that materialize.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Said the Aladdin lamp effect is generated by media trial, in which a "monster" is chased by public opinion
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Bongiorno criticized mediatic trials and said witnesses must be "virgins", otherwise the Aladdin lamp taints the trial

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 35s
Said that Kokomani was offered 10k euros for his testimony.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
Said motive was considered almost as an optional; said prosecutor general changed the motive because had no choice.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Amanda Knox is prepared to become a fugitive if found guilty.

Telegraph UK


And she still has the pregnancy card to play ...............
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 6m
New #amandaknox court schedule: rebuttals Jan 20, with verdict on Jan 30.

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 23m
What not to say when you are being tried for murder: "If I'm convicted, I will live my life as a fugitive" #AmandaKnox tells La Repubblica.

Sollecito : "I'm not leaving Italy"

LA REPUBBLICA
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
The motive "accepted" (by courts) was a sex party, but the PG does not believe it.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 59s
The motive (sex) for the "festino" (little party) was smartly dropped by the PG

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Said Knox-Sollecito was a tender relation, they enjoied romantic kisses, were not bored 50y old seeking hot emotions

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
The sex theme party is "surreal" Bongiorno said.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

New Court Dates

According to a tweet from Andrea Vogt, the court dates have been changed again.

January 20th - Rebuttals
January 30th - Verdict
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2s
Urged the court to not assume as individual is a weak and discriminated subject just because a black man

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Said Guede was a drop-out, the opposite pro-black prejudice is also unacceptable.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Talked about the "second motive" calling it "improper use of toilet"

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 14s
Appartely B. acknowledged Laura Mezzetti testified about problems with Knox cleaning habits. PG thinks means problems living together

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 25s
But B. objected this is still only half a motive, because Sollecito had nothing to do with it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
If cleaning issues were a casus belli among the girls, why would Sollecito enter a row to defend Rudy?

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 50s
Sollecito - said B.- would not intetvene to help a guy he didn't know, and not even to protect Knox whom he had known 9 days

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 4m
Bongiorno explained the "reverse funnel effect" by which superior court is unaware about additional findings.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3m
Said Cassazione did not assess the DNA judge appoined report and that testimonies and defence reports were missing.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Explained that the subsequent trials of Guede got many facts wrong because they ignored subsequent developments.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 53s
One mistake at the Guede trial was about the shoe print attribution.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 38s
One thing the SC and PG do not know is about what she calls the "real" timing of Sollecito phone call to 112, as "proven" by defence.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Bongiorno showed video of alleged Police arrival recorded by parking CCTV, explaining defence theory.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 10m
The defence theory is the clock was slow, not fast.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 9m
Late

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 9m
The late clock theory is to maintain that Sollecito did not call the 112 after police arrival.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Bongiorno's series of "half pieces of evidence" seemed like void rhetoric. The use of video seemed somehow better.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 5m
When B was describing Donnino as a psychic there were people laughing in the room. The arguments became more effective after the first hour

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Basically Bongiorno defined evidence against Sollecito as only three points: 1late call to police 2knife with Meredith DNA 3 shoe/foot print
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 12m
Meredith process, after the break continues the speech of the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense )
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Two short articles from Il Messaggero

Google translation:

Meredith, Amanda Knox: 'I want to meet her family." Kercher's lawyer: "Think about being a defendant [on trial]"

With the family of Meredith , " I still want to talk ," and " tell them directly that I had nothing to do with the death of Meredith , that I loved her and that we were friends." So Amanda Knox, the American student accused of the murder of Meredith Kercher , in an interview with the Republic. "When I saw them in the classroom at the process of Perugia - he said - I wanted to say hello and I asked my lawyer if I could do it. The lawyer Carlo Della Vedova tried to get close to them but their lawyers have rejected . " Amanda , said : "I know but I believe that I’m the killer of their daughter, they are convinced that I killed her and then even now is still not the time to talk to them. But that day will come. " And, she adds , "I hope that happens after my innocence has been finally recognized ." As for the process , which will soon come to an end , Amanda , in fact, explains that "wait what they look like in 2007 ," or "that is recognized my innocence ." The decision not to participate in the process , " it was a difficult choice because in reality I wanted to go to Italy and be present in the courtroom ." In Italy, however , continues, " I was arrested and put in jail for four long years is not based on evidence but on speculation ." When asked if she has heard recently from Raffaele Sollecito , she replied: "Yes, and he felt much more optimistic than me." And if you were to get a conviction , Amanda says , " I will be ... as they say ... a fugitive from justice . "

The request for wanting to meet the family of Kercher , however, was immediately returned to sender : "Amanda Knox must do the accused and this is the time to make the defendant and stop her statements ." So the lawyer Francesco Maresca, lawyer for the family of Meredith Kercher.


IL MESSAGGERO
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 2m
Meredith process , Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) addresses the issue of DNA on the bra clasp of the victim
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Google translation:

"Raffaele Sollecito: I'm staying in Italy for the verdict"

FLORENCE – ‘I’m staying in Italy . " So Raffaele Sollecito at the beginning of one of the last hearings of the appeals process in which he is a defendant along with Amanda Knox for the murder of Meredith Kercher .
This morning , in fact , Raffaele is in the courtroom next to his defenders , at the hearing devoted to speeches of his lawyers , Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori . With him also the father Francesco.

'It was chosen motive more reassuring - said the lawyer Bongiorno at the opening of her speech recalling the early stages of the investigation - that of the party ended badly , the stunt. A feast at red lights, rather than the motive of the monster, the stranger who killed a student and that was scary to all . " " It 's time to talk about Raffaele - said Bongiorno - . Amanda was the character of this story from the beginning , but there is a responsibility of reflection . But Amanda is innocent , as we shall see . And if she is innocent , Raffaele is innocent . Four days after the discovery of the body are identified Sollecito and Knox, who become a symbol of depravity, of cruelty. Raffaele has the face of a murderer before the clues and evidence . " Starting from the party , "we wondered who was involved . And you thought Amanda Knox, the American way , with a sexy name , and was represented as uninhibited, a twenty year old who goes to bed with everyone, smart , with that nickname, foxy , which instead depends only on her skill in football. And Amanda is the sun that lights up the clues against Raffaele. Just then Raffaele is considered a mythological figure , half Sollecito, and half Knox . "

Errors. The lawyer then started talking about the " gross errors " in investigation " also admitted by the prosecution ," by showing the Court slides of the prints of the shoe found at the crime scene that, at the beginning, were attributed to Sollecito, instead were Rudy Guede's , convicted by a final 16 years . "This is a process of circumstantial evidence - she continued - but with the characteristic that the clues are in the middle . From the impression on the mat to the knife, the murder weapon only works in half, to slander. Why Amanda indicates Lumumba but puts herself at the crime scene . " The attorney then reiterated the " blackout [denial] of defensive guarantees' against Amanda during the first interrogation in prison.

The President of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence, Alessandro Nencini, has re-scheduled upcoming hearings : January 20 is provided for the replies/rebuttals and January 30 the council chamber and the verdict.


IL MESSAGGERO (UMBRIA)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3m
Now Bongiorno talking about DNA.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Says Cassazione didn't read the C&V report carefully. Says not all DNA is usable. Stutter peaks would not be considered

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 42s
Says the collection of DNA is fundamental. The collection must be early.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Meredith process , Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) : "It is not true that no one came on the scene [inspected the crime scene] between the two surveys'

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3m
Disposable gloves must be used, new ones for each item. Quotes Intini saying impossible to avoid contamination of crime scene.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
Items should be touched only once. Stefanoni told the police to not move the items.

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 2m
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " The finding [of the DNA] attributed to Sollecito jumps out only in the second visit "

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 3m
Meredith process , Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) : "About 20 people came to the house between the two inspections"
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 4m
Calls the DNA collection "mother of all mistakes" in this case.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3m
Emphatically lists the names of all officers who entered the house

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
Says about 20 people have manipulated objects on the crime scene

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 40s
Emphasizes that the forgotten bra clasp has become the pivotal piece of evidence against Sollecito.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 27s
Says the bra casp has a "materialization" on the night of Nov. 3 but was not collected because they forgot to place a tag letter.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Complains about the searches made by Napoleoni's team on Nov 6. 7., objects Crini is wrong when [he] says there was only one collection.

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 2m
Meredith process , Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) : " The bra clasp collected not at the first inspection"

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
B. shows pictures of objects moved around in the room, carpet under table, clothes on bed etc.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Says the clasp was moved, found under the carpet, originally was under the pillow.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 29s
Says clasp fabric was touched 14 times with one glove, then touched by other gloves.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Calls these "touchings within a contaminated environment".

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Meredith process, Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) : "The bra clasp was moved"

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 53s
Meredith process , Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) : " The bra clasp was kicked around during the inspections "

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione now
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "That hook might as well have been taken from a landfill "
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
The usual magnified photo showing the dirt on police glove.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Mentions the presence of other DNA contributors on the bra clasp.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Asks, rhetorically, about the way how Stefanoni read the DNA profiles.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 13s
Points out the C&V report where they object how Stefanoni considered the peaks departing from guidelines. Says C&V analyzed each peak.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Says if we apply Stefanoni's criteria to her own findings, the clasp X trace is not attributable to Sollecito

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Bongiorno bashes "inconsistences" of Stefanoni and maintains she mistook stutters for alleles.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 20s
Says mixed DNA profiles are like overlapping of spider webs. High probability of mistake which thread belongs to which one

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 27s
Says the bra clasp trace is a mixed trace.

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione now
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " The trace of DNA on the clasp is mixed "
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Offline McCall


Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 3:38 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
The part I watched, Sollecito looked bored, uninterested, he seemed to stare at objects rather than looking at a person. He also yawned and rubbed his eyes often.

I wonder, so many people are working so many hours voluntarily to get him off the hook but he seems unfaszed from the whole proceedings. He looks bored.

I wonder what he thinks, if he thinks at all?

The live-stream is interrupted now, I guess they are having a break.


Sollecito's lawyers are being paid. Knox's lawyers I don't know but I expect they also are being paid.

Sollecito knows he is going to be convicted. He knows this is all for nothing so he likely is bored. He is watching a movie in which he (and everyone else) already know the ending.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 5m
The profiles mixed in the trace are more than two, thus DNA not usable. This point of arguments perceived as weak in room.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3m
Says Stefanoni applied a suspect-centetred interpretation method on a mixed trace with multiple possibilities. Old argument, weak

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
Says they "found Sollecito's profile among a 4-individuals mixed trace".

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 53s
Talks about the expert claiming the DNA profile could be compatible with herself (actually wrong, the expert was a female had no Y profile)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 4m
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "On the hook traces of four profiles of DNA "

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3m
Mentions further reasons for criticism: 1 low template DNA 2 no second amplification (maybe confuses with knife) 3 unknown biological origin

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
Also, there is the Y chromosome sequence but says it is not reliable for the same reasons.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Emphasizes that other objects in the room instead are "stuffed with" traces of Guede

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 45s
Attributes to Guede the "rest of the whole bra" plus the purse and sweater traces.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "On the scene of the crime no trace of Amanda , but only Rudy Guede "

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
No trace of Knox, how could they clean only their own traces.... etc

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 53s
Process Meredith, Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " How can you think that there is only a trace of Sollecito on the clasp? "

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 32s
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " Absurd to think that Amanda and Raffaele have deleted only their tracks "
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
B: There are two questions: 1. why no traces of Knox and Sollecito (except the clasp); 2. why Sollecito's DNA on clasp but not on bra?

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione now
Meredith process , Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) deals with the knife

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
How is it possible to touch the clasp, but not the rest of the bra? Then Bongiorno says, now let's deal with the knife.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Question is: possible that Sollecito kills and then puts the knife back in the drawer again? and that he uses a knife from his own kitchen?
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Malvern wrote:
If it were cut and removed as suggested wouldn't there be much more blood on it from the murder weapon? That would strengthen the case for a second clean knife used. If torn we know who left evidence on the clasp. Either scenario points to more than one perp.


Well, no. The bra was removed when they moved and posed the victim's body, some hours after the actual murder. By that time, the knife would have been rinsed off (which they probably did when they washed their hands and so forth right after the murder).


Even taking the time to rinse the knife before cutting points to removing it to stage only. I just don't see how anyone could believe a bloody knife could make that clean cut or that Guede would clean it or his hands first before severing the bra.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
The part I watched, Sollecito looked bored, uninterested, he seemed to stare at objects rather than looking at a person. He also yawned and rubbed his eyes often.

I wonder, so many people are working so many hours voluntarily to get him off the hook but he seems unfaszed from the whole proceedings. He looks bored.

I wonder what he thinks, if he thinks at all?

The live-stream is interrupted now, I guess they are having a break.


Sollecito's lawyers are being paid. Knox's lawyers I don't know but I expect they also are being paid.

Sollecito knows he is going to be convicted. He knows this is all for nothing so he likely is bored. He is watching a movie in which he (and everyone else) already know the ending.


Sorry, when I wrote the post, I just came back from Twitter and had more his fan support group in mind than his lawyers. I should have made that clear. Of course his lawyers don't work for free.

What I meant to say is that others seem to care more about him than he himself. I would not want to be labelled a murderer, so I would be listening carefully and intently in court to what is said, not arriving with a smile from ear to ear only to fall asleep once the proceedings start.

One has to see it to believe it.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thank you Guermantes for all your tweets today!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 53s
Bongiorno attacks Finzi's words: quotes testimony when he says "It's the first knife I noticed" and "seemed compatible with wounds".

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
Question how he could deduce the knife was compatible. Bongiorno's points seem extremely weak.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 18s
Another point: Fluorimeter. Stefanoni said the PCR method would have been better.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
In Stefanoni's report it looks like as if for all knife DNA traces RealTime had been used; and it's not true. SAL say Fluorimeter used

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 33s
B. alleges "many mysteries" about Stefanoni's report. Says there is no DNA amount.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 30s
Says there isn't a note indicating a quantifying was done.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Last point about the knife is the kind of blade: 17 cm long, while the wound is 8 cm deep. It's too big, not the murder weapon.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
CItes the report by Dr. Umani Ronchi, saying the knife is compatible, but the blade was not used entirely.

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 57s
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " Depth of the wound on the victim is not compatible with the knife size"

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " The knife found at Sollecito's house is not the murder weapon "
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 12s
Bongiorno dismisses the possibility that hyoid bone could have somehow stopped the blade, prevent from penetrating, it's not resistant enough

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 58s
When there is a will to kill, the blade penetrates entirely

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
My opinion: just behind the hyoid bone base there is the cervical vertebra, very resistent, it was the vertebra that offered resistance.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 3s
Bongiorno handles a big knife!

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 26m
Bongiorno holds up butcher knife like the one in evidence to jury: "This knife is too big. It is not the murder weapon."

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 14m
Once you've seen @avvgbongiorno wave two knives in front of an Italian jury, most other court reporting one has done seems rather dull.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 8s
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " The murder weapon is a boxcutter knife 8 inches long "

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Says: to paint a large wall you need a "great" (big) brush (paraphrase on pun from old advertisement) but you don't use half of a big knife

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 48s
Nobody brings a "small blow with a big knife".

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 34s
Bongiorno shows a picture with an envisioned "knife" (pocket knife belonging to Guede?) together with the print on the bed sheet

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Bongiorno has ended the ninja-knife-rotating phase.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 1m
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " The footprint on the rug [bath mat] is not Sollecito's , his foot does not match "

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Now Bongiorno speaks about the bathmat bloody print. Says Sollecito's big toes do not balance on the dystal phalanx. (old argument)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

How much longer is she going to speak today? Time to wrap up her speech.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "Against Sollecito no real evidence "

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "You can not arrive at responsibility [for murder] by exclusion. We are not in Cogne "

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
After brandishing two knifes before the court, talking about footpint, makes an emphatic comment "We are not in Cogne"

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
"Cogne" is a famous SC ruling saying guilt can be found "by logical exclusion" (Bongiorno), on sheer "a contrario" arguments.

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 25s
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " Plausible [credible] hypothesis that someone has entered through the window"

*sigh*
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 8s
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "The absence of traces of mud on the wall is because in those days it was not raining "

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "Is it possible that the glass has been broken from the outside "

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 23s
Details the "plausibility" of an intrusion through the window. Glass shards etc. arguments already heard.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
The part I watched, Sollecito looked bored, uninterested, he seemed to stare at objects rather than looking at a person. He also yawned and rubbed his eyes often.

I wonder, so many people are working so many hours voluntarily to get him off the hook but he seems unfaszed from the whole proceedings. He looks bored.

I wonder what he thinks, if he thinks at all?

The live-stream is interrupted now, I guess they are having a break.


Sollecito's lawyers are being paid. Knox's lawyers I don't know but I expect they also are being paid.

Sollecito knows he is going to be convicted. He knows this is all for nothing so he likely is bored. He is watching a movie in which he (and everyone else) already know the ending.


Sorry, when I wrote the post, I just came back from Twitter and had more his fan support group in mind than his lawyers. I should have made that clear. Of course his lawyers don't work for free.

What I meant to say is that others seem to care more about him than he himself. I would not want to be labelled a murderer, so I would be listening carefully and intently in court to what is said, not arriving with a smile from ear to ear only to fall asleep once the proceedings start.

One has to see it to believe it.


The online advocates are crazy so they feel there is still a chance of them escaping justice. Sollecito knows a conviction is a certainty and he probably expects his dad to save him from jail by helping him live as a fugitive.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione now
Process Meredith , [fire?] alarm in court. But it is a test

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now
I had the impression Nencini was skeptical because not interested in the photos and videos, did not look at them attentively.

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m
A loud emergency evacuation request was just broadcast in Florence court, but the presiding judge says hearing will continue.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I reckon Sollecito is all set to disappear again after today, of course he isn't going to say that, but look what he did before. Why would he have gone thousands of miles away, when he should have been, for his own good, directly available to his lawyer?

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Last edited by zorba on Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
The part I watched, Sollecito looked bored, uninterested, he seemed to stare at objects rather than looking at a person. He also yawned and rubbed his eyes often.

I wonder, so many people are working so many hours voluntarily to get him off the hook but he seems unfaszed from the whole proceedings. He looks bored.

I wonder what he thinks, if he thinks at all?

The live-stream is interrupted now, I guess they are having a break.


Sollecito's lawyers are being paid. Knox's lawyers I don't know but I expect they also are being paid.

Sollecito knows he is going to be convicted. He knows this is all for nothing so he likely is bored. He is watching a movie in which he (and everyone else) already know the ending.


Sorry, when I wrote the post, I just came back from Twitter and had more his fan support group in mind than his lawyers. I should have made that clear. Of course his lawyers don't work for free.

What I meant to say is that others seem to care more about him than he himself. I would not want to be labelled a murderer, so I would be listening carefully and intently in court to what is said, not arriving with a smile from ear to ear only to fall asleep once the proceedings start.

One has to see it to believe it.


The online advocates are crazy so they feel there is still a chance of them escaping justice. Sollecito knows a conviction is a certainty and he probably expects his dad to save him from jail by helping him live as a fugitive.


That sounds about right and is also very sad.

In a few years, when Knox's and Sollecito's parents look back, I wonder if they will blame themselves for not having done the right thing and made matters worse. They knew and tried to get their children off the hook so they would not have to suffer the consequences for their actions.

They are all going to bee ruined: emotionally and probably financially.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
I reckon Sollecito isall set to disappear again after today, of course he isn't going to say that, but look what he did before. Why would he have gone thousands of miles away, when he should have been, for his own good, directly available to his lawyer?


I guess papa Sollecito will find out his son is on his way back to the Dominican Republic when they stop him at the airport again.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bon giorno's attacking the Supreme Court = not a good idea = beyond weak
Bon giorno's attacking Knox's interpreter = not a good idea = makes her own case ridiculous, because people are not so stupid as to simply believe that all of this shit must have happened because of the interpreter's wickedness

FAIL

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 47s
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : " Guede broke into three apartments, each time during a holiday period"
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
I reckon Sollecito isall set to disappear again after today, of course he isn't going to say that, but look what he did before. Why would he have gone thousands of miles away, when he should have been, for his own good, directly available to his lawyer?


I guess papa Sollecito will find out his son is on his way back to the Dominican Republic when they stop him at the airport again.



Right

only I got to thinking this time he'll avoid that little scene (when he got pulled up and checked last time as he must at that moment not knowing if they would let him leave, have shat himself) even though he knew he was free to travel.

So I think he'll try to leave quietly, there are borders that you can just drive across nowadays without even getting stopped or checked. Since he knows the way in France, at least, at the airport, he may want to return there, but it may be in a car that he travels, then by plane back to the DR.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 6s
Bongiorno built and waded through a complex building of arguments employing extreme rhetoric devices, seemed to be in difficulty to me

In other words, Bongiorno's rhetoric isn't convincing....
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Bon giorno's attacking the Supreme Court = not a good idea = beyond weak
Bon giorno's attacking Knox's interpreter = not a good idea = makes her own case ridiculous, because people are not so stupid as to simply believe that all of this shit must have happened because of the interpreter's wickedness

FAIL


I couldn't believe she was suggesting Anna Donnino acted as a psychic rather than an interpreter. Absolutely outlandish.

Bongiorno spent little time on the actual evidence and focussed more on domineering Knox and the evil media.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 31s
Process Meredith , Bongiorno (Sollecito's defense) : " The attack on Meredith takes place at 21.10 when Raffaele is home "

*sigh*

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 46s
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "I am convinced that Meredith's murderer is Rudy who has already been convicted "

La Nazione @ 1m qn_lanazione
Meredith process , Bongiorno ( Sollecito defense ) : " Amanda and Raffaele are innocent "
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 4m
She had opened her arguments by quoting Sardinian judge and author Salvatore Satta, to me the choice suggests setting a desperate defence

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Bongiorno offers the known arguments to maintain an early time of death. But it's late for me

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 23s
Bongiorno relies on her "personal belief" as last argument. Bye bye!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith process, Sollecito's defence : "Amanda and Raffaele innocent, acquit"
By Roberto Davide Papini

(Google translation will follow soon)

LA NAZIONE
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m
Bongiorno closing finish: Turn Amanda off. Acquit them both, but judge Raffaele Sollecito for who he is, not for half-truths against him

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m
Leaving court, Raffaele Sollecito and father expressed satisfaction w/closing args. Perugia atty Maori to close nxt hearing, Jan.20.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Bon giorno's attacking the Supreme Court = not a good idea = beyond weak
Bon giorno's attacking Knox's interpreter = not a good idea = makes her own case ridiculous, because people are not so stupid as to simply believe that all of this shit must have happened because of the interpreter's wickedness

FAIL


I couldn't believe she was suggesting Anna Donnino acted as a psychic rather than an interpreter. Absolutely outlandish.

Bongiorno spent little time on the actual evidence and focussed more on domineering Knox and the evil media.


Yes, then combining that with the attacks on the Supreme Court itself must be the dumbest thing to do, since Nencini knows his position and that of everyobne else, what, should he ignore the supreme court and just allow his own court to furnish a re-run of the Hellmann ruling? He'd have to be nuts, and, he is not.

Also, she comes up with a line about the eskimos and the judge may laugh but she cannot know why he is laughing, he was laughing because her attempt there, was absolutely cringeworthily retarded, trying to make a play on comedy, and funny sounding words is not the way she should be trying to make her case, the words about the eskimo, namely, sounded just like bunga bunga or some such laughable phrase, I'm sure the good judge was laughing about how nuts it is for her, who worked with Mr Bunga himself... Berlusconi, to come out with such a lot of nonsense at a time like this.. then several sentences later, after he'd said he needed it explained since he was over 50 years of age, she launches an insult to him directly, by saying that everyone tried to portray Knox as this sexually promiscuous type but she wasn't a bored 50 year old.
DUH.

Really, I do not think Bongiorno is as great as some said she was, not at all.

She starts into talking about DNA and so on, she has no training in it, and makes no good and clearly understandable points in it. Her muddying of the waters, means her points can be checked later on and rendered invalid, so what is the use of talking crap at a time like this?

Trying to confuse and short circuit the lay judges' by making them tired is all well and good but when someone comes along (the prosecution) talking in easy to understand jargon, then that type of data will be absorbed.

Bongiorno speaking in tongues, means that the lay judges will not have any lights switching on in their heads nor will they be thinking, wow, yeah hey, yeah that's it.

I think they will --what with the knowledge they've already had to work on and with the court clerk's explanations of law-- have been thinking, Fuck, when will she be done.

Part of the court's obligation in Italy = providing explanations of points of law through the appointed court clerk who are obliged to provide the lay judges with the info they need in order to grasp the laws so that they can make good decisions on the basis of a proper understanding of the laws so that the lay judges do not battle with trying to understand stuff that they have not been trained to do.

This is the difference with JURORS and JURY SYSTEMS (which do not exist in Italy).

Italy: The court clerk's info and explanations coupled with the trained judges' guidance, mean the lay judges mean it is not as easy to fool the non-professional judges; when the court retires anything they did not fully understand will be explained by the professional judges and the clerk, so it is nothing like a jury system where the jurors are citizens with no understanding of law and get no help either.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 39s
Leaving court, raffaele sollecito and father expressed satisfaction w/closing args. Perugia atty Maori to close nxt hearing, Jan.20.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks for today's tweets, guermantes :)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:



La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 46s
Process Meredith , Bongiorno ( Sollecito's defense ) : "I am convinced that Meredith's murderer is Rudy who has already been convicted"



This one is particularly pathetic, the high court pointed out explicitly, that this idea of a lone killer was unacceptable, so Bongiorno seems to have the Heavey mental disease, of thinking that she is above her superiors.

What use is it to argue in this way when the high court will throw out any ruling based on this idea?

Still, her invoices will be paid.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks from me too Guermantes, that's quite a job to do.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

From the telegraph article Nell posted upthread:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... uilty.html

"Even if I'd turned up naked and doing a dance, that would not have meant that I was an assassin," she [AK] said. "The prosecution's case was based on conjecture and supposition, not on evidence."

(Can't she spare us her fantasies about her nudity/sexiness for once? It's boring.)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito Senior: She was great eh son, anyhow, your step-mum has made your favourite pork for dinner, let's get home eh

Son: Er, mm, yes, well I have an appointment papa, tell her to keep it warm in the oven for me

Sollecito Senior: Okay, don't be long

Son: No, of course not

Next day in the middle of the night

Ring ring ring ring

Sollecito Senior: Cazzo, pronto, chi è questo

Son: It's me pa

Sollecito senior: Cazzo, dove sei, la cena è bruciato

Son: I just popped over to the DR to pick up my toothbrush papa

Sollecito senior: Well your dinner it's burnt and your step-mother threw it away

Son: Sorry dad

Sollecito Senior: Well don't do it again. When will you be back?

Son: I'm having trouble locating my toothbrush dad.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks to Yummi too :)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

'I want to tell them I had nothing to do with the murder': Amanda Knox begs to meet the Kercher family and profess her innocence over the death of their daughter
By Nick Pisa
PUBLISHED: 15:15 GMT, 9 January 2014 | UPDATED: 15:41 GMT, 9 January 2014
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... cence.html

Mandy says:

’I want to speak to them. I want to tell them I had nothing to do with Meredith's death, that I liked her and we were friends.

’It was a really painful decision not to attend the retrial. I wanted to come. I wanted to be present in court.

’I know they believe I am the killer of their daughter. They are convinced that I murdered her and so even now it's not the right time to speak with them.
‘That day will come and I hope it will come soon after my innocence has been definitely proved.’

’I have spoken to Raffaele... he is more optimistic than me. If I am convicted then I will be, as they say, on the run.’
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Thanks for today's tweets, guermantes :)


zorba wrote:
Thanks from me too Gurmantes, that's quite a job to do.


Thanks for your thanks, guys. Feeling a bit drained and knackered; thoroughly worn out, indeed, but it was a good day today. Foxy Knoxy is toast, and so is Raffa Solaries.

The only minus: I've acquired malware somewhere along the way and will need to run an antivirus scan and clean up my comp next.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Ava wrote:
Thanks for today's tweets, guermantes :)


zorba wrote:
Thanks from me too Guermantes, that's quite a job to do.


Thanks for your thanks, guys. Feeling a bit drained and knackered; thoroughly worn out, indeed, but it was a good day today. Foxy Knoxy is toast, and so is Raffa Solaries.

The only minus: I've acquired malware somewhere along the way and will need to run an antivirus scan and clean up my comp next.



Hi Guermentes, can imagine you're tired, I'm tired and haven't done a thing, must be the January cold, rain and early dark days, think I'll have a beer and go back to bed.

Do you know Spybot?

It is quite good at removing the add-on stuff, the tracking cookies, etc.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

That's all CBS's Crimesider can say about today's closing arguments:

Sollecito not Amanda Knox's "puppy," defense tells court

CBS NEWS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito not Amanda Knox's "puppy", defense tells court
ReutersBy Silvia Ognibene | Reuters – 27 minutes ago
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/amanda-knox-39 ... 29299.html

Summary of today's court hearing.

This is kind of a weird analogy:
"For some investigators, the first suspects are like first loves: never forgotten," she [Bongiorno] said.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
'I want to tell them I had nothing to do with the murder': Amanda Knox begs to meet the Kercher family and profess her innocence over the death of their daughter
By Nick Pisa
PUBLISHED: 15:15 GMT, 9 January 2014 | UPDATED: 15:41 GMT, 9 January 2014
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... cence.html

Mandy says:

’I want to speak to them. I want to tell them I had nothing to do with Meredith's death, that I liked her and we were friends.

’It was a really painful decision not to attend the retrial. I wanted to come. I wanted to be present in court.

’I know they believe I am the killer of their daughter. They are convinced that I murdered her and so even now it's not the right time to speak with them.
‘That day will come and I hope it will come soon after my innocence has been definitely proved.’

’I have spoken to Raffaele... he is more optimistic than me. If I am convicted then I will be, as they say, on the run.’



Hi Ava,

She really is dense though isn't she, I say this because I have seen that she gets an idea and even when others make it clear they do not believe her and make it clear how fake it sounds to them, she keeps on with it, refusingto respect their opinion and wishes.

If she had any brain at all she'd have been able to work out that the Kercher's know all about her and what she says she feels and wants and they are NOT INTERESTED, yet she goes on and on, that going on and on is the point that things get real creepy with her, it reflects what the dynamic --involved on the night Meredith died-- was, since Knox refuses to take no for an answer and imagines she can pester and harass people to do what she wants.

So I thank her for making it absolutely clear how her mind works.

First murder a person then stalk the person's family.

Was looking at a whole range of people in America who had murdered their children, their partners, then gone on TV for as long as they got away with it, and they equalled Knox in the acting, the turning on the tears and oh I'm so upset game, later when they were convicted and the truth was revealed, all of what they'd done was shown in its true perspective, them being he killers then having the brazen-faced audacity to go on TV and appeal for the killers to let the missing loved one go, etc. Much of what was shown, provided a glimpse into how the person pretending to be upset, appealing on TV, etc., started to blame other people.

Think I'll go and find what I was looking at, it was so relevant and similar to Knox's behaviour, and Sollecito's too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito defense says couple blamed to calm fears
By Colleen Barry

Defender Giulia Bongiorno said her client, Raffaele Sollecito, and Knox were identified as suspects in a “record” four days after the murder in the picturesque central town of Perugia because authorities “did not want to think that a stranger, a monster, could have entered a house and murdered a student.”

Sollecito sat placidly at her side throughout.


WILD ABOUT TRIAL
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Sollecito not Amanda Knox's "puppy", defense tells court
ReutersBy Silvia Ognibene | Reuters – 27 minutes ago
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/amanda-knox-39 ... 29299.html

Summary of today's court hearing.

This is kind of a weird analogy:
"For some investigators, the first suspects are like first loves: never forgotten," she [Bongiorno] said.



Her analogies are ridiculous, is the ones before weren't bad enough now she tried to instil in the minds of the lay judges the idea of a mediaeval witch hunt when all the time the lay judges are fully aware of ALL of the evidence ao what's the use of insulting their intellects?


The best insult by her today in all of her alleged cleverness, was getting the judge to have to remark, mm, I need that explained since I am more than 50 years old and then her, a few sentences further on, when trying to make some other point about Knox, says, Knox wasn't some bored 50 year old

So how fantastic and ghow talented is Bongiorno in real term if she makes stupid own goals lioke this, I mean this was an insult to the judge.

So she puts him into the over 50 must be bored so creates wild stories category, which is just so ridiculous, you cannot categorise people that way by lowering one to heighten the other. In her desperation she could not even get her lines straight and before she could stop herself, she insulted the presiding judge.

Why could she, why could she, assume that all 50 year olds are bored, so she meant that the prosecutor made everything up about Knox simply because he was over 50 and bored but Knox was not.

I'm sure the High Court will much appreciate her rantings about their invalid status, having got things wrong according to her, that will certainly help Sollecito's case... NOT.

Bongiorno had nothing to contribute and was desperate, she had to be seen to be doing her job, those invoices she sends off to Mr Sollecito are not small.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks for the updates, guermantes, and thanks to Yummi for the tweets from the court. Yes, there was a lot of drama from Bongiorno, yet the focus was on Amanda Knox, and not her bored looking client.

Regarding the malware, yes, Spybot Search and Destroy is an excellent program. Twitter users have found their accounts hacked and links sent under their name to their address list, and Yahoo Mail users also reported malware through the ads that come with it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Bongiorno - Show: Attack on investigators (VIDEO)

LA REPUBBLICA TV
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bongiorno essentially repeated her performance at Cassazione (less the waving of knives at the jury :) where I thought Luca Maori did a far better job. We'll see how he does January 20.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Importing this news from .org - on January 7 on her blog, Knox admitted to having staged a robbery to prank her UW roommates :shock:

(Image: courtesy of Piktor)

Attachment:
Knox prank.png


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
Sollecito not Amanda Knox's "puppy", defense tells court
ReutersBy Silvia Ognibene | Reuters – 27 minutes ago
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/amanda-knox-39 ... 29299.html

Summary of today's court hearing.

This is kind of a weird analogy:
"For some investigators, the first suspects are like first loves: never forgotten," she [Bongiorno] said.



Her analogies are ridiculous, is the ones before weren't bad enough now she tried to instil in the minds of the lay judges the idea of a mediaeval witch hunt when all the time the lay judges are fully aware of ALL of the evidence ao what's the use of insulting their intellects?


The best insult by her today in all of her alleged cleverness, was getting the judge to have to remark, mm, I need that explained since I am more than 50 years old and then her, a few sentences further on, when trying to make some other point about Knox, says, Knox wasn't some bored 50 year old

So how fantastic and ghow talented is Bongiorno in real term if she makes stupid own goals lioke this, I mean this was an insult to the judge.

So she puts him into the over 50 must be bored so creates wild stories category, which is just so ridiculous, you cannot categorise people that way by lowering one to heighten the other. In her desperation she could not even get her lines straight and before she could stop herself, she insulted the presiding judge.

Why could she, why could she, assume that all 50 year olds are bored, so she meant that the prosecutor made everything up about Knox simply because he was over 50 and bored but Knox was not.

I'm sure the High Court will much appreciate her rantings about their invalid status, having got things wrong according to her, that will certainly help Sollecito's case... NOT.

Bongiorno had nothing to contribute and was desperate, she had to be seen to be doing her job, those invoices she sends off to Mr Sollecito are not small.


Hi zorba,
definitely an own goal, I noticed that too. And it wasn't only about being bored, but sexually bored vs. Amanda and Raffaele behaving like tender eskimos...(the term "eskimos" is not pc, afaik).
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith, Raffaele Sollecito, staying in Italy (VIDEO: Sollecito Sr. & Jr. sun-) , arriving in court this morning)

LA REPUBBLICA TV
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Importing this news from .org - on January 7 on her blog, Knox admitted to having staged a robbery to prank her UW roommates :shock:

(Image: courtesy of Piktor)

Attachment:
Knox prank.png


Wow. That story is as damaging as the rape prank previously mentioned. So many parallels. pp-(
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:
Sollecito not Amanda Knox's "puppy", defense tells court
ReutersBy Silvia Ognibene | Reuters – 27 minutes ago
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/amanda-knox-39 ... 29299.html

Summary of today's court hearing.

This is kind of a weird analogy:
"For some investigators, the first suspects are like first loves: never forgotten," she [Bongiorno] said.



Her analogies are ridiculous, is the ones before weren't bad enough now she tried to instil in the minds of the lay judges the idea of a mediaeval witch hunt when all the time the lay judges are fully aware of ALL of the evidence what purpose does hurling insults at their intellects serve?


The best insult by her today in all of her alleged cleverness, was getting the judge to have to remark, mm, I need that explained since I am more than 50 years old and then her, a few sentences further on, when trying to make some other point about Knox, says, Knox wasn't some bored 50 year old

So how fantastic and how talented is Bongiorno in real term if she makes stupid own goals like this, I mean this was an insult to the judge.

So she puts him into the over 50 must be bored so creates wild stories category, which is just so ridiculous, you cannot categorise people that way by lowering one to heighten the other. In her desperation she could not even get her lines straight and before she could stop herself, she insulted the presiding judge.

Why could she, why could she, assume that all 50 year olds are bored, so she meant that the prosecutor made everything up about Knox simply because he was over 50 and bored but Knox was not.

I'm sure the High Court will much appreciate her rantings about their invalid status, having got things wrong according to her, that will certainly help Sollecito's case... NOT.

Bongiorno had nothing to contribute and was desperate, she had to be seen to be doing her job, those invoices she sends off to Mr Sollecito are not small.


Hi zorba,
definitely an own goal, I noticed that too. And it wasn't only about being bored, but sexually bored vs. Amanda and Raffaele behaving like tender Eskimos...(the term "Eskimos" is not pc, afaik).



Thanks Ava,

That's what I meant, in relation to that idea of the prosecutor being some kind of old pervert, and the people on trial for murder being cute little bunny wabbitty [<<<---this is not sic, rabbit, rabbit, rabbit, this is on purpose] nose rubbing angels.
That is so lame, to place all the blame on the law. And the prosecutor IS the law; he/she is sworn to uphold it and defend it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I was surprised to read Amanda Knox's 'burglary prank' admission a few days ago. This was on her post addressed to the Kercher family. Thanks to the commenters who got her to reply about the allegations first posted on Charles Mudede's blog many years go. I see also that instead of replying to whether ski masks were worn, she says "no disguises" were used.

Another commenter on Mudede's blog made comments bout her sexuality as well. Another interesting piece to fill in the blanks about her complex psychology.

Did she steal Meredith's money? Did she head out to the flat with the intention of committing another very stupid prank? Or were her motives darker? But Meredith did hit her on the nose, and she stabbed her in return. I would have no problem finding her guilty of murder and sexual assault, were I on the jury.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
The part I watched, Sollecito looked bored, uninterested, he seemed to stare at objects rather than looking at a person. He also yawned and rubbed his eyes often.

I wonder, so many people are working so many hours voluntarily to get him off the hook but he seems unfaszed from the whole proceedings. He looks bored.

I wonder what he thinks, if he thinks at all?

The live-stream is interrupted now, I guess they are having a break.


Sollecito's lawyers are being paid. Knox's lawyers I don't know but I expect they also are being paid.

Sollecito knows he is going to be convicted. He knows this is all for nothing so he likely is bored. He is watching a movie in which he (and everyone else) already know the ending.


Sorry, when I wrote the post, I just came back from Twitter and had more his fan support group in mind than his lawyers. I should have made that clear. Of course his lawyers don't work for free.

What I meant to say is that others seem to care more about him than he himself. I would not want to be labelled a murderer, so I would be listening carefully and intently in court to what is said, not arriving with a smile from ear to ear only to fall asleep once the proceedings start.

One has to see it to believe it.


He seems to be on medication.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
I was surprised to read Amanda Knox's 'burglary prank' admission a few days ago. This was on her post addressed to the Kercher family. Thanks to the commenters who got her to reply about the allegations first posted on Charles Mudede's blog many years go. I see also that instead of replying to whether ski masks were worn, she says "no disguises" were used.

Another commenter on Mudede's blog made comments bout her sexuality as well. Another interesting piece to fill in the blanks about her complex psychology.

Did she steal Meredith's money? Did she head out to the flat with the intention of committing another very stupid prank? Or were her motives darker? But Meredith did hit her on the nose, and she stabbed her in return. I would have no problem finding her guilty of murder and sexual assault, were I on the jury.

Yeah, I think Meredith got a slug in...Amanda leaned into mirror to examine damage...blood dropped on faucet. Just an idea...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox: I’ll Be A Fugitive If They Convict Me
By Barbie Latza Nadeau

THE DAILY BEAST
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
I was surprised to read Amanda Knox's 'burglary prank' admission a few days ago. This was on her post addressed to the Kercher family. Thanks to the commenters who got her to reply about the allegations first posted on Charles Mudede's blog many years go. I see also that instead of replying to whether ski masks were worn, she says "no disguises" were used.

Another commenter on Mudede's blog made comments bout her sexuality as well. Another interesting piece to fill in the blanks about her complex psychology.

Did she steal Meredith's money? Did she head out to the flat with the intention of committing another very stupid prank? Or were her motives darker? But Meredith did hit her on the nose, and she stabbed her in return. I would have no problem finding her guilty of murder and sexual assault, were I on the jury.


Verily, everyone with ears, say ere ere, before, there had only been the tale, alas, now hath trollop confirmed it providing exclusive details, she must be uncontrollable because family would have said, now you just keep your cake hole shut right!

She said right.

Then when they left she got online immediately to show her capacity for abuse, addressing those most distressed, Meredith's family, thereafter providing the wonderful, playful scenario to charm her friends, scaring the life out of your roommates, oh what fun that must be having such a delight in your midst, fucking with your head, and playing about with your possessions, with no RIGHT to even touch them.

The fact that she actually goes and reacts and records it for all posterity says something but I can't quite put my finger on it, oh yeah, I remember...

The executioner pulled the rope and the guillotine went whoosh and came to a crashing halt halfway down.

The executioner set it up again and had the prisoner place his head on the block once more, the henchman pulled the rope and the razor-sharp guillotine came crashing down like thunder, coming to a mighty halt, halfway down.

The executioner was just about to set it up again when the condemned man looked up and cried out, "Wait a moment, I think I see the trouble!"

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
'I want to tell them I had nothing to do with the murder': Amanda Knox begs to meet the Kercher family and profess her innocence over the death of their daughter
By Nick Pisa
PUBLISHED: 15:15 GMT, 9 January 2014 | UPDATED: 15:41 GMT, 9 January 2014
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... cence.html

Mandy says:

’I want to speak to them. I want to tell them I had nothing to do with Meredith's death, that I liked her and we were friends.

’It was a really painful decision not to attend the retrial. I wanted to come. I wanted to be present in court.

’I know they believe I am the killer of their daughter. They are convinced that I murdered her and so even now it's not the right time to speak with them.
‘That day will come and I hope it will come soon after my innocence has been definitely proved.’

’I have spoken to Raffaele... he is more optimistic than me. If I am convicted then I will be, as they say, on the run.’


How many version did Amanda Knox give to excuse herself from her own appeal? I count four so far.

I won't attend my own appeal because ...

1) it will only unnecessarily distract the judges.
2) I am studying and have a boyfriend. I moved on with my life.
3) I cannot afford a plane ticket to travel to Italy.
4) I don't trust the Italian justice system anymore and I am afraid of what will happen.

Why even talk about it? We all knew she wouldn't be in Italy for her appeal, because she is guilty and fears she could be arrested. She had been deemed a flight risk and she has proven the judge to be right. They made the right decision then.

The truth is, she will never meet the Kerchers, because they will stay in England for the rest of their lives and Amanda Knox will be on the run without any realistic opportunity to return to Europe without being caught and brought to justice.

Hellmann was a one time opportunity, he is now retired. After all the scandals they've caused, they hoped the Italians wouldn't want to bother with her anymore and sign the acquittal silently off, but that's not what happened.

Life as she knows it is no more. That's what happens when you rape and murder your roommate. Nobody's fault but hers.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
The part I watched, Sollecito looked bored, uninterested, he seemed to stare at objects rather than looking at a person. He also yawned and rubbed his eyes often.

I wonder, so many people are working so many hours voluntarily to get him off the hook but he seems unfaszed from the whole proceedings. He looks bored.

I wonder what he thinks, if he thinks at all?

The live-stream is interrupted now, I guess they are having a break.


Maybe Ergon is right about Raff being medicated.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Ava wrote:
Thanks for today's tweets, guermantes :)


zorba wrote:
Thanks from me too Gurmantes, that's quite a job to do.


Thanks for your thanks, guys. Feeling a bit drained and knackered; thoroughly worn out, indeed, but it was a good day today. Foxy Knoxy is toast, and so is Raffa Solaries.

The only minus: I've acquired malware somewhere along the way and will need to run an antivirus scan and clean up my comp next.


Sorry, it was so early in the morning where I live, I just logged off without saying anything. Thank you! Great coverage.

The video link was especially entertaining. I heard Bongiorno was a good orator, able to fascinate the audience, but yesterday she probably wasn't in her best form. She scratched her nose all the time while Sollecito was sitting next to her looking bored and even yawning. Bongiorno raised her voice a few times to create some drama, but it failed to convince. Nothing could make up for the lack of arguments.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
I was surprised to read Amanda Knox's 'burglary prank' admission a few days ago. This was on her post addressed to the Kercher family. Thanks to the commenters who got her to reply about the allegations first posted on Charles Mudede's blog many years go. I see also that instead of replying to whether ski masks were worn, she says "no disguises" were used.

Another commenter on Mudede's blog made comments bout her sexuality as well. Another interesting piece to fill in the blanks about her complex psychology.

Did she steal Meredith's money? Did she head out to the flat with the intention of committing another very stupid prank? Or were her motives darker? But Meredith did hit her on the nose, and she stabbed her in return. I would have no problem finding her guilty of murder and sexual assault, were I on the jury.


Especially since the groupies have spent over 6 years denying that report. They would argue to the death that it was a nasty rumor made up by PMF. Uh oh... it wasn't.

AK... the gift of guilt that just keeps on giving. Our theories of a 'prank' were right on the mark all along.

IMO the text from Patrick was her 'final straw'... and anger took the place of any 'fun' for her that was supposed/intended to come of it.

IMO I believe she also knew something of RG's past troubles and used that information.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Importing this news from .org - on January 7 on her blog, Knox admitted to having staged a robbery to prank her UW roommates :shock:

(Image: courtesy of Piktor)

Attachment:
Knox prank.png


Who would have thought that from all rumours this would be one that turns out to be true. How stupid is she to confirm this?
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I think maybe they should have admitted early on to the prank... but then again I just don't know.

It sure has some common factors: staging a break-in, messing up rooms, denial.

No wonder they avoided it like a land mine.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Ava wrote:
Thanks for today's tweets, guermantes :)


zorba wrote:
Thanks from me too Gurmantes, that's quite a job to do.


Thanks for your thanks, guys. Feeling a bit drained and knackered; thoroughly worn out, indeed, but it was a good day today. Foxy Knoxy is toast, and so is Raffa Solaries.

The only minus: I've acquired malware somewhere along the way and will need to run an antivirus scan and clean up my comp next.

You are not alone when it comes to being drained. Most of us are. Thanks for your efforts pp-(
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
I think maybe they should have admitted early on to the prank... but then again I just don't know.

It sure has some common factors: staging a break-in, messing up rooms, denial.

No wonder they avoided it like a land mine.


The admission of the prank was a very stupid idea, like everything Amanda Knox says or does basically.

The prank story as being told by the person who leaked it is not in accord with what Amanda Knox now claims. Everyone has written that story off as rumour that might or might not have happened. People have already discarded it because there was no proof to substantiate the claim.

What does Amanda Knox? She confirms it. Now she has lend credence to the person who leaked it.

Your choice to believe the version of the compulsive liar Amanda Knox or Joh's. The ski mask prank is back on the table thanks to Knox. Stupid is as stupid does.

Maybe someone should ask her about the bank deposit of the rent money as well ...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Importing this news from .org - on January 7 on her blog, Knox admitted to having staged a robbery to prank her UW roommates :shock:

(Image: courtesy of Piktor)

Attachment:
Knox prank.png


Who would have thought that from all rumours this would be one that turns out to be true. How stupid is she to confirm this?


Did ya mean this one Nell, the second photo?

Attachment:
imagesCA70QTBX.jpg


Image


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I reckon the good judge would have loved to throttle her for talking such a lot of crap and insulting his intelligence, but he had to pretty much just listen to her ridicolously feeble lines, he looks upset and red-faced, like who is gonna shut this delicious cow up.

That about the Supreme Court, that is very disturbing that after everything they said, she is denying and refusing to accept it, which is in the end going to be more a case of a grand headache for her client, as based on this, they might just as well have all sent a few e-mails to the judge.

If you were to ask this judge, right now, what he'd have preferred, her going off like she'd just escaped from a loony bin, or receiving an e-mail, two e-mails, call it three, he'd have said, fill my spam box right up, you lunatic, I will now have nightmares thinking of your awful teeth threatening me like a Nile crocodile.

Tonight I sleep with the windows locked, a gun and a booby trap beside and around my bed, after ingesting a handful of Valium I will forget you and your shrieking = not the best result to leave a judge with.

Thank you lawyer, are you done.

Well good, fuck off then. Clerk, bring me some strong paracetamol I feel a mig coming on, thank you lawyer.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Very good coming up with that old and original JOH post Nell.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Be very nice to see JOH's post, then after that all of the Knox supporter denials, then her own post, new and fresh, confirming what her supporters denied.


The condemned: Wait a moment executioner, I think I see the trouble!!!!!

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
I think maybe they should have admitted early on to the prank... but then again I just don't know.

It sure has some common factors: staging a break-in, messing up rooms, denial.

No wonder they avoided it like a land mine.


Don't forget her attempt to cause anguish to roomies
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/09/amanda-knox-i-ll-be-a-fugitive-if-they-convict-me.html


Last edited by ttrroonniicc on Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

revised list

#1 bathmat footprint (indisputeably Sollecito)
#2 window rock. improbability of entry
#3 cleanup happened .. bathmat footprint no footprints around
#4 multiple conflicting alibis .. one lasting years
#5 phone evidence
#6 computer evidence
#7 strong witnesses (7am why knox walking around)

just one list, take your pick.

why are they out there.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Recap of today's closing arguments:

Meredith Process, Sollecito's Defense: "Amanda and Raffaele are innocent, acquit. Rudy Guede is the sole murderer."
By Roberto Davide Papini

Unofficial Google translation:

Part 1

"Against Raffaele Sollecito, there are no real clues, keep in mind that a trial must have proof, here are just clues. It's time to assess what are the charges against Sollecito. He and Amanda are innocent. Absolve them. "

So the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno in her speech of more than six hours in defense of Raffaele Sollecito, accused (along with Amanda Knox) for the murder of Meredith Kercher (the English girl who was killed on November 1, 2007 in Perugia), in the appeal process-bis being held in Florence. For "complicity" in this murder has already been convicted Rudy Guede, sentenced to 16 years in a fast-track trial.

The lawyer Bongiorno began her speech by quoting a horde of ferocious executioners of the French Revolution , recalling how, after the acquittal of the two accused on appeal , " an angry mob surrounded us defense lawyers, people who hadn’t read a single page of trial documentation. "

According to Bongiorno "Raffaele Sollecito was immediately branded as a murderer , only four days later without any clue, any concrete evidence . Investigators had chosen the ideal motive , the one that would reassure everyone so that it would cause less fear in Perugia , not a monster entering at night an apartment and violently killing a student , but that of a red lights party gone awry. Investigators had followed Lombrosian criteria, starting from an ideal motive of the party that ended badly, Amanda seemed to be the perfect culprit, so American, so uninhibited and sexy. yet with a sexy name , such as ' Foxy Knoxy ' , but it is a nickname that depends on her ability to dribble playing football (soccer)."

Bongiorno , starting to show a series of slides , then back on the shoe prints found at the crime scene : " They have been attributed to Raffaele, a blunder "

Returning to the memorial and the interrogation on the night when Amanda brings up unfairly the name of Patrick Lumumba, Bongiorno reminds everyone that Amanda puts herself at the crime scene ( " therefore , absurd to think that she wants to throw the investigation off track" ), and that everything happens " without a lawyer , with investigators that put pressure on her ( two of them made offensive remarks against aunts of Sollecito, while listening to intercepts of their phone calls ) and with an interpreter that does not just translate, but, as she herself admits , plays the role of a medium, mediator, to help the person understand her needs instead of representing her . "

In short, the lawyer Bongiorno said the interpreter ( recalling a personal matter , a serious trauma that led her to not remember anything) suggested to Amanda to make those statements.

" Amanda , however - continues Bongiorno - never pulls in Raffaele Sollecito , even when the investigators say he has accused her ."

For Sollecito’s lawyer , " the motive in this process is considered optional, but may not be so in a process of circumstantial evidence . Attorney General cunningly changes it from a red light party to a confrontation over cleanliness in the house and to immoderate use of toilet by Rudy Guede . But what about Raffaele who has known Amanda for only 9 days , who does not know Rudy Guede and has nothing to do with these quarrels in a house that he has just begun to frequent ? " . Moreover, stresses Bongiorno, Amanda and Raffaele were together for nine days and their relationship was sweet : " They rubbed their noses, in a kind of Eskimos kiss. They were "Unca Unca ", not the "bunga bunga ."

Bongiorno continues : " The witness who spoke of a friendship between Raffaele and Rudy Guede was denied , absurd to think that the two got acquainted that night and if the motive was the red lights party gone wrong , of course Guede (who was recently stopped for his behavior ) would not have been invited . "

Regarding an attempt at misdirection of which they (Amanda and Raffaele) are accused (for saying that they called 112 before the arrival of the police, and according to the prosecution would have done it later) with more slides and a time reconstruction by surveillance camera, close to the house where the crime took place , says that , instead , " the call to the police took place before the police had arrived and just before Rafaele urged Amanda to call Meredith , and then her friends, to see what had happened in the house where they found strange things ".

According to Bongiorno, then , "no expertise speaks of a presence of more subjects at the crime scene . No expert says that , as there are different types of wounds, then there must have been more people to hit Meredith ."


LA NAZIONE

To be continued...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Cont'd

Part 2

After the break, Bongiorno addresses the issue of the DNA found on the bra clasp of the victim and attributed , in the first instance, to Sollecito. The lawyer highlights the fact that the bra hook was not found in the first of the two inspections ( divided by 46 days ) and that between the two inspections about twenty people (obviously investigators ) came into the room where the murder took place . "They were moving so many things , so many things, and the hook was found only during the second inspection after being touched inappropriately at least 14 times and then put back on the ground," says Bongiorno showing photos and video clips taken during the inspections .

" From the pictures and the comparison of the hook in the first survey (appears in the video, but is not bagged , ed) it is clear that the hook has been moved , touched with dirty gloves and stepped on ," says Bongiorno . "So, continues Sollecito’s lawyer, that is how the bra hook was caught up in a landfill ."

Bongiorno drew attention to the way in which the traces of DNA were found on the clasp ( " a trace commingled with more than two profiles present ), claiming that mistakes were made in reading the data , "a lack of a second amplification " and that " you are not getting the DNA of Sollecito on the clasp, but it started from Sollecito's DNA to see if he could somehow be compatible with that jumble of genetic profiles . "

Challenged by the defense even the murder weapon : "It is not the knife found in Raffaele's house, continues Bongiorno, the depth of the wound is not compatible with the length of the knife." According to Bongiorno , therefore, the murder weapon was a boxcutter much shorter , with a blade of 8 cm .

Then the footprint of the foot on the bathmat , the accusation attributed to Raffaele: "Fortunately Raffaele has a physical defect that leads him to not support the final part of the big toe . This footprint is not compatible with this defect ( also here Bongiorno shows some photos), so it can’t be Sollecito's . " Bongiorno , then considers it plausible that someone ( in this case, Rudy Guede ) had entered the apartment through a window after it was broken as was done in three other apartments, always during holiday periods or on holiday eves . In her reconstruction Bongiorno explains that aggression on the part of Guede against the victim took place at around 21:10 and Meredith Kercher was hit from behind.

The prosecution , represented by the PG Alessandro Crini , has requested a sentence of 30 years for Knox (26 for murder and 4 for defamation against Patrick Lumumba ) and 26 for Sollecito.

Meanwhile , the strike of the lawyers also postpones hearings and verdict of the trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher . In fact, the schedule of hearings has also undergone some changes due to organizational needs of the Court of Florence where we attend the appeal -bis.

On January 20 there will be rebuttals (initially planned for Friday, the 10th), while the 30 is reserved for the verdict (initially, deliberations were supposed to take place on January 15).
Until that time , Raffaele Sollecito said "I’m staying in Italy." He declined an answer to those who asked the accused if he is planning other trips before the end of the process.

Sollecito arrived in court in Florence early in the morning with his father, to mount a projector and a screen then used by his lawyers in their presentations . At the end of the hearing, Sollecito 's father , Francesco , confirms the intentions of his son: "I think he has already amply demonstrated that he has no reason , no intention to evade the process."

Before the today's hearing the lawyer Francesco Maresca, the Kercher family lawyer , commented on the willingness of Amanda Knox, according to some statements to the press , to meet the family of Meredith Kercher : " Amanda has to be a defendant and this is not the time to make statements [to the press] . " "We expect - added Maresca - a defense precise and punctual as usual. The Court has all the elements to decide. Items are always the ones that we presented in the first instance and that the Supreme Court has highlighted in their judgment ". To reporters who asked him if the family of Meredith would take part in the hearing when the verdict is announced , Maresca said: " For the verdict will probably be in the courtroom brother Lyle and sister
Stephanie ".


LA NAZIONE
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione videos (in Italian)

QUOTIDIANO.NET
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

What is with the extra long stares and silence? Is this a typical strategy for her. I was starting to get uncomfortable.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
What is with the extra long stares and silence? Is this a typical strategy for her. I was starting to get uncomfortable.

Imagine you are the judge. She looks like she is going to throw something at him. Scary :mrgreen: I think Maori will have some more technical arguments. This was just too much theater IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW_JkMaz2YI
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I can't get over her face, as shown in Piktor's portrait, I'm now not as much scared as struck by a laugh kick, as she does look potty with those facial strains abounding, no wonder her client pretended to be asleep.

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

No kidding max one minute she Is flirting with her Eskimo joke , then she slaps him down for being over 50. Staring and silence commands attention anyway.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

After this judge Nencini could have used a nice big fat joint to calm his nerves.
Others in the room look embarrassed, whatever does she think she will achieve by acting like one of the killers.

Stai tranquillo




Constipation?

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

She seemed somewhat unhappy for her out of court interview. Nothing she said it was just the way she delivered it. It almost looked like she had been crying or maybe was just exhausted. Mr Sollecito seemed quite happy as did Maresca!
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

yes it's all theatre
she said:
mi no frega niente - I don't give a damn

about this (in the paper) whatever it was, smashed it down but giving the judge heartburn will not make her his best pal. Even though of course it isn't about being buddies, I imagine he saw right through her and knew all about the way she is anyhow.

She has that reputation, but I think in real terms that reputation has been built up to be more than it actually is in reality, she just is not so fantastic, that is not the way to make people see angles, believe your take, etc.

But it was not spontaneous, to get that heated up, and then for it to come across as anti-climatic, means it's not real, she seemed to me to almost have a fit.

I don't know why she doesn't just set up a nice crèche, she can spend lots of time with her kid and calm down, she cannot need the dough.

What a difference a day made.. I mean look at the way Maresca explained his points and was animated, nothing like this trash.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
malvern wrote:
What is with the extra long stares and silence? Is this a typical strategy for her. I was starting to get uncomfortable.

Imagine you are the judge. She looks like she is going to throw something at him. Scary :mrgreen: I think Maori will have some more technical arguments. This was just too much theater IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW_JkMaz2YI


Lady lawyer beside Maresca (Serena Perna?) trying to stifle smirk.

Scientology stare? Nah. I'll ask Doug Bremner :)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
After this judge Nencini could have used a nice big fat joint to calm his nerves.
Others in the room look embarrassed, whatever does she think she will achieve by acting like one of the killers.

Stai tranquillo




Constipation?


Maresca, in the background, is definitely tweeting something. Is he Machiavelli? Ammunition for the Groupies?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sun is shining

hoo ra

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I have never heard before that Sollecito's defence admitted he in fact accused Amanda Knox which ultimately led to the couple's arrest.

Has there ever been an attempt to explain that circumstance?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Why does Amanda Knox taunt Kercher family?
Seattle : WA : USA | Jan 10, 2014 at 4:31 AM PST
By Chelsea Hoffman
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... her-family


"It seems that the freedom she's taking for granted right now is giving her a cocky sense of being above-the-law (at least Italian law), so she is sort of gloating and bragging by continually making her freedom known to the Kercher family.

With the verdict in her case just around the corner, it seems extremely foolish of Amanda to continue speaking out so brazenly like this. It's almost as if she's convinced her mind that she will not do another day of time for the murder of Meredith Kercher."
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ju·ry 1 (jr)
n. pl. ju·ries
1. Law A body of persons sworn to judge and give a verdict on a given matter, especially a body of persons summoned by law and sworn to hear and hand down a verdict upon a case presented in court.

[Middle English jure, from Anglo-Norman juree, from feminine past participle of jurer, to swear, from Latin iurare, from ius, iar-, law; see yewes- in Indo-European roots.]




[Zorba: Since in Italy this body is not independent of the professional judges, and the verdict is issued jointly (with the professional judges), one can never speak of a jury in Italian law, as the very idea in English speaking countries is of a team independent (consisting mostly of 12 jurors, untrained in law) of the professional judges, the jurors submitting their verdict, based on the evidence, guided by the judge, who has no say in the actual verdict = judge had no vote].

[Barbie N referred to the lay judges as lay jurors, but that makes no sense, they are not lay jurors since all jurors in law are never professionals, only the judges are trained in law, this is why lawyers are not allowed to sit in on jury panels. Professional jurors are found judging horse riding competitions, singing competitions, not law].


Latin

Alternative forms
jūrō
Etymology
From iūs (“law, duty”).

Pronunciation
(Classical) IPA(key): /ˈjuː.roː/
Verb
present active iūrō, present infinitive iūrāre, perfect active iūrāvī, supine iūrātum

I swear on oath; I vow.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.p ... 4-p-3.html


LondonJohn
31st December 2011, 02:18 AM

In other news a PG person wants the news media (steely-eyed reporter) to track down JOH the commenter that said Amanda had pranked someone at the UW. Perhaps Sharon Feinstein can track him down.

http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/ama ... xs_fiction

http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/end_of_an_affair

search for JOH and you too can read his comments

He says she broke into her apartment to prank the roommates - does anybody know if she ever lived in an apartment?


I would have to provisionally concluded [sic] that this story has no substance, for two main reasons:

1) There was an intense amount of media attention given to the case in the months after the murder (particularly amongst the UK press, which sent teams out to Seattle to dig for "background" on Knox). I would have thought it fairly unlikely that either a) someone in the media hadn't seen this comment and had at least attempted to seek out its author for verification, or b) the author himself would have contacted the media, which would have paid significant money for a story like that - particularly the UK press, who were basking in the luxury of no sub-judice ban on such reporting (since the judicial process was happening in Italy and not the UK) and who have notoriously large chequebooks for salacious stuff like that.

2) I am not entirely sure what the Italian rules are on "similar fact" evidence, but I should imagine that they are either very relaxed or non-existent, since Mignini went so far as to refer to Knox's party noise-and-rock-throwing ticket in the trial. Therefore, an alleged previous "rape prank" incident instigated by Knox might have been extremely germane to the prosecution case. Given that this incident was never presented in court, one can only suppose three possibilities:

a) prosecutors never even found out about the online comment;
b) prosecutors knew of the existence of this comment, but either chose not to pursue it or attempted to pursue it without being able to find the author;
c) prosecutors found the author, who admitted that the story was false once he was told that he was to be listed as a prosecution witness.


The non Londoner, London John, got it wrong.

Now confirmed by the prank director/producer herself.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jape wrote:
zorba wrote:
After this judge Nencini could have used a nice big fat joint to calm his nerves.
Others in the room look embarrassed, whatever does she think she will achieve by acting like one of the killers.

Stai tranquillo




Constipation?


Maresca, in the background, is definitely tweeting something. Is he Machiavelli? Ammunition for the Groupies?


The Amanda Groupies (Gropies? Gropers?) might have helped her better if they spent more time studying the case, and less time trying to find the identities of Harry Rag and Macchiavelli. The Maresca=Macchiavelli trope has been around for a long time, and as usual, they're far off the mark :)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
I have never heard before that Sollecito's defence admitted he in fact accused Amanda Knox which ultimately led to the couple's arrest.

Has there ever been an attempt to explain that circumstance?


It might be an error in the translation, Nell. I don't see Bongiorno distancing her client from Knox, just acknowledging that he did withdraw her alibi at one time.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox: I will become a 'fugitive' if re-convicted for murder (VIDEO)
Scott Stump
TODAY contributor
5 hours ago

Amanda Knox has reportedly told an Italian newspaper that if she is again convicted of murder, she will become a fugitive rather than return to an Italian prison.

A representative for Knox, 26, confirmed the interview with the Italian newspaper La Repubblica and released a statement to TODAY on Friday clarifying her comments.

“[If convicted] legally I'll be defined a ‘fugitive,’ but I will continue to fight for my innocence,’’ Knox said in the statement. “I will not willingly submit myself to injustice."
...
The Italian reporter who conducted the recent interview told TODAY’s Keir Simmons that Knox’s comments about becoming a fugitive may have been lighthearted, but making a joke about becoming a fugitive while closing arguments are being heard in a murder case may have been ill-advised.


TODAY
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

There's an excellent article on the TEK Journalism UK website about Amanda Knox admitting that she has staged a burglary:

http://www.tekjournalismuk.com/45/post/ ... ulary.html
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks for the link, TM!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Of course! Amanda should shut up...but I have always said "keep her talking", cause she will put her foot in it....just like she has done numerous times in the last year. FOA is busy busy busy, thanks to the freedom Amanda feels to speak.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Google translation of the full interview of Amanda Knox with La Repubblica's Meo Ponte.
(Nothing new in it, just for the record.)

The last battle of Amanda Knox : "This time I will be acquitted, then meet the parents of Meredith"
By Meo Ponte
9 January 2014

"I am an optimist but I am afraid. Every time I've believed my innocence would be recognized I have been found guilty." In Seattle is just past noon . Amanda Knox has just returned home from classes in creative writing at the University. The appointment for the interview on Skype. She appears in the video smiling behind large short-sighted glasses, short bob hair cut.

Insists on showing a shaggy cat that buzzes around and says, " This is Torrato. I have another that I called Amiel. Live with them , my boyfriend lives not far away but we do not live together and they are my true comfort . I know it sounds strange in Italian, but my life is , how shall I say , simple but not boring . "

The process in Florence that still sees you accused of murder is coming to an end. What do you expect ?

"What we have been expecting since 2007 that my innocence is recognized, that it is established once and for all that I did not kill my friend Meredith. I have been closely following this new process ordered by the Supreme Court through my lawyers , Carlo Dalla Vedova and Luciano Ghirga . New evidence has been examined but I don't believe any proof of my guilt has been found. As far as I'm aware the results were the opposite of what the prosecutors were hoping for. "

You decided not to participate in the process . You sent a written statement to the Court. Do you still think you made the right choice?

" Yes, even though it was a difficult choice because I really wanted to go to Italy and be present in the courtroom, speaking directly to the judges. I'm convinced that to be my only real defense for showing me what I am, so they can understand me to be innocent. in Italy, however, I was arrested and put in jail for four long years, it was not based on evidence but on assumptions. If I returned I am convinced I would have been put back in prison. This happened , I've lived it on my skin. They accused me of doing the cartwheel at the police station on the evening of the interrogation, they interpreted my laughter as evidence. I still wonder how it happened . Even if I had appeared at the police station naked and dancing that still would not mean that I was a murderer. "

According to the Attorney General of Florence the motive of the murder of Meredith is no longer linked to the sex game but a fight that broke out between you and Meredith because Rudy did not flush the toilet. What do you think ?

" What it comes down to is another conjecture , like the others. Meredith was not a person who argued with me about these things . Moreover, in all that time [they] have never been able to find traces of contacts between me , Raffaele and Rudy Guede . I had seen him twice in passing , Raffaele has never even met him. And without knowing him we participated in a murder with him? I've said it before : the accusation is based mainly on suggestions , conjecture , not on evidence . There is a saying in the United States : those of you dig your own grave . I got the impression that the prosecution has behaved well . But in the grave they had dug then [they] threw me. "

Have you ever talked to the family of Meredith , after the murder ?

" Not directly, even if I wanted to. When I saw them in the courtroom at the process of Perugia, I wanted to say hello and I asked my lawyer if I could do it. Lawyer Carlo Della Vedova tried to get close to them but their lawyers have rejected , saying it was not the time . Still want to talk to them, tell them directly that I had nothing to do with the death of Meredith , that I loved her and that we were friends . I know , however, that they believe I'm the killer of their daughter, are convinced that I killed her and then even now is still not the time to talk with them. But that day will come, I keep hoping. I want to talk to them, hug them, suffer because of their own pain. I hope it happens after my innocence has been finally recognized. "

Have you heard from Raffaele Sollecito recently ?

" Yes, and he feels much more optimistic than me. He believes in justice and is convinced that it will absolve him. He's also very religious and I think this will help him a lot. I'm a little less optimistic , I deceived myself too many times that the truth was recognized . I realized that a person can end up in what I call a whirl , be put on trial and then in prison without understanding why. I once loved novels , I have now found that it is better to study the reality , reason on facts. To succeed in the future I would like to explain to people how you can end up on the bench of the accused with ease despite being innocent. "

You said you wanted to talk to the judges of Florence. To say what?

" That the fact of being at my house here in Seattle does not make me feel good . I'll be really good only when my foreignness to the death of Meredith is officially recognized. I've said before : I'd come back for the trial. I miss Italy very much . But I'm afraid , I was in prison for four years without having done anything wrong and despite my innocence but no one believed me . I did not come back not only for fear to end up back in a cell but I'm sick. I do not like to live with that accusation on [top of] me . "

But if the trial were to result in a sentence what will you do?

"In that case I will be ... as they say ... a fugitive ."


LA REPUBBLICA
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
I reckon Sollecito isall set to disappear again after today, of course he isn't going to say that, but look what he did before. Why would he have gone thousands of miles away, when he should have been, for his own good, directly available to his lawyer?


I guess papa Sollecito will find out his son is on his way back to the Dominican Republic when they stop him at the airport again.

Good...then people will know where to find him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Nell wrote:
I have never heard before that Sollecito's defence admitted he in fact accused Amanda Knox which ultimately led to the couple's arrest.

Has there ever been an attempt to explain that circumstance?


It might be an error in the translation, Nell. I don't see Bongiorno distancing her client from Knox, just acknowledging that he did withdraw her alibi at one time.


I don't think so. Sollecito's accusation against Knox was mentioned in Machiavelli's tweets as well.

It's a fact Sollecito accused Knox, but thinking back, I have never read an explanation for this coming from the defence. Bongiorno acknowledged it but did not give an explanation for it.

So no matter how you want to embellish it, he did what he did and I would like to see this addressed from his defence team.

Is there a video available from Bongiorno's closing arguments? If anyone has a link, I would appreciate it.


Reading through Machiavelli's tweets again it also shows that Bongiorno is of the opinion that Anna Donnino did not speak English "well enough" to do her job. I am doubtful that raising new accusations against professionals will distract the jury long enough from the hard evidence to acquit.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Google translation of the full interview of Amanda Knox with La Repubblica's Meo Ponte.
(Nothing new in it, just for the record.)

The last battle of Amanda Knox : "This time I will be acquitted, then meet the parents of Meredith"
By Meo Ponte
9 January 2014

"I am an optimist but I am afraid. Every time I've believed my innocence would be recognized I have been found guilty." In Seattle is just past noon . Amanda Knox has just returned home from classes in creative writing at the University. The appointment for the interview on Skype. She appears in the video smiling behind large short-sighted glasses, short bob hair cut.

Insists on showing a shaggy cat that buzzes around and says, " This is Torrato. I have another that I called Amiel. Live with them , my boyfriend lives not far away but we do not live together and they are my true comfort . I know it sounds strange in Italian, but my life is , how shall I say , simple but not boring . "

The process in Florence that still sees you accused of murder is coming to an end. What do you expect ?

"What we expect since 2007 that my innocence is recognized, that it is established once and for all that I did not kill my friend Meredith. I have been closely following this new process ordered by the Supreme Court through my lawyers , Carlo Dalla Vedova and Luciano Ghirga . New evidence has been examined but I don't believe any proof of my guilt has been found. As far as I'm aware the results were the opposite of what the prosecutors were hoping for. "

You decided not to participate in the process . You sent a written statement to the Court. Do you still think you made the right choice?

" Yes, even though it was a difficult choice because I really wanted to go to Italy and be present in the courtroom, speaking directly to the judges. I'm convinced that to be my only real defense for showing me what I am, so they can understand me to be innocent. in Italy, however, I was arrested and put in jail for four long years, it was not based on evidence but on assumptions. If I returned I am convinced I would have been put back in prison. This happened , I've lived it on my skin. They accused me of doing the cartwheel at the police station on the evening of the interrogation, they interpreted my laughter as evidence. I still wonder how it happened . Even if I had appeared at the police station naked and dancing that still would not mean that I was a murderer. "

According to the Attorney General of Florence the motive of the murder of Meredith is no longer linked to the sex game but a fight that broke out between you and Meredith because Rudy did not flush the toilet. What do you think ?

" What it comes down to is another conjecture , like the others. Meredith was not a person who argued with me about these things . Moreover, in all that time [they] have never been able to find traces of contacts between me , Raffaele and Rudy Guede . I had seen him twice in passing , Raffaele has never even met him. And without knowing him we participated in a murder with him? I've said it before : the accusation is based mainly on suggestions , conjecture , not on evidence . There is a saying in the United States : those of you dig your own grave . I got the impression that the prosecution has behaved well . But in the grave they had dug then [they] threw me. "

Have you ever talked to the family of Meredith , after the murder ?

" Not directly, even if I wanted to. When I saw them in the courtroom at the process of Perugia, I wanted to say hello and I asked my lawyer if he could do it. Lawyer Carlo Della Vedova tried to get close to them but their lawyers have rejected , saying it was not the time . Still want to talk to them, tell them directly that I had nothing to do with the death of Meredith , that I loved her and that we were friends . I know , however, that they believe I'm the killer of their daughter, are convinced that i killed her and then even now is still not the time to talk with them. But that day will come, I keep hoping. I want to talk to them, hug them, suffer because of their own pain. I hope it happens after my innocence has been finally recognized. "

Have you heard from Raffaele Sollecito recently ?

" Yes, and he feels much more optimistic than me. He believes in justice and is convinced that it will absolve him. He's also very religious and I think this will help him a lot. I'm a little less optimistic , I deceived myself too many times that the truth was recognized . I realized that a person can end up in what I call a whirl , be put on trial and then in prison without understanding why. I once loved novels , I have now found that it is better to study the reality , reason on facts. To succeed in the future I would like to explain to people how you can end up on the bench of the accused with ease despite being innocent. "

You said you wanted to talk to the judges of Florence. To say what?

" That the fact of being at my house here in Seattle does not make me feel good . I'll be really good only when my foreignness to the death of Meredith is officially recognized. I've said before : I'd come back for the trial. I miss Italy very much . But I'm afraid , I was in prison for four years without having done anything wrong and despite my innocence but no one believed me . I did not come back not only for fear to end up back in a cell but I'm sick. I do not like to live with that accusation on [top of] me . "

But if the process were to result in a sentence what will you do?

"In that case I will be ... as they say ... a fugitive ."


LA REPUBBLICA


Amanda Knox is a very tiresome person. Everytime now when she mentions Meredith, she will say "my friend Meredith", foolishly believing it will change the past.

Now she has also given a fifth reason why she could not travel to Italy to attend her own appeal: She is sick.

Amanda Knox had the opportunity to remember "her friend Meredith" during the vigil held in Perugia after her murder, but she refused. She testified at the original trial that she was more focused on moving on with her life than thinking of Meredith, because in the end, she only knew her for a month. Years later she insists in "honouring and remembering her", speaks of her entitlement to the 'ownership' of her friendship and grief. Six years after the murder she feels the need to visit Meredith's grave in England. So apparently she is not as broke as she pretends to be if there is enough money for travel to England just to visit a grave of a person she only knew for a month. She has money for travel as long as the destiny is not Italy.

Furthermore, Amanda Knox had the opportunity to speak to the Kerchers before she was arrested. That's one of the reasons she gave for "staying" in Italy, she said she wanted to help police with their investigation and "comfort" the Kerchers. Nothing of that sort happened. Now she has apparently nothing better to do with her life than tormenting the poor grieving Kerchers with her nonsense because she feels the need to talk to them.

Amanda Knox is a manipulator. Manipulators like power and often also attention and they get angry if they cannot have it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Nell wrote:
I have never heard before that Sollecito's defence admitted he in fact accused Amanda Knox which ultimately led to the couple's arrest.

Has there ever been an attempt to explain that circumstance?


It might be an error in the translation, Nell. I don't see Bongiorno distancing her client from Knox, just acknowledging that he did withdraw her alibi at one time.


I don't think so. Sollecito's accusation against Knox was mentioned in Machiavelli's tweets as well.

It's a fact Sollecito accused Knox, but thinking back, I have never read an explanation for this coming from the defence. Bongiorno acknowledged it but did not give an explanation for it.

So no matter how you want to embellish it, he did what he did and I would like to see this addressed from his defence team.

Is there a video available from Bongiorno's closing arguments? If anyone has a link, I would appreciate it.


Reading through Machiavelli's tweets again it also shows that Bongiorno is of the opinion that Anna Donnino did not speak English "well enough" to do her job. I am doubtful that raising new accusations against professionals will distract the jury long enough from the hard evidence to acquit.




Actually, the interpreter was very good indeed.

Interpreting is much harder than translating, insofar as one has to have the right words ready pretty much immediately and she was very well able to do that, which to me meant that her English had to be very good and her memory too. Translation allows the translator time to look things up.

What you say is right, and was the same as I said above too, about trying to blame the interpreter, in fact trying to place her in the guilty seat, as well as attempting to place the prosecutor in the guilty seat, place all those people and many others in the guilty seat to try to have the defendants appear to be good/better at the cost of people those who have done nothing wrong.

She attacks what is in fact her own side since Knox and Sollecito are Siamese twins, joined at the hip in this.
What she tried yesterday was to separate those twins in what was an unsuccessful operation.

It stank, because everyone knows that the two defendants are very much the same in this set of crimes.

Despite what the high court said, she in response to the Supreme Courts statements attempted to split up the characters, so where the high court pointed to the two being involved and this specifically in collusion with Guede, she now attempted to present Knox, without actually saying it, as the bad, and her client as the separate, innocent party.

If they had wanted to make that line of defence robust, they would have needed to follow it ages ago. Sollecito would have needed to stick to his line about he is not sure Knox was with him, instead of making the turnaround he did when he said, no, I know now, she was in fact with me all night.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
--- snip ---

Despite what the high court said, she in response to the Supreme Courts statements attempted to split up the characters, so where the high court pointed to the two being involved and this specifically in collusion with Guede, she now attempted to present Knox, without actually saying it, as the bad, and her client as the separate, innocent party.

If they had wanted to make that line of defence robust, they would have needed to follow it ages ago. Sollecito would have needed to stick to his line about he is not sure Knox was with him, instead of making the turnaround he did when he said, no, I know now, she was in fact with me all night.

--- snap ---


I don't think Bongiorno did all this to separate the defendant's defence, it is far too late for that.

After reading the courtroom live tweets, I am under the impression that Bongiorno firmly counts with a guilty verdict. She subtly hinted Knox was and always has been the main character in this case. She was suggesting Amanda Knox had more responsibility than Raffaele Sollecito, so what she is effectively doing is bargaining. She wants the lightest possible sentence for her client.

I hope Popper or Yummi will give their expert opinion, but so far, this is my interpretation.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
--- snip ---

Despite what the high court said, she in response to the Supreme Courts statements attempted to split up the characters, so where the high court pointed to the two being involved and this specifically in collusion with Guede, she now attempted to present Knox, without actually saying it, as the bad, and her client as the separate, innocent party.

If they had wanted to make that line of defence robust, they would have needed to follow it ages ago. Sollecito would have needed to stick to his line about he is not sure Knox was with him, instead of making the turnaround he did when he said, no, I know now, she was in fact with me all night.

--- snap ---


I don't think Bongiorno did all this to separate the defendant's defence, it is far too late for that.

After reading the courtroom live tweets, I am under the impression that Bongiorno firmly counts with a guilty verdict. She subtly hinted Knox was and always has been the main character in this case. She was suggesting Amanda Knox had more responsibility than Raffaele Sollecito, so what she is effectively doing is bargaining. She wants the lightest possible sentence for her client.

I hope Popper or Yummi will give their expert opinion, but so far, this is my interpretation.


Yes well that is obvious Nell, as it is too late to separate them, so as you say, that's a possibility, an outcome of her positioning yesterday, but she was separating them by creating a makeshift perception of them as exactly that, two separate individuals, which of course they are as everyone is, the thing is, they were BOTH involved in this crime and have EQUAL responsibility and are EQUALLY culpable.

In which way are Popper and Yummi experts?

Do you mean as Italians? Or are they lawyers?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:

so what she is effectively doing is bargaining. She wants the lightest possible sentence for her client.




a) So what she is effectively doing is bargaining.

b) She wants the lightest possible sentence for her client.


a) To bargain, one has to give something, she is not giving anything. In my view that is not what bargaining is, she is making her pleas for her client. Bargaining implies two sides giving and taking something, there is no question of that here.

b) Every lawyer wants that for the client.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Google translation of the full interview of Amanda Knox with La Repubblica's Meo Ponte.
(Nothing new in it, just for the record.)

The last battle of Amanda Knox : "This time I will be acquitted, then meet the parents of Meredith"
By Meo Ponte
9 January 2014

"I am an optimist but I am afraid. Every time I've believed my innocence would be recognized I have been found guilty." In Seattle is just past noon . Amanda Knox has just returned home from classes in creative writing at the University. The appointment for the interview on Skype. She appears in the video smiling behind large short-sighted glasses, short bob hair cut.

Insists on showing a shaggy cat that buzzes around and says, " This is Torrato. I have another that I called Amiel. Live with them , my boyfriend lives not far away but we do not live together and they are my true comfort . I know it sounds strange in Italian, but my life is , how shall I say , simple but not boring . "

The process in Florence that still sees you accused of murder is coming to an end. What do you expect ?

"What we expect since 2007 that my innocence is recognized, that it is established once and for all that I did not kill my friend Meredith. I have been closely following this new process ordered by the Supreme Court through my lawyers , Carlo Dalla Vedova and Luciano Ghirga . New evidence has been examined but I don't believe any proof of my guilt has been found. As far as I'm aware the results were the opposite of what the prosecutors were hoping for. "

You decided not to participate in the process . You sent a written statement to the Court. Do you still think you made the right choice?

" Yes, even though it was a difficult choice because I really wanted to go to Italy and be present in the courtroom, speaking directly to the judges. I'm convinced that to be my only real defense for showing me what I am, so they can understand me to be innocent. in Italy, however, I was arrested and put in jail for four long years, it was not based on evidence but on assumptions. If I returned I am convinced I would have been put back in prison. This happened , I've lived it on my skin. They accused me of doing the cartwheel at the police station on the evening of the interrogation, they interpreted my laughter as evidence. I still wonder how it happened . Even if I had appeared at the police station naked and dancing that still would not mean that I was a murderer. "

According to the Attorney General of Florence the motive of the murder of Meredith is no longer linked to the sex game but a fight that broke out between you and Meredith because Rudy did not flush the toilet. What do you think ?

" What it comes down to is another conjecture , like the others. Meredith was not a person who argued with me about these things . Moreover, in all that time [they] have never been able to find traces of contacts between me , Raffaele and Rudy Guede . I had seen him twice in passing , Raffaele has never even met him. And without knowing him we participated in a murder with him? I've said it before : the accusation is based mainly on suggestions , conjecture , not on evidence . There is a saying in the United States : those of you dig your own grave . I got the impression that the prosecution has behaved well . But in the grave they had dug then [they] threw me. "

Have you ever talked to the family of Meredith , after the murder ?

" Not directly, even if I wanted to. When I saw them in the courtroom at the process of Perugia, I wanted to say hello and I asked my lawyer if he could do it. Lawyer Carlo Della Vedova tried to get close to them but their lawyers have rejected , saying it was not the time . Still want to talk to them, tell them directly that I had nothing to do with the death of Meredith , that I loved her and that we were friends . I know , however, that they believe I'm the killer of their daughter, are convinced that i killed her and then even now is still not the time to talk with them. But that day will come, I keep hoping. I want to talk to them, hug them, suffer because of their own pain. I hope it happens after my innocence has been finally recognized. "

Have you heard from Raffaele Sollecito recently ?

" Yes, and he feels much more optimistic than me. He believes in justice and is convinced that it will absolve him. He's also very religious and I think this will help him a lot. I'm a little less optimistic , I deceived myself too many times that the truth was recognized . I realized that a person can end up in what I call a whirl , be put on trial and then in prison without understanding why. I once loved novels , I have now found that it is better to study the reality , reason on facts. To succeed in the future I would like to explain to people how you can end up on the bench of the accused with ease despite being innocent. "

You said you wanted to talk to the judges of Florence. To say what?

" That the fact of being at my house here in Seattle does not make me feel good . I'll be really good only when my foreignness to the death of Meredith is officially recognized. I've said before : I'd come back for the trial. I miss Italy very much . But I'm afraid , I was in prison for four years without having done anything wrong and despite my innocence but no one believed me . I did not come back not only for fear to end up back in a cell but I'm sick. I do not like to live with that accusation on [top of] me . "

But if the process were to result in a sentence what will you do?

"In that case I will be ... as they say ... a fugitive ."


LA REPUBBLICA


Amanda Knox is a very tiresome person. Everytime now when she mentions Meredith, she will say "my friend Meredith", foolishly believing it will change the past.

Now she has also given a fifth reason why she could not travel to Italy to attend her own appeal: She is sick.

Amanda Knox had the opportunity to remember "her friend Meredith" during the vigil held in Perugia after her murder, but she refused. She testified at the original trial that she was more focused on moving on with her life than thinking of Meredith, because in the end, she only knew her for a month. Years later she insists in "honouring and remembering her", speaks of her entitlement to the 'ownership' of her friendship and grief. Six years after the murder she feels the need to visit Meredith's grave in England. So apparently she is not as broke as she pretends to be if there is enough money for travel to England just to visit a grave of a person she only knew for a month. She has money for travel as long as the destiny is not Italy.

Furthermore, Amanda Knox had the opportunity to speak to the Kerchers before she was arrested. That's one of the reasons she gave for "staying" in Italy, she said she wanted to help police with their investigation and "comfort" the Kerchers. Nothing of that sort happened. Now she has apparently nothing better to do with her life than tormenting the poor grieving Kerchers with her nonsense because she feels the need to talk to them.

Amanda Knox is a manipulator. Manipulators like power and often also attention and they get angry if they cannot have it.

So true, Nell. pp-(
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Funniest line from Frank Sfarzo yesterday:

Quote:
"As for the “simulated break-in,” Bongiorno projected the picture of the lawyer, of whom she didn’t even remember the name, climbing it. Nencini: “I just see a guy hanging from a window, that doesn’t say anything to me. Don’t you have the video?” But no, la signorina Giulia, after having been paid 150,000 euro, didn’t even bother to burn a video."


That was funny indeed, to see the 6'2" lawyer, unable to climb the wall that "anyone could climb" :)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Funniest line from Frank Sfarzo yesterday:

Quote:
"As for the “simulated break-in,” Bongiorno projected the picture of the lawyer, of whom she didn’t even remember the name, climbing it. Nencini: “I just see a guy hanging from a window, that doesn’t say anything to me. Don’t you have the video?” But no, la signorina Giulia, after having been paid 150,000 euro, didn’t even bother to burn a video."


That was funny indeed, to see the 6'2" lawyer, unable to climb the wall that "anyone could climb" :)



Not as much funny, as weird, is to read this, about him, and what he said, he is just nobody's friend, if ever there was a spiteful opportunist competition, he'd be in the running for first prize.

Those fools, trusting him with their things, as though he ever would have been could have been, any friend of theirs, so desperate were they that they took a vile rat on board, one that would eat them out of house and home from the inside, if he didn't get it handed to him.

I tell you, they've cut him loose, and he will come out with far more about them in future.

He's something like a double spy.

He's so jealous about the money thing, stating it that way, for he cannot know, as can nobody, the exact amount she has been paid up until now, unless he burgled her office and looked into her invoices.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The question is, why is FS still in the picture, and who's paying him? Don't think for a moment we don't know.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
The question is, why is FS still in the picture, and who's paying him? Don't think for a moment we don't know.



He is running down Sollecito's lawyer, who would be paying him to do that?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Not much happened on Quarto Grado tonight.

Here's a VERY brief summary posted on Crimeblog (Italy), in Google-ese:

Raffaele Sollecito innocent?

22:14 The harangue of Bongiorno had as objective to disavow the method of collection of various pieces of evidence against Raffaele Sollecito. The bra clasp, which was found at the crime scene, would have been contaminated and isolated after 46 days.

Francesco (father of Raffaele Sollecito): Remains faith. We live day to day, day after day. Our focus is on January 20, when there will be a discussion of the lawyer Mauri (sic).


Attachment:
Sollecito Sr on Quarto Grado Jan 10, 2014.jpg


At 22:39 starts a new segment (on Katia Tondi).

CRIMEBLOG


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Tweets from Quarto Grado during the show:

Quarto Grado ‏@QuartoGrado 6h
- Soon our guest in studio will be the father of Raffaele Sollecito

- Sollecito 's lawyer speaks of a young love, just blossomed. The thesis of the erotic game with this in mind is uncertain ?

- The lawyer Bongiorno wants to split the position of Raffaele from that of Amanda . Her harangue is convincing

- Our @ AlessandraViero with a basketball in hand for a curious reconstruction

- Rudy Guede has a past as a basketball player, it would have been easy to hit the window with a rock

- Sollecito guilty or innocent?


A lot of nonsense, in other words. A couple of skeptical viewers tweeted back:

- But does # quartogrado have a master as to the theater? Shoes , stones , balls, houses , knives ...

- Sollecito on vacation


https://twitter.com/QuartoGrado

Full episode will be available to watch on this website:

http://www.video.mediaset.it/programma/quarto_grado/archivio-video.shtml ,

probably tomorrow.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Yes well that is obvious Nell, as it is too late to separate them, so as you say, that's a possibility, an outcome of her positioning yesterday, but she wass separating them by creating a makeshift perception of them as exactly that, two separate individuals, which of course they are as everyone is, the thing is, they were bOTH involved in this crime and have EQUAL responsibility and are EQUALLY culpable.

In which way are Popper and Yummi experts?

Do you mean as Italians? Or are they lawyers?


I do not know their real life identities, but both have been commenting extensively on the case to explain Italian law and court proceedings in general to us lay people. This has been very beneficial for all of us to gain a better understanding of the case. I enjoy reading their comments. I also consider them both quite talented in explaining complex matters to people who are not familiar with the every detail of the law.

I cannot tell you if they are Italians or Americans, but both seem very much connected to Italy, so for whatever the reason, they are very knowledgeable.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:

so what she is effectively doing is bargaining. She wants the lightest possible sentence for her client.




a) So what she is effectively doing is bargaining.

b) She wants the lightest possible sentence for her client.


a) To bargain, one has to give something, she is not giving anything. In my view that is not what bargaining is, she is making her pleas for her client. Bargaining implies two sides giving and taking something, there is no question of that here.

b) Every lawyer wants that for the client.


Agreed. "Bargaining" was a bad choice to express what I wanted to say.

The important point is though, that Bongiorno seemed to suggest that Sollecito was less responsible than Knox. She avoided to say that directly, for obvious reasons, but her choice of words was such that it helped implying Amanda Knox is and was the main character.

The world of Bongiorno is a world of make believe, based on fictional stories that are narrated in front of the judges in a theatric way. There was a lot of drama but little to back it up.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
Nell wrote:
Amanda Knox is prepared to become a fugitive if found guilty.

Telegraph UK


And she still has the pregnancy card to play ...............


A fugitive? Just like that? I pp-( think an innocent would want their last appeal.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:

so what she is effectively doing is bargaining. She wants the lightest possible sentence for her client.




a) So what she is effectively doing is bargaining.

b) She wants the lightest possible sentence for her client.


a) To bargain, one has to give something, she is not giving anything. In my view that is not what bargaining is, she is making her pleas for her client. Bargaining implies two sides giving and taking something, there is no question of that here.

b) Every lawyer wants that for the client.


Agreed. "Bargaining" was a bad choice to express what I wanted to say.

The important point is though, that Bongiorno seemed to suggest that Sollecito was less responsible than Knox. She avoided to say that directly, for obvious reasons, but her choice of words was such that it helped implying Amanda Knox is and was the main character.

The world of Bongiorno is a world of make believe, based on fictional stories that are narrated in front of the judges in a theatric way. There was a lot of drama but little to back it up.


Hi Nell, do you think Raff would turn on her if she left him holding the bag? Do you see all this drama, and betrayel, possibly leading to Raff or Rudy spilling beans? Probably not, but I would buy that book. Forgive typos...please.


Last edited by tamale on Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Funniest line from Frank Sfarzo yesterday:

Quote:
"As for the “simulated break-in,” Bongiorno projected the picture of the lawyer, of whom she didn’t even remember the name, climbing it. Nencini: “I just see a guy hanging from a window, that doesn’t say anything to me. Don’t you have the video?” But no, la signorina Giulia, after having been paid 150,000 euro, didn’t even bother to burn a video."


That was funny indeed, to see the 6'2" lawyer, unable to climb the wall that "anyone could climb" :)



Not as much funny, as weird, is to read this, about him, and what he said, he is just nobody's friend, if ever there was a spiteful opportunist competition, he'd be in the running for first prize.

Those fools, trusting him with their things, as though he ever would have been could have been, any friend of theirs, so desperate were they that they took a vile rat on board, one that would eat them out of house and home from the inside, if he didn't get it handed to him.

I tell you, they've cut him loose, and he will come out with far more about them in future.

He's something like a double spy.

He's so jealous about the money thing, stating it that way, for he cannot know, as can nobody, the exact amount she has been paid up until now, unles he burgaled her office and looked into her invoices.


It could be the first step to further blame the lawyers. Both, Knox and Sollecito, have criticised their legal teams in their books. Sfarzo is just an extension.

I absolutely agree that Sfarzo holds some power over them. On the other hand, is there something the Sollecitos/Melloxes haven't denied yet?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

tamale wrote:
Hi Nell, do you think Raff would turn on her if she left him holding the bag? Do you see all this drama, and betrayel, possibly leading to Raff or Rudy spilling beans? Probably not, but I would buy that book. Forgive typos...please.


I believe the most likely time for Sollecito to turn on Knox is if he gets arrested and send to prison while she still either fights her extradition or manages to hide from authorities. In other words, when there is still hope for her to enjoy a life in freedom while he is locked up and punished.

Another possibility is that they all get locked up. In that case I see Sollecito as the most likely to break. He was quick to point the finger at her in the police station, during his interrogation. There is a good possibility he will do it again.

If you had asked me that two years ago, I would have said none of them will talk, but after seeing how things have developed, that's my opinion now.

I find it hard to estimate Guede. He has been very quiet. I would suspect he moves on, but I cannot say.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
The question is, why is FS still in the picture, and who's paying him? Don't think for a moment we don't know.


He is writing articles for Bruce Fischer's new website "Wrongful Convictions" or something like that.

It is a way for Bruce to act as if nothing has happened, after that epic meltdown on his forum "Injustice Anywhere Forum".

He is just like Amanda Knox. He thinks if he doesn't address the obvious problems, people will think they don't exist.

We are still waiting for the signed arrest warrant that proves harassment from Mignini's part. The pilar of his accusation that Perugian authorities are corrupt. Fischer has already backtracked and blamed his source for the misinformation.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
The question is, why is FS still in the picture, and who's paying him? Don't think for a moment we don't know.



He is running down Sollecito's lawyer, who would be paying him to do that?


I think Sfarzo has not many allies left. Bruce Fischer, of course, and a few female admirers. In case he still receives donations from the retired judge, it is not out of sympathy for him, it is to keep him quiet.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Tweets from Quarto Grado during the show:

Quarto Grado ‏@QuartoGrado 6h

- The lawyer Bongiorno wants to split the position of Raffaele from that of Amanda . Her harangue is convincing


How interesting that now we have an Italian source mentioning a split. I wonder where this will lead?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
The question is, why is FS still in the picture, and who's paying him? Don't think for a moment we don't know.



He is running down Sollecito's lawyer, who would be paying him to do that?


Two games in play. First, if RS is convicted, blame the lawyer who adopted the dual defense strategy. Remember how Luca Maori wanted him to blame Amanda? Wait for summation Jan 20. Second, the people who are still after Mignini? Boils down to the MOF case, as I argued all along. Wait till we hear about Mignini's trial on January 15, then things will be more clear.

And funny thing about all this. What is a Canadian reverend doing acting as water boy/messenger for the Sollecitos and Mario Spezi?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Funniest line from Frank Sfarzo yesterday:

Quote:
"As for the “simulated break-in,” Bongiorno projected the picture of the lawyer, of whom she didn’t even remember the name, climbing it. Nencini: “I just see a guy hanging from a window, that doesn’t say anything to me. Don’t you have the video?” But no, la signorina Giulia, after having been paid 150,000 euro, didn’t even bother to burn a video."


That was funny indeed, to see the 6'2" lawyer, unable to climb the wall that "anyone could climb" :)



Not as much funny, as weird, is to read this, about him, and what he said, he is just nobody's friend, if ever there was a spiteful opportunist competition, he'd be in the running for first prize.

Those fools, trusting him with their things, as though he ever would have been could have been, any friend of theirs, so desperate were they that they took a vile rat on board, one that would eat them out of house and home from the inside, if he didn't get it handed to him.

I tell you, they've cut him loose, and he will come out with far more about them in future.

He's something like a double spy.

He's so jealous about the money thing, stating it that way, for he cannot know, as can nobody, the exact amount she has been paid up until now, unles he burgaled her office and looked into her invoices.


It could be the first step to further blame the lawyers. Both, Knox and Sollecito, have criticised their legal teams in their books. Sfarzo is just an extension.

I absolutely agree that Sfarzo holds some power over them. On the other hand, is there something the Sollecitos/Melloxes haven't denied yet?


Their attempts to out people? Doug Preston connection? Hot line to Senator Maria Cantwell, who is still trying to help them?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:

so what she is effectively doing is bargaining. She wants the lightest possible sentence for her client.




a) So what she is effectively doing is bargaining.

b) She wants the lightest possible sentence for her client.


a) To bargain, one has to give something, she is not giving anything. In my view that is not what bargaining is, she is making her pleas for her client. Bargaining implies two sides giving and taking something, there is no question of that here.

b) Every lawyer wants that for the client.


Agreed. "Bargaining" was a bad choice to express what I wanted to say.

The important point is though, that Bongiorno seemed to suggest that Sollecito was less responsible than Knox.
She avoided saying that directly, for obvious reasons, but her choice of words was such that it helped implying Amanda Knox is and was the main character.

The world of Bongiorno is a world of make believe, based on fictional stories that are narrated in front of the judges in a theatric way. There was a lot of drama but little to back it up.



I wasn't that bad actually Nell, but more like training to gain leverage, ALMOST FORCING THE JUDGE TO SEE/judge (WHAT SHE IMAGINES HE SEES) the two differently.

They sat together in court sniggering, mocking everyone and everything, they've both collected funds and written books for profit, my view is their sentences should be life with no release date, a release date only being based on whether or not they admit guilt, show remorse and can be seen to have been fixed through rehabilitation, otherwise they remain a danger to society.

The only reason she would be up to this trick, is because she had absolutely nothing new to bring in, and mostly they, they meaning her and Knox's team, repeated the same old worn out lines that were already dismissed, doing that is extremely dimwitted from them to start with, it seems they just could not get it into their heads, not get it that those lines have already been deemed unacceptable and trying to get the court in sitting to accept it while the High Court says NO, is mad.

I'm trying to find the right words, it's like she is trying to get him indeed to consider her client as being different to Knox but in order to do that, the good judge Nencini would have to dismiss the parts of evidence that he has been expressly instructed to consider, in the all-round nature of segments, put together to form a whole, he cannot just say, well, maybe yeah, maybe I can ignore all of the things that point to Sollecito being involved and say, yes, he PROBABLY did nothing, she is the BAD one.

This attempt is as ridiculous as everything else put forward by her, Maori, Knox's team, her supporters and her oparents and Sollecito's dad and sister.

The counter weighting, contrary to her objective, may mean that Nencini instead of being a fool too and letting Sollecito off lighter, may make sure that it is seen that Sollecito is an equal partner in bloodshed and murder. My view is that Nencini will realise the defence members are desperate, Bongiorno's method was excruciatingly ugly and uncomfortable to behold, worse though, whatever her real intention was, it had no positive effect for camp Sollecito.

If she had decent points to put on the table she could then have put them forward in a reasonable way without either frightening or compelling those present to have to stifle a laughing fit, when a person is putting on an act and running through play theatre, and the audience instead of being in awe, can't keep the laughing at bay, then that's a big fail. Nencini isn't stupid, he knows why she acted that way but even uncoupling her dramatic behaviour and viewing what her content meant, it's still a waste, as she added nothing, except rob Peter to pay Paul. Nencini will know that both Peter an Paul need paying, with prison sentences. It's a dirty trick she's used here.

As though someone, if having not participated, and who does however protect someone who DID commit murder, would mean the one who covered up is any less bad than the killer.
If he did not kill, did not take part, pretending to be some kind of hero and/or honourable man, does not excuse you.
He either did nothing and should have pointed out how, or he is as guilty as sin. just like Knox.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Yes well that is obvious Nell, as it is too late to separate them, so as you say, that's a possibility, an outcome of her positioning yesterday, but she wass separating them by creating a makeshift perception of them as exactly that, two separate individuals, which of course they are as everyone is, the thing is, they were bOTH involved in this crime and have EQUAL responsibility and are EQUALLY culpable.

In which way are Popper and Yummi experts?

Do you mean as Italians? Or are they lawyers?


I do not know their real life identities, but both have been commenting extensively on the case to explain Italian law and court proceedings in general to us lay people. This has been very beneficial for all of us to gain a better understanding of the case. I enjoy reading their comments. I also consider them both quite talented in explaining complex matters to people who are not familiar with the every detail of the law.

I cannot tell you if they are Italians or Americans, but both seem very much connected to Italy, so for whatever the reason, they are very knowledgeable.



I think they are Italians Nell.
They re very knowledgable, well I say that, I know about Yummi more, his English isn't fantastic yet when he writes you can tell he is very intelligent and knows what he is talking about.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Funniest line from Frank Sfarzo yesterday:

Quote:
"As for the “simulated break-in,” Bongiorno projected the picture of the lawyer, of whom she didn’t even remember the name, climbing it. Nencini: “I just see a guy hanging from a window, that doesn’t say anything to me. Don’t you have the video?” But no, la signorina Giulia, after having been paid 150,000 euro, didn’t even bother to burn a video."


That was funny indeed, to see the 6'2" lawyer, unable to climb the wall that "anyone could climb" :)



Not as much funny, as weird, is to read this, about him, and what he said, he is just nobody's friend, if ever there was a spiteful opportunist competition, he'd be in the running for first prize.

Those fools, trusting him with their things, as though he ever would have been could have been, any friend of theirs, so desperate were they that they took a vile rat on board, one that would eat them out of house and home from the inside, if he didn't get it handed to him.

I tell you, they've cut him loose, and he will come out with far more about them in future.

He's something like a double spy.

He's so jealous about the money thing, stating it that way, for he cannot know, as can nobody, the exact amount she has been paid up until now, unless he burgled her office and looked into her invoices.


It could be the first step to further blame the lawyers. Both, Knox and Sollecito, have criticised their legal teams in their books. Sfarzo is just an extension.

I absolutely agree that Sfarzo holds some power over them. On the other hand, is there something the Sollecitos/Melloxes haven't denied yet?



Yes I can see that, I didn't think of that, when we do in fact already know that there's nobody they spare, so if they do not get their way; blame those who did their best to defend you.

My o my o my, that shows a certain calibre, call it class (LESS) type of persons here eh.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
The question is, why is FS still in the picture, and who's paying him? Don't think for a moment we don't know.



He is running down Sollecito's lawyer, who would be paying him to do that?


Two games in play. First, if RS is convicted, blame the lawyer who adopted the dual defense strategy. Remember how Luca Maori wanted him to blame Amanda? Wait for summation Jan 20. Second, the people who are still after Mignini? Boils down to the MOF case, as I argued all along. Wait till we hear about Mignini's trial on January 15, then things will be more clear.

And funny thing about all this. What is a Canadian reverend doing acting as water boy/messenger for the Sollecitos and Mario Spezi?



My idea of it is that Sfarzo's lines here may be a reflection of the fact that nobody is paying him anymore and again, he turns, and shows he can change sides, at least he did that before, seems he has no real character, and certainly no integrity, he does what he does with a view to getting the money wherever he can. That is a true mercenary, one who has no bond in loyalty.

In Britain we call people like him, shit stirrers.
For all anyone knows he may have been trying for ages to find a respectable way to tap money off from the Sollecito's without making them angry, dad then.
Doing this, criticising Bongiorno, is like a sideway swipe, to show, see, I can do that.

As Nell said, I cannot see anyone staying in league with him except for the crankenhausen Fishkopf.


The Bad Reverend, seems to me he is yet another lunatic, I mean, what in HELL is a reverend doing going online and acting like the devil's dealer/emissary?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just watched the 20 min Quarto Grado segment. It starts @ 44 min:

http://www.video.mediaset.it/video/quarto_grado/full/431711/puntata-del-10-gennaio.html

They showed large chunks of footage from the courtroom, i.e. video-clips of Bongiorno's speech (B. handling a large knife, the "unca nunca" bit, etc) Worth a watch because of that.

Apart from that, they produce lots of chatter, but not much else. Sollecito's dad can talk endlessly about his son and doesn't mind if he spends his precious time vacationing half the world away.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A very helpful summary of the appeal segment by 411 at .org. Re-posting with thanks. ;)

10 January 2014 "QUARTO GRADO" Segment

Post by The 411 » 11 Jan 2014, 06:14

The 411 wrote:
Behold the greasy-haired RS chomping away on his gum...as Bongiorno is heard addressing the Court:

"They don't kiss like other people, with their mouths .....they kiss with their noses nunca, nunca, not bunga bunga."

Re: the bathroom cleaning motive: GB asks dramatically: "What does Raffaele have to do with the housecleaning!?"

Bongiorno asserts: "It's obvious that, strictly speaking, the crime scene is Meredith's room."

Bear in mind....It was only a "TINY" piece of bra strap. NOT AS TINY AS THE DNA, of course...

It's the "key evidence" against Raffaele but SHE calls it "mother of all mistakes" in this case.

There was a legitimate "coming and going" of people walking through the cottage, but since the bra strap was found only after 46 days after the previous inspection, it must be, perforce, "contaminated."

"Someone or something must have moved it" sez GB. It certainly couldn't have been "remote-controlled" she explains to the Court.

Pleads with Judges, when they go to deliberate..."to turn off" Amanda in their minds, and focus on RS. "They are both innocent," she adds, but try to separate the two defendants in your minds.

It's late so I skipped through the video ....and jumped to

the Papa Doc section...

Papa Doc tells us that yes, RS is really "looking for work", and that's why he went to Santo Domingo.

Because, you see, lots of Italians work there, he explains.

Interviewer interrupts to say: "...And lots of fugitives go there, too, don't they?"

Papa Doc sez, well, yes, ok, well, see, RS went there "for vacation", and stayed at the home of one of his female supporters.

Interviewer: "What will you do if your son is convicted?"
Papa Doc: "Well, we're just taking it one day at a time. At this point, we're focusing on January 20, when Maori is scheduled to give his closing."

Talking about Rudy...and the fact that Rudy had a habit of breaking and entering,
Papa Doc says, Rudy had a record of doing these kind of break-ins, making himself at home.

Then Papa Doc adds: "You know, he turned on the heat...."
Interviewer seems puzzled.
Papa Doc reiterates: "He [Rudy] turned on the heat in one of the houses, you know..."

Papa Doc said it as if Rudy turning on the heat in the house had magnified the depravity and the gravity of the breaking and entering offense!
[OK, well you kind of have to listen to it to appreciate how ridiculous he sounds... ]

Papa Doc looks like he's aged a few decades in the past 6 plus years.

Sorry, that's all I can remember at this late hour...
...
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Just watched the 20 min Quarto Grado segment. It starts @ 44 min:

http://www.video.mediaset.it/video/quarto_grado/full/431711/puntata-del-10-gennaio.html

They showed large chunks of footage from the courtroom, i.e. video-clips of Bongiorno's speech (B. handling a large knife, the "unca nunca" bit, etc) Worth a watch because of that.

Apart from that, they produce lots of chatter, but not much else. Sollecito's dad can talk endlessly about his son and doesn't mind if he spends his precious time vacationing half the world away.



I just took a look Guer, most TV I find crap, especially with commercials that I somehow do not see even if they are on, I do not really watch any TV unless it is good comedy, documentary or suchlike, so I mean I find British TV terrible too, with Italian TV I find it some of the worst, this particular one though, welcomed me to a huge Mc Donald's banner sprawled across most of the screen, at least half, and there was no way to get rid of it. I tried clicking through to the relevant bits, because that show is one of those Italian one's I cannot stand, not quite as bad as the RAI stuff but so very commercial, so I gave up.

Will need to find a different link if there is one, and when less tired try to click through to the relevant bits, if anything, the italian way is itself really sensational, I hate it. Can't stand Mc Donalds, to me it seems like a pedo catering firm, what they do with the kids to appeal to them with the silly little shit gifts but crap food (as bad as supermarkets setting out all of the candy at the checkout point = mommy can I have a .... oh go on then) where they and others like trhem do not care at all about the environment, my family too will just weander on in and when I stand outside looking miserable because they are all think like that and will never get it, it's like I'm not a good sport, well, fuck the family too then. That whole just do it thing, that automated behaviour is what I find the worst thing, then I try explaining something (like about the benefits of food without chemicals, etc) only to have one of the jocks in the family say something to irritate me thinking he is clever, oh well, I eat 30 eggs a week.

The other day I started a post about Italian TV and dumped it, it was about the sexism in that which can be the worst I've ever seen, all of these truly lovely women stiood around at each nook and cranny of the studio in something like a bbeauuty pageant's attire (bikini-like) smiling the dumbest smiles, but you know some of these may be very intelligent, still, the way it is such a male culture like that is something I detest. The worst thing is seeing the Italians there as the audience, looking not like they really like that either, it's an insult because rhey are not all so dumb, it really lowers women. Selling sex that way is something that happens everywhere but in Italy, I noticed, on RAI, etc., it doesn't get much worse.
The women especially sat there in the audience often look embarrassed, it is a great insult to women to have some bunch of old guys in suits talking crap and expecting those dumb responses from the women props. I do not get how it is Italians accept it.

So what is this one about where they have Sollecito there, repeatedly, I think it's all about sensationalism, selling their product, they do not give a flying fuck.

Or I am going to be pleasantly surprised to see some truly intelligent minds coming up with some insights. I doubt it though.

I'll ask Yummi or someone like that if he/they ever grace this original PMF with a visit.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

"Il Giorno di Bongiorno" ;)

Attachment:
Bongiorno holding a knife.JPG


Attachment:
Bongiorno holding Marietti knife.JPG


Attachment:
Bongiorno with a knife in her hand.JPG


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
"Il Giorno di Bongiorno" ;)

Attachment:
Bongiorno holding a knife.JPG


Attachment:
Bongiorno holding Marietti knife.JPG


Attachment:
Bongiorno with a knife in her hand.JPG

The middle pic has me laughing really loud in public...thank you pp-(
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
"Il Giorno di Bongiorno" ;)

Attachment:
Bongiorno holding a knife.JPG


Attachment:
Bongiorno holding Marietti knife.JPG


Attachment:
Bongiorno with a knife in her hand.JPG



All she did there was remind the judges just how awful the real murder was and is.

I reckon tha'ts yet another own goal using such a prop with no real purpose, everyone sat there thinking, is she nuts or what, they know it was a knife that was used.

No, Bongiorno is not that good, she just got lucky working on a case that had been dealt with already by her superiors at that law firm, she just helped out.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bongiorno, pulled her black cape aside and drew a big black-handled knife from her waist.

Those in court let out a gasp and sat bolt upright, pushing back into their seats, mouths agape, looking terrified.

Bongiorno: Cosa questo [launching into some foul language not usually used by lawyers] it's a fucking knife that's what, seeeeee [pulling a face that mad those onlookers wonder what's worse the knife or her contorted facial expressions].
Questo un coltello [staring at the judge, judge's eyes darting around to locate the position of the police, her voice having come to a long, extended halt, suddenly screaming and making several wigs levitate a good two inches above top of heads, seeming to remain there in suspension]

Bongiorno: Cazzo you people of 50 years old bored and only doing this for sexual fantasia.


Those seated reached for their glasses of water, some had little bottles, each grabbed a handful of their pills swallowing them all in one go, eyes like snooker balls popping out of their skulls.

She continues

Bongiorno: These bambinos, mothers milk still wet upon their faces, he was not some puppy, he was an Inuit Indian kisser, he was a dog.

Sollec the alien awoke from his slumber filled with dreams of prostitutes and nightmares about unavailable turnips on his fantasy island.

Judge: The court finds you guilty, take him down

Sollec: No no, I was to be allowed the freedom until the supreme court

Police: We are not arresting you for that, you are being arrested for fraud

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/0 ... 16210.html

A 16-year-old's visit to a Hollywood, Florida home turned into a nightmare when a pack of five teens descended upon her, dragged her by the hair, kicked and punched her, then held her down while she was raped in a videotaped assault, police say.

Four of the accused and the victim are students at South Broward High, according to their Facebook pages. The three boys and two girls, ages 15 to 19, have been charged with felony sexual battery and false imprisonment.

"It just makes it all the more disturbing when you have this many people working in concert and aggression," Maria Schneider, state prosecutor in charge of the juvenile unit, said Monday. "I can't imagine how overwhelmed and under siege someone would feel under these circumstances. It's very traumatic."


The rape suspect, Jayvon Woolfork, 19, stood next to one of his alleged accomplices, Lanel Singleton, 18, in tan jailhouse scrubs, their wrists cuffed behind their backs, as a judge ordered them jailed without bond Monday morning.

"Both of her eyes were closed from being beaten, she had blood coming from one of her ears," Broward County Judge John "Jay" Hurley said. "The court is concerned for the safety of this 16-year-old alleged victim."

Woolfork, originally from Immokalee, recently posted on Facebook that he was living with a sister in Hollywood. When he was arrested, he told police that he had oral sex and intercourse with the accuser that night, police said.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... raped.html


A 16-year-old girl was allegedly beaten by other girls before being held down to be raped in a horrifying attack that was filmed on a cellphone, it was revealed today.
Patricia Montes, 15, and 16-year-old Erica Avery are accused of punching, kicking and pepper-spraying the girl before holding her down to be raped by Jayvon Woolfork, 19, police said.
The barbaric attack was filmed on a cell phone by Lanel Singleton, 18, and shows the girl writhing half naked and weeping in the yard of a home in Hollywood, Florida while her attackers leer over her.


-----------------------------
Yeah, nice white people never do anything wrong do they


Note, Ergon sent me a message saying the rapists were black.
Sorry I did not make this post clear. If he did not get it then others may not.
However I did already state the facts relevant to Meredith's murder.

The girls beat the shit out of the victim,
and they were white, one was the victim's so-called best friend,

The (white) girls beat her so badly, throwing her down steps onto concrete, that the bones in her face were broken and blood came out of her left ear.

This girl escaped with her life but could have been killed, in fact it is a wonder she was released; this lot must have been even thicker than Knox and Sollecito are, yes, if they HAD understood what was going to happen they'd have murdered her, they were insanely cruel to the girl already.

The reason I posted this is because it is totally relevant, where Knox's lot tried to force people to believe white girls are all angels and certainly do not get involved with anything sexual towards other girls, let alone get involved in violence, this proves that is a lie, it's such a good example.

The (white) girls held the victim's legs apart while the other two, who were (black) boys held the victim's arms, the one black male remaining raped her.

Absolutely terrible, no wonder they are all on 100,000 bail, which not all of them can find and thank fuck for that.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   




http://miami.cbslocal.com/latest-videos?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9561440

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ye olde embed thing never seems to work with me, I'm probably using the wrong thing


Anyhow, one of these girls (one was a so-called best friend of the victim), who held down the rape victim, by the legs, while two boys held the rape victim's arms, sniggered in court and rolled her eyes, I was just wondering if that type of behaviour reminded anyone here of anyone else.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

They beat the young lady so badly that the bones broke under her eyes, it seems obvious that this girl was lucky to escape with her life.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The thing that needs changing in Italy is this: Knox and Sollecito were foundy guilty of murder.

The appeal that was thrown out by the Supreme Court meant they were released.

Surely a system that allows a person who has been found guilty, to escape (since this is what it amounts to) is one that needs rearranging in parts. It should because that appeal was NEVER going to be the end of the process, so I think that until a case has been finalised, anyone said to be not guilty by way of appeal, ought to be placed under some type of bail restraining order.

Knox should have been ordered to remain in Italy, under house arrest, in light of the amount of money any court could have known that Knox could have access to, the bail amount should have been set at a minimum of 1 million euros.

The process in between also needs to be improved and speeded up.

People escaping justice by means of cross-border travel, should be eliminated.

Changes need to be made, rules introduced making it illegal to publish books anywhere in the world until a case has been brought to an end.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
--- snip ---

Papa Doc sez, well, yes, ok, well, see, RS went there "for vacation", and stayed at the home of one of his female supporters.

--- snap ---


I could be wrong, but the way I remember it either OGGI or papa Sollecito said he was hosted by a friend, a guy.

I suspected all along it would be probably a woman rather than a man.

He's pulling a Sfarzo.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
All she did there was remind the judges just how awful the real murder was and is.

I reckon tha'ts yet another own goal using such a prop with no real purpose, everyone sat there thinking, is she nuts or what, they know it was a knife that was used.

No, Bongiorno is not that good, she just got lucky working on a case that had been dealt with already by her superiors at that law firm, she just helped out.


My thoughts exactly when I saw the pics. Machiavelli called the scene with the knives in one of his tweets "her ninja phase" because of the way she was wielding them in front of the judges.

I had immediately the feeling that this would not be beneficial for the defence. Andrea Vogt also tweeted about it.

Looking at the second picture, it shows disrespect. Meredith Kercher, the victim of this tragic case, was cruelly knifed and left in a locked room to die. I don't mind Bongiorno bringing the knife to court to explain whatever needs explaining, but wielding the knife in front of everyone for no good reason at all, just for the drama, is of poor taste.

Maybe someone remembers the photo from Amanda Knox wielding a knife in court, in a stabbing motion, laughing, that was published on Frank Sfarzo's blog. I will see if I can find it again. It was of equally bad taste. The photo was taken during the original trial.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
The thing that needs changing in Italy is this: Knox and Sollecito were foundy guilty of murder.

The appeal that was thrown out by the Supreme Court meant they were released.

Surely a system that allows a person who has been found guilty, to escape (since this is what it amounts to) is one that needs rearranging in parts. It should because that appeal was NEVER going to be the end of the process, so I think that until a case has been finalised, anyone said to be not guilty by way of appeal, ought to be placed under some type of bail restraining order.

Knox should have been ordered to remain in Italy, under house arrest, in light of the amount of money any court could have known that Knox could have accees to, the bail amount should have been set at at least 1 million.

The process in between also needs to be improved and speeded up.

People escaping justice by means of cross-border travel, should be eliminated.

Changes need to be made, rules introduced making it illegal to publish books anywhere in the world until a case has been brought to an end.


I agree. A bracelet would also be a good idea. Polanski had to wear one when the Swiss police released him. He was under house arrest.

Judge Hellmann, about to retire, was carefully chosen in my opinion. The person who benefitted most from the deal was Amanda Knox. There is still some hope for her to get away with it, but not for Sollecito.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
All she did there was remind the judges just how awful the real murder was and is.

I reckon that's yet another own goal using such a prop with no real purpose, everyone sat there thinking, is she nuts or what, they know it was a knife that was used.

No, Bongiorno is not that good, she just got lucky working on a case that had been dealt with already by her superiors at that law firm, she just helped out.


My thoughts exactly when I saw the pics. Machiavelli called the scene with the knives in one of his tweets "her ninja phase" because of the way she was wielding them in front of the judges.

I had immediately the feeling that this would not be beneficial for the defence. Andrea Vogt also tweeted about it.

Looking at the second picture, it shows disrespect. Meredith Kercher, the victim of this tragic case, was cruelly knifed and left in a locked room to die. I don't mind Bongiorno bringing the knife to court to explain whatever needs explaining, but wielding the knife in front of everyone for no good reason at all, just for the drama, is of poor taste.

Maybe someone remembers the photo from Amanda Knox wielding a knife in court, in a stabbing motion, laughing, that was published on Frank Sfarzo's blog. I will see if I can find it again. It was of equally bad taste. The photo was taken during the original trial.



Really? They allowed her to hold a knife in court?

I find that incredible, and incredibly out of line.

I found a different place for videos (Sky showing them all in an overview, the entire parade)
but it isn't much better, or even better at all, to the one Guermantes provided, it shows a commercial before each clip, doesn't have Mc Donald's spread in a ridiculously huge banner across half of the screen though.

http://video.sky.it/news/cronaca/omicid ... 184268.vid

And yes, it really is rotten to see, threatening even, and with Sollecito sat right behind her.

The lawyer behind Maresca, balding, not too young, do you know which one that is?

Instilling angst in people isn't going to get her anywhere fast, those lay judges are not stupid, and the way I see it, the presiding judge and assistant, greatly influence the thinking, depending on what they themselves believe, according to that, they are going to impress upon the lay persons exactly what the implications are and the responsibility attached to what they are saying is the case, if the lay people choose incorrectly. Hellmann definitely kept his lay persons in the dark then entirely misinformed them of the facts and what everything meant.

I suspect Nencini would advise his team, if he could, to convict Bongiorno too for having extremely poor taste.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It was questo bullshite-o clip

http://video.sky.it/news/cronaca/omicid ... 184268.vid

I meant Nell, as regards asking who it is behind Maresca; he was really scrying the Inuit Sollecito


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
The thing that needs changing in Italy is this: Knox and Sollecito were foundy guilty of murder.

The appeal that was thrown out by the Supreme Court meant they were released.

Surely a system that allows a person who has been found guilty, to escape (since this is what it amounts to) is one that needs rearranging in parts. It should because that appeal was NEVER going to be the end of the process, so I think that until a case has been finalised, anyone said to be not guilty by way of appeal, ought to be placed under some type of bail restraining order.

Knox should have been ordered to remain in Italy, under house arrest, in light of the amount of money any court could have known that Knox could have access to, the bail amount should have been set at a minimum of 1 million.

The process in between also needs to be improved and speeded up.

People escaping justice by means of cross-border travel, should be eliminated.

Changes need to be made, rules introduced making it illegal to publish books anywhere in the world until a case has been brought to an end.


I agree. A bracelet would also be a good idea. Polanski had to wear one when the Swiss police released him. He was under house arrest.

Judge Hellmann, about to retire, was carefully chosen in my opinion. The person who benefitted most from the deal was Amanda Knox. There is still some hope for her to get away with it, but not for Sollecito.



Glad you agree, I suspect that elements in this matter may urge those dealing with such matters to implement changes, you cannot catch a rat who has been eating all your food by letting it go expecting it to hang around until you get back with a meat cleaver to chop it's head off; the rat is gonna run.

There was something really odd about how it is such a man as Hellmann, of all cases and at that time, could have been lodged into position there there, it smells bad.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Scrying


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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bongiorno was making a fool of herself.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
The part I watched, Sollecito looked bored, uninterested, he seemed to stare at objects rather than looking at a person. He also yawned and rubbed his eyes often.

Nothing he controls. His father is paying the maximum amount of money to get him out of the shit again. He's just waiting.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bongiorno, concluding as a final plea that Guede did it all on his own, after everything the Supreme Court stipulated, is not only a sign of her having nothing else/better to submit to the court to round off nor the result of sheer stupidity, it is an act of defiance by her.

Without having --in a well-reasoned way in combination with the presentation of hard evidence-- laid out in a believable/conceivable, alternative scene and setting for the crimes, she just ignored the elements that DO underpin the evidence showing that Guede did NOT act alone.

Where this time the lay judges are being fully informed of facts and told how Meredith's DNA is definitely on the knife since there is no question of contamination, etc., Bongiorno having nothing more to say than what was already said before by her and deemed unacceptable by the Supreme Court, is once more a great example of a futile exercise by her.

Anything of real importance, everything that is relative, is written off by Knox's defence and supporters as floccinaucinihilipilification, or as something described by an equally short word.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Zorba, I meant to respond to you yesterday, so before I forget, I cracked up over your expression 'crankenhausen Fishkopf'. Absolutely loved it!

From where does the 'crankenhausen' originate? "Krank", with a "k", in German means sick or ill. Or is it like in cranky? Fishkopf in German would be "Fischkopf".

Whatever crankenhausen means, it made me laugh already. Very creative.
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
The thing that needs changing in Italy is this: Knox and Sollecito were foundy guilty of murder.

The appeal that was thrown out by the Supreme Court meant they were released.

Surely a system that allows a person who has been found guilty, to escape (since this is what it amounts to) is one that needs rearranging in parts. It should because that appeal was NEVER going to be the end of the process, so I think that until a case has been finalised, anyone said to be not guilty by way of appeal, ought to be placed under some type of bail restraining order.

Knox should have been ordered to remain in Italy, under house arrest, in light of the amount of money any court could have known that Knox could have access to, the bail amount should have been set at a minimum of 1 million euros.

The process in between also needs to be improved and speeded up.

People escaping justice by means of cross-border travel, should be eliminated.

Changes need to be made, rules introduced making it illegal to publish books anywhere in the world until a case has been brought to an end.


Forgive my impertinence, but this is the major cause of the confusion of "2nd trial" and "double jeopardy".

If the process is really not over, then why she was allowed to leave? In all fairness, she should have been given bail, with an undertaking to appear in court when needed.

I understand that a trial that takes place on a later time takes precedence. But should not she have been restrained with some official order with a view on the supreme court decision / finalization?

I don't mind about their works of fiction, though. The system appears to be designed for perversion.

The sieve leaks like hell!
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The American embassy facilitated this farce. Remember, her travel documents were ready October 03 2011, with Steve Moore riding shotgun to spirit her out the country before the shell shocked Italians thought to request she be held till a final verdict could be reached. Or so Steve says :)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Zorba, I meant to respond to you yesterday, so before I forget, I cracked up over your expression 'crankenhausen Fishkopf'. Absolutely loved it!

From where does the 'crankenhausen' originate? "Krank", with a "k", in German means sick or ill. Or is it like in cranky? Fishkopf in German would be "Fischkopf".

Whatever crankenhausen means, it made me laugh already. Very creative.


Hi Nell,

It made me laugh too trying to recreate what I heard sometime years ago, being said by a German guy, and though I couldn't speak German, I did kind of get certain bits somehow, it sounded so funny, the kranken bit especially, I cannot remember exactly how it went, but it definitely (as you said too), had a ''krank' bit in it, I should have used a K.

The intention is something like: that ''madhouse of a character/person''

but the German language version does sound much funnier than madhouse,
When I even think of the words that guy said and his manner I satill have to laugh.

I hear that same guy saying it in a certain hilarious way, even though I couldn't understand German.
The tones, I just got.
What made it even funnier was that he was not shouting, swearing, he was declaring someone else crazy. His sober, matter of fact tone, a kind of observation based report, when simply talking/in discussion with friends, was what made it sound so funny, I've never forgotten it.

It had some of this in it too, which I always found really funny sounding: Wos ist los mit die leute

Kranken was used in combination with the German word leute (for people, which I gather is slang, a bit, or informal).

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
zorba wrote:
The thing that needs changing in Italy is this: Knox and Sollecito were foundy guilty of murder.

The appeal that was thrown out by the Supreme Court meant they were released.

Surely a system that allows a person who has been found guilty, to escape (since this is what it amounts to) is one that needs rearranging in parts. It should because that appeal was NEVER going to be the end of the process, so I think that until a case has been finalised, anyone said to be not guilty by way of appeal, ought to be placed under some type of bail restraining order.

Knox should have been ordered to remain in Italy, under house arrest, in light of the amount of money any court could have known that Knox could have access to, the bail amount should have been set at a minimum of 1 million euros.

The process in between also needs to be improved and speeded up.

People escaping justice by means of cross-border travel, should be eliminated.

Changes need to be made, rules introduced making it illegal to publish books anywhere in the world until a case has been brought to an end.


Forgive my impertinence, but this is the major cause of the confusion of "2nd trial" and "double jeopardy".

If the process is really not over, then why she was allowed to leave? In all fairness, she should have been given bail, with an undertaking to appear in court when needed.

I understand that a trial that takes place on a later time takes precedence. But should not she have been restrained with some official order with a view on the supreme court decision / finalization?

I don't mind about their works of fiction, though. The system appears to be designed for perversion.

The sieve leaks like hell!


Glad to see you see something in this idea Chami.
I mean the potential harm to society then, in an unfinished process, where the law allows someone out, who is potentially quite able/liable/ready to commit crimes that are equally abhorrent to citizens, means the state is allowing a person to be let loose, one who poses great danger to any population anywhere in the world.
That cannot be okay.

Would Bin Ladin have been let go off with no restraints in place, would the Boston bomber be let go of with no bonds in place at all?

Since a case has not been finalised, and those on trial were already found guilty, it's insane to allow them to be able to walk away and make a mockery of the procedure, as Knox does from her, what she imagines is, safe distance/haven.

Surely some new clauses can be inserted, and surely a guilty finding/ruling, is enough to validate the holding of a person for at least 1 year (yet even a not guilty finding should mean where the case is not yet done with people should not be given the opportunity to escape), in which time, the defendant's counsel must be ready to defend, meaning under obligation to defend and if they do not then the person can be held, the term extended, and it will be the defending party's fault for any extension put into place. The prosecution should then also be under obligation to be ready for court.

I say a year but I admit it isn't as if I've thought all of it right through, so maybe 2 years then, or 18 months, however, any so-called statute of limitation ought never be allowed to allow any person to get away with murder and suchlike.
Andreotti got away with everything as a result of the statute of limitations.

So devious lawyers can hang it out and make things go on and on and on until the case gets thrown out. That is not right.

Counsel/lawyers should have steep fines imposed on them if they have not got their paperwork together (for example) 3 months ahead of the court hearing dates set, that way, they'd think it less of a joke when they in fact undermine the law.

If a defence team/prosecutors can show they genuinely must wait for a result then court dates should be extended, and criminals not ever set loose, avoiding paying for the terrible things they've done.


Chami quote: Forgive my impertinence, but this is the major cause of the confusion of "2nd trial" and "double jeopardy".

Unquote: Yes, good point, it is this angle that allowed people to spread the myth of case overturned, case done, acquittal, when I'm sure if one studies up on the Italian concepts involved, acquittal doesn't enter into it; it was never an acquittal, which is to say, it's all done with and that's the end of it, so it CANNOT ever have been what one can define as an acquittal. It was a judgment overturned in a process of appeal.

[Note, some may think judgment is not correct and in British English it should be judgement. In matters of law, judgment is correct (mainly used) in British English while: In my judgement, I would say Knox and Sollecito are highly untrustworthy individuals, is also British English]


The thesaurus defines the sense in which acquittal is relevant to these proceedings, where the acquittal is NOT full, or end of:

Thesaurus Legend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms

Noun
1.
acquittal - a judgment of not guilty
final decision, final judgment - a judgment disposing of the case before the court; after the judgment (or an appeal from it) is rendered all that remains is to enforce the judgment


law, jurisprudence - the collection of rules imposed by authority;
"civilization presupposes respect for the law";
"the great problem for jurisprudence to allow freedom while enforcing order"

judgment of conviction, sentence, conviction, condemnation - (criminal law) a final judgment of guilty in a criminal case and the punishment that is imposed; "the conviction came as no surprise"

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

People like Nick Pisa are guilty of spreading falsehoods, he who supposedly understands Italian.

Yet I see him on Twitter too, acting like he and Nadeau are chums, I'm in town, if you want to meet up let me know.

I'm afraid, the only journalist I can see who has really been on the ball and not profited from this murder case, is Andrea Vogt.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Zorba, I meant to respond to you yesterday, so before I forget, I cracked up over your expression 'crankenhausen Fishkopf'. Absolutely loved it!

From where does the 'crankenhausen' originate? "Krank", with a "k", in German means sick or ill. Or is it like in cranky? Fishkopf in German would be "Fischkopf".

Whatever crankenhausen means, it made me laugh already. Very creative.


Yes crank as in those in crank houses, nut-houses, are nuts.

But I somehow have had to invent an own version as I cannot recall exactly that word he used. It was so funny it almost inspired me to start learning German.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
zorba wrote:
The thing that needs changing in Italy is this: Knox and Sollecito were foundy guilty of murder.

The appeal that was thrown out by the Supreme Court meant they were released.

Surely a system that allows a person who has been found guilty, to escape (since this is what it amounts to) is one that needs rearranging in parts. It should because that appeal was NEVER going to be the end of the process, so I think that until a case has been finalised, anyone said to be not guilty by way of appeal, ought to be placed under some type of bail restraining order.

Knox should have been ordered to remain in Italy, under house arrest, in light of the amount of money any court could have known that Knox could have access to, the bail amount should have been set at a minimum of 1 million euros.

The process in between also needs to be improved and speeded up.

People escaping justice by means of cross-border travel, should be eliminated.

Changes need to be made, rules introduced making it illegal to publish books anywhere in the world until a case has been brought to an end.


Forgive my impertinence, but this is the major cause of the confusion of "2nd trial" and "double jeopardy".

If the process is really not over, then why she was allowed to leave? In all fairness, she should have been given bail, with an undertaking to appear in court when needed.

I understand that a trial that takes place on a later time takes precedence. But should not she have been restrained with some official order with a view on the supreme court decision / finalization?

I don't mind about their works of fiction, though. The system appears to be designed for perversion.

The sieve leaks like hell!



Yes, on the other hand indeed, their works of fiction actually help cement their boots into place, make it easier to see how these two are, I mean just the titles, honor, of all of the things to choose, honor has nothing to do with anything, and the only way it could have anything to do with it, is not in the way he has pretended, it has to do with what he has hidden, in his so-called sticking by Knox, when in fact, he never did stick by her anyhow, he was ready to dump her in the harbour, he was until his lawyers made it clear to him it would not be as easy as that. Then he again abandoned his, one horse race, his one-sailored ship and started trying to align his rubbish course with hers.

Sollecito: Aye aye, capitano, he said to himself, is that a huge waterfall I see ahead with no chance of survival?
Yes it is, he replied to himself, FULL SPEED AHEAD

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

About murder, my next door neighbour keeps on playing the piano, I say playing, I mean something else, since long before Christmas she has been at the same tune, over and over and over and oer and over again, and also over again.. and again.

The people who left for Scotland and rented the place out to this girl left the piano there, and he wasn't that bright a spark either at it, playing at 8 in the morning on occasion, not for even a minute, but just enough to give me an alarm call on the Sunday morning, should I need to go ro church, etc.

His playing was one of those I remember listening to as a child, wanting as a child to hear nice music, which was a wonder to me at that time, but having the person keep stopping, until it was mad-driving, well, this guy the same thing, in the years he was present next door, not once did I hear him play a piece right through.

Now I happen to like baroque and some classical stuff, especially non-orchestra stuff, I can at certain times even appreciate opera, but there is no fixed line in irt, as at other times I cannot stand anything I might at other times like, that goes for old rock stuff, things I can olay, and I too know how to play bits of baroque by Bach but cannot say I can play a piece in its entirety either, only difference is, I do not attempt to play it every single day for hours.

I could then understand someone who, driven bonkers by the would-be neighbour's attempts to be a musician books them a free trip on the lake on a boat with a slow leak.

Anyhow, I do not know if she took to her bed at 8.30 this evening when her Rihanna thing stopped (that's the tune she keeps playing over and over), but experience now tells me she has no idea that a piano makesa noise, and is liable to return frtom the pub or wherever it is she goes, and start playing that tune again, half drunk.

I think of me some years ago on my own piano, and think, mm, you cannot get too uptight because you used to play a lot too, in fact the neighbour who thought she was deaf, turned out to be disturbed by my recitals.

Could it be the case that Knox has moved in next door, for it is common knowledge that she played those Beatle tunes over and over.

Now I know there isn't much chance that the new neighbour is called Knox, but I'm taking no chances and have screwed down all windows.

No, I'm just kidding, I did see the girl once, I don't know if she moved in with some guy there, but I haven't heard him lately, maybe he moved back in with his mother, when he discovered the pretty girl had this piano fetish/fixation or whatever you can that when someone plays the one tune several hours in the goddamned, well it is goddamned when that goes on, DAY.

I'm just relieved she likes Rihanna as opposed to Marching Tunes, not the least famous of which, is, Oh When the Saints...

Therefore, several times I did take to my bed today, as I was awoken far too early to start with, having no choice but to arise, I thought of taping a speaker box to the wall, speaker side to wall, and finding the most awful and loud rackety music type I could on your Your Tuberculosis, but me, I'm all for a peaceful life.

I may have to offer her lessons, so she starts using the black keys too, I may be able to allow the lid to fall accidentally on purpose on her fingers but that'd be sadistic and helpful at the same time.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

For your information:

Graham W. Phillips announced yesterday on Twitter that Amanda Knox might grant him an interview. He asked people to submit questions we would like him to ask her.

He received a lot of feedback and wrote a post on his blog summarising what he will submit to David Marriott for their consideration.

Brit in Ukraine - Amanda Knox – 16 Exclusive Interview Questions
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
For your information:

Graham W. Phillips announced yesterday on Twitter that Amanda Knox might grant him an interview. He asked people to submit questions we would like him to ask her.

He received a lot of feedback and wrote a post on his blog summarising what he will submit to David Marriott for their consideration.

Brit in Ukraine - Amanda Knox – 16 Exclusive Interview Questions



Checked him out Nell, don't know if I like the smell of him, I mean I cannot make out what he stands for or is about, was kind of surprised to see Marriot had provided his full contact details to this man from Britain, telling him he deals with any requests for interviews, etc., but, I don't know if I trust people like this guy and I cannot see much use in interviews since Knox isn't going to be telling the truth.

Seems to me at this stage (after her mistakes and self-incriminating releases) Knox may hand her replies to Marriot to be edited to remove her stupidity.


I must have this Chrome browser settings all wrong, because it seems to write some words automatically, different ones to what I wanted, will need to look into that.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
For your information:

Graham W. Phillips announced yesterday on Twitter that Amanda Knox might grant him an interview. He asked people to submit questions we would like him to ask her.

He received a lot of feedback and wrote a post on his blog summarising what he will submit to David Marriott for their consideration.

Brit in Ukraine - Amanda Knox – 16 Exclusive Interview Questions



Checked him out Nell, don't know if I like the smell of him, I mean I cannot make out what he stands for or is about, was kind of surprised to see Marriot had provided his full contact details to this man from Britain, telling him he deals with any requests for interviews, etc., but, I don't know if I trust people like this guy and I cannot see much use in interviews since Knox isn't going to be telling the truth.

Seems to me at this state (after her mistakes and self-incriminating releases) Knox may hand her replies to Marriot to be edited to remove her stupidity.


I must have this Chrome browser settings all wrong, because it seems to write some words automatically, different ones to what I wanted, will need to look into that.


You probably haven't visited Knox's blog that has been set up with the only purpose to promote her and polish her public image - which turned out to be an epic failure.

She provides an email address to contact David Marriott for media inquiries and the full address of her Italian lawyers for legal representation on her blog. So the only thing Graham Phillips did was sending them an email and receiving the - I guess - standard response. When he sends them the questions, he will probably never hear from them again.

Anyway, I am interested in her answers more than in the actual position of the journalist/blogger/author who conducts the interview.

Amanda Knox has revealed herself even in interviews that allowed her to present conflicting and shifting stories without criticism. A good example for useful interviews that I refer to even though they were supposed to strengthen the case for innocence is Chris Halkides' interview with Prof. David Balding.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I have a slightly different view on that to you Nell, as I do look at someone such as him, to see what his game is, there have been far too many people who have just wanted a leg up on the back of this murder, and so I am careful of helping people like that, the only thing she is likely to give away, will be through her stupidity.

Ukraine is a country with lots of problems, women are trafficked for prostitution, it's just I want then to be able to read about what it is that makes a guy opt to go there, I ask myself then, is he yet another one going there because it is easy to make misuse of the women and girls in an awful situation there. I just couldn't find his standpoints, it should be on his ABOUT page or at least be easy to locate

You are right about visiting her sight, I feel no urge at all to look it up, I've heard enough to know what it is about, others are welcome to do whatever they like, obviously.

The guy there may be okay but his pages didn't make anything clear to me, I saw a whole lot linked to sex in one way or another, to prostitutes, etc.

I'm not interested in her answers since I already know they will be complete and utter shit.
I am though, if she were to go so far as to engage, interested in her putting her foot in it again. Doubt she will now though.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

http://www.presstv.com/Program/279860.html

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I checked his site too, zorba. The sort of who might get a response from Marriott, not :)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
I have a slightly different view on that to you Nell, as I do look at someone such as him, to see what his game is, there have been far too many people who have juat wanted a leg up on the back of this murder, and so I am careful of helping people like that, the only thing she is likely to give away, will be through her stupidity. Ukraine is a country with lots of problems, women are trafficked for prostitution, it's just I want then to be able to read about what it is that makes a guy opt to go there, I ask myself trhen, is he yet another one going there because it is easy to make misuse of the women an girls in an awful situation there. I just couldn't find his standpoints, it shout be on his ABOUT page or at least be easy to locate

You are right about visiting her sight, I feel nuo urge at all too look it up, I've heard enough to know what it is about, others are welcome to do whatever they like, obviously.

The guy there may be okay but his pages didn't make anything clear to me, I saw a whole lot linked to sex in one way or another, to prostitutes, etc.

I'm not interested in her answers since I already know they will be complete and utter shit.
I am though, if she were to go so far as to engage, interested in her putting her foot in it again. Doubt she will now though.


Interesting viewpoint. I didn't pay much attention to the other sections, but after reading your post I scrolled through the blog a bit more and you are right.

It cannot be denied though that his questions are very well placed and eloquent.

I do not expect a response from Amanda Knox / David Marriott to his questions. As it is an interview conducted through email, she might come up with something very generic. She has time to think about her answers and people used to talk much without really saying anything are on her payroll. She will be able to consult with them.

It is important though that these questions are asked. They (and many more posted at both PMF's, TJMK and throughout the net) are the big elephant in the room.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

For those who are not aware, Steve Moore and Doug Bremner are carrying out a direct and public attack on the Kerchers. They have accused John Kercher Jnr. of writing under the pseudonym "Harry Rag", despite acknowledging in their articles that they don't have a clue. This has somewhat morphed to a quasi-fact among Knox supporters who tweet about it 24/7 stating it as a fact.

This has led to further attacks on the Kerchers.

in my opinion Amanda Knox and her supporters have never gotten over the fact that Meredith was more popular, and yes, I do believe that played part in the motive for the crime as well. Amanda Knox and her supporters are desperately trying to find fault with the Kerchers to liken them more to the Knox family who have been spreading their venom in interviews since years.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nina Burleigh also threw in a dig at the Kerchers here https://twitter.com/ninaburleigh/status ... 7685894144 Called her on her lack of professionalism, and posted all over about her and Steve Moore. But then, she and he are so yesterday, as Florence comes up with a verdict.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
I have a slightly different view on that to you Nell, as I do look at someone such as him, to see what his game is, there have been far too many people who have juat wanted a leg up on the back of this murder, and so I am careful of helping people like that, the only thing she is likely to give away, will be through her stupidity.

Ukraine is a country with lots of problems, women are trafficked for prostitution, it's just I want then to be able to read about what it is that makes a guy opt to go there, I ask myself then, is he yet another one going there because it is easy to make misuse of the women and girls in an awful situation there.
I just couldn't find his standpoints, it should be on his ABOUT page or at least be easy to locate

You are right about visiting her sight, I feel no urge at all to look it up, I've heard enough to know what it is about, others are welcome to do whatever they like, obviously.

The guy there may be okay but his pages didn't make anything clear to me, I saw a whole lot linked to sex in one way or another, to prostitutes, etc.

I'm not interested in her answers since I already know they will be complete and utter shit.
I am though, if she were to go so far as to engage, interested in her putting her foot in it again. Doubt she will now though.


Interesting viewpoint. I didn't pay much attention to the other sections, but after reading your post I scrolled through the blog a bit more and you are right.

It cannot be denied though that his questions are very well placed and eloquent.

I do not expect a response from Amanda Knox / David Marriott to his questions. As it is an interview conducted through email, she might come up with something very generic. She has time to think about her answers and people used to talk much without really saying anything are on her payroll. She will be able to consult with them.

It is important though that these questions are asked. They (and many more posted at both PMF's, TJMK and throughout the net) are the big elephant in the room.


Yes, I agree on his questions, they are well-put together, but his site was not easily surveyable I found, it was taking ages, all as I got was photos and then I came across him having visited Amsterdam and prostitutes, that's his right but there was a whole section called sex, I gave up trying to find what it is that he is really all about.
There are lots of people going to the Ukraine, such as old guys, and getting themselves these incredibly beautiful, young women, just like goes on in Thailand and the Philippines, so I was wondering if his site is one designed to generate income in some way more than really be concerned about any particular issue.

Guess I'll look him up a second time to be fair, when I'm less tired, as I don't think he is a baddy, his questions were really on the ball so he got that from somewhere, he must have been studying it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
The American embassy facilitated this farce. Remember, her travel documents were ready October 03 2011, with Steve Moore riding shotgun to spirit her out the country before the shell shocked Italians thought to request she be held till a final verdict could be reached. Or so Steve says :)

Didn't they spend the night at Dave Andersons?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
For your information:

Graham W. Phillips announced yesterday on Twitter that Amanda Knox might grant him an interview. He asked people to submit questions we would like him to ask her.

He received a lot of feedback and wrote a post on his blog summarising what he will submit to David Marriott for their consideration.

Brit in Ukraine - Amanda Knox – 16 Exclusive Interview Questions



Checked him out Nell, don't know if I like the smell of him, I mean I cannot make out what he stands for or is about, was kind of surprised to see Marriot had provided his full contact details to this man from Britain, telling him he deals with any requests for interviews, etc., but, I don't know if I trust people like this guy and I cannot see much use in interviews since Knox isn't going to be telling the truth.

Seems to me at this stage (after her mistakes and self-incriminating releases) Knox may hand her replies to Marriot to be edited to remove her stupidity.


I must have this Chrome browser settings all wrong, because it seems to write some words automatically, different ones to what I wanted, will need to look into that.


The PR Firm reply pertains to an interview, so it's possible that they will decline all requests for written answers to questions. Knox might prefer a well-paid dialogue, where she can provide a contradictions and move on to the next question.

Even if she is unable to provide the truth, an answer to the question of why she claims that she wants to honour Meredith's memory and simultaneously harasses her family is worth it. There is no truth in any answer. It's that she says one thing as a façade, and does another thing as the person behind the façade. It looks like passive aggressive behaviour, so the her truth, that may not seem real, is the façade. That actual truth is what she does, and that is to harass the family of her murder victim.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
For your information:

Graham W. Phillips announced yesterday on Twitter that Amanda Knox might grant him an interview. He asked people to submit questions we would like him to ask her.

He received a lot of feedback and wrote a post on his blog summarising what he will submit to David Marriott for their consideration.

Brit in Ukraine - Amanda Knox – 16 Exclusive Interview Questions



Checked him out Nell, don't know if I like the smell of him, I mean I cannot make out what he stands for or is about, was kind of surprised to see Marriot had provided his full contact details to this man from Britain, telling him he deals with any requests for interviews, etc., but, I don't know if I trust people like this guy and I cannot see much use in interviews since Knox isn't going to be telling the truth.

Seems to me at this state (after her mistakes and self-incriminating releases) Knox may hand her replies to Marriot to be edited to remove her stupidity.


I must have this Chrome browser settings all wrong, because it seems to write some words automatically, different ones to what I wanted, will need to look into that.


You probably haven't visited Knox's blog that has been set up with the only purpose to promote her and polish her public image - which turned out to be an epic failure.

She provides an email address to contact David Marriott for media inquiries and the full address of her Italian lawyers for legal representation on her blog. So the only thing Graham Phillips did was sending them an email and receiving the - I guess - standard response. When he sends them the questions, he will probably never hear from them again.

Anyway, I am interested in her answers more than in the actual position of the journalist/blogger/author who conducts the interview.

Amanda Knox has revealed herself even in interviews that allowed her to present conflicting and shifting stories without criticism. A good example for useful interviews that I refer to even though they were supposed to strengthen the case for innocence is Chris Halkides' interview with Prof. David Balding.


Chris Halkides has a bad habit of presenting himself as an expert, and then withholding half of the truth. That's not what real scientists do. I hope his research isn't limited in the same way. He hopes that no one is able to understand Balding, or read his report. Balding is very clear in that the DNA on the clasp can only belong to Sollecito, and it's highly unlikely that there was contamination. Halkides tells half the truth, stating that there could be four to five contributors. Balding did not strengthen the case for innocence, but Halkides seems unable to grasp this concept, or he, a scientist, prefers to perpetrate a belief that is at most half-true, and is in reality untrue.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
For those who are not aware, Steve Moore and Doug Bremner are carrying out a direct and public attack on the Kerchers. They have accused John Kercher Jnr. of writing under the pseudonym "Harry Rag", despite acknowledging in their articles that they don't have a clue. This has somewhat morphed to a quasi-fact among Knox supporters who tweet about it 24/7 stating it as a fact.

This has led to further attacks on the Kerchers.

in my opinion Amanda Knox and her supporters have never gotten over the fact that Meredith was more popular, and yes, I do believe that played part in the motive for the crime as well. Amanda Knox and her supporters are desperately trying to find fault with the Kerchers to liken them more to the Knox family who have been spreading their venom in interviews since years.


I also believe that jealousy was a factor in the murder of Meredith.

I suppose that it shouldn't be surprising that, as the verdict winds down, Knox is becoming hysterical and advocating that her gang attack the victim again, but more vehemently. People have a funny way of thinking that if they can pull someone down, it might look like they got ahead. If Meredith can be revealed to be like the passive/aggressive woman from Seattle who sought hook ups and pot during her European adventures, then it will become a fair battle ground for Knox. Knox will never get past the facts that taking language courses while looking for extreme experiences in Italy, and being from the US, is not enough to trump the much loved Erasmus student from England, whom she brutally murdered.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

delete


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
I checked his site too, zorba. The sort of who might get a response from Marriott, not :)



As pointed out here, it seems that they are forever in on an earner, interviews, lets milk the cow dry, said Marriot.
Me thinks someone (daddio perhaps) knew Marriot, knew of him, one or the other, maybe through work, because they sure come up with the fucker fast.

Nell, on this brother of the alcoholic police threatening lawyer...
well that's all I have to say really, apart from, of all people, John kept out of everything, having a family, children, a job, and whatever else, which is his business, he acted never as any kind of spokesman, so this pathetic act just goes to show what a total Cnut Bremner is, and Moore and Marriot are too.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
For your information:

Graham W. Phillips announced yesterday on Twitter that Amanda Knox might grant him an interview. He asked people to submit questions we would like him to ask her.

He received a lot of feedback and wrote a post on his blog summarising what he will submit to David Marriott for their consideration.

Brit in Ukraine - Amanda Knox – 16 Exclusive Interview Questions



Thanks for this Nell. Here's the proof of what we all already knew...that David Marriott vets all questions in advance before granting anyone an interview with Knox or her family!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
For those who are not aware, Steve Moore and Doug Bremner are carrying out a direct and public attack on the Kerchers. They have accused John Kercher Jnr. of writing under the pseudonym "Harry Rag", despite acknowledging in their articles that they don't have a clue. This has somewhat morphed to a quasi-fact among Knox supporters who tweet about it 24/7 stating it as a fact.

This has led to further attacks on the Kerchers.

in my opinion Amanda Knox and her supporters have never gotten over the fact that Meredith was more popular, and yes, I do believe that played part in the motive for the crime as well. Amanda Knox and her supporters are desperately trying to find fault with the Kerchers to liken them more to the Knox family who have been spreading their venom in interviews since years.



These slurs are being carried out for two reasons 1) to demonise the Kerchers in an attempt to justify the attacks carried out on them and 2) an attempt to pressure Harry Rag to come out and reveal his true identity and/or cease and desist in his activities for justice altogether.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
For those who are not aware, Steve Moore and Doug Bremner are carrying out a direct and public attack on the Kerchers. They have accused John Kercher Jnr. of writing under the pseudonym "Harry Rag", despite acknowledging in their articles that they don't have a clue. This has somewhat morphed to a quasi-fact among Knox supporters who tweet about it 24/7 stating it as a fact.

This has led to further attacks on the Kerchers.

in my opinion Amanda Knox and her supporters have never gotten over the fact that Meredith was more popular, and yes, I do believe that played part in the motive for the crime as well. Amanda Knox and her supporters are desperately trying to find fault with the Kerchers to liken them more to the Knox family who have been spreading their venom in interviews since years.



These slurs are being carried out for two reasons 1) to demonise the Kerchers in an attempt to justify the attacks carried out on them and 2) an attempt to pressure Harry Rag to come out and reveal his true identity and/or cease and desist in his activities for justice altogether.


Absolutely. But it is also direct harassment of John Kercher Jnr., whose employer details have been divulged on Twitter.

The Kercher family have spoken to the media on a few occasions only. Knox supporters would love to extort a reaction from them (just as Amanda Knox did through her blog) just to see if it will give them further ammunition to attack them.

Further I noticed that the usual suspects who retweeted one and the same tweet over and over again, claiming Harry was in fact John Kercher Jnr., have deleted their tweets. That's starting to get a bad habit.

Amanda Knox follows her most aggressive supporters on Twitter, so she has seen these messages as well and approves of them. Just as Jester said upthread, it's not what she says, it's what she does.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

@zorba, what you said. Good luck to Cnut turning back the tide ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

tamale wrote:
Ergon wrote:
The American embassy facilitated this farce. Remember, her travel documents were ready October 03 2011, with Steve Moore riding shotgun to spirit her out the country before the shell shocked Italians thought to request she be held till a final verdict could be reached. Or so Steve says :)

Didn't they spend the night at Dave Andersons?


No, Waiting To Be Hurled has a derring do scene where she is spirited away to Rome with Steve Moore, armed with AK47 and assorted grenade launchers, riding shotgun.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It is Frank Sfarzo who spends many a night hiding out at David Andersons.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
For those who are not aware, Steve Moore and Doug Bremner are carrying out a direct and public attack on the Kerchers. They have accused John Kercher Jnr. of writing under the pseudonym "Harry Rag", despite acknowledging in their articles that they don't have a clue. This has somewhat morphed to a quasi-fact among Knox supporters who tweet about it 24/7 stating it as a fact.

This has led to further attacks on the Kerchers.

in my opinion Amanda Knox and her supporters have never gotten over the fact that Meredith was more popular, and yes, I do believe that played part in the motive for the crime as well. Amanda Knox and her supporters are desperately trying to find fault with the Kerchers to liken them more to the Knox family who have been spreading their venom in interviews since years.



These slurs are being carried out for two reasons 1) to demonise the Kerchers in an attempt to justify the attacks carried out on them and 2) an attempt to pressure Harry Rag to come out and reveal his true identity and/or cease and desist in his activities for justice altogether.


Do you have more details about who published John Kercher Jr's employment information online?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
For those who are not aware, Steve Moore and Doug Bremner are carrying out a direct and public attack on the Kerchers. They have accused John Kercher Jnr. of writing under the pseudonym "Harry Rag", despite acknowledging in their articles that they don't have a clue. This has somewhat morphed to a quasi-fact among Knox supporters who tweet about it 24/7 stating it as a fact.

This has led to further attacks on the Kerchers.

in my opinion Amanda Knox and her supporters have never gotten over the fact that Meredith was more popular, and yes, I do believe that played part in the motive for the crime as well. Amanda Knox and her supporters are desperately trying to find fault with the Kerchers to liken them more to the Knox family who have been spreading their venom in interviews since years.



These slurs are being carried out for two reasons 1) to demonise the Kerchers in an attempt to justify the attacks carried out on them and 2) an attempt to pressure Harry Rag to come out and reveal his true identity and/or cease and desist in his activities for justice altogether.


Do you have more details about who published John Kercher Jr's employment information online?


Doug Bremner published it. See screenshot from my post upthread. I am not sure if Steve Moore mentioned it as well. The full article can still be found on his blog.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Doug Bremner wrote about it first on his blog on January 1.

Quote:
Kercher Family Conducts Long Term Campaign To Obtain The Conviction Of Amanda Knox by Doug Bremner

The family of the murder victim Meredith Kercher has conducted a sustained campaign over the past six years to obtain the conviction of Amanda Knox for the murder of Meredith Kercher. ... The brother of Meredith Kercher, John Kercher, Jr., has been writing under the pseudonym of “harryrag,” where he has conducted an ongoing campaign over the last six years dedicated to the conviction of Amanda Knox for a murder which she did not commit. This has involved a perseverative campaign to write on internet sites a series of untruths such as ... . John has conducted a spirited internet campaign to convict Amanda Knox of the crime of murdering his sister, including active participation in anti-Amanda Knox hate sites like True Justice for Meredith Kercher (TJMK), which he has cited 119 times on his youtube site, as well as Perugia Murder File (PMF). On these sites and on twitter John has called my sister, whose crime in his eyes appears to be the fact that she has represented Amanda Knox as an attorney, a “prisoner,” “criminal,” “liar,” and various other more unsavoury things. Apparently John doesn’t feel like people have the right to representation in a court of law, or that people shouldn’t be allowed to pursue what they determine to be justice in whatever way they see fit. John was part of a group that contacted my employer, Emory University, complaining about my blog, because I had committed the crime of exercising my right of free speech by writing about the case on the internet. In fact, everyone who has written on behalf of the innocence of Amanda Knox has had complaints lodged with their employers, and in once case this led to a termination of employment. John Kercher, Sr., also lodged a complaint against my sister with the Washington State Bar, apparently for the crime of representing someone he, mistakenly, thinks is guilty and does not deserve representation. John Sr. writes for English tabloids, so it is not surprising that he would have a cavalier approach to the law, coming from a tradition of English journalists like Nick Pisa and others writing for the Daily Mail (daily fail), the now-defunct News of the World, The Sun, etc, who wrote a series of lies about the Amanda Knox case, as well as committing crimes like illegally hacking into cell phones on an endemic basis. This is all a pattern of rampant xenophobia and anti-Americanism (try reading the comment sections of one of those rags, no pun intended, if you can stomach it for a minute). John Jr. is an employee of the BBC, which they have never disclosed, in spite of the fact that they have written a series of articles biased against Amanda Knox. I wrote about this connection a month ago on my twitter account, and they have still not taken the opportunity to disclose this conflict of interest. The BBC penned a moronic article in which they quoted the so-called math expert and author (with her young daughter) of the book “Math on Trial” Leila Schneps, who writes on the Knox website PMF under the moniker “Thoughtful” and who came up with the hair-brained idea in reference to the case that if you don’t have a sample of DNA that is adequate to test, you should repeat the test over and over until you get a positive result. Anyone who didn’t fall asleep in science class would see at once what a ridiculous statement this is, but that didn’t stop the BBC from quoting her at length, complete with nifty graphics. However, we shouldn’t follow the example of the English to engage in rampant anti-Americanism, since the New York Times also wrote an editorial quoting the same source and ridiculous theories of “Thoughtful.”



Steve Moore followed:

Quote:
Investigations & Families Of The Victims by Steve Moore, published on January 6, 2014

Recent revelations do apparently give credence, if not proof, to the belief of many that Harry Rag is in reality a member of the immediate family of Meredith Kercher; namely, her brother John Kercher, Jr., an employee of the BBC. ‘Harry’ has done nothing to disprove the allegations except to offer denials entirely unsupported by evidence. His refusal to end such speculation by simply identifying himself is particularly perplexing, and if he is not John Kercher, Jr., equally damaging to the people he attempts to defend.
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

That was indeed Steve Moore who wears the passive pants in his family. Aggressive pants Michelle Moore has been tweeting it to her media friends then whining when I called her and Joe Starr out on it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Harry Rag tweets there will be a Twitter Storm Jan 20, Doug Bremner responds. He's busy otherwise promoting his still not yet released movie, this is just a sideshow for these FOA media ghouls.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Intermezzo: Winter Chick Peas

Ing:
1) Glass jar (about 2 honey jars full) of ready cooked chick peas (or tin but jar better) or cook them yourself (takes ages)
2) Two medium onions
3) Nice tablespoon of tomato puree
4) Nice tablespoon or two of red paprika puree
5) Some carrots, cleaned whole or whatever shape and size you like (whole if small ones leaves more taste inside
6) Some potato (use common sense with amounts, don't need 20 tons)
7) A little bit of fresh or dried thyme
8) A very little bit of fresh rosemary or none at all (in water based dishes rosemary very strong)
9) Oil, salt, pepper and possibly cayenne pepper (I love pepper all types)
10) Boiled water

Tools:
Large pan
Chopping board
Knife

Method:
1) Have everything ready
2) Fry onions in some oil until golden brown.
3) Low heat (not roaring), add, the thyme, possible rosemary (just a few of those little, long thin leaves) the tablespoon of tomato puree, stir and let it become orange and smell nice, but no darken or it will taste horrible, add the paprika, stir another minute (all of this is only a minute or two)
4) Add carrots, potatoes, chick peas, water, stir, cook on low heat, cook slow, until soft, and water content (that was enough to just about cover) is reduced. The herbs should in no way dominate the final all round taste, so if they do, you used too much.

Very nice if you don't want to get fat from eating all of that meat.

Eat with a chapati, a piece of toast or bread. (you can also add a a little bit of pasta if you like and eat no bread types at all)

Delicious, it sounds like meat ''chick'' but isn't, what more do you want?

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sound delicious , I just have paprika and didn't know there was a puree , that should work too , maybe use less?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
For your information:

Graham W. Phillips announced yesterday on Twitter that Amanda Knox might grant him an interview. He asked people to submit questions we would like him to ask her.

He received a lot of feedback and wrote a post on his blog summarising what he will submit to David Marriott for their consideration.

Brit in Ukraine - Amanda Knox – 16 Exclusive Interview Questions


So she is still being represented by Marriott. WOW and he allowed her to confess about the burglary prank?

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Offline SqueakEMouse


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Pardon my ignorance. Is Doug Bremner related to Anne Bremner the drink driving lawyer?
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

SqueakEMouse wrote:
Pardon my ignorance. Is Doug Bremner related to Anne Bremner the drink driving lawyer?


Apparently he's a psychiatrist. How can a psychiatrist possibly think that it's a good idea to identify people that post anonymously on the internet? Is he's an angry man that is unable to debate an anonymous person, so he wants to put a target on someone? Does he have no respect for privacy? I wonder how his patients feel about his online activities.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Sound delicious , I just have paprika and didn't know there was a puree , that should work too , maybe use less?


Hi Mal, yes you can use fresh paprika and you'll know how to use those, ineed less because a puree works differently to a whole product, for example, deseed and cut in half, no need to make small, or otherwise cut very small and use a couple.

My puree comes from Turkey and I only recently discovered it (so if you know of any Turkish/Greek stores you'll most likely find some in there (all the peas and bean sorts too), and was blown away with the taste it creates in these types of dished because, replace chick peas with red kidney beans, white beans (largish ones) oh yeah I forgot to mention what I've been doing lately, and that's adding a handful of orange split lentils, the dal most commonly used in India, to make dal masoer, add a bit more water if you use some red lentils and it will thicken the dish up and they have an incredibly wholesome, good, savoury taste too.

I'll have to look yup how to make the puree, maybe just place a few in a blender, or barbecue them first, removing the black skins and then use the blender.


Bon appetit

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
Nell wrote:
For your information:

Graham W. Phillips announced yesterday on Twitter that Amanda Knox might grant him an interview. He asked people to submit questions we would like him to ask her.

He received a lot of feedback and wrote a post on his blog summarising what he will submit to David Marriott for their consideration.

Brit in Ukraine - Amanda Knox – 16 Exclusive Interview Questions


So she is still being represented by Marriott. WOW and he allowed her to confess about the burglary prank?



i reckon he wants to represent her at ALL times but what with the internet she just gets online sometimes (as she did not realise that official PR and her part-time attempts at self-promotion [SP] both amount to publicity) and writes and so disobeys his orders, as it is obvious (or he must be really thick too) that he would not have allowed her to debunk her supporters' claims about never having done such a thing to any student.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
SqueakEMouse wrote:
Pardon my ignorance. Is Doug Bremner related to Anne Bremner the drink driving lawyer?


Apparently he's a psychiatrist. How can a psychiatrist possibly think that it's a good idea to identify people that post anonymously on the internet? If he's an angry man that is unable to debate an anonymous person, so he wants to put a target on someone? Does he have no respect for privacy? I wonder how his patients feel about his online activities.



Hi I've followed the case since the murder happened and I know he only started commenting a couple of years ago, maybe not even two years ago obviously through his older sister's influence, meaning, she went on about it to him when visiting mom, where he obviously still lives.

You'd think they'd shut up, after what was made known about her, and how she tried to scare the police, order them around, when they ignored her and arrested her and placed her in the police cells anyway for driving while under the influence of alcohol and the reason she got caught was she was driving at 10 miles per hour and the tyre was flat or damaged. It's then they discovered she was under the influence, and the reason she was driving so slow was because of the tyre but at the time the police stated that they saw her driving ridiculously slow and winding left to right.

Now that is yet another prime example of the good citizen's speaking for Knox. A liar and a person who thought she was above the law, this according to the police accounts published in the press at the time it happened.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
It is Frank Sfarzo who spends many a night hiding out at David Andersons.


Thank you...and happy anniversary of your birth.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
Nell wrote:
For your information:

Graham W. Phillips announced yesterday on Twitter that Amanda Knox might grant him an interview. He asked people to submit questions we would like him to ask her.

He received a lot of feedback and wrote a post on his blog summarising what he will submit to David Marriott for their consideration.

Brit in Ukraine - Amanda Knox – 16 Exclusive Interview Questions


So she is still being represented by Marriott. WOW and he allowed her to confess about the burglary prank?

Further proving they don't care about the product...only the $$$.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Doug Bremner wrote about it first on his blog on January 1.

Quote:
Kercher Family Conducts Long Term Campaign To Obtain The Conviction Of Amanda Knox by Doug Bremner
John Jr. is an employee of the BBC, which they have never disclosed, in spite of the fact that they have written a series of articles biased against Amanda Knox. I wrote about this connection a month ago on my twitter account, and they have still not taken the opportunity to disclose this conflict of interest.


Doug Bremner sounds angry that no one took notice of his accusation earlier, so he chose to enlist Steve Moore for help to promote his baseless accusation.

I didn't know Bremner was a Prof. of psychiatry. Steve Moore mentions in his article a psychologist he spoke to, without naming him. Could it be Bremner?

From Steve Moore's article:

Quote:
Secondarily, it matters because of an anonymous individual who calls ‘himself’ (if we are to believe his claims of being male) “Harry Rag.” After years of literally obsessive and hateful rants (interspersed with rare moments of civility and debate), I discussed Harry’s posts with a psychologist friend of mine who opined that he had never seen someone “not directly related to the victim” who maintained such a vociferous and personal interest in the crime.


So far neither Bremner nor Moore have substantiated their claims that John Kercher Jr. writes under the pseudonym of "Harry Rag".

Following Moore 's blog, he believes the ball is in Rag's court to give up his identity to end the speculation.

The FOA should be renamed to MORONS UNITED.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Amanda Knox is prepared to become a fugitive if found guilty.

Telegraph UK


A good reason for law enforcement to track her... pp-(
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

He works for the BBC so while still inappropriate it is unlikely to cause any harm. The BBC is used to dealing with crazy people yelling at them. I was concerned that he was employed at a smaller organization where even if sympathetic the harassment of the loons who advocate for Knox would be disruptive. This is a completely ineffective attempt at damaging someone but it demonstrates the mentality of the core Knox support group.

Doug Bremner sounds like a complete loon in that passage Nell quoted.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

tamale wrote:
Ergon wrote:
It is Frank Sfarzo who spends many a night hiding out at David Andersons.


Thank you...and happy anniversary of your birth.


Frank was the one who told me they were there directly after Amandas release. So, maybe it is a lie.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks for the wishes, tamale.

From Follain, location 5996: "Late that night Amanda was driven out of Capanne Prison in a black Mercedes with tinted windows, headed for a hotel on the coast south of Rome, near Fiumicino airport" Waiting To Be Feared also has it as a late night dash straight from prison.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:

So far neither Bremner nor Moore have substantiated their claims that John Kercher Jr. writes under the pseudonym of "Harry Rag".

Following Moore 's blog, he believes the ball is in Rag's court to give up his identity to end the speculation.

The logic of this bewilders me. huh-)
It's all Harry Rag's fault??? wtf)

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Only now I understand that Amanda Knox's appeal to the ECHR is a last ditch effort to avoid extradition, not to have any prior convictions overturned (which the ECHR cannot do anyway).

If you google it , arguing a violation of article 3 is apparently a very popular method to prepare for an extradition request.

Wikipedia - Extradition
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

sherrel wrote:
Nell wrote:

So far neither Bremner nor Moore have substantiated their claims that John Kercher Jr. writes under the pseudonym of "Harry Rag".

Following Moore 's blog, he believes the ball is in Rag's court to give up his identity to end the speculation.

The logic of this bewilders me. huh-)
It's all Harry Rag's fault??? wtf)


Steve Moore says it is. According to Moore, Harry Rag should put an end to the speculations by revealing his real identity. Otherwise, any distress caused to the poor Kerchers is on him.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Thanks for the wishes, tamale.

From Follain, location 5996: "Late that night Amanda was driven out of Capanne Prison in a black Mercedes with tinted windows, headed for a hotel on the coast south of Rome, near Fiumicino airport" Waiting To Be Feared also has it as a late night dash straight from prison.


Of course, that sounds logical. Those FOA types lie as they breathe. pp-(
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
sherrel wrote:
Nell wrote:

So far neither Bremner nor Moore have substantiated their claims that John Kercher Jr. writes under the pseudonym of "Harry Rag".

Following Moore 's blog, he believes the ball is in Rag's court to give up his identity to end the speculation.

The logic of this bewilders me. huh-)
It's all Harry Rag's fault??? wtf)


Steve Moore says it is. According to Moore, Harry Rag should put an end to the speculations by revealing his real identity. Otherwise, any distress caused to the poor Kerchers is on him.


I suspect that Steve Moore and his gang would like everyone that comments on the case to reveal their real identities, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. In fact, given the harassments that they deliver, I think common sense dictates that people not reveal their true identities. What a bizarre group of people they are!
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I did a very stupid thing today. I put a couple of steaks in a fry pan, seared them on one side, flipped them, and put the pan in the oven at 400F for a few minutes. I carefully put on the glove to take the pan out of the oven, took off the glove and then put my hand on the handle of the pan. Fortunately, there was a pot of cold water sitting in the sink so I immediately put my hand in that water and kept it there under running water for about 10 minutes. It started blistering a bit and I was advised to seek medical care. The doctor said that putting my hand in the water saved me from much worse injuries. Next time you burn yourself on a 400 degree pan, cold water for 10 minutes minimum is the best thing to do. It doesn't even hurt that much anymore, but maybe I'm just getting used to the pain.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ouch! Jester, please keep an aloe vera plant in the kitchen, in case there's a next time :(
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
sherrel wrote:
Nell wrote:

So far neither Bremner nor Moore have substantiated their claims that John Kercher Jr. writes under the pseudonym of "Harry Rag".

Following Moore 's blog, he believes the ball is in Rag's court to give up his identity to end the speculation.

The logic of this bewilders me. huh-)
It's all Harry Rag's fault??? wtf)


Steve Moore says it is. According to Moore, Harry Rag should put an end to the speculations by revealing his real identity. Otherwise, any distress caused to the poor Kerchers is on him.


I suspect that Steve Moore and his gang would like everyone that comments on the case to reveal their real identities, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. In fact, given the harassments that they deliver, I think common sense dictates that people not reveal their true identities. What a bizarre group of people they are!


I couldn't agree more with your opinion. Especially people who post regularly about the case are on their radar.

They have outed people on Twitter posting their photos and personal information. I can not say if they have their identities or photos right, but that doesn't matter. It is the intention that needs highlighting. It also needs to be stressed that Amanda Knox is a follower of the accounts that do the dirty work. I suspect they are either family or closely related to the Knox/Mellases. She approves and supports this kind of harassment and judging by her blog, encourages it.

We shouldn't be too surprised. She killed Meredith Kercher out of pure spite.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
I did a very stupid thing today. I put a couple of steaks in a fry pan, seared them on one side, flipped them, and put the pan in the oven at 400F for a few minutes. I carefully put on the glove to take the pan out of the oven, took off the glove and then put my hand on the handle of the pan. Fortunately, there was a pot of cold water sitting in the sink so I immediately put my hand in that water and kept it there under running water for about 10 minutes. It started blistering a bit and I was advised to seek medical care. The doctor said that putting my hand in the water saved me from much worse injuries. Next time you burn yourself on a 400 degree pan, cold water for 10 minutes minimum is the best thing to do. It doesn't even hurt that much anymore, but maybe I'm just getting used to the pain.


I am so sorry to hear that Jester. That must hurt badly. I hope your hand gets better soon!
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
I did a very stupid thing today. I put a couple of steaks in a fry pan, seared them on one side, flipped them, and put the pan in the oven at 400F for a few minutes. I carefully put on the glove to take the pan out of the oven, took off the glove and then put my hand on the handle of the pan. Fortunately, there was a pot of cold water sitting in the sink so I immediately put my hand in that water and kept it there under running water for about 10 minutes. It started blistering a bit and I was advised to seek medical care. The doctor said that putting my hand in the water saved me from much worse injuries. Next time you burn yourself on a 400 degree pan, cold water for 10 minutes minimum is the best thing to do. It doesn't even hurt that much anymore, but maybe I'm just getting used to the pain.



Ouch, in restaurants where I worked they had those heavy duty frying pans which could be placed in the oven (burned myself that way a lot) but having a handle on them makes you forget, even if you are right there busy with it all, that they have been in the oven, because a frying pan's handle doesn't usually get hot, depending on the type an quality, so you automatically reach out to grab it, better to transfer them to an oven dish after the frying pan searing process.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I expect the activities undertaken by people like Moore only help convince people, ones not even following the case a lot, that Knox and her friends smell real bad; instead of having people believe hey these lovely people, etc., they achieve the opposite.

Knox has no common sense, neither does Sollecito.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm notorious for crazy kitchen disasters, so this is just one more in the list of many. It hurts a lot, but it sure isn't as bad as one would expect from 400 degrees. When I was a child, my parents had us put a burn in butter, or milk, so I was sceptical about the water until today.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
sherrel wrote:
Nell wrote:

So far neither Bremner nor Moore have substantiated their claims that John Kercher Jr. writes under the pseudonym of "Harry Rag".

Following Moore 's blog, he believes the ball is in Rag's court to give up his identity to end the speculation.

The logic of this bewilders me. huh-)
It's all Harry Rag's fault??? wtf)


Steve Moore says it is. According to Moore, Harry Rag should put an end to the speculations by revealing his real identity. Otherwise, any distress caused to the poor Kerchers is on him.


I suspect that Steve Moore and his gang would like everyone that comments on the case to reveal their real identities, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. In fact, given the harassments that they deliver, I think common sense dictates that people not reveal their true identities. What a bizarre group of people they are!


I couldn't agree more with your opinion. Especially people who post regularly about the case are on their radar.

They have outed people on Twitter posting their photos and personal information. I can not say if they have their identities or photos right, but that doesn't matter. It is the intention that needs highlighting. It also needs to be stressed that Amanda Knox is a follower of the accounts that do the dirty work. I suspect they are either family or closely related to the Knox/Mellases. She approves and supports this kind of harassment and judging by her blog, encourages it.

We shouldn't be too surprised. She killed Meredith Kercher out of pure spite.


Knox is some kind of nasty piece of work. By her actions, we know that she condones harassing the family of her victim. There is a long history of murderers that will not leave the families of their victims alone. I believe the father of one of the victims of Clifford Robert Olsen (serial child murderer) committed suicide after being harassed by his son's murderer. Sollecito visited Meredith's grave, didn't tell anyone for a couple of years, and only spoke up when Knox decided to make a spectacle of herself by demanding that she be allowed to visit the grave and communicate directly with her victim's family. Sollecito then released information that he visited the grave quietly with a friend. There was no need to make a spectacle of himself. Perhaps that was his way of telling her to do the same if it was important to her. Her handling of wanting to "visit Meredith's grave" is completely inappropriate.

I'm really interested in the prank aspect of the murder. As a prank, many of the pieces of the puzzle fall into place. Has the Wikipedia site been updated to include debunked myths? It's no longer a myth that Knox found it entertaining to disguise herself, and encourage friends to join in, to scare the wits out of roommates by simulating a burglary and assault. Sex game gone wrong, burglary gone wrong, pranking home invasion that went too far, and Meredith is dead. I think there is no question that Knox wanted to retaliate against Meredith, and we know from Burleigh's book, and Knox's own admission, that "pranks" were her way of getting attention and dealing with situations that she didn't like.

Is Knox allowed to travel to England? She is not allowed to travel to Canada due to her criminal conviction and time in prison. She must wait five years after the day of her release before she can cross the US/CAN border. Wouldn't England and the EU have a similar law? That is, if someone spent a few years in prison, they must have a clean record for five years to be allowed into the country. If that is the case in the EU, then Knox's demands are further revealed as nothing but harassment. Anyone know how that works in the UK or the EU?
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Offline zorba


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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

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Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
I'm notorious for crazy kitchen disasters, so this is just one more in the list of many. It hurts a lot, but it sure isn't as bad as one would expect from 400 degrees. When I was a child, my parents had us put a burn in butter, or milk, so I was sceptical about the water until today.



Oops, be careful with hot oil then, like for deep frying, that is the most dangerous thing.

My main accident in the kitchen these days is knocking the drainage pipe loose (Ikea) under the sink in the cupboard where I keep all of those bags from the supermarkets (thousands because if you try re-using them you end up with your shopping sprawled across the street so I use them for the waste container), so the water all runs out onto the tiled floor, whereupon I have no choice but to think, mm, well the floor did need a clean, after which I swiftly remove everything and go into clean up operation mode. I do have a bag for life but dammit, no matter how environmentally friendly I want to be, walking around with a bag that my gran would use means that thing is yet to BE used, therefore it is a bag for the next millennium.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
I expect the activities undertaken by people like Moore only help convince people, ones not even following the case a lot, that Knox and her friends smell real bad; instead of having people believe hey these lovely people, etc., they achieve the opposite.

Knox has no common sense, neither does Sollecito.


I agree.

Should someone who is not closely following this case accidentally end up on G.I. Joe's blog, he will be left bewildered at this madman's statements.

First G.I. Joe says it's as good as proven Harry Rag is John Kercher Jr. and later he laughs the criticism over his unsubstantiated accusation off by stating he never said this!

Read for yourself:

Quote:
Investigations & Families Of The Victims by Steve Moore, published on January 6, 2014

Recent revelations do apparently give credence, if not proof, to the belief of many that Harry Rag is in reality a member of the immediate family of Meredith Kercher;namely, her brother John Kercher, Jr., an employee of the BBC. ‘Harry’ has done nothing to disprove the allegations except to offer denials entirely unsupported by evidence. His refusal to end such speculation by simply identifying himself is particularly perplexing, and if he is not John Kercher, Jr., equally damaging to the people he attempts to defend.



Two days later he writes:

Quote:
Musings In A Show Trial by Steve Moore, published January 8, 2014

Typically, in the responses to the article (second hand, as they were) the opposition had created a straw man argument to the piece. That is, they argued against and criticized me for saying something I never did. They claim I criticized a member of the family of murder victim Meredith Kercher, and that I positively linked that family member with a prolific, mean-spirited blogger, “Harry Rag.”

Of course, I did nothing of the kind. I was careful to take no position on the true identity of the blogger, though I did criticize him. In my defense, the opposition has steadfastly maintained that this blogger is not a Kercher. Therefore, I could not have been criticizing a member of the victim’s family. I have not accused any member of the Kercher family of any wrongdoing. In fact, I stated that if they had, they should be afforded great latitude and mercy due to their pain.
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:40 am   Post subject: STEVE AND MICHELLE MOORE, CAUGHT STALKING AGAIN   

Steve and Michelle Moore are denying they had anything to do with naming John Kercher Jr. as Harry Rag, but then, they lie all the time. How that fits with their professed 'Christianity', I do not know.

1) Moore admits on his blog he looked for Peter Quennell's employment records

2) FOA adversary BRMull's old problems surface from an anonymous source, Michelle calls up his wife and threatens him.

3) Michelle Moore was snooping around my Linked In Profile a few months back.

4) There is a John Kercher working for the BBC listed on the Linked In website. Therefore, (they assume) he must be Meredith's brother, and since they want to attack the Kerchers, they assume he is posting anonymously as "Harry Rag", which they know simply is not true.

5) Posting on Twitter, I accused the Moores of starting the attacks on the Kerchers, and got Michelle Moore to admit she was checking John Kercher on Linked In: https://twitter.com/michellesings/statu ... 4978118656

Quote:
Naseer Ahmad ‏@manfromatlan 17h
@michellesings @Meadow_wolf @harryrag @Gman_Moore @dougbremner You can always snoop around my linked in profile AGAIN, Michelle. I saw that.



Quote:
Michelle Moore‏@michellesings
@manfromatlan @Meadow_wolf @harryrag @Gman_Moore @dougbremner snooping wud mean u sign OUT 1rst. John Kercher Jr. has changed his profile


It looks like Steve and Michelle Moore did their usual slapshot 'investigation', passed it on to friend Doug Bremner to publish, then gleefully posted this here http://gmancasefile.com/1/post/2014/01/ ... ctims.html

Quote:
INVESTIGATIONS
AND THE FAMILIES OF VICTIMS:
A DELICATE BALANCE

"With the recent discovery of evidence of the possible identity of vehement, frequently malicious, and obsessive anti-Amanda Knox blogger “Harry Rag, I think it is prudent to discuss, with great respect and care, the issue of ‘victim families.’ This article, however, will not take sides on the claims and counter-claims of the identity of Harry Rag.”


Michelle then tweets this lie to all their media friends. They are a vindictive classless couple, and I would just laugh at them, if they hadn't attacked Meredith's family. J'Accuse.
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