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XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14

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Offline Slade


Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:39 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just saw a video news clip from Fox cable news with Shepard Smith and guest, Ted Simon. The video clip is 5:37 minutes. In it, Ted is very inaccurate, of course, and rambles on about no evidence and doesn't answer a direct question re: AK's potential extradition -- isn't extradition suppose to be Ted's speciality?
ih)

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2813034076001/amanda-knoxs-lawyer-says-there-will-never-be-any-evidence/?intcmp=obnetwork
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
McCall posted a neat flow chart of the many trials here on .ORG http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewto ... 38#p148838 Could someone download it here please so we can comment and offer suggestions before he makes a graphic? Still figuring out my new Windows 8 computer :)



Only you should not call them trials because they are not.


Some of them are, including Rudy Guede's. Shortened for brevity, spending a lot of time on Twitter. Which had its IPO yesterday :)
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
A. Vogt

At one point the judge stopped a line of questioning by Knox’s Rome attorney Carlo Dalla Vedova, who was asking why the RIS described Knox’s DNA as “fluids” when a prior expert had said the trace did not come from blood. Nencini said: That question was not put to the RIS by this court, it was not their job to determine that. The other experts’ reports are in the case files for everyone to read, he noted, adding: “We cannot put words in the mouth of this expert that were said by another expert.”

So Knox's trace is blood.

Or did she sweat or spit on said knife?

It does seem like a logical conclusion. Amusing to see how the defense lawyer also thinks it meant that it was Knox's blood. He really wasn't doing himself any favors. I think this is the easiest explanation for the blood deposit on the top of the water tap (and the mixed blood traces) in the bathroom. I am not necessarily excluding any nose or ear bleedings. It is interesting that the RIS couldn't exclude another female profile in the trace. The same happened for the cotton box trace IIRC. I am not saying that there was another female involved, but that it implies a connection between those traces. Of course we already knew that :)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
McCall posted a neat flow chart of the many trials here on .ORG http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewto ... 38#p148838 Could someone download it here please so we can comment and offer suggestions before he makes a graphic? Still figuring out my new Windows 8 computer :)



Only you should not call them trials because they are not.


Some of them are, including Rudy Guede's. Shortened for brevity, spending a lot of time on Twitter. Which had its IPO yesterday :)



Well no, I disagree, of all of the procedures/hearings, the trial and the 2 appeals,
Guede's was not a trial,
since he opted for the abbreviated process,
cutting out the normal elements that constitute what a trial means/is,
he could not be cross-examined,
no witnesses could be called,
all as his process meant,
was that the judge was to rule on the evidence entered by the prosecutor,
and Guede by opting for that RITO,
opted to have whatever the prosecuutor entered ruled on by the judge without contesting it.


Preliminary hearing, not trial, court trial, court appeal, not ''court appeal trial''.

The trial is had, the appeal is against the trial ruling.


I cannot recall off the top of my head but I studied up on it, and in various documents, including the penal code and other things dealing with compartives, the abbreviated process was typified as being not an actual trial.

I'll look it up again.


Trial is a word which is a synonym for the word test, the person tested is the defendant, but if the defendant is not tested, one cannot speak of a trial.

Yes, here's a piece of what I meant:


The giudizio abbreviato (literally abbreviated proceeding) consists, basically, of a proceeding where the trial phase is absent.

It is the Judge of the Preliminary Hearing who, according to the evidence gathered, during the preliminary investigations by the prosecutor and by the lawyer during the defensive investigations, if there were any, convicts or acquits the defendant.

Since this is a reduction of the defendant's rights (he basically gives up his right to presenting new evidence and to be tried by a Judge of the Trial), it must be he who asks that the Judge of the Preliminary Hearing hand down a judgement over him.

The defendant is rewarded with a reduction on the sentence. The law states that this reduction is one third. If the crime was punishable by life imprisonment, the defendant will be sentenced to thirty years.

Both the defendant and the prosecutor can appeal the judgement before the Court of Appeals


Generally, every criminal proceeding follows the same pattern: there are the preliminary investigations, there is a preliminary hearing, the trial and the appeals. It may occur, though, that one of these phases is not present.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
zorba wrote:
A. Vogt

At one point the judge stopped a line of questioning by Knox’s Rome attorney Carlo Dalla Vedova, who was asking why the RIS described Knox’s DNA as “fluids” when a prior expert had said the trace did not come from blood. Nencini said: That question was not put to the RIS by this court, it was not their job to determine that. The other experts’ reports are in the case files for everyone to read, he noted, adding: “We cannot put words in the mouth of this expert that were said by another expert.”

So Knox's trace is blood.

Or did she sweat or spit on said knife?

It does seem like a logical conclusion. Amusing to see how the defense lawyer also thinks it meant that it was Knox's blood. He really wasn't doing himself any favors. I think this is the easiest explanation for the blood deposit on the top of the water tap (and the mixed blood traces) in the bathroom. I am not necessarily excluding any nose or ear bleedings. It is interesting that the RIS couldn't exclude another female profile in the trace. The same happened for the cotton box trace IIRC. I am not saying that there was another female involved, but that it implies a connection between those traces. Of course we already knew that :)



It is intensely pleasing that this particular judge seems to be sharp-witted and if not sharp-tongued, very articulate, in that he says a few words and those words mean things at 10 different levels, I like that ability, to make others think.

Good point about all of the traces being linked, all as I sense is that this judge doesn't allow anyone to get away with taking liberties at all. He nips it in the bud.


A thing that troubled me, was these in-court exhibitions of the old lawyer guy hugging Knox, her other lawyers hugging and all that, I cannot recall seeing this stuff anywhere else and find it highly inappropriate.
I mean that is also sexualised, because if it had been poor old Patrick, falsely accused stood there, would they have all been hugging him, if it was some guy with a bald head and stubble, would they hug him, but.. I did see Sollecito got his share too, nonetheless I thought lawyers were lawyers, not nervous breakdown counsellors and surrogate parents or whatever.

I'm going to try to remember to look that up a bit, to see if it is usual for lawyers do the hugging routine; these days in institutions, schools and all that, professionals have to be very careful about who they touch.

I feel the hugging served to make an exhibition, to provide sympathy, not from the huggers but from those viewing that show, and that is why I think it is wrong and should not be allowed, it's a court, not a theatre. Oh look what they've (those mean judges, etc.) done to the poor thing and look those others (kind ones = lawyers, cuddlers) are comforting her. Ahhhhhhhh, all say ah. There there. The monster's gone, Oh wait, no, it's you who are the monster. Cuddle the monster.

It is then as though the court of law is being mean (the baddy) but for crying out loud this is a MURDER CASE and it should not be permissible to degrade it to the level of simple, naive emotions/thinking, the court is not bad and the lovely motherly lawyers are not the goodies.

They used all of that acting in their favour as much as they could, it was excruciatingly nauseating to witness the show, Knox played into and up to it and they reacted, on cue too.

Oh look at the poor girl, ah now the comforters hath come.

The court of law hath no heart and the lawyers are such kind people.

I knew it immediately I saw all of it that something was really wrong about it, but couldn't quite put my finger on what the actual effect/result was, and what the result amounts to is to make the judges look like the crooks for being mean to the girl,
look,
she's just a girl with her hair in pig tails, hair in a bun,
why don't they just let her go, look what she is going through,
but again,
dear oh lord,
it's a murder trial.

They tried to reduce it to something else, the image making process was going on not just in the press but in the courtroom.

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Offline Admire


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Not to harp on the hairs question, which in the end is a matter of "if only". If only the bra clasp had been collected promptly, if Curatolo and Quintavalle had been interviewed earlier, if the hairs had been located, it would have been a much stronger case, which the likes of Hellman would not have been able to reject. But the fact remains, that Knox is now in the US, and it will be an extradition battle, the outcome of which is uncertain. There are ten steps to carrying out a request for extradition, and you can bet the Knox forces are prepared to contest that every step (Ironic, that the best outcome for her rest of her life would be for her to be removed from that toxic crew)

But it is this that keeps us engaged: the battle for public opinion. Right now her support in the US is a mile wide (blanket coverage in the media) and an inch thick (most people couldn't give a damn) but it might still become a public relations nightmare when she sends out a call for white knights every where to rescue an American damsel in distress.

That is why the upcoming Angel Face movie is so important. This is why we need to get US media to look at the evidence fairly. That is why the wiki is important, that many journalists and news desks have started to look at the transcripts and trial documents there, who might never come here otherwise. But above all, it is we, who have put so much into this, that must keep Meredith Kercher's cause alive.



I fail to see how we can never, ever win the battle for public opinion. Knox has supporters all over the media and the "America vs. everybody else" thing is influencing it too. I still fear for a possible extradition.

there is a lot of optimism here on .net, on org and on tjfm but I am still a little more careful. None of us saw the appeal decision coming.....I really hope that we will get them.


Nell wrote:
Here is the link to the photo Nigel Scott tweeted that was discussed on .org.

There is no way in telling if this photo was taken when Sollecito visited Meredith's grave.

Image

IIRC someone on .org said Meredith's grave has a marbled gravestone now.


It goes without saying that I would not have visited Meredith's grave had I been in Sollecito's position. What is even worse to me is that he cannot keep it to himself. From now on, every time Meredith's loved ones go to her graveside to remember her, they will now know that her killer has been standing at the exact same spot.

I find this very hurtful. Bad enough that he could not respect the Kerchers wishes, on top of it he had to brag about it. He wants to let them know he was there.


My opinion only: To me it is clear that Amanda Knox felt rejected by Meredith and Knox didn't take it very well. The attack was about humiliation mostly. I have come to the conclusion that Amanda Knox felt at one point humiliated and wanted payback. She is still hurting that she did not emerge as the clear heroine from this court drama, Meredith still steals her the show. Knox's anger and contempt have come to light in her various interviews and imo she is too unintelligent and unfeeling to understand that the Kerchers will never receive her with open arms. They want to be left alone. Knox's approach suggesting they should acknowledge each others pain, grieve and visit Meredith's grave together is a foolproof method to be rejected again, not to talk about the backlash for her public image. Stupid is as stupid does. In my opinion Knox seeks recognition and acceptance.

For Sollecito I think it's more a trophy thing to visit Meredith's grave.

They are both deeply disturbed individuals.


I completely agree. I attempted to play devils advocate with myself and imagined what I would do if I Sollecito and I was innocent, and there would be no way in hell that I would tell anybody about me visiting the grave. Its such an obvious and calculated move for sympathy. He is nervous as hell!
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Slade wrote:
McCall wrote:
The version on .ORG was just something I needed for last night. The version on Twitter is the better version. The immediate need has passed but I'll return to it on Sunday just to have a finished version since this might be something that will come up again. People seem to really have a trouble understanding the trial flow.


Saw the flow chart on .org and noticed Patrick Lumumba's civil trials weren't listed, although AK did testify and sometimes her testimony from those sessions are quoted elsewhere. Would there be any value in including these civil trials, or would that confuse and clutter up the graphics meant to simplify all these judicial proceedings?


It sounds like an industry of legal proceedings has popped up due to the murder of Meredith.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, Admire, and a belated welcome to PMF! Yes, it will indeed be a difficult battle re: public opinion. If one AP release gets sent to 700 news outlets, sure (I like them odds) But really, we know how fickle public opinion can be. I hope the Appeals Court issues a strong verdict, a clear reasoning report and increases their sentence though I am told an increased sentence is unlikely. Still, a clear verdict of guilt, and the US will move on to other things. It now looks though that the final verdict will not even be issued before early 2015, and by that time, it will be "Amanda Who?"
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Offline Admire


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, Admire, and a belated welcome to PMF! Yes, it will indeed be a difficult battle re: public opinion. If one AP release gets sent to 700 news outlets, sure (I like them odds) But really, we know how fickle public opinion can be. I hope the Appeals Court issues a strong verdict, a clear reasoning report and increases their sentence though I am told an increased sentence is unlikely. Still, a clear verdict of guilt, and the US will move on to other things. It now looks though that the final verdict will not even be issued before early 2015, and by that time, it will be "Amanda Who?"



Thanks Ergon. Seen you on True Justice a few times.

I really hope you are right. Peter on true justice seems confident that there won't be a extradition fight but I simply don't believe that.

But I do think that a guilty verdict would mean that she will be extradited at some point. I just hope we learn the entire truth of what happened that night. We know so much, and the guilt of Knox or Sollecito is beyond any doubt in my mind but there are still so many questions that need answering.

Sometimes I think that some of her supporters must know. They simply can't be this stupid.

This is from a debate I had earlier in the evening: "Yet the prosecutor can't use the knife as definitive evidence. Since this is a retrial the case isn't over. The jury is still out.
There isn't a DNA test for "biological fluids". A DNA tests for DNA. You could also look for a blood type etc but a DNA test can't tell between blood or skin with such a poor starting sample.
We don't know if Meredith's DNA was on the blade. The fact that the test can't find the DNA again strongly suggests the DNA was never there.
Meredith doesn't have to go to Sollecito's place. Knifes and other kitchen things have a tendency to move from place to place among people who are close and who cook for each other"

And later "The knife showed positive for Meredith's DNA only once. It was not found on repeated tests. The prosecution will have difficulty showing this as anything other than contamination.
The test you're referring to only shows the presence of oxidizers. Which can be some vegetables or even animal blood. The test is extremely sensitive. If the knife were to be used to cut meat, then washed, then tested it would likely show the presence of the blood from the animal meat.
Contamination still can't be ruled out. The only way to do that is to repeat the DNA test. However as we know that hasn't shown anything. "


There is NO way they can be this deluded and gullible.....The person clearly doesn't get DNA tests(Can't find the DNA again...Seriously?)
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So ... how many people have court hearings due to this murder in the future?

If it's not an industry, how many lawyers are benefitting and why?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So ... regarding lawyer participation in Meredith Kercher's murder ... how many people have court hearings due to this murder in the future?

If it's not an industry, how many lawyers are benefitting and why?
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
So ... how many people have court hearings due to this murder in the future?

If it's not an industry, how many lawyers are benefitting and why?



Hi, well, in relation to.. this murder, indeed Patrick Lumumba is still proceeding with hearings related to the damages he suffered resulting from Amanda Knox's lies about him.

Then there are the Sollecito family members, not sure what the status is on that right now.

There are proceedings, I thought, against Knox family members for defamation, but Ergon and/or Michael will have the precise details.

There is OGGI, for libel, I thought.

There is Sfarzo for libel or was it calumnia.

I cannot remember what happened about the TV channel that screened Meredith lying dead on the floor in a pool of blood, courtesy of the Sollecito family, I think the TV firm should have been fined 1 million euros for doing that, it would put other creeps like them from doing it in the future, and whoever handed the material to the TV, should also either be fined very heavily, or be given a jail term, since the acts were atrociously wicked towards the memory of Meredith and disrespectful and entirely insensitive to the feelings of her family.

This slap on the wrist stuff won't do.

Note: in relation to proceedings:
a) If the prosecution (and the defendant) call for an appeal, then the sentence can be increased.
b) If only the defendant calls for an appeal, the sentence cannot be increased.

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Last edited by zorba on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, Admire, and a belated welcome to PMF! Yes, it will indeed be a difficult battle re: public opinion. If one AP release gets sent to 700 news outlets, sure (I like them odds) But really, we know how fickle public opinion can be. I hope the Appeals Court issues a strong verdict, a clear reasoning report and increases their sentence though I am told an increased sentence is unlikely. Still, a clear verdict of guilt, and the US will move on to other things. It now looks though that the final verdict will not even be issued before early 2015, and by that time, it will be "Amanda Who?"

I am a bit disappointed with the schedule to be honest. One a day? Is that really necessary. That will be half day sessions. Then a few weeks off after the prosecution for what? Christmas and New Years I understand. Another year till the SC confirms? Gosh, I hope not.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
So ... how many people have court hearings due to this murder in the future?

If it's not an industry, how many lawyers are benefitting and why?



Hi, well, in relation to.. this murder, indeed Patrick Lumumba is still proceeding with hearings related to the damages he suffered resulting from Amanda Knox's lies about him.

Then there are the Sollecito family members, not sure what the status is on that right now.

There are proceedings, I thought, against Knox family members for defamation, but Ergon and/or Michael will have the precise details.

There is OGGI, for libel, I thought.

There is Sfarzo for libel or was it calumnia.

I cannot remember what happened about the TV channel that screened Meredith lying dead on the floor in a pool of blood, courtesy of the Sollecito family, I think the TV firm should have been fined 1 million euros for doing that, it would put other creeps like them from doing it in the future, and whoever handed the material to the TV, should also either be fined very heavily, or be given a jail term, since the acts were atrociously wicked towards the memory of Meredith and disrespectful and entirely insensitive to the feelings of her family.

This slap on the wrist stuff won't do.

Note: in relation to proceedings:
a) If the prosecution (and the defendant) call for an appeal, then the sentence can be increased.
b) If only the defendant calls for an appeal, the sentence cannot be increased.


It's really mind-boggling to consider the number of lawyers involved, especially if you throw in what may come from the book writings also. And yet, no cases of which I am aware, against the puppet masters, the PR firm.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

@max, most of the deliberations are taking place behind closed doors. Summations and closing arguments can be quite brief in Italy, as I discovered when I sat through the proceedings in Rome. The 'half day' for each party seems about right. Then, given the time frames for filing reports/appeals, early 2015 becomes increasingly likely. Hellmann 'acquittal' Oct 03, 2011, Supreme Court Annulment March 26, 2013 gives indication of a reasonable time frame.

@zorba, thanks for looking it up. As the defendants requested this appeal, no increase in sentence, got it.

@Admire, the outcome of the trial appears to be straight forward, but who knows? If you feel the need to be cautious, that's great. People get emotionally involved, then disappointed when things don't work out the way it 'should have'. We all wish the best for the Kerchers, and closure. But if this case brings out the best in us, and we just do what we can, that is more, than most people do in their lives.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
@max, most of the deliberations are taking place behind closed doors. Summations and closing arguments can be quite brief in Italy, as I discovered when I sat through the proceedings in Rome. The 'half day' for each party seems about right. Then, given the time frames for filing reports/appeals, early 2015 becomes increasingly likely. Hellmann 'acquittal' Oct 03, 2011, Supreme Court Annulment March 26, 2013 gives indication of a reasonable time frame.

@zorba, thanks for looking it up. As the defendants requested this appeal, no increase in sentence, got it.

@Admire, the outcome of the trial appears to be straight forward, but who knows? If you feel the need to be cautious, that's great. People get emotionally involved, then disappointed when things don't work out the way it 'should have'. We all wish the best for the Kerchers, and closure. But if this case brings out the best in us, and we just do what we can, that is more, than most people do in their lives.


Yes as long as that what they received is dished out/stuck to, then it is better than nothing though they should have received life sentences and only been eligible for parole if and when they had admit guilt and show sincere remorse, I think anyhow.

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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Slade wrote:
McCall wrote:
The version on .ORG was just something I needed for last night. The version on Twitter is the better version. The immediate need has passed but I'll return to it on Sunday just to have a finished version since this might be something that will come up again. People seem to really have a trouble understanding the trial flow.


Saw the flow chart on .org and noticed Patrick Lumumba's civil trials weren't listed, although AK did testify and sometimes her testimony from those sessions are quoted elsewhere. Would there be any value in including these civil trials, or would that confuse and clutter up the graphics meant to simplify all these judicial proceedings?


It sounds like an industry of legal proceedings has popped up due to the murder of Meredith.


There does seem to be a 'cottage industry' of legal proceedings surrounding Meredith's case. Sad that Meredith Kercher's name will be linked with this sordid mess for all time.

If only AK's biological parents had been people of good character and told their daughter to tell the truth and ask for mercy, all of this would have been avoided. That's the lesson for parents sending their children for study abroad: tell them, first, be careful, don't harm others, but if you do commit a crime, own up to it. If our sons and daughters are mature enough to travel abroad alone, then they're mature enough to own their actions. beer-)
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Media baits US & Italy for war over AK extradition!   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, Admire, and a belated welcome to PMF! Yes, it will indeed be a difficult battle re: public opinion. If one AP release gets sent to 700 news outlets, sure (I like them odds) But really, we know how fickle public opinion can be. I hope the Appeals Court issues a strong verdict, a clear reasoning report and increases their sentence though I am told an increased sentence is unlikely. Still, a clear verdict of guilt, and the US will move on to other things. It now looks though that the final verdict will not even be issued before early 2015, and by that time, it will be "Amanda Who?"


News media consumers are easily led about by the nose -- Meredith's case certainly confirms that! With hope, those same low-information rubes can be influenced to believe the opposite with little effort. A verdict issued in an Italian courtroom won't be enough for Americans; they require a strong local voice to lay out the case of guilt as simply as possible. stup-)

This entire 'AK is innocent international scam' must be deliberate on the media's part, clearly with no regard whatsoever to the truth. The scheming media are 'setting up' a big confrontation between US State and Justice Depts. versus Italian Justice system and government. Wow, won't that be a big story! co-)

Even with a Cassation ruling as late as early 2015, a cooperating media will keep AK's story alive with the goal of ginning up the masses. Can just imagine future AK story lines of: 1) AK gets married -- perhaps with ABC News filming and contributing towards an elaborate wedding. 2) AK is pregnant! Smiling AK announces she and new husband have happy news! 3) AK writes follow-up to WTBH, "My Life Now" with subtitle: I will never return to Italy! nw)

Most of the media are reprehensible lying maggots! nnn-))
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

No new donations have been recorded in the gofundme account since Sollecito's appearance in Court.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Filming about to begin
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... l#comments
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
No new donations have been recorded in the gofundme account since Sollecito's appearance in Court.


I see, well, just by chance I happened to be having my annual clean up, that's a day when I get the vacuum cleaner out, I put my hair in curlers and one of those scarves on top and though I don't smoke I stick a cigarette between my lips, if I was a real 1960s skivvy or worn out housewife, the cigarettes would get a long long ash on them, it'd be like a sport to see how long it would go before finally breaking off and making even more mess but as mine was to be unlit the effect looked almost the same, you had to use your imagination, so there I went, today, vacuumer behind me, a-trailing, it doesn't work but I do the sounds myself and it helps as a kind of annual head clear out too, just vibrate all of the modern life neuroses clean away, brrrr brrrr brrr, I'm sure the neighbours cannot even spot the difference, I won't explain all about how it almost overheated from overwork, the bag already an hour ago filled to breaking point, on I plodded, I went round and round in circles and it all looked the same, much like Knox and Sollecito's spinning tales, but let's not ruin this. So anyhow, what a pot of luck, for Sollecito, I cleared a shelf away when it rained old Italian lira, 300 I think in expired currency much like his credibility, so I'll be sending him those as I did before when I found the leftover change from a holiday 25 years back, this batch... I mean the stamps will cost me more that the value of coinage, however, everyone knows it's the thought that counts.

I so hope you enjoy my short tale.

If anyone after reading this has been affected by any of the issues (OCD, etc.), call 075948381566 (calls are free) and speak to a counsellor.

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

HaPpY bIrThDaY sHeRrEl
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Offline sherrel


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
HaPpY bIrThDaY sHeRrEl

Thanks Chami. Although, at my age, I try not to think about it.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi Sherrel and Happy Day of Birth revisited, if you can remember it, so yes don't think about age think about the joyous occasion a person's birth is.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:



I disagree with the entire idea of making a movie, I disagree just as many others appear to be doing.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Hi, Admire, and a belated welcome to PMF! Yes, it will indeed be a difficult battle re: public opinion. If one AP release gets sent to 700 news outlets, sure (I like them odds) But really, we know how fickle public opinion can be. I hope the Appeals Court issues a strong verdict, a clear reasoning report and increases their sentence though I am told an increased sentence is unlikely. Still, a clear verdict of guilt, and the US will move on to other things. It now looks though that the final verdict will not even be issued before early 2015, and by that time, it will be "Amanda Who?"

I am a bit disappointed with the schedule to be honest. One a day? Is that really necessary. That will be half day sessions. Then a few weeks off after the prosecution for what? Christmas and New Years I understand. Another year till the SC confirms? Gosh, I hope not.



On schedules or length of time cases can take, I think it is too long.

I'm guessing the administrative backlog is so large that they cannot take care of things faster, rather than being an issue related to the time needed to examine matters before being able to get into a courthouse.

But on the other hand, it's thorough, and, a new court, such as this, a new set of judges, etc, would have needed time to study what all of the events and evidence mean and if you try to rush that, then you there is potential for a type of injustice since in the case of insufficient time those judging would then be unable to make or arrive at fully informed judgments.

In terms of comparative law: it is not realistic for critics of Italian law to present Italy as a country unique in the difficulties involved with time length of the entire procedure: preliminary hearing right through to the final ruling in the Supreme Court.

Main criticism in relation to this particular case (the murder of Meredith)) coming from a few Americans beating the flames of misinformation, always carefully forgetting to note how in America there are persons still waiting on appeals, still putting in appeals after 30 years on death row, accordingly:

Remove the log from your own eye first, so that you are better able to help remove the splinter from the other person's eye.

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Last edited by zorba on Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Happy birthday, Sherrel! You were with ABC? Saw your comment expressing sympathy for journalists and the pressures they go through. Sad to think people used to trust them once, but, I do understand. I love the TV show Newsroom with Jeff Daniels, but it rainbow fantasy of what journalism ought to be.
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

@Sherrel, Please do not think about it! I am fond of celebrating unbirthdays!

Life itself is a celebration. Everyday. Make it worth living.
(this is not an advertisement!)
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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Eulonda Skyles has written an absolutely brilliant article about the alleged role of trade secret forensic evidence in the case:

http://blogs.orrick.com/trade-secrets-w ... rder-case/
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks, The Machine. I sent it around by Twitter. Pity that a freelance journalist (Andrea Vogt) has to go to so much trouble to get to the bottom of Hampikian's interference with the appeal, questions that the MSM, with the greater resources, should be demanding?
"Trade secrets", my ass. Hampikian posted his coke can experiment all over the Net. The methods used are not his own, and BSU just wants to hide its use of state funds to assist Amanda Knox, who isn't even an Idaho resident or was convicted there. Hampikian has a lot of things to answer for, and so does his employer.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Machine wrote:
Eulonda Skyles has written an absolutely brilliant article about the alleged role of trade secret forensic evidence in the case:

http://blogs.orrick.com/trade-secrets-w ... rder-case/


I just read the article after seeing it posted on Twitter. it is excellent.

What is most troubling in my opinion is that neither Boise State University nor Greg Hampikian categorically deny to have been in contact with the judges or independent experts.

There is no research, in progress or otherwise, that needs to be protected, it is the collaboration with the independent experts Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti that they are trying to hide.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

sherrel wrote:
chami wrote:
HaPpY bIrThDaY sHeRrEl

Thanks Chami. Although, at my age, I try not to think about it.


Happy Birthday from me too Sherrel!
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
So ... how many people have court hearings due to this murder in the future?

If it's not an industry, how many lawyers are benefitting and why?


So right on, Jester!!
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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Thanks, The Machine. I sent it around by Twitter. Pity that a freelance journalist (Andrea Vogt) has to go to so much trouble to get to the bottom of Hampikian's interference with the appeal, questions that the MSM, with the greater resources, should be demanding?
"Trade secrets", my ass. Hampikian posted his coke can experiment all over the Net. The methods used are not his own, and BSU just wants to hide its use of state funds to assist Amanda Knox, who isn't even an Idaho resident or was convicted there. Hampikian has a lot of things to answer for, and so does his employer.


Its interesting that you highlight how Amanda Knox has nothing to do with BSU or Idaho for that matter. Perhaps the university and Hampikian were hoping to benefit from the publicity surrounding the case. Why else use their funds for such an irrelevant matter? It makes me wonder how concerned Hampikian and/or BSU would be, if the case was not a media interest?

I assume their plan backfired seeing as I read somewhere they have had a cut in funding...
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
The Machine wrote:
Eulonda Skyles has written an absolutely brilliant article about the alleged role of trade secret forensic evidence in the case:

http://blogs.orrick.com/trade-secrets-w ... rder-case/


I just read the article after seeing it posted on Twitter. it is excellent.

What is most troubling in my opinion is that neither Boise State University nor Greg Hampikian categorically deny to have been in contact with the judges or independent experts.

There is no research, in progress or otherwise, that needs to be protected, it is the collaboration with the independent experts Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti that they are trying to hide.



Surely if it can be shown that he had contact with Hellmann or V&C, that contact would be something highly illegal since the two experts were supposed to be experts hired in to provide their opinion through their analysis, not to provide the court with the opinion of a Knox main supporter.

There must be records, somewhere/somehow of calls from Mr Ham.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi All,

Thanks so much for your birthday wishes. I appreciate that. I saw a quote the other day that said:

"Do not regret getting older. It's a privilege denied to many."


In reply to Ergon:

I worked for ABC from March of 1968 through January of 1989, with a short hiatus in the middle. I was an engineer working behind the cameras and mics. I worked with a lot of news journalists then, and I had a lot of respect for them. But it seems as though they were part of the "old school", not exactly what I'm seeing lately. Many journalists today are simply people who have learned how to type. Many have no concept of ethics, and many are very poor in grammar.


I would now like to retract an earlier post:

It was not Elizabeth Vargas that I had worked with years ago, but rather Lisa Stark. I guess after nearly 25 years, my memory has failed me. My apologies if I have misled anyone.
oop-)

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Offline Aranavachi


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
No new donations have been recorded in the gofundme account since Sollecito's appearance in Court.


Hi Napia,

I also check the fund page from time to time to see how its going, from there I can judge just how interested people are in this case. When it comes to tweeting and typing and passing time - there are quite a few crazed ones. When it comes to parting with hard earned cash, not so many after all! So when I read that people think extradition will result in a public outcry, with the results of this fundraiser in mind, I firmly believe not that many people give a damn. As of the moment only 228 people have put their money where their mouth is...only about half of them have gone further to put their names to their belief. That says a lot to me.

I believe that looking at the visible evidence in the cottage alone, disregarding further DNA evidence, witnesses and confessions etc it is only logical to conclude Amanda Knox or another roommate was responsible. The others had solid alibis.

Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

Giselle
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Aranavachi wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Thanks, The Machine. I sent it around by Twitter. Pity that a freelance journalist (Andrea Vogt) has to go to so much trouble to get to the bottom of Hampikian's interference with the appeal, questions that the MSM, with the greater resources, should be demanding?
"Trade secrets", my ass. Hampikian posted his coke can experiment all over the Net. The methods used are not his own, and BSU just wants to hide its use of state funds to assist Amanda Knox, who isn't even an Idaho resident or was convicted there. Hampikian has a lot of things to answer for, and so does his employer.


Its interesting that you highlight how Amanda Knox has nothing to do with BSU or Idaho for that matter. Perhaps the university and Hampikian were hoping to benefit from the publicity surrounding the case. Why else use their funds for such an irrelevant matter? It makes me wonder how concerned Hampikian and/or BSU would be, if the case was not a media interest?

I assume their plan backfired seeing as I read somewhere they have had a cut in funding...


I posted their mission statement a while back, to defend Idaho residents or incarcerated in Idaho. I also noted the curious fact of UW school of law also having an innocence project and why they never got involved. Questions the Idaho state attorney ought to look into, the whole case clearly is a misuse of state funds.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

And now, the Idaho Innocence Project has lost its funding, as reported by Jools @ORG. Mysterious ways, wonders... :-)
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Offline KingSlayer


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I wonder why the Idaho Innocence Project received federal money in the first place. Probably not a whole lot of wrongful convictions in a small state like that.
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Offline KingSlayer


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Admire wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Not to harp on the hairs question, which in the end is a matter of "if only". If only the bra clasp had been collected promptly, if Curatolo and Quintavalle had been interviewed earlier, if the hairs had been located, it would have been a much stronger case, which the likes of Hellman would not have been able to reject. But the fact remains, that Knox is now in the US, and it will be an extradition battle, the outcome of which is uncertain. There are ten steps to carrying out a request for extradition, and you can bet the Knox forces are prepared to contest that every step (Ironic, that the best outcome for her rest of her life would be for her to be removed from that toxic crew)

But it is this that keeps us engaged: the battle for public opinion. Right now her support in the US is a mile wide (blanket coverage in the media) and an inch thick (most people couldn't give a damn) but it might still become a public relations nightmare when she sends out a call for white knights every where to rescue an American damsel in distress.

That is why the upcoming Angel Face movie is so important. This is why we need to get US media to look at the evidence fairly. That is why the wiki is important, that many journalists and news desks have started to look at the transcripts and trial documents there, who might never come here otherwise. But above all, it is we, who have put so much into this, that must keep Meredith Kercher's cause alive.



I fail to see how we can never, ever win the battle for public opinion. Knox has supporters all over the media and the "America vs. everybody else" thing is influencing it too. I still fear for a possible extradition.

there is a lot of optimism here on .net, on org and on tjfm but I am still a little more careful. None of us saw the appeal decision coming.....I really hope that we will get them.


I don't think most Americans have followed the Knox case or care about it. Even if 100 percent of those that have followed the case think Knox is innocent, it would not be enough for our government to block extradition.

I think it could only be blocked if there was some kind of political angle to the case which there isn't.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Great to see you back, Cape!!!!! How's the grandkids? Sorry to hear about the foot, I hope that hets better for you soon.

A belated Happy Birthday to you Sherrel!!! :) :) :)

Finally, a warm welcome to new posters Admire and KingSlayer!!! :) :) :)

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

KingSlayer wrote:
I don't think most Americans have followed the Knox case or care about it. Even if 100 percent of those that have followed the case think Knox is innocent, it would not be enough for our government to block extradition.

I think it could only be blocked if there was some kind of political angle to the case which there isn't.



This actually fully echoes my opinion on the whole matter of extradition. I believe there is no chance at all of it being blocked without a political angle as you suggest. The thing is, the Knox Gang have tried their best to make this political ("it's just because she's American", etc) but they've failed in that utterly. Part of their problem, is that they've been working to accuse the Italians of all things...that they're just incompetent Keystone Cops, that they are corrupt, that they are obsessed with Satanism, etc,. By using a scattergun approach, they've never honed one clear direct angle. Instead, their approach has been a clumsy hodgepodge and that will never work.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
By using a scattergun approach

, they've never honed one clear direct angle.


bolded, very nicely put

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox sets up memorial site for victim

11/07/2013



TEK JOURNALISM UK

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

From that idiot, Michelle Moore: http://michellesings.wordpress.com/2013 ... efame-you/

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

have to pass on that last one

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

There is an excellent new article written by pat az on truejustice.org: The Crime-Scene Clean-Up: How Rudy Guede’s Diary Provides Even More Proof That It Happened
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Reply to someone who once again states that Meredith (and Rudy Guede) were seen in the CCTV images from the parking garage. Wants me to debate him and his posse on JREF, LOL.
"In your mind, perhaps, Amanda Knox is both innocent, and, my 'prey'. I don't think argument in these forums does anything to change inevitable verdicts, and the only reason I even bother replying to you here is to counter your propaganda. And, not to open up the gates to the sort of nitwittery I see every day in your forums, but the CCTV images you claim to be Meredith, and Rudy Guede, aren't. You assume it to be so, but they don't even show faces.
There are several approaches to the cottage, and Meredith came down the stairs alongside the basketball court, and not from the garage. That's why they (the CCTV cameras) didn't show either Meredith or the perps that night. But then, what would I know compared to the er, geniuses of JREF? I only went to Perugia and took several photographs and wrote about my beliefs."

The natural approach to the cottage along the route Meredith took that night is the walkway along the basketball court, from Via Della Pergola. IMHO.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
There is an excellent new article written by pat az on truejustice.org: The Crime-Scene Clean-Up: How Rudy Guede’s Diary Provides Even More Proof That It Happened



I too always thought there is a possibility the fighting started in the hall.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

There was a short segment on Raffaele Sollecito's appearance in court in last Friday's (Nov. 8) episode of Quarto Grado:

VIDEO MEDIASET

Raffaele Sollecito in the courtroom in Florence

The footage is shown of Raffaele Sollecito before the judges of the Court of Appeal of Florence, who are trying him for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Sollecito says he was always a good boy from a good family, who has been involved in an affair that destroyed his life at the age of just twenty years. Once again reiterates his innocence and at the end of the deposition is moved [to tears].


Attachment:
Sollecito in the courtroom, Nov 6, 2013.jpg


[Anyone notice a slight smile on Sollecito's lips when he says: "I'm not a ruthless murderer"?]

The Court of Appeal of Florence, with regard to Sollecito, should focus in particular on three elements of conflicting evidence: the trace of a bloody foot, attributed at first to the engineer from Puglia, which is then found to be inconsistent with the Sollecito's footprint, the bra clasp of Meredith on which there appeared to be traces of the DNA of Raffaele, the kitchen knife found in Raffaele's house and that was considered compatible with the murder weapon.


It seems to me that Quarto Grado's reporting in skewed in favor of Sollecito [see underlined passages above], probably in exchange for "exclusive" information from the Family. (ETA: I found it a bit suspicious that Quatro Grado's host, Gianluigi Nuzzi, was the first to know (and tweet) about Sollecito's arrival at the Florence airport. Clearly, he had a source either inside, or close to the Sollecito Family.) Remo Croci was reporting directly from Giovinazzo.

Sollecito's "foot defect"

Attachment:
Sollecito's footprint, Quarto Grado Nov 8, 2013.jpg


In the courts of Florence, Raffaele reiterated that he had never met Rudy Guede and Meredith had known very little, and so could not have reasons for desiring her death. Sollecito has returned to his father's house in Giovinazzo; Sollecito claims to be calm and is waiting for the verdict, expected on January 10.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Film is not about Amanda Knox, and is not a whodunnit, says Kate Beckinsale
By Tom Kington
Friday 8 November 2013 20.20 GMT

Over a cup of tea in Rome on Friday, Kate Beckinsale was describing how her next film is about a young American girl jailed in a medieval Italian town for the murder of a British student, and she was insisting that it is not about Amanda Knox. "That case is peripheral," said the British actor, who is best known for her role as Selene, the gun-toting vampire in the Underworld series of films. "This is not a whodunnit."

Beckinsale was in Rome to research her role as a journalist in The Face of an Angel, also starring Daniel Bruhl and Cara Delevingne, which starts filming in the Italian capital and Siena next week and is directed by Michael Winterbottom. She will play a character based on American CNN reporter Barbie Latza Nadeau,..


THE GUARDIAN

First day of filming:

When in Rome...: Kate Beckinsale begins filming for new role as a journalist in Amanda Knox film
11 November 2013

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
The Machine wrote:
Eulonda Skyles has written an absolutely brilliant article about the alleged role of trade secret forensic evidence in the case:

http://blogs.orrick.com/trade-secrets-w ... rder-case/


I just read the article after seeing it posted on Twitter. it is excellent.

What is most troubling in my opinion is that neither Boise State University nor Greg Hampikian categorically deny to have been in contact with the judges or independent experts.

There is no research, in progress or otherwise, that needs to be protected, it is the collaboration with the independent experts Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti that they are trying to hide.



Surely if it can be shown that he had contact with Hellmann or V&C, that contact would be something highly illegal since the two experts were supposed to be experts hired in to provide their opinion through their analysis, not to provide the court with the opinion of a Knox main supporter.

There must be records, somewhere/somehow of calls from Mr Ham.


If Hamkipian had had no contact with V&C, he would have responded to a freedom of information request by stating that there had been no contact between him and the court appointed experts. The fact that he has relied on "state secret" laws to avoid responding to the request leaves no alternative but to conclude that he did correspond with the experts and that he does not want anyone to know about the nature of that correspondence.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
The Machine wrote:
Eulonda Skyles has written an absolutely brilliant article about the alleged role of trade secret forensic evidence in the case:

http://blogs.orrick.com/trade-secrets-w ... rder-case/


I just read the article after seeing it posted on Twitter. it is excellent.

What is most troubling in my opinion is that neither Boise State University nor Greg Hampikian categorically deny to have been in contact with the judges or independent experts.

There is no research, in progress or otherwise, that needs to be protected, it is the collaboration with the independent experts Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti that they are trying to hide.



Surely if it can be shown that he had contact with Hellmann or V&C, that contact would be something highly illegal since the two experts were supposed to be experts hired in to provide their opinion through their analysis, not to provide the court with the opinion of a Knox main supporter.

There must be records, somewhere/somehow of calls from Mr Ham.


If Hamkipian had had no contact with V&C, he would have responded to a freedom of information request by stating that there had been no contact between him and the court appointed experts. The fact that he has relied on "state secret" laws to avoid responding to the request leaves no alternative but to conclude that he did correspond with the experts and that he does not want anyone to know about the nature of that correspondence.


That is my interpretation too. The natural reaction to Andrea Vogt's request would have been to at least deny there was any contact between him and the independent experts.

His involvement should be investigated.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
There was a short segment on Raffaele Sollecito's appearance in court in last Friday's (Nov. 8) episode of Quarto Grado:

VIDEO MEDIASET

Raffaele Sollecito in the courtroom in Florence

The footage is shown of Raffaele Sollecito before the judges of the Court of Appeal of Florence, who are trying him for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Sollecito says he was always a good boy from a good family, who has been involved in an affair that destroyed his life at the age of just twenty years. Once again reiterates his innocence and at the end of the deposition is moved [to tears].


Attachment:
Sollecito in the courtroom, Nov 6, 2013.jpg


[Anyone notice a slight smile on Sollecito's lips when he says: "I'm not a ruthless murderer"?]

The Court of Appeal of Florence, with regard to Sollecito, should focus in particular on three elements of conflicting evidence: the trace of a bloody foot, attributed at first to the engineer from Puglia, which is then found to be inconsistent with the Sollecito's footprint, the bra clasp of Meredith on which there appeared to be traces of the DNA of Raffaele, the kitchen knife found in Raffaele's house and that was considered compatible with the murder weapon.


It seems to me that Quarto Grado's reporting in skewed in favor of Sollecito [see underlined passages above], probably in exchange for "exclusive" information from the Family. Remo Croci is reporting directly from Giovinazzo.

Sollecito's "foot defect"

Attachment:
Sollecito's footprint, Quarto Grado Nov 8, 2013.jpg


In the courts of Florence, Raphael reiterated that he had never met Rudy Guede and Meredith had known very little, and so could not have reasons for desiring her death. Sollecito has returned to his father's house in Giovinazzo; Sollecito claims to be calm and is waiting for the verdict, expected on January 10.


CRIMEBLOG


Thanks for having mercy and not including the photo of his ugly feet. The photo confirms that the theory his defence presented in court that one of his toes does not make contact with the floor is rubbish.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
If Hamkipian had had no contact with V&C, he would have responded to a freedom of information request by stating that there had been no contact between him and the court appointed experts. The fact that he has relied on "state secret" laws to avoid responding to the request leaves no alternative but to conclude that he did correspond with the experts and that he does not want anyone to know about the nature of that correspondence.


That is my interpretation too. The natural reaction to Andrea Vogt's request would have been to at least deny there was any contact between him and the independent experts.

His involvement should be investigated.


Absolutely. Additionally, his funding was cut for a reason. We may not know about his correspondence with the court appointed experts, but I'm sure that someone reviewed his correspondence before it could be declared that his communication falls under the category of "state secrets". I get the impression that more people are concerned about his interference in the murder investigation, and that no one from the University wants the facts known.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
If Hamkipian had had no contact with V&C, he would have responded to a freedom of information request by stating that there had been no contact between him and the court appointed experts. The fact that he has relied on "state secret" laws to avoid responding to the request leaves no alternative but to conclude that he did correspond with the experts and that he does not want anyone to know about the nature of that correspondence.


That is my interpretation too. The natural reaction to Andrea Vogt's request would have been to at least deny there was any contact between him and the independent experts.

His involvement should be investigated.


Absolutely. Additionally, his funding was cut for a reason. We may not know about his correspondence with the court appointed experts, but I'm sure that someone reviewed his correspondence before it could be declared that his communication falls under the category of "state secrets". I get the impression that more people are concerned about his interference in the murder investigation, and that no one from the University wants the facts known.



And I do not know what others think about the tidy sum of 220,000 dollars but it sure ain't peanuts, a nice amount to get handed to you, it seems clear now why he got involved, in his case not having to do truly with Knox but with trying to be seen as credible by those providing such huge amounts in funding. One may imagine him then paying his own way but I bet his trip or was it trips, to Italy were not paid for by him, each shark must have taken care of an own deal, every single time, with every single news agency interested and that would mean the ones already in Marriot's pocket.

After seeing how lousy the level of reporting is from ABC, I am ever-shocked, each & every time late at night, when the BBC is suddenly taken over for 15 or 30 minutes by ABC NEWS, the thing is, in Britain everyone who wants to watch TV must pay for a TV licence, regardless of whether you try to say but I hate the BBC and never watch it and only want to watch the others, it doesn't work, you have no right to just watch the others in Britain, even if you really do not watch them and are not kidding; in Britain you must still pay the licence fee, yet the reason the BBC has this position (where that licence fee money goes to them) is due to them being the first broadcasting company in the world and traditionally had no advertising, and though on BBC TV there are no commercial breaks as was always the case, the rest is now like everything else, which means it is accompanied by advertising (their online presence for instance) and what ABC is doing on there like some boy scout on an away week in another country welcomed around the camp fire of another scout pack, all looking at his different uniform with big eyes I cannot understand.

I think it is really wrong, see that's what happens in the UK, nowhere else, that special relationship, it's the shared language, etc, that bond is always there with countries who share English as the first language but with America, many are always in awe of America, so watching ABC news they probably slide into a John Wayne watching movie mode on a lazy Sunday afternoon, numbing and dumbing down, let's think of nothing because entertainment is that, it's like an opium, relax, it's like ABC is like the American cousin the family never get to see and that atmosphere (and as I edit this the devil pops up on TV, yes ABC, it's 2.53 AM), like I mean I haven't seen anyone asking anyone else in Britain whether they want the BBC to be taken over on occasion by ABC, it's distasteful considering the way ABC has shown some of the worst levels of journalism ever in this case, as far as I can see they stand for nothing good, they have encouraged the scaremongering where people like Moore get to pretend the world is a place that Americans should fear since America is good and right and righteous and the rest is dark and dangerous, this is incredible how people like that have been getting to do this stuff and it is something that the high n mighty smug BBC, smug certainly if it pretends to be so righteous, when it allows ABC in, which is anything but righteous, here righteous would imply an entity that upholds proper and sound ethics AND CANNOT BE BOUGHT UP.
Seems like ABC buys people; what is an ABC newscaster/journalist doing babysitting the children of a man whose daughter is appearing in court on murder charges, is that proper conduct?

It's ALL in the Family taken to a different height of dysfunctional life, dad looks like Archie only dad looks far angrier, if he had any right to appear that way, what would that translate to as regards Mr Kercher, wouldn't he have the right then to go about punching people on the nose, sad thing is Knox's dad doesn't see how bad he comes across, with his I have a right to be aggressive, sure man and your daughter is up on murder charges, all in the family? or it runs in the family? Aggression I mean...

No the man could have showed a different attitude, and still fought for what he perceived to be his justice, yet everything he and the rest of Knox's family did, seems to tell a different story, one of forcing issues and intimidating people, if this wasn't true someone in that family would have apologised for those using their names to be really cruel towards Meredith's family online, and if Knox and Sollecito cared, they'd have said that they distance themselves from such comments, but they lap it up, and they encourage it, because it is their own behaviour that has inspired it to begin with, generating clones of themselves, heartless and self-centred.

The above link from Guermantes shows Sollecito basically putting on his special act, yet his face is smothered in that contrived look, as look at poor me, his argumentation is void since saying that he would have no reason to kill Meredith holds no ground, yes because fact is people are killed every day for no reason at all, and even when there ARE reasons they are often so stupid, Knox said it herself and I believe her, it was stupid, yes, I think she said that because she meant in her head at least talking in secret to herself she was thinking that it was stupid, only she does not reveal what she means, she just said it was stupid, however behind that, thoughts were spinning around in her head, and I believe she did think it stupid because it WAS stupid, meaning the reasons she got uptight at Meredith about were stupid/trivial, and then it turned out the way it did.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:

And I do not know what others think about the tidy sum of 220,000 dollars but it sure ain't peanuts, a nice amount to get handed to you, it seems clear now why he got involved, in his case not having to do truly with Knox but with trying to be seen as credible by those providing such huge amounts in funding. One may imagine him then paying his own way but I bet his trip or was it trips, to Italy were not paid for by him, each shark must have taken care of an own deal, every single time, with every single news agency interested and that would mean the ones already in Marriot's pocket.

After seeing how lousy the level of reporting is from ABC, I am ever-shocked each time late at night, the BBC is suddenly taken ober for 15 or 30 minutes by ABC, the thing is, in Britain everyone who wants to watch TV must pay for a TV licence, regardless of whether you try to say but I hate the BBC and never watch t and only want to watch the others, it doesn't work, you have no right to just watch the others in Britain, even if you do not watch them and then really do not watch them and no kidding, in Britain you must still pay the licence fee, yet the BBC has this position as it was the first broadcasting company in the world and traditionally had no advertising, and though on TV there are no commercial breaks as was always the case, the test is now like everything else, which means accompanied by advertising, and what ABC is doing on there like some boy scout on an away week in another country welcomed around the camp fire of another scout pack, all looking at his different uniform with big eyes.

I think it is really wrong, see that's what happens in the UK, nowhere else, that special relationship, it's the shared language, etc, that bond is always there with countries who share English as the first language but with America, many are always in awe of America, so watching ABC news they probably slide into watching a John Wayne watching movie mode on a lazy Sunday afternoon, it's like ABC is like the American cousin the family never get to see and that atmosphere, like I mean I haven't seen anyone asking anyone else in Britain whether they want the BBC to be taken over on occasion by ABC, it's distasteful considering the way ABC has shown some of the worst levels of journalism ever in this case, as far as I can see they stand for northing, they have encouraged the scaremongering where people like Moore get to pretend the world is a place that Americans should fear since America is good and right and righteous and therest is dark and dangerous, this is incredible how people like that have been getting to do this stuff.


Since we're discussing TV disruption, I have to say that my biggest disappointment with modern television is the freaks that present news and opinions. The mutated faces of women are especially disturbing. Their lips are puckered like a whinnying horse, their ears have been rearranged to sit at a 45 degree tilt, their eyes appear to be propped open by strings attached to the back of their scalp. It's like accidentally walking into the freak show tent at the circus.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:

And I do not know what others think about the tidy sum of 220,000 dollars but it sure ain't peanuts, a nice amount to get handed to you, it seems clear now why he got involved, in his case not having to do truly with Knox but with trying to be seen as credible by those providing such huge amounts in funding. One may imagine him then paying his own way but I bet his trip or was it trips, to Italy were not paid for by him, each shark must have taken care of an own deal, every single time, with every single news agency interested and that would mean the ones already in Marriot's pocket.

After seeing how lousy the level of reporting is from ABC, I am ever-shocked each time late at night, the BBC is suddenly taken over for 15 or 30 minutes by ABC, the thing is, in Britain everyone who wants to watch TV must pay for a TV licence, regardless of whether you try to say but I hate the BBC and never watch it and only want to watch the others, it doesn't work, you have no right to just watch the others in Britain, even if you do not watch them and then really do not watch them and no kidding, in Britain you must still pay the licence fee, yet the BBC has this position as it was the first broadcasting company in the world and traditionally had no advertising, and though on TV there are no commercial breaks as was always the case, the test is now like everything else, which means accompanied by advertising, and what ABC is doing on there like some boy scout on an away week in another country welcomed around the camp fire of another scout pack, all looking at his different uniform with big eyes.

I think it is really wrong, see that's what happens in the UK, nowhere else, that special relationship, it's the shared language, etc, that bond is always there with countries who share English as the first language but with America, many are always in awe of America, so watching ABC news they probably slide into a John Wayne watching movie mode on a lazy Sunday afternoon, it's as though ABC is like the American cousin the family never get to see and that atmosphere, like I mean I haven't seen anyone asking anyone else in Britain whether they want the BBC to be taken over on occasion by ABC, it's distasteful considering the way ABC has shown some of the worst levels of journalism ever in this case, as far as I can see they stand for nothing, they have encouraged the scaremongering where people like Moore get to pretend the world is a place that Americans should fear since America is good and right and righteous and the rest is dark and dangerous, this is incredible how people like that have been getting to do this stuff.


Since we're discussing TV disruption, I have to say that my biggest disappointment with modern television is the freaks that present news and opinions. The mutated faces of women are especially disturbing. Their lips are puckered like a whinnying horse, their ears have been rearranged to sit at a 45 degree tilt, their eyes appear to be propped open by strings attached to the back of their scalp. It's like accidentally walking into the freak show tent at the circus.



Yes that's true, on the BBC though, the newsreaders though tidy look very human, whereas everything I see on American TV looks so shiny, so glossy, so fake that I never can listen to a minute of it, in all of this I do not think I have listened to an entire American news/chat show, it's simply unbearable, the plastic-facedness of it all, the lack of insight into anything, the lack of real research and absence of knowledge puts me right off, to ascertain this much, I did not ever need to keep watching all of it, just a few bits from each one is more than enough to know that there is nothing of value in any of it.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Those images of Sollecito's feet, the comparisons they do are ridiculous, the print from the mat is compared to some kind of fuzzed up image that as regards format/image type is entirely different to begin with but upon which nothing is discernible anyhow.

http://www.video.mediaset.it/video/quar ... ecito.html

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
And now, the Idaho Innocence Project has lost its funding, as reported by Jools @ORG. Mysterious ways, wonders... :-)


I love mysterious ways and wonders. pp-(
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:



Hard to believe it's been written by an adult. But it is quite revealing. There is a desperate pleading to it mixed with petulant bravado. ''Why not me too Mr Mignini. Please. I publicly defame you'' Please take notice of me. PLEASE give me the attention and affirmation that I am important and at the centre of these famous events. PLEASE give me publicity. Look at ME ME ME everybody! I am DEFAMING the evil Mignini. I challenge him. How DARE he ignore ME! Wife of GMAN! THE Gman! The FAMOUS Gman! The one that's on TV!

It's a childish and desperately self centred outlook so very reminiscent of Knox herself. They share a strange sense of victimhood mixed with an aggression that demands recognition and similarly aggressive response which in turn can feed the sense of victimhood. She and Gman have been THROWN into these terrible events. It's nothing to do with them sticking their noses into things they know nothing about to make a fast buck and some ego stroking fame. No. They have been THROWN into this by forces unknown but somehow involving the totemic evil of Mignini. These events have wrecked the lives of all involved which must include them and so they too are VICTIMS! Mignini is the prime mover so they are victims of Mignini. Look at ME! A brave martyr for the cause of justice! I am persecuted by Mignini (if only he would acknowledge my existence)

Their writing styles too have similarities; childish, incoherent and illogical. Nothing to say but a desperate need to say it and be appreciated for it. A wave of aspiration crashing into the rocks of mediocrity and resulting in a spray of anger and aggression drenching others. A toxic mix of stupidity, immaturity and irrelevance. A lack of intellect, self-awareness, humour and ability packaged into one anguished shout for recognition with a sideswipe advertisement for Gman Inc, the helicopter pilot and campus security guard who solves international murder mysteries. Pathetic.

Shades of Dempsey there; another desperate soul longing to be important. A cookery blogger who once in the misty and youthful past wrote a newspaper article and now imagines herself a journalist. She too sees herself as being THROWN into exciting international events. With neither talent nor expertise, she promptly charges in to write a book devoid of either logic or thought and dripping with factual errors courtesy of another sleazy blogger who has managed to lay an international trail of criminal shakedowns and violence. Too lazy and too incompetent to collect genuine information and with little or no Italian language skills, she tries to cover her lack of understanding with flowery and exotic language. The result is a new gold standard of stupidity dragged through an extended torture session of the English language.

Which reminds me of the mall worker, THROWN into international events and fearlessly fighting through the medium of his website the corrupt international press, the entire judiciary and police forces and political system of Italy, the shadowy group of 'haters' the Freemasons, the Iluminati and not forgetting the Catholics. The comments left on his website by his avid followers and fellow travellers make the 9/11 conspiracy theorists look sane and tame. Even David Icke fears being overshadowed.

The poor dears have to compete for attention with an alcoholic lawyer with drink driving convictions, a sleazy gumshoe with a history of making baseless hysterical claims which fit the agenda of the fee paying client and who faces legal investigations and with the inimitable Donald 'where's the birth certificate' Trump. A man who has been selling business courses which consist of a cheap certificate and a couple of presentations for thousands and who now faces more legal investigations. But at least they have batting for them a lawyer who can utter the immortal line '' There is no evidence, and what there is, is unreliable''. With humour like that surely they are in with a chance. They will laugh the charges out of court.

Some of the peripheral players are actually more interesting:

The scientist who is haunted by the memory of his incompetence or maleficence convicting an innocent man assuaging his conscience by using his incompetence or maleficence to free a guilty woman.

The judge who had the brainwave of starting the 'Judges for Justice' movement. Sadly the other US judges have not joined which leads us to conclude that either no other US judges are in favour of justice or that the one judge is a fatuous cretin and everybody knows it. Neither possibility is a good advertisement for US justice.

There's the journalist living in Italy who clearly hates Italy and reporting. His conflation of reporting and opinion appears to result from an inability to manage either to any useful standard.

There's the creative fiction writer who moved into non-fiction by using a rebranded and cliched fiction plot. One that places himself at the centre of events, THROWN into a maelstrom of conspiracy and crime that only he can resolve. The poor desperate soul craves living out in real life the kind of action role that he himself created for fictional characters in the past. A man truly disappearing up his own posterior. When the patent absurdity of his sleight of hand is pointed out he reverts to creative fiction to malign all those who show his non-fiction to be, well, fiction. The poor hysterical dear tries to act out an action role and finds that interfering in a police investigation is actually a crime and does not merit a thankful and awestruck doff of the cap by the local authorities but rather a recommendation to get a lawyer if he intends to continue such activities. Not quite living up to his self created heroic role, our fearless hero promptly scampers off home across the globe with the tear stains still on his cheeks and wages war from behind his keyboard in the bedroom. Then he complains that people confuse his fiction with his non-fiction. Most don't; they know it's ALL crap just with different titles.

The Anonymous movement should get a mention. Certainly some anonymous numbskulls parted with cash to help a convicted felon have a Caribbean holiday. Whether they are part of THE Anonymous movement is unknown but they are the only ones in the whole sorry mix who now really want to STAY anonymous.

It's not a campaign group, it's a travelling circus with too many performing monkeys. All of them revolve around the creative fiction writer whose creative fiction leads few to suspend disbelief despite numerous redrafts and endless TV plugs. Well they do say that you cannot polish a dog turd.

Like attracts like and the loons, the fame hungry, the opportunistic who smell dollars and the aspiring martyrs are out in force for team Knox. The only plus is that Amanda Knox's TV performance has improved markedly since her early hesitant performances. She now seems much more, well, polished.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

SqueakEMouse wrote:
Michael wrote:



Hard to believe it's been written by an adult. But it is quite revealing. There is a desperate pleading to it mixed with petulant bravado. ''Why not me too Mr Mignini. Please. I publicly defame you'' Please take notice of me. PLEASE give me the attention and affirmation that I am important and at the centre of these famous events. PLEASE give me publicity. Look at ME ME ME everybody! I am DEFAMING the evil Mignini. I challenge him. How DARE he ignore ME! Wife of GMAN! THE Gman! The FAMOUS Gman! The one that's on TV!

It's a childish and desperately self centred outlook so very reminiscent of Knox herself. They share a strange sense of victimhood mixed with an aggression that demands recognition and similarly aggressive response which in turn can feed the sense of victimhood. She and Gman have been THROWN into these terrible events. It's nothing to do with them sticking their noses into things they know nothing about to make a fast buck and some ego stroking fame. No. They have been THROWN into this by forces unknown but somehow involving the totemic evil of Mignini. These events have wrecked the lives of all involved which must include them and so they too are VICTIMS! Mignini is the prime mover so they are victims of Mignini. Look at ME! A brave martyr for the cause of justice! I am persecuted by Mignini (if only he would acknowledge my existence)

Their writing styles too have similarities; childish, incoherent and illogical. Nothing to say but a desperate need to say it and be appreciated for it. A wave of aspiration crashing into the rocks of mediocrity and resulting in a spray of anger and aggression drenching others. A toxic mix of stupidity, immaturity and irrelevance. A lack of intellect, self-awareness, humour and ability packaged into one anguished shout for recognition with a sideswipe advertisement for Gman Inc, the helicopter pilot and campus security guard who solves international murder mysteries. Pathetic.

Shades of Dempsey there; another desperate soul longing to be important. A cookery blogger who once in the misty and youthful past wrote a newspaper article and now imagines herself a journalist. She too sees herself as being THROWN into exciting international events. With neither talent nor expertise, she promptly charges in to write a book devoid of either logic or thought and dripping with factual errors courtesy of another sleazy blogger who has managed to lay an international trail of criminal shakedowns and violence. Too lazy and too incompetent to collect genuine information and with little or no Italian language skills, she tries to cover her lack of understanding with flowery and exotic language. The result is a new gold standard of stupidity dragged through an extended torture session of the English language.

Which reminds me of the mall worker, THROWN into international events and fearlessly fighting through the medium of his website the corrupt international press, the entire judiciary and police forces and political system of Italy, the shadowy group of 'haters' the Freemasons, the Iluminati and not forgetting the Catholics. The comments left on his website by his avid followers and fellow travellers make the 9/11 conspiracy theorists look sane and tame. Even David Icke fears being overshadowed.

The poor dears have to compete for attention with an alcoholic lawyer with drink driving convictions, a sleazy gumshoe with a history of making baseless hysterical claims which fit the agenda of the fee paying client and who faces legal investigations and with the inimitable Donald 'where's the birth certificate' Trump. A man who has been selling business courses which consist of a cheap certificate and a couple of presentations for thousands and who now faces more legal investigations. But at least they have batting for them a lawyer who can utter the immortal line '' There is no evidence, and what there is, is unreliable''. With humour like that surely they are in with a chance. They will laugh the charges out of court.

Some of the peripheral players are actually more interesting:

The scientist who is haunted by the memory of his incompetence or maleficence convicting an innocent man assuaging his conscience by using his incompetence or maleficence to free a guilty woman.

The judge who had the brainwave of starting the 'Judges for Justice' movement. Sadly the other US judges have not joined which leads us to conclude that either no other US judges are in favour of justice or that the one judge is a fatuous cretin and everybody knows it. Neither possibility is a good advertisement for US justice.

There's the journalist living in Italy who clearly hates Italy and reporting. His conflation of reporting and opinion appears to result from an inability to manage either to any useful standard.

There's the creative fiction writer who moved into non-fiction by using a rebranded and cliched fiction plot. One that places himself at the centre of events, THROWN into a maelstrom of conspiracy and crime that only he can resolve. The poor desperate soul craves living out in real life the kind of action role that he himself created for fictional characters in the past. A man truly disappearing up his own posterior. When the patent absurdity of his sleight of hand is pointed out he reverts to creative fiction to malign all those who show his non-fiction to be, well, fiction. The poor hysterical dear tries to act out an action role and finds that interfering in a police investigation is actually a crime and does not merit a thankful and awestruck doff of the cap by the local authorities but rather a recommendation to get a lawyer if he intends to continue such activities. Not quite living up to his self created heroic role, our fearless hero promptly scampers off home across the globe with the tear stains still on his cheeks and wages war from behind his keyboard in the bedroom. Then he complains that people confuse his fiction with his non-fiction. Most don't; they know it's ALL crap just with different titles.

The Anonymous movement should get a mention. Certainly some anonymous numbskulls parted with cash to help a convicted felon have a Caribbean holiday. Whether they are part of THE Anonymous movement is unknown but they are the only ones in the whole sorry mix who now really want to STAY anonymous.

It's not a campaign group, it's a travelling circus with too many performing monkeys. All of them revolve around the creative fiction writer whose creative fiction leads few to suspend disbelief despite numerous redrafts and endless TV plugs. Well they do say that you cannot polish a dog turd.

Like attracts like and the loons, the fame hungry, the opportunistic who smell dollars and the aspiring martyrs are out in force for team Knox. The only plus is that Amanda Knox's TV performance has improved markedly since her early hesitant performances. She now seems much more, well, polished.



Squeak, love your last post, I started out making a list earlier today of all of the dysfuncts but gave up so I take my hat off to you for managing to put it ALL in there, in your post.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I really like/Squeak how you mentioned the acts that beg for a certain response, that is what I find so hard and part of the reason why I do not take part in engaging with these people and when I say these we know who I mean.

What I cannot help feeling, looking at life from the personal level, with such hardships, which nobody has a patent on, then looking at the heartless murder of Meredith, the lies afterwards (perhaps worse than the murder itself insofar as degrees of wickedness), then everyday life and millions of people in the Philippines starving tonight, so heartbreaking to see, then all as I can think is that I must devote myself to love and forgiveness as I always have, which means, not to be drawn into reacting as you described but holding onto that bigger sense of love, and what with all of the hardships, the tragedy, the persons apart from these things who are simply bad, then the only way to go is to be a person who consciously chooses to be kind as much as possible since there is enough bad already, or else all as I would be able to think is, what is the use, one might as well be dead if this is life, what with the tragedy, and cruel bastards who make life feel like it is made of dirt, they cannot be helped since they refuse to back off, but no way is the answer to become like them in trying to expose what they are up to in order to hold onto a personal sense of value and reason to live.

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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
If Hamkipian had had no contact with V&C, he would have responded to a freedom of information request by stating that there had been no contact between him and the court appointed experts. The fact that he has relied on "state secret" laws to avoid responding to the request leaves no alternative but to conclude that he did correspond with the experts and that he does not want anyone to know about the nature of that correspondence.


That is my interpretation too. The natural reaction to Andrea Vogt's request would have been to at least deny there was any contact between him and the independent experts.

His involvement should be investigated.


Absolutely. Additionally, his funding was cut for a reason. We may not know about his correspondence with the court appointed experts, but I'm sure that someone reviewed his correspondence before it could be declared that his communication falls under the category of "state secrets". I get the impression that more people are concerned about his interference in the murder investigation, and that no one from the University wants the facts known.


According to ORG his wife is a dean at Boise University (under her maiden name) so that should make the cover up that much more necessary :)
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Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 503

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
SqueakEMouse wrote:
Michael wrote:



Hard to believe it's been written by an adult. But it is quite revealing. There is a desperate pleading to it mixed with petulant bravado. ''Why not me too Mr Mignini. Please. I publicly defame you'' Please take notice of me. PLEASE give me the attention and affirmation that I am important and at the centre of these famous events. PLEASE give me publicity. Look at ME ME ME everybody! I am DEFAMING the evil Mignini. I challenge him. How DARE he ignore ME! Wife of GMAN! THE Gman! The FAMOUS Gman! The one that's on TV!

It's a childish and desperately self centred outlook so very reminiscent of Knox herself. They share a strange sense of victimhood mixed with an aggression that demands recognition and similarly aggressive response which in turn can feed the sense of victimhood. She and Gman have been THROWN into these terrible events. It's nothing to do with them sticking their noses into things they know nothing about to make a fast buck and some ego stroking fame. No. They have been THROWN into this by forces unknown but somehow involving the totemic evil of Mignini. These events have wrecked the lives of all involved which must include them and so they too are VICTIMS! Mignini is the prime mover so they are victims of Mignini. Look at ME! A brave martyr for the cause of justice! I am persecuted by Mignini (if only he would acknowledge my existence)

Their writing styles too have similarities; childish, incoherent and illogical. Nothing to say but a desperate need to say it and be appreciated for it. A wave of aspiration crashing into the rocks of mediocrity and resulting in a spray of anger and aggression drenching others. A toxic mix of stupidity, immaturity and irrelevance. A lack of intellect, self-awareness, humour and ability packaged into one anguished shout for recognition with a sideswipe advertisement for Gman Inc, the helicopter pilot and campus security guard who solves international murder mysteries. Pathetic.

Shades of Dempsey there; another desperate soul longing to be important. A cookery blogger who once in the misty and youthful past wrote a newspaper article and now imagines herself a journalist. She too sees herself as being THROWN into exciting international events. With neither talent nor expertise, she promptly charges in to write a book devoid of either logic or thought and dripping with factual errors courtesy of another sleazy blogger who has managed to lay an international trail of criminal shakedowns and violence. Too lazy and too incompetent to collect genuine information and with little or no Italian language skills, she tries to cover her lack of understanding with flowery and exotic language. The result is a new gold standard of stupidity dragged through an extended torture session of the English language.

Which reminds me of the mall worker, THROWN into international events and fearlessly fighting through the medium of his website the corrupt international press, the entire judiciary and police forces and political system of Italy, the shadowy group of 'haters' the Freemasons, the Iluminati and not forgetting the Catholics. The comments left on his website by his avid followers and fellow travellers make the 9/11 conspiracy theorists look sane and tame. Even David Icke fears being overshadowed.

The poor dears have to compete for attention with an alcoholic lawyer with drink driving convictions, a sleazy gumshoe with a history of making baseless hysterical claims which fit the agenda of the fee paying client and who faces legal investigations and with the inimitable Donald 'where's the birth certificate' Trump. A man who has been selling business courses which consist of a cheap certificate and a couple of presentations for thousands and who now faces more legal investigations. But at least they have batting for them a lawyer who can utter the immortal line '' There is no evidence, and what there is, is unreliable''. With humour like that surely they are in with a chance. They will laugh the charges out of court.

Some of the peripheral players are actually more interesting:

The scientist who is haunted by the memory of his incompetence or maleficence convicting an innocent man assuaging his conscience by using his incompetence or maleficence to free a guilty woman.

The judge who had the brainwave of starting the 'Judges for Justice' movement. Sadly the other US judges have not joined which leads us to conclude that either no other US judges are in favour of justice or that the one judge is a fatuous cretin and everybody knows it. Neither possibility is a good advertisement for US justice.

There's the journalist living in Italy who clearly hates Italy and reporting. His conflation of reporting and opinion appears to result from an inability to manage either to any useful standard.

There's the creative fiction writer who moved into non-fiction by using a rebranded and cliched fiction plot. One that places himself at the centre of events, THROWN into a maelstrom of conspiracy and crime that only he can resolve. The poor desperate soul craves living out in real life the kind of action role that he himself created for fictional characters in the past. A man truly disappearing up his own posterior. When the patent absurdity of his sleight of hand is pointed out he reverts to creative fiction to malign all those who show his non-fiction to be, well, fiction. The poor hysterical dear tries to act out an action role and finds that interfering in a police investigation is actually a crime and does not merit a thankful and awestruck doff of the cap by the local authorities but rather a recommendation to get a lawyer if he intends to continue such activities. Not quite living up to his self created heroic role, our fearless hero promptly scampers off home across the globe with the tear stains still on his cheeks and wages war from behind his keyboard in the bedroom. Then he complains that people confuse his fiction with his non-fiction. Most don't; they know it's ALL crap just with different titles.

The Anonymous movement should get a mention. Certainly some anonymous numbskulls parted with cash to help a convicted felon have a Caribbean holiday. Whether they are part of THE Anonymous movement is unknown but they are the only ones in the whole sorry mix who now really want to STAY anonymous.

It's not a campaign group, it's a travelling circus with too many performing monkeys. All of them revolve around the creative fiction writer whose creative fiction leads few to suspend disbelief despite numerous redrafts and endless TV plugs. Well they do say that you cannot polish a dog turd.

Like attracts like and the loons, the fame hungry, the opportunistic who smell dollars and the aspiring martyrs are out in force for team Knox. The only plus is that Amanda Knox's TV performance has improved markedly since her early hesitant performances. She now seems much more, well, polished.



Squeak, love your last post, I started out making a list earlier today of all of the dysfuncts but gave up so I take my hat off to you for managing to put it ALL in there, in your post.

Zorba your post actually made me laugh you have these people down pat. Sadly they could be characters in the board game Clue, they show their intentions and their stupidity in such an exaggerated way.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

SqueakEMouse wrote:
Michael wrote:



Hard to believe it's been written by an adult. But it is quite revealing. There is a desperate pleading to it mixed with petulant bravado. ''Why not me too Mr Mignini. Please. I publicly defame you'' Please take notice of me. PLEASE give me the attention and affirmation that I am important and at the centre of these famous events. PLEASE give me publicity. Look at ME ME ME everybody! I am DEFAMING the evil Mignini. I challenge him. How DARE he ignore ME! Wife of GMAN! THE Gman! The FAMOUS Gman! The one that's on TV!

It's a childish and desperately self centred outlook so very reminiscent of Knox herself. They share a strange sense of victimhood mixed with an aggression that demands recognition and similarly aggressive response which in turn can feed the sense of victimhood. She and Gman have been THROWN into these terrible events. It's nothing to do with them sticking their noses into things they know nothing about to make a fast buck and some ego stroking fame. No. They have been THROWN into this by forces unknown but somehow involving the totemic evil of Mignini. These events have wrecked the lives of all involved which must include them and so they too are VICTIMS! Mignini is the prime mover so they are victims of Mignini. Look at ME! A brave martyr for the cause of justice! I am persecuted by Mignini (if only he would acknowledge my existence)

Their writing styles too have similarities; childish, incoherent and illogical. Nothing to say but a desperate need to say it and be appreciated for it. A wave of aspiration crashing into the rocks of mediocrity and resulting in a spray of anger and aggression drenching others. A toxic mix of stupidity, immaturity and irrelevance. A lack of intellect, self-awareness, humour and ability packaged into one anguished shout for recognition with a sideswipe advertisement for Gman Inc, the helicopter pilot and campus security guard who solves international murder mysteries. Pathetic.

Shades of Dempsey there; another desperate soul longing to be important. A cookery blogger who once in the misty and youthful past wrote a newspaper article and now imagines herself a journalist. She too sees herself as being THROWN into exciting international events. With neither talent nor expertise, she promptly charges in to write a book devoid of either logic or thought and dripping with factual errors courtesy of another sleazy blogger who has managed to lay an international trail of criminal shakedowns and violence. Too lazy and too incompetent to collect genuine information and with little or no Italian language skills, she tries to cover her lack of understanding with flowery and exotic language. The result is a new gold standard of stupidity dragged through an extended torture session of the English language.

Which reminds me of the mall worker, THROWN into international events and fearlessly fighting through the medium of his website the corrupt international press, the entire judiciary and police forces and political system of Italy, the shadowy group of 'haters' the Freemasons, the Iluminati and not forgetting the Catholics. The comments left on his website by his avid followers and fellow travellers make the 9/11 conspiracy theorists look sane and tame. Even David Icke fears being overshadowed.

The poor dears have to compete for attention with an alcoholic lawyer with drink driving convictions, a sleazy gumshoe with a history of making baseless hysterical claims which fit the agenda of the fee paying client and who faces legal investigations and with the inimitable Donald 'where's the birth certificate' Trump. A man who has been selling business courses which consist of a cheap certificate and a couple of presentations for thousands and who now faces more legal investigations. But at least they have batting for them a lawyer who can utter the immortal line '' There is no evidence, and what there is, is unreliable''. With humour like that surely they are in with a chance. They will laugh the charges out of court.

Some of the peripheral players are actually more interesting:

The scientist who is haunted by the memory of his incompetence or maleficence convicting an innocent man assuaging his conscience by using his incompetence or maleficence to free a guilty woman.

The judge who had the brainwave of starting the 'Judges for Justice' movement. Sadly the other US judges have not joined which leads us to conclude that either no other US judges are in favour of justice or that the one judge is a fatuous cretin and everybody knows it. Neither possibility is a good advertisement for US justice.

There's the journalist living in Italy who clearly hates Italy and reporting. His conflation of reporting and opinion appears to result from an inability to manage either to any useful standard.

There's the creative fiction writer who moved into non-fiction by using a rebranded and cliched fiction plot. One that places himself at the centre of events, THROWN into a maelstrom of conspiracy and crime that only he can resolve. The poor desperate soul craves living out in real life the kind of action role that he himself created for fictional characters in the past. A man truly disappearing up his own posterior. When the patent absurdity of his sleight of hand is pointed out he reverts to creative fiction to malign all those who show his non-fiction to be, well, fiction. The poor hysterical dear tries to act out an action role and finds that interfering in a police investigation is actually a crime and does not merit a thankful and awestruck doff of the cap by the local authorities but rather a recommendation to get a lawyer if he intends to continue such activities. Not quite living up to his self created heroic role, our fearless hero promptly scampers off home across the globe with the tear stains still on his cheeks and wages war from behind his keyboard in the bedroom. Then he complains that people confuse his fiction with his non-fiction. Most don't; they know it's ALL crap just with different titles.

The Anonymous movement should get a mention. Certainly some anonymous numbskulls parted with cash to help a convicted felon have a Caribbean holiday. Whether they are part of THE Anonymous movement is unknown but they are the only ones in the whole sorry mix who now really want to STAY anonymous.

It's not a campaign group, it's a travelling circus with too many performing monkeys. All of them revolve around the creative fiction writer whose creative fiction leads few to suspend disbelief despite numerous redrafts and endless TV plugs. Well they do say that you cannot polish a dog turd.

Like attracts like and the loons, the fame hungry, the opportunistic who smell dollars and the aspiring martyrs are out in force for team Knox. The only plus is that Amanda Knox's TV performance has improved markedly since her early hesitant performances. She now seems much more, well, polished.



Thank you for that very astute assessment of Michelle Moore and her fellow loons and parasites (although, I feel she's been given far more attention then she deserves). Here's the problem, essentially, as I see it. Certain quarters of the media in the past, have entertained some of the worst Knox Camp know-nothing blow hards without requirement for accountability. This has sent a message to the rest of Knox's followers that even if they have no talent, no charisma and little honesty and integrity, they too may have a shot and be taken seriously. Therefore, the FOAKers have become almost a little cottage industry within themselves, each competing with each other to see who can "out-loon" and "out-hyperbole" the other, all with the idea that no matter how ridiculous they become, past history demonstrates that someone important out there just may take them seriously and give them their 15 minutes of fame and prestige. They are all so desperate to be important.

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Offline McCall


Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 3:38 pm

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:


Steve Morre is an idiot. With Michelle Moore it goes beyond just an issue of intelligence. She is mentally unstable.
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Offline McCall


Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
The Machine wrote:
Eulonda Skyles has written an absolutely brilliant article about the alleged role of trade secret forensic evidence in the case:

http://blogs.orrick.com/trade-secrets-w ... rder-case/


I just read the article after seeing it posted on Twitter. it is excellent.

What is most troubling in my opinion is that neither Boise State University nor Greg Hampikian categorically deny to have been in contact with the judges or independent experts.

There is no research, in progress or otherwise, that needs to be protected, it is the collaboration with the independent experts Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti that they are trying to hide.



Surely if it can be shown that he had contact with Hellmann or V&C, that contact would be something highly illegal since the two experts were supposed to be experts hired in to provide their opinion through their analysis, not to provide the court with the opinion of a Knox main supporter.

There must be records, somewhere/somehow of calls from Mr Ham.


If Hamkipian had had no contact with V&C, he would have responded to a freedom of information request by stating that there had been no contact between him and the court appointed experts. The fact that he has relied on "state secret" laws to avoid responding to the request leaves no alternative but to conclude that he did correspond with the experts and that he does not want anyone to know about the nature of that correspondence.


That is my interpretation too. The natural reaction to Andrea Vogt's request would have been to at least deny there was any contact between him and the independent experts.

His involvement should be investigated.


I have no doubts that Hampikian provided the content for C&V's report. Hampikian also lied about his coke can experiment. That is less serious than C&V who had a duty to be independent experts. I would like to see them investigated.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Desperate to cash in, one way or another, is what keeps crossing my mind.

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Offline chami


Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:36 pm

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Desperate to cash in, one way or another, is what keeps crossing my mind.


Right. That is the only thing that finally matters to them. Everything else is incidental.
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:


I have no doubts that Hampikian provided the content for C&V's report. Hampikian also lied about his coke can experiment. That is less serious than C&V who had a duty to be independent experts. I would like to see them investigated.


Would be great if that happened. Judge Nencini's quip to Major Barni about whether "he'd be able to make reference to non-American experts" makes it very clear how much he believes Hampikian had inserted himself into the C&V report, and the weight he will give to it.

I see Hampikian helped set up Innocence Projects in Ireland and elsewhere. (Boise State site) Will be fun to see how much this effects his credibility in the future.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I do remember having the impression that the fully translated knoxdnareport wordpress site went up rather quickly after the experts deposited their report in Perugia. I want to say within a day or two.

Edit, which could just be a sign they were especially motivated to do it.

The other thing that jumped out at me was that the crazy bolding on the wordpress was actually in the original.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Jester wrote:
If Hamkipian had had no contact with V&C, he would have responded to a freedom of information request by stating that there had been no contact between him and the court appointed experts. The fact that he has relied on "state secret" laws to avoid responding to the request leaves no alternative but to conclude that he did correspond with the experts and that he does not want anyone to know about the nature of that correspondence.


That is my interpretation too. The natural reaction to Andrea Vogt's request would have been to at least deny there was any contact between him and the independent experts.

His involvement should be investigated.


Absolutely. Additionally, his funding was cut for a reason. We may not know about his correspondence with the court appointed experts, but I'm sure that someone reviewed his correspondence before it could be declared that his communication falls under the category of "state secrets". I get the impression that more people are concerned about his interference in the murder investigation, and that no one from the University wants the facts known.


According to ORG his wife is a dean at Boise University (under her maiden name) so that should make the cover up that much more necessary :)


I'm curious. Is he a researcher, or does he also have teaching responsibilities? If he's a researcher and his funding disappears, I wonder how long he can coast before he needs to review career options. I did read that the number of grants was reduced, but still it's not a good sign that such a large grant vanished. Given that Hampikian seems to have gone off script by giving too much attention to a case that is, in reality, completely unrelated to anything that goes on in the US, I think he will have to work hard to regain local confidence that local funding will benefit people in the US. I suspect that there should be an audit of his expenses (perhaps that has already happened). If he was travelling to Italy on research funding, I think that could be a problem. I suppose, in his defence, he believes that he is contributing to the improvement of international protocols related to DNA analysis, but if the funding is intended to somehow benefit people in the US, then ensuring that international criminals can avoid prosecution by discrediting DNA analysis doesn't seem to benefit people in the US. It also doesn't seem to further research in DNA. If Hampikian is the author of "anything is possible", without realizing that this is insufficient as a legal argument, then I'd suggest that he is too deep in the Ivory Tower to make his research practical.

In any case, it looks like another one is biting the dust on the coat tales of Knox. Moore sacrificed his career with the same mistake.
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:

And I do not know what others think about the tidy sum of 220,000 dollars but it sure ain't peanuts, a nice amount to get handed to you, it seems clear now why he got involved, in his case not having to do truly with Knox but with trying to be seen as credible by those providing such huge amounts in funding. One may imagine him then paying his own way but I bet his trip or was it trips, to Italy were not paid for by him, each shark must have taken care of an own deal, every single time, with every single news agency interested and that would mean the ones already in Marriot's pocket.

After seeing how lousy the level of reporting is from ABC, I am ever-shocked each time late at night, the BBC is suddenly taken ober for 15 or 30 minutes by ABC, the thing is, in Britain everyone who wants to watch TV must pay for a TV licence, regardless of whether you try to say but I hate the BBC and never watch t and only want to watch the others, it doesn't work, you have no right to just watch the others in Britain, even if you do not watch them and then really do not watch them and no kidding, in Britain you must still pay the licence fee, yet the BBC has this position as it was the first broadcasting company in the world and traditionally had no advertising, and though on TV there are no commercial breaks as was always the case, the test is now like everything else, which means accompanied by advertising, and what ABC is doing on there like some boy scout on an away week in another country welcomed around the camp fire of another scout pack, all looking at his different uniform with big eyes.

I think it is really wrong, see that's what happens in the UK, nowhere else, that special relationship, it's the shared language, etc, that bond is always there with countries who share English as the first language but with America, many are always in awe of America, so watching ABC news they probably slide into watching a John Wayne watching movie mode on a lazy Sunday afternoon, it's like ABC is like the American cousin the family never get to see and that atmosphere, like I mean I haven't seen anyone asking anyone else in Britain whether they want the BBC to be taken over on occasion by ABC, it's distasteful considering the way ABC has shown some of the worst levels of journalism ever in this case, as far as I can see they stand for northing, they have encouraged the scaremongering where people like Moore get to pretend the world is a place that Americans should fear since America is good and right and righteous and therest is dark and dangerous, this is incredible how people like that have been getting to do this stuff.


Since we're discussing TV disruption, I have to say that my biggest disappointment with modern television is the freaks that present news and opinions. The mutated faces of women are especially disturbing. Their lips are puckered like a whinnying horse, their ears have been rearranged to sit at a 45 degree tilt, their eyes appear to be propped open by strings attached to the back of their scalp. It's like accidentally walking into the freak show tent at the circus.

Hi Jester...The bovine look is very popular in cosmetic surgery circles (and Hollywood). ??
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I see alot of the exact opposite too... very good-looking women that don't really care or know much about what they are reporting. No expert on the guys tho. Sport's reporting is horrible for that with the ladies, although some are very sharp.
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:44 pm   Post subject: GREG HAMPIKIAN NEWS   

Idaho Innocence Project

Quote:
What makes us unique
We are the only Innocence Project that is directed by a forensic genetics expert (Dr. Greg Hampikian). Part of our unique mission is assisting other projects across the United States and abroad on DNA issues. Since 2005, Dr. Hampikian has helped start Innocence Projects in Ireland and France, and established the International Innocence program which reviews DNA cases outside the United States.

By: Kathleen Tuck Published 2:09 pm / May 11, 2011
Hampikian, Idaho Innocence Project at Center of Amanda Knox Appeal

Quote:
A high-profile international murder case is getting a second look by authorities in Italy after a team of experts, including Boise State’s Greg Hampikian (left) and the Idaho Innocence Project (IIP), disputed the DNA evidence against Amanda Knox and her codefendant Raffaele Sollecito.

Knox, the American student tried and convicted of killing her roommate while studying abroad in Perugia, Italy, in 2007 currently is appealing her conviction with assistance from Hampikian and the IIP. Hampikian, a forensic DNA expert and professor of biology and criminal justice, played a key role in the analysis of DNA that is at the center of the appeal.

His take on the DNA evidence: It points to Rudy Guede, not Knox. Guede, whose DNA was found on the victim’s body, was convicted of the murder in a separate trial.

“The one piece of evidence that tied Amanda Knox to this case is a kitchen knife with such a low level of the victim’s DNA on it – and no trace of blood – that it probably represents casual or unintended transfer,” Hampikian said. “You have to look at all the evidence, and it clearly points to Rudy Guede. He is the only one identified by DNA recovered right after the murder, from the victim’s body and her possessions. Amanda Knox’s DNA is nowhere in the room where the murder occurred.”


Researcher Reveals New Way to Safeguard DNA Samples
By: Sherry Squires Published 10:57 am / April 29, 2013
Quote:
DNA evidence is invisible and remarkably easy to transfer, making it possible for a sample to be spilled or even planted on a piece of evidence.

Boise State University professor Greg Hampikian is known internationally for his work in DNA forensics, and he has developed a solution that permanently marks DNA samples to prevent contamination. Hampikian has used nullomers, the smallest DNA sequences that are absent from nature, to create the DNA bar code.

He has been working on the invention for more than a decade and recently demonstrated its results for the first time in his Boise State lab. His research will be published by The Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine. The peer-reviewed results are available pre-publication at http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8X1300022X


Abdelkrim Alileche and Greg Hampikian
By: Kathleen Tuck Published 7:27 am / September 23, 2013
Quote:
Abdelkrim Alileche and Greg Hampikian, Department of Biological Sciences, have been awarded a $100,000 Elsa U. Pardee Foundation cancer research grant to develop anticancer drugs from the small proteins they study called Nullomer Peptides. Nullomer Peptides are the smallest proteins not found in nature. They were discovered through a collaboration with Tim Andersen, chair of the Department of Computer Science, by searching all publicly available databases of known protein sequences.

“The idea is that Mother Nature has been running the world’s longest experiment, called ‘life on earth.’ After 3.5 billion years, absent or rare sequences of DNA and protein may have been selected against, and that makes them interesting in terms of cancer and microbe killing potential,” Hampikian said. Boise State University has applied for patents on 198 of the Nullomer Peptides. Hampikian also has been awarded a separate $50,000 by the Idaho Higher Education Research Council (HERC) award to pursue commercialization.


So the Idaho Innocence Project might be on its last legs, but Dr. Hampikian appears to be sailing along quite well.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Seems technology renders many insecure, and this plays a part in what is happening now with dumbing down, like in journalism where nobody has a real voice, because they are too afraid to use it, afraid of losing their position just as so many are nowadays where traditionally a person could more often than not keep a job for life, these days people are thrown on the scrapheap overnight, not just the persons a little older, some (young people) never even get started now, because the way the machine works doesn't care about people, in fact the people are slaves to the machine.

I'm glad Andrea hasn't written a book, I still trust her, I say this because it is not only people in support of Knox profiting from Meredith's murder!!! and out of all of these journalists there's hardly any able to write insightfully and accurately and that with a good dose of proper research.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:19 pm   Post subject: Re: GREG HAMPIKIAN NEWS   

Ergon wrote:
Idaho Innocence Project

Quote:
What makes us unique
We are the only Innocence Project that is directed by a forensic genetics expert (Dr. Greg Hampikian). Part of our unique mission is assisting other projects across the United States and abroad on DNA issues. Since 2005, Dr. Hampikian has helped start Innocence Projects in Ireland and France, and established the International Innocence program which reviews DNA cases outside the United States.

By: Kathleen Tuck Published 2:09 pm / May 11, 2011
Hampikian, Idaho Innocence Project at Center of Amanda Knox Appeal

Quote:
A high-profile international murder case is getting a second look by authorities in Italy after a team of experts, including Boise State’s Greg Hampikian (left) and the Idaho Innocence Project (IIP), disputed the DNA evidence against Amanda Knox and her codefendant Raffaele Sollecito.

Knox, the American student tried and convicted of killing her roommate while studying abroad in Perugia, Italy, in 2007 currently is appealing her conviction with assistance from Hampikian and the IIP. Hampikian, a forensic DNA expert and professor of biology and criminal justice, played a key role in the analysis of DNA that is at the center of the appeal.

His take on the DNA evidence: It points to Rudy Guede, not Knox. Guede, whose DNA was found on the victim’s body, was convicted of the murder in a separate trial.

“The one piece of evidence that tied Amanda Knox to this case is a kitchen knife with such a low level of the victim’s DNA on it – and no trace of blood – that it probably represents casual or unintended transfer,” Hampikian said. “You have to look at all the evidence, and it clearly points to Rudy Guede. He is the only one identified by DNA recovered right after the murder, from the victim’s body and her possessions. Amanda Knox’s DNA is nowhere in the room where the murder occurred.”


Researcher Reveals New Way to Safeguard DNA Samples
By: Sherry Squires Published 10:57 am / April 29, 2013
Quote:
DNA evidence is invisible and remarkably easy to transfer, making it possible for a sample to be spilled or even planted on a piece of evidence.

Boise State University professor Greg Hampikian is known internationally for his work in DNA forensics, and he has developed a solution that permanently marks DNA samples to prevent contamination. Hampikian has used nullomers, the smallest DNA sequences that are absent from nature, to create the DNA bar code.

He has been working on the invention for more than a decade and recently demonstrated its results for the first time in his Boise State lab. His research will be published by The Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine. The peer-reviewed results are available pre-publication at http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8X1300022X


Abdelkrim Alileche and Greg Hampikian
By: Kathleen Tuck Published 7:27 am / September 23, 2013
Quote:
Abdelkrim Alileche and Greg Hampikian, Department of Biological Sciences, have been awarded a $100,000 Elsa U. Pardee Foundation cancer research grant to develop anticancer drugs from the small proteins they study called Nullomer Peptides. Nullomer Peptides are the smallest proteins not found in nature. They were discovered through a collaboration with Tim Andersen, chair of the Department of Computer Science, by searching all publicly available databases of known protein sequences.

“The idea is that Mother Nature has been running the world’s longest experiment, called ‘life on earth.’ After 3.5 billion years, absent or rare sequences of DNA and protein may have been selected against, and that makes them interesting in terms of cancer and microbe killing potential,” Hampikian said. Boise State University has applied for patents on 198 of the Nullomer Peptides. Hampikian also has been awarded a separate $50,000 by the Idaho Higher Education Research Council (HERC) award to pursue commercialization.


So the Idaho Innocence Project might be on its last legs, but Dr. Hampikian appears to be sailing along quite well.


Thank you for this excellent research. Having this in one post is very useful.

The way I understand it Boise State University refuses to comply with the Freedom of Information Act because correspondence between Greg Hampikian and Carla Vecchiotti would reveal his "trade secret" about nullomers. Frankly, I would not have expected Carla Vecchiotti's name or the judges names to come up at all when discussing the case legally with the defence team's experts.

So the only conclusion I can come to is he was discussing his theories with Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti directly, which would have been unethical and also illegal.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

(( OT OT - or maybe not ))

Bullies more likely to engage in risky sex, study finds

03:40, Psychology & Psychiatry



MEDICAL XPRESS

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:28 pm   Post subject: MORE HAMPIKIAN NEWS   

Thanks, Nell. From the BSU letter denying access to their purported "trade secrets":
Quote:
"[T]he product of Dr. Hampikian’s work on Ms. Knox’s defense constitutes unpublished information that is not readily ascertainable and has been the subject of reasonable efforts to maintain its private nature. Such information is of potential economic value and is thus recognized as a trade secret under Idaho Code Section 9-340(D)(1). So the records you are requesting are exempt from public disclosure under that exemption as well."


It seems the good doctor Hampikian wants to have a cake and gobble it up too. On the one hand, nullomer proteins that can be used to barcode DNA and also part of his cancer research grant, on the other hand, and not even related to that, publicly available research on Low Template DNA and tertiary transfer/contamination, which he communicated, most likely and as you say, directly to Conti and Vecchiotti. That's what the University, thanks to his and his wife's position there, wants to cover up.

Now that his research on 'nullomer bar codes' has been submitted for review, and his communication with C&V having nothing to do with cancer research, time for another FOIA request to the state of Idaho, I say :)
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:32 pm   Post subject: Re: MORE HAMPIKIAN NEWS   

Ergon wrote:
Thanks, Nell. From the BSU letter denying access to their purported "trade secrets":
Quote:
"[T]he product of Dr. Hampikian’s work on Ms. Knox’s defense constitutes unpublished information that is not readily ascertainable and has been the subject of reasonable efforts to maintain its private nature. Such information is of potential economic value and is thus recognized as a trade secret under Idaho Code Section 9-340(D)(1). So the records you are requesting are exempt from public disclosure under that exemption as well."


It seems the good doctor Hampikian wants to have a cake and gobble it up too. On the one hand, nullomer proteins that can be used to barcode DNA and also part of his cancer research grant, on the other hand, and not even related to that, publicly available research on Low Template DNA and tertiary transfer/contamination, which he communicated, most likely and as you say, directly to Conti and Vecchiotti. That's what the University, thanks to his and his wife's position there, wants to cover up.

Now that his research on 'nullomer bar codes' has been submitted for review, and his communication with C&V having nothing to do with cancer research, time for another FOIA request to the state of Idaho, I say :)


According to Scopus, he has three publications that has nullomer in the title:

Alileche, A., Goswami, J., Bourland, W., Davis, M., & Hampikian, G. (2012). Nullomer derived anticancer peptides (NulloPs): Differential lethal effects on normal and cancer cells in vitro. Peptides, 38(2), 302-311. Retrieved from http://www.scopus.com
Goswami, J., Davis, M. C., Andersen, T., Alileche, A., & Hampikian, G. (2013). Safeguarding forensic DNA reference samples with nullomer barcodes. Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine, 20(5), 513-519. Retrieved from http://www.scopus.com
Hampikian, G., & Andersen, T. (2007). Absent sequences: Nullomers and primes. Paper presented at the Pacific Symposium on Biocomputing 2007, PSB 2007, 355-366. Retrieved from http://www.scopus.com


And the first paper was a conference publication. There may be other publications not listed by Scopus.

In the last 10 years, there is only one more publication on nullomer (but he was not in the list of authors):

Acquisti, C., Poste, G., Curtiss, D., & Kumar, S. (2007). Nullomers: Really a matter of natural selection? PLoS ONE, 2(10) Retrieved from http://www.scopus.com

I thought his 2012 paper may be interesting but I could not download it. Perhaps I can ask him for a .pdf copy.

Good but not great.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes well Ham's bizznizz, which it is, is not going to be convincing any Italian court that somehow 2000 coincidences took place, and police who did not even enter the cottage, most likely, somehow of all people happened to transport Meredith's DNA onto the tip of a knife, a knife I doubt very much they held with bare hands.

I knew there were some wicked shits running aorund but through this case I often do not know what to think at all anymore.

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Last edited by zorba on Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito confident of acquittal in Kercher murder retrial
Ex-student says he feels condemned more by media than people
13/11/2013

Raffaele Sollecito on Tuesday night told a television programme that he had confidence [in] the outcome of a new trial for him and his ex-girlfriend Amanda Knox for the 2007 killing of British exchange student Meredith Kercher. ''I am facing this trial with confidence in the people who read the facts as they are...I continue to see that there are capable people, who extract the truth without being influenced by the idea put out by the media or by people who want to create a character,'' said Sollecito. Sollecito called in live to television channel La7's current affairs show 'Linea Gialla', which hosted his defense lawyer Luca Maori and the Kercher family's lawyer Francesco Maresca. ''I am doing this favour (of calling into the show) even if in reality I have decided to remain silent until the sentence is issued,'' Sollecito added. When asked if the Kercher case and trials have made him feel socially isolated, Sollecito said no.


GAZZETTA DEL SUD

I see that the host of Linea Gialla (Yellow Line) is Salvo Sottile, former host of Quarto Grado, who was the first to interview Sollecito after his acquittal in 2011.

Short video: recording of Sollecito's call to Linea Gialla:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAxfB5KjwUA
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Another short video:

Keith Miller reporting from Florence for the TODAY show

Alexander Guttieres, who argued for the defense in the Channel 5 documentary "Amanda Knox Trial: 5 Key Questions", speaks briefly at the end of the clip.

http://www.today.com/video/today/53476348/#53476348
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   



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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Yes well Ham's bizznizz, which it is, is not going to be convincing any Italian court that somehow 2000 coincidences took place, and police who did not even enter the cottage...


You may be right but usually arguments are won by the strength of the vocal chords of the lawyers.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Can someone help me out with finding the numbers for the withdrawal/deposit AK made that Charlie posted about before quickly deleting his post. Cape caught him out.

That fact really gets on their nerves something fierce. Want to post it elsewhere for interested parties.

Thanks in advance.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
zorba wrote:
Yes well Ham's bizznizz, which it is, is not going to be convincing any Italian court that somehow 2000 coincidences took place, and police who did not even enter the cottage...


You may be right but usually arguments are won by the strength of the vocal chords of the lawyers.



Hi Chami, mmm, well, sometimes, but since this particular judge appears to outboom the attendees, I do not think it is going to be decided on big gobs but by realistic, well reasoned interpretations backed up by the plethora of rational conclusions based on sound reasoning along with cousin logical.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Never mind my friends... I found the information.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Popular forensic crime writer says Amanda Knox is innocent
By Associated Press and KOMO Staff
Published: Nov 14, 2013 at 9:05 AM PST

Popular crime writer Patricia Cornwell said she has no doubts that Amanda Knox is innocent and had nothing to do with the murder of her British roommate Meredith Kercher in Italy.

Cornwell, who is widely known for writing a popular series of novels featuring medical examiner Dr. Kay Scarpetta, said in an interview with the Associated Press that she follows modern stories closely, from the trial of Casey Anthony to the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey.

She believes the Amanda Knox case in Italy is an example of a poorly investigated crime, rejecting speculation that British exchange student Meredith Kercher was killed as part of a wild sexual ritual.


KOMO NEWS

Patricia Cornwell on Amanda Knox, O J Cases



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rkUQza1UvA
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Patricia Cornwell may believe that it was a lone assailant , but at least she delves into the reasons for delayed digestion. Chris Halides has refused to acknowledge that stress can halt digestion. He tries to pin Meredith's death to just after 9 to exclude Amanda and Sollecito. Even a nasty argument can seriously disrupt the process. So Chris and followers at JREFp hope you read this.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito speaks with Giallo:

Meredith murder, Raffaele Sollecito: "It is the image of Amanda Knox that blemishes me [i.e., my reputation]"

By Andrea Biavardi and Daniela Uva

"You ask if Amanda does damage to my reputation? In a way, yes. Not as a person, but her image. The character that has been created, causing problems for me. Would I have liked to see her return to Italy, like me, to participate in the trial? Definitely yes, it would have been a nice gesture. But I do not blame her for not doing so, she is an American citizen and the law gives this possibility. But I am Italian. I have always fought alone in this story, with the help of my family and my lawyers. I will continue to do so. And if I am convicted by a final verdict, I will stand before the gates of a prison."

THE ONLY INTERVIEW We are in Bisceglie, near Bari, in a hotel a few steps from the house where the family of Raffaele Sollecito, 29, lives since 2000. The boy accused, together with his ex-girlfriend Amanda Knox, of the murder of Meredith Kercher, who was killed at her home in Perugia on November 1, 2007, decided to break his silence with Giallo [magazine]. And it's the first time he speaks with the press since November 5, the day when he returned to Italy to attend the hearings of the second appeal process, in Florence. He will not release anymore interviews until January 10, the day of the [appeal] judgement. The verdict could hold many surprises. On the one hand, there's the defense of Raffaele, who fights on the ground of a lack of evidence. There's the kitchen knife considered to be the murder weapon. That knife belonged to Raffaele, was found in his house. And on the handle was found a DNA trace of Amanda. Raffaele Sollecito says: "Of course, we were using it together to cook, to cut bread and potatoes." This was stated in the courtroom in Florence. All have seen him crying while once again professing his innocence. Meanwhile, Italy is still divided in two: on one side there are those who see him as guilty, dominated by the diabolical American; on the other, there are those who believe his words. But everyone, absolutely everyone, is asking the same question: what kind of justice is there in Italy? How can two people be condemned to 25 years imprisonment for murder in the first degree trial and then absolved for having not committed the crime? Who's wrong: the judges at first instance or those in second [trial]? Or both, with the result that we do not know the truth? Will it ever be known? Sollecito says the truth is there. And he chose to tell it to Giallo.

"NEVER THOUGHT TO FLEE" We expect him in the garden of a hotel. He comes with the inseparable dad Franco, his guardian angel, and with the lawyer Francesco Mastro, defending him. It's a bit late. It's 12 on Saturday. "Excuse me, but I finished [spaced out?] at five in the morning - he justifies - I did not see my old friends for six months. I'm not a party animal, but I try to carve out a little 'normal' niche for myself." We ask him why he chose to speak to us [from Giallo]? "We have confidence in your work." Then, we take note of one thing: contrary to what some thought, he chose to appear in court. Have you ever thought of running away instead? "Deciding to go back to Italy was not easy. But then I realized that for me to present myself in court was proper. And when I said yes, I never questioned my decision. I'm known for keeping commitments." In the first instance you have been sentenced to 25 years for murder, you have been acquitted on appeal with the full formula. How is this possible? Who's wrong and especially who are those who will pay? "We, Amanda and I, are paying with our lives. And all of you with your taxes. I note that in the first instance I'd never been given the opportunity to obtain expert opinions on matters brought up by the police. And that Rudy Guede, convicted of murder 'in concorso', had never entered our trial. He chose a fast track trial, and so our ways were divided. And the state [system] terror was largest in this process."


MENTI INFORMATICHE

Giallo - N. 32 - 20 Novembre 2013

Attachment:
giallo_20nov13.jpg


Sollecito: "Yes, Amanda's image has hurt me." (Browse summary/preview)

CAIRO EDITORE


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nice summary of the Giallo interview by MisterPink on .org HERE and HERE.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

By the way, the two "lovebirds" were featured on the cover of Settimanale (weekly) GIALLO
in the April 17 issue (N.1), too.

Giallo - N. 1 - 17 Aprile 2013

Attachment:
giallo_17apr13.jpg


CAIRO EDITORE

Looks like a cheap mag à la OGGI, suitable for leafing through at the hairdresser's or the dentist's...


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Offline KingSlayer


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi guys

I have a few questions.

Did Hampikian declare Knox innocent or just that the DNA evidence does not convict her? It seems irresponsible for him to declare her innocent across the board, in his professional role. It seems like an expert would abstain from talking about an ongoing legal case that he has not been called to testify in, regardless.
I thought that I read on True Justice that he was one of them scientists who confirmed Dr. Stef's results though?

I see on the JREF forum these Knox supporters always say Dr. Stef is not a real doctor, no PhD. I don't think that really matters but does she not have a PhD? I couldn't find anything when I looked on Google.
It is funny because I don't think most of them know anything about DNA but they always say that she did not show her work.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Patricia Cornwell is a big supporter of John Douglas.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

KingSlayer wrote:
Hi guys

I have a few questions.

Did Hampikian declare Knox innocent or just that the DNA evidence does not convict her? It seems irresponsible for him to declare her innocent across the board, in his professional role. It seems like an expert would abstain from talking about an ongoing legal case that he has not been called to testify in, regardless.
I thought that I read on True Justice that he was one of them scientists who confirmed Dr. Stef's results though?

I see on the JREF forum these Knox supporters always say Dr. Stef is not a real doctor, no PhD. I don't think that really matters but does she not have a PhD? I couldn't find anything when I looked on Google.
It is funny because I don't think most of them know anything about DNA but they always say that she did not show her work.



I am not sure if Greg Hampikian ever said he believed her to be innocent, but it is implied. He made statements to be "surprised" and "shocked" over the annulment of Hellman's acquittal.

Either way, I find his involvement unprofessional regardless.

The Machine has written an excellent article on TJMK about Greg Hampikian.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox has a message for Ryan Ferguson: :roll:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=616928615030006&id=270758032980401

Ryan Ferguson Juror 'Sorry' For 2005 Murder Conviction
Nov. 13, 2013
By Lauren Effron

In 2005, a jury convicted Ferguson, then just 19 years old, of brutally murdering Columbia Daily Tribune sports editor Kent Heitholt in the Tribune parking lot on Halloween night 2001. ...Ferguson was sentenced to 40 years in prison.

None of the DNA collected at the scene -- the footprints and fingerprints -- matched Ferguson's, but the jury decided that testimony from Charles Erickson, one of Ferguson's classmates who claimed they had murdered Heitholt together, and Jerry Trump, a janitor who identified Ferguson as one of the two men he saw in the parking lot after the murder, was enough to convict him.


ABC NEWS
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

And while Patrizia Stefanoni is not to my knowledge a PhD her lab is fully accredited according to European standards and all the courts, including Hellman, accepted her credentials at trial. It's a bit late except at JREF, it seems, to challenge that. Meredith's DNA is on the knife, and Raffaele's on the bra clasp. No matter that so many PhD's say otherwise:-)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Part 3 of MisterPink's summary of the Giallo interview is HERE.
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Offline KingSlayer


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
And while Patrizia Stefanoni is not to my knowledge a PhD her lab is fully accredited according to European standards and all the courts, including Hellman, accepted her credentials at trial. It's a bit late except at JREF, it seems, to challenge that. Meredith's DNA is on the knife, and Raffaele's on the bra clasp. No matter that so many PhD's say otherwise:-)


Yeah I always associated PhD's more with research/academic jobs anyway. I was curious because I always see Dr. used in front of her name and I would have thought she did have the PhD.

It's funny how they say she doesn't know what she is doing when she obtained a perfect match for the victim's DNA profile with a small sample.
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Offline KingSlayer


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
KingSlayer wrote:
Hi guys

I have a few questions.

Did Hampikian declare Knox innocent or just that the DNA evidence does not convict her? It seems irresponsible for him to declare her innocent across the board, in his professional role. It seems like an expert would abstain from talking about an ongoing legal case that he has not been called to testify in, regardless.
I thought that I read on True Justice that he was one of them scientists who confirmed Dr. Stef's results though?

I see on the JREF forum these Knox supporters always say Dr. Stef is not a real doctor, no PhD. I don't think that really matters but does she not have a PhD? I couldn't find anything when I looked on Google.
It is funny because I don't think most of them know anything about DNA but they always say that she did not show her work.



I am not sure if Greg Hampikian ever said he believed her to be innocent, but it is implied. He made statements to be "surprised" and "shocked" over the annulment of Hellman's acquittal.

Either way, I find his involvement unprofessional regardless.

The Machine has written an excellent article on TJMK about Greg Hampikian.


Thanks for the link, that was interesting. He's actually worse than I thought, similar to Steve Moore. It wouldn't be that surprising to learn that he took money to talk up Knox's innocence. Or maybe he is just like Bill Williams on JREF and almost every conviction is a wrongful conviction. :)
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Offline jape


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

There's no way that these are Knox and Sollecito. They are lookalikes. The British tabloids sometimes use lookalikes for the Royal Family. Is this what Italian popular media culture has come to? Knox and Sollecito treated as royalty? Ugh!


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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers.
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers.
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers.
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers.
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers.
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers.
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was just like Knox & Sollecito , no different to many convicted killers


In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers.
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers.
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers.
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted killers.
In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was no different to many convicted k
I wonder if this is clear

In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was just like Knox & Sollecito , no different to many convicted killers

In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was just like Knox & Sollecito , no different to many convicted killers

In maintaining his innocence during his time in prison, Simon Hall was just like Knox & Sollecito , no different to many convicted killers

I like poetry

honour
brave
it's just me
your poor taxes you poor citizens
wouldn't it be better to save money
our love was as an unopened flower that smelt like shit

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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

KingSlayer wrote:
Ergon wrote:
And while Patrizia Stefanoni is not to my knowledge a PhD her lab is fully accredited according to European standards and all the courts, including Hellman, accepted her credentials at trial. It's a bit late except at JREF, it seems, to challenge that. Meredith's DNA is on the knife, and Raffaele's on the bra clasp. No matter that so many PhD's say otherwise:-)


Yeah I always associated PhD's more with research/academic jobs anyway. I was curious because I always see Dr. used in front of her name and I would have thought she did have the PhD.

It's funny how they say she doesn't know what she is doing when she obtained a perfect match for the victim's DNA profile with a small sample.


It is common usage in Italy for anyone with a University degree or professional accreditation to be assigned the honorific Dottore, and we at PMF have been following what is reported in Italian media. I don't even know whether Giuliano Mignini has a PhD, and we write about him as Dottore Mignini or Publicco Ministero Mignini. Simple sign of respect, to follow the usage of the culture we are reporting on, as opposed to imposing our own :)
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
It is common usage in Italy for anyone with a University degree or professional accreditation to be assigned the honorific Dottore, and we at PMF have been following what is reported in Italian media. I don't even know whether Giuliano Mignini has a PhD, and we write about him as Dottore Mignini or Publicco Ministero Mignini. Simple sign of respect, to follow the usage of the culture we are reporting on, as opposed to imposing our own :)


I am not really sure but I believe that Germany does not recognize Ph.D. degrees awarded by universities not recognized by Germany!

Sometime back I reviewed one Ph.D. dissertation from Italy and the candidate had more than twice (relative to me!) the number of publications!

As Ergon says, it is simply a good habit of showing respect and getting respect.

But why this question comes up here now?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

@chami, Kingslayer asked the question pertaining to what JREF is talking about, I believe.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox has a message for Ryan Ferguson: :roll:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=616928615030006&id=270758032980401

Ryan Ferguson Juror 'Sorry' For 2005 Murder Conviction
Nov. 13, 2013
By Lauren Effron

In 2005, a jury convicted Ferguson, then just 19 years old, of brutally murdering Columbia Daily Tribune sports editor Kent Heitholt in the Tribune parking lot on Halloween night 2001. ...Ferguson was sentenced to 40 years in prison.

None of the DNA collected at the scene -- the footprints and fingerprints -- matched Ferguson's, but the jury decided that ...


ABC NEWS


Wow at thinking footprints and fingerprints are "DNA." Every day their journalism situation gets worse than the day before.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

@tait, Mr. Pink, sallyoo, at Dot Org, the defense computer hard drive report is here, and a great translation it is too. http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/D ... t_(English)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just tweeted by Nina Burleigh: :roll:

ninaburleigh ‏@ninaburleigh 5m

Quote:
@1pcornwell [Patricia Cornwell] agrees with me. She must have read my book.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

(( OT OT ))

An off-topic that is not only very interesting, but also a cautionary tale against the blanket application of "common sense" in all situations as a result of an assumption by logical and practical minds that "common sense" is a defacto universal law for problem solving and understanding key elements. To ever go against common sense in any situation would be bad wisdom. For example, were I wishing to treat skin inflammation issues such as sunburn, radiation damage or aging, the last thing I would do is consider applying bleach to my skin, that wouldn't be common sense. But, I would be dead wrong!!!:


Inflammatory skin damage in mice blocked by bleach solution, study finds

MEDICAL XPRESS

Sometimes, "common sense" can lead you in the wrong direction, for apparent common sense applied at certain times isn't common sense at all when there is a gap in key knowledge and one is unaware such a gap exists.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

KingSlayer wrote:
Hi guys

I have a few questions.

Did Hampikian declare Knox innocent or just that the DNA evidence does not convict her? It seems irresponsible for him to declare her innocent across the board, in his professional role. It seems like an expert would abstain from talking about an ongoing legal case that he has not been called to testify in, regardless.
I thought that I read on True Justice that he was one of them scientists who confirmed Dr. Stef's results though?

I see on the JREF forum these Knox supporters always say Dr. Stef is not a real doctor, no PhD. I don't think that really matters but does she not have a PhD? I couldn't find anything when I looked on Google.
It is funny because I don't think most of them know anything about DNA but they always say that she did not show her work.



Yes, he has several times stated his conclusion that Knox and Sollecito are completely innocent. His basis for this conclusion, is his stated opinions on the unreliability of the DNA evidence against them. In his walled up little mind, the clasp and knife are unreliable (which he's wrong about) and the knife and clasp are the ONLY evidence against the pair...or to listen to him, one would think there's no other evidence against them, as he completely ignores it all as if it doesn't exist. And indeed, this Hampikian mindset was introduced from the get-go of the annulled appeal to provide a strategy and excuse for Hellmann to acquit. Pretend to give the knife and clasp an apparently impartial examination that was always rigged to exclude them, which would then provide Hellmann with a justification for then simply fobbing all of the other evidence with wrong headed and illogical argument, misrepresentation and in the case of some, completely ignoring it. Hellmann's underlying attitude seemed to be that, were the knife and bra clasp shown to be valid (which he knew right from the start was never going to happen due to the plan put in place to sabotage any chance that would happen), then he would then need to look at the other evidence and treat it rather more seriously. But since everything went as planned, this gave him the right to approach all the other evidence with cynical contempt.

The whole slagging down of Dr Stefanoni by stating she has no PhD is a nonsense and dishonest. The fact is, the Italian Higher Education system is as different to ours as their legal system is and as such, is wrongly measuring apples against pears. Pre-2001, NOBODY graduated from Italian universities with PhD's or Masters as they did not exist. Instead, Italians took qualifications which Italy recognised as broadly, just as prestigeous and qualified. That's right, not even Italian medical doctors, prior to 2001, had PhD's...I suppose that means that all Italian medical doctors graduated pre-2001 aren't really doctors? But it would appear, from the whole of Italy, Dr Stefanoni is being singled out as a case of someone uniquely under qualified in comparison to everyone else there. Dr Stefanoni is just as qualified as her contemporaries in countries such as the UK and US, her qualifications just have different names. Indeed, my Italian girlfriend who came to study at two universities in the UK told me that it's actually much tougher to graduate from Italian universities then UK ones, as their courses are harder and more demanding and this is a fact of common knowledge in Italy. PhD's and Masters were introduced in 2001, I imagine, to standardise with other leading nations so as to prevent just this kind of international confusion.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Just tweeted by Nina Burleigh: :roll:

ninaburleigh ‏@ninaburleigh 5m

Quote:
@1pcornwell [Patricia Cornwell] agrees with me. She must have read my book.



I can't stand that woman, she's just like Knox..."Wherever possible, let's make this all about ME!"

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Patricia Cornwell may believe that it was a lone assailant , but at least she delves into the reasons for delayed digestion. Chris Halides has refused to acknowledge that stress can halt digestion. He tries to pin Meredith's death to just after 9 to exclude Amanda and Sollecito. Even a nasty argument can seriously disrupt the process. So Chris and followers at JREFp hope you read this.



Well, our Max wrote a very competent report of why the stomach content argument being used to place Meredith's TOD at a time favourable to the defence is complete bunk, since simply put, whilst it cannot be used to demonstrate Meredith died at the times either the Massei or Guede's courts concluded, it for exactly the same reasons, cannot be used to claim a TOD argued either by the defence, or by the loony logically challenged FOAKers (read whole thread): The Mystery of the Empty Duodenum SOLVED

I think Cornwell needs to read it too!

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
@tait, Mr. Pink, sallyoo, at Dot Org, the defense computer hard drive report is here, and a great translation it is too. http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/D ... t_(English)


The page appears empty. Is the link broken?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Ergon wrote:
@tait, Mr. Pink, sallyoo, at Dot Org, the defense computer hard drive report is here, and a great translation it is too. http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/D ... t_(English)


The page appears empty. Is the link broken?



We have it here, I believe. I think it's the same: KNOX DEFENCE TECHNICAL REPORT ON THE COMPUTERS

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
chami wrote:
Ergon wrote:
@tait, Mr. Pink, sallyoo, at Dot Org, the defense computer hard drive report is here, and a great translation it is too. http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/D ... t_(English)


The page appears empty. Is the link broken?



We have it here, I believe. I think it's the same: KNOX DEFENCE TECHNICAL REPORT ON THE COMPUTERS

Here's the correct link : http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Defence_Computer_Expert_Report_(English)
The link quoted above was missing the close parenthesis.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Has everyone seen this photo gallery?

Sollecito in Florence, lunch with journalist Mario Spezi (7 photos)

QUOTIDIANO.NET

I wonder why this one-on-one meeting and what they were discussing over lunch? The two chaperones -- Papà Sol and the family lawyer -- are nowhere to be seen....
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Secret U.S. Forensic Defense of Amanda Knox
Update: Nov. 15, 2013
By Andrea Vogt

Since the story below was originally published a number of legal experts and concerned taxpayers have contacted me about the rejection of my public records request to Boise State University in 2012 for information clarifying the university’s role in the Amanda Knox defense and acquittal. The request revolved around the undisclosed research / communications of BSU forensic biologist Greg Hampikian, a professor who often consults for defense teams on DNA evidence reliability (Last week Hampikian was arguing the reliability of DNA evidence that convicted a man for the 1988 murder of 12-year-old Sarah Cherry in Maine. He has consulted on a variety of murder cases, as detailed in the story below).


THE FREELANCE DESK
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Most of Knox's supporters I have been unable to view as anything other than unpleasant people, and people who all seem to fit into one box, that of being small-minded, additionally in relation to that type of mindedness or actual lack of mindfulness, this characterised by then not protesting on Knox's behalf on the basis of truth, kindness, reality, but in line with a type of village-like insular mind-state, that of they are all out to get us, those foreigners, that black one, those criminals, our wholesome home girl, our nice studenty girl, our scholar, our good girl, our right to speak as though each nation outside of America is more or less illiterate, uneducated, primitive, stupid, especially Italy, carrying out torture, this all being described or influenced by a type of thinking that would make one imagine those saying it just got out of a 4-day film viewing of 1952, all about the Romans and the Christians, and these being unable to determine where Italy actually is, asking mom:
Mom, where is this place Italy? is that near China? I never wanna go there, you should see that film.
Yes son but this is not a Roman era and Italy had the first university in the world dear.
Oh mom, thank you for telling me this, I thought they were all blue-painted huns.
Yes dear, their engineering is some of the best in the world, everything they do, they never do in a mediocre way whether that being hatred like that of fascists, or being kind, there is in Italy no middle line, they are not fickle [Old English ficol deceitful; related to fician to wheedle, befician to deceive] that way, nor whimsical, that is an extreme but that is just the way it is.
Wow mom you seem to know a lot. Yes, I know a bit as I lived there, studied in Rome and it was the most fantastic time or my life.
Huh, why didn't you say mom as I thought they were barbarians, savages.
Don't be ridiculous son, that film from 1952 produced by Marriot, co-produced by General Ham, and funded by TV news media advertising, etc, is not reality son, did I tell you, did I ever explain how things work in this world, where some would murder their own mothers if they could get a few bucks out of it.
Mom, you use heavy expressions, is life realy as cheap as all that?
For some it is son, because they have a type of communal, well not really communal, but think unconsciously in terms of tiny areas of the planet, they have a fixation with it, where they are afraid of the rest of the planet, seem to think being born on any particular little spot, after all little spot is what is it for anyone where they get born, gives them an identity, once which they can use to pretend to themselves that they, because of the location of birth can say I belong, I belong here because I is born here.
Mom, why you talking like one of those people from Georgia.
Well, I lived there too son, I've been all over.
Yes mom, it sounds like it you know shit heaps. I'm beginning to think my view may have been warped by these few chameleon-looking spider web weavers, why would they misinform me so?
As I said son if you'd just let me finish and stop interrupting all the time, They gots born on da part of the planet there, that pin-prick sized area, and then they say, I is proud to BE AMERICAN, others say French, Italian, British, but what they do not seem to get is that simply being born some place doesn't qualify them for the title of person that actually achieved anything, so in actual fact, being proud of where you popped into the world is no basis for forming an understanding of who you are and what you are supposed to be doing here as long as you get to/and to the extent you get to live your life out.
Ya see, seeing things that way is the very reason people have to, or think they have to, go around waving flags, like a bunch of numpties they do not SEE, that the basis of their xenophobia is the cause of most of the suffering on this planet. And the suffering is not limited to just their 1-foot area of getting-borned-ness, back then whenever it was.

Mom, you sure have some kind of wider view of stuff... can ya teach me? as I do not want to be looking through a keyhole at the world all my life.

Well son, you'll just need to finish up your school and proceed to university, go to Italy and spend some time absorbing thousands of years of civilization, you will learn so very many things at so many different levels, seen from so many real angles, and get a sense of where we are now, where we are headed and why, in relation to all that has been.
Mom, I think that film I watched was pretty crap, and to think all of those people so not support a high ethic approach to life but a narrow-minded insular fear-mongering way, who could know?
Well son, I know and now you do but you need to open you own eyes so you can come up with your own insights.
Yes as I said, I do not want to be looking at things in life with one eye and closing the other to what is pertinently invaluable for understanding what is seen with the good eye, the one that is absorbing impressions and light n dark and all of that material in the world.

That's exactly it ya see son, that material is what drives the xenophobic too, inasmuch as they live for that stuff, they think their value can be translated to a chunk of metal placed on a mantelpiece, what they have they want to protect, in that way they do not control creation and destruction of the solid objects, all of that what people work for, and rightly, to be able to live together harmoniously in comfort, to have medicine, acquirement of valuable knowledge, it's all part of the human process of development, as I said, rightly, but it is not as though this same stuff is on the other hand like an untameable quantity, you'll die just as we all will, and none of what you achieved or possessed is going to be placed with you in your coffin, so what is truly valuable? if you live your life as a slave rather than the master of your own destiny and with your own capacity to experience reality and whatever it be, exist in a state of meaningfulness, surely if you live only to obtain and will lie and cheat to protect your 10 mile circle of co-happened-to-get-born-on-this-here-pinhead of a village associates, you call YOURS, MINE, OURS and US you will not really be alive?

Mom that sure is some scary shit to take in maybe I might prefer to stay asleep and just stay at home, take a holiday down the end of the garden, in a tent, so nobody can arrest me for murder, because if I go travelling surely they will call me a liar and say I'm a murderer.

Of course they won't and don't, it's just that America is not the only spot on the planet where rules have been drawn up to protect ourselves from ourselves and others, so that we can call ourselves societies within the framework of the concept of civilization. Let me explain those last two important words, societies, well society comes from the root of the word which is social, in fact the word is derived from Latin, meaning to be open to others, as opposed to being selfish, self-centred and closed to others, so this means that to be social one has to place oneself between others in a give and take fashion, you work out how you can be receptive to what others say, and you learn to listen well, and you speak taking other people into account, you do not speak as if you are the only one to get born onto a pin-prick sized spot on the earth. That way son, you can like other people and be liked too.

Take this down son:
Middle English social, domestic, from Old French social, from Latin socilis, of companionship, from socius, companion; see sekw-1 in Indo-European roots.],

it's part of your homework.
Homework? Mom I got tons of that already.
Yeah son but that nonsense they teach you at school may not help you to have an open view of the world since most schools are funded by people who uphold their own vision of the world, if I had the money I'd have you taken right out of there, it's a waste of time, they are basically brainwashing you.
Mom, you sure have some radical thinking going on.

Yes I have, now get this, the next concept is civilization and how that ties into the societies which are maybe as regards size, not so much pins and stakes in the wider picture --which is all of the societies round the world that make up what humans try to achieve, somewhere, somehow and that is this thing called being civil or civilization, civilization is-- as much as the stakes/the great big pins that are all stuck into the pin cushion called the world, oops I mean civilization.

Can I go now mom, this is giving me a headache.

No son, you will take all this down because I do not want you to become a brainwashed robot and miss out on your real opportunity to get ahead, get ahead means you only have this life and you never know when you'll be stepping out of it, so do not waste your time thinking shit and talking it either, all of this so that you have a guideline and will know how to interact and get the most out of life without being fooled or have the wool pulled over your eyes, so, civilization, civil, it all ties into the other concept that thing called being social, which means of course you cannot go around getting angry at others and when you do not get your way you just take em out.

Take em out mom? where? to a restaurant?

No son, that you stick a knife in your FRIENDS and murder them, or shoot them dead, 5 bullets in the head.

Damn mom I better not eat any cheese now, it's almost my bedtime and Imma gonna have nightmares.
You are not allowed to go to bed before I say.

Mom are you a dictator?

No son I love you and care about you, I'm kind and fair. Now stop interrupting, civilization and civil, civility, new words soin for you and your vocabulary but understanding where these words come fron and why is more important than just learning them like a dumb parrot: civ·il (svl)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or befitting a citizen or citizens: civil duties.

2. Of or relating to citizens and their interrelations with one another or with the state: civil society; the civil branches of government.

3. Of ordinary citizens or ordinary community life as distinguished from the military or the ecclesiastical: civil authorities.

4. Of or in accordance with organized society; civilized.

5. Sufficiently observing or befitting accepted social usages; not rude: a civil reply. See Synonyms at polite.

6. Being in accordance with or denoting legally recognized divisions of time: a civil year.

7. Law Relating to the rights of private individuals and legal proceedings concerning these rights as distinguished from criminal, military, or international regulations or proceedings.

[Middle English, from Latin cvlis, from cvis, citizen; see civic.]

civil·ly adv.

Now son I want you to tell me an important thing about the origins of these words?????
Waiting....
Is it because they all sound strange mom.
Waiting......
I don't know mom you tell me!!!
Well dear, they are very old, they were used thousands of years ago in one form or another to represent certain ideas/concepts, and the place this all went down was not here in America because our history is derived from the European and is only a few hundred years old, and has its own value as such/has iyts palce along with its contributions, but it is derived from Latin and Greek (and Arabic among others) which is from thousands of years ago, because a very, very long time ago, those peoples, that used those languages, were very powerful in that they developed the very notion of something like the thing called a concept, concept is a Greek invention, the word for it.
Wow, so that means these ancient places have an ongoing importance that could never be and should never be denied by anyone aiming to be realistic about human history and development. Son, you are beginning to warm the cockles of my heart, please do continue with your hypotheses of the world as viewed in your slowly unmuddying eyeballs.
Er, okay mom, then, er, then certain behavioural traits may be deeply embedded, not just in the familial, and gene pools and so on and so forth but in a people itself, through thousands of years of history and the experiences people underwent when trying to live with one another, or not trying at all instead just trying to subject others to whims and fancies and anger, so where certain people say that to live together people must work out rules applicable to everyone, or it means not just those who are horrible will get to kill whoever they want to, but those who kill other people may end up dead too and have their own loved ones murdered, brutalised, and so obviously nobody at all will, in the wider picture, be able to exist that way.
And even when the rules were worked out some just did not work and some favoured a certain section in a community and disadvantaged others, and this shit is still going on now mom. And the development of ways with which to get along, rules for it, are still being developed, in accordance with what life is right now.

Listen son I do not mind you getting animated whilst expounding your theories but I cannot accept you swearing.

Huh, but you swear ALL THE TIME MOM!!!
Mmmm, yes but I have a right to, because you kids make me do it, I never used to swear before I had you.
Listen mom, you are trying to teach me about right and wrong behaviour, but don't you think that's unfair to me?

No I do not son, I'm the boss here if you don't like it get your own house.

Mom, I'm only 10 years old.

I don't care, you come in here expounding all your theories, at me.

No mom you said I ain't feeding you today if you don't listen to my rules and ideas.

No I did not, I said I loved you and that's why I had to keep you up till 11 at night learning.

Well there is a word I learned that I didn't tell you about, AND THAT'S DEMOCRACY.

Democracy???????????? Ah come on, I am being democratic to you son, I am not subjecting you to any tyrannical behavioural traits that I am unable to free myself from, you are free to choose son, basically, you can stay or get out of here.

[Child starts to cry] You are confuuuuuuuuuusing me mom.

I know son I was doing it on purpose to get the most out of you, see, this is why we don't need, we do not need people talking nonsense and forcing their will on others in a way that allows no open and free thinking, based on sound reasoning and simple logic, 1 and 1 = 2.

Ah I get it now, you mean you think those people who support Knox have no real idea of the world, are shallow, and are actually people who live in fear because they have a surrogate sense of identity that takes no account of the pins in the universe and the cushion of common sense/civilization.

You can go to bed now son, you did good.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

sherrel wrote:
Michael wrote:
chami wrote:
Ergon wrote:
@tait, Mr. Pink, sallyoo, at Dot Org, the defense computer hard drive report is here, and a great translation it is too. http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/D ... t_(English)


The page appears empty. Is the link broken?



We have it here, I believe. I think it's the same: KNOX DEFENCE TECHNICAL REPORT ON THE COMPUTERS

Here's the correct link : http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Defence_Computer_Expert_Report_(English)
The link quoted above was missing the close parenthesis.


Thanks for fixing that, sherrel :oops:
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I think there are people coming here and onto the mirrored site .org, and knowing they cannot normally get to stay, they are coming out with a different approach where they'll say everyone knows what Ham says is nonsense, but .... then they go on to list things in a way that is unacceptable as a scenario by anyone who has really followed this case and is not being brainwashed by the American media influenced by Marriot. In this way, they gradually sow discord amongst people and get people, they hope, to change their views on issues like the knife and whether or not it was the murder weapon, so to achieve this, they decided it is better to say Ham is crap (as it is more important to get a foot in the door) and they know it will not matter saying such things about Ham or someone else) on sites like this and .org since everyone else says the same already, so I think that the idea is to agree with people, sympathise, but then cause arguments about the knife, etc., and bring up and put forward other ridiculous theories once more, this is a way, they've obviously decided, that they can still use to influence/force things.

It's been done here too, but here mostly none of the would-be infiltrators went as far as saying yeah Sfarzo is bad or what Ham says is rubbish, they just said yes, I understand how you feel and I think she is guilty too but....

Then mostly they couldn't control what they were up to for long and just stood out as being fake.


That Paxton is weird, it was me who made up the name Mad Pax but I never meant it as a compliment, I just saw that she adopted that name; how nuts is that, DUH.

No wonder she is Knox's best mate, she is just as thick.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The funniest one was the guy that claimed he just came back from a 2 week vacation and had nothing better to do then to read on this case. Or all the ones that claimed just to have read about this case and then come up with a list of detailed questions. And of course always jump on a forum that has been around for years with a bunch posts that flood the forum telling others how to think. Ok, maybe now they try some other approach. Who cares. I have no idea what the 'fun' is in that. It is not going to change this trial.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Oh I remember the empty duodenum :) Whatever happened with that 'absolute proof' that Meredith was killed at exactly 9pm because it is so normal to walk around with a full stomach for 3 hours? I still think Meredith ate a bit shortly before she was killed. I also still think that it was Knox on CCTV at 8:41pm. This fits exactly with her admission in her 1:45am statement.

Quote:
Last Thursday 1st November, day on which I usually work, while I was in the apartment of my boyfriend Raffaele, at about 20.30 I received a message from Patrick on my mobile, telling me that that evening the pub would remain closed because there were no people, therefore I didn't have to go to work. I replied to the message saying that we would meet immediately, therefore I went out telling my boyfriend that I had to go to work.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/A ... _Statement

Knox confesses she initially went out alone, but she lies to Sollecito or maybe she meant that she intended to go to her working place to meet 'some friends' as Sollecito stated. (I find it a bit hard to imagine that Sollecito would just stay home.)

Quote:
At 9 pm I went home alone and Amanda said that she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/R ... %27s_Alibi

She then left right after the Polish student had stopped by, and we see Knox by herself on the CCTV images.

Speculating a bit. Maybe the night started normal, but at 9pm Meredith shows up, and Knox possibly already let Guede in. Guede tells of a whole conversation he had with Meredith, and maybe they even had some food. So maybe things were still normal until Sollecito showed up who must have been angry and things went downhill. Maybe there is even some truth in the fight Guede said he had with Sollecito. Somehow (probably thanks to Knox) the guys found a common 'enemy' that brought them together, and Meredith ended up on the receiving end.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Madison Paxton still believes the following: Madison Paxton Twitter Debate

Quote:
Ach, can't let this one fly, then for reals i'm out. It was literally an all-night interrogation. 10:30pm-5:45am.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, max. I'm not sure that was Amanda Knox on the video at 8:41 PM +- 10minutes. Stocky person, a man, I thought, about 5'7" and she's 5'4", and wearing light coloured trousers while she was supposedly wearing jeans that night? Too fuzzy to make a positive ID, plus the natural approach for anyone coming from Corso Garibaldi, Piazza Grimana or Rudy's kabab place would be down the steps by the basketball court. The way down the ramp would only make sense for someone who'd parked their car on the upper parking area and making their way down. Just my opinion, of course.

ETA: Keeping in mind that Jovana Popovic (I believe that's Serbian) saw her at Raffaele's place around 8:40 PM.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Ergon. 8:41pm is included the 10 mins fast. The clock showed 8:51pm. I understand this is not evidence, but I don't really see a stocky person in that white figure. Let alone any specific height.

Is it necessary to cross the street right away after coming down the stairs, or could she have stayed on that side of the street a bit first and then crossed later? On the video it all seems very close, and maybe it just looks as if she comes down from the upper park area. IMO it makes more sense if you come down from the park area you would end up right at the gate, and not take 4 or 5 steps on that side of the street. Certainly if there isn't any traffic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t40UB94-n7c).

The white 'pants' is the white skirt you see her wearing the next day IMO. You can even see the strap of her bag. I think that after work was cancelled she went to the cottage to change clothes. I am not aware that anybody indicated what clothes she was wearing that night. I remember the supermarket guy said she wore jeans but that was the next morning but yet we see her again in that white skirt in the afternoon. So she must have changed out of the jeans, which is understandable after the murder. The white skirt was probably the first thing available in her room since she just changed out of those the night before.

We don't know when exactly she bumped into Guede. It could have been earlier. I remember cell phone data indicated that Knox was outside when she received the text message at 8:18pm. Popovic said indeed around 8:40pm which doesn't mean it was exactly 8:40pm. How long is that walk? I remember SomeAlibi showed it was about 5-7 minutes? As Knox said, she told 'Patrick' they would meet 'immediately' after she replied at 8:30pm and so she left Rafaelle. Seems to me that could fit exactly with Knox leaving right after Popovic came by. Either way, who else could it have been?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tH-klo4nGQ
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
I think there are people coming here and onto the mirrored site .org, and knowing they cannot normally get to stay, they are coming out with a different approach where they'll say everyone knows what Ham says is nonsense, but .... then they go on to list things in a way that is unacceptable as a scenario by anyone who has really followed this case and is not being brainwashed by the American media influenced by Marriot. In this way, they gradually sow discord amongst people and get people, they hope, to change their views on issues like the knife and whether or not it was the murder weapon, so to achieve this, they decided it is better to say Ham is crap (as it is more important to get a foot in the door) and they know it will not matter saying such things about Ham or someone else) on sites like this and .org since everyone else says the same already, so I think that the idea is to agree with people, sympathise, but then cause arguments about the knife, etc., and bring up and put forward other ridiculous theories once more, this is a way, they've obviously decided, that they can still use to influence/force things.

It's been done here too, but here mostly none of the would-be infiltrators went as far as saying yeah Sfarzo is bad or what Ham says is rubbish, they just said yes, I understand how you feel and I think she is guilty too but....

Then mostly they couldn't control what they were up to for long and just stood out as being fake.


That Paxton is weird, it was me who made up the name Mad Pax but I never meant it as a compliment, I just saw that she adopted that name; how nuts is that, DUH.

No wonder she is Knox's best mate, she is just as thick.


Mad Max Pax meets Foxxy Knoxy ... sounds like a match made in the world of Women Knowing Women.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
The funniest one was the guy that claimed he just came back from a 2 week vacation and had nothing better to do then to read on this case. Or all the ones that claimed just to have read about this case and then come up with a list of detailed questions. And of course always jump on a forum that has been around for years with a bunch posts that flood the forum telling others how to think. Ok, maybe now they try some other approach. Who cares. I have no idea what the 'fun' is in that. It is not going to change this trial.


Exactly, and, those introductions, and I never introduce myself, even if it is the so-called done thing, seem like they are taken out of he Infiltrator's Handbook, hello I'm new to the case, I don't know a thing... then as you described Max, but ....
then name something that cionnects to a hundred other things and getting carried away, usually, they always forget their own introduction, arguing like someone go is well-aware of every single thing in the case, except for the truth, and maybe they are aware of that too, but refuse not to have any of it.

One of the funniest you named, one of the worst I'd say, was, because of those who welcomed him and made excuses for him, was this Donny character, there was Bard for instance saying be nice and talking all wabbity and soft and she herself is a very likeable person I always thought only this seemed srtuff made her seem so naive.
Later on of course it came out just what type of person this man was, a sex fixated idiot who couldn't care less about the murder, all as he cared about is that he was using Knox as a source of sexual stimulation, fantasising about her or something or other, and that then with him was enough to make him not care at all what happened to Meredith, who in the process was left bereft and destroyed through losing Meredith.
People like him, I only need to listen to a minute, and it is clear what they are about, if you were being kind you would not say the kind of stuff he did, it was too much right from the start.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Max on the go out alone; I think it may not have been so much GONE OUT, that way, but gone out on the way, to get ready for work so maybe a stop off at her own residence before heading for work she may then have received a call not to come in while she was on foot heading for her own home then bumped into Guede.

It's not as though she was engaged to be married to Sollecito, I imagine she may have been offf the type of disposition where she went head-on into adventure, etc, and did she really feel such loyalty to Sollecito after a few days, what was she at home making his dinner as the clock struck 6 each evening like an old-fashioned wife? I don't think so, even though Sollecito tried to portray them as this ideal couple, his first love, the flower that they represented that was crushed by the evil system of law, yes Sollecito that system of law was specifically designed with you in mind long before you were born for they knew you was the chosen one, chosen to be persecuted you idiot, persecuted, at my age where hair shifts from where it is supposed to be to some odd locations I've seen and heard it all now. Persecution, this person is so deluded and his ego so over-inflated there's no space for anyone else in the room. And let's suppose for a minute that the scenario where she heads home to get ready for a few hours work and where she bumps into Guede takes him along and somehow later Sollecito gets involved by helping her but did not witness the murder, what kind of wicked twat would that make him to speak of honour in protecting what he knows is a murderess?

For that, he should, according to my book, get an even longer spell in prison than her, if it were true.

Sollecito, I think, spent his time on that island rehearsing his courtroom speech, because though it is called a spontaneous speech, it is nothing other than a speech, in the courtroom setting then, where he knew he would not get pulled up or stopped or cross-examined, so he visualised on that island, how he should present his face, and have his attitude come across, he listed the catch-lines he wanted to embellish the whole with and practices, yet it still sounded like a bunch of shit to me, I mean you could come in after a walk in the Artic, freezing your hands and feet off and pretend you are not cold, but only the blind would not see the cold and that's the way I see his guilt, it is written all over him, you just cannot hide it because being able to see it is something human beings should be able to do since through thousands of years of evolution we developed instincts that ring bells that kind of switches off to the spiel that is being said and then we only hear that tone, the overriding one, and it is telling us something very different to the act, some people are so far from nature they've never learned this ability to listen to their own inner voice warning and protecting them, but not everyone has lost it, others simply choose to drown it.


Spiel

/spēl,SHpēl/

informal

noun

noun: spiel; plural noun: spiels

1. a long or fast speech or story, typically one intended as a means of persuasion or as an excuse but regarded with scepticism or contempt by those who hear it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:

Mad Max Pax meets Foxxy Knoxy ... sounds like a match made in the world of Women Knowing Women.


In fact Pax looks like she'd wield an axe for the object of her affection, I say affection because all as I know is, if you happened to be my best friend and there were all kinds of clues, there was all kinds of evidence, all kinds of pointers telling me there is a great likelihood you are a murderer, I don't think I'd be taking photo opportunities with you and then take to wearing a big goofy gormless smile on my boat race that says hey it's kind of funny my best friend is accused of murder, let me turn it into a comedy, hey look at us laughing, serious aren't we, yeah, she spent four years in jail, everyone tried to abuse her, but it's all funny, look how she suffered you can tell by her bloodstained hands how hilarious she thinks it is, I was bored and now I'm famous too, whoopee, my life was empty

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ya know, Spezi, that is yet another individual who suffers from self-grandeur and delusion, how arrogant, and like attracts like again, he pictured in an establishment (restaurant) meeting Sollecito, but did Spezi meet him because he is a citizen wishing to assist Sollecito on the basis of his own balanced thinking and position in life? No, I do not think so somehow, he cares nothing for Sollecito, but refuses to admit he was in the wrong, so where Sollecito speaks deceitfully of feeling persecuted, Spezi actually knows what real persecution is, because he has been persecuting Mr Mignini ever since Spezi got pulled out, as a result of him acting as though he was an estate unto himself, an island in the stream of life where he could be above the law, and not being above the law, well that made him so sore, so much so that he'll do just about anything to get his way, wrote books with another numpty dumpty, who writes made up crime stories then thinks that this makes him into some kind of expert on real crime also with a right to act as though he is above the law and anyone who gets in his way by putting a stop to this by bringing him right back down to earth by making him subject to the laws everyone else is subject to, acts like a spoilt, little whining brat and is vindictive and not at all as one would imagine an intelligent man ought to be and ought to behave, especially a man of some years, it's like the behaviour one might expect from a troublesome adolescent, even an infant, kicking its feet unmanageable for mother but so in a state the tantrum filled child goes on and on until he/she is having an hysterical fit, screaming, shouting, crying, but a man of his age, a journalist, I mean what in hell's name is he up to? He's in trouble himself so sees some kind of connection to Sollecito, trying as he has to turn his own escapades and consequent trouble with the law into something that would be seen, if he had his way and succeeded, as a conspiracy, a persecution, when he was simply out of his realm, he was a journalist who somehow imagined he was police and judge, and forensic analyst, I must say even Sollecito's face looked rather nervous, but then again not, when meeting Spezi, since Sollecito is equally desperate, and will try anything and talk to anyone who praises him and says he is right, etc.

I hope Spezi winds up with a very severe punishment, he deserves it, he has meddled with what is already a very difficult case, and did so to suit his own ends, he has no right to leniency because he has been undermining this case and undermining the judiciary, by defamation, etc.
Only the defamation here is calumnia duties, while he is in the process of being brought to justice, to answer for his behaviour, which already was libellous, etc., some people just do not know when they've gone way too far.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Thanks Ergon. 8:41pm is included the 10 mins fast. The clock showed 8:51pm. I understand this is not evidence, but I don't really see a stocky person in that white figure. Let alone any specific height.

Is it necessary to cross the street right away after coming down the stairs, or could she have stayed on that side of the street a bit first and then crossed later? On the video it all seems very close, and maybe it just looks as if she comes down from the upper park area. IMO it makes more sense if you come down from the park area you would end up right at the gate, and not take 4 or 5 steps on that side of the street. Certainly if there isn't any traffic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t40UB94-n7c).

The white 'pants' is the white skirt you see her wearing the next day IMO. You can even see the strap of her bag. I think that after work was cancelled she went to the cottage to change clothes. I am not aware that anybody indicated what clothes she was wearing that night. I remember the supermarket guy said she wore jeans but that was the next morning but yet we see her again in that white skirt in the afternoon. So she must have changed out of the jeans, which is understandable after the murder. The white skirt was probably the first thing available in her room since she just changed out of those the night before.

We don't know when exactly she bumped into Guede. It could have been earlier. I remember cell phone data indicated that Knox was outside when she received the text message at 8:18pm. Popovic said indeed around 8:40pm which doesn't mean it was exactly 8:40pm. How long is that walk? I remember SomeAlibi showed it was about 5-7 minutes? As Knox said, she told 'Patrick' they would meet 'immediately' after she replied at 8:30pm and so she left Rafaelle. Seems to me that could fit exactly with Knox leaving right after Popovic came by. Either way, who else could it have been?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tH-klo4nGQ


Hi, max,
It is indeed an interesting question. Some Alibi has it right, 5-7 minutes walk. The figure in white crossing in front of the car park is some distance down, but looking at the video, it shows what I believe is a guy, in light coloured trousers, walking down the upper garage ramp. Yes, the figure in white could be Amanda. Some say it was Meredith, in her light blue jacket. That I do not believe.

My estimate of the man's height was based on the bar across the parking lot ramp, it's about 90 cms high (Rough estimate when I walked by) Which is why I do not believe it was Rudy Guede either, since he is 178 cms tall. Another video (Oggi) has him turning slightly so you get a Maghrebi profile, not Central African. I could be mistaken, of course.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I have always seen the person in white skirt, anno 2007 in winter, as being worn by Knox, I mean just what are the chances someone else just happened to be wearing a skirt that looked exactly like that one Knox wore, white, that length, right there on that cold November evening?

Nihil, I would say; a white skirt that length might be seen on different women in the summer, the spring, but in the winter? I just think it is too much of a coincidence.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It certainly wasn't Rudy Guede. The claim by the defence that it was him in the video, is based on the fact that he's wearing the same coat that Rudy was wearing when he was brought back from Germany. The problem with that, was the coat was bought for him by his father as a present when Rudy was in Koblenz prison awaiting extradition.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon...thanks for the Steve Shay piece.

Et al...thanks for working so hard.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It looks like Knox's trophy blog's been taken down: http://www.amandaknox.com/PQijZ/NmcoZ/S ... gOZ/YTjoZ/

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline sherrel


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
It looks like Knox's trophy blog's been taken down: http://www.amandaknox.com/PQijZ/NmcoZ/S ... gOZ/YTjoZ/

Actually, the blog is still there. Your link is to a non-existent page. That's why you got the 'Page Not Found' error. Try http://www.amandaknox.com instead.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

fcuking memoirs, insane

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes and I mean I took a quick peep at that site or whatever it is called, how awful,

in Britain we have a lot of sayings, expressions, etc.,
like you need your head tested,
she's got a screw loose,
he ain't all there,
he's lost his marbles,
she's one slice short of a sandwich,

now if a very ugly baby gets born the midwife may slap the mother's face instead of the baby's bum,
but hey wait,
if reincarnation, let's just say, actually exists,
and someone who is perhaps not as much ugly on the outside as thoroughly ugly on the inside,
dies, it means by dying and stepping out
you step into another world,
so are in a way born there,
so what if this God thing does exist in some way,
and is there at your delivery,
or I don't know,
maybe bad people go direct to hell and the devil is waiting there with a blow torch, anyhow, whichever place you get born into after death,
someone might slap your own face and send you right back to be born as the back end of a cow or something terrible, these things are the insanities looking at that site inspire.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I have been wondering if the prosecution's case was so solid that they didn't bring into play subjects such as the money deposit or the cocaine dealer being called both before and after the murder. Would it be that or did they bring that stuff up at trial and nobody reported any of it? Would it be that both sides agreed not to bring those things up? Did the defense accept that it was true but the prosecution was not going to bring it up publicly????
It seems to me that both AK and RS's defense teams didn't fight the theft charges too hard... that is why I am confused what was up with the deposit.
Groupies absolutely go bonkers over both subjects if you bring them up. It has got to be something IMO.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, dgfred, the links you were looking for the cash deposit are Nell's posts here: viewtopic.php?p=103343#p103343 and viewtopic.php?p=93282#p93282

Charlie Wilkes March 28, 2011
Quote:
I would describe Guede's statements as the lies and conjecture of someone who was trying to talk his way out of trouble. Here are the facts:

Amanda's bank statement shows a number of transactions booked on Monday, Nov. 5, 2007, reflecting transactions from October 31 through the weekend. The entries are denominated in US dollars as it is a US bank statement.

Amanda made a cash withdrawal of $361.54 (250 Euro). She had most or all of this on her person when she was arrested.

She also used her bank card for the Bubble purchases, $62.18. And she made a deposit of $562.00. Her net balance after this activity was $4,465.89.

The bank statement also shows Amanda's spending pattern in the weeks preceding the murder. The pattern is consistent with normal living expenses, not an expensive drug habit. Nobody testified at the trial that Amanda was squandering money on a drug habit, or that she stole from them, or that they were concerned she might steal from them. It is also worth noting that Amanda did not keep all of her savings in her checking account. Her family was holding approximately $9.000 for her, available any time she needed it. She had no need to steal Meredith's rent money. Guede did."


To date, neither Chris Mellas nor Charlie Wilkes has indicated where the deposit of $562 came from. Nell, and so many others, are well within rights to think this was Meredith's stolen rent money, plus whatever was in her purse at that time.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

More of Sollecito's 'fairy tales': full translation of pp.2-3 of the Giallo intreview (partially summarized in MisterPink's posts).

RS continues to give unsolicited advice to the Kerchers on what they should do, think and believe...

P. 2 -->> MENTI INFORMATICHE 2

"I DON’T BLAME AMANDA"

Guede, the judges said, acted ‘in concorso’ [in league with others], that he killed Meredith together with someone. According to you, who are that somebody? "I don’t know. Prosecution believes that the accomplices are me and Amanda, but this hypothesis has been disproved."

Amanda has decided to remain in America. Did you expect that she would come back for the appeal trial? "No. I have never expected it."

Have you ever felt betrayed, or at least left alone, by Amanda? "Let's say that since the beginning of this story I’ve always been on my own, I fought with my family and with my lawyers. With Amanda, there has always been only a friendship, that remains so. But in terms of the case I had to fend for myself."

If you had an opportunity, would you have acted as Amanda, an American? "Yeah, I would not have returned to Italy. I don’t blame her for having remained in America."

But if you were one of Meredith’s relatives, what would you do? "It is very difficult to put myself in their shoes, but for sure if such a thing had happened to my sister I'd have gone mad. That said, after all the pain, the suffering all these years I think there has to be a desire to really understand the truth, the facts, without sticking to accusatory theory, [which is] nothing short of ridiculous. I'm sorry that the family of Meredith is always on the side of those who accuse. I sent several messages to the Kercher family to try to explain the facts to them, but they have never responded."

When was the last time you heard from Amanda? "Sometimes, we communicate, we catch up on how life goes, the family, the university. She is very busy with exams right now. For the rest, it’s up to her, home in Seattle, with family and friends. She is well protected in her "nest" and in her privacy."

You often said that Amanda was your first love, is this true? In the end, one week is a very short time ... "Yes, it is. Although it was a ‘fast’ love, it was really love at first sight. Perhaps, as a twenty-year-old, I had a different attitude towards life. I was very taken up with her: cuddling, washing and drying her hair. And then we did a lot of trips. We had been to Assisi, we should have gone to Gubbio retracing the routes that I had visited with my family. I was also to show it to my father, it would have happened during the celebrations of my graduation. But all that was interrupted by this terrible murder that also destroyed our lives."

You wrote in prison a memorial for your father. You said you couldn’t remember anything. The time that has passed since then has helped you to remember a little more? "I wrote it [memoriale] at a terrible time. I had just been thrown in solitary confinement, subjected to terrible experiences. They left me barefoot in the hallway, I was stripped to undergo a physical exam. And even during the interrogation, I was never put at ease, and it led to foggy memory on the details."

Let's go back to that terrible night. What do you remember? "In the afternoon [of the 1st of November] we had been to Amanda's house. We had lunch and she had practiced her guitar, she was trying to learn some songs of the Beatles. Around 17.30 we went to my house, we watched a movie and then we met a friend of mine who needed a ride to the bus station. We had a snack because Amanda would have had to go to work in Patrick’s bar. Then came a text message, telling her that she was free [for the night].


To be continued...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raffaele Sollecito says in his interview "we did a lot of trips", but I only count one plus one imaginary trip to Gubbio that never happened.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

(cont'd)

P.3 -->> MENTI INFORMATICHE 3

"It made us both happy because we could be together: so we cooked dinner quietly. A fresh sea bass. The recipe calls for potatoes and Amanda had just sliced them with the famous knife that today is evidence against her at the new trial. Then we continued the evening and we hadn't moved [an inch] from my home."

And the next morning? "Amanda had returned to the cottage at about 10 to take a shower, I was left to sleep. When we met again, she told me that something was wrong: she was very upset to have found the door open. We went to the cottage and when I walked in, I realized the mess and the window glass was broken. I immediately thought of a theft."

Some have wondered when Meredith's door was broken open, that you had no curiosity to see what happened to her? "As soon as the door was opened, very strong cries were heard. How do I get to know why, in a time like this? You could hear screams, they all said: “The blood, I see a foot." At that time I just thought to protect Amanda, to bring her out of there immediately. Did not want her to be frightened. I guess I was just meant to be a protective man."

She said you had smoked some pot. Does she not realize that this can make you look like a junkie? "It only happened a few times. But I swear to you: in that period of my life it happened very rarely."

Does she not realize that telling about it may have damaged your image? "The truth is that this news came out after we had been questioned at the police station. At that point I could not do anything but confirm, trying to explain that it was an episodic fact."

Now, is it all finished with joints? "Yes, absolutely."

"IN THE CARIBBEAN LOOKING FOR PEACE"

Have you ever had doubts that people are judged by their appearance in this case? "One suspects they are, but I refuse to believe it. It would be very serious. I ask if whoever did this is worthy of his craft."

Does he think on his part there may have been some error in this complicated story? What went wrong? "I have the impression that those who led the investigation were hit by some attitude, for example the fact that Amanda and I were so united in our nest. Or they relied too much on their ‘gut feelings.’ There were signs that have angered the investigators. And this irritation has turned into a presumption of guilt."

Is it possible that Amanda’s demeanor was damaging in any way? "Surely it hurt me what they thought and still think of Amanda. But I think that’s wrong."

Recently, you have been criticized a lot for your trip to the Caribbean: you went there just at the moment when you were asking for financial help to pay for your defense ... "I made that trip only because I was invited by a dear friend of mine. So I went to the Dominican Republic, where life is much cheaper and where I was a bit 'out of the spotlight.’ I felt fantastic and I made some friends. Some good, others a little less. I refer to some Italians. They took photos [of me] which they then sold to the newspapers and I found myself on trial again, the trial of public opinion."

Have you ever thought you could live in a place so far away? "I don’t rule it out, even though my priority now is to resolve this situation. My life, what it will be, depends on it. Because, at the moment, I don’t have a real life. By the time I finished college, I enrolled at the Faculty of Computer Science in Verona and I’m still missing two exams. Then I'll have to look for a job. I take one step at a time."


(To be continued...)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Statement from Nigel Scott, Lib Dem Councillor in Haringey, London: LondonSupporter » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:12 am Source

Quote:
" I have just seen the comments above. (I am Nigel Scott and I post here as LondonSupporter. I am an advocate for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito because they are innocent and because I am appalled at the travesty of justice that has been visited on them by the Italian legal system and some of its practitioners. Like most people I do other things as well. I have a day job, working for a health charity and I am a local councillor in a London borough (US equivalent = councilman) and a school governor. These are all separate activities but the fact that I may do one does not impinge on the other. What they all have in common is that they involve trying to help people and trying to make a positive difference. Sometimes I have succeeded. I have never mentioned my local government position when campaigning for Amanda and Raffaele nor would I do so. My other activities have been publicised by crazy people following internet searches. They have also sent me emails threatening to 'report me' to the council. Naturally I have advised the council's legal department of their activities.

As an elected councillor I am free to engage in other activities in my spare time as long as I do not bring my office or the council into disrepute. I contend that campaigning for innocent people who have been framed for a crime they had no connection with, is a valid use of my spare time and I do not intend to be intimidated by a bunch of numpties, most of whom are not even prepared to support their beliefs by using their real identities.

This case has been overwhelmed and derailed in part by the activities of haters and I intend to stand for truth for as long as they continue to spread lies."


Aside from the fact I am glad he is finally using his real name, it might be suggested that taking an accused murderer to the gravesite of his victim against the expressed wishes of a grieving UK family is something he has neither excused, nor explained, nor does he seem unable to understand how this might bring his council into disrepute, if anyone were to challenge him on that. Truly, the actions of a "numpty".
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

P.3 (cont'd)

“I DON’T WANT TO BE A FUGITIVE "

You recently stated that life as a fugitive would make life a hell. "Living as a fugitive means staying out of Italy and Europe. Just thinking about it for about five minutes makes me realize that it would be impossible. Also for economic reasons. And it would be a life that I can’t accept.”

Today, who do you really trust? "I trust my father, my family and even myself. I listen to a lot of advice of my father and of my true friends."

Who do you not trust? "Whoever is motivated by self interest. After all, this story does not give you more confidence in everyone."

You say you feel changed today, how do you define it? "I'm more mature, I see life on a larger scale. But I’m not and never will be pessimistic."

Let's go back to your years in prison, what did you think of those four walls? "I spent four years in prison. Nearly six months in solitary confinement and then I was moved to a maximum security institution. They were "precautionary measures" to protect me, they said, but they made me suffer even more. At first I was convinced it was a mistake, that they would realize the mistake and that I would be released. Then, as time went on, I started to get scared. I thought I was living in a surreal film. Slowly I realized it was all true, that my life was over. Finished. And I had to do whatever it took to bring out the truth."

In those terrible moments, what helped you the most? "My family helped me. Although I saw them only six hours a month, their support was crucial."

Your family is definitely important to you. How do you remember your childhood? The child that was Raffaele? "I was quiet, calm, and I wished to please everyone. I played a lot with Spider-Man, with the Transformers and video games. My first PC was the old 286 of my father, which fascinated me so much. Maybe I was more [?]."

As a teenager, how did you change? "My adolescence was not easy. I suffered because of my parents’ separation when I was eight. I was fat and awkward. Then I had to change friends. The elementary and middle school were in Giovinazzo. The high school was in Molfetta. It was a particularly difficult period."

Speaking of friends, have you lost a lot because of this story? "No. All have remained very close, and it's something that surprised me. Not only childhood friends, but also those I met more recently at university, in Perugia or Germany. They asked to see me in prison and never missed the weekly ten-minute phone call to which I was entitled. They went to my house, as provided by law, to be able to talk to me."

About Perugia, why did it occur to you to go and study there? "My father’s idea. There’s a boarding school for the children of doctors. I went to Perugia because I spent less. So before my [high school] graduation I took a vacation in Umbria with my father to see where I was going."

You never regretted this choice? "My father regrets it more than me, to tell the truth. Unfortunately, I experienced a strange, tragic twist of fate."

The ruling is expected by January 10. Do you still believe in justice? "Our system of justice hasn’t shown me any loopholes. But I am confident in the professionalism of the people who have the responsibility to judge me. I have the impression that those who are in the courtroom now know how to listen. At first instance [trial] I had neither voice nor rights."

The absence of Amanda, the fact that the focus is not all on her, is it helping? "Definitely yes. Unfortunately Amanda has an image as a witch. An image projected onto her, and this, as I said, has hurt me too."

What would happen if they were found guilty in this new trial? "Obviously I don't feel like going back to prison, but what choice do I have? I am Italian. If, after this trial, I should be found guilty, I’ll stand in front of the doors of a prison the next day. It would be a huge disappointment, but I would continue to fight. Please, though: I try to not even think about it. I'm a calm and positive person. I am convinced that it will go well."

According to you, if indeed there has never been any evidence, then why have you been on trial? "I think this question should be posed to those who conducted an investigation. Why persecute me and Amanda in spite of all the trials having failed?"

Between now and January 10, what are your plans? "I'll stay here, I have to take the last two university exams. It is a commitment that I want to keep. I promised my dad.”

And then what? “And then you know what I’ve said to you: I've been living from day by day for six years now. We will be living hand to mouth. Hoping for justice."


MENTI INFORMATICHE 3
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, dgfred, the links you were looking for the cash deposit are Nell's posts here: viewtopic.php?p=103343#p103343 and viewtopic.php?p=93282#p93282

Charlie Wilkes March 28, 2011
Quote:
I would describe Guede's statements as the lies and conjecture of someone who was trying to talk his way out of trouble. Here are the facts:

Amanda's bank statement shows a number of transactions booked on Monday, Nov. 5, 2007, reflecting transactions from October 31 through the weekend. The entries are denominated in US dollars as it is a US bank statement.

Amanda made a cash withdrawal of $361.54 (250 Euro). She had most or all of this on her person when she was arrested.

She also used her bank card for the Bubble purchases, $62.18. And she made a deposit of $562.00. Her net balance after this activity was $4,465.89.

The bank statement also shows Amanda's spending pattern in the weeks preceding the murder. The pattern is consistent with normal living expenses, not an expensive drug habit. Nobody testified at the trial that Amanda was squandering money on a drug habit, or that she stole from them, or that they were concerned she might steal from them. It is also worth noting that Amanda did not keep all of her savings in her checking account. Her family was holding approximately $9.000 for her, available any time she needed it. She had no need to steal Meredith's rent money. Guede did."


To date, neither Chris Mellas nor Charlie Wilkes has indicated where the deposit of $562 came from. Nell, and so many others, are well within rights to think this was Meredith's stolen rent money, plus whatever was in her purse at that time.


Do we have any idea in what order these transactions occurred? It makes no sense whatsoever that someone would withdraw 250 euros one day, deposit about 400 euros a day or two later, then end up with over 200 euros in their pocket when they are arrested a day or two after that.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
More of Sollecito's 'fairy tales': full translation of pp.2-3 of the Giallo intreview (partially summarized in MisterPink's posts).

RS wrote:
Perhaps, as a twenty-year-old, I had a different attitude towards life. I was very taken up with her


I thought Sollecito was three or four years older than Amanda. Are these people simply incapable of making a true statement?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Hi, dgfred, the links you were looking for the cash deposit are Nell's posts here: viewtopic.php?p=103343#p103343 and viewtopic.php?p=93282#p93282

Charlie Wilkes March 28, 2011
Quote:
I would describe Guede's statements as the lies and conjecture of someone who was trying to talk his way out of trouble. Here are the facts:

Amanda's bank statement shows a number of transactions booked on Monday, Nov. 5, 2007, reflecting transactions from October 31 through the weekend. The entries are denominated in US dollars as it is a US bank statement.

Amanda made a cash withdrawal of $361.54 (250 Euro). She had most or all of this on her person when she was arrested.

She also used her bank card for the Bubble purchases, $62.18. And she made a deposit of $562.00. Her net balance after this activity was $4,465.89.

The bank statement also shows Amanda's spending pattern in the weeks preceding the murder. The pattern is consistent with normal living expenses, not an expensive drug habit. Nobody testified at the trial that Amanda was squandering money on a drug habit, or that she stole from them, or that they were concerned she might steal from them. It is also worth noting that Amanda did not keep all of her savings in her checking account. Her family was holding approximately $9.000 for her, available any time she needed it. She had no need to steal Meredith's rent money. Guede did."


To date, neither Chris Mellas nor Charlie Wilkes has indicated where the deposit of $562 came from. Nell, and so many others, are well within rights to think this was Meredith's stolen rent money, plus whatever was in her purse at that time.


Do we have any idea in what order these transactions occurred? It makes no sense whatsoever that someone would withdraw 250 euros one day, deposit about 400 euros a day or two later, then end up with over 200 euros in their pocket when they are arrested a day or two after that.


This is the order in which it was reported, itchybrother:

- 1 cash withdrawal of $361.54 (approx. 250 euros)

- 1 bank card purchase for the underwear (Bubble store) of $62.18 (approx. 43 euros)

- 1 deposit of $562.00 (approx. 389 euros)

- After all this activity Amanda's account balance amounted to $4,465.89.

Charlie Wilkes later published this sort of explanation: Source

Quote:
They are saying Amanda stole Meredith's rent money and then deposited it into her checking account???

Wow.

It is true that Amanda made a $562 deposit that posted on Nov. 5, but probably was made sometime in the preceding several days, which were not business days. It was either money from work or a monthly payment made by Amanda's family, who were holding about $9k for her. She didn't want to hold the entire balance of her savings in her checking account for security reasons.

It's also true that she withdrew $361.54 for her share of the rent, another transaction that posted on Nov. 5. Her checking balance after the deposit and the withdrawal was about $4k.


More questions than answers.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

That about the parents had 9000 just sat there ready and waiting for Knox any time she needed it, I do not believe it was like that at all.

Why not?

Many reasons but the most obvious would be her father's very own words in an interview where the money is not being mentioned in any defensive way but where dad is trying to protect a different angle in the affair, by trying to put it out there that when she said she wanted to study in Italy, he made it clear what amount of money they had for her (as in a limit) BUT SHE SAID IT WAS OKAY because she would WORK.

So why would someone say, oh it's okay, I'll work?

if dad had not said:
Well we have this amount available (as we have lots of bills to pay, etc., which most people do and he had two daughters, minors to pay for fully)

If he had said, oh no problem we have enough money for that, how long will you be staying then Knox would never have said it doesn't matter/it's okay.

Dad: Oh 1 year, no problem, we can cover that.

He obviously said no such thing, or Knox would not have responded by saying: Oh it is okay, I'll work (Knox's father's words in 2007) and she did, she took a couple of jobs, he said.

There would have been no reason for her to have said: Oh, it's okay (as in it DOES NOT MATTER) I'll work and no reason for him to be telling that story, that way, from that angle, in 2007.

Later on when it became evident to him, and that family, that they needed to convey the image that they all had wads of cash lying around to meet her every need, they switched the story, and in fact, back at the start, he'd given that vital information away, he cannot un-say it or what the hell, was he lying when he said she would work, lying when he said she said it's okay, or was he too forgetting, was he too suffering from that same illness of memory loss, I don't remember, this is my best version type of thing?

So each time an angle is made clear or pops up, and they need to ''muscle in leverage'' to back up a point, they change elements accordingly, to suit whatever thing going down, even though new stories (call them alibis) clash with outings/statements/interview propaganda from them made at an earlier date.

So dad with his ordinary job had wads of cash lying around, his two young daughters, all their needs paid for, dad was swimming in the dough, what did you say, money? Ah sure, how much ya want, just say it, your wish is our command.

Someone is telling lies.

It cannot be Knox because she always tells the truth, is it not?
I mean look at that about Mr Patrick Lumumba, she admitted she'd told a pack of lies about him, but then acts as though it was his fault, and that she must forgive him, so kind is she, so kind is her Italian chum too, he is busy (in his head and to the press) trying to order Meredith's parents around, he goes against their clear wishes, gets some creep of a Brit (I'm a Brit and I know there is no shortage of idiots like Mr Scott in Britain believe you me) to accompany him to Meredith's grave then talks about what a great guy he really is, how he is just that kind of guy, he now has a long list of noble titles, each one self-awarded, in fact I think it's time someone established a foundation for Self-Awarders: I'm great, I'm just that kind of gal, I'm just that kind of guy, I'm the man with honour, I did not consider me, the only thought I had was to protect her, I guess you could call me a hero if you want too, but if you don't, I will, yes, I am a hero.

He refers to their thing as Love at First Sight

They had Lust at First Sight

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
It certainly wasn't Rudy Guede. The claim by the defence that it was him in the video, is based on the fact that he's wearing the same coat that Rudy was wearing when he was brought back from Germany. The problem with that, was the coat was bought for him by his father as a present when Rudy was in Koblenz prison awaiting extradition.

Silly attempt by the defense to distract from the other CCTV images IMO. Many people walk there, and why would Guede be coming out of the car park? He doesn't even look like that. Too bad the police witness about the CCTV was so bad. He didn't know exactly who checked the clock, and didn't realize it couldn't have been Meredith after he said the clock was 10 minutes fast. Also the attempt by Bongiorno to show that the clock was 10 minutes slow with images of the 'arrival' of the Carbinieri shows that she knew very well what was going on. Why not ask the Carbinieri? If that really was them arriving after asking for directions, then they wouldn't be walking and hovering for a minute in front. They had the same problem the postal police had who got out a few times and walked around as well. The street is not that big so it is possible they passed the cottage before realizing that was the address. The CCTV caught them still searching, not arriving IMO. Somebody should have asked them, but Bongiorno was smart by coming up with this theory at the last moment IIRC.
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Offline chami


Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:36 pm

Posts: 166

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
This is the order in which it was reported, itchybrother:

- 1 cash withdrawal of $361.54 (approx. 250 euros)

- 1 bank card purchase for the underwear (Bubble store) of $62.18 (approx. 43 euros)

- 1 deposit of $562.00 (approx. 389 euros)

- After all this activity Amanda's account balance amounted to $4,465.89.

More questions than answers.


These amounts are converted from the dollar values and are therefore approximate because the bank commission is not reflected in this.

The deposit must be 390 or 400 euro because the machines will not accept coins. Bank commission of 11 euros for 400 euro deposit is about right.

Anyway, there will be records of deposit and withdrawal times somewhere.
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Offline chami


Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:36 pm

Posts: 166

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
That about the parents had 9000 just sat there ready and waiting for Knox any time she needed it, I do not believe it was like that at all.

Why not?

Many reasons but the most obvious would be her father's very own words in an interview where the money is not being mentioned in any defensive way but where dad is trying to protect a different angle in the affair, by trying to put it out there that when she said she wanted to study in Italy, he made it clear what amount of money they had for her (as in a limit) BUT SHE SAID IT WAS OKAY because she would WORK.

So why would someone say, oh it's okay, I'll work?

if dad had not said:
Well we have this amount available (as we have lots of bills to pay, etc., which most people do and he had two daughters, minors to pay for fully)

If he had said, oh no problem we have enough money for that, how long will you be staying?

Oh 1 year, no problem, we can cover that.

He obviously said no such thing, or Knox would not have responded by saying: Oh it is okay, I'll work (Knox's father's words in 2007) and she did, she took a couple of jobs, he said.

There would have been no reason for her to have said: Oh, it's okay (as in it DOES NOT MATTER) I'll work and no reason for him to be telling that story, that way, from that angle, in 2007.

Later on when it became evident to him, and that family, that they needed to concey the image that they all had wads of cash lying around to meet her every need, they switched the story, and in fact, back at the start, he'd given that vital information away, he cannot un-say it or what the hell, was he lying when he said she would work, lying when he said she said it's okay, or was he too forgetting, was he too sudfering from that same ilness of memoy loss, I do'nt remember, this is my best version type of thing?

So each time an angle is made clear or pops up, and they need to ''muscle in leverage'' to back up a point, they change elements accordingly, to suit whatever thing it is going down, even though new stories (call them alibis) clash with outings/statements/interview propaganda from them made at an earlier date.

So dad with his ordinary job had wads of cash lying around, his two young daughters, all their needs paid for, dad was swimming in the dough, what did you say, money? Ah sure, how much ya want, just say it, your wish is our command.

Someone is telling lies.

It cannot be Knox because she always tells the truth, is it not?
I mean look at that about Mr Patrick Lumumba, she admitted she'd told a pack of lies about him, but then acts as though it was his fault, and that she must forgive him, so kind is she, so kind is her Italian chum too, he is busy (in his head and to the press) trying to order Meredith's parents around, he goes against their clear wishes, gets some creep of a Brit (I'm a Brit and I know there is no shortage of idiots like Mr Scott in Britain believe you me) to accompany him to Meredith's grave then talks about what a great guy he really is, how he is just that kind of guy, he now has a long list of noble titles, each one self-awarded, in fact I think it's time someone established a foundation for Self-Awarders: I'm great, I'm just that kind of gal, I'm just that kind of guy, I'm the man with honour, I did not consider me, the only thought I had was to protect her, I guess you could call me a hero if you want too but if you don't, I will, yes, I am a hero.

He refers to their thing as Love at First Sight

They had Lust at First Sight


Brillaint! I would only say that it is Lust at First Bite (half of a byte is called nibble).
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Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, dgfred, the links you were looking for the cash deposit are Nell's posts here: viewtopic.php?p=103343#p103343 and viewtopic.php?p=93282#p93282

Charlie Wilkes March 28, 2011
Quote:
I would describe Guede's statements as the lies and conjecture of someone who was trying to talk his way out of trouble. Here are the facts:

Amanda's bank statement shows a number of transactions booked on Monday, Nov. 5, 2007, reflecting transactions from October 31 through the weekend. The entries are denominated in US dollars as it is a US bank statement.

Amanda made a cash withdrawal of $361.54 (250 Euro). She had most or all of this on her person when she was arrested.

She also used her bank card for the Bubble purchases, $62.18. And she made a deposit of $562.00. Her net balance after this activity was $4,465.89.

The bank statement also shows Amanda's spending pattern in the weeks preceding the murder. The pattern is consistent with normal living expenses, not an expensive drug habit. Nobody testified at the trial that Amanda was squandering money on a drug habit, or that she stole from them, or that they were concerned she might steal from them. It is also worth noting that Amanda did not keep all of her savings in her checking account. Her family was holding approximately $9.000 for her, available any time she needed it. She had no need to steal Meredith's rent money. Guede did."


To date, neither Chris Mellas nor Charlie Wilkes has indicated where the deposit of $562 came from. Nell, and so many others, are well within rights to think this was Meredith's stolen rent money, plus whatever was in her purse at that time.


They try, they throw fits, they leave in a huff... because there is no innocent explanation for a withdrawal and then a larger deposit from the 31st Oct- Nov 5th. No pay, no money from home.
What is left?
The 200 or so Euro on her at arrest is the icing on that cake.
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Offline zorba


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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
zorba wrote:

That about the parents had 9000 just sat there ready and waiting for Knox any time she needed it, I do not believe it was like that at all.

Why not?

Many reasons but the most obvious would be her father's very own words in an interview where the money is not being mentioned in any defensive way but where dad is trying to protect a different angle in the affair, by trying to put it out there that when she said she wanted to study in Italy, he made it clear what amount of money they had for her (as in a limit) BUT SHE SAID IT WAS OKAY because she would WORK.

So why would someone say, oh it's okay, I'll work?

if dad had not said:
Well we have this amount available (as we have lots of bills to pay, etc., which most people do and he had two daughters, minors to pay for fully)

If he had said, oh no problem we have enough money for that, how long will you be staying then Knox would never have said it doesn't matter/it's okay.

Dad: Oh 1 year, no problem, we can cover that.

He obviously said no such thing, or Knox would not have responded by saying: Oh it is okay, I'll work (Knox's father's words in 2007) and she did, she took a couple of jobs, he said.

There would have been no reason for her to have said: Oh, it's okay (as in it DOES NOT MATTER) I'll work and no reason for him to be telling that story, that way, from that angle, in 2007.

Later on when it became evident to him, and that family, that they needed to convey the image that they all had wads of cash lying around to meet her every need, they switched the story, and in fact, back at the start, he'd given that vital information away, he cannot un-say it or what the hell, was he lying when he said she would work, lying when he said she said it's okay, or was he too forgetting, was he too suffering from that same illness of memory loss, I don't remember, this is my best version type of thing?

So each time an angle is made clear or pops up, and they need to ''muscle in leverage'' to back up a point, they change elements accordingly, to suit whatever thing going down, even though new stories (call them alibis) clash with outings/statements/interview propaganda from them made at an earlier date.

So dad with his ordinary job had wads of cash lying around, his two young daughters, all their needs paid for, dad was swimming in the dough, what did you say, money? Ah sure, how much ya want, just say it, your wish is our command.

Someone is telling lies.

It cannot be Knox because she always tells the truth, is it not?
I mean look at that about Mr Patrick Lumumba, she admitted she'd told a pack of lies about him, but then acts as though it was his fault, and that she must forgive him, so kind is she, so kind is her Italian chum too, he is busy (in his head and to the press) trying to order Meredith's parents around, he goes against their clear wishes, gets some creep of a Brit (I'm a Brit and I know there is no shortage of idiots like Mr Scott in Britain believe you me) to accompany him to Meredith's grave then talks about what a great guy he really is, how he is just that kind of guy, he now has a long list of noble titles, each one self-awarded, in fact I think it's time someone established a foundation for Self-Awarders: I'm great, I'm just that kind of gal, I'm just that kind of guy, I'm the man with honour, I did not consider me, the only thought I had was to protect her, I guess you could call me a hero if you want too, but if you don't, I will, yes, I am a hero.

He refers to their thing as Love at First Sight

They had Lust at First Sight


Brillaint! I would only say that it is Lust at First Bite (half of a byte is called nibble).


Ha, yes I had to look that stuff up again the other day, some of it was made up not by bearded professors in labs but by peanut butter chomping surfboard dudes in Califoristan, all that fruit and so on, has anyone got ideas for a new APP called the Blueberry, because every other thing is out there, orange, apple, blackberry, those cats I mentioned were all high on weed inventing that stuff and overcome with munchies, I'm surprised there's no phone called mom's apple tart.

Anyhow yes, brilliant thank you, I must day in Sollecito's way, I know, thank you, it's just me, I'm fantaaaaaaaaastic


Normally those having a joke and laugh when speaking so would say, don't ya think don't ya think, you know after self-meriting themselves, I'm just a genuis, don't ya think, don't ya think, but no, if you want to get with the Sollecito twitch you have to say, yes, for I'm a man of honour, yes, this is me, I'm fantastic, yes, I know. As though he is having a conversation only thing is, he's the only one in it.


darn, 11 eurosons for a simple transaction it aint even like someone needs to pay for new ink cartridges these days, the biggest crooks are the banks, I think those top managwrs have mattresses full of dollar bills.

Hey about currency, when I was in Asia, the currencies to have were not the ones that you liked the silly pictures on , but the ones that were stable, yo might go off on a trip with 4000 dollars but if the rates were known to fluctuate then that's be a bad type to pick, the dollar was okay, it's not like it was something in the former East Block countries, but German marks was a very well-liked option, still seeing as how the ret are directly or indirectly influenced/affected by the dolari, then many people had traveller's checks in dollars, exceot German people as their currency was so stable.

In India, everything was so eye-opening, they had these books of money, so like if they had a new one (book of money), they would tear out a new note in front of you from a book they'd purchased, it was so odd, and, in Asia, there was a raving trade in you having to sell your notes for less, since if it was damaged, the shopkeepers refused to take it, so it was a sport to get tourist freaks to take them, and have them work out how to get their money for them later.

Going to the post office was another kind of Olympics that you knowingly sliced out a morning for, knowing you'd have t wait hours but unless you were nuts, would accept it was the way, and would not get uptight, and enjoy it instead, meeting people, sitting down, having all kinds of sellers there, any kind of food & drink, and babas selling their special little stuff like those red melted seals, that were used hundreds of years ago on letters and so on but where they in India still really liked that touch, I mean it weighed two tons a letter but, you had to have it, as even in the post office itself, they'd take your letter and if you hadn't watched them put a stamp on it they'd remove the freshly glued stamp and resell it, a few of those were a week's wage for some, so everyone knew, get your letter stamped in front of you.

I guess Knox must have been selling something if she had all of that extra cash; don't believe they had 9 grabnd ready for her and I do not believe they mortgaged any ghomes in fact I think the only tghing the murder has brought them is more money, they never paid a penny for trips to Italy that much is crystal clear, I mean who does all of that for nes media that they got up to without asking a habndsome fee for it?

Yes you are right, nutters, everyone else gets paid.


Latest news: The brave gentleman and hard learner Sollecito, has bought a tent and is camping out in front of the prison to show he is innocent.

I believe him now and have set up a new fund for him, to have his head looked at.

Donate here: Vedere la mia testa dottore, grazia tanto, mille billioni euros, vieni qui con la tua soldi caro mio

Google Trans: See my head doctor, so much grace, so much, a thousand billion euros, come here with your money my friend

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:




Your first pic, just cracked me up. pp-(
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Offline chami


Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:36 pm

Posts: 166

PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Zorba

I just wanted to make the following three points about money:

1. No student will carry $1000 in cash for days at a time.

2. Approx 20% of the bank balance at that moment so this is not a small sum.

3. She mentioned that Patrick has not paid her (at one time) and therefore money is a concern for her.

It is not a small sum even for an American student. Why carry so much cash?

One good thing about money is that it can be tracked.

On another forum, some one commented that the lingerie she bought is an ordinary one as she desperately needed a new one. I did check online prices in Italy but my personal conclusion is that she had expensive taste ($60 is not cheap, IMHO).

Perhaps because it is unearned money?
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Offline zorba


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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:11 am

Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Zorba

I just wanted to make the following three points about money:

1. No student will carry $1000 in cash for days at a time.

2. Approx 20% of the bank balance at that moment so this is not a small sum.

3. She mentioned that Patrick has not paid her (at one time) and therefore money is a concern for her.

It is not a small sum even for an American student. Why carry so much cash?

One good thing about money is that it can be tracked.

On another forum, someone commented that the lingerie she bought is an ordinary one as she desperately needed a new one. I did check online prices in Italy but my personal conclusion is that she had expensive taste ($60 is not cheap, IMHO).

Perhaps because it is unearned money?



Hi Chami

1) No, not without a reason, in fact, not only students but people in general unless doing business deals or purchasing something that has to be paid for in cash, these days, I hardly ever see money, when I do withdraw some money because I am going for a drink and cannot do that to other customers, like have them wait while each time I order a drink, etc., well having that bit of money in my pocket is now almost like a novelty, and after a few days, recently, I really had to get rid of all that junk change that had built up and that I was no longer used to having to take care of. I buy online, and I pay with my card in shops, at the fuel station, and everywhere else too.

2) Yes and a quarter of what she had, for A YEAR, I mean no wonder she was working, from what she herself had said it seems she wouldn't have returned to American to stay, doors opened for her as they do for anyone, except she spilt her opportunities, still, I envisage her as, if nothing had happened, and I mean bad had happened, trying to go off travelling everywhere, which is no bad thing, but, thing is, the money she had was peanuts. Of course as is the usual Italian way, his dad was giving him a budget, but before all of this I think his dad was probably giving him enough but not spoiling him rotten, hoping his son was gong to grow up and become independent, because I know it is a traditional thing in Italy to invest in the kids, it's not a country that had a great tradition for supporting people with social security and so on, in fact I know there wre very strict rules and all the people I knew had to either have some work or depend on family and friends, in the time I stayed in Italy social security was almost non-existent, therefore, without his dad Sollecito had nothing, and it was not as though he received thousands a month in cash or onhis bank account from his dad, I'm certain he received enough, his dad paying for his nice car (Sollecito said himself he had the best things, the best car, etc), his accommodation, his clothing (designer clothing), etc., apart from that he would have given him a monthly allowance and it seems Sollecito had run right through that at his time of arrest having just 40 euros to his name.

3) Again, she would therefore, in line with number 2. not have been able, right away, to totally depend on Sollecito, his money was finished at the time of Meredith's murder, the way he looked to me is someone using heroin, bedraggled, yes it's fine now going on TV after having sat in the TV channel stylist's chair and having your face polished, your hair groomed, your clothing scrutinised, your overall look checked and determined before you ever get to go on TV in line with what the image is they want you to put across, especially when the TV station is cutting deals to defend you, rather than just be a TV station, so he looked like shit and now all the time like they are Hollywood stars, etc. This is why it seems highly likely that there was friction through Knox's situation where she was quick off the mark to BLAME others for her own behaviour, behaviour as in it was her own choice to behave as she did, in such a way as to make Patrick think, mmm, she's no use to us at all, all as she does is flirt with guys and act like the Queen Bee, Patrick did not say those things for nothing, so she blamed it on Meredith, took it out on Meredith; she wanted t stay indefinitely in Italy and so she needed work, as that money she had wouldn't have lasted long, in fact if you so the math, what was rhe rent money 250 well 250 euros is more han dollars, anyhow 4 months rent 1000 euros, 4 months x 3 = 12 months = 4000 euros so she basically had no money at all. When her dad said, she said it's okay sad, I'll work, well what he actually must have meant, was she did, and she WOULD do so in Italy if she could as well. Knox had no right I think to work in Italy, because she would not have a visa allowing it, she was there to study not take an Italian's job, or a Europeans job, because that's just the way things are arranged, even an American wishing to stay in Britan will not simply just be able to do so, he/she will need a good job that either cannot be done by a Brit or for which it would be hard to find someone to do, so jobs where there is a shortage of good personnel, and these rules apply in most developed countries, I say most but let's say all because that is accurate. Same with Australia, Canada. So Knox was working illegally, no big deal in a way, when it's a part time job and it happens so much but she would have had a hard time getting a full-time job, she would have had to go through a process, applying for a different type of visa altogether, so maybe she was more uptight about her situation, her bad situation with Patrick than her family and she herself will let on, her family may not understand the half of it themselves, they seem to act like they are in a cowboy movie, with their deputies and sheriffs but not getting a whole lot, and what they do get, they've twisted to suit their own ends, she was doing her thing, she would work, they could not chain her down and stop her, they hoped for the best, her off on her own, but they did not know the half of what she was starting to get into, the pair of them looked as rough as hell on that fateful morning, and so that is what is an important detail, not how they look 6 years on when grooming up to spin their yarns on TV. I think she went nuts, preferring to blame her own ill-behaviour on Meredith, as if Meredith was somehow muscling in on her position, which was not the ay it was according to the realistic relaying of details pertaining to that situation, details provided by those who knew Meredith and WERE HER FRIENDS, not someone who keeps overdoing it with the friend bit making it blatantly obvious that the notion or concept of friendship is a lie, Knox was not one of Meredith's real friends, they were acquaintence s and as that goes the activities they did undertake initially were nothing more than what anyone lse does in such a situation, of course you go for a coffee with your new housemate, of course you go fora drink but when you start discovering there are things you do not like about that in-house acquaintance you start backing off and saying, well, er no, I cannot right now, I'm, tired, or I have an appointment, or just plain NO. You do not have to be a lecturer at Harvard, Oxford or Bologna to grasp these matters.


Yes the Bubbles store, not an ordinary store, but one of a range in a small well-located street, so exclusive as type, a range of boutique-like stores but all of the same variety, all selling high-end lingerie, not Walmart or Woolworths or (in Italy) Discount Dico (Coop) or Conad to grab a set of 6 for 10 euros or less, which would be the normal thing to do when obliterated to hell from the news about your FRIEND, so-called in this case since Knox was not Meredith's friend at all, I think, if she had been a friend Meredith would have been alive now and enjoying her life after having completed her studies, would now have been in a full-time job with everything going for her, likeable, reasonable, caring, considerate, compassionate, intelligent, not self-centred, yes the opposite of her, what became, adversary Knox.

Sollecito says he would have had no reason, but he did, the one main one being that he is a weasel (no real own mind), and he is spineless (visiting Meredith's grave against the wishes of her parents) and inconsiderate in the extreme, and like Knox never fails to prize himself above all others in certain ways she has, ways of putting things that he cannot even see omits the more important things, he therefore is narcissistic, entitled, arrogant, aloof and haughty; he is better, he is fantastic, he is so honourable, why, he'll even go himself to the prison gates and wait until they arrive to take him inside. Yes, and I know why he has been putting that ridiculous idea out, it is to try to have people think, wow that poor guy look he is innocent, he is never going go be on the run. He is saying what he has been saying because he has picked up on the criticism on his behaviour, his going to the Caribbean, where he had not expected to be seen, and it was OGGI that gave that particular game away, so he says I will go to the gates, and wait, yes, oh the poor thing, look what they are doing, yes senor I cooperate but look what they are doing, they are terrible, where he also keeps trying to equate taxpayer's money with his own predicament as though on the basis of money society should stop trying to seek justice now because yes people, they are taking your money, he has attempted another utterly weak strategy, or attempts to make others feel guilty and angry, but the truth is, he is vindictive and nasty; it is he that is the bastard; he that is the liar; he that has cost all of that money, because he is the one who tells lies, so who's bright idea was it to go to that street of all places? the luxurious boutique street with expensive lingerie and sex toys (which is normal in a lot of those shops as there is in principle nothing wrong with sex toys unless you leave them on the dining table when the family are over for Sunday lunch which is similar to Knox's way because Knox would in no way have left that silly toy she had in her possession, in her parent's bathroom would she ((would she?) no, she did it because she had no sense of place when away from home but who was she to imagine that strangers to her would feel exactly the same way her parents would have felt if she made a habit of leaving transparent bathroom bags with sex toys in them in their bathroom?)).

Yes it was Sollecito who knew OF the special little boutique street, but I imagine he would never have been in there, it seems to me anyhow, so after finding out that your FRIEND has been murdered, hey, I'm devastated but I need a pair of pants, I have none, so let us partake of a stroll over to that one store and buy the one pair of ridiculously expensive sexy-time pants.

It just ain't on, it just isn't.
They were in no way, shape or form upset, it is on video, that is NOT upset, that is NOT I care, that is NOT she was my FRIEND, that is NOT I could give a shit, that is we are having fun and we are engaging at the sexual level, a sexual level of some sort, exactly the way they appeared outside the scene of the murder, where the hugging and kissing showed no signs of being any reaction to the news but, to me, looked like they were holding onto one another hoping to avoid any outside interference, and while holding they could whisper too and that is what Knox's face gives a readout on too, her face says she has so much to hide in fact I always thought she appeared to be hiding in him, but then the manner in which they kissed too was nothing to do with the comforting caring type of reassurance one gives to someone who needs it because they are upset at having hard terrible facts about someone they cared about, no, the kissing was totally disconnected from any reality at that scene, and being that they were so in that thing they were up to, they could not even divorce themselves from it for a minute and simply stood there kissing in a way that too looked sexual, it was NOT comfort, it was not CONDOLENCE offering, nothing of the sort, this engagement they were in, just continues, right up to the visit to the sexy time store.

Knox's parents can pretend that leaving a toyt liike that in the public area of a shared home is insignificant but living in shared accommodation does not mean that you turn into savages, people with no idea of social etiquette, what is Laura or Filomena's mother popped over now and then, who knows, nobody knows and that is why you do not do things like that, if Knox lived in Seattle in a student house and her mom wasclose by, her dad too, and sometimes dropped in, she would not have tolerated her housemates klevaing vibrators inb the bathroom either, because when said father goes to the WC and sees such a thing he thinks exactly what anyone else, anywhere else thinks upon seeing such things, I have never seen anyone keep such items in a bathroom.

She was a filthy-minded self-centred person who seems to get a kick out of the things that have happened, in the knowledge of what really happened and it seems as though she is a sadist enjoying the suffering others have rather than feel anything of their pain, he was a dirty, shameless, wicked bastard (and his forcing the issue about visiting Meredith's grave is a pointer towards his ability to force things no matter what), that's all I can say, both were totally inconsiderate and insensitive to the feelings of others.

If you know your girlfriend is really upset,you are then seen, I mean this is really normal and usual, holding her, in between expressing other things related directly to the bad news, the looks, the tears, so the big firm hugging, a kiss on the cheek in a way totally saying for all who see it, he is comforting her, something must have happened, in fact, excuse me, sir, did something happen, can I help, excuse me, lady, did someone hurt you. No none of it, they stood there infused in the events of the night before, bedraggled, unkempt, ungroomed, dragged backwards through a bush, little sleep did I say dishevelled? Yes dishevelled, badly worn, worse for wear, grubby, scruffy, dirty, sloppy, totally frazzled,
badly dressed, uncombed,


yes so I hope everyone gets the drift, not had a night of sleep, not a had a nice shower, not had a relaxed breakfast, nope they look all of the above and more and didn't look as if they had slept or eaten.

_________________
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Last edited by zorba on Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Zorba

I just wanted to make the following three points about money:

1. No student will carry $1000 in cash for days at a time.

2. Approx 20% of the bank balance at that moment so this is not a small sum.

3. She mentioned that Patrick has not paid her (at one time) and therefore money is a concern for her.

It is not a small sum even for an American student. Why carry so much cash?

One good thing about money is that it can be tracked.

On another forum, some one commented that the lingerie she bought is an ordinary one as she desperately needed a new one. I did check online prices in Italy but my personal conclusion is that she had expensive taste ($60 is not cheap, IMHO).

Perhaps because it is unearned money?


The bloomers were bought using a bank card. $62.18 US

sc-))
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The bloomers were bought after the money had been deposited in the bank.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

That's a huge sum really isn't it, it's the thing one might buy someone for their birthday or Christmas, oh look, dad's bought mum a pair of sexy drawers, ti hi hi, no maybe dad then gives that particular present to her in private but buying such things is similar to buying mum an iron and a set of tea clothes for Christmas, simply wonderful because the drawers would be more for him than her, shit, meant a girlfriend of mine didst steal my underwear, that were often in much better shape than their own, but clean out of the drawer, I never copied that behaviour mind you, I mean what use are those flimsy drawers, they creep into all of the wrong places, now let me bark on about the beauty of French knickers, now those are sexy and they are proper, who wants a cheese wire in the crevises, I mean why have any underside at all, in fact, why wear anything.

No, what I think is, on this about what is criminal, what is the result of some form of mental illness and how do you add up what is terrible behaviour coupled withh the basis where the doer knows not really what he/she does, like in a schizophrenic attack, or who does commit crime knowing full well, that is 100% exactly what they are doing and why, and I'm sorry, though I find so many things wrong with Sollecito, I think he is fully culpable, he knew and knows exactly what is what and it is not a matter of making mistakes, for if it ever were a spur of the moment thing, then the aftermath cannot be added up, subtracted, multiplied or equated with anything like it was just a moment, if it was, then someone would just find it unbearable to live with and own up, so many people still so, yes even now in these harsh times.

Somehow his disposition and positioning, make me think he is doing and did everything from an angle of he is protecting her, like from herself, so she went and screwed up and he helped her, but he knew and knows full well that the things he did and is doing are criminal.


Culpable is another nice word, niceto see its roots then:

1)
culpable [ˈkʌlpəbəl]
adj
deserving censure; blameworthy
[from Old French coupable, from Latin culpābilis, from culpāre to blame, from culpa fault]

culpability , culpableness n

culpably adv

2)
culpable
adjective blameworthy, wrong, guilty, to blame, liable, in the wrong, at fault, sinful, answerable, found wanting, reprehensible Their decision to do nothing makes them culpable.
innocent, not guilty, in the clear, squeaky-clean, blameless, guiltless, clean (slang)

3)
culpable (ˈkalpəbl) adjective
deserving blame; guilty. She was the one who committed the crime but he was culpable also.
ˌculpaˈbility noun

_______________________

The last entry is perhaps almost what this case is all about!!! Da da!!!!!

In Italian, you get, non e la mia culpa

or scusa, mia culpa.

Obviously, in the English language we are using words derived from all kinds of different languages, Latin being one of the most important, sometimes you can see he connection directly, other times you need to see the Latin to be able to say, oh yeah, of course, interesting, we have lots of French rooted words, which were themselves, Latin rooted, and Latin rooted words that are Greek rooted, Hebrew and Sanskrit, some words we think are ours are from Arabic, like alchemist, because it wa the Arabs who were trying to find the elixir of eternal youth and the way to produce gold artificially, there, henceforth, comes the tradition of analysis from, so whebh you or I or we or someone is thinking this ismy language, yes, in a way, but never should one be smug about that part of human development, like iduiots on a crumb of the planet thinking just because they have a house and a yard that they somehow invented the planet and learning, as do the twerps in he Seattle region supporting Knox, they do not even know about the root of what they have each day, and they therefore cannot put different elements of development and human learning into true perspective, of course just because the actual systems of numbers were found out long before Jesus in ancient Babylonia and Sumeria which is ancient Iran and Iraq, the cradles of civilization, it doesn't mean that what from thereon in is derived does not have its own value and place in the entirety, still, lets get real, words have power, even in the vibratory that they call-up when emitted through the vocal chords, the power we are mostly totally unaware of, except for things like swearing, we know that if we say things in certain ways it has effect, but the real roots of much of it we do not get properly, so like where we use English each day thinking we are so great when our language is a bastardization of so many contributory languages not knowing about the root going back so far, to words like culpa, well, in Italy, though most may not have any understanding of it either, somehow, because so many words are almost the same in Italian today as they are in Latin, and others are far more easy seen to be derived from the Latin, and where for an Italian, learning Latin would be, then, more like a piece of cake, no trouble at all, but more, the vibratory is something that in the drama words conjured up, when using Italian this is still in a way far more powerful than in English, and thy are instinctively more connected to their own roots than are English speaking and other language speaking persons. Where a Mr Sollecito has so many overpowering drives himself, one iof which is to go afgainst all he probably aways stood by being a man of learning, and that is t be deceitful, simply because of the pull he feels towards things embedded in his roots that he is not even aware of as is hardly anyone aware of, in Italy or out, the difference being, that as an Italian with such a rich heritage, certain things have been interwoven into culture for so long in the role of main contender for place of importance in this world, where much learning has been assimilated and transferred by and to other countries, America's heritage is entirely different, being that it is in its infancy in comparison with what other blobs on the planet contributed, that does not mean that America's contribution does not have its worthy earned place in the whole, but it has its place, not Italy or Greece's place or ancient China or India, or the Babylonian seat, America's contribution is the technological and industrialised assets, none of which have their actual root in America.

To be comparing apples and oranges though is nuts, because what is invented, is invented and it has a value, it's own value , it's own worthy place in the whole, the nuts bit is when people try to pretend that their place is the most important, it is as the the dog bites than hand that fed it, because without Babylonians, we would not have what we have but we do have what we have, getting real about it, saeeing it all in proper perspective is important in understanding where we are in our human developmental stage, poor Mr Sollecito is wrestling with drives he knows nothing about, all as he dioes is act like some ancient, protecting the family name, it is what he is all about, it is deeply driven into him as a long wooden stake, in the whole, it is not really for him about protecting his son, his inner sense of esteem, has everything to do with history, it's not for nothing that Italians can be so hot headed, thing is they can walk about each day and be transferred back in time just by glancing at a building, and by so many other things they still have in their possession whether linguistically, archicturally or other, art, engineering, after all it was the Romans eho did all of that road building, bridge building all obver the place right up to the Hebrides and into Jordan and Africa.

All is not what it may at first appear to be.
It takes looking slightly further afield than the length of the own snout.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:16 pm   Post subject: THE HATER ISSUE, AGAIN   

Interesting blog on Patrick Moore's All Things Crime site Hate, The Oxycontin Of Women

where the author, a man, I presume, but his name there is 'Pitchforks', states that most of the 'hate' against Amanda Knox (and Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony) is directed by women, because that's the way they are. Do drop by to see such misogyny in action, also some replies :)

One comment from a Knox supporter is peripherally interesting:

Quote:
"Joan James":
Recently there has been a concerted and fairly fruitful effort to ferret out their actual identities as well as some info on who they are and why they’re stalking Amanda online. It’s been, to put it mildly, very interesting to put names, faces and personalities to these tags. (I think Ergon might vouch for that?!) The main reason for this effort is that some of these people, in some of their more virulent posts, have made very precise, very lethal threats relative to the life and safety of both Amanda and Raffaele, as well as their families and friends!!!


What can you say to such people?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I guess this is Greg Hampikian's 'answer' to Andrea Vogt's public records request. He sounds a bit defensive:

After years of working with exonerees, Hampikian knows the importance of science and technology in criminal trials, but, he says, problems arise when the human element is forgotten. “We as scientists have enjoyed a reputation we don’t deserve,” he says. “We are treated as if we don’t have all the normal human biases that people have. We hide behind the shield of science the way the church did in the Middle Ages. The truth is that scientists are just as subject to normal human biases as anything else—to the influence of colleagues, to the influence of context.” This, he says, is what happened in the Knox case. For police, he says, “the order was gut feeling, arrest, and then science.”


THE STORY
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Who's more likely to be influenced, Rome police who had no particular investment in a given outcome, or Hampikian, who has genuine affection* for Knox?



* please, god, let it only be that.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I often wonder about the order of who gets hard in court, like now, the prosecution have their say, the civil party too, then a pause then the defence say their piece, then a pause then deliberation and then ruling, but having the defence be last, sometimes made me think, if the lay judges are impressionable they may remember more from the defence, then thinking again, what with the second pause, I do not think it works that way because just as having the last say could be an advantage, one might conclude equally well, that neither side gets to benefit from having the first or last word, because all matters are reviewed and stated and explained to the lay judges, as to the meaning according to law and the significance.

Sollecito's act of I'm Mr Cool, will he not now be feeling the heat of the hot coals about his shins?

Oh no I forgot, he's going to be very cold, camped out in front of some prison, I say some because it is odd how he thinks he could do that, could he know which prison he will get sent to if found guilty? ah, he imagines he'll get sent right back to the same prison and the same cell he had like it belongs to him, in a sense it'd be accurate, but in fact, he deserves a cell but which one, is not something he gets to choose.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

In a way it is in some sense criminal to say the things he does within the backdrop of the state he is in, in his situation, to be saying, if I were her I would not return, somehow that is a crime too, it shows a flagrant disregard for the rule of law, the what is, encouragement of illegal behaviour, he is such a good boy yet openly promotes the breaking of law, having no respect for it, from the one angle, then pretending he is Mr Perfect Little Law Abiding Citizen on the other.

One change I think appropriate would be laws against Counsel hugging defendants, it is incorrect to allow that, teachers are not allowed to go anywhere near kids, like touching them, people in the professions must also watch out, no unwanted intimacies like the director repeatedly putting an arm around the shoulder of a female employee, even and also a male employee, no matter what way it is supposed to be meant, practice has shown and determined that many men in positions of power, like in the office or workplace have misused this friendly arm around the shoulder, instead of it being real kind, it is use it as sexual harassment and that is why such things are no longer permitted so that women, primarily women, are not subjected to behaviour that creates uncertainty, being made to feel uncomfortable from it but being afraid to say so for fear of causing upsets and possibly losing the job.
Which way is it okay to be making a parade of such affections or whatever one wishes to call it, in a court of law, because Knox's defence took every opportunity to make a big show of that, and I have never seen it being done like that elsewhere.

So am I misinformed/uninformed on this, is it usual in America to have lawyers kissing, cuddling and hugging their clients in the courtroom?

I know not.

I'll look it up.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm still looking it up, if anyone knows, or is good at finding info, please say so, and provide info here. There is a conflict of interests where a lawyer kisses and cuddle a client, because what if he does not like her, and does, on the other end of the spectrum, weird shit, that is not allowed either is it, so I think this courtroom show that Knox's lawyer's used is highly inappropriate and they've used it to shift the focus away from the serious nature of her position and to turn the courtroom into a media and sympathy circus.

If Sollecito is such a heroic, honourable person, let him stand up and be cross-examined.
Too late and he was never going to do it was he, he was only going to make wild and awful accusations from the safety of his position of no substance or significance, since talking the way he does is insignificant since it is not balanced, he can say whatever he likes and he is not questioned and cannot be shown to be telling lies.

Nice

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
I'm still looking it up, if anyone knows, or is good at finding info, please say so, and provide info here. There is a conflict of interests where a lawyer kisses and cuddle a client, because what if he does not like her, and does on the other end of the spectrum, weird shit, that is not allowed either is it, so I think this courtroom show that Knox's lawyer's ueed is highly inappropriate and they've used it to shift the focus away from the serious nature of her position and to tuen the court room into a media and sympathy circus.

If Sollecito is such a heroic, honourable person, let him stand up and be cross-examined.
Too late and he was never going to do it was he, he was only going to make wild and awful accusations from the safety of his position of no substance or significance, since talking the way he does is insignificant since it is not balanced, he can say whatever he likes and he is not questioned and cannot be shown to be telling lies.

Nice


No, it is not nice.

I too consider CDV's actions inappropriate. And I do not bother what the law says.

I know people will flame me but I do not think that the Italian habit of kissing at every opportunity is doing the nation any good!
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It is not appropriate, in ANY court room. But it brings to mind what I was thinking about all day, and will be my next post. How, exactly, do all the men and women that fall under her spell, see her?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
zorba wrote:
I'm still looking it up, if anyone knows, or is good at finding info, please say so, and provide info here. There is a conflict of interests where a lawyer kisses and cuddle a client, because what if he does not like her, and does on the other end of the spectrum, weird shit, that is not allowed either is it, so I think this courtroom show that Knox's lawyer's ueed is highly inappropriate and they've used it to shift the focus away from the serious nature of her position and to tuen the court room into a media and sympathy circus.

If Sollecito is such a heroic, honourable person, let him stand up and be cross-examined.
Too late and he was never going to do it was he, he was only going to make wild and awful accusations from the safety of his position of no substance or significance, since talking the way he does is insignificant since it is not balanced, he can say whatever he likes and he is not questioned and cannot be shown to be telling lies.

Nice


No, it is not nice.

I too consider CDV's actions inappropriate. And I do not bother what the law says.

I know people will flame me but I do not think that the Italian habit of kissing at every opportunity is doing the nation any good!


Well I don't mind strangers being warm towards me ordinarily but you cannot have that stuff in the workplace where there are heirarchical positions and in other professional places you cannot allow it either.

The nice thing Chami, that's an Americanism, it means the opposite but I think you must have grasped that, like BAD, when you mean good.

Yes the use of that having her in tears and them comforting with not a single word said about the informality of it when visitors to a prison only get to see loved ones during a set time at that's true in the courtroom, was true in the Perugia court, but then if even a family gets little chance to do the hugging stuff, what the hell are lawyers up to and who do they think they're kidding by turning their professional time & duties into a personal show thing, so it's turn on the tear tap then have them comforting her as if to say there there, poor thing, all of those nasty prosecutors, policemen, witnesses, reports, meanies, friends of the murdered person, scientists, interpreters that bring your words into dispute, those wicked mean lot, there there, see what you are al doing, you are mean and we are kind, there there, don't cry, oh the wicked... with those inclined towards the emotional and or for those inclined towards the minimum of insight and understanding, doing that is potentially a powerful tool to use outside of the actual proceedings, in an attempt at influencing the lay judges directly, and it is really not on to have that taking place.

How do we file an official complaint to stop the theatre, it's not a theatre it is a court of law and the charges are murder.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks to Catnip of .ORG who gave me my first laugh of the day:

Quote:
Any wagers on who Giulia Bongiorno will compare her client’s one-time ex-girlfriend to during closing speeches? The one he couldn’t even remember if he had bonked.

So far there has been Amelie of Seattle, Jessica Rabbit*, and Venus in Furs.


But now, how, exactly, do all the men and women that fall under her spell, see her?

Image
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Thanks to Catnip of .ORG who gave me my first laugh....

But now, how, exactly, do all the men and women that fall under her spell, see her?



This is not a laughing matter. I think there is something imponderable about her and the way wise men and women fall under...

In the middle ages, that would have been called...
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Thanks to Catnip of .ORG who gave me my first laugh....

But now, how, exactly, do all the men and women that fall under her spell, see her?



This is not a laughing matter. I think there is something imponderable about her and the way wise men and women fall under...

In the middle ages, that would have been called...


I knew I'd have to write another thesis just to um, explain my satire, sigh. We did have a lively conversation back in the ORG days about the Amelie in Seattle, Jessica Rabbit, Venus in Furs references by Giulia Bongiorno, and I for one really appreciated her sly Gemini wit and erudition back then. All apropos, and seemingly at the expense of her dim witted client.

But my reply to Catnip's question, what cultural reference will she come up with next? Ann Darrow, in the 1933 movie King Kong. I'm a serious Capricorn, see ;) and so my reply was referring to the concurrent rise of Nazism at that time and the overt racism of the movie, white woman in peril from ape (sorry!) and now we are seeing themes of fascism and racism, more subtle now of course, rising again in the reporting of this case and in the words of some of her supporters. Or that's how I see it, anyways.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Is it safe to call her a "drugged up tart" now? hbc)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Filomena Romanelli, Marco Zaroli, Fiammetta Biscarini, Alessandro Biscarini, Fabio Marsi, Michele Battistelli, Filippo Bartolozzi, and Luca Altieri are available for reading in machine translation as long as you use Chrome. It is not the same as a proper translation but better than nothing.

Also the first 50 pages of Patrizia Stefanoni have been translated and as up.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Mc you must have been working very hard, that takes so much time

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

please remove


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Harry Potter star to play 'Amanda Knox' character in new movie

By Nick Squires, Rome

3:28PM GMT 21 Nov 2013



TELEGRAPH

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Filomena Romanelli, Marco Zaroli, Fiammetta Biscarini, Alessandro Biscarini, Fabio Marsi, Michele Battistelli, Filippo Bartolozzi, and Luca Altieri are available for reading in machine translation as long as you use Chrome. It is not the same as a proper translation but better than nothing.

Also the first 50 pages of Patrizia Stefanoni have been translated and as up.



Thanks, McCall, fantastic job you guys are doing over there!!! :)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Harry Potter star to play 'Amanda Knox' character in new movie

By Nick Squires, Rome

3:28PM GMT 21 Nov 2013



TELEGRAPH



Here she is:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

they look nothing like then insofar as they look way too clean and keep them up 3 nights then see how they look because the effect of that night was like 3 nights of no sleep

god how I hate this film business

Knox is sat there laughing with her chum, like keen on seeing who is involved, all as it does is add to her ego trip, plain Jane's ego trip, it is very out of order, Winterbottom is misguided and insensitive to real life, here the real life bit refers rightly to those affected the most, and that is Meredith's family, he is insensitive in my opinion for using this case to sell his wares, I mean if his wife was dying of cancer and I jumped in and started making a film, how would he like that if he knew all I wanted to do was sell tickets and films?

The case is not even done with yet, and why I am against it, is, for the fact of what has been going on as regards injustice, here meaning what that PR firm ha been up to in the attempt to force matters, to stop justice being done in any way they can, and, it is easy for anyone who really knows about these things, to see that any kind of attention paid to those people is wrong, because the making of a film romanticises Meredith's murder, those around it.

Let's say this case had been dealt/has been dealt with and it is a year or two behind all of the court rulings, in that case, maybe it is possible for someone to come up with a real angle, more angles, but I cannot see how anyone, realistically, can come up with any real angles, the cake hasn't even come out of the oven then there are already people writing books about the process of baking when they do not even know yet what the end result will be, what use is that intermediary ciontent and indo then? None I think.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

One ought to remember/realise that the attacks on Mignini where they have acted in order to try to ruin his name and reputation, is not something limited to him alone, and the character assassination was something I know I, as perhaps one of others, talked about way back when, thus meaning, in 2007 and it was all about what Knox's family and their PR were up to. Then they, seeing it was and is a strong term, took it and reversed it, and kept using it, sloganning then by repeating it, but it was actually and is actually all about their behaviour, they wrre not character assassinated at all, they acted the way they did and the reactions to thios is what went down, nothing else, what the press did is do what they most often do but if they were put down they were shown in a way that is not accurate to the way they are as in portrayed them in ways begging of pity, but theýve been totally inconsiderate, passive where they should have spoken out when seeing attacks on Meredith and her family, they did nothing, because they cheer that on, if they were decent people, and really believed KLnox had nothing to do with this set of crimes they'd say wo-up, stop, they would say stop because they'd have empathy, thing is, they have absolutely no empathy for Meredith's family, they FEEL nothing about it, all as they care about is their family member. This type of behaviour shows total hypocrisy knowing the way they behave, then had it been them in the Kercher family position he world would never have heard the end of it.
So, where they have used blackening Mignini's name as an instrument of defence, the actual attacks are not limited to him alone, because if they find a way they'd transfer it immediately onto the prosecutors in court now, thing is, it is an attack on all of the Italian prosecutors, since all of their claims are absolutely ungrounded, this is why I imagine those who know about this, those in the prosecution departments in Italian, will have realised that what the Knox family has done, and continues to do, is attack all of them, therefore in Florence it seems to me the prosecutors will have done their homework on this, and what if the main prosecutor happens to know Mignini, know that everything said about him is total nonsense, well, in that case, I expect he is going to make no less an animated plea for the guilt of these two equal to that submitted and expressed by Mignini.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Latest from Andrea Vogt: http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featu ... -appeal-2/

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

OMG!!! GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


Perugia: Eight poisoned by carbon monoxide in the house where Meredith was killed

last update: November 24, 12:13

Perugia, November 24th (Adnkronos) Eight people were poisoned by carbon monoxide in the house on Via della Pergola in Perugia where she was killed the British student Meredith Kercher. Among intoxicated, no one in serious condition, there are also two children of one month and one year. This is a Moroccan family that has rented the cottage on the outskirts of Perugia.



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here's more on that story, GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


Perugia monoxide alarm : 11 hospitalizations between Marsciano and St. Justin , 8 in the home of Mez

After the episodes on Saturday admitted that they saw between Marsciano and San Giustino 11 people due to the carbon monoxide , even this night the inhabitants of the famous vileltta end up in hospital


Cold temperatures and the severe economic crisis , they have a close relationship with the last cases of poisoning ( only 11 yesterday) carbon monoxide occurred both in Marsciano that , last night in Perugia, a notorious house , where they consumed the murder of British student Meredith Kercher .

The facts In this case , fortunately, the consequences were less serious than those of the family of north African residents in Marsciano , still hospitalized at St. Mary of Mercy. The 8 occupants of the house on Via della Pergola , in the early morning on Sunday, are still in the hospital Perugia for questioning , as reported in a footnote 's press office of the Hospital of Perugia. The tenant of 2 apartments, a Moroccan aged 24, reported that, after cooking the meat using a brazier , both he and the other occupants , have accused headache and dizziness .

Some special addition to 6 adults , including 3 women , have resorted to the care of health also 2 infants , one just a month old , the other a year . Doctors at the hospital emergency room in Perugia intervened monitoring the patient and waiting for the outcome of the investigations that are still ongoing. The episode of poisoning by carbon monoxide, which has had two distinct phases: during the night , at exactly 4 about the doctor Paola Hare has provided first aid to 3 adults , who occupied the ground floor of the chalet . This morning around 7am another doctor , Barbara Rovella , took charge of two mothers and their children , as well as a man of 23 years.

Updates to mid-morning , two hospitalized for disorders related to the fumes given off by a brazier used for cooking, were discharged from the ward to the emergency room as soon Observation informs you, through the ' press office ' hospital of Perugia , the medical service maximum Sicilians. The two infants are hospitalized in the complex structure of Pediatrics , the other four intoxicated were transferred from the emergency room , after the investigation of the case , in as many different structures of medicine. Their conditions are not of concern . To deal with the conditions of the 4 children (including two residents in Marsciano and hospitalized Friday night) are the doctors of the complex structure of Pediatrics Sebastiani and Edward Lisa Farinelli . Although their conditions do not seem critical .

Earlier in the night between Friday and Saturday eleven people were hospitalized for carbon monoxide poisoning in two separate incidents that required the intervention of the operators of 118. The first alarm is triggered to S. Giustino , where it has been necessary the intervention of several ambulances to rescue seven people who were in a house for the rehearsals of the band to which they belong . The incident occurred around 23 and appears to be a result of a faulty heater that caused more or less severe illnesses of all members of the group. First was rescued a 40 year old woman living in Sansepolcro and retained in the department of the hospital tifernate short observation .

Then all the other inmates have accused disorders of the respiratory system and in coordination with the staff of the central 118 were transferred to the hospital's hyperbaric chamber Fano , where they were treated and returned Saturday morning in Città di Castello where are hospitalized . Their conditions should be monitored but are excluded serious consequences. Of the group of friends, musicians to delight , were part of a 53 year old man 's daughter, 31 , and two other young men , respectively 33 and 30 years living in Monterchi and Sansepolcro .

Marsciano The second episode , in a completely different area of ​​the province of Perugia , occurred in Marsciano where a whole family of Moroccan origin has also been admitted to the hospital , this time at St. Mary of Mercy, for the same reason : intoxication carbon monoxide. The panel 118 through the press office of the Hospital has announced that in addition to the two parents of 39 and 33, are also admitted their two sons aged nine and seven years. Their conditions are not of particular concern in healthcare . The family first aid kit was initially aimed at the service of emergency medical Marsciano and then, after the first treatment , were transferred to S. Mary of Mercy. Inentrambi cases have taken the men of the fire brigade to isolate the cause of the poisoning .



UMBRIA24

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Lucky nobody died. Brazier inside the house? Dangerous.
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/03 ... -students/
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I guess the court proceeedings will get underway early on in the morning

Time now in:

Tokio Japan 01:32
Sydney Australia 03:39
Calgary 09:32
New York 11:32
London 16:32
Florence: 17:32
Amsterdam 17:32
Paris 17:32
Rome 17:32
Berlin 17:32
Stockholm 17:32
Moscow 20:32
New Delhi 22:02

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

When it is 09:00 am in Florence, Italy, the following times will apply in
London 08:00
Amsterdam 09:00
Calgary 01:00 (UTC - 7 hours)
New York 03:00 (UTC - 5 hours)
Paris 09:00
Rome 09:00
Lisbon 08:00

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Florence 09:00 am
London 08:00


I believe your computer is not NTP sync'd. Else you took loooong time to post after checking the time!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
zorba wrote:
Florence 09:00 am
London 08:00


I believe your computer is not NTP sync'd. Else you took loooong time to post after checking the time!



The posts are about the time differences Chami, I said ''the time now'' in the first post, at the time of posting thus, and the time of day had no relevance at all when I wrote.

The second post I thought was obvious (maybe not though) what it is about, the time it will be at 9 in Florence and the times it will be elsewhere. There's a 1 hour time difference between London and Firenze, while in Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin it'll be the same time, while in New York and Calgary it'll be in the middle of the night some time.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Z. Yeah, the clock is ticking.

I'm really looking forward to Carlo Pacelli's (Patrick's lawyer) closing speech. He may have a reputation for being ornery, however, he is definitely a professional, and his sharp tongue is feared by Knoxites.

It's not just his fiery attitude and tenacity; he doesn't mince words and says exactly what he thinks when expressing his opinion about Knox, i.e. doesn't work around it delicately, is direct to a fault (a rare quality in a lawyer) and doesn't care what anyone thinks. Patrick is lucky to have him as his "defender." :)

Carlo Pacelli wrote:
We are convinced that AK lies and slanders ... If the trial consists only of declarations of AK, where do we get? Error or Truth?

Donnino was described maliciously and transformed from middle person to “medium”...

AK's statements were not suggested. Amanda was never hit also. Slander of Lumumba is a card attached with glue.

Amanda Knox, the diabolic slanderer. She is the cause of indignation and pain suffered by PL; she is the slanderer; that wind that blows tells you to judge her with no mercy as AK slandered with no mercy.


Here's hoping that Popper and Yummi will summarize closing arguments for us as they did last time, back in 2011 -->> viewtopic.php?p=100299#p100299

Cheers to that!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The forum's default of UTC + 1 hour does not show the correct time, I just saw, as on my computer it is showing UTC + 2 hours. Right now it is 20:26 but the board is showing 21:26, somehow!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi Guer that may well be very true, I didn't look into him a lot, but the rest, it's not as if any, no none, have actually done anything brilliant, like someone able to show acutely sharp angles, Bongiorno included, I think her main tool is deviation, diverting people's attention away from what is vitally important, whether it be by means of entering a herd of elephants or other, elephants is or was introducing such filthy bastards like those she brought in as witnesses, could they have ever had any value, credibility, NOPE , but she did not bring them in for that, she brought in anything she could to confuse matters.
It is the ONLY thing that can make sense as to her reasons for bring in a bunch of bastards who were worse than Knox and Sollecito, whatever could the meaning be other than to sow confusion?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

so

if things have become very sharply focused and not in your favour as defence counsel, it doesn't matter at that point if you bring in preposterously awful witnesses, as long as you lead people away from what they might have been able to add up from what they was getting to see from good prosecutorial reasoning, when it was good, destroy it fast, thus the bringing in of the most awful people imaginable, most thought what the hell, however, she knew what it would do for her, and that's to lead away from the focus that was doing harm to her lines of well I will not say reasoning, but her lines. Her main quality is deviousness.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


Murder Meredith: power of attorney to request a life sentence in Italy for Kercher verdict

last update: November 24, 14:40

Perugia, November 24 - (Adnkronos) - The deputy prosecutor general of Florence Alessandro Horsehair could ask for a life sentence for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in his indictment of tomorrow. The magistrate in fact, by virtue of an aggravating connected to the conviction of Amanda Knox for slander, you may proceed to request the highest penalty for the two ex-boyfriends, convicted and then acquitted for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher.



ADNKRONOS

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:37 pm   Post subject: ADMINISTRATOR NOTE:   

Administrator Note:

Throughout the weekend PMF has been under a heavy and sustained attack by spam bots, of Russian/Ukranian origin. Over the last 48 hours, fifty spam bots (and counting) have joined the forum and have quickly been banned by me before they've managed actually post any spam...so far. I've taken some measures to limit their potential numbers but still they come. Whilst you may not have seen any spam, some of you may have experienced some board slow downs, error messages or other strange board behaviour. That may continue for some time, it's just a case of weathering the storm. If I raise the board's defenses too high, then genuine potential new members may find it impossible or off-puttingly difficult to register an account, therefore I need to strike a balance. With the appeal about to restart, this bot swarm has come at a very bad time but I'm managing to keep on top of it. If therefore, you note that I'm quieter then you'd expect at this time, it is down to my preoccupation with protecting the board from this attack which is constant, but know that I'm still here.

Thank You

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:50 am   Post subject: Re: ADMINISTRATOR NOTE:   

Michael wrote:
Administrator Note:

Throughout the weekend PMF has been under a heavy and sustained attack by spam bots, of Russian/Ukranian origin. Over the last 48 hours, fifty spam bots (and counting) have joined the forum and have quickly been banned by me before they've managed actually post any spam...so far. I've taken some measures to limit their potential numbers but still they come. Whilst you may not have seen any spam, some of you may have experienced some board slow downs, error messages or other strange board behaviour. That may continue for some time, it's just a case of weathering the storm. If I raise the board's defenses too high, then genuine potential new members may find it impossible or off-puttingly difficult to register an account, therefore I need to strike a balance. With the appeal about to restart, this bot swarm has come at a very bad time but I'm managing to keep on top of it. If therefore, you note that I'm quieter then you'd expect at this time, it is down to my preoccupation with protecting the board from this attack which is constant, but know that I'm still here.

Thank You


Thank you so much for keeping the board up, running and clean. Your hard work and dedication to justice for Meredith is truly appreciated.

Can we expect some movement on the case in a few hours?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


Murder Meredith: power of attorney to request a life sentence in Italy for Kercher verdict

last update: November 24, 14:40

Perugia, November 24 - (Adnkronos) - The deputy prosecutor general of Florence Alessandro Horsehair could ask for a life sentence for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in his indictment of tomorrow. The magistrate in fact, by virtue of an aggravating connected to the conviction of Amanda Knox for slander, you may proceed to request the highest penalty for the two ex-boyfriends, convicted and then acquitted for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher.



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It's the only sentence that could ever fit their crimes.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Thank you so much for keeping the board up, running and clean. Your hard work and dedication to justice for Meredith is truly appreciated.

Can we expect some movement on the case in a few hours?


You are welcome, but it's all part and parcel of being an Admin. I just wish it didn't happen during court hearings.

Well, hopefully things will get moving in a few hours when the Appeal restarts. On the agenda is the summing up by the prosecution and they are expected to request the conviction be upheld and the convictions (at least in the case of Knox) be increased to life.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


Murder Meredith: power of attorney to request a life sentence in Italy for Kercher verdict

last update: November 24, 14:40

Perugia, November 24 - (Adnkronos) - The deputy prosecutor general of Florence Alessandro Horsehair could ask for a life sentence for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in his indictment of tomorrow. The magistrate in fact, by virtue of an aggravating connected to the conviction of Amanda Knox for slander, you may proceed to request the highest penalty for the two ex-boyfriends, convicted and then acquitted for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher.



ADNKRONOS


It's the only sentence that could ever fit their crimes.


I am truly looking forward to this stage of the trial. I've noticed that the Knox is Amelie crowd have been squirming out of every crack on the world wide web with earnest efforts to re-write history.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Jester wrote:
Thank you so much for keeping the board up, running and clean. Your hard work and dedication to justice for Meredith is truly appreciated.

Can we expect some movement on the case in a few hours?


You are welcome, but it's all part and parcel of being an Admin. I just wish it didn't happen during court hearings.

Well, hopefully things will get moving in a few hours when the Appeal restarts. On the agenda is the summing up by the prosecution and they are expected to request the conviction be upheld and the convictions (at least in the case of Knox) be increased to life.


Excellent! I'm very curious how the DNA evidence will be summarized and how much weight it will given in comparison to other circumstantial evidence. On the one hand, we know that there is ample DNA evidence, but on the other hand, we have repeatedly read that because Knox's DNA was found on the murder weapon, there is no DNA. I'm not sure how that works, but that is what has been repeatedly stated.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I guess this appeal is in fact one requested somehow by both parties, first by Knox & Sollecito, but that was annuled, and then by the prosecution to fight that, and now again by Knox & Sollecito, I'm not sure the prosecution asked for an appeal after the Hellmann ruling was thrown out, because had no one asked for an appeal then their original sentence would have applied, I think, so this appeal is the result of both appealing, at different times, that has led to this, and so then the prosecution can ask for an increase, if only Knox & Sollecito had appealed, then the sentence could be reduced but not increased, at least as far as I could find out in the Italian Penal Code a few weeks ago.

In fact it seems the Supreme Court took a grave view of the idea the pair of them deserved any kind of mitigation, ruling that the aggravated circumstances must be worked into the whole, so that bit means the judges are even more aware of what they are supposed to be doing, and it does not look good for Knox and Sollecito.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
I guess this appeal is in fact one requested somehow by both parties, first by Knox & Sollecito, but that was annuled, and then by the prosecution to fight that, and now again by Knox & Sollecito, I'm not sure the prosecution asked for an appeal after the Hellmann ruling was throuwn out, because had no one asked for an appeal then thir original sentence would have applied, I think, so this appeal is the result of both appealing, at different times, that has led to this, and so then the prosecution can ask for an increase, if only Knox & Sollecito had appealed, then the sentence could be reduced but not increased, at least as far as I ciould fins out in the Italian POenal Code a few weeks ago.

In fact it seems the Supreme Court took a grave view of the idea the pair of them deserved any kind of mitigation, ruling that the aggravated circumstances must be worked into the whole, so that bit means the judges are even more aware of what they are supposed to be doing, and it does not look good for Knox and Sollecito.


And rightly so. When Sollecito gave his courtroom soliloquy, I noticed one of the females on the panel appearing empathetic. I'm assuming that although the judges could be swayed emotionally by the damage that the culprits have caused to their own lives, they will be required to view the totality of evidence and that, within that context, it will be impossible to overturn the original verdicts. That's my hope, at least.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANSLATION:


Murder Meredith: power of attorney to request a life sentence in Italy for Kercher verdict

last update: November 24, 14:40

Perugia, November 24 - (Adnkronos) - The deputy prosecutor general of Florence Alessandro Horsehair could ask for a life sentence for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in his indictment of tomorrow. The magistrate in fact, by virtue of an aggravating connected to the conviction of Amanda Knox for slander, you may proceed to request the highest penalty for the two ex-boyfriends, convicted and then acquitted for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher.



ADNKRONOS


It's the only sentence that could ever fit their crimes.


I am truly looking forward to this stage of the trial. I've noticed that the Knox is Amelie crowd have been squirming out of every crack on the world wide web with earnest efforts to re-write history.



Likewise, here too, well her PR machinery has tried to portray it that way,by portray I man put out a mnibnterpretation of rthe significance of that last kno test, it was nothing, it is nothing like what they aaid, they would have everyone believe the prosecution most definitely assumed there must be Meredith's DNA in a second trace, but when in the world did the prosecution ever say such a thing, hint at such a thing? Never is the answer, they just wanted whatever there was to be records.

The truth is, Knox would have been terrified as was Sollecito that indeed more of Meredit'hs DNA was on the knife.

Meredith's DNA is on the knife and Stefanoni made it very clear how she arrived at her conclusions.
That has no been disqualified even though Knox's PR tries to make up what is reality while living in dreamland, they like to get it in the media to misinform people, so they make stuff up all the time that has nothing to do with anything and then when a result comes out they pretend it is meaningful for them, when it is not, the extra trace of Knox only goes to show that she was the one that handled that knife when it got Meredith's trace on it, because imagine the coincidence/chances, that of all places, in all of Sollecito's home, the knife was the one and only place to end up with a Meredith DNA trace on it.

One would have to be stupid, to believe the nutty professor guy from Idaho in his strange behaviour and actually wrongful behaviour in secretly using American money for Knox.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
I guess this appeal is in fact one requested somehow by both parties, first by Knox & Sollecito, but that was annuled, and then by the prosecution to fight that, and now again by Knox & Sollecito, I'm not sure the prosecution asked for an appeal after the Hellmann ruling was throuwn out, because had no one asked for an appeal then thir original sentence would have applied, I think, so this appeal is the result of both appealing, at different times, that has led to this, and so then the prosecution can ask for an increase, if only Knox & Sollecito had appealed, then the sentence could be reduced but not increased, at least as far as I ciould fins out in the Italian POenal Code a few weeks ago.

In fact it seems the Supreme Court took a grave view of the idea the pair of them deserved any kind of mitigation, ruling that the aggravated circumstances must be worked into the whole, so that bit means the judges are even more aware of what they are supposed to be doing, and it does not look good for Knox and Sollecito.


And rightly so. When Sollecito gave his courtroom soliloquy, I noticed one of the females on the panel appearing empathetic. I'm assuming that although the judges could be swayed emotionally by the damage that the culprits have caused to their own lives, they will be required to view the totality of evidence and that, within that context, it will be impossible to overturn the original verdicts. That's my hope, at least.



Yes me too Jester.

But let's not forget, these lay judges will be shown all of the evidence, which means photographs of Meredith sprawled out dead, and this time the judge it seems is not going to be doing illegally motivated things to try to push the blame onto someone else, like Hellmann did, totally disregarding the fact the high court had already ruled that Guede did not act alone, Hellmann carried out his actions as if his own advisor was Knox's PR machine itself, now too, what with the extra damage the pair have done to themselves by being so inconsiderate and hypocritical complaining about everyone and everything including the media but being the ones who had actively sought to use the media I think if the judge is good he is going to open the eyes of the lay judges as to what all of the evidence means, after the prosecution has its say and after they have listened to Knox's victim's counsel say what Knox did to Patrick.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So if Sollecito was going to make any impression those photos will create much more of an impression to bring those lay judges back down to ground and to realise his words are hollow if one considers all of the evidence and his very strange actions, not part of the time, but all of the time since arrest.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
I am truly looking forward to this stage of the trial. I've noticed that the Knox is Amelie crowd have been squirming out of every crack on the world wide web with earnest efforts to re-write history.



Likewise, here too, well her PR machinery has tried to portray it that way,by portray I man put out a mnibnterpretation of rthe significance of that last kno test, it was nothing, it is nothing like what they aaid, they would have everyone believe the prosecution most definitely assumed there must be Meredith's DNA in a second trace, but when in the world did the prosecution ever say such a thing, hint at such a thing? Never is the answer, they just wanted whatever there was to be records.

The truth is, Knox would have been terrified as was Sollecito that indeed more of Meredit'hs DNA was on the knife.

Meredith's DNA is on the knife and Stefanoni made it very clear how she arrived at her conclusions.
That has no been disqualified even though Knox's PR tries to make up what is reality while living in dreamland, they like to get it in the media to misinform people, so they make stuff up all the time that has nothing to do with anything and then when a result comes out they pretend it is meaningful for them, when it is not, the extra trace of Knox only goes to show that she was the one that handled that knife when it got Meredith's trace on it, because imagine the coincidence/chances, that of all places, in all of Sollecito's home, the knife was the one and only place to end up with a Meredith DNA trace on it.

One would have to be stupid, to believe the nutty professor guy from Idaho in his strange behaviour and actually wrongful behaviour in secretly using American money for Knox.


I've been surprised at the efforts to misinform, as there appears to be no shame in omitting critical facts during debate. As a child, I had a friend whose father was a religious speaker. He attempted to debate the contents of the Bible with me. His modus operandi was "believe", don't think, don't question. When I presented a counter example to his claim, quoting a different part of the Bible, he would change the subject to some other religious propaganda. The discussion surrounding this case seems similar in that when a hole is poked in one claim, the topic instantly switched to some other claim. It's as illogical as Hellman.

The nutty professor is a hired gun. If he's hired to validate DNA, he validates. If he's hired to invalidate, he invalidates.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
So if Sollecito was going to make any impression those photos will create much more of an impression to bring those lay judges back down to ground and to realise his words are hollow if one considers all of the evidence and his very strange actions, not part of the time, but all of the time since arrest.


At the very least, within Sollecito's statement to the court, is an acknowledgement that by his actions he destroyed his own life. It is clear that he feels sorry for himself while denying that he in any way interfered with Meredith's life or the investigation into her death.

Do we know if he will continue to attend the trial, or whether he has again fled the country?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
I am truly looking forward to this stage of the trial. I've noticed that the Knox is Amelie crowd have been squirming out of every crack on the world wide web with earnest efforts to re-write history.



Likewise, here too, well her PR machinery has tried to portray it that way,by portray I man put out a mnibnterpretation of rthe significance of that last kno test, it was nothing, it is nothing like what they aaid, they would have everyone believe the prosecution most definitely assumed there must be Meredith's DNA in a second trace, but when in the world did the prosecution ever say such a thing, hint at such a thing? Never is the answer, they just wanted whatever there was to be records.

The truth is, Knox would have been terrified as was Sollecito that indeed more of Meredit'hs DNA was on the knife.

Meredith's DNA is on the knife and Stefanoni made it very clear how she arrived at her conclusions.
That has no been disqualified even though Knox's PR tries to make up what is reality while living in dreamland, they like to get it in the media to misinform people, so they make stuff up all the time that has nothing to do with anything and then when a result comes out they pretend it is meaningful for them, when it is not, the extra trace of Knox only goes to show that she was the one that handled that knife when it got Meredith's trace on it, because imagine the coincidence/chances, that of all places, in all of Sollecito's home, the knife was the one and only place to end up with a Meredith DNA trace on it.

One would have to be stupid, to believe the nutty professor guy from Idaho in his strange behaviour and actually wrongful behaviour in secretly using American money for Knox.


I've been surprised at the efforts to misinform, as there appears to be no shame in omitting critical facts during debate. As a child, I had a friend whose father was a religious speaker. He attempted to debate the contents of the Bible with me. His modus operandi was "believe", don't think, don't question. When I presented a counter example to his claim, quoting a different part of the Bible, he would change the subject to some other religious propaganda. The discussion surrounding this case seems similar in that when a hole is poked in one claim, the topic instantly switched to some other claim. It's as illogical as Hellman.

The nutty professor is a hired gun. If he's hired to validate DNA, he validates. If he's hired to invalidate, he invalidates.



I haven't been too surpirsed in fact not surpised at all, since those tools are the only ones they have, and they knew it.

Also, if you think back to the moment Bongiorno introduced the strangest witnesses, so like anyone with half a mind was thinking, huh, how can that help the defence, but she knew what she was doing, because at that moment things were showing up far too well for the prosecution and she knew she had to do something, anything to confuse and distract, it did not matter that the witnesses she introduced were viewed by people on both sides as being simply terrible, she did not ever use them with the aim of having them believed, she had one aim and that was to tire out the already tired courtroom attendees, meaning, most vitally, tiring for the lay judges, they already had so much to process in their minds, but then she brought in totally insane types of people, and just that act, irrespective of what they said, was enough to distract away from what had been said, or was being said up until then by the prosecution and all of the other witnesses. So I guess her shrewdness is doing twisted stuff like that to somehow affect some thing, but contrary to this reputation she seems to have had, she did not seem to be able to fool those who she needed to, most of the time. The now presiding judge apparently has far far far more experience of criminal trials than Hellmann, in fact Hellmann had none, and what he was doing in court in such a serious case, is nuts in itself.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
So if Sollecito was going to make any impression those photos will create much more of an impression to bring those lay judges back down to ground and to realise his words are hollow if one considers all of the evidence and his very strange actions, not part of the time, but all of the time since arrest.


At the very least, within Sollecito's statement to the court, is an acknowledgement that by his actions he destroyed his own life. It is clear that he feels sorry for himself while denying that he in any way interfered with Meredith's life or the investigation into her death.

Do we know if he will continue to attend the trial, or whether he has again fled the country?


He has been saying he'll be sticking around, I personally do not believe it, I reckon he has an escape route planned, meaning he can put out that he is presently at papa's residence, my view is that he will be hidden, and ready to run, if the ruling goes against him, he is acting, trying to play this honest and honourable innocent guy, and all that nonsense about going to the prison himself ready for them to pick him up, instead, as soon as he knows, that it is going against him, if it does, he will be gone, that's what I think, since no way is he going to accept anything the court says that is against him, I mean he has not up until now accepted anything, he has not respected anything the courts said against him, and not just the courts, but has not respected anyone or anything, so what is about to change? Nothing that's what.


And yes, he could already have run off again.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
I am truly looking forward to this stage of the trial. I've noticed that the Knox is Amelie crowd have been squirming out of every crack on the world wide web with earnest efforts to re-write history.



Likewise, here too, well her PR machinery has tried to portray it that way,by portray I man put out a mnibnterpretation of rthe significance of that last kno test, it was nothing, it is nothing like what they aaid, they would have everyone believe the prosecution most definitely assumed there must be Meredith's DNA in a second trace, but when in the world did the prosecution ever say such a thing, hint at such a thing? Never is the answer, they just wanted whatever there was to be records.

The truth is, Knox would have been terrified as was Sollecito that indeed more of Meredit'hs DNA was on the knife.

Meredith's DNA is on the knife and Stefanoni made it very clear how she arrived at her conclusions.
That has no been disqualified even though Knox's PR tries to make up what is reality while living in dreamland, they like to get it in the media to misinform people, so they make stuff up all the time that has nothing to do with anything and then when a result comes out they pretend it is meaningful for them, when it is not, the extra trace of Knox only goes to show that she was the one that handled that knife when it got Meredith's trace on it, because imagine the coincidence/chances, that of all places, in all of Sollecito's home, the knife was the one and only place to end up with a Meredith DNA trace on it.

One would have to be stupid, to believe the nutty professor guy from Idaho in his strange behaviour and actually wrongful behaviour in secretly using American money for Knox.


I've been surprised at the efforts to misinform, as there appears to be no shame in omitting critical facts during debate. As a child, I had a friend whose father was a religious speaker. He attempted to debate the contents of the Bible with me. His modus operandi was "believe", don't think, don't question. When I presented a counter example to his claim, quoting a different part of the Bible, he would change the subject to some other religious propaganda. The discussion surrounding this case seems similar in that when a hole is poked in one claim, the topic instantly switched to some other claim. It's as illogical as Hellman.

The nutty professor is a hired gun. If he's hired to validate DNA, he validates. If he's hired to invalidate, he invalidates.



I haven't been too surpirsed in fact not surpised at all, since those tools are the only ones they have, and they knew it.

Also, if you think back to the moment Bongiorno introduced the strangest witnesses, so like anyone with half a mind was thinking, huh, how can that help the defence, but she knew what she was doing, because at that moment things were showing up far too well for the prosecution and she knew she had to do something, anything to confuse and distract, it did not matter that the witnesses she introduced were viewed by people on both sides as being simply terrible, she did not ever use them with the aim of having them believed, she had one aim and that was to tire out the already tired courtroom attendees, meaning, most vitally, tiring for the lay judges, they already had so much to process in their minds, but then she brought in totally insane types of people, and just that act, irrespective of what they said, was enough to distract away from what had been said, or was being said up until then by the prosecution and all of the other witnesses. So I guess her shrewdness is doing twisted stuff like that to somehow affect some thing, but contrary to this reputation she seems to have had, she did not seem to be able to fool those who she needed to, most of the time. The now presiding judge apparently has far far far more experience of criminal trials than Hellmann, in fact Hellmann had none, and what he was doing in court in such a serious case, is nuts in itself.



I remember when Bongiorno essentially admitted that more than one person was involved in the murder. I wonder how she's going to interpret Sollecito's short fingernails. Her unusual request to have that photo admitted into evidence left everyone scratching their heads.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
So if Sollecito was going to make any impression those photos will create much more of an impression to bring those lay judges back down to ground and to realise his words are hollow if one considers all of the evidence and his very strange actions, not part of the time, but all of the time since arrest.


At the very least, within Sollecito's statement to the court, is an acknowledgement that by his actions he destroyed his own life. It is clear that he feels sorry for himself while denying that he in any way interfered with Meredith's life or the investigation into her death.

Do we know if he will continue to attend the trial, or whether he has again fled the country?


He has been saying he'll be sticking around, I personally do not believe it, I reckon he has an escape route planned, meaning he can put out that he is presently at papa's residence, my view is that he will be hidden, and ready to run, if the ruling goes against him, he is acting, trying to play this honest and honourable innocent guy, and all that nonsense about going to the prison himself ready for them to pick him up, instead, as soon as he knows, that it is going against him, if it does, he will be gone, that's what I think, since no way is he going to accept anything the court says that is against him, I mean he has not up until now accepted anything, he has not respected anything the courts said against him, and not just the courts, but has not respected anyone or anything, so what is about to change? Nothing that's what.


And yes, he could already have run off again.


He'd be a fool to stick around and risk losing his freedom, since he's now in a position to hold onto it. I wonder if he purchased property in the Dominican Republic when he was there. Isn't there some law that if the person is a resident prior to a conviction, then extradiction is unlikely?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
I am truly looking forward to this stage of the trial. I've noticed that the Knox is Amelie crowd have been squirming out of every crack on the world wide web with earnest efforts to re-write history.



Likewise, here too, well her PR machinery has tried to portray it that way,by portray I man put out a mnibnterpretation of rthe significance of that last kno test, it was nothing, it is nothing like what they aaid, they would have everyone believe the prosecution most definitely assumed there must be Meredith's DNA in a second trace, but when in the world did the prosecution ever say such a thing, hint at such a thing? Never is the answer, they just wanted whatever there was to be records.

The truth is, Knox would have been terrified as was Sollecito that indeed more of Meredit'hs DNA was on the knife.

Meredith's DNA is on the knife and Stefanoni made it very clear how she arrived at her conclusions.
That has no been disqualified even though Knox's PR tries to make up what is reality while living in dreamland, they like to get it in the media to misinform people, so they make stuff up all the time that has nothing to do with anything and then when a result comes out they pretend it is meaningful for them, when it is not, the extra trace of Knox only goes to show that she was the one that handled that knife when it got Meredith's trace on it, because imagine the coincidence/chances, that of all places, in all of Sollecito's home, the knife was the one and only place to end up with a Meredith DNA trace on it.

One would have to be stupid, to believe the nutty professor guy from Idaho in his strange behaviour and actually wrongful behaviour in secretly using American money for Knox.


I've been surprised at the efforts to misinform, as there appears to be no shame in omitting critical facts during debate. As a child, I had a friend whose father was a religious speaker. He attempted to debate the contents of the Bible with me. His modus operandi was "believe", don't think, don't question. When I presented a counter example to his claim, quoting a different part of the Bible, he would change the subject to some other religious propaganda. The discussion surrounding this case seems similar in that when a hole is poked in one claim, the topic instantly switched to some other claim. It's as illogical as Hellman.

The nutty professor is a hired gun. If he's hired to validate DNA, he validates. If he's hired to invalidate, he invalidates.



I haven't been too surpirsed in fact not surpised at all, since those tools are the only ones they have, and they knew it.

Also, if you think back to the moment Bongiorno introduced the strangest witnesses, so like anyone with half a mind was thinking, huh, how can that help the defence, but she knew what she was doing, because at that moment things were showing up far too well for the prosecution and she knew she had to do something, anything to confuse and distract, it did not matter that the witnesses she introduced were viewed by people on both sides as being simply terrible, she did not ever use them with the aim of having them believed, she had one aim and that was to tire out the already tired courtroom attendees, meaning, most vitally, tiring for the lay judges, they already had so much to process in their minds, but then she brought in totally insane types of people, and just that act, irrespective of what they said, was enough to distract away from what had been said, or was being said up until then by the prosecution and all of the other witnesses. So I guess her shrewdness is doing twisted stuff like that to somehow affect some thing, but contrary to this reputation she seems to have had, she did not seem to be able to fool those who she needed to, most of the time. The now presiding judge apparently has far far far more experience of criminal trials than Hellmann, in fact Hellmann had none, and what he was doing in court in such a serious case, is nuts in itself.



I remember when Bongiorno essentially admitted that more than one person was involved in the murder. I wonder how she's going to interpret Sollecito's short fingernails. Her unusual request to have that photo admitted into evidence left everyone scratching their heads.



She planned his defence to leave her options open, so never fully on board the Knox ship, she left it open.

Guede's lawyer did the best for his client yet if Guede had not had that evidence against him, then likely he too would have walked the same way Knox and Sollecito have by denying everything, it went/it worked out best for him as regards length of sentence, however, considering he knows the truth about the murder, and doesn't reveal it, he is not a hair better than them and actually got off far too lightly.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
So if Sollecito was going to make any impression those photos will create much more of an impression to bring those lay judges back down to ground and to realise his words are hollow if one considers all of the evidence and his very strange actions, not part of the time, but all of the time since arrest.


At the very least, within Sollecito's statement to the court, is an acknowledgement that by his actions he destroyed his own life. It is clear that he feels sorry for himself while denying that he in any way interfered with Meredith's life or the investigation into her death.

Do we know if he will continue to attend the trial, or whether he has again fled the country?


He has been saying he'll be sticking around, I personally do not believe it, I reckon he has an escape route planned, meaning he can put out that he is presently at papa's residence, my view is that he will be hidden, and ready to run, if the ruling goes against him, he is acting, trying to play this honest and honourable innocent guy, and all that nonsense about going to the prison himself ready for them to pick him up, instead, as soon as he knows, that it is going against him, if it does, he will be gone, that's what I think, since no way is he going to accept anything the court says that is against him, I mean he has not up until now accepted anything, he has not respected anything the courts said against him, and not just the courts, but has not respected anyone or anything, so what is about to change? Nothing that's what.


And yes, he could already have run off again.


He'd be a fool to stick around and risk losing his freedom, since he's now in a position to hold onto it. I wonder if he purchased property in the Dominican Republic when he was there. Isn't there some law that if the person is a resident prior to a conviction, then extradiction is unlikely?



I think there is no extradition treaty with the Dominican Republic, his words on it, so fake, of all places he goes to the one place without an extradition treaty then acts as if he is hounded, on his holidays, his stay at his DEAR friends, bla bla, his DEAR papa, his DEAR friends, I reckon it's there he will go or maybe there already, attending court has been an atrempt to come across as Mr Law-Abiding Citizen Innocent Honourable Guy Damaged by everyone against him, free handkerchiefs HERE.

I don't know if I can say he'd be a fool, as going on and on and on telling lies that's the foolish part, but yes, I cannot see him hanging around when he has a way out and that way out is by going on the run, once he is back in jail he will never get that chance again. I say he should instead own up to everything.

Chance of that now, no chance.
But in a certain situation, that of being locked up for good, he's going to become very accusative against Knox.
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I have to get back to bed went to bed 9.30 woke up at 1 but have to work today and need the sleep so will try again to get the other half of the sleep quota.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
He'd be a fool to stick around and risk losing his freedom, since he's now in a position to hold onto it. I wonder if he purchased property in the Dominican Republic when he was there. Isn't there some law that if the person is a resident prior to a conviction, then extradiction is unlikely?



I think there is no extradition treaty with the Dominican Republic, his words on it, so fake, of all places he goes to the one place without an extradition treaty then acts as if he is hounded, on his holidays, his stay at his DEAR friends, bla bla, his DEAR papa, his DEAR friends, I reckon it's there he will go or maybe there already, attending court has been an atrempt to come across as Mr Law-Abiding Citizen Innocent Honourable Guy Damaged by everyone against him, free handkerchiefs HERE.

I don't know if I can say he'd be a fool, as going on and on and on telling lies that's the foolish part, but yes, I cannot see him hanging around when he has a way out and that way out is by going on the run, once he is back in jail he will never get that chance again. I say he should instead own up to everything.

Chance of that now, no chance.
But in a certain situation, that of being locked up for good, he's going to become very accusative against Knox.
________________________

I have to get back to bed went to bed 9.30 woke up at 1 but have to work today and need the sleep so will try again to get the other half of the sleep quota.


Thanks. If the conviction is upheld, he will no longer be able to cross borders. His only chance to do that, as far as I can see, is before the decision is made. If the conviction is overturned, he can return home. I suppose that means he's home for Christmas and then all things are possible.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Good Morning Florence!

Presumably everyone is dressed and on their way to the courtroom.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Do we have anyone twittering from the courtroom?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hey, is it 9 o'clock, or 8 o'clock?
~ in Florence.

What's the weather like?
Is everyone still sleeping?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 38s

New PM in new appeal 4 #amandaknox expected to ask judge to consider evidence in 1st trial over evidence in 1st appeal in closing arguments.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Good morning. I'm going to check out what's going on now. Stand by :)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 5m
Waiting for the process Meredith @ Meredithnazione

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La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 2m
Meredith process, today is the day for the prosecution. Sollecito is in the courtroom
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This is a court that likes very late starts, long dinner breaks and early finishes!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 6m

R Sollecito is in courtroom . the Chief Prosecutor is in room too.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Hey, is it 9 o'clock, or 8 o'clock?
~ in Florence.

What's the weather like?
...


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Weather in Florence.JPG


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m
Will prosecutors ask life sentences in #amandaknox appeal today? Will Sollecito's presence in court benefit him? Verdict January 10.

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 13m
Meredith process, Raffaele Sollecito in court

Image
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Headaches for people who use google translate. First prosecutor Comodi and now prosecutor Crini :lol:
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki now

Crini: this appeal is unusual, not because of the case but for the course followed. Usually appeals are narrow, this SC annulment is not

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m

Crini: SC censure was against the foundings (sic) of appeal, all parts not just some errors; appeal was 'razed to ground'.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Keep it coming. I'm liking it so far. Consider the conclusions of the trial rather than the appeal.
Updates are much appreciated!


Last edited by Jester on Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm clearly wasting my time, you carry on Guermantes.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 10m
Meredith trial, Prosecutor Crini: "Cassazione censored broad spectrum of appeal sentence"

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 4m
Meredith trial, Prosecutor Crini: "Do not atomize, but bring together all the elements of the process"

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 4s
Meredith trial, Prosecutor Crini addresses the issue of Knox and Sollecito's alibis, on whether or not they were present at the crime scene
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 8m
Crini attacks the method of logic reasoning of annulled appeal, parcelling out evidence, parrots aspects of civil procedure

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
Crini: first theme he deals with is presence at crime scene; alibi, if it's false it is evidence no matter why false (cite from Guede trial)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Maresca and Crini at today's hearing:

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Sollecito gave computer alibi days later, and words his statement in the singular form
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 2m
Meredith process, the court says that the declarations of Sollecito to the magistrate can not be used

???

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 30s
Nencini notes prosecution did not ask to interrogate Sollecito. Crini cites D'Ambrosio's computer expert report. No interaction before 5am

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Crini: failure of computer alibi is evidence against, not just lack of confirmation.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Hey, is it 9 o'clock, or 8 o'clock?
~ in Florence.

What's the weather like?
Is everyone still sleeping?



Somehow the board's time/clock is incorrect, CTU + 1 hour means it is now 11:24 not 12:24, so the board is showing CTU + 2 hours which is Athens, Greece time, etc.

It is now 11:25 in Florence, if I'm not mistaken, my post will show the time as being an hour later.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 5m
Meredith process, Prosecutor Crini reminds the court that there is no evidence that Sollecito used his PC the night Meredith was killed

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 59s
Crini cites the log files of Fastweb: no internet activity, only automatic connections.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Hey, is it 9 o'clock, or 8 o'clock?
~ in Florence.

What's the weather like?
Is everyone still sleeping?


When you posted this it was 09:14 instead of 10:14

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
zorba wrote:
Jester wrote:
He'd be a fool to stick around and risk losing his freedom, since he's now in a position to hold onto it. I wonder if he purchased property in the Dominican Republic when he was there. Isn't there some law that if the person is a resident prior to a conviction, then extradiction is unlikely?



I think there is no extradition treaty with the Dominican Republic, his words on it, so fake, of all places he goes to the one place without an extradition treaty then acts as if he is hounded, on his holidays, his stay at his DEAR friends, bla bla, his DEAR papa, his DEAR friends, I reckon it's there he will go or maybe there already, attending court has been an atrempt to come across as Mr Law-Abiding Citizen Innocent Honourable Guy Damaged by everyone against him, free handkerchiefs HERE.

I don't know if I can say he'd be a fool, as going on and on and on telling lies that's the foolish part, but yes, I cannot see him hanging around when he has a way out and that way out is by going on the run, once he is back in jail he will never get that chance again. I say he should instead own up to everything.

Chance of that now, no chance.
But in a certain situation, that of being locked up for good, he's going to become very accusative against Knox.
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I have to get back to bed went to bed 9.30 woke up at 1 but have to work today and need the sleep so will try again to get the other half of the sleep quota.


Thanks. If the conviction is upheld, he will no longer be able to cross borders. His only chance to do that, as far as I can see, is before the decision is made. If the conviction is overturned, he can return home. I suppose that means he's home for Christmas and then all things are possible.


Well, that's what I meant with have a route worked out, one that will allow him to get out.

I'm thinking he will not be there for the final ruling, as at that point I don't see him being allowed to leave the courtroom if it is a guilty V.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thinking of the Kerchers, who from this article will be in court January 10 to hear the verdict,.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thinking of the Kerchers, who from this article will be in court January 10 to hear the verdict,.http://t.notizie.it.msn.com/italia/deli ... romclassic
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
Crini: computer records and alibi point to Sollecito being not at home but at murder scene
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

@zorba, I adjusted the Time clock in the UCP and my times seem OK to me now. You?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Crini about Curatolo, describes P. Grimana; as an habitual presence of the piazza, proven reliable in other cases

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 3m
Process Meredith, for the PM Crini "[the fact that] the witness Curatolo saw that Amanda and Raffaele near the house of the crime is reliable"

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 37s
Crini: the H-Z court assessed Curatolo a priori based on him as a person, stemming from questions of the court itself
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
@zorba, I adjusted the Time clock in the UCP and my times seem OK to me now. You?




Hi Ergon,

But if you look at my post now, it will show a time that is later than what the time is here and in Italy, it says a time after 12, but it is now 11:47 in Florence, in my preferences I have it set to UTC + 1 hour, but it is not showing up correctly.

Tell me, what do you have your own computer preference set at, as regards Time Zone?

Same time as Calgary? And what time does your latest post say as current time, on your own computer?

I get to see your post as being posted an hour later than it is right now.
I see everyone's posts at an incorrect and future time.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Crini: many trials could not exist if drug addicted testimonies were dismissed
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Maresca and Crini at today's hearing:

Image


'My first thought is that they are standing in the urinal.
What am I missing?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione photo gallery:

Sollecito in court

MULTIMEDIA QUOTIDIANO
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Sollecito gave computer alibi days later, and words his statement in the singular form


Is Sollecito distancing himself from Knox?


Last edited by Jester on Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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