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XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Isn't that sweet?

Steve Moore apologises to one of the most offensive Knox supporters for accidentally blocking him.


Remember the screenshot from @GuilterWatchin above? He tried to bait forensic expert Dale Yeager to write articles about the case, but has since deleted his tweets and started attacking him.


These Amanda Knox supporters are truly embarrassing.


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Offline chami


Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:36 pm

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:

The registration was November 9 2007 so three days after Amanda Knox was arrested. I am not sure if I should be impressed that they thought to lock down the name or appalled that the first reaction of the family was to lock down the domain.


There is something very fishy with these dates.

On .org, Clander, Tech Admin, has joined the forum on 01-Nov-2007.

I was in Genoa on Nov 01, 2007. I was there for less than a week and then I returned back to Milano. If I remember correctly, there was no report on 02-Nov simply because it was discovered after middle of the day.

I am confused. Can someone please enlighten me?
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
McCall wrote:

The registration was November 9 2007 so three days after Amanda Knox was arrested. I am not sure if I should be impressed that they thought to lock down the name or appalled that the first reaction of the family was to lock down the domain.


There is something very fishy with these dates.

On .org, Clander, Tech Admin, has joined the forum on 01-Nov-2007.

I was in Genoa on Nov 01, 2007. I was there for less than a week and then I returned back to Milano. If I remember correctly, there was no report on 02-Nov simply because it was discovered after middle of the day.

I am confused. Can someone please enlighten me?


All I know is Clander showed up there relatively recently, a year or 2 ago I think, from Portugal, maybe they have different calendars down there, erhum.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
max wrote:
zorba wrote:
max wrote:

Max you have to issue a a clear warning with stuff like that: CNN's Fredricka Whitfield talks with Steve Moore about discrepancies he found in the Amanda Knox case.

Yah sorry, it is so embarrassing that it made me laugh, but they allow him to talk on CNN so good for him...I guess.


Steve Moore appeared nervous in this video. What's wrong with his mouth? The corners of his mouth go up and down all the time when he is not speaking. Looks like a nervous tick.

Regarding the suspect of the LAX airport shooting Steve Moore says "But at the same time you cannot just say, ok, he said it. Case closed. We are gone. What you have to do is verify everything he said ... I mean, it could take a year before trial ... to go through everything he said. You cannot just take a confession, those are too easy to get from innocent people." :shock:

I am also disappointed that he did not bring up the screenshot of the Twitter fake account.


Moore's claim that it's easy to get confessions from innocent people caught my attention as well. Patrick Lumumba held his ground and refused to accept responsibility for something he did not do. Why wasn't it easy to get a false confession from him? I think that Moore's statement is agenda driven rather than truthful.

I have to wonder what Moore's former colleagues think of his claim about easily obtaining false confessions, and how that reflects on any of the work that he did with the FBI. I suspect that every time Moore opens his mouth, they cringe and wonder where the fallout will be.
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Offline DoctorRadias


Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:38 pm

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
max wrote:
zorba wrote:
max wrote:

Max you have to issue a a clear warning with stuff like that: CNN's Fredricka Whitfield talks with Steve Moore about discrepancies he found in the Amanda Knox case.

Yah sorry, it is so embarrassing that it made me laugh, but they allow him to talk on CNN so good for him...I guess.


Steve Moore appeared nervous in this video. What's wrong with his mouth? The corners of his mouth go up and down all the time when he is not speaking. Looks like a nervous tick.

Regarding the suspect of the LAX airport shooting Steve Moore says "But at the same time you cannot just say, ok, he said it. Case closed. We are gone. What you have to do is verify everything he said ... I mean, it could take a year before trial ... to go through everything he said. You cannot just take a confession, those are too easy to get from innocent people." :shock:

I am also disappointed that he did not bring up the screenshot of the Twitter fake account.


Moore's claim that it's easy to get confessions from innocent people caught my attention as well. Patrick Lumumba held his ground and refused to accept responsibility for something he did not do. Why wasn't it easy to get a false confession from him? I think that Moore's statement is agenda driven rather than truthful.

I have to wonder what Moore's former colleagues think of his claim about easily obtaining false confessions, and how that reflects on any of the work that he did with the FBI. I suspect that every time Moore opens his mouth, they cringe and wonder where the fallout will be.


Maybe now would be a good time for anyone that ever signed a confession for the knuckle dragging moron to request an appeal. OhWait! Helicopter pilots\school caretakers don't get to take confessions.

He's no more than a barefaced lair. no where in the SQ report does it say testing sample 36-I is decisive!

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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Steve Moore is understandably nervous. How can he build a career testifying for people when they get convicted and springing cocaine dealers out of prison when an actor Sean Penn comes along and does it with a personal visit to the president of a country? All his CNN reports and 'congressional briefings' are revealed to be a sham.

But, regarding his FBI work, not only was he involved in entrapping so called White Supremacists, his 'work' in Pakistan was not, quite, what it was cracked up to be. The Pakistanis did all the work, he wrote a book about his er, role.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
McCall wrote:

The registration was November 9 2007 so three days after Amanda Knox was arrested. I am not sure if I should be impressed that they thought to lock down the name or appalled that the first reaction of the family was to lock down the domain.


There is something very fishy with these dates.

On .org, Clander, Tech Admin, has joined the forum on 01-Nov-2007.

I was in Genoa on Nov 01, 2007. I was there for less than a week and then I returned back to Milano. If I remember correctly, there was no report on 02-Nov simply because it was discovered after middle of the day.

I am confused. Can someone please enlighten me?


Clander is the tech admin so the date of his account creation is meaningless. He could have picked that date for symbolic reasons or because he needed a date that predated the first user account / post so figured that was a safe one.
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:04 pm   Post subject: MY FINAL WORD ON THE BLONDE HAIRS QUESTION   

I just confirmed, from a second, independent source, that there were two blonde hairs, not filaments, not 'wool fibers' that had been found in Meredith's vagina and hand and they were lost. Therefore, they never were entered in the evidentiary files. They never were tested. It really is a pity if we should be so afraid to acknowledge mistakes were made, so entrenched in our assumptions that we excuse it by thinking it would be harmful to the case. The body of evidence against is so strong, why worry?

Just thought you should all know that.
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Picture, once again: Image
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:28 pm   Post subject: Re: MY FINAL WORD ON THE BLONDE HAIRS QUESTION   

Ergon wrote:
I just confirmed, from a second, independent source, that there were two blonde hairs, not filaments, not 'wool fibers' that had been found in Meredith's vagina and hand and they were lost. Therefore, they never were entered in the evidentiary files. They never were tested. It really is a pity if we should be so afraid to acknowledge mistakes were made, so entrenched in our assumptions that we excuse it by thinking it would be harmful to the case. The body of evidence against is so strong, why worry?

Just thought you should all know that.


That is all well and good Ergon .. only it remains maybe, if you cannot be specific, because if you say second source then well, without anything specific it remains hearsay, if I say to a friend, yes well two hairs were found in Meredith's body.

Then, my friend says, oh, how do you know.

I must then say, oh, someone online said so.

Therefore, this way, it has no value.

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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'd ask your friend if he read an actual book on the case written by an actual reporter who attended the trial and spoke to the actual prosecutors and investigators, zorba. The book is Angel Face, by Barbie Nadeau, pages 47-49. Seeing as how I'm quoting from a book, and confirmed it by speaking to several sources, you'll just have to accept it, or not. I'm not here to convince
anyone but for the case itself.
Interesting though that some accept some peoples assertions and what seems to be the dogma that these were the wool fibers without asking them for the names and addresses of their sources. Not that they have any, they're presenting assumption as fact.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I know this is unimportant but here's the latest news and rumors on the Winterbottom movie: Cara Delevingne has reportedly been cast as Amanda Knox's sister Deanna in The Face of an Angel. nw)

Cara Delevingne to play Amanda Knox’s sister in Michael Winterbottom biopic?

METRO UK

Cara Delevingne To Play Amanda Knox’s Sister In Michael Winterbottom Movie?

ENTERTAINMENTWISE

Like Zorba, I'm concerned that this little slice of fame begins to get to their (Knox Entourage's) heads and makes them even more arrogant and unpleasant. When will the media learn the difference between fame and infamy and deny the killers and their families the notoriety they crave by turning them into anonymous footnotes instead of icons? Sigh.

Is anybody watching the King5 "Foxy Knoxy" Special tonight? It's on at 10 (PST), isn't it?
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
I'd ask your friend if he read an actual book on the case written by an actual reporter who attended the trial and spoke to the actual prosecutors and investigators, zorba. The book is Angel Face, by Barbie Nadeau, pages 47-49. Seeing as how I'm quoting from a book, and confirmed it by speaking to several sources, you'll just have to accept it, or not. I'm not here to convince
anyone but for the case itself.
Interesting though that some accept some peoples assertions and what seems to be the dogma that these were the wool fibers without asking them for the names and addresses of their sources. Not that they have any, they're presenting assumption as fact.




I know about the talk about the hairs, I know some said it was fibre, you say you have a second source who confirms it, you write it as though it is somehow offcial not saying who it is told you this, therefore it's ''you said so'' Ergon, that's why I will not have to accept it, '''someone said'' holds no legal value.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Did they mention the date of that letter? Since he mentions Alessi, it seems this is just an old letter. So much for an 'interview' :roll:


Hi max, the letter shown on Quarto Grado seems to have been written only recently; it's dated October 22, 2013. True, Rudy reveals nothing new or exciting, he even avoids mentioning Knox and Sollecito by name this time. The hype was way overdone and the letter's release - a disappointment, what some correctly called a 'non-event'.

Attachment:
Rudy Guede Letter to Quarto Grado, Oct 22, 2013.JPG


Jools has posted a proper translation of Rudy's letter HERE.

Attachment:
Rudy's letter to Quarto Grado, Oct 22, 2013.JPG


I'd also recommend reading Tiziano's translation of an article in Perugia Today if you haven't done so already :)

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=148080#p148080

Relevant excerpt:

With time off, benefits from the law and good conduct, the only person condemned for the murder of Mez will begin his second life in 2014: six years after the murder. [...]

And six years after this tragic event - both for the Kerchers and for the city of Perugia which has ended up with general loss of face - comes the official news that the only guilty person (the Perugia Ivorian) Rudy Guede will be able to go out of prison from May, having already served half of the sentence inflicted by the court - with time off for good behaviour, time on remand, and a year on parole, every bit already discounted.

The confirmation comes directly from lawyer Nicodemo Gentile during the programme Quarto Grado on Mediaset: "I confirm - he explained - that in May our client will make a formal request to take advantage of the benefits of the law: that is to say, the first permits to leave the Viterbo prison. [...] But Gentile himself admits that all this will not be automatic: "The law provides for this, but the application for parole does not produce an automatic authorisation."


PERUGIA TODAY

That's why the other day I said that, if Knox is re-convicted, she'll probably serve only half of her sentence before becoming eligible to apply for work permit. What do you say to that, Z? 21-25 years are only in theory; the reality is quite different. Too bad, that's just too bad...


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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
max wrote:
Did they mention the date of that letter? Since he mentions Alessi, it seems this is just an old letter. So much for an 'interview' :roll:


Hi max, the letter shown on Quarto Grado seems to have been written only recently; it's dated October 22, 2013. True, Rudy reveals nothing new or exciting, he even avoids mentioning Knox and Sollecito by name this time. The hype was way overdone and the letter's release - a disappointment, what some correctly called a 'non-event'.

Attachment:
Rudy Guede Letter to Quarto Grado, Oct 22, 2013.JPG


Jools has posted a proper translation of Rudy's letter HERE.

Attachment:
Rudy's letter to Quarto Grado, Oct 22, 2013.JPG


I'd also recommend reading Tiziano's translation of an article in Perugia Today if you haven't done so already :)

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=148080#p148080

Relevant excerpt:

With time off, benefits from the law and good conduct, the only person condemned for the murder of Mez will begin his second life in 2014: six years after the murder. [...]

And six years after this tragic event - both for the Kerchers and for the city of Perugia which has ended up with general loss of face - comes the official news that the only guilty person (the Perugia Ivorian) Rudy Guede will be able to go out of prison from May, having already served half of the sentence inflicted by the court - with time off for good behaviour, time on remand, and a year on parole, every bit already discounted.

The confirmation comes directly from lawyer Nicodemo Gentile during the programme Quarto Grado on Mediaset: "I confirm - he explained - that in May our client will make a formal request to take advantage of the benefits of the law: that is to say, the first permits to leave the Viterbo prison. [...] But Gentile himself admits that all this will not be automatic: "The law provides for this, but the application for parole does not produce an automatic authorisation."


PERUGIA TODAY

That's why the other day I said that, if Knox is re-convicted, she'll probably serve only half of her sentence before becoming eligible to apply for work permit. What do yo say to that, Z? 21-25 years are only in theory; the reality is quite different. Too bad, that's just too bad...


Jools also mentions that he has read part of this letter somewhere else; this means that someone else wrote the letter as a draft, then showed it off to a restricted list, then asked RG to write with a fresh date.

We need to take all the claims with a big spoon of salt...
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Offline chami


Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:36 pm

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
chami wrote:
McCall wrote:

The registration was November 9 2007 so three days after Amanda Knox was arrested. I am not sure if I should be impressed that they thought to lock down the name or appalled that the first reaction of the family was to lock down the domain.


There is something very fishy with these dates.

On .org, Clander, Tech Admin, has joined the forum on 01-Nov-2007.

I was in Genoa on Nov 01, 2007. I was there for less than a week and then I returned back to Milano. If I remember correctly, there was no report on 02-Nov simply because it was discovered after middle of the day.

I am confused. Can someone please enlighten me?


Clander is the tech admin so the date of his account creation is meaningless. He could have picked that date for symbolic reasons or because he needed a date that predated the first user account / post so figured that was a safe one.


With power comes responsibility. Do you think that Clander abused his power when he entered a fake date? Why don't you look more critically (the same way you have looked into amandaknox.com) simply because we want to believe and find the truth.

This is an alternate version of "America is powerful and is above the rule of law".
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Offline jaybee51


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:19 pm

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

How easy is it to identify the owner of a hair? Do you need a root to get Dna?
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
I'd ask your friend if he read an actual book on the case written by an actual reporter who attended the trial and spoke to the actual prosecutors and investigators, zorba. The book is Angel Face, by Barbie Nadeau, pages 47-49. Seeing as how I'm quoting from a book, and confirmed it by speaking to several sources, you'll just have to accept it, or not. I'm not here to convince
anyone but for the case itself.
Interesting though that some accept some peoples assertions and what seems to be the dogma that these were the wool fibers without asking them for the names and addresses of their sources. Not that they have any, they're presenting assumption as fact.



I know about the talk about the hairs, I know some said it was fibre, you say you have a second source who confirms it, you write it as though it is somehow offcial not saying who it is told you this, therefore it's ''you said so'' Ergon, that's why I will not have to accept it, '''someone said'' holds no legal value.


The hairs definitely don't have any legal value as they were misplaced and not entered in the body of evidence.

No matter who said what, there is a crime scene photo that shows a hair in Meredith's hand. Colourwise it could be Sollecito's or Knox's, but Sollecito had fairly short hair back in 2007. That leaves Amanda Knox.

My opinion only.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
How easy is it to identify the owner of a hair? Do you need a root to get Dna?


Hi Jaybee,

I found this article that explains why it is difficult and not always successful to extract DNA from hair.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
chami wrote:
McCall wrote:

The registration was November 9 2007 so three days after Amanda Knox was arrested. I am not sure if I should be impressed that they thought to lock down the name or appalled that the first reaction of the family was to lock down the domain.


There is something very fishy with these dates.

On .org, Clander, Tech Admin, has joined the forum on 01-Nov-2007.

I was in Genoa on Nov 01, 2007. I was there for less than a week and then I returned back to Milano. If I remember correctly, there was no report on 02-Nov simply because it was discovered after middle of the day.

I am confused. Can someone please enlighten me?


Clander is the tech admin so the date of his account creation is meaningless. He could have picked that date for symbolic reasons or because he needed a date that predated the first user account / post so figured that was a safe one.



That is correct. Clander's actual join date was March 26, 2010. He's just reset it, that's all.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
I'd ask your friend if he read an actual book on the case written by an actual reporter who attended the trial and spoke to the actual prosecutors and investigators, zorba. The book is Angel Face, by Barbie Nadeau, pages 47-49. Seeing as how I'm quoting from a book, and confirmed it by speaking to several sources, you'll just have to accept it, or not. I'm not here to convince
anyone but for the case itself.
Interesting though that some accept some peoples assertions and what seems to be the dogma that these were the wool fibers without asking them for the names and addresses of their sources. Not that they have any, they're presenting assumption as fact.



I know about the talk about the hairs, I know some said it was fibre, you say you have a second source who confirms it, you write it as though it is somehow offcial not saying who it is told you this, therefore it's ''you said so'' Ergon, that's why I will not have to accept it, '''someone said'' holds no legal value.


The hairs definitely don't have any legal value as they were misplaced and not entered in the body of evidence.

No matter who said what, there is a crime scene photo that shows a hair in Meredith's hand. Coloureise it could be Sollecito's or Knox's, but Sollecito had fairly short hair back in 2007. That leaves Amanda Knox.

My opinion only.


Yes but legally Nell, a photo with what looks like hair cannot be said to be hair, it is open to each person's assumption, to those following this case with reasoning ability it obviously IS hair, but still, it is only of value in trying to work out at the personal level what it means, the lay judges may get to see that as part of the wide range of date and decide for themselves if they can reasonable deduce that it was indeed hair. It isn't part of the evidence though. Still, lay judges are bound to get to see those images, and will be able to reason out for themselves, like heh, what in the world could that be if it were fibre, like, where from, and I think they'd think, there's pretty much only one thing that, within reason, it could be, and that's hair.

All of the bits taken together are going to influence their thinking, all of the bits they get to see, already saw as a citizen, will weigh up even if they are told to disregard certain things as jurors are, but again, I state, these people aren't jurors, they decide on the validity of law just like the judge does only the judges have the overriding power. They cannot overrule a judge if the judge does not agree.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
How easy is it to identify the owner of a hair? Do you need a root to get Dna?


Hi Jaybee,

I found this article that explains why it is difficult and not always successful to extract DNA from hair.



Traditionally, the root of the hair has been required to extract DNA. That makes only pulled hairs viable, as they have the root where the DNA resides. Shed hairs are no good, as the root has died off and the hair broken away from it. However, recent technologies have been developed whereby the keratin of the hair is able to be broken down and the DNA on the inside extracted and amplified. This technology was developed in paleontology in order to be able to extract DNA from the hair of mammoth remains preserved in Siberian permafrost. The DNA within hairs is mitochondrial DNA only, a specific form of DNA that is passed down the female line and represents only a very small fraction of the human genome. This technology was developed in only the last couple of years and to my knowledge, has not yet been adopted by criminal forensic departments.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
McCall wrote:
chami wrote:
McCall wrote:

The registration was November 9 2007 so three days after Amanda Knox was arrested. I am not sure if I should be impressed that they thought to lock down the name or appalled that the first reaction of the family was to lock down the domain.


There is something very fishy with these dates.

On .org, Clander, Tech Admin, has joined the forum on 01-Nov-2007.

I was in Genoa on Nov 01, 2007. I was there for less than a week and then I returned back to Milano. If I remember correctly, there was no report on 02-Nov simply because it was discovered after middle of the day.

I am confused. Can someone please enlighten me?


Clander is the tech admin so the date of his account creation is meaningless. He could have picked that date for symbolic reasons or because he needed a date that predated the first user account / post so figured that was a safe one.


With power comes responsibility. Do you think that Clander abused his power when he entered a fake date? Why don't you look more critically (the same way you have looked into amandaknox.com) simply because we want to believe and find the truth.

This is an alternate version of "America is powerful and is above the rule of law".



The answer could be yes or no. It all depends on his reasons for doing it. In a way, it is certainly misleading, as it gives the impression that PMF is far older then it is. PMF didn't exist in November 2007 and wasn't created (by me) until January 2008. Even then, it sat fallow for many months and didn't begin the process of being populated with members and becoming our home until late September/early October 2008. Until that time, our community was living on the comments section of Steve Huff's True Crime blog and then The True Crime Weblog Message Board respectively.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
I'd ask your friend if he read an actual book on the case written by an actual reporter who attended the trial and spoke to the actual prosecutors and investigators, zorba. The book is Angel Face, by Barbie Nadeau, pages 47-49. Seeing as how I'm quoting from a book, and confirmed it by speaking to several sources, you'll just have to accept it, or not. I'm not here to convince
anyone but for the case itself.
Interesting though that some accept some peoples assertions and what seems to be the dogma that these were the wool fibers without asking them for the names and addresses of their sources. Not that they have any, they're presenting assumption as fact.




I know about the talk about the hairs, I know some said it was fibre, you say you have a second source who confirms it, you write it as though it is somehow offcial not saying who it is told you this, therefore it's ''you said so'' Ergon, that's why I will not have to accept it, '''someone said'' holds no legal value.


We actually have multiple reliable sources who have confirmed this for us and it is not Ergon alone who has seen the information from these sources, but also Nell and I.

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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So, even if the hairs had not been lost, it would have been unlikely that they could have been definitely tied to Amanda.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Well, an examination of them under a microscope would have revealed whether they were compatible with each other or not. That would not have been enough to say they were definitively hers, only that they were so similar they couldn't be excluded from being hers. What would have added to their strength, is that they could potentially, also have been definitively excluded from being a match with Meredith's boyfriend's, Filomena's, Laura's or Rudy's hair.

Moreover, if the hairs were pulled from the head of one of the assailants, then they would still have had the roots attached and those contain DNA that could have provided an absolute profile match. If they were shed hairs, then not.

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
I'd ask your friend if he read an actual book on the case written by an actual reporter who attended the trial and spoke to the actual prosecutors and investigators, zorba. The book is Angel Face, by Barbie Nadeau, pages 47-49. Seeing as how I'm quoting from a book, and confirmed it by speaking to several sources, you'll just have to accept it, or not. I'm not here to convince
anyone but for the case itself.
Interesting though that some accept some peoples assertions and what seems to be the dogma that these were the wool fibers without asking them for the names and addresses of their sources. Not that they have any, they're presenting assumption as fact.




I know about the talk about the hairs, I know some said it was fibre, you say you have a second source who confirms it, you write it as though it is somehow offcial not saying who it is told you this, therefore it's ''you said so'' Ergon, that's why I will not have to accept it, '''someone said'' holds no legal value.


We actually have multiple reliable sources who have confirmed this for us and it is not Ergon alone who has seen the information from these sources, but also Nell and I.


In both layman and scientific terms, hairs are natural fibers. Natural wool is also commonly referred as fiber. Synthetic fibers, often called man-made fibers are non-proteins but often gives biochemical reactions. But fibers in mathematics are a completely different beast altogether.

What I am saying is that describing it as a fiber does not eliminate it from being a hair sample. Major component of the hair is keratin, a fibrous protein. You cannot describe hair without using "fiber".

Also, photographs and their contents are evidences. All photographs taken during the official investigation are part of the file and are considered bonafide evidences. Excuse me, I am not a lawyer, though.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Not to harp on the hairs question, which in the end is a matter of "if only". If only the bra clasp had been collected promptly, if Curatolo and Quintavalle had been interviewed earlier, if the hairs had been located, it would have been a much stronger case, which the likes of Hellman would not have been able to reject. But the fact remains, that Knox is now in the US, and it will be an extradition battle, the outcome of which is uncertain. There are ten steps to carrying out a request for extradition, and you can bet the Knox forces are prepared to contest that every step (Ironic, that the best outcome for her rest of her life would be for her to be removed from that toxic crew)

But it is this that keeps us engaged: the battle for public opinion. Right now her support in the US is a mile wide (blanket coverage in the media) and an inch thick (most people couldn't give a damn) but it might still become a public relations nightmare when she sends out a call for white knights every where to rescue an American damsel in distress.

That is why the upcoming Angel Face movie is so important. This is why we need to get US media to look at the evidence fairly. That is why the wiki is important, that many journalists and news desks have started to look at the transcripts and trial documents there, who might never come here otherwise. But above all, it is we, who have put so much into this, that must keep Meredith Kercher's cause alive.
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Not to harp on the hairs question, which in the end is a matter of "if only". If only the bra clasp had been collected promptly, if Curatolo and Quintavalle had been interviewed earlier, if the hairs had been located, it would have been a much stronger case, which the likes of Hellman would not have been able to reject. But the fact remains, that Knox is now in the US, and it will be an extradition battle, the outcome of which is uncertain. There are ten steps to carrying out a request for extradition, and you can bet the Knox forces are prepared to contest that every step (Ironic, that the best outcome for her rest of her life would be for her to be removed from that toxic crew)

But it is this that keeps us engaged: the battle for public opinion. Right now her support in the US is a mile wide (blanket coverage in the media) and an inch thick (most people couldn't give a damn) but it might still become a public relations nightmare when she sends out a call for white knights every where to rescue an American damsel in distress.

That is why the upcoming Angel Face movie is so important. This is why we need to get US media to look at the evidence fairly. That is why the wiki is important, that many journalists and news desks have started to look at the transcripts and trial documents there, who might never come here otherwise. But above all, it is we, who have put so much into this, that must keep Meredith Kercher's cause alive.


That has been the main objective of the PR drive and this was realized very early in the case. Buying support within Italy was only an incidental bonus. It was quite clear even in the early days...
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Regarding the analysis of hair, my layperson's understanding is that hair can be identified using two methods. If there is a root, it can be identified on the basis of nuclear DNA. If it does not have a root, it can be identified using mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondrial DNA can be found in hair, bones and teeth. Mitochondrial DNA is low quality DNA and can only be compared to the mother, or relatives on the maternal side of the family.

If the hair in Meredith's hand did not have a root, it could still have been compared to Knox. Although not a perfect science, mitochondrial DNA has been accepted in court. For example, Laci Peterson was murdered by her husband. A single hair was found in his boat. There was no root, but the mitochondrial DNA was consistent with that of her mother. That evidence was used to convict her husband for the 2002 murder.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
I think Knox kept the knife because she likes trophys. Just look at her collection of Meredith on her site.


The knife was part of the apartment inventory so if missing it would be noticed. Raffaele was supposed to move out Oct 30th but had extended his stay till November 14th.



It was a pretty generic cheap knife, easily enough replaced with another that looked very similar. Sollecito had lived there for about two years, a long time since landlord would have last had a look at the knife and one can be sure the inventory would not have had a detailed description of it. Would the landlord have noticed the difference? I really don't think so.


A picture of him at the kitchen knife shop would have been handy after the murder.
Plus IIRC from the list there were only a couple of knives. I believe they thought they were outsmarting everybody... including their parents.
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Offline LUFC1972


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Radaronline have published jailhouse letter from AK to RS. Don't think it's been in the public domain before:

http://amradaronline.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/amanda-knox-letter.pdf

My mistake. It's old. I particularly like the "THEY HAVE NOTHING".


Last edited by LUFC1972 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Regarding the analysis of hair, my layperson's understanding is that hair can be identified using two methods. If there is a root, it can be identified on the basis of nuclear DNA. If it does not have a root, it can be identified using mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondrial DNA can be found in hair, bones and teeth. Mitochondrial DNA is low quality DNA and can only be compared to the mother, or relatives on the maternal side of the family.

If the hair in Meredith's hand did not have a root, it could still have been compared to Knox. Although not a perfect science, mitochondrial DNA has been accepted in court. For example, Laci Peterson was murdered by her husband. A single hair was found in his boat. There was no root, but the mitochondrial DNA was consistent with that of her mother. That evidence was used to convict her husband for the 2002 murder.


Testing or not... a longish blondish hair in the murder victims hand is very compelling. Nobody else had that hair type at the time. I know AK lived there... but it still is a big one. Same crap would have been said by the groupies however. Contamination, mishandling, framed, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith Kercher Murder Accused Visits Grave
Raffaele Sollecito was taken to Meredith's grave in Surrey by an English friend while visiting London in March, a report says.


By Nick Pisa, Sky News Reporter


SKY MEWS

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
I'd ask your friend if he read an actual book on the case written by an actual reporter who attended the trial and spoke to the actual prosecutors and investigators, zorba. The book is Angel Face, by Barbie Nadeau, pages 47-49. Seeing as how I'm quoting from a book, and confirmed it by speaking to several sources, you'll just have to accept it, or not. I'm not here to convince
anyone but for the case itself.
Interesting though that some accept some peoples assertions and what seems to be the dogma that these were the wool fibers without asking them for the names and addresses of their sources. Not that they have any, they're presenting assumption as fact.




I know about the talk about the hairs, I know some said it was fibre, you say you have a second source who confirms it, you write it as though it is somehow offcial not saying who it is told you this, therefore it's ''you said so'' Ergon, that's why I will not have to accept it, '''someone said'' holds no legal value.


We actually have multiple reliable sources who have confirmed this for us and it is not Ergon alone who has seen the information from these sources, but also Nell and I.



I don't doubt it but why not say who these sources are, or to me it sounds like the Daily Mail, that's all I'm saying, our sources said....

If everyone says our sources say, I'm not sure what value that has.

So then Knox's lot, say, our sources said... bla bla bla. What's the difference?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Because the sources don't want to be named, Zorba.

If we tell you there is a source for something and then don't name it, that should be a clear signal that it was given to us in confidence.

And we are not "everyone". Our track record on whether we can be trusted speaks for itself. If you still don't trust us, that's up to you.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

If anyone is still interested, the King5 Special "Amanda Knox - Her Life Now" that aired last night is available to watch on their website. I sincerely hope we've heard/seen the last of her before the second appeal trial verdict.

KING 5 Special: Amanda Knox - Her Life Now

KING5 VIDEO
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I have been having the most interesting exchange with someone on Twitter who claims to be Melanie Moon, a co-anchor of the Fox TV news desk in St. Louis, Missouri. She calls anyone that disagrees with her take on Knox's innocence 'haters', LOL, and references Injustice In Perugia to bolster her views. Check out her twitter account, and here's my e-mail to her employer at http://fox2now.com/

Quote:
Name: Naseer Ahmad
Email: *****
Comment: I am writing to enquire if this person "Melanie Moon" commenting on the Amanda Knox appeal in Italy is in fact the same Melanie Moon who is the co anchor of your news show. It might well be an impersonator, this one calls every one who disagrees with her, "haters". https://twitter.com/Moon_Melanie/status ... 0179378176 I am an editor at the investigative news site, http://www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com Looking forward to your reply,
Signed
Naseer Ahmad
Toronto Canada
Phone: *****
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

For a news co-anchor, she seems quite unhinged on the subject: https://twitter.com/Moon_Melanie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
I have been having the most interesting exchange with someone on Twitter who claims to be Melanie Moon, a co-anchor of the Fox TV news desk in St. Louis, Missouri. She calls anyone that disagrees with her take on Knox's innocence 'haters', LOL, and references Injustice In Perugia to bolster her views. Check out her twitter account, and here's my e-mail to her employer at http://fox2now.com/

Quote:
Name: Naseer Ahmad
Email: *****
Comment: I am writing to enquire if this person "Melanie Moon" commenting on the Amanda Knox appeal in Italy is in fact the same Melanie Moon who is the co anchor of your news show. It might well be an impersonator, this one calls every one who disagrees with her, "haters". https://twitter.com/Moon_Melanie/status ... 0179378176 I am an editor at the investigative news site, http://www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com Looking forward to your reply,
Signed
Naseer Ahmad
Toronto Canada
Phone: *****



Since when did TMOMK.com become an "investigative news site"? I thought it was a repository for case records, documents and summaries.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

My mistake, and not intentional. Wearing too many hats it seems, and it is PMF that I consider the investigative news site.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Meredith Kercher Murder Accused Visits Grave
Raffaele Sollecito was taken to Meredith's grave in Surrey by an English friend while visiting London in March, a report says.


By Nick Pisa, Sky News Reporter


SKY MEWS


I am very interested in knowing the 'English friend' who accompanied him to Meredith's grave. It appears to be one of his followers who writes under the name 'Croydon Guardian' to various sites, and has made several nasty comments about Arline Kercher, and how Meredith's Leeds University wasn't 'top rank' and about the Kerchers being 'middle class'. He also seems to be a member of the EDF.

Like attracts like, I guess.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
Jester wrote:
Regarding the analysis of hair, my layperson's understanding is that hair can be identified using two methods. If there is a root, it can be identified on the basis of nuclear DNA. If it does not have a root, it can be identified using mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondrial DNA can be found in hair, bones and teeth. Mitochondrial DNA is low quality DNA and can only be compared to the mother, or relatives on the maternal side of the family.

If the hair in Meredith's hand did not have a root, it could still have been compared to Knox. Although not a perfect science, mitochondrial DNA has been accepted in court. For example, Laci Peterson was murdered by her husband. A single hair was found in his boat. There was no root, but the mitochondrial DNA was consistent with that of her mother. That evidence was used to convict her husband for the 2002 murder.


Testing or not... a longish blondish hair in the murder victims hand is very compelling. Nobody else had that hair type at the time. I know AK lived there... but it still is a big one. Same crap would have been said by the groupies however. Contamination, mishandling, framed, etc.


There is no reasonable explanation for a hair, similar in appearance to that of Knox, to be in Meredith's hand. Meredith obviously did not have the hair in her hand prior to the attack.
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Unless I missed it, didn't notice anyone here had submitted the url for BondBabe007's most recent article on Meredith's case on the 'All Things Crime' blog. This latest article is entitled: 'Rudy Guede: Lone Wolf Assailant or AK & RS Accomplice?' There is some early background info on RG I hadn't read before. Article is well done, as usual, with lots of comments, some from our friends here at PMF.net. Yay-)

http://allthingscrimeblog.com/2013/11/01/rudy-guede-lone-wolf-assailant-or-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-accomplice/
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
dgfred wrote:
Jester wrote:
Regarding the analysis of hair, my layperson's understanding is that hair can be identified using two methods. If there is a root, it can be identified on the basis of nuclear DNA. If it does not have a root, it can be identified using mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondrial DNA can be found in hair, bones and teeth. Mitochondrial DNA is low quality DNA and can only be compared to the mother, or relatives on the maternal side of the family.

If the hair in Meredith's hand did not have a root, it could still have been compared to Knox. Although not a perfect science, mitochondrial DNA has been accepted in court. For example, Laci Peterson was murdered by her husband. A single hair was found in his boat. There was no root, but the mitochondrial DNA was consistent with that of her mother. That evidence was used to convict her husband for the 2002 murder.

Testing or not... a longish blondish hair in the murder victims hand is very compelling. Nobody else had that hair type at the time. I know AK lived there... but it still is a big one. Same crap would have been said by the groupies however. Contamination, mishandling, framed, etc.


There is no reasonable explanation for a hair, similar in appearance to that of Knox, to be in Meredith's hand. Meredith obviously did not have the hair in her hand prior to the attack.

It seems like, but yet I don't recall this even being discussed during any trial. After all they could have used the images as evidence. So I wonder why the images of this hair were not discussed more in court.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

LUFC1972 wrote:
Radaronline have published jailhouse letter from AK to RS. Don't think it's been in the public domain before:

http://amradaronline.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/amanda-knox-letter.pdf

My mistake. It's old. I particularly like the "THEY HAVE NOTHING".

Thanks. Here is some more on that. The theme seems to be 'we are in this together'. In other words, don't tell on me and I won't tell on you.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... etter.html
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
The hairs definitely don't have any legal value as they were misplaced and not entered in the body of evidence.

No matter who said what, there is a crime scene photo that shows a hair in Meredith's hand. Colourwise it could be Sollecito's or Knox's, but Sollecito had fairly short hair back in 2007. That leaves Amanda Knox.

My opinion only.


Yes but legally Nell, a photo with what looks like hair cannot be said to be hair, it is open to each person's assumption, to those following this case with reasoning ability it obviously IS hair, but still, it is only of value in trying to work out at the personal level what it means, the lay judges may get to see that as part of the wide range of date and decide for themselves if they can reasonable deduce that it was indeed hair. It isn't part of the evidence though. Still, lay judges are bound to get to see those images, and will be able to reason out for themselves, like heh, what in the world could that be if it were fibre, like, where from, and I think they'd think, there's pretty much only one thing that, within reason, it could be, and that's hair.

All of the bits taken together are going to influence their thinking, all of the bits they get to see, already saw as a citizen, will weigh up even if they are told to disregard certain things as jurors are, but again, I state, these people aren't jurors, they decide on the validity of law just like the judge does only the judges have the overriding power. They cannot overrule a judge if the judge does not agree.


I am not in disagreement with you over this matter. That's why I wrote that the assumption expressed in my former comment was my opinion only.

What can be said is that there were two hairs (by the looks of it everyone assumed them to be hairs), but they weren't properly analysed because they were lost or misplaced. Shame on the police. True, as they have not been analysed, it could have been any kind of fibre, not necessarily human hair.

Despite everything, we have Knox supporters who tweet and post online that "negroid hair" was found in Meredith's hand. That's a lie and that is the reason this topic came up again. The photos show clearly that whatever it was, it wasn't Guede's hair as suggested.

So because of the misinformation spread by Knox supporters, this topic will come up occasionally, unless you want let the lies stand.


I am also in sympathetic to you in regards to the anonymous sources, but our aim is to inform and this is information we have and we passed it on to our readers. I do understand that for some it won't carry weight, but everyone is free to decide for themselves what to make of it. I don't think it is important as the hairs never made it into the body of evidence and the crime scene photo is only useful to debunk the myth it was "a black man's hair" in Meredith's hand.


Barbie Latza Nadeau writes in her book about these two hairs, so does John Follain.

Quote:
Death in Perugia by John Follain

From Meredith’s bedroom, Stefanoni would later take thirty objects and biological samples including the bra, the jeans, the quilt, three blood-soaked towels, samples from the blood on the floor, on the walls and on the door handle, bloodstained fragments she cut from the undersheet, and two blonde hairs – not Meredith’s – from her left hand and from her vagina.



Quote:
Angel Face by Barbie Latza Nadeau

An examination of her vagina revealed a hair that the police removed and put into a plastic bag. “It's blonde,” Stefanoni said, directing the collection officer to note that the hair was not Meredith’s.



Just for your information, the response from the Knox supporter in question (@Noel_0409) when confronted with the crime scene photo was that there was no official source confirming blonde hair was found and therefore she would keep tweeting it was "negroid hair". Her "official source" must be Edda Mellas.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Slade wrote:
Unless I missed it, didn't notice anyone here had submitted the url for BondBabe007's most recent article on Meredith's case on the 'All Things Crime' blog. This latest article is entitled: 'Rudy Guede: Lone Wolf Assailant or AK & RS Accomplice?' There is some early background info on RG I hadn't read before. Article is well done, as usual, with lots of comments, some from our friends here at PMF.net. Yay-)

http://allthingscrimeblog.com/2013/11/01/rudy-guede-lone-wolf-assailant-or-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-accomplice/


Thank you for linking to her article.

I can highly recommend her articles. They are always well balanced and accurate. She never forgets who the real victim was.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Meredith Kercher Murder Accused Visits Grave
Raffaele Sollecito was taken to Meredith's grave in Surrey by an English friend while visiting London in March, a report says.


By Nick Pisa, Sky News Reporter


SKY MEWS


I am very interested in knowing the 'English friend' who accompanied him to Meredith's grave. It appears to be one of his followers who writes under the name 'Croydon Guardian' to various sites, and has made several nasty comments about Arline Kercher, and how Meredith's Leeds University wasn't 'top rank' and about the Kerchers being 'middle class'. He also seems to be a member of the EDF.

Like attracts like, I guess.


The friend was Nigel Scott.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
I have been having the most interesting exchange with someone on Twitter who claims to be Melanie Moon, a co-anchor of the Fox TV news desk in St. Louis, Missouri. She calls anyone that disagrees with her take on Knox's innocence 'haters', LOL, and references Injustice In Perugia to bolster her views. Check out her twitter account, and here's my e-mail to her employer at http://fox2now.com/

Quote:
Name: Naseer Ahmad
Email: *****
Comment: I am writing to enquire if this person "Melanie Moon" commenting on the Amanda Knox appeal in Italy is in fact the same Melanie Moon who is the co anchor of your news show. It might well be an impersonator, this one calls every one who disagrees with her, "haters". https://twitter.com/Moon_Melanie/status ... 0179378176 I am an editor at the investigative news site, http://www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com Looking forward to your reply,
Signed
Naseer Ahmad
Toronto Canada
Phone: *****



Do not bother with her. She is the anchor for a local TV station that nobody watches. It constantly came last in ratings, which is why they switched to a youth based angle of having young but inexperienced anchors. By having the meltdown she had today, it is clear Melanie Moon is not qualified. In an industry like this for someone like her to behave, the way she does (both related to Knox and some of her other tweets) means she is never getting out of minor local news. She will be unemployed in a few years when a younger and hopefully more intelligent version of her appears.
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Offline DoctorRadias


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Ergon wrote:
I have been having the most interesting exchange with someone on Twitter who claims to be Melanie Moon, a co-anchor of the Fox TV news desk in St. Louis, Missouri. She calls anyone that disagrees with her take on Knox's innocence 'haters', LOL, and references Injustice In Perugia to bolster her views. Check out her twitter account, and here's my e-mail to her employer at http://fox2now.com/

Quote:
Name: Naseer Ahmad
Email: *****
Comment: I am writing to enquire if this person "Melanie Moon" commenting on the Amanda Knox appeal in Italy is in fact the same Melanie Moon who is the co anchor of your news show. It might well be an impersonator, this one calls every one who disagrees with her, "haters". https://twitter.com/Moon_Melanie/status ... 0179378176 I am an editor at the investigative news site, http://www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com Looking forward to your reply,
Signed
Naseer Ahmad
Toronto Canada
Phone: *****



Do not bother with her. She is the anchor for a local TV station that nobody watches. It constantly came last in ratings, which is why they switched to a youth based angle of having young but inexperienced anchors. By having the meltdown she had today, it is clear Melanie Moon is not qualified. In an industry like this for someone like her to behave, the way she does (both related to Knox and some of her other tweets) means she is never getting out of minor local news. She will be unemployed in a few years when a younger and hopefully more intelligent version of her appears.



I almost feel sorry for giving her such a hard time tonight.

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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Meredith Kercher Murder Accused Visits Grave
Raffaele Sollecito was taken to Meredith's grave in Surrey by an English friend while visiting London in March, a report says.


By Nick Pisa, Sky News Reporter


SKY MEWS


I am very interested in knowing the 'English friend' who accompanied him to Meredith's grave. It appears to be one of his followers who writes under the name 'Croydon Guardian' to various sites, and has made several nasty comments about Arline Kercher, and how Meredith's Leeds University wasn't 'top rank' and about the Kerchers being 'middle class'. He also seems to be a member of the EDF.

Like attracts like, I guess.


The friend was Nigel Scott.


Not surprised. Does he have an account where he posted this?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Jester wrote:

There is no reasonable explanation for a hair, similar in appearance to that of Knox, to be in Meredith's hand. Meredith obviously did not have the hair in her hand prior to the attack.


It seems like, but yet I don't recall this even being discussed during any trial. After all they could have used the images as evidence. So I wonder why the images of this hair were not discussed more in court.


I think the problem might be with a possible counter argument. That is, because Meredith was found with a duvet covering most of her body, it could be argued that a hair on the duvet coincidentally landed on her hand. If she had not been covered with a duvet, then I think the hair in the hand could be directly linked to the murder.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
McCall wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Meredith Kercher Murder Accused Visits Grave
Raffaele Sollecito was taken to Meredith's grave in Surrey by an English friend while visiting London in March, a report says.


By Nick Pisa, Sky News Reporter


SKY MEWS


I am very interested in knowing the 'English friend' who accompanied him to Meredith's grave. It appears to be one of his followers who writes under the name 'Croydon Guardian' to various sites, and has made several nasty comments about Arline Kercher, and how Meredith's Leeds University wasn't 'top rank' and about the Kerchers being 'middle class'. He also seems to be a member of the EDF.

Like attracts like, I guess.


The friend was Nigel Scott.


Not surprised. Does he have an account where he posted this?


.org discussed it. He has a picture of them there either on his Facebook or Twitter. If you look on .org and go back a couple of days you'll see them discussing it and the link to where the picture is.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here is the link to the photo Nigel Scott tweeted that was discussed on .org.

There is no way in telling if this photo was taken when Sollecito visited Meredith's grave.

Image

IIRC someone on .org said Meredith's grave has a marbled gravestone now.


It goes without saying that I would not have visited Meredith's grave had I been in Sollecito's position. What is even worse to me is that he cannot keep it to himself. From now on, every time Meredith's loved ones go to her graveside to remember her, they will now know that her killer has been standing at the exact same spot.

I find this very hurtful. Bad enough that he could not respect the Kerchers wishes, on top of it he had to brag about it. He wants to let them know he was there.


My opinion only: To me it is clear that Amanda Knox felt rejected by Meredith and Knox didn't take it very well. The attack was about humiliation mostly. I have come to the conclusion that Amanda Knox felt at one point humiliated and wanted payback. She is still hurting that she did not emerge as the clear heroine from this court drama, Meredith still steals her the show. Knox's anger and contempt have come to light in her various interviews and imo she is too unintelligent and unfeeling to understand that the Kerchers will never receive her with open arms. They want to be left alone. Knox's approach suggesting they should acknowledge each others pain, grieve and visit Meredith's grave together is a foolproof method to be rejected again, not to talk about the backlash for her public image. Stupid is as stupid does. In my opinion Knox seeks recognition and acceptance.

For Sollecito I think it's more a trophy thing to visit Meredith's grave.

They are both deeply disturbed individuals.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The latest from Steve Moore.

Steve Moore cannot recommend studying in Italy, especially Florence and Perugia are not safe anymore for American students.

According to him, there is a lot of Anti-American sentiment in Italy.

If you read his article, you will find there is no official study, no public data, statistics or otherwise. It's just Moore's gut feeling what he has observed from afar.

His article lacks any insight, background information and data that would have allowed him to come to that conclusion.

Quote:
Some of the most difficult parts of my time at the university were those few times when, because of security and/or safety concerns, we had to tell a student or group of students “no.” Canceling someone’s long anticipated overseas study trip because of safety concerns is heartbreaking. While the reasons were occasionally obvious to them, (for instance, business studies in Teheran, or social studies in the Occupied Territories), many did not instinctively or clearly grasp security concerns. They could not understand why a humanitarian trip to northern Mexico was problematic—at a time when Tijuana was engulfed in a drug war and had a higher daily death rate than Baghdad.

My job was to monitor political situations, terrorist activity and regional stability and make daily recommendations as necessary, as well as being prepared if and when a situation occurred in a country in which we already had students and/or faculty. When determining whether a country is “safe,” one has to consider all aspects; from street crime to terrorism, political stability to the availability of quality health care in the case of student injury or illness.


He goes on:

Quote:
Think Rome, not Perugia or Florence.

[...] Now, however, the situation in a place which I once considered among those “gold-standard” countries has changed drastically over the course of a few years, and after wrestling with the facts and my conscience, I have come to the conclusion that I can no longer recommend as safe for U.S. students, travel to certain parts of Italy.

I believe Rome remains a safe and relatively low-risk venue in which to study, and I continue to recommend and support it. But the reasons below, I cannot recommend, and would actively discourage any (residential) foreign study in the Umbria province of Italy. Nor can I recommend the adjoining provinces of Toscano or Marche. These regions have become cauldrons of anti-American prejudice with something I have never before seen, a pervasive vindictiveness toward American college students. I do not take this decision lightly, as the area includes Firenze (Florence) and Assisi, among others. But I cannot trade historical significance for subjecting students to undue risk.


From what I understand, he says the American exchange students are part of the problem:

Quote:
In Perugia, in particular, foreign students might outnumber the citizens in the town. Not surprisingly, in Florence and Perugia, a robust bar and drug scene flourishes, and public drunkenness, petty crime, graffiti and social disruption is common. So, like loud neighbors, the student population of Europeans, Brits and Americans long ago alienated much of the resident Italian population.


Amanda Knox and Anti-American sentiment are given as the reason why Perugia is not "safe" anymore.

Quote:
But in 2007, that all changed. [...] Public sentiment turned wildly against the American after tabloids fueled the fire. She was labeled a “witch,” a “drug-addled whore” and worse.

[...]

Send your daughter to Italy for a semester and she comes home from prison four years later, after the rest of her classmates have graduated and you have mortgaged your home to pay for her defense. How’s that for an education? But the acquittal on appeal left a bitter and vindictive taste in Perugia’s mouth.



Then there is a whole chapter titled "Anti-American Sentiment" which is based solely on Knox. No need to quote, we all know his opinion on that. They are all backward and corrupt.

A last recommendation from Moore:

Quote:
It is my considered opinion that residential studies programs in Toscana, Umbria and Marche should be avoided. Day trips to Florence, Assisi, Perugia, etc., may still be viable, with the caveat that any trouble with law enforcement can be extremely risky. When in doubt, leave the region. My wife and I attended the appeals trial of Amanda Knox in Perugia, and she herself was briefly taken into custody by Carabinieri police when the prosecutor became angered by something she said to him quietly and privately during a break in the proceeding. It was only after two hours that I was able to obtain her release.


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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bruce Fischer has registered a new Twitter account. At this critical stage it is not a good move to switch Twitter accounts.

Why now?

There have been various attempts by him to close the gossip threads on his forum. That was heavily contested by his members - understandably, as they remain the most active threads despite Fischer's other activities.


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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Because the sources don't want to be named, Zorba.

If we tell you there is a source for something and then don't name it, that should be a clear signal that it was given to us in confidence.

And we are not "everyone". Our track record on whether we can be trusted speaks for itself. If you still don't trust us, that's up to you.



Yes that's okay, however, it's not about trusting you or anyone here, that's not the issue, the issue is: presenting something as though it has an official status while it does not.

I have seen the photos/images of the hair, since they first came online, so I'm well-aware of that and to me, they are hair, but since they were lost and not analysed, shittily enough there is no source that can say they were hair, as in we have sources who say they are hair, yes I say they are too, however, there is NO OFFICIAL SOURCE saying they were hair, there cannot be since they were never analysed.

Like others I too see the photographic/video material as evidence and a lay judge can make up his or her own mind as to the likelihood of that they were, and I know now that nobody is ever going to say, ah it was mattress filling.

I share the sentiments many have about it needing to be covered in court, in my view as Chami said too, it is evidence, much of what judgments are based on, is sound reasoning, because it's that which makes sense of otherwise segmented parts, the segments here all join up to put a grapefruit back together, a bitter grapefruit.


To All and Sundry (everyone and each person separately)

It's strange I often think anyhow, the way one can talk so much then suddenly at some odd moment an image pops into the mind, whether during sleep or in a waking satate, and you know you are seeing things the way they were and are, as in remain, and this about the hair and the look on Knox, all around the cottage, to me she didn't look at all like someone does when upset at any loss, as in hurting through grief because of caring about someone, her look was anger, so Knox's hair got pulled and she was grabbed or chopped at to the neck, yes, Meredith defending herself.

I repeat, Knox is a scary person, even in court all as I got coming into my mind when listening to her whining tone was her when not in such a (formal) setting and going off in her emotional state (privately), her me me me state, her freaking out at someone, is all as I could see, all as I got images of was her going nuts on Meredith, taking out a lifetime of personal frustration on Meredith.

It's such a shame Knox never got help, and still has not received help.
I do not believe for 1 second that anyone in that family took therapy, as stated recently, i think they stated it because we here were on about how they did not and how Knox did not, undergo anything of the sort.
Their attempts are so weak, they are simply delusionsal that much is clear.

About the value of the Winterbottom film, my opinion is that it is zero, this because he too has not picked up on the real story, and I'm not about to reveal what it is, so that some profiteer can make yet another piece of shite, bu does he really think that the story is about wha happens to people around such a thing, when there are so many murders every single day of the year, and this much has been true since forever, did he need Meredith's murder (are there not millions of similar examples of disgracefully stupid and wicked human behaviour and is getting people who have only reputations for beihg party animals, coke sniffers, etc, into it, the way to go,... really, Cara what's her frigging name???) to glamorise Knox's position, allowing her to become delusionally vain, more vain than she already is, this crap all ties into Knox presenting herself in front of a huge bookcase like she is some kind of Professor, what.. Prof Murder Incorporated? ... silly looking glasses on the end of her nose, pen in hand, like a caricature in a cartoon, all as I get is the image of her thinking, yeah, I'm really something, I'm famous.

People propogating the myth are themselves mentally deranged, people from whom you'd expect a degree of intelligence act like so many nincompoops at an annual tea party conference of mad hatters.

Is using someone who is not even an actress, with the reputation she has (though I am not saying she is all bad, I'm saying such a person cannot be taken seriously in relation to anything to do with this matter) as in not done anything yet that anyone knows about and who is known as a model, the way to tackle such a serious matter?

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

As much as he likes to think he is Mr Moronic isn't the CIA FACTBOOK, his considered lard neck says

bla bla bla

Doesn't he imagine what he says is rather incredibly foolhardy considering the amount of violence in America where people do not seem, often, to understand the connection to having guns and the use of them, if one has a gun is one likely, more likely, to shoot one than if they didn't have one? Er, well, okay, what if you give someone a mobile phone, what does anyone think the chances are of people then making calls. Poor old unofficial CIA FACTBOOK version Mr Wotshisname, knows nothing about Italy, I am even surprised that he knows where it is, or does he? Maybe not.

I think he needs to go to Pakistan and defeat the Taliban, he is such an important man.

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Here is the link to the photo Nigel Scott tweeted that was discussed on .org.

There is no way in telling if this photo was taken when Sollecito visited Meredith's grave.

Image

IIRC someone on .org said Meredith's grave has a marbled gravestone now.


It goes without saying that I would not have visited Meredith's grave had I been in Sollecito's position. What is even worse to me is that he cannot keep it to himself. From now on, every time Meredith's loved ones go to her graveside to remember her, they will now know that her killer has been standing at the exact same spot.

I find this very hurtful. Bad enough that he could not respect the Kerchers wishes, on top of it he had to brag about it. He wants to let them know he was there.


My opinion only: To me it is clear that Amanda Knox felt rejected by Meredith and Knox didn't take it very well. The attack was about humiliation mostly. I have come to the conclusion that Amanda Knox felt at one point humiliated and wanted payback. She is still hurting that she did not emerge as the clear heroine from this court drama, Meredith still steals her the show. Knox's anger and contempt have come to light in her various interviews and imo she is too unintelligent and unfeeling to understand that the Kerchers will never receive her with open arms. They want to be left alone. Knox's approach suggesting they should acknowledge each others pain, grieve and visit Meredith's grave together is a foolproof method to be rejected again, not to talk about the backlash for her public image. Stupid is as stupid does. In my opinion Knox seeks recognition and acceptance.

For Sollecito I think it's more a trophy thing to visit Meredith's grave.

They are both deeply disturbed individuals.

As well Sollecito posted pictures on FB of his trip to Perugia after his release. Most are from a foggy night walk around the deserted streets. One shot looks to be the road leading away from the University very close to the cottage. Of course no shot of the cottage but you can bet he retraced his steps on his passeggiata.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

They don't know when to stop Malvern.

What in the world would he go to England for anyhow, under the circumstances, so tasteless, basically both he and Knox are stalking Meredith even as she lies in her grave and they are abusing Meredith's parents and family by ignoring their clear wishes, their forcing of the issue is entirely in line with the way they forced Meredith, nothing has changed.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Anyhow, Sollecito is supposed to be showing up tomorrow, I think, in the meantime, he took the opportunity to run, and have people think he'd be returning, I will be surprised if he does show up and if he does I hope he gets arrested immediately

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Do you think he won't show? That seems to be the general opinion. He is supposed to make a statement according to his father , not coming will only be seen as an admission of guilt. The result on the knife was what His father was hoping for, yes he told his son it is safe now to come back. The wait until the results were in was so obvious and even dad couldn't contain his relief that no further sample of Meredith or a new one from Guede was found. How arrogant for him to reveal the trip to the gravesite. Believe it or not a poster Mary on JREF defended the defendants right to visit her grave. According to Mary,whom I believe is a friend to Amanda ,it is the Kerchers who are behaving badly over their wish to keep the accused away. The online taunting of the Kerchers is expanded with supporters like Mary and Michelle.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hey Nell. Yeah, MM was real quiet and private...shouting out in the hallway wasn't it?
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I remember Sollecito went to the cottage in Perugia after his acquittal. There was an article about that. He went to the cottage to say a prayer or some bs. I don't remember if there was a picture. Now this visit to Meredith's grave is even worse. And yet again, his father has to do damage control. Unbelievable.
http://news.sky.com/story/1163726/mered ... sits-grave
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Gianluigi Nuzzi, an Italian journalist, tweets that Sollecito has already arrived in Florence.

Quote:
Gianluigi Nuzzi @GianluigiNuzzi

++++ Raffaele Sollecito atterrato a Firenze dagli Usa, in aula domani ++++


Quote:
Gianluigi Nuzzi @GianluigiNuzzi

+++ Raffaele Sollecito, atterrrato a Firenze proveniente da Miami, domani in aula processo morte Meredith +++
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
Hey Nell. Yeah, MM was real quiet and private...shouting out in the hallway wasn't it?


It's funny, isn't it?

The press didn't mention private and quiet. They used words like "drama", "outburst" and "shouting".

Anyway, how appropriate is it for a visitor to approach the prosecutor, even if it is during a break, and insult him? Steve Moore believes that if he downplays the loud outburst to a quiet conversation in which his wife insults the prosecutor, that makes it ok.


The Daily Mail

"A supporter of Amanda Knox has been questioned by police after she shouted 'You are evil' at one of the main prosecutors in the appeal case of the American student."


Nick Pisa for the London Evening Standard

"Michelle Moore sought out Giuliano Mignini during a break in court proceedings in Perugia, Italy, where Knox, 24, and her ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 25, are appealing against conviction for the 2007 murder of British student Meredith Kercher.

Witnesses said Mrs Moore marched over to Mr Mignini and shouted: "You are evil, you have no conscience." Others said she told him: "You have no heart."

A shocked Mr Mignini asked police to identify her after the outburst. She was asked to show her US passport and provide officers with her details. She was then taken away but was not arrested."


Steve Shay for The West Seattle Herald

"Also high drama in court today as Michelle Moore, the wife of Steve Moore, retired FBI expert and outspoken critic of the prosecution, (both in the courtroom as observers), decided it would be a good idea to let Mignini know she though he was "an evil person". She is now being detained. She may receive a costly fine for insulting (libeling) him. At this time she is not allowed to leave the building.

Update: She was held for an hour and has been released."
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
I remember Sollecito went to the cottage in Perugia after his acquittal. There was an article about that. He went to the cottage to say a prayer or some bs. I don't remember if there was a picture. Now this visit to Meredith's grave is even worse. And yet again, his father has to do damage control. Unbelievable.
http://news.sky.com/story/1163726/mered ... sits-grave


Reportedly Quarto Grado spilled the beans and Francesco Sollecito then "explained".

However, going to Meredith's grave and snapping pictures does not seem appropriate to me.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he also recently said in one of his interviews that this wasn't the right time? Now it turns out "the right time" was seven months ago!
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Do you think he won't show? That seems to be the general opinion. He is supposed to make a statement according to his father, not coming will only be seen as an admission of guilt. The result on the knife was what His father was hoping for, yes he told his son it is safe now to come back. The wait until the results were in was so obvious and even dad couldn't contain his relief that no further sample of Meredith or a new one from Guede was found. How arrogant for him to reveal the trip to the gravesite. Believe it or not a poster Mary on JREF defended the defendant's right to visit her grave. According to Mary,whom I believe is a friend to Amanda, it is the Kerchers who are behaving badly over their wish to keep the accused away. The online taunting of the Kerchers is expanded with supporters like Mary and Michelle.


Yes, didn't think he would.

However, him not returning, and running, means for always, while Knox is not from there so it is slightly different.

What I think is he wants to make it look, as much as he can, as though he is innocent,
and in his dense head,
he thinks saying he visited Meredith’s grave will lead to the judges thinking he cares,
yet if they are aware, or are made aware that Meredith's family think they are guilty and did not want them visiting Meredith's grave,
I'm sure a few harsh people without education or literacy as you mention ranting on about how bad the Kerchers are for having wishes regarding their murdered daughter, has no relevancy or weight, it's simply a matter of taste, respectful behaviour and good manners; either you have these qualities or you do not, neither Knox nor Sollecito possess these eklements, they sincerely lack all of these things.

Disregarding what parents of a murdered person says, as to what they'd like, as regards something so personal and intimate as your child's grave, where those plaguing the parents are actually the ones the parents view as having murdered their child, is something I think the judges will view with distain.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I bet any money you like if he does attend court to do his speech, he'll get out of Italy right after, he will not be findable and he will definitely leave Italy before any ruling.

I just do not see him hanging around because I do not see him prepared to accept his punishment, if the ruling does go against him.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Gianluigi Nuzzi, an Italian journalist, tweets that Sollecito has already arrived in Florence.

Thanks. I can't imagine he didn't make sure he wouldn't be arrested. So I guess he got nothing to lose. Going to make some lame statement I am sure. I noticed judge Nencini has a sense of humor, so maybe he will give him a big 'welcome' :)
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

If I remember correctly, Yummi wrote on .org some time after the acquittal that they couple would not be arrested until after the Supreme Court ruling.

I cannot say if that still applies given that Amanda Knox has publicly declared she won't come back for her appeal or accept any unfavourable outcome, while she lectures the Italian courts from afar. Sollecito is not any better. Since he was released, he has travelled the world looking for a place to hide. He has tried - and failed - to establish himself in different countries around the world, preferrably those with no extradition treaty.

So given these circumstances, both basically admitting they are not willing to accept the court's ruling, I am not sure there is not a possibility for him to find himself arrested.

These two are not on trial for insurance fraud. They are charged with sexual assault and murder.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
I bet any money you like if he does attend court to do his speech, he'll get out of Italy right after, he will not be findable and he will definitely leave Italy before any ruling.

I just do not see him hanging around because I do not see him prepared to accept his punishment, if the ruling does go against him.


I agree.

That's exactly what he's going to do if he is given the chance.
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
I bet any money you like if he does attend court to do his speech, he'll get out of Italy right after, he will not be findable and he will definitely leave Italy before any ruling.

I just do not see him hanging around because I do not see him prepared to accept his punishment, if the ruling does go against him.


I think one of the existentialists once said: Tu n'iras pas loin: la porte est fermée.
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Offline SqueakEMouse


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

If he does run he's going to find that the publicity and notoriety that he has helped generate will make it well nigh impossible to hide. Ironically it was Oggi that revealed he was in the Dominican Republic; the outlet most willing to broadcast his drivel and bang the drum for him. There are not that many places that he can go that will not have extradition treaties in place. Money will be a problem. He must have some tucked away courtesy of Papa, while the SuckersComeFundMe donors have no doubt helped. But his options will be limited if he cannot pop his head up and earn his way and I don't think his family are so wealthy that they can fund the life of a fugitive forever.

He will be cut off from family except for furtive meetings and for such a weak character as him I think that will be tough too. All in all I don't think he's the type to make a success of making a life as an absconded criminal. I don't think he would last long at all. But he's such a coward and arrogant with it that I can't see him hanging around to hear a sentence read out. So I think he'll carry on along the same path; stringing everything out as long as possible, hiding and whinging to any media willing to listen and lying as best he can. I doubt Russia will invite him to be Ed Snowden's roommate and the Venezuelan embassy seems packed out already. Dominica is not that safe unless you have stacks of money I hear. North Korea may be an option. We'll see what the weasel does.
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Offline Slade


Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:39 pm

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Will Raffe do the right thing?   

Intuition fails me -- don't have a clue what knife-boy will do now he's reportedly returned to Italy. At this point, wouldn't even exclude he would do harm to himself in a pity play for leniency, although probably too cowardly to actually end his life to prevent further shame to his family's name. If he does see his situation as utterly hopeless, at the very least, please leave a note for John and Arline Kercher finally revealing what happened to their youngest child. wg-))

Note: this is not a suggestion for RS to choose any route...simply considering what he may do.

On the other hand, AK is easier to figure out. Listened to the 3rd segment of her King 5 TV interview again where she states to Linda B. that she will not return to Italy, and will not "willingfully" return to prison. 'Wilingfully' is not even a word -- another oops by AK, but her intent appears obvious. If convicted, AK will run. la_) Off to travel the world!


Last edited by Slade on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Google tgcom24 sollecito firenze and you can watch a video of his arrival in Florence. Dad and his lawyer meet him and carry his bag to the car.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks malvern. Here's the link to the video:

L'arrivo di Sollecito a Firenze

http://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/2013/video/l-arrivo-di-sollecito-a-firenze_2003687.shtml

I can't watch it though, getting a message instead about the need to install Flash or Silverlight plugin.... I have both on my PC, so that's a bit strange.

ETA: Was able to grab this screen shot before getting a black screen. co-)

Attachment:
l'arrivo di Sollecito a Firenze.JPG


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Raffe breaks the $25,000 barrier!   

Breaking News: Raffaele Sollecito has finally broken through the $25,000 barrier on his GoFundMe.com 'begging friends for funding' site. Yippee!!! What will he do with all that moolah?
c-))
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Ergon wrote:
McCall wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Michael wrote:
Meredith Kercher Murder Accused Visits Grave
Raffaele Sollecito was taken to Meredith's grave in Surrey by an English friend while visiting London in March, a report says.


By Nick Pisa, Sky News Reporter


SKY MEWS


I am very interested in knowing the 'English friend' who accompanied him to Meredith's grave. It appears to be one of his followers who writes under the name 'Croydon Guardian' to various sites, and has made several nasty comments about Arline Kercher, and how Meredith's Leeds University wasn't 'top rank' and about the Kerchers being 'middle class'. He also seems to be a member of the EDF.

Like attracts like, I guess.


The friend was Nigel Scott.


Not surprised. Does he have an account where he posted this?


.org discussed it. He has a picture of them there either on his Facebook or Twitter. If you look on .org and go back a couple of days you'll see them discussing it and the link to where the picture is.


I sent him a tweet asking if it was him that accompanied RS to Meredith's grave and whether he took the photo. Should be interesting to hear back from him, but I note that "Nigel Scott" claims to be in London, and perturbed to think he may have visited before. Ghouls.

BTW, he appears to be posting as member "erasmus44" on Bruce Fischer's board. He made the same joke about testing his kitchen knife for DNA and not finding Meredith's, so, and all around asshole. He also claims to have attended his 45th law school reunion and there was a talk from his law school prof Alan Dershowitz.

Shakespeare's exhortation about what to do with lawyers comes to mind.... :)
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Offline zorba


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Posts: 4233

Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
zorba wrote:
I bet any money you like if he does attend court to do his speech, he'll get out of Italy right after, he will not be findable and he will definitely leave Italy before any ruling.

I just do not see him hanging around because I do not see him prepared to accept his punishment, if the ruling does go against him.


I think one of the existentialists once said: Tu n'iras pas loin: la porte est fermée.

'

Ha, I knew that guy... Jerome Waerevva Burt Ders Nowaer Tahydde was his nickname if I recall, but he preferred Bill
u will not get far: the door is closed

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

SqueakEMouse wrote:
If he does run he's going to find that the publicity and notoriety that he has helped generate will make it well nigh impossible to hide. Ironically it was Oggi that revealed he was in the Dominican Republic; the outlet most willing to broadcast his drivel and bang the drum for him. There are not that many places that he can go that will not have extradition treaties in place. Money will be a problem. He must have some tucked away courtesy of Papa, while the SuckersComeFundMe donors have no doubt helped. But his options will be limited if he cannot pop his head up and earn his way and I don't think his family are so wealthy that they can fund the life of a fugitive forever.

He will be cut off from family except for furtive meetings and for such a weak character as him I think that will be tough too. All in all I don't think he's the type to make a success of making a life as an absconded criminal. I don't think he would last long at all. But he's such a coward and arrogant with it that I can't see him hanging around to hear a sentence read out. So I think he'll carry on along the same path; stringing everything out as long as possible, hiding and whinging to any media willing to listen and lying as best he can. I doubt Russia will invite him to be Ed Snowden's roommate and the Venezuelan embassy seems packed out already. Dominica is not that safe unless you have stacks of money I hear. North Korea may be an option. We'll see what the weasel does.



You've named a few of his main characteristics... arrogant, etc, all this stuff he's been up to,
as Yummi indicated,
yes,
obviously he wouldn't be coming back if he imagined there was a chance of getting nabbed,
however,
Nell, I hope Yummi is wrong,
and he could be,
because Sollecito has made a lot of accusations,
and just maybe there will be one or two things that the law unexpectedly or maybe expectedly,
depends on which angle you view it from,
uses to pick him up,
and hold him,
since he has shown that he is a definite flight risk,
no matter and aside from his making a show of returning.
After all, Knox ain't about to return if found guilty a second time.

And where was Sollecito all of the time, not in Italy, dad has obviously had a talk with him, on advice from the lawyers, or they've jointly got together to tell him it will look better if he makes an appearance, listen son, show you care, say you visited the English girl's grave.

I'm not sure I believe he actually did make a visit, though as far as him being a loathsome lousy excuse for a human goes, it makes it quite possible he did go.

For the stain that Knox put on the name the Beatles she deserves life, that's aside from any punishment for murder.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline SqueakEMouse


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Posts: 184

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Raffe breaks the $25,000 barrier!   

Slade wrote:
Breaking News: Raffaele Sollecito has finally broken through the $25,000 barrier on his GoFundMe.com 'begging friends for funding' site. Yippee!!! What will he do with all that moolah?
c-))


There really are some mugs out there. Mind you, I bet $20,000 came from Papa to make the total look more impressive. I don't know how the site works. Is that a pledge total or money already parted with?

I'm off to write a sob story about having to walk dangerous streets in the dark for my pitch on GoFundMyNewCar. Ten thou will do nicely, I'm not greedy. All for a good cause.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Raffe breaks the $25,000 barrier!   

SqueakEMouse wrote:
Slade wrote:
Breaking News: Raffaele Sollecito has finally broken through the $25,000 barrier on his GoFundMe.com 'begging friends for funding' site. Yippee!!! What will he do with all that moolah?
c-))


There really are some mugs out there. Mind you, I bet $20,000 came from Papa to make the total look more impressive. I don't know how the site works. Is that a pledge total or money already parted with?

I'm off to write a sob story about having to walk dangerous streets in the dark for my pitch on GoFundMyNewCar. Ten thou will do nicely, I'm not greedy. All for a good cause.



Right Squeakus, I wonder if I could get some dough for my new restaurant!!!

Thing is, he has a right to a state-funded lawyer, but he wants to pretend he needs someone like Bongiorno, sometimes I think that woman is far stranger than Sollecito is, what with her defending mafia and being in anything at all to do with Berlusconi; did she attend the bunga bunga nights?

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Offline zorba


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Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:

I sent him a tweet asking if it was him that accompanied RS to Meredith's grave and whether he took the photo. Should be interesting to hear back from him, but I note that "Nigel Scott" claims to be in London, and perturbed to think he may have visited before. Ghouls.

BTW, he appears to be posting as member "erasmus44" on Bruce Fischer's board. He made the same joke about testing his kitchen knife for DNA and not finding Meredith's, so, and all around asshole. He also claims to have attended his 45th law school reunion and there was a talk from his law school prof Alan Dershowitz.

Shakespeare's exhortation about what to do with lawyers comes to mind.... :)



I suspect this is yet another name chosen to sound British, now they didn't want to be caught out too fast by being over the top what with the London this the Cup of tea that, and all of those ridiculous sounding names so he/she chose Nigel, a real British name, then moved north for the Scott bit; actually it is probably yet another moron from Seattle or thereabouts.

One of their most vicious posters has such a foul mouth and mind that there could just about only be one of him/her, posting everywhere, seems like someone who has no education, no job or anything else.

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Offline SqueakEMouse


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
SqueakEMouse wrote:
If he does run he's going to find that the publicity and notoriety that he has helped generate will make it well nigh impossible to hide. Ironically it was Oggi that revealed he was in the Dominican Republic; the outlet most willing to broadcast his drivel and bang the drum for him. There are not that many places that he can go that will not have extradition treaties in place. Money will be a problem. He must have some tucked away courtesy of Papa, while the SuckersComeFundMe donors have no doubt helped. But his options will be limited if he cannot pop his head up and earn his way and I don't think his family are so wealthy that they can fund the life of a fugitive forever.

He will be cut off from family except for furtive meetings and for such a weak character as him I think that will be tough too. All in all I don't think he's the type to make a success of making a life as an absconded criminal. I don't think he would last long at all. But he's such a coward and arrogant with it that I can't see him hanging around to hear a sentence read out. So I think he'll carry on along the same path; stringing everything out as long as possible, hiding and whinging to any media willing to listen and lying as best he can. I doubt Russia will invite him to be Ed Snowden's roommate and the Venezuelan embassy seems packed out already. Dominica is not that safe unless you have stacks of money I hear. North Korea may be an option. We'll see what the weasel does.



You've named a few of his main characteristics... arrogant, etc, all this stuff he's been up to,
as Yummi indicated,
yes,
obviously he wouldn't be coming back if he imagined there was a chance of getting nabbed,
however,
Nell, I hope Yummi is wrong,
and he could be,
because Sollecito has made a lot of accusations,
and just maybe there will be one or two things that the law unexpectedly or maybe expectedly,
depends on which angle you view it from,
uses to pick him up,
and hold him,
since he has shown that he is a definite flight risk,
no matter and aside from his making a show of returning.
After all, Knox ain't about to return if found guilty a second time.

And where was Sollecito all of the time, not in Italy, dad has obviously had a talk with him, on advice from the lawyers, or they've jointly got together to tell him it will look better if he makes an appearance, listen son, show you care, say you visited the English girl's grave.

I'm not sure I believe he actually did make a visit, though as far as him being a loathsome lousy excuse for a human goes, it makes it quite possible he did go.

For the stain that Knox put on the name the Beatles she deserves life, that's aside from any punishment for murder.



It's hard to find words for his story of the visit to the grave, true or not. He seems to be in competition with Knox. No sooner does she announce on TV that she wants to go than he trumps her with 'Already been!' The date he chooses to announce it? November 1st of all days. There's sadism and a revelling in a feeling of power and ownership in that. No vaguely normal human being would be blind to the huge offence and pain that this would bring the family and the disrespect that it shows to them and to Meredith. But here he is seemingly believing that he is showing sympathy and generosity of spirit and they should accept that on his terms. He cannot have normal feelings at all, certainly no empathy or understanding of respect. He makes a show of having them and demonstrates his total emptiness instead. An empty heart and an empty head. Nothing there but self regard, entitlement and self pity. It's a trait he shares with Knox. She blunders around trying to show sympathy and it always rings hollow but she cannot understand why she is not believed. What a terrible coincidence that these two found each other.
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Offline Slade


Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:39 pm

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Raffe breaks the $25,000 barrier!   

SqueakEMouse wrote:
Slade wrote:
Breaking News: Raffaele Sollecito has finally broken through the $25,000 barrier on his GoFundMe.com 'begging friends for funding' site. Yippee!!! What will he do with all that moolah?
c-))


There really are some mugs out there. Mind you, I bet $20,000 came from Papa to make the total look more impressive. I don't know how the site works. Is that a pledge total or money already parted with?

I'm off to write a sob story about having to walk dangerous streets in the dark for my pitch on GoFundMyNewCar. Ten thou will do nicely, I'm not greedy. All for a good cause.



Here's the site url:
http://www.gofundme.com/3bct8o

Funding a car is a frequent plea -- give it a try. Apparently there are approximately 228 stupid 'mugs' out there for their boy Raffe. This is money donated and transactions received, but the site gets a cut.
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Offline Napia5


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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

SqueakEMouse wrote:
zorba wrote:
SqueakEMouse wrote:
If he does run he's going to find that the publicity and notoriety that he has helped generate will make it well nigh impossible to hide. Ironically it was Oggi that revealed he was in the Dominican Republic; the outlet most willing to broadcast his drivel and bang the drum for him. There are not that many places that he can go that will not have extradition treaties in place. Money will be a problem. He must have some tucked away courtesy of Papa, while the SuckersComeFundMe donors have no doubt helped. But his options will be limited if he cannot pop his head up and earn his way and I don't think his family are so wealthy that they can fund the life of a fugitive forever.

He will be cut off from family except for furtive meetings and for such a weak character as him I think that will be tough too. All in all I don't think he's the type to make a success of making a life as an absconded criminal. I don't think he would last long at all. But he's such a coward and arrogant with it that I can't see him hanging around to hear a sentence read out. So I think he'll carry on along the same path; stringing everything out as long as possible, hiding and whinging to any media willing to listen and lying as best he can. I doubt Russia will invite him to be Ed Snowden's roommate and the Venezuelan embassy seems packed out already. Dominica is not that safe unless you have stacks of money I hear. North Korea may be an option. We'll see what the weasel does.



You've named a few of his main characteristics... arrogant, etc, all this stuff he's been up to,
as Yummi indicated,
yes,
obviously he wouldn't be coming back if he imagined there was a chance of getting nabbed,
however,
Nell, I hope Yummi is wrong,
and he could be,
because Sollecito has made a lot of accusations,
and just maybe there will be one or two things that the law unexpectedly or maybe expectedly,
depends on which angle you view it from,
uses to pick him up,
and hold him,
since he has shown that he is a definite flight risk,
no matter and aside from his making a show of returning.
After all, Knox ain't about to return if found guilty a second time.

And where was Sollecito all of the time, not in Italy, dad has obviously had a talk with him, on advice from the lawyers, or they've jointly got together to tell him it will look better if he makes an appearance, listen son, show you care, say you visited the English girl's grave.

I'm not sure I believe he actually did make a visit, though as far as him being a loathsome lousy excuse for a human goes, it makes it quite possible he did go.

For the stain that Knox put on the name the Beatles she deserves life, that's aside from any punishment for murder.



It's hard to find words for his story of the visit to the grave, true or not. He seems to be in competition with Knox. No sooner does she announce on TV that she wants to go than he trumps her with 'Already been!' The date he chooses to announce it? November 1st of all days. There's sadism and a revelling in a feeling of power and ownership in that. No vaguely normal human being would be blind to the huge offence and pain that this would bring the family and the disrespect that it shows to them and to Meredith. But here he is seemingly believing that he is showing sympathy and generosity of spirit and they should accept that on his terms. He cannot have normal feelings at all, certainly no empathy or understanding of respect. He makes a show of having them and demonstrates his total emptiness instead. An empty heart and an empty head. Nothing there but self regard, entitlement and self pity. It's a trait he shares with Knox. She blunders around trying to show sympathy and it always rings hollow but she cannot understand why she is not believed. What a terrible coincidence that these two found each other.


If there was such a need for prayer and closure, why didn't they attend the memorial the week Meredith was murdered? The level of vile bullsh*t spread by all of them is just plain disgusting.
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Offline Slade


Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:39 pm

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Image


Thought this very funny photo needed a "curtain call!" Steve Moore, GMan and A$$Clown!

For Steve and his deranged fellow minions, hope Nov. 6th brings you the tidings y'all deserve! :mrgreen:

picture of a pumpkin
This Post has been edited by a Moderator
Details: Adjusted image to fix forum width.
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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:

I sent him a tweet asking if it was him that accompanied RS to Meredith's grave and whether he took the photo. Should be interesting to hear back from him, but I note that "Nigel Scott" claims to be in London, and perturbed to think he may have visited before. Ghouls.

BTW, he appears to be posting as member "erasmus44" on Bruce Fischer's board. He made the same joke about testing his kitchen knife for DNA and not finding Meredith's, so, and all around asshole. He also claims to have attended his 45th law school reunion and there was a talk from his law school prof Alan Dershowitz.

Shakespeare's exhortation about what to do with lawyers comes to mind.... :)



I suspect this is yet another name chosen to sound British, now they didn't want to be caught out too fast by being over the top what with the London this the Cup of tea that, and all of those ridiculous sounding names so he/she chose Nigel, a real British name, then moved north for the Scott bit; actually it is probably yet another moron from Seattle or thereabouts.

One of their most vicious posters has such a foul mouth and mind that there could just about only be one of him/her, posting everywhere, seems like someone who has no education, no job or anything else.


Funny you should say that, zorba. According to Kermit who wrote about it in TJMK, "Nigel Scott" is a local Liberal Democrat councilor in the London suburb of Haringey, and he hasn't replied yet to my queries on Ground Report or Twitter. But still, looking into his background, since they seem to be busy looking up all my information at this time ;) this is what I found:

https://twitter.com/gronff/status/397493815960805376
Quote:
Nigel Scott‏@gronff 23h
"I have had my kitchen knife tested for DNA. It has mine but not Meredith's so I guess that makes me a suspect."


Here he is posting the same 'joke' as user Erasmus44 on Bruce's forum.
http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/v ... 27#p120527

Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum
Post by erasmus44 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:03 pm
Quote:
"Because I have memory problems, I had a knife in my kitchen drawer tested recently. It turned out to have my DNA on it but no DNA of MK. So I guess that means that it is likely that I was responsible for this crime."


And here he is, claiming to be a lawyer who had Alan Dershowitz as his law professor!
http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/v ... 80#p120580
O.J. Simpson Case - Dershowitz Observations
Post by erasmus44 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:38 pm

Quote:
"I just attended my 45th law school reunion and there was an extensive "conversation with Alan Dershowitz" - my criminal law professor 47 years ago and a brilliant lawyer and author. He made a very persuasive case that certain evidence (a "bloody" sock) in the O. J. Simpson case was cleared planted by the police and then asked the following question to the audience and requested a show of hands - "If you knew the police planted evidence but were convinced the defendant was guilty, would you vote to convict or acquit?" I thought I saw him started to raise his hand for "convict" but I may very well be mistaken. Many in the audience (lawyers and spouses) raised their hands for "acquit" - I really couldn't decide. His case that the evidence was planted was very, very persuasive and disturbing to me.
He also discussed the Von Bulow case and again made a very persuasive argument that the forensic evidence demonstrated innocence.
All in all, a fascinating discussion.
On the acquit or convict issue, I am still uncertain. Perhaps because of my background, I have generally assumed that the authorities would have no incentive to concoct evidence or lie in court but it is increasingly clear that I am hopelessly naïve."


Local councilor and studied at Harvard School, of Law? Who'd a thunk it? :)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

SqueakEMouse wrote:
zorba wrote:
SqueakEMouse wrote:
If he does run he's going to find that the publicity and notoriety that he has helped generate will make it well nigh impossible to hide. Ironically it was Oggi that revealed he was in the Dominican Republic; the outlet most willing to broadcast his drivel and bang the drum for him. There are not that many places that he can go that will not have extradition treaties in place. Money will be a problem. He must have some tucked away courtesy of Papa, while the SuckersComeFundMe donors have no doubt helped. But his options will be limited if he cannot pop his head up and earn his way and I don't think his family are so wealthy that they can fund the life of a fugitive forever.

He will be cut off from family except for furtive meetings and for such a weak character as him I think that will be tough too. All in all I don't think he's the type to make a success of making a life as an absconded criminal. I don't think he would last long at all. But he's such a coward and arrogant with it that I can't see him hanging around to hear a sentence read out. So I think he'll carry on along the same path; stringing everything out as long as possible, hiding and whinging to any media willing to listen and lying as best he can. I doubt Russia will invite him to be Ed Snowden's roommate and the Venezuelan embassy seems packed out already. Dominica is not that safe unless you have stacks of money I hear. North Korea may be an option. We'll see what the weasel does.



You've named a few of his main characteristics... arrogant, etc, all this stuff he's been up to,
as Yummi indicated,
yes,
obviously he wouldn't be coming back if he imagined there was a chance of getting nabbed,
however,
Nell, I hope Yummi is wrong,
and he could be,
because Sollecito has made a lot of accusations,
and just maybe there will be one or two things that the law unexpectedly or maybe expectedly,
depends on which angle you view it from,
uses to pick him up,
and hold him,
since he has shown that he is a definite flight risk,
no matter and aside from his making a show of returning.
After all, Knox ain't about to return if found guilty a second time.

And where was Sollecito all of the time, not in Italy, dad has obviously had a talk with him, on advice from the lawyers, or they've jointly got together to tell him it will look better if he makes an appearance, listen son, show you care, say you visited the English girl's grave.

I'm not sure I believe he actually did make a visit, though as far as him being a loathsome lousy excuse for a human goes, it makes it quite possible he did go.

For the stain that Knox put on the name the Beatles she deserves life, that's aside from any punishment for murder.



It's hard to find words for his story of the visit to the grave, true or not. He seems to be in competition with Knox. No sooner does she announce on TV that she wants to go than he trumps her with 'Already been!' The date he chooses to announce it? November 1st of all days. There's sadism and a revelling in a feeling of power and ownership in that. No vaguely normal human being would be blind to the huge offence and pain that this would bring the family and the disrespect that it shows to them and to Meredith. But here he is seemingly believing that he is showing sympathy and generosity of spirit and they should accept that on his terms. He cannot have normal feelings at all, certainly no empathy or understanding of respect. He makes a show of having them and demonstrates his total emptiness instead. An empty heart and an empty head. Nothing there but self regard, entitlement and self pity. It's a trait he shares with Knox. She blunders around trying to show sympathy and it always rings hollow but she cannot understand why she is not believed. What a terrible coincidence that these two found each other.


Quote Sqeak
An empty heart and an empty head.
Unquote

I agree with every word, and, you put it so well, exactly what I want to say but am not always up to it, for me, even following one link wipes me out. I cannot better a single word of the above.


Ergon, I saw that today looking into the Scott person, and I was wondering if it could be this person, only I do not know how one can determine if it is or is not him unless he has links to what he actually is. I know this is not about or should not be about national boundaries, but the guy is such a traitor if that is him, I mean what is his bag, as a Londoner, doing disgusting things like acting as guide to Meredith's grave, for the murderer, as far as I can see, of Meredith.

That wiped me out today, as does reading what those types write, like nasty stuff about Meredith's parents, since they've hardly said a word and just followed the correct course of law, that treatment of them at no level, from no angle, could ever be realistic, it's just the dregs of society latching on and expressing their awful characters, sadly, the internet has provided an endless platform for every no-brainer running loose, spouting off nasty, totally ill-informed nonsense.

Words fail me (too) with which to express all of the wrongs about all of those around Knox and Sollecito.
Anyhow, let's see what Sollecito attempts later today.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
SqueakEMouse wrote:
zorba wrote:
SqueakEMouse wrote:
If he does run he's going to find that the publicity and notoriety that he has helped generate will make it well nigh impossible to hide. Ironically it was Oggi that revealed he was in the Dominican Republic; the outlet most willing to broadcast his drivel and bang the drum for him. There are not that many places that he can go that will not have extradition treaties in place. Money will be a problem. He must have some tucked away courtesy of Papa, while the SuckersComeFundMe donors have no doubt helped. But his options will be limited if he cannot pop his head up and earn his way and I don't think his family are so wealthy that they can fund the life of a fugitive forever.

He will be cut off from family except for furtive meetings and for such a weak character as him I think that will be tough too. All in all I don't think he's the type to make a success of making a life as an absconded criminal. I don't think he would last long at all. But he's such a coward and arrogant with it that I can't see him hanging around to hear a sentence read out. So I think he'll carry on along the same path; stringing everything out as long as possible, hiding and whinging to any media willing to listen and lying as best he can. I doubt Russia will invite him to be Ed Snowden's roommate and the Venezuelan embassy seems packed out already. Dominica is not that safe unless you have stacks of money I hear. North Korea may be an option. We'll see what the weasel does.



You've named a few of his main characteristics... arrogant, etc, all this stuff he's been up to,
as Yummi indicated,
yes,
obviously he wouldn't be coming back if he imagined there was a chance of getting nabbed,
however,
Nell, I hope Yummi is wrong,
and he could be,
because Sollecito has made a lot of accusations,
and just maybe there will be one or two things that the law unexpectedly or maybe expectedly,
depends on which angle you view it from,
uses to pick him up,
and hold him,
since he has shown that he is a definite flight risk,
no matter and aside from his making a show of returning.
After all, Knox ain't about to return if found guilty a second time.

And where was Sollecito all of the time, not in Italy, dad has obviously had a talk with him, on advice from the lawyers, or they've jointly got together to tell him it will look better if he makes an appearance, listen son, show you care, say you visited the English girl's grave.

I'm not sure I believe he actually did make a visit, though as far as him being a loathsome lousy excuse for a human goes, it makes it quite possible he did go.

For the stain that Knox put on the name the Beatles she deserves life, that's aside from any punishment for murder.



It's hard to find words for his story of the visit to the grave, true or not. He seems to be in competition with Knox. No sooner does she announce on TV that she wants to go than he trumps her with 'Already been!' The date he chooses to announce it? November 1st of all days. There's sadism and a revelling in a feeling of power and ownership in that. No vaguely normal human being would be blind to the huge offence and pain that this would bring the family and the disrespect that it shows to them and to Meredith. But here he is seemingly believing that he is showing sympathy and generosity of spirit and they should accept that on his terms. He cannot have normal feelings at all, certainly no empathy or understanding of respect. He makes a show of having them and demonstrates his total emptiness instead. An empty heart and an empty head. Nothing there but self regard, entitlement and self pity. It's a trait he shares with Knox. She blunders around trying to show sympathy and it always rings hollow but she cannot understand why she is not believed. What a terrible coincidence that these two found each other.


If there was such a need for prayer and closure, why didn't they attend the memorial the week Meredith was murdered? The level of vile bullsh*t spread by all of them is just plain disgusting.


Yes using such things to try to play into people's emotions is the only thing they are up to, as Mouse said, feel anything is something foreign to them.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith, Sollecito arrived in Florence. "I have many things to say." On Wednesday, the trial

Sollecito returned from Santo Domingo where he was on vacation, landing in Florence with a flight from Frankfurt and left the airport accompanied by his father. As previously announced, Raffaele Sollecito intends to make spontaneous statements before the magistrates: "I have many things to say," he said.
...
Sollecito arrived at the airport of Peretola but declined to speak to reporters.

Tomorrow in the courtroom the Ris Carabinieri will present the assessment carried out on a track of DNA found on the knife believed by the prosecution to be the murder weapon. The analysis revealed a quantity of genetic material ''extremely small'' with ''a high degree of compatibility'' with ''the genetic profile of Amanda.'' After the illustration of expertise on the part of Ris, will speak tomorrow consultants of the accused, the Kercher family and the Attorney General. Already at the beginning of the trial, Sollecito 's father had announced that his son would participate in a trial hearing. Today he has confirmed that Raffaele has returned to Italy after a holiday abroad, and that tomorrow he will be in the courtroom.


LA NAZIONE (FIRENZE)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Raffe breaks the $25,000 barrier!   

Slade wrote:
Breaking News: Raffaele Sollecito has finally broken through the $25,000 barrier on his GoFundMe.com 'begging friends for funding' site. Yippee!!! What will he do with all that moolah?
c-))

Well, I think he's been spending it on travel. He's been to Seattle, been to New York, been to San Francisco, been to the Dominican Republic, and now back to Italy . . . That's a lot of airplane tickets, as I'm sure these were round trips back to where he was staying in-between. Interesting itineraries for somebody who has to beg for money.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

And to the UK, more then once, don't forget.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Have there been any sightings of Frank?
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
max wrote:
zorba wrote:
max wrote:

Max you have to issue a a clear warning with stuff like that: CNN's Fredricka Whitfield talks with Steve Moore about discrepancies he found in the Amanda Knox case.

Yah sorry, it is so embarrassing that it made me laugh, but they allow him to talk on CNN so good for him...I guess.


Steve Moore appeared nervous in this video. What's wrong with his mouth? The corners of his mouth go up and down all the time when he is not speaking. Looks like a nervous tick.

Regarding the suspect of the LAX airport shooting Steve Moore says "But at the same time you cannot just say, ok, he said it. Case closed. We are gone. What you have to do is verify everything he said ... I mean, it could take a year before trial ... to go through everything he said. You cannot just take a confession, those are too easy to get from innocent people." :shock:

I am also disappointed that he did not bring up the screenshot of the Twitter fake account.


Moore's claim that it's easy to get confessions from innocent people caught my attention as well. Patrick Lumumba held his ground and refused to accept responsibility for something he did not do. Why wasn't it easy to get a false confession from him? I think that Moore's statement is agenda driven rather than truthful.

I have to wonder what Moore's former colleagues think of his claim about easily obtaining false confessions, and how that reflects on any of the work that he did with the FBI. I suspect that every time Moore opens his mouth, they cringe and wonder where the fallout will be.

I asked our good buddy STeve if he is still doing crack...his reply was predictable. Tauntingly he said Amanda is free an will always be. Too bad he does not know she is in her own personal prison. He has as much depth as a petri dish. Go G-man
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Have there been any sightings of Frank?


I have not heard of any sightings yet. :-)

It's easy to forget: There will be two trials today. The appeal and Frank Sfarzo's new trial.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

No surprises.
Quote:
Raffaele Sollecito, the former boyfriend of Amanda Knox, could make a statement in Italian court claiming neither of them are guilty of murdering Meredith Kercher, his father has said.

http://news.sky.com/story/1164497/solle ... e-in-court
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Have there been any sightings of Frank?


I have not heard of any sightings yet. :-)

It's easy to forget: There will be two trials today. The appeal and Frank Sfarzo's new trial.


I wonder how Frank feels about missing out on Raffaele's appearance in court. A bit ironic, I'd say.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Quote from Tom Kington's article max linked above:

Quote:
After Wednesday's hearing, the trial will pick up again on November 25 for final arguments from the prosecution.

Dates will then be set for the final arguments from defence lawyers and rebuttals.


SKY NEWS
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nigel Scott is indeed the local Liberal Democrat councillor for Haringey, zorba, as confirmed by many at TJMK and. ORG. His claim to have studied at Harvard Law, is someone else's discovery :-)

I agree, it is sad that many Knox groupies are from the UK, but they're all media, or, angry flakes.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Raffe breaks the $25,000 barrier!   

sherrel wrote:
Slade wrote:
Breaking News: Raffaele Sollecito has finally broken through the $25,000 barrier on his GoFundMe.com 'begging friends for funding' site. Yippee!!! What will he do with all that moolah?
c-))

Well, I think he's been spending it on travel. He's been to Seattle, been to New York, been to San Francisco, been to the Dominican Republic, and now back to Italy . . . That's a lot of airplane tickets, as I'm sure these were round trips back to where he was staying in-between. Interesting itineraries for somebody who has to beg for money.

Michael wrote:
And to the UK, more then once, don't forget.

I forgot about that. I would think all those airline tickets and hotel bills (minus when he stayed at friends and relatives) would add up to several thousands of dollars. Wouldn't it have been prudent to have saved all that travel money? I know he will probably say that none of the GoFundMe.com money was spent on his travel, but really, it all comes out of an accumulated pile of dough. So, in effect he is spending the GoFundMe.com money on his world travels and vacations.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione photo gallery (7 photos):

Raffaele Sollecito arriva a Firenze per l'udienza del 6 novembre

MULTIMEDIA QUOTIDIANO
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Raffe breaks the $25,000 barrier!   

sherrel wrote:
sherrel wrote:
Slade wrote:
Breaking News: Raffaele Sollecito has finally broken through the $25,000 barrier on his GoFundMe.com 'begging friends for funding' site. Yippee!!! What will he do with all that moolah?
c-))

Well, I think he's been spending it on travel. He's been to Seattle, been to New York, been to San Francisco, been to the Dominican Republic, and now back to Italy . . . That's a lot of airplane tickets, as I'm sure these were round trips back to where he was staying in-between. Interesting itineraries for somebody who has to beg for money.

Michael wrote:
And to the UK, more then once, don't forget.

I forgot about that. I would think all those airline tickets and hotel bills (minus when he stayed at friends and relatives) would add up to several thousands of dollars. Wouldn't it have been prudent to have saved all that travel money? I know he will probably say that none of the GoFundMe.com money was spent on his travel, but really, it all comes out of an accumulated pile of dough. So, in effect he is spending the GoFundMe.com money on his world travels and vacations.


I agree. Raffaele Sollecito is very bold to ask for donations. While he is happy to accept other people's hard earned money, he travels the world, paying for flights that many of those who have donated might not be able to afford themselves.

Further, he is not collecting money to cover basic needs, it is to pay a star team of lawyers and forensic experts, not available to ordinary mortals.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Raffe breaks the $25,000 barrier!   

Nell wrote:
sherrel wrote:
sherrel wrote:
Slade wrote:
Breaking News: Raffaele Sollecito has finally broken through the $25,000 barrier on his GoFundMe.com 'begging friends for funding' site. Yippee!!! What will he do with all that moolah?
c-))

Well, I think he's been spending it on travel. He's been to Seattle, been to New York, been to San Francisco, been to the Dominican Republic, and now back to Italy . . . That's a lot of airplane tickets, as I'm sure these were round trips back to where he was staying in-between. Interesting itineraries for somebody who has to beg for money.

Michael wrote:
And to the UK, more then once, don't forget.

I forgot about that. I would think all those airline tickets and hotel bills (minus when he stayed at friends and relatives) would add up to several thousands of dollars. Wouldn't it have been prudent to have saved all that travel money? I know he will probably say that none of the GoFundMe.com money was spent on his travel, but really, it all comes out of an accumulated pile of dough. So, in effect he is spending the GoFundMe.com money on his world travels and vacations.


I agree. Raffaele Sollecito is very bold to ask for donations. While he is happy to accept other people's hard earned money, he travels the world, paying for flights that many of those who have donated might not be able to afford themselves.

Further, he is not collecting money to cover basic needs, it is to pay a star team of lawyers and forensic experts, not available to ordinary mortals.

I've seriously thought of donating $0.01 to his fund just so that I could leave a comment on his site. I'm reluctant for fear of being harassed both on-line and off-line by his crazy supporters.

I guess that makes me a chicken, because I'd rather avoid the headaches.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Don't have time to keep up with the twitters but here is the first of the day :)

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 5m
Raffaele Sollecito has arrived in Florence court, with father. He said hello to friends on his way in. Hearing start delayed to 10.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So he after an extended, extended, extended holiday, is now to put on one of his faces, and criticise things, as much as he can, oh how they've hounded me, the media this that and the other, but the man took on Knox's strategy and has been getting paid for endless interviews and appearances, he wrote a book, has not even finished the process, I mean really, does this guy not see he is a raving hypocrite, he uses the media then wants to complain about it.
He has said the same type of nonsense as Knox too, about the authorities just wanting to blame someone, not being able to back down, etc., all of which is of no value at all, since it is easy to see that such nonsense has nothing to do with the matter whatsoever. That would be very easy wouldn't it if every person that got arrested just blamed it on the judge, the prosecutor the police, but in this Knox and Sollecito do not blame just one, they blame all of the aforementioned.

Many things he wants to say, well let's hope one is to repeat his accusations, blaming Mignini and accusing him of crimes, when sonny boy: it is you who are on trial and with many reasons why.

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 17m
Meredith process, waiting for the arrival of Sollecito Image

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 11m
Meredith process, lawyer Maresca (Kercher family): the expert (report) confirms that the knife was in the hands of Amanda

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 10m
Meredith process, the lawyer Maresca (Kercher family): Sollecito in the courtroom? I don't care

La Nazione @ qn_lanazione 3m
Process Meredith, Raffaele Sollecito already in the courtroom

Image
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:

Image




Thanks Guermantes


Caption: Sollecito checking his GoFundMe account in the courtroom.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 1m
Meredith process, the lawyer Luca Maori (Sollecito): opinions by experts confirm that there are no traces of the victim on the knife
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 9h
9h to the next court hearing in the Kercher murder case. Possibly the last hearing before the closing arguments. Stay tuned

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 24m
Raffaele Sollecito is in courtroom. Walking in empty room, few people waiting. Hearing will start 1/2h probably

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 21m
I wonder... will the court withdraw his passport?

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 23s
Giulia Bongiorno & Raff kiss each other. Giulia, Raff & Father have a worried discussion

------------------------------------------
Didn't astrologists predict some sort of "courtroom bombshell" around November 4, IIRC? I wonder what will happen next....
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks for the updates! I am going to be slow on my tablet. Could you keep posting them?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

kathleen gadalof ‏@kathleengadalof 9m
Sollecito is in court greeting friends in the gallery

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 1m
Meredith process, Raffaele Sollecito in courtroom

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La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 2m
Meredith process, Raffaele Sollecito in court with lawyer Giulia Bongiorno

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Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Sollecito had managed to enter the courtroom from side entrance eluding photographers. Carlo Torre arrives in court.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Thanks for the updates! I am going to be slow on my tablet. Could you keep posting them?


No worries, Nell. I'll be here, posting new updates.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 3m
Meredith process, Francesco Sollecito, father of Raffaele

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La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 2m
Meredith process, PM Alessandro Crini

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La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 2m
Meredith process, lawyer Francesco Maresca (Kercher family)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 7m
Déjà vu with #sollecito in court

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Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Court in session in new appeal trial for #sollecito and #knox for murder of #meredithkercher in Florence

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Judge says he wants to hear from RIS experts first and then #sollecito can give his declaration #amandaknox #meredithkercher
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 4m
Meredith process, the lawyer Bongiorno announces that Sollecito will make spontaneous statements

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 3m
Meredith process, begins the examination of expert witnesses that relate to the track found on the knife

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 22s
Process Meredith, speaks RIS expert from Rome

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Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 36s
RIS expert: explains technical details of testing DNA, how much is needed, how it is tested

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 39s
RIS: essential in DNA testing to double test samples to validate results
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
RIS: DNA analysis showed no x chromosome, i.e.: no male chromosome in sample they tested on knife

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 23s
RIS: Experts tested spot "H" on the knife (the spot near the handle) for both the victim #meredithkercher and suspect #amandaknox

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau now
RIS: the spot they tested on the knife did not match #meredithkercher or #rudyguede or #sollecito after double testing
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 9m
Dr. Berti summarizes the recovery of sample in Vecchiotti's lab

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 7m
Points out that documentation says sample 36i comes from insertion of blade in the handle.

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 5m
Dr Berti says the sample was a low template. They have a strategy to obtain reliable results

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 4m
They extracted two profiles in a duplicate in agreement with experts of all parties

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 4m
Absence of any male trace stands out as a feature of the sample (all contributors are females)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Nell wrote:
Thanks for the updates! I am going to be slow on my tablet. Could you keep posting them?


No worries, Nell. I'll be here, posting new updates.


Thank you Guermantes!

hugz-)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 23s
They describe the methods employed, the 'biologic' method and the 'statistic' method

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
The biologic method has a 'consensus' interpretation and a 'composite' interpretation, two ways to interpret the double result

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
RIS: the spot they tested on the knife (near handle) matched definitively the DNA of #amandaknox in double tests

kathleen gadalof ‏@kathleengadalof 2m
Trace 36-I is definitely profile of Amanda Knox

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 6s
They note that three alleles which were 'alien' were dropp[ed] off in one duplicate

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 50s
#sollecito listening attentively and jotting notes as RIS expert testifies about the knife

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 9s
RIS: testifying about international standards necessary to validate DNA, how they used in their examination of this particular spot on knife
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1m
Speaking about their software which allows to weight probabilities of attribution.

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
RIS: DNA testing as important to exclude suspects as to confirm them, in this case no question that #amandaknox DNA is on knife, others' not
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 19s
Prosecutor Crini asks if there are criteria to distinguish which labs or which experts are more competent.

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Prosecutor asking for clarification on how samples are tested, how RIS experts are qualified, etc.

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 4m
Prosecutor Crini asks about the accreditation criteria of the structure of Ris

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 1m
Lawyer Bongiorno (Sollecito defense) makes technical questions to Ris of Rome, on their working method
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 5m
Bongiorno asks RIS expert specifics of amplification of sample with an eye to trace with #meredithkercher DNA that was amplified many times

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 4m
Jury in new appeal trial for #amandaknox #sollecito look totally lost, lots of daydreaming during DNA testimony, nail biting, looking around

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Bongiorno hammers point that international standards in DNA must be followed (they were not for #meredithkercher sample on tip of knife)

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 31s
DallaVedova asks about international protocol, backfires slightly b/c RIS expert says he doesn't want to dis italian methods, are valid too
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

RS attorney doing all the talking? What about AK's attorney?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 47s
dallavedova manages to get RIS expert to defend Italian methods, says they are in line with global standards, this was crux of 1st appeal

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau now
Dallavedova essentially kicks goal into own net, not doing #amandaknox any favors by making RIS defend methods used in original conviction

:) cl-)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Emerald wrote:
RS attorney doing all the talking? What about AK's attorney?


Dalla Vedova is Knox's attorney.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 3m
Judge clarifies that RIS was not asked to reanalyze work that has been done, but to test a sample that has not been tested.

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Judge tells Dallavedova he cannot put words in mouth of new expert that were said by previous experts, this is fresh analysis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Judge tells Dallavedova he cannot put words in mouth of new expert that were said by previous experts, this is fresh analysis #amandaknox'


_____________________

Good work judge

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 7s
Judge asks what minimum testing is for validation of DNA, RIS says "at least two"

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 4s
Judge asks about relevance of kit they used, how old technology was, etc. #amandaknox #meredithkercher Judge releases RIS expert
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Judge asks for Sollecito declaration now #amandaknox

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione now
:!: Processo Meredith, parla Raffaele Sollecito #meredithnazione :!:

Trans: Raffaele Sollecito speaks

Oh God, he's getting sentimental:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
#sollecito thanks and defends his family, calls #amandknox his first love
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 2m
#RaffaeleSollecito takes stand to make statement #amandaknox #meredithkercher starts complaining about media descriptions of himself


Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 3m
#amandaknox trial #sollecito is addressing court now


Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 2m
#amandaknox #sollecito talks about his family and says he is an honest person


Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 1m
#amandaknox #sollecito says he is not the assassin he has been described as. Says amanda was his first love

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 1m
#RaffaeleSollecito - #AmandaKnox and I were very carefree and isolated in our love nest.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Guermantes. I'm reading all the reports and commentary and it seems the defense is all leaning towards the innocence of RS. Not so much for AK.

It'll be interesting RS' statement. I do not believe he will be so swayed by AK since she is not there to stare at him.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

As an aside, I am greatly against the use of so-called independent experts like Torres, hired in by defence, I think the system is no good, because such a person is NEVER going to offer an impartial take/view/testimony, since they are getting paid by the defendant to get them off, that is exactly the reason why Torres comes up with the most extremely outlandish theories possible, that a 5-year old could hear and then day, es but that is ridiculous sir because.....

I really dislike hat man and his university companion. Since people such as this are paid to come up with something I'm certain they really do not believe the stuff they try to get others to accept and believe.

Experts appointed by government cannot be compared since they just get paid a salary and there is no commissions and bonuses, and or backhanders, just to say a thing.

I say only state experts should be used or at least evidence should be tested by a body or bodies that do not have huge fees as a cArrot on a stick making them unreliable, like Torres is, like Knox and Sollecito's experts ARE.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 7s
Judge asks what minimum testing is for validation of DNA, RIS says "at least two"

That could be a problem for trace 36B.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 1m
#RaffaeleSollecito -- close to tears as he testifies to court "I am fighting every day to bring out the truth"

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 54s
#RaffaeleSollecito - I feel a persecution. It is a nightmare, beyond all imagination. #amandaknox #meredithkercher
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 1m
#amandaknox #sollecito says he has never enjoyed going to parties and never liked alcohol althoug admits to smoking a joint or two


Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 1m
#RaffaeleSollecito - even though I smoked a joint a few times, it didn't change me #Amandaknox #MeredithKercher


Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 1m
#amandaknox #sollecito says accusations against him are absurd, talks about terrible experience in prison


Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Jury totally transfixed by #sollecito declaration, can't take their eyes off him #amandaknox #meredithkercher


Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 1m
#amandaknox #sollecito says he was wrongly arrested for a footprint which was not even his

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 1m
#RaffaeleSollecito -- close to tears as he testifies to court "I am fighting every day to bring out the truth" #amandaknox #meredithkercher

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 1m
#RaffaeleSollecito - I feel a persecution. It is a nightmare, beyond all imagination. #amandaknox #meredithkercher


Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 59s
#amandaknox #sollecito says he never met rudy guede, this is the reality.


Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 21s
#amandaknox #sollecito says other witnesses were not credible and brought to build nonexistant reality

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 56s
#amandaknox #sollecito is very credible and judges listening carefully

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 1m
#amandaknox #sollecito says he never met rudy guede, this is the reality

Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 1m
#amandaknox #sollecito says other witnesses were not credible and brought to build nonexistant reality

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma now
#RaffaeleSollectio - I even had to defend my decision to go visit a friend in the Domincan Republic #AmandaKnox #MeredithKerche
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 33s
#sollecito repeats twice that he never met Rudy Guede, how nothing in original trial was based on reality, #amandaknox

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 3m
Jury totally transfixed by #sollecito declaration, can't take their eyes off him #amandaknox #meredithkercher
_______________

I'm afraid I find Barbie inarticulate at times, what she actually means is they are staring, probing him, trying to make out what he is, they are not transfixed, as in taken in, of course they must scrutinize him and scrutinize is the wording she needed.

It is greatly misleading to use words that make people imagine they are being taken in by him.

Of course they have to look at him, it is about HIM.
Are they, as she described, supposed to daydream?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 50s
#RaffaeleSollectio - I even had to defend my decision to go visit a friend in the Domincan Republic #AmandaKnox #MeredithKercher

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Weak as usual from Sollecito, not even weak, it's less than that it is simply pathetic, barking and harking on, flogging his dead horse, he learned nothing and has nothing, not a leg to stand on.

He'll be out of there today, out of Italy.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 1m
#amandaknox #sollecito says his life constantly being scrutinized

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
#sollecito says that even on his vacation in Dominican Republic, he had to defend himself like a public figure, his life is judged by all

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
#sollecito says he hates the fame, how it has hurt him, how it isn't fair
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
#sollecito says he hates the fame, how it has hurt him, how it isn't fair #pityparty #amandaknox #meredithkercher


Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 1m
#amandaknox #sollecito says I am here to help you judges understand who I am. Impact on me psychologically has been dramatic


Sabina Castelfranco ‏@SCastelfranco 1m
#amandaknox #sollecito asks judges to understand what a big mistake has been made and asks to be able to given his life back

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
#sollecito says that even on his vacation in Dominican Republic, he had to defend himself like a public figure, his life is judged by all

_______________________

Yes vacation, what is he talking about, what was the stuff in the desert at Burnin Man, wasn't that vacation then or was that business, was visiting London business, was, basically, if you are involved in murder, in a murder trial, of course people are not going to be carrying you on their shoulders, or yes, criminals will do, but come on you f idiot and cut the crap, his whining poor me is excruciatingly unbearable to hear again and again and again.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Sollecito finishes by thanking judges for their time, judge tells him he can intervene any time during rest of appeal until they deliberate
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 3m
#sollecito says he hates the fame, how it has hurt him, how it isn't fair #pityparty #amandaknox #meredithkercher

_______

Whatever is he thinking, fame is something else, as in positive, notoriety might be nearer, he is a twit, fame, he has been glossed up and appearing on endless TV shows, whereas Meredith's family have hardly been seen, I hope this hole is going to swallow him up whole.

Cretino

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Visiting a friend in Dominican Republic? What 'friend' was he visiting at the grave of the victim MEREDITH KERCHER?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

kathleen gadalof ‏@kathleengadalof 4m
Raffaelle Sollecito in court with Giulia Bongiorno. Florence. November 6, 2013

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 7s
Judge asks what minimum testing is for validation of DNA, RIS says "at least two"

That could be a problem for trace 36B.


Maybe, but from what was posted on TJMk, the trace "I" was far small quantity than trace "B". Trace "B" is a clear match to Meredith Kercher and even Conti and Vecchiotti confirmed it was Meredith's DNA, they only disagreed how this small sample could have ended up on the knife.

Nadeau tweeted that protocols were not followed when analysing trace "B". I found that surprising, because the only one who has ever claimed that was discredited Carla Vecchiotti. Her involvement in this case is not her first scandal where she tried to mislead the jury.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 1m
Judge closes hearing for day, says closing arguments begin Nov 25, 26, must find December dates to conclude

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 39s
Dec. 16, 17 closing arguments for Knox and Sollecito

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m
#amandaknox court sched: Nov 25 prosecution, Nov. 26 civil parties. Dec 16 Sollecito def, 17 Knox def. Jan. 9-10. Cross/Deliberations.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 9m
#RaffaeleSollecito - Everyone knows me in Italy, I can't even look for a job. They think I am an assassin.
________


Yes but if one is guilty of murder what else can one expect?
That's what happens and you can put on an act as many times as you like but I ain't buying it and neither is the court, what he is saying is total nonsense and has no linkage to reality he is like a parrot repeating the same thing.
The poor thing.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Yes vacation, what is he talking about, what was the stuff in the desert at Burnin Man, wasn't that vacation then or was that business, was visiting London business, was, basically, if you are involved in murder, in a murder trial, of course people are not going to be carrying you on their shoulders, or yes, criminals will do, but come on you f idiot and cut the crap, his whining poor me is excruciatingly unbearable to hear again and again and again.

Geeeez! I forgot about that one too (Burning Man). Sollecito's been all over the world on holiday with the hard earned money of other people. And he's complaining about not being able to get a job? How can he find time to job search with all the sight-seeing he's been doing?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 6m

Meredith process, the court shall transmit to the Attorney General of the Republic the statements of the witness Aviello
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 5m
#amandaknox court sched: Nov 25 prosecution, Nov. 26 civil parties Dec 16 Sollecito def, 17 Knox def. Jan. 9-10. Rebuttals/Deliberation.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox's ex speaks at retrial for murder of Meredith Kercher
By Erin McLaughlin and Barbie Latza Nadeau, CNN

Warning: don't watch the video if you don't want to see Steve Moore's "mug".

Amanda Knox's former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito took the stand in an Italian court Wednesday, defending himself during retrial in the 2007 killing of British exchange student Meredith Kercher.

"I would like to make you understand that these charges against me are absurd," he said. " There was not a basis to charge me, to put me in jail. I don't wish anybody on earth to go through what I went through. This was something that was so bad."


CNN
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
max wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 7s
Judge asks what minimum testing is for validation of DNA, RIS says "at least two"

That could be a problem for trace 36B.

Maybe, but from what was posted on TJMk, the trace "I" was far small quantity than trace "B". Trace "B" is a clear match to Meredith Kercher and even Conti and Vecchiotti confirmed it was Meredith's DNA, they only disagreed how this small sample could have ended up on the knife.

Nadeau tweeted that protocols were not followed when analysing trace "B". I found that surprising, because the only one who has ever claimed that was discredited Carla Vecchiotti. Her involvement in this case is not her first scandal where she tried to mislead the jury.

Yah true, but the judge asked that for a reason. I don't think it matters all that much for the big picture. Two more months waiting till the verdict :(
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Okay, the real big news....We won't be getting a verdict until January!!!

FFS!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito speaks to the trial judges: "Hallucinatory accusations against me, I am not a murderer"
By Roberto Davide Papini

LA NAZIONE (FIRENZE)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Nell wrote:
max wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 7s
Judge asks what minimum testing is for validation of DNA, RIS says "at least two"

That could be a problem for trace 36B.

Maybe, but from what was posted on TJMk, the trace "I" was far small quantity than trace "B". Trace "B" is a clear match to Meredith Kercher and even Conti and Vecchiotti confirmed it was Meredith's DNA, they only disagreed how this small sample could have ended up on the knife.

Nadeau tweeted that protocols were not followed when analysing trace "B". I found that surprising, because the only one who has ever claimed that was discredited Carla Vecchiotti. Her involvement in this case is not her first scandal where she tried to mislead the jury.

Yah true, but the judge asked that for a reason. I don't think it matters all that much for the big picture. Two more months waiting till the verdict :(


Nencini also said that experts only testify to trace "I". We won't be able to tell until we read their final sentencing report.

"Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 2m
Judge clarifies that RIS was not asked to reanalyze work that has been done, but to test a sample that has not been tested. #amandaknox"

Anyway, the bra clasp evidence stands and that is more than worrisome for Sollecito. They won't be able to talk that away in the closing arguments.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Some tweets that may not have been posted:


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 1h
Prosecutor Crini asks if there are criteria to distinguish whih labs or which experts are more competent.


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 21m
Bongiorno asks yo explain why two amplifications are recommended.


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 21m
The RIS obtained the iso9001 certificate in 2008, and a more specific certificate in 2012.


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 22m
Dalla Vedova tries to elicit that the good standards are not the Italians ones.


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 22m
Nencini stops Dalla Vedova, points out that scientific community is international


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 22m
The carabinieri say that there are only few governmental laboratories which have the 17025 certificate (the Carabinieri and the Police)


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
Sollecito talked with a faint voice, long speech in which described himself as a victim

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Sollecito speaks to the trial judges: "Hallucinatory accusations against me, I am not a murderer"
By Roberto Davide Papini

LA NAZIONE (FIRENZE)



Him saying things in this mode, only makes him look worse, because if he speaks of such serious matters that way, it shows he has no respect for the law, which the prosecutors represent, and I'm certain the judge's do not see prosecutors as professionals making hallucinatory accusations, no, hallucinations are what you get when you go to Burnin Man and drop some acid man, shut up already.

Okay, if it were to be determined through proper practice, which means the court procedures that the man is definitely; not guilty, he might have something to say, but as long as a case is ongoing, whining the way he does doesn't help him gain sympathy, for the fact is it is a murder case and he is there appealing a guilty ruling against himself.

Writing off professionals as being hallucinating, is so stupid, it is he who cannot see straight.

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Nazione photo gallery (31 photos)

Florence, Meredith process, pictures from the Palace of Justice

MULTIMEDIA QUOTIDIANO
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt has posted up part of the transcript from today: http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featu ... -appeal-2/

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

More:

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 22m
He mentioned Meredith's name only once, to say he barely knew her.


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 14m
The questions of all parties to the experts were intended to elicit information to be used in argueing the unrelated previous finding


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 12m
Sollecito mentioned the defensive arguments (he has an ortopedical issue with his foot etc.).


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 10m
He also played the 'national' card, as he remphasized 'I am Italian' twice and then addressed the court 'I am an Italian, as you are'


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 15s
Sollecito said his family absolutely never had issues with justice. And he is a proud 'member' of that family

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Verbatim quotes from Sollecito, as per La Nazione:

"Against me a shocking persecution."

"The witnesses against me and Amanda were all proven wrong."

"Continue to bring inconsistent evidence. Did not know Rudy Guede."

"I also had to defend the possibility of taking a vacation in Santo Domingo."

"Hallucinatory allegations against me."

"Amanda was my first love, all thought except to be so cruel as they accuse us."

"Sollecito: arrested for imprint of a shoe, then it turned out to be Rudy Guede's."

"Slammed in jail overnight without any concrete evidence."

"I want to be known for what I am, an honest person of a respectable family."

"Sollecito: I am not the person who is painted as ruthless." (Echo of Amanda's: "I'm not the person who the prosecution says I am.")

"I would like to take back my life, because now I do not have a real life."

https://twitter.com/qn_lanazione
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here is a video of RS speaking in court (which I'm not able to watch on my computer for some reason):
http://news.sky.com/story/1164497/knoxs ... at-retrial

**
Thanks for the updates, guermantes and Michael! :)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

"Amanda my first true love"
Sollecito in court for the appeal trial in the Meredith case: "I'm being persecuted"

VANITY FAIR PHOTO GALLERY
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito: 'Amanda was my first love'

Published: 06 Nov 2013 12:39 GMT+01:00
Updated: 06 Nov 2013 12:39 GMT+01:00



THE LOCAL

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

January is not long, I find the amount of time normal under the circumstances, it is November now already, are these lay judges in collaboration with the stipendiary judges supposed to come to their conclusions overnight, when there are still a few court dates ahead end of November, that leaves them a month to debate everything

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Here is a video of RS speaking in court (which I'm not able to watch on my computer for some reason):
http://news.sky.com/story/1164497/knoxs ... at-retrial


Thanks Ava. What an arrogant a$$hole, whining before the court.

Another short video:

Sollecito, leaving the Florence courthouse with aunt Sara and his entourage. I can't even stand to look at their faces any more.

Florence, Meredith process, Sollecito does not speak with reporters after the spontaneous statements (VIDEO)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A. Vogt

At one point the judge stopped a line of questioning by Knox’s Rome attorney Carlo Dalla Vedova, who was asking why the RIS described Knox’s DNA as “fluids” when a prior expert had said the trace did not come from blood. Nencini said: That question was not put to the RIS by this court, it was not their job to determine that. The other experts’ reports are in the case files for everyone to read, he noted, adding: “We cannot put words in the mouth of this expert that were said by another expert.”


So Knox's trace is blood.

Or did she sweat or spit on said knife?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Part of Sollecito's statement (video)

Sollecito in the courtroom : "Thrown into prison on charges proven wrong"

RAI NEWS24
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Sollecito: 'Amanda was my first love'

Published: 06 Nov 2013 12:39 GMT+01:00
Updated: 06 Nov 2013 12:39 GMT+01:00



THE LOCAL




Give us a break, love??? He knew her a week and they'd jumped into bed after getting to know one another's personalities real well, yes, on the same day they met, that's courting for ya and flowers and romance, ah don't ya just love his she was my first one night stand, well, rather, she was a one week stand and so was he. He is up the wall, love.

I would like to ask, did he take out a pocket book of poems, and start reciting Shakespeare?

I bet you there were a few old ladies dressed in black crying right there, oh the poverino, love, his love, his first love, well if that's love let's hope it is his first and last.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm hearing that Frank Sforza's hearing has been canceled and adjourned.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

More Tweets:

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 36m
Dalla Vedova said Tagliabracci was the only Italian source in RIS report, all others are foreigners, emphasized the American labs...


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 34m
Nencini asked Barni "would you be able to provide reliable standards without using suggestions from Americans?" Barni: "of course"


Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 2m
@JudithMcCarth18 @Kermittweets Nencini's comments were always addressed at Dalla Vedova's arguments, he was in fact a bit silly

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Meredith murder, Raffaele Sollecito in tears before the judges (VIDEO)

RAI NEWS24

The declarations of Sollecito in court: "My life no longer exists" ("I no longer have a life") (VIDEO)

RAI NEWS24
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Kington is one lousy journalist, his dad had a name, but Tom just tried to step into dad's shoes but never has anything to say and apart from that gets stuff wrong, now he is saying that in court it was decided that there is no trace of Meredith on the knife, but that is not right, the judge has said that what was decided in previous hearings is in the file, meaning too that everything Hellmann rules is invalid, obiously, so whatever he made of the findings on the knife as in ruling on what the experts V&C said, is invalid, so the new court has to rule on the lot, which means Meredith's trace is still valid.

If anyone feels like talking to Kington his email is:

http://www.defensenews.com/editorial
Italy
Tom Kington
E-MAIL: tkington@defensenews.com
PHONE: 39 339 243 1819

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Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
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Last edited by zorba on Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ava wrote:
Here is a video of RS speaking in court (which I'm not able to watch on my computer for some reason):
http://news.sky.com/story/1164497/knoxs ... at-retrial

**
Thanks for the updates, guermantes and Michael! :)


I just watched the video and even the microphone is so shocked by what it has to listen to, it falls off half-way through his speech.

I am not sure if it is a sign of sound mind to talk about your holiday in Santo Domingo as strong argument of innocence.

He complains he is being judged all the time and lives under a microscope. Hello? Who wrote a book and gave interviews in exchange for money? Whose daddy revealed he visited Meredith's grave?

If you don't want this kind of attention then he should stop giving interviews. Shut up already!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Guermantes and Michael for all the updates. I followed everything on Twitter and again, Knox supporters were very silent.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I'm hearing that Frank Sforza's hearing has been canceled and adjourned.


There was a tweet from Yummi regarding Sfarzo. Here is what he said:

"Machiavelli @Machiavelli-Aki

@Jhansigir1 @manfromatlan Maybe somewhere in basement. Today attorney Rocchi filed as civil plaintiff for Mignini, to seek damage comp"
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

New Amanda Knox trial: No DNA match to victim on knife, expert tells court
By Claudio Lavanga

Sollecito is not expected to be called as witness, but on Wednesday he made a tearful statement to the court describing Knox as his “first real love” and saying the succession of court trials and appeals had been a “nightmare beyond imagination.”

He said: "Thank you for listening to me. Unfortunately, my reputation precedes me. I am trying to show you who I really am. I am proud to having grown up in a decent family, a family that taught me good values of honesty and education. I am proud to have a family that never had problems with justice.

“I am now sitting here, after they described me as an assassin, I am not like this.”

He continued: "When I was in Perugia I studied hard, and I was close to graduating when [the murder] happened. Amanda was my first real love of my life, even if it came late in my life. I was 20 years old. I was shy. Me and Amanda only wanted to live our little fairy tale in private.”

“I was next to graduating...with that kind of life...it's unreasonable to think I would do something like that.”

Sollecito said he felt “persecuted” by the legal process, adding: “The evidence is clear, all those who accused me turned out to be untrustworthy, they made up a reality that never existed.”

“I humbly ask you to look at the truth...and consider the big mistake that was made...and give me my life back, because I don't have a life anymore."


NBC WORLD NEWS
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sfarzo's date today was before a preliminary hearing judge. Court might adjourn after statements filed. Preliminary investigations began some time ago.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Update at Nencini Appeal

November 06, 2013

Rome forensic experts hand in their report on trace 36-I, located in the join of the blade and knife, to complete testing that had not been done by Conti and Vecchiotti. Knox profile is the only DNA found in that location. Court will determine relative importance of all three reports: Stefanoni, Conti-Vecchiotti, Berti-Barni (Rome RIS)

Raffaele Sollecito gave a dramatic statement proclaiming his innocence.

Judge declared the evidence phase closed.

Next court dates are Nov. 25 for the prosecution arguments, Nov. 26 for the civil parties: Kercher family and Patrick Lumumba, Dec. 16 for the Sollecito defense, Dec. 17 for Knox. Rebuttals and deliberations will be held January 9-10, 2014, and a decision expected shortly after.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Based on Sollecito's logic,

if you should ever happen upon a murder,
please just leave it as it is,

and if you are the police,
you too should just leave it all as it is,

since if anyone is hauled in,
because there are reasons to do so,
said individual will not be able to find a job,

like Sollecito,

who sought work from Switzerland,
to London,
to New York,
to the Nevada desert
(I think that's where Burnin Man takes place isn't it?)

and to the poverty stricken island of the Dominican Republic,

so he has tried hasn't he on his year-long vacation,
as he likes to call all of that,
if his pal Sfarzo hadn't bashed people up,
well he'd even have looked for work on Hawaii.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Patricia Thomas ‏@MozzarellaMamma 50s
#RaffaeleSollectio - I even had to defend my decision to go visit a friend in the Domincan Republic #AmandaKnox #MeredithKercher


It would have been easy to show the friend, or the friend speaking... instead of having a fit over the internet about the money you were begging for.

stup-)
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Karma, spiritual energy, or simply ironic. I had the thought this morning, of Raffaele visiting Meredith's grave, knowing full well how the Kerchers felt about it. And I thought about the death of Sollecito's mother. In his grief and anger, he forbid family members from attending her services. Were his wishes respected? Can he understand how the Kerchers feel? Of course he can, he's been there himself.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Karma, spiritual energy, or simply ironic. I had the thought this morning, of Raffaele visiting Meredith's grave, knowing full well how the Kerchers felt about it. And I thought about the death of Sollecito's mother. In his grief and anger, he forbid family members from attending her services. Were his wishes respected? Can he understand how the Kerchers feel? Of course he can, he's been there himself.



if he knew her so little why would he feel the need to visit a cemetery, oh and pray, yes always praying, he's praying, Knox praying, they are such wonderful people aren't they, after all, look at them praying and visiting graves. See how kind and considerate they are.

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Offline Emerald


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

IMO, the only reason RS visited victim Meredith Kercher's grave was for $$$. It was to sell photos to the gossip media. If it was for any other reason, we would have never known about it.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Phoebe Natanson seems to be one of the better American journalists reporting on the Meredith trial. She's almost always been fairly balanced and factual iirc, even though it's abc.

Amanda Knox's Co-Defendant Calls Her 'First True Love'
FLORENCE, Italy Nov. 6, 2013
By PHOEBE NATANSON and MARK MOONEY via Good Morning America
http://abcnews.go.com/International/ama ... d=20802169

"A lawyer for Knox called today's forensic testimony a "victory," but the prosecution said it would comment on the forensics during its summation."
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Verbatim quotes from Sollecito, as per La Nazione:

"Against me a shocking persecution."

"The witnesses against me and Amanda were all proven wrong."

"Continue to bring inconsistent evidence. Did not know Rudy Guede."

"I also had to defend the possibility of taking a vacation in Santo Domingo."

"Hallucinatory allegations against me."

"Amanda was my first love, all thought except to be so cruel as they accuse us."

"Reminder: arrested for imprint of a shoe, then it turned out to be Rudy Guede's."

"Slammed in jail overnight without any concrete evidence."

"I want to be known for what I am, an honest person of a respectable family."

"Reminder: I am not the person who is painted as ruthless." (Echo of Amanda's: "I'm not the person who the prosecution says I am.")

"I would like to take back my life, because now I do not have a real life."

https://twitter.com/qn_lanazione




Interesting adjectives chosen by Sollecito to describe what HE feels others think of him or his actions. These words precisely describe the crime.

Shocking
Hallucinatory
Cruel
Ruthless
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

One thing to clarify about the forensic report filed by Rome RIS and Judge Nencini's interjections. He wouldn't allow Carla Della Vadova to question them about Stefanoni's findings, he asked if they could form an opinion 'without reference to American standards' (Barni said yes, yoo hoo Hampikian!) and the date of the equipment in their labs (2010, same technology AFAIK C&V, but newer than Stefanoni's)

So, trace 36-B of Meredith's DNA is rock solid, regardless what the defense says in their summation. The court will already be studying the new report, AND the case files plus Massei Report. Coool!
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

sherrel wrote:
zorba wrote:
Yes vacation, what is he talking about, what was the stuff in the desert at Burnin Man, wasn't that vacation then or was that business, was visiting London business, was, basically, if you are involved in murder, in a murder trial, of course people are not going to be carrying you on their shoulders, or yes, criminals will do, but come on you f idiot and cut the crap, his whining poor me is excruciatingly unbearable to hear again and again and again.

Geeeez! I forgot about that one too (Burning Man). Sollecito's been all over the world on holiday with the hard earned money of other people. And he's complaining about not being able to get a job? How can he find time to job search with all the sight-seeing he's been doing?


Raffe doesn't need to ever have a job really. I read, from a reliable source that Raffe, and his sister Vanessa, both receive and split the rental income from properties inherited from their mother. Papa Doc probably insists his offspring pursue careers and not be one of the 'idle rich' for their own sakes -- sounds like Papa Doc, doesn't it? That makes it even more disgusting that RS would publicly beg.

You must have seen on GoFundMe.com that you can donate a small amount, like $5, (not sure of the minimum), but can only leave a remark for RS if you include a name. Aren't allowed to post a comment if you donate 'Anonymously.' Too bad, many of us have lots of things to say to RS. :shock:
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

QUESTION FOR MODS:

McCall contributed an excellent post on .org re: the DNA analysis kit used by C&V -- if the same kit used by RIS was available in 2011 for C&V to use for testing knife trace 36-I.

Would it be OK for me to copy & paste McCall's post here attributing it to him, or is that a no-no? The point made is important and I believe it should be seen here too.


Last edited by Slade on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Nightmare End to Amanda Knox’s Fairy Tale

by Barbie Latza Nadeau Nov 6, 2013 11:32 AM EST



THE DAILY BEAST

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi Slade, by all means copy and paste over, with a link to the original and crediting it to McCall @.ORG. We've done that with lots of cross posting from ORG and NET before :)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Cast Info on The Face Of An Angel, by Michael Winterbottom. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2967008/ful ... cl_sm#cast

My guess is Carla Delavigne to play the Knox part, Rosie Fellner is the (victim's) sister, Kate Beckinsale the documentary maker, (one of the leads) and no word on the other main character, the reporter, which I think is a male part.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Google-translated excerpt from the La Nazione article by Roberto Davide Papini (I hope Tiziano will translate it in full when she finds the time):

13:00: Bongiorno, "SOLLECITO IS AUTENTIC" - "That is the real Raffaele, his voice breaking, that we have seen today and 'the autentic Raffaele', more than 'affected Raffaele'. Affected are the actors, he is 'authentic'. Said the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno, one of the defense lawyers of Raffaele Sollecito, commenting on the spontaneous statements made ​​today by her client. The lawyer Bongiorno has not ruled out that Raffaele will participate in other hearings and said she will ask him 'to be present at the one dedicated to the indictment of the Assistant Attorney General Alessandro Crini'. Commenting on the survey on the trace of DNA found on the knife, the lawyer Bongiorno spoke of outcome "of extraordinary importance: on the knife there is no DNA of Rudy or Meredith, but only that of Amanda, who used the knife normally, it being a kitchen tool seized at the home of what was then her boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito. The Kercher family lawyer, the lawyer Francesco Maresca, referring to the words of Sollecito said: "We are used to his statements, we take note. We will make an assessment of the discussions."


LA NAZIONE
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:

I just watched the video and even the microphone is so shocked by what it has to listen to, it falls off half-way through his speech.



Love it ! hugz-)
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Post copied from PMF.org, contributor is McCall, on page 97 of this discussion:
Re: XXXIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPTEMBER 30, 2013 -

McCall is answering a question re: if knife trace 36-b of Meredith's DNA was split and tested twice since the RIS told the judges that two test were required for DNA validation of a sample.

McCall wrote:
For 36b the sample was not divided. The RIS is correct that having only run one undivided sample is less reliable but not in a meaningful way for 36b. The reason you divide the sample and do it twice is to ensure against stutters being interpreted as genuine alleles. If a peak is present on one but not the second then you shouldn't consider it in your analysis. This becomes significant when dealing with mixed samples and when dealing with partial profiles where you only have a few loci. It does not apply to the 36b where there is only Kercher's DNA and where you have a complete profile.

The question that was asked was about protocol and reliability and protocols are designed for the general case. In all situations having duplication is desirable but the level of relevance changes depending on the sample being tested. For 36b it is of no significant relevance. Under Italian law duplication is not required for admission under the test for reliability.


Within same post, McCall points out that Judge Nencini asks if C&V had access to same DNA analysis kit in 2011 used by RIS for their 2013 analysis:

McCall wrote:
I haven't seen it discussed yet but there is an important question that Nencini's asked. The RIS experts were hardly questioned but Nencini still took the time to ask about when the kit that was used for the current analysis of 36i was available. The reason Nencini asked that question was to determine if C&V's claims that 36i could not be processed were legitimate. If the RIS had used a kit that was not available to C&V then that they were able to get a profile would be considerably less significant. Since the RIS answered that the kit was available in 2011 that establishes that 36i could have been processed during Hellmann despite C&V's claims to the contrary. In fact given that it appears 36i was not properly stored and likely degraded processing it in 2011 would have been simpler.

Beyond being another blow to C&V's already decimated reputation 36i is significant because Hellmann's decision to not allow 36i to be processed in 2011 is clearly motivated by a desire to force an acquittal. This was an expensive and lengthy trial. The additional cost and time required to have 36i processed would not have made any difference. If C&V were correct that the sample could not be amplified to get a profile then the court would have wasted a few hours of the laboratory's time. If on the other hand 36i could be processed and Meredith's profile was found it would strength the finding of 36b such that Hellmann would not have been able to force though the acquittal. 36i was never going to be considered exculpatory evidence unless the result was a match to a tech in Stefanoni's laboratory but it could be very damaging evidence. Hellmann understood this which is why he refused to allow the testing in 2011.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Cast Info on The Face Of An Angel, by Michael Winterbottom. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2967008/ful ... cl_sm#cast

My guess is Carla Delavigne to play the Knox part, Rosie Fellner is the (victim's) sister, Kate Beckinsale the documentary maker, (one of the leads) and no word on the other main character, the reporter, which I think is a male part.


I think it's the other way around, Ms Beckinsale will play the reporter (= Barbie) and Daniel Brühl the documentary filmmaker.
http://velvetcinema.it/2013/11/06/the-f ... e-a-siena/
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Cast Info on The Face Of An Angel, by Michael Winterbottom. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2967008/ful ... cl_sm#cast

My guess is Carla Delavigne to play the Knox part, Rosie Fellner is the (victim's) sister, Kate Beckinsale the documentary maker, (one of the leads) and no word on the other main character, the reporter, which I think is a male part.



Cara Delevigne is to play the sister, it was reported in the British press.

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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Cast Info on The Face Of An Angel, by Michael Winterbottom. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2967008/ful ... cl_sm#cast

My guess is Carla Delavigne to play the Knox part, Rosie Fellner is the (victim's) sister, Kate Beckinsale the documentary maker, (one of the leads) and no word on the other main character, the reporter, which I think is a male part.



Cara Delevigne is to play the sister, it was reported in the British press.



There are lots of conflicting reports on Cara's role. I am wondering if they wanted her to play Amanda but since she is really just getting into acting from her super modeling career there is a Plan B, that is in the event it proves to difficult for Cara she just plays the sister.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Slade wrote:
sherrel wrote:
zorba wrote:
Yes vacation, what is he talking about, what was the stuff in the desert at Burnin Man, wasn't that vacation then or was that business, was visiting London business, was, basically, if you are involved in murder, in a murder trial, of course people are not going to be carrying you on their shoulders, or yes, criminals will do, but come on you f idiot and cut the crap, his whining poor me is excruciatingly unbearable to hear again and again and again.

Geeeez! I forgot about that one too (Burning Man). Sollecito's been all over the world on holiday with the hard earned money of other people. And he's complaining about not being able to get a job? How can he find time to job search with all the sight-seeing he's been doing?


Raffe doesn't need to ever have a job really. I read, from a reliable source that Raffe, and his sister Vanessa, both receive and split the rental income from properties inherited from their mother. Papa Doc probably insists his offspring pursue careers and not be one of the 'idle rich' for their own sakes -- sounds like Papa Doc, doesn't it? That makes it even more disgusting that RS would publicly beg.

You must have seen on GoFundMe.com that you can donate a small amount, like $5, (not sure of the minimum), but can only leave a remark for RS if you include a name. Aren't allowed to post a comment if you donate 'Anonymously.' Too bad, many of us have lots of things to say to RS. :shock:


Good point about receiving money from properties, I forgot about that.

I had a friend just like Sollecito inasmuch as he could say things that left me astounded. His parents died, yes sadly within about 6 months of one another, what he said shocked me, he was kind of complaining when he revealed that he and his brother and sister had all only gotten a house each out of it. The guy was so spoilt and used to having the huge family home like some kind of family estate that he did not even realise how awful it sounded when he said such a thing

He'd always had all the space anyone needed, as the family house was very big with a big back garden what was basically a field with vegetable garden in it and stables down the end.

He turned what was an old shed into his home, did great work but then he'd always enjoyed all of that space to experiment in, with fixing stuff, etc., he had space to store stuff in his own little private world , yet this own world was not independent, it was courtesy of the parents.

He had room to learn, to have parties in the garden in complete privacy, room to set up what was one of those huge circus tents if he so pleased, I mean this was not ordinary people stuff, he had nature all around.

For instance, he worked hard when he returned there after having left the family home for a few years, it was as though he ran back there, giving up the struggle that most have to deal with, worked growing vegetables, doing odd jobs which he was good at (but did it without paying tax).
That lifestyle, the living off the vegetables, I mean perhaps any other person would have been able to do it too, would have loved to have been able to, if only they'd had well-off parents who could give them all of that space, rent-free accommodation and more.
He was so entitled that way, he just didn't get it, didn't get how he sounded when complaining, when sounding so smug boasting about all of the great stuff he'd done as though he himself had really done it, despite his great work without the parents he had nothing. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth, it's that which astounded me, he had a financial safety net from the parents, while having mom and dad within a 1 minute walk.

Whenever he needed money he'd talk to mom, then mom would talk to dad, then he'd get the, what was, sometimes, several thousands he needed, mostly not have to pay it back. His father was the director of one of the world's biggest firms.

The ease with which he could live meant he never really became independent, it was far easier to live off mom and dad and I personally could not respect him for that, not properly, because I noticed he and others like him were all nice to a point but would drop you like a stone when you might ever really need them, and at such points, I saw that it was really clear the way they did things, at first appearing generous yet they never really gave anything that would make them have anything less, they never sacrified anything, never felt a thing, at that point they'd just abandon you to make sure that they themselves would be okay. Having experience in life with different types of people, knowing when someone did something to help out, and it cost them something, no matter how small, meant so much more than what he did, because to me he was unreal.

So parents die, he gets enough money to buy a whole house cash, and have enough to fix it up too, then complains.

By the time he came out with this one, I'd not had a lot of contact with him, for years, so I wasn't shocked as much as I had been years before when his ways really got on my nerves, only this statement confirmed all of the suspicions I'd had about him and how screwed up he was, his arrogancy.

What he said was just typical of how he saw things, how he experienced things, he'd never known any other way.

There's me travelling the world and when I met this guy he'd say stuff like yes, well I grew up with the kids of barons, I had play-friends who were princesses, he really had a high opinion of himself but not in the healthy way, like self-esteem, this was entitled, haughty, above the rest and that bit made it impossible to trust or respect the guy. It weas as though the rest were peasants.
Later he had this girlfriend, he had kids with her, then he started an affair with the woman's own daughter, it wasn't his daughter, so he went from being stepdad to bed partner, I mean is this aristocratic behaviour?

This particular person wasn't a murderer, elements of his selfishness, or better word, self-centred positioning, does and always has reminded me of Sollecito.

Sollecito's I am better than thou attitude is identical to this guy's behaviour.

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Another excerpt from Sollecito's statement to the court (from a transcript prepared by Roberto Davide Papini):

11:41: SOLLECITO: "I CANNOT FIND WORK BECAUSE OF THIS ABSURD STORY" - Sollecito continues to speak: "Even today, six years later I still have to listen to this kind of things that are out of touch. I have great respect for the role of judges but, as they are human, they can also make mistakes. It hurts when I read in the judgment of the Supreme Court that there are various points taken into consideration by the same court to which it gives importance but they have none. Aviello, the wintess, who [you] had the sense to listen to so much, is at the pinnacle of embarrassment. And then the DNA on the bra clasp. Besides other items to prop up this absurd sandcastle of evidence {against me.]. And then the bare foot print. I have a defect in my foot that removes all doubt about the fact that the footprint is not mine. I do not know Rudy Guede, I knew Meredith very little, it makes no sense that I would have had an interest in doing something so heinous to a twenty year old. This thing has been going on for too many years, my life has changed completely. I was offered the chance to go on vacation in the Dominican Republic by a dear friend. Even there I had to defend myself. Had I been anyone, nobody would have brought attention to this, but in my position I get all kinds of comments and I have to protect myself from them and justify what I do. Even things as simple and trivial as to be out of the spotlight, here in Italy are constantly in the spotlight. Looking for a job is difficult because every company interested in emplying me should publicly say that they are hiring Raffaele Sollecito, still under judgment, a likely murderer. Nobody wants publicity of this kind and it is understandable."


LA NAZIONE
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

indie wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Cast Info on The Face Of An Angel, by Michael Winterbottom. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2967008/ful ... cl_sm#cast

My guess is Carla Delavigne to play the Knox part, Rosie Fellner is the (victim's) sister, Kate Beckinsale the documentary maker, (one of the leads) and no word on the other main character, the reporter, which I think is a male part.



Cara Delevigne is to play the sister, it was reported in the British press.



There are lots of conflicting reports on Cara's role. I am wondering if they wanted her to play Amanda but since she is really just getting into acting from her super modeling career there is a Plan B, that is in the event it proves to difficult for Cara she just plays the sister.


Oh didn't know that.

My wish is that the film is abandoned, I always feel that at least let the case be dealt with. Still, people are going to do what they want to do.

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Offline jhansigirl


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I received this tweet this morning. It makes all worthwhile pp-( :

Image

picture of a pumpkin
This Post has been edited by a Moderator
Details: Adjusted image to fix forum width.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

indie wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Cast Info on The Face Of An Angel, by Michael Winterbottom. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2967008/ful ... cl_sm#cast

My guess is Carla Delavigne to play the Knox part, Rosie Fellner is the (victim's) sister, Kate Beckinsale the documentary maker, (one of the leads) and no word on the other main character, the reporter, which I think is a male part.



Cara Delevigne is to play the sister, it was reported in the British press.



There are lots of conflicting reports on Cara's role. I am wondering if they wanted her to play Amanda but since she is really just getting into acting from her super modeling career there is a Plan B, that is in the event it proves to difficult for Cara she just plays the sister.


In this article from today (reporting about the actual shooting, starting nov 11) it says she will play a character inspired by Amanda. That makes more sense to me than if she'd play the sister.
http://velvetcinema.it/2013/11/06/the-f ... e-a-siena/


Last edited by Ava on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I'm hearing that Frank Sforza's hearing has been canceled and adjourned.


I read his trial is delayed by some new evidence has come to light. I don't think the fat Lady has sung. I could be wrong...so much confusing info out there.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox's ex-lover pleads for acquittal (VIDEO)

"I humbly request you to please look at the reality of the situation and consider the immense wrong that has been done," he said. "Give me a reason to believe that for a person such as myself, an Italian like you, there is a possibility for a life."


USA TODAY

Hey RaffaSolAries, there's a possibility of a life .... in prison. And if you want to stay out of the spotlight, that's a good place to take a break from your current non-life and get some thinking done - no spotlight would fall on you there. ;)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Another excerpt from Sollecito's statement to the court (from a transcript prepared by Roberto Davide Papini):

11:41: REMINDER: "I CANNOT FIND WORK BECAUSE OF THIS ABSURD STORY" - Sollecito continues to speak: "Even today, six years later I still have to listen to this kind of things that are out of touch. I have great respect for the role of judges but, as they are human, they can also make mistakes. It hurts when I read in the judgment of the Supreme Court that there are various points taken into consideration by the same court to which it gives importance but they have none. Aviello, the wintess, who [you] had the sense to listen to so much, is at the pinnacle of embarrassment. And then the DNA on the bra clasp. Besides other items to keep up this absurd castle. And then the naked footprint. I have a defect in the foot that removes all doubt about the fact that the footprint is not mine. I do not know Rudy Guede, Meredith knew very little, it makes no sense that I would have had an interest in doing something so heinous to a twenty year old. This thing has been going on for too many years, my life has changed completely. I was offered the chance to go on vacation in the Dominican Republic by a dear friend. Even there I had to defend myself. Had I been anyone, nobody would have brought attention to this, but in my position I get all kinds of comments and I have to protect myself from them and justify what I do. Even things as simple and trivial as to be out of the spotlight, here in Italy are constantly in the spotlight. Looking for a job is difficult because every company interested in hiring me should publicly say that they are taking Raffaele Sollecito, still under judgment, a likely murderer. Nobody wants publicity of this kind and it is understandable."


LA NAZIONE


If I remember correctly it was his defence team that wanted Aviello in court so badly.

Besides all the rubbish he told the court, I find it very unusual how he refers to Meredith as " twenty year old". At the time she was murdered he was around the same age. He got older, she couldn't, but the way he says it, he makes it sound as if they weren't the same age bracket. He as well as Knox have all kind of terms to refer to Meredith, to depersonalise her.

As expected, Sollecito did little to make a convincing argument for his innocence. He came across as that self-centred guy who cares about nothing and no one except himself. Like the kind of person capable to take a life and not be bothered by it.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

What happened to the pictures of his bitten fingernails?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Another excerpt from Sollecito's statement to the court (from a transcript prepared by Roberto Davide Papini):

11:41: REMINDER: "I CANNOT FIND WORK BECAUSE OF THIS ABSURD STORY" - Sollecito continues to speak: "Even today, six years later I still have to listen to this kind of things that are out of touch. I have great respect for the role of judges but, as they are human, they can also make mistakes. It hurts when I read in the judgment of the Supreme Court that there are various points taken into consideration by the same court to which it gives importance but they have none. Aviello, the wintess, who [you] had the sense to listen to so much, is at the pinnacle of embarrassment. And then the DNA on the bra clasp. Besides other items to keep up this absurd castle. And then the naked footprint. I have a defect in the foot that removes all doubt about the fact that the footprint is not mine. I do not know Rudy Guede, Meredith knew very little, it makes no sense that I would have had an interest in doing something so heinous to a twenty year old. This thing has been going on for too many years, my life has changed completely. I was offered the chance to go on vacation in the Dominican Republic by a dear friend. Even there I had to defend myself. Had I been anyone, nobody would have brought attention to this, but in my position I get all kinds of comments and I have to protect myself from them and justify what I do. Even things as simple and trivial as to be out of the spotlight, here in Italy are constantly in the spotlight. Looking for a job is difficult because every company interested in hiring me should publicly say that they are taking Raffaele Sollecito, still under judgment, a likely murderer. Nobody wants publicity of this kind and it is understandable."


LA NAZIONE


If I remember correctly it was his defence team that wanted Aviello in court so badly.

Besides all the rubbish he told the court, I find it very unusual how he refers to Meredith as " twenty year old". At the time she was murdered he was around the same age. He got older, she couldn't, but the way he says it, he makes it sound as if they weren't the same age bracket. He as well as Knox have all kind of terms to refer to Meredith, to depersonalise her.

As expected, Sollecito did little to make a convincing argument for his innocence. He came across as that self-centred guy who cares about nothing and no one except himself. Like the kind of person capable to take a life and not be bothered by it.



He obviously is not going to make a lot of friends saying things like this:
Aviello, the witness, who [you] had the sense to listen to so much, is at the pinnacle of embarrassment.

Ridiculing people who are not even there is not going to appeal to anyone there right now, had the sense to listen to, he is kidding, being sarcastic at this stage, to a new court, dear oh dear oh deary me.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:

If I remember correctly it was his defence team that wanted Aviello in court so badly.

Besides all the rubbish he told the court, I find it very unusual how he refers to Meredith as " twenty year old". At the time she was murdered he was around the same age. He got older, she couldn't, but the way he says it, he makes it sound as if they weren't the same age bracket. He as well as Knox have all kind of terms to refer to Meredith, to depersonalise her.

As expected, Sollecito did little to make a convincing argument for his innocence. He came across as that self-centred guy who cares about nothing and no one except himself. Like the kind of person capable to take a life and not be bothered by it.


Good point, it was his team that wanted Alviello, he really is deluded.
When it's murder, going into court and crying like a poor little boy, when you are a full-grown man, and on that basis expecting sympathy, is rather ridiculous, oh look, he cannot get a job, oh look he is one of us, an Italian!! Whatever is he up to now, trying to be like Knox with the defence she has had at home by a bunch of xenophobic, small-minded fake patriots.
She's one of us, too bad about the murder, hand her over.
You are Italian, I'm Italian, you are Italian, I am Italian.

Judge: Make a note of that court clerk, he days he's Italian and for that reason, let him go.
He also wishes to say, since his family never had any problem with the law, it must mean he is innocent

Yes, at that level nobody in the world would ever be found guilty; there is always a first time to commit crime.

His family may not have had trouble, but they do now, and this great family of his did a number of things that are definitely illegal, they've gotten away with a most shocking type of behaviour, the handing over of confidential, highly sensitive material/footage to a commercial TV station, the screening of it showing a total disregard from rthe Sollecito family for what had happened to Meredith, there's nothing this oh so very respectful family of his would not have done, if they had the footage they'd have shown her naked with all of the wounds, thankfully that footage didn't show all of that.

I hope the lay judges are aware of that.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
He obviously is not going to make a lot of friends saying things like this:
Aviello, the witness, who [you] had the sense to listen to so much, is at the pinnacle of embarrassment.

Ridiculing people who are not even there is not going to appeal to anyone there right now, had the sense to listen to, he is kidding, being sarcastic at this stage, to a new court, dear oh dear oh deary me.


Exactly. And his criticism regarding Aviello as a witness is only one example. His speech was full of accusations. He mentions the shoe print that was initially believed to have been left by one of his shoes - later corrected, the bra clasp, the bloody footprint on the bathmat. He is telling the judges that all the courts so far have been incompetent. By complaining about Aviello he effectively includes the Hellmann court.

Another bit I found interesting was him saying he was "Italian" as if nationality mattered in a murder case. It reminded me of ex-Judge Michael Heavey pointing out in all his Rotary Club meetings that Amanda Knox is "one of our own".

I can see why Heavey would say that, but it escapes me what point Sollecito was trying to make.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
What happened to the pictures of his bitten fingernails?


I was asking myself the same thing.

Evidence phase is closed now. There will only be closing arguments and verdict. Maybe they will refer to it during their closing arguments, but that it is a bit late to make a compelling case.

Judging by yesterday's reporting their strongest argument for innocence is a compassionate plea to let him go because if he was arrested again and send to prison it would bother him too much.

Instead of looking miserable, Sollecito appeared tanned, having landed just a few hours before in Italy. Instead of exploiting the angle that his life is unbearable in Italy due to his notoriety and that his travels are related to that particular circumstance at least to a degree, he freely admits to to have been "on a holiday". He is also careful to mention that he was invited, because he knows his financial benefactors are listening.

Sollecito's pleas will fall on deaf ears because he has done nothing to keep a low profile after his release. He gave numerous interviews, appeared in television shows and published a book, so if people recognise him on the street, to some degree it is because he wants to be in the spotlight.

There is a good reason Barbie Nadeau called his appearance in court a pity party.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

That is crazy. How can you complain about notoriety when you get on the internet acting the fool, get a book out bashing both the courts and PM, travel the world, give slack-assed interviews, going to grave sites, etc??? It is embarrassing in a way for his lawyers IMO.

His dad must be crapping his pants about now. Does he look or sound innocent to ANYONE... regardless of the evidence? I hope to hear more about that from someone that was there.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

dgfred wrote:
That is crazy. How can you complain about notoriety when you get on the internet acting the fool, get a book out bashing both the courts and PM, travel the world, give slack-assed interviews, going to grave sites, etc??? It is embarrassing in a way for his lawyers IMO.

His dad must be crapping his pants about now. Does he look or sound innocent to ANYONE... regardless of the evidence? I hope to hear more about that from someone that was there.


If you are oon Twitter, you can follow Yummi, who tweets live from court about what is said in court and his impressions. Highly recommended. His addy is @Machiavelli_Aki.

Guermantes and Michael posted all tweets from journos and others present in the courtroom.

IIRC, Yummi said before the hearing started Bongiorno, Sollecito sr. and Sollecito jr. had a serious talk.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sollecito was advised to steer clear of any declarations against evidence. Other than the shoe print in Meredith's room that no one disputes is Guede!s now he challenges nothing. I think the strategy was to have him talk in a natural way with a subject he didn't have to lie about. Talking about how he feels persecuted ,unhappy and cannot find work rolled off his tongue. The plan was to make him appear honest. There was to no direct denial of anything which would have everyone looking for stilted speech or head nodding affirmative when he said no. I think that's why he was convincing because the only part he talked about he believed. Well he did reduce his drug use to the odd joint which we all know is not true.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Francesco Sforza has reappeared and written an article for Bruce Fischer's new website "Wrongful Convictions".

The piece was published under his pseudonym Frank Sfarzo: RAFFAELE SOLLECITO: “THOSE ILLUSIONS THEY BUILT AGAINST US”

Another inaccurate article, light reading. It's about the "unreliable" trace B that yielded Meredith's DNA profile and how Raffaele struggles to adjust to a life being a celebrity.

It's like stepping back in time.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:

Sollecito was advised to steer clear of any declarations against evidence.

Other than the shoe print in Meredith's room that no one disputes is Guede's now he challenges nothing.

I think the strategy was to have him talk in a natural way with a subject he didn't have to lie about.

Talking about how he feels persecuted, unhappy and cannot find work rolled off his tongue. The plan was to make him appear honest.

There was to no direct denial of anything which would have everyone looking for stilted speech or head nodding affirmative when he said no.

I think that's why he was convincing because the only part he talked about he believed.

Well he did reduce his drug use to the odd joint which we all know is not true.



That sounds highly probable to me.

Since the lay judges have to have a higher level of education at this state in the proceedings one can only hope they have the ability to see through such things.

Yes his appearance was to prevent him from looking like a single emtoty with Knox, Knox who has clearly stated nothing is bringing her back, except for the arm of the law and dressed in handcuffs, so he comes back and appears, he hopes/they hope, as the guy who has done nothing wrong and is doing nothing wrong.

I was wrong when I said I thought he would mot return but I am very curious to see if he remains in Italy. If he moves/gets out, I think it'll be as quietly as possible, in fact, if possible invisibly, and the only way anyone will know that he is not in Italy is if he is found guilty and the police want to know where he is.

Imagine how it is when the tables are turned and you depend on, let's say officials in the Dominican Republic; yes there may be no extradition treaty but one way or another he is going to be vulnerable.

This, I went to visit my DEAR friends,
considering there is no extradition treaty (though I only heard this here)
between Italy and the DR,
then seems to me he has, seriously been testing the place out.

Looks like it is going to be the place he is going to stay, I cannot see his so-called honour about to tell him stay here and take your punishment.
He refuses, he has made it clear, so I cannot see how he is going to stay around to hand huimself over.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

SURPRISE ! :)
Yes..c'est moi.

How are you all? First, let me say..I have never forgotten any of you. Is that English?
I so wanted to watch the Amanda interview..awhile back..was It with Cuomo? But could not bring myself to do so. However..I was on a blog with the Jodi Arias trial..( Jodi being the same birthday as Manders..and got into it with other posters. Interesting..most who had watched it thought Manders guilty. I then went into it..a la @ Amazon...:) and was gratified at the very ( pro guilt Knox posters)

I am out of the loop somewhat..and wonder if anyone would fill me in. I have read about Raf..ummm..his * innocence *. And of course that no DNA was found of Meredith on the knife.

For me..that was not the * aha* moment..in any event.

My love toMichael..to Guermantes..my admiration to Nell..and my other cohorts.

( I did..in the interim..break my foot......very annoying to say the least.

I may have left for a bit..but as I said.. Never gone :)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

AND...Hello ZORBA......So nice to see you here. Kiss

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
dgfred wrote:
That is crazy. How can you complain about notoriety when you get on the internet acting the fool, get a book out bashing both the courts and PM, travel the world, give slack-assed interviews, going to grave sites, etc??? It is embarrassing in a way for his lawyers IMO.

His dad must be crapping his pants about now. Does he look or sound innocent to ANYONE... regardless of the evidence? I hope to hear more about that from someone that was there.


If you are on Twitter, you can follow Yummi, who tweets live from court about what is said in court and his impressions. Highly recommended. His addy is @Machiavelli_Aki.

Guermantes and Michael posted all tweets from journos and others present in the courtroom.

IIRC, Yummi said before the hearing started Bongiorno, Sollecito sr. and Sollecito jr. had a serious talk.



Well not quite all Nell, and I'm glad about that, looking at Kington there's no need to reproduce any of that.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
AND...Hello ZORBA......So nice to see you here. Kiss



Hi Cape, likewise, always wondered where you were.
Kiss back

Fill in

1) Sollecito returned from a year-long holiday.

2) Sollecito has been on dozens of TV shows, interviews, done dozens of newspaper interviews, obviously all paid for, while having set up an internet account, it's called GoFundMe, he has been using that to ask for donations/a little bit of money for months, half a million to be precise to pay for his legal fees, in court yesterday he was on the whining tour as in poor me, I hate all the fame, I cannot live as a normal person, even on holiday I have to answer questions, yet he actively sought out the media to work for him = yesterday's appearance = pathetic.

3) The court is in Florence, it is the appeal phase being redone, since the first attempt at an appeal was overturned by the supreme court this year, basically reinstating the original ruling of GUILTY, therefore, this is not, as repeatedly erroneously referred to: a RETRIAL, it is an appeal hearing, appeal procedure,

4) The actual trial is all of it together, there is only one trial,
and all of the segments (appeals) are part of it,
if this was not the case,
then one could indeed speak of double jeopardy,
like where you have trial and it is done with, then at a later stage, the state authorities decide to try you again,
this was never the case and all involved knew this full well,
but they, meaning even certain Italians, have been keen to latch onto anything that might sow confusion,
the basic idea or strategy has been to sow misinformation,
thereby misrepresenting the concepts of law that underpin all of this,
so as I said,
it is all ONE trial,
to speak of a retrial shows a basic misunderstanding of the law relevant here,
which is Italian law,
there is no retrial,
there is a second appeal.

By repeatedly writing in the news that it is a retrial, those that do this help to sow these misconceptions, these incorrect ideas, as though: ah the poor things were set free and now those evil people in Italy decided to RETRY them,
they did no such thing,
all of the lawyers obviously knew the laws or they would not be lawyers,
and that means they made everything clear to Knox and Sollecito and their families,
but it suits these people, Knox and Sollecito, to have the facts misrepresented and told incorrectly, so that the accused (they) might gain pity and have people get angry at the idea of there being some kind of injustice, that being to keep on retrying them, but they have never been retried, it was always ONE TRIAL.

5) The experts called in by the Hellmann court (the ruling of which was nullified and made void this year) found another trace on the knife. They said it was too small to analyse. At this new appeal (the appeal redone), the prosecution requested that this unanalysed trace be tested, the presiding judge agreed to that, the results were released in court in Florence yesterday.

A second trace belong to Ms Knox was detected on the knife at the hilt, where blade meets handle.

The prosecution at no time expressed any wish or idea that there might be a trace belonging to any single person (for instance: they never said they hoped it would be Meredith's trace or that they thought it would be, and they never mentioned Guede, they knew his trace was NEVER going to be on there and anyone could have worked that much out so no way were they ever going to be saying any such thing about any of them, all as they wanted was tests to be performed), all as they wished for was for the trace to be examined.

The propaganda and false information industry set up by PR FIRM Marriot has been out having it appear as though the prosecution expected the trace to be Meredith's, hoped that it would be Guede's (etc.), this was never the case,
and so when anyhow,
it was not Meredith's trace,
the PR people and those reporting false information,
reported that everyone said it proves they are all innocent,
and with that,
threw in that Meredith's traces are not on the knife AT ALL,
but the testing done by Dott. Stefanoni, was never thrown out,
the Hellmann court acted illegally and that's why Mr Hellmann's rulings were all overturned/voided,
so anything he ruled does not count,
therefore what Massei found,
does count,
and Meredith's trace is on that knife,
Sollecito the knife owner,
his traces are not on the knife,
still Meredith's trace could never be on the knife without the knife having been used to kill her,
the chances of it being on there in his house when SHE HAD NEVER BEEN to his house
where murder is involved and is the context,
is: 1 to 233333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 billion.

I made the last bit up it's probably more accurate to say: 23333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 billion... the last numeral (3) was one too many.

6) Sollecito spent his time since release travelling the world, he and Knox have been stating things about wanting to visit Meredith's grave, Meredith's family were very against any idea of such a thing, then just recently Sollecito stated he had already visited it. Sollecito's last stop was on the Dominican Republic, he supposedly had a dear friend as he liked to call tit, there, but, funny how the Dominican Republic is the one place that has no extradition treaty with Italy and has played home to many an Italian crook in the past.

7) Before fleeing Europe Sollecito had landed in Switzerland, he filled in forms to get residence permit status but failed to tell them that he was actually involved as a main accused in a murder trial in neighbouring Italy, when the locals and those in authority found this out, they kicked him out. Sollecito's father said the Swiss had missed the opportunity to show how great they could have been, or some such nonsense.

8) Knox has been presenting herself as an author, soap show spectacles lodged on the end of her nose, eyes peering over the top, pen in hand, in front of outsize bookcase, oh so very studious and serious, glossed up she appeared on multiple TV shows, she then stated that she would not be returning to Italy, ever, for the court proceedings or to serve her time if given it. She also caught the Dempsey disease of self-delusion, started presenting herself as best selling author, it appears the money she got paid, she used to buy her own books, because in no way is she a best selling author.
And.. she is not an author. She is a woman on trial for murder who wrote a book. That's a disgusting opportunist and manipulator.

There are more important facts but I cannot think of all of them right away I'm sure others will.

7) The amount of coincidences defy common sense.

8) The Supreme Court ruled that judge Hellmann had ignore all of the required steps for proceeding in a court of law, as to the way evidence is viewed, specifically, it is unacceptable for judges to judge and direct lay judges to rule on matters considering separate pieces of evidence as fact as being all independent of one another, the contents must be seen in relation to one another where a relationship exists, this is not as complicated as it sounds, in fact the basis of it is simply logical thinking and sound reasoning = common sense.

Also, the high court made it clear that the relevance of what Knox did to Patrick Lumumba must be taken into consideration in any future ruling, given the fact that it is a very AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCE OR ELEMENT: had he been found guilty the sentence he could have been given is life, and that means that Knox's 3 years was way too little for doing this to a person, she could have been given something like 15 years because the sentencing for such a thing is based on the potential sentence the one falsely accused of crimes could get!!!!! You cannot get a 3-year sentence for doing that to someone, the man could have been given a life sentence!!!

So Massei gave them way too much slack too (somehow he mitigated).

Hellmann in having decided what he was going to do even before he ever entered the courthouse, agreed to the calumnia ruling, as he could not really get out of that and used it to appear like he was bona fide, when it is more than clear that he was anything but impartial and ignored everyone and everything to his own liking, a law thus unto himself.

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Last edited by zorba on Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thank you, Zorba. That is a teriffic synopsis. I am left grinding my teeth. Why do I feel he has nothing to fear? Of course..he has to appear..unlike Knox.

I must catch up. This case still makes me so angry. It's 6 years right? Anyone know how the Kercher Family are doing? Are they in Court?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
Thank you, Zorba. That is a teriffic synopsis. I am left grinding my teeth. Why do I feel he has nothing to fear? Of course..he has to appear..unlike Knox.

I must catch up. This case still makes me so angry. It's 6 years right? Anyone know how the Kercher Family are doing? Are they in Court?



You're welcome, it's not that terrific but there is quite a lot to say.

Oh he has EVERYTHING to fear. He is inextricably linked to Knox and the murder.

Meredith's DNA is on that knife.

There is no way it could or should have been on it.

The only way it could be on it, based on their own words --and that of Meredith's friends all of whom stated that Meredith had never been to Sollecitós home-- is if it was used to murder Meredith.
Since her DNA is certainly on it, then that knife was used to murder Meredith, I cannot see any other possibility.

Knox's DNA is on the knife, and Sollecito's isn't, that points to Knox being the last person to use the knife, and the killer of Meredith. And also to the very likely possibility that Knox cleaned the knife, certainly, she would have had to because blood would have been all over it.

I think it a true pity the knife blade was not separated from the handle, because where they last rubbed for traces, at the spot between blade and handle, there;s no rub that could get under the space that IS THERE BETWEEN the blade and the handle, so I suspect that further traces wiould be located there, Meredith's. That bit I do not get, why it is they did not order the knife to be separated.
Anyhow, all in all it is sufficient.

Sollecito's DNA is on the bra clasp. Heaps of stuff he said has already been shown to be lies. Most crime is solved not on catching people red-handed but on the circumstantial evidence, to weigh that all up one must see it as a while, which the Hellmann court ignored and that is why it was voided, when the supreme court voided it, they laid down specific demands as to how the new appeal should proceed and there's no way the new appeal could ignore significant facts the way Hellmann's court did that. When a person says so many things that when investigated turn out to be untrue, logic and sound reason says they are lying.

Guede was found guilty but was found guilty as a multiple attacker, thus, with others, relevantly, the others, in a circumstantial and logical way, are Knox and Sollecito, there is no way this new appeal can say only one person attacked Meredith and killed her. All of the circumstantial evidence, taken as a whole and each bit seen in relationship to the others, in a logical way (sound reasoning), points profoundly and vigorously to both Knox and Sollecito.

The Kercher family: Mother and father are both unwell, through illness, father suffered a stroke, mother is a diabetic. They have not set about taking part in lucrative TV, newspaper or magazine deals, so their funds, unlike Knox's and Sollecito's, are extremely limited.
I expect the children will attend the sentencing/ruling, but I do not know that.

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Last edited by zorba on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

WELCOME back, capealadin! How are the grandchildren?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

capealadin wrote:
SURPRISE ! :)
Yes..c'est moi.

How are you all? First, let me say..I have never forgotten any of you. Is that English?
I so wanted to watch the Amanda interview..awhile back..was It with Cuomo? But could not bring myself to do so. However..I was on a blog with the Jodi Arias trial..( Jodi being the same birthday as Manders..and got into it with other posters. Interesting..most who had watched it thought Manders guilty. I then went into it..a la @ Amazon...:) and was gratified at the very ( pro guilt Knox posters)

I am out of the loop somewhat..and wonder if anyone would fill me in. I have read about Raf..ummm..his * innocence *. And of course that no DNA was found of Meredith on the knife.

For me..that was not the * aha* moment..in any event.

My love toMichael..to Guermantes..my admiration to Nell..and my other cohorts.

( I did..in the interim..break my foot......very annoying to say the least.

I may have left for a bit..but as I said.. Never gone :)


Hi Cape!

I cannot believe my eyes. It is so good to see you back. I had been wondering if you would come back for the appeal. It's great to hear from you.

I'm sorry to hear about your foot, I wish you a speedy recovery.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Update on Frank Sfarzo, from Machiavelli: https://twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/sta ... 5443512320

"Frank Sfarzo asked for a short track trial. This entitles for penalty mitigation, but no reduction of damage payment. Hearing on Dec. 6"

https://twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/sta ... 3165153281

"I'm talking about his aggravated defamation case in Florence."
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, cape!! Welcome back!
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Update on Frank Sfarzo, from Machiavelli: https://twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/sta ... 5443512320

"Frank Sfarzo asked for a short track trial. This entitles for penalty mitigation, but no reduction of damage payment. Hearing on Dec. 6"

https://twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/sta ... 3165153281

"I'm talking about his aggravated defamation case in Florence."


Oh, for crap sake! Here I was, thinking that Sfarxo missed his opportunity to cover Raffaele's appearance in court because of his own run-in with the law. I should have known that the sneaky weasel would have figured out some way to get his version of the story out.

I wonder if he is going to become somme sort of feature writer for Bruiser. Now there's a match made in.......
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

My goodness. Hey Cape hugz-)

We sure missed you. Get the butt-kicking foot better asap.

Things are looking bleak for the deadly duo... while justice is finally making it thru the clouds.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

At this point in time, if the situation was, that section Seattle knew not of what Mr Sollecito is planning to do, and this could change from mood to mood, then I imagine department store Knox, is not that relaxed, since it's clear if Sollecito remains in Italy, and the ruling is issued, and it is against them, and he gets hauled in, his fabrications are going to start breaking down rapidly, because if this appeal hearing decides GUILTY, then it seems pretty much a given that the supreme court is going to uphold it, once that takes place, if Sollecito is in prison, he's going to start singing a different tune.

Seems to me, he has thought all along that his involvement was too heavy, so if he did not actually stab Meredith, he still thought the pair of them could get away with it, and his thinking, simplistically and selfishly, and totally law disrespectingly, contrary to his latest tales, was that it's happened and now it is too late and so we have to make the best of a bad situation, it is no use us having our lives destroyed too, even if we did destroy Meredith. In fact, Knox, in the only way she saw open to herself, to communicate with him, spoke in code language, making up a tale in which she named certain elements that she was sure Sollecito would recognise as being relevant to them, and so pick up on what she was saying, which was the above, namely, when things are bad you have to make the best of it with what you have, and her reasoning was saying, they have to pretend they did not do it. Assuring him that way, that this is what they ought to do and I think she did that to make sure or to try to urge him to think likewise. All of the preceding is my opinion.

So for instance, you are in a prison, you know that all mail should not get read but you know that everyone has been telling you all mail gets read.

One, alternative; you know that it is the prison's right to open letters in order to maintain security, since prisoners could be planning escapes, asking people to bring weapons, drugs, money anything in, so you know it's either they are not allowed to open letters but do it anyhow, perhaps or otherwise they are allowed to do it.
So you as prisoner, if you know this, you NEVER write anything in letters that you do not want the authorities to know.

The only way then to say stuff is person to person, and that is watched, and monitored and you never know what is being recorded either. So you can tell a fellow inmate a story and have him her get it to your co-defendant, but that's difficult too and how can you know who you can trust? You don't.

So you write stuff in letters to friends or in things you know will be made public, you say, I remember that guy, we always used to meet him in that bar called Chicos.
One of those involved, was simply called Chico, a nickname, and you know then, if you are a Knox, that a Sollecito is going to pick up on that right away as he knows exactly who Chico was.

You write: it's a pity how he left when he did because the party went on for hours, etc.

What Knox did was write a story about hazy rooms, and people passed out, etc, and in it there is most definitely hidden facts about this case. To anyone reading they mean nothing, but to someone who picks up on certain link-up bits because he/she lived through them, it is all very meaningful.

I'm going to have to go back and re-examine that tale.

What is almost hilarious if it wasn't all so heavy, is the way the pair of them have used a classic, this about religion, to people who don't know, it might be believable, but show that to any person in jail and they'll laugh their socks off because it is known throughout all prisons, the classic guy who embarks on the I have found God routine, and if a case has ever been crystal clear it is that of Knox with her praying mantis hands, ah so sweet isn't it, yes, and has been used so much in prisons by cons trying to get parole that the parole board never believe it, they've seen it so often, it takes more than a bit of clasping hands together to convince parole boards.
Then using it in combination with you saying a prayer for your victim, is the absolute height of wickedness, that is not a prayer, that's casting an evil spell on someone, in life and death, why is it that you just cannot leave a person alone, is dead not enough for you SOLLECITO?
Apparently not.
Kill a girl then hound her parents.

Did any single one of them or their cohorts ever tell those bastards online to shut up picking on Meredith's family members, those who have said so little and have shown what integrity is all about?

No, not one, least of all Sollecito and Knox.
That is exactly how much they care and exactly the type of good citizens they are.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Update on Frank Sfarzo, from Machiavelli: https://twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/sta ... 5443512320

"Frank Sfarzo asked for a short track trial. This entitles for penalty mitigation, but no reduction of damage payment. Hearing on Dec. 6"

https://twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/sta ... 3165153281

"I'm talking about his aggravated defamation case in Florence."


Oh, for crap sake! Here I was, thinking that Sfarxo missed his opportunity to cover Raffaele's appearance in court because of his own run-in with the law. I should have known that the sneaky weasel would have figured out some way to get his version of the story out.

I wonder if he is going to become some sort of feature writer for Bruiser. Now there's a match made in.......



It is beyond belief, because here he is up on charges himself, yet he cannot leave it out, he continues.

As someone said recently, the terribly unfortunate meeting of like minds, Sollecito and Knox, and the mixture being a recipe for disaster, well it is just as though Sfarzo was one of them, he's equally loathsome. I think Sfarzo was a coke-head or something, where does he get off, who does he imagine would listen to him, the woman, old man, all round BASHER UPPER. He's just the publicity you need when trying to pretend you are a gently praying little flowery type, yes, there you have the mother and sister basher, great, they'll believe him.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Update on Frank Sfarzo, from Machiavelli: https://twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/sta ... 5443512320

"Frank Sfarzo asked for a short track trial. This entitles for penalty mitigation, but no reduction of damage payment. Hearing on Dec. 6"

https://twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/sta ... 3165153281

"I'm talking about his aggravated defamation case in Florence."



I cannot recall right now, but I think a prosecutor does not have to accept the request for the abbreviated hearing.

Would love to hear it was refused.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So it appears that my information about Frank Sfarzo's case not being postponed was correct. It began, he appeared in court (still waiting for final confirmation) and requested a fast track trial. My other information, that his trial in Perugia on the assault charges, still on going, and the prosecutor is Paolo Abritti? Kindly confirmed by Yummi. However, as far as the aggravated defamation charges are concerned, be aware he might just be fined. Which will probably be paid by a rich American sugar mommy. The Lady Preston, perhaps?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:45 pm   Post subject: ON PERSONAL ATTACKS   

Which brings me to the case of Bruce Fischer. Ever since we exposed the extent of his lies to his own members, about Frank Sfarzo, about the low definition photos which obscured the scratches on the Double DNA knife (many of them sourced by Frank) the missing 112 calls made by Raffaele Sollecito, he has been on a crusade to discredit the source. Since my name has always been public knowledge, it is no surprise to see them attacking me. (Michelle Moore visited my LinkedIn profile, and someone called "Leone" posted it a few times, but still I seem to be around.

Funny also, the Amandii, feeling threatened by Ed McCall and his Wiki, should issue an 'invitation' to 'discuss' the case with him on Bruce's show. That is up to McCall, of course, and he made it clear it wasn't worth his time, for which he was called a 'chicken' and 'coward' by the 'Bruisers'. Funny, though, that when I invited Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito to discuss with someone they consider to be a 'hater' they have refused to reply, and when I ask whether the same implication should not apply, that the two are 'cowards' who can only speak through tame media, I get attacked again?

Source: http://groundreport.com/anti-amanda-kno ... 1112181991
Quote:
Funny how you banned Dr_Tesla from the Frank Sfarzo blog for "spamming", Bruce Fischer, yet follow me around the web spamming endlessly about my spiritual beliefs which are irrelevant to the case or what I say about it. Hypocrite much? You can't debate, are a thin skinned man, and as to dishonesty, do tell why your co-admin "Sarah Snyder" said it was a mistake for the FOA to release the high definition evidence photos in March 2013 if you already had them? Does that also have to do with the separate set of pictures of the knife I released which quite clearly disprove Frank's claim the scratches on the knife are 'too tiny' to retain Meredith's DNA'?
Do tell why your readers had to ask for Raffaele Sollecito's 112 calls to be posted on your site. I was the one who posted the complete 112 calls on PMF dot net and they had to come there to listen to them, LOL.
Amanda Knox runs around television studios calling people 'haters' which I suppose gives her the excuse not actually having to confront or debate with them, or even answer any uncomfortable questions, and sends surrogates like yourself instead. So, when you challenge McCall for a debate, then imply he is 'chicken' for ignoring you, I wonder why you don't apply the same standards to her and Raffaele Sollecito, who ignored my very polite invitation 'to be heard'?
It appears that Amanda Knox has indeed, 'much to hide', and is not too confident in her very powerful, er, voice.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
At this point in time, if the situation was, that section Seattle knew not of what Mr Sollecito is planning to do, and this could change from mood to mood, then I imagine department store Knox, is not that relaxed, since it's clear if Sollecito remains in Italy, and the ruling is issued, and it is against them, and he gets hauled in, his fabrications are going to start breaking down rapidly, because if this appeal hearing decides GUILTY, then it seems pretty much a given that the supreme court is going to uphold it, once that takes place, if Sollecito is in prison, he's going to start singing a different tune.

Seems to me, he has thought all along that his involvement was too heavy, so if he did not actually stab Meredith, he still thought the pair of them could get away with it, and his thinking, simplistically and selfishly, and totally law disrespectingly, contrary to his latest tales, was that it's happened and now it is too late and so we have to make the best of a bad situation, it is no use us having our lives destroyed too, even if we did destroy Meredith. In fact, Knox, in the only way she saw open to herself, to communicate with him, spoke in code language, making up a tale in which she named certain elements that she was sure Sollecito would recognise as being relevant to them, and so pick up on what she was saying, which was the above, namely, when things are bad you have to make the best of it with what you have, and her reasoning was saying, they have to pretend they did not do it. Assuring him that way, that this is what they ought to do and I think she did that to make sure or to try to urge him to think likewise. All of the preceding is my opinion.

So for instance, you are in a prison, you know that all mail should not get read but you know that everyone has been telling you all mail gets read.

One, alternative; you know that it is the prison's right to open letters in order to maintain security, since prisoners could be planning escapes, asking people to bring weapons, drugs, money anything in, so you know it's either they are not allowed to open letters but do it anyhow, perhaps or otherwise they are allowed to do it.
So you as prisoner, if you know this, you NEVER write anything in letters that you do not want the authorities to know.

The only way then to say stuff is person to person, and that is watched, and monitored and you never know what is being recorded either. So you can tell a fellow inmate a story and have him her get it to your co-defendant, but that's difficult too and how can you know who you can trust? You don't.

So you write stuff in letters to friends or in things you know will be made public, you say, I remember that guy, we always used to meet him in that bar called Chicos.
One of those involved, was simply called Chico, a nickname, and you know then, if you are a Knox, that a Sollecito is going to pick up on that right away as he knows exactly who Chico was.

You write: it's a pity how he left when he did because the party went on for hours, etc.

What Knox did was write a story about hazy rooms, and people passed out, etc, and in it there is most definitely hidden facts about this case. To anyone reading they mean nothing, but to someone who picks up on certain link-up bits because he/she lived through them, it is all very meaningful.

I'm going to have to go back and re-examine that tale.

What is almost hilarious if it wasn't all so heavy, is the way the pair of them have used a classic, this about religion, to people who don't know, it might be believable, but show that to any person in jail and they'll laugh their socks off because it is known throughout all prisons, the classic guy who embarks on the I have found God routine, and if a case has ever been crystal clear it is that of Knox with her praying mantis hands, ah so sweet isn't it, yes, and has been used so much in prisons by cons trying to get parole that the parole board never believe it, they've seen it so often, it takes more than a bit of clasping hands together to convince parole boards.
Then using it in combination with you saying a prayer for your victim, is the absolute height of wickedness, that is not a prayer, that's casting an evil spell on someone, in life and death, why is it that you just cannot leave a person alone, is dead not enough for you SOLLECITO?
Apparently not.
Kill a girl then hound her parents.

Did any single one of them or their cohorts ever tell those bastards online to shut up picking on Meredith's family members, those who have said so little and have shown what integrity is all about?

No, not one, least of all Sollecito and Knox.
That is exactly how much they care and exactly the type of good citizens they are.


Yes, I get this, zorba. It's almost like watching a dance, where you can't hear the music, but can pick up on a certain rhythm going on. Secret. But present all the same. I have to wonder a little about the court appearance the other day. Knox and her followers have certainly gotten a bunch of mileage out of the poor, little white American beauty. Are we hearing the beginning of the 'honorable, comes-from-a-good-family, innocent, virginal, ITALIAN boy? Led astray beyond all limits by the amoral, AMERICAN temptress? Should he have played this card from the beginning? What's the female for White Knight? Could he have assembled a following of sympathetic Italian women, "Look at what the American girl got him involved with?"

Whom did he feel needed reminding that he's Italian?
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
At this point in time, if the situation was, that section Seattle knew not of what Mr Sollecito is planning to do, and this could change from mood to mood, then I imagine department store Knox, is not that relaxed, since it's clear if Sollecito remains in Italy, and the ruling is issued, and it is against them, and he gets hauled in, his fabrications are going to start breaking down rapidly, because if this appeal hearing decides GUILTY, then it seems pretty much a given that the supreme court is going to uphold it, once that takes place, if Sollecito is in prison, he's going to start singing a different tune.

Seems to me, he has thought all along that his involvement was too heavy, so if he did not actually stab Meredith, he still thought the pair of them could get away with it, and his thinking, simplistically and selfishly, and totally law disrespectingly, contrary to his latest tales, was that it's happened and now it is too late and so we have to make the best of a bad situation, it is no use us having our lives destroyed too, even if we did destroy Meredith. In fact, Knox, in the only way she saw open to herself, to communicate with him, spoke in code language, making up a tale in which she named certain elements that she was sure Sollecito would recognise as being relevant to them, and so pick up on what she was saying, which was the above, namely, when things are bad you have to make the best of it with what you have, and her reasoning was saying, they have to pretend they did not do it. Assuring him that way, that this is what they ought to do and I think she did that to make sure or to try to urge him to think likewise. All of the preceding is my opinion.

So for instance, you are in a prison, you know that all mail should not get read but you know that everyone has been telling you all mail gets read.

One, alternative; you know that it is the prison's right to open letters in order to maintain security, since prisoners could be planning escapes, asking people to bring weapons, drugs, money anything in, so you know it's either they are not allowed to open letters but do it anyhow, perhaps or otherwise they are allowed to do it.
So you as prisoner, if you know this, you NEVER write anything in letters that you do not want the authorities to know.

The only way then to say stuff is person to person, and that is watched, and monitored and you never know what is being recorded either. So you can tell a fellow inmate a story and have him her get it to your co-defendant, but that's difficult too and how can you know who you can trust? You don't.

So you write stuff in letters to friends or in things you know will be made public, you say, I remember that guy, we always used to meet him in that bar called Chicos.
One of those involved, was simply called Chico, a nickname, and you know then, if you are a Knox, that a Sollecito is going to pick up on that right away as he knows exactly who Chico was.

You write: it's a pity how he left when he did because the party went on for hours, etc.

What Knox did was write a story about hazy rooms, and people passed out, etc, and in it there is most definitely hidden facts about this case. To anyone reading they mean nothing, but to someone who picks up on certain link-up bits because he/she lived through them, it is all very meaningful.

I'm going to have to go back and re-examine that tale.

What is almost hilarious if it wasn't all so heavy, is the way the pair of them have used a classic, this about religion, to people who don't know, it might be believable, but show that to any person in jail and they'll laugh their socks off because it is known throughout all prisons, the classic guy who embarks on the I have found God routine, and if a case has ever been crystal clear it is that of Knox with her praying mantis hands, ah so sweet isn't it, yes, and has been used so much in prisons by cons trying to get parole that the parole board never believe it, they've seen it so often, it takes more than a bit of clasping hands together to convince parole boards.
Then using it in combination with you saying a prayer for your victim, is the absolute height of wickedness, that is not a prayer, that's casting an evil spell on someone, in life and death, why is it that you just cannot leave a person alone, is dead not enough for you SOLLECITO?
Apparently not.
Kill a girl then hound her parents.

Did any single one of them or their cohorts ever tell those bastards online to shut up picking on Meredith's family members, those who have said so little and have shown what integrity is all about?

No, not one, least of all Sollecito and Knox.
That is exactly how much they care and exactly the type of good citizens they are.


Yes, I get this, zorba. It's almost like watching a dance, where you can't hear the music, but can pick up on a certain rhythm going on. Secret. But present all the same. I have to wonder a little about the court appearance the other day. Knox and her followers have certainly gotten a bunch of mileage out of the poor, little white American beauty. Are we hearing the beginning of the 'honorable, comes-from-a-good-family, innocent, virginal, ITALIAN boy? Led astray beyond all limits by the amoral, AMERICAN temptress? Should he have played this card from the beginning? What's the female for White Knight? Could he have assembled a following of sympathetic Italian women, "Look at what the American girl got him involved with?"

Whom did he feel needed reminding that he's Italian?




The feeling I was getting is similar, only, I sense he is doing what she is doing, or her family did, which is use or play into people's sense of patriotism, I don't think it'll work for him.

In Italy they're a bit more sceptical and sarcastic, as general trait, they look at the rich son waiting for his father to die and they will not respect him, viewing well-to-do as being precisely the people who think they can live above the law, it was the way before, and they've been trying to rid society of it.

Years ago, the rich in Italy got away with doing whatever they liked, the change in the judiciary also reflects the all-round desire to ban all of that, the pulpit or the place where the judges used to sit commonly known as the bench, used to be raised many feet higher than where the folk were positioned, just that alone was something they had to change, since it was the judges peering down at the lowly folk, and yes it was only the lowly folk that got taken to court, as is still done in many societies one way or another to differing degrees, where the well-off are given special treatment, anyhow, we're talking of Italy and only the lowly folk ended up in courts, since rich people were all connected and could pay off others anyway, and so those lowly folk, peered down upon the folk in every sense, the folk were not given rights, they had no chance in court. The Italians are not stupid and have a good sense of time and history, their history, and they do not like people like him, a rich kid, a rich kid in that bad sense, the arrogant, entitled sense; Sollecito meets or complies with all of those old-fashioned classic markers.
Since simply coming from a family that has money is of itself not something bad, however, traditionally it often was, because traditionally those that had wealth had accumulated it one way or the other, by holding others down, as ordinary people had few rights. Still, there are still traditions persisting, and I feel what Sollecito is doing is a lot to do with not dishonouring the family and I think somehow his dad has more a sense of that, embedded in his entire being, than of actually protecting his son.

His father HAD been an honourable man, as in, he could walk around his hometown and people obviously would have looked up to him, there's a successful man, working for state clinics, and running at least two of his own in partnership, I doubt he just dumped the lot, no, he could retire but why would he need to sell up when it is an endless source of income, seeing as how people are always going to get ill. He may have sold up but then it would have been millions. Still, I expect he'd already made a tidy sum through the years, invested in stuff, and so I doubt he did sell up.
But then son beings all of this trouble, he walks around his home town and everyone is now looking at him sideways straight from the neck, so even if he wanted to he cannot accept his son being involved and that's how, I think, that element overrode every other consideration, making him dishonest; his faher will say his son did nothing, he will do so until the day he dies.
If his son were to own up, he would disown him. I think. And that disowning would be more about himn owning up than the guilt itself. The son cannot accept guilt, he must uphold the family name.
Dad is protecting his own interests.

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Online Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall posted a neat flow chart of the many trials here on .ORG http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewto ... 38#p148838 Could someone download it here please so we can comment and offer suggestions before he makes a graphic? Still figuring out my new Windows 8 computer :)
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The version on .ORG was just something I needed for last night. The version on Twitter is the better version. The immediate need has passed but I'll return to it on Sunday just to have a finished version since this might be something that will come up again. People seem to really have a trouble understanding the trial flow.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This American example might make the difference between a court trial and a court appeal clearer.

Trial Court
Federal trial courts are called district courts.
Cases are heard for the first time in a trial court
Cases only affect the people involved with the case
The two sides present evidence and witnesses, and either a judge or a jury makes a decision based on the evidence presented

Appellate Court
Federal appellate courts are called courts of appeals. Cases can be further appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court.

If either party disagrees with the decision in the trial court, they can appeal, asking a higher court to review the decision.

The outcome of appeals cases have the potential to affect large numbers of people, because these decisions are binding on district courts within the circuit.

No new evidence is presented, the judge(s) simply review the materials from the original trial and determine whether the lower court made the correct legal decision.

______________________________________________________________

There has been only 1 (one) trial.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
McCall posted a neat flow chart of the many trials here on .ORG http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewto ... 38#p148838 Could someone download it here please so we can comment and offer suggestions before he makes a graphic? Still figuring out my new Windows 8 computer :)



Only you should not call them trials because they are not.

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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Another excerpt from Sollecito's statement to the court (from a transcript prepared by Roberto Davide Papini):

11:41: REMINDER: "I CANNOT FIND WORK BECAUSE OF THIS ABSURD STORY" - Sollecito continues to speak: "Even today, six years later I still have to listen to this kind of things that are out of touch. I have great respect for the role of judges but, as they are human, they can also make mistakes. It hurts when I read in the judgment of the Supreme Court that there are various points taken into consideration by the same court to which it gives importance but they have none. Aviello, the wintess, who [you] had the sense to listen to so much, is at the pinnacle of embarrassment. And then the DNA on the bra clasp. Besides other items to keep up this absurd castle. And then the naked footprint. I have a defect in the foot that removes all doubt about the fact that the footprint is not mine. I do not know Rudy Guede, Meredith knew very little, it makes no sense that I would have had an interest in doing something so heinous to a twenty year old. This thing has been going on for too many years, my life has changed completely. I was offered the chance to go on vacation in the Dominican Republic by a dear friend. Even there I had to defend myself. Had I been anyone, nobody would have brought attention to this, but in my position I get all kinds of comments and I have to protect myself from them and justify what I do. Even things as simple and trivial as to be out of the spotlight, here in Italy are constantly in the spotlight. Looking for a job is difficult because every company interested in hiring me should publicly say that they are taking Raffaele Sollecito, still under judgment, a likely murderer. Nobody wants publicity of this kind and it is understandable."


LA NAZIONE


If I remember correctly it was his defence team that wanted Aviello in court so badly.

Besides all the rubbish he told the court, I find it very unusual how he refers to Meredith as " twenty year old". At the time she was murdered he was around the same age. He got older, she couldn't, but the way he says it, he makes it sound as if they weren't the same age bracket. He as well as Knox have all kind of terms to refer to Meredith, to depersonalise her.

As expected, Sollecito did little to make a convincing argument for his innocence. He came across as that self-centred guy who cares about nothing and no one except himself. Like the kind of person capable to take a life and not be bothered by it.


This emotional statement from Raffaele could have an impact on female lay judges. Do we know the gender makeup of the judging panel? I could understand this particular brand of pity plea made to four or more female lay judges, well educated or not, being effective for defense. Saw a photo of RS in courtroom where there were three female lay judges shown with the two professional judges, one male and one female. A young, good-looking guy from a good family pleading for his life back could have an impact on females more inclined to allow leniency. wa-))

A particularly interesting tweet from Barbie Nadeau caught my eye: 'Jury totally transfixed by #sollecito declaration, can't take their eyes off him.'

'Popper' has posted the 8-person judge panel of 2 professional judges and 6 lay judges could be split 4-4 resulting in defendant(s) being acquitted. With two months before deliberating, hope the prosecution can unwind any sympathy RS created for himself with his statement of Nov. 6th. bricks-)


Last edited by Slade on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
The version on .ORG was just something I needed for last night. The version on Twitter is the better version. The immediate need has passed but I'll return to it on Sunday just to have a finished version since this might be something that will come up again. People seem to really have a trouble understanding the trial flow.


Saw the flow chart on .org and noticed Patrick Lumumba's civil trials weren't listed, although AK did testify and sometimes her testimony from those sessions are quoted elsewhere. Would there be any value in including these civil trials, or would that confuse and clutter up the graphics meant to simplify all these judicial proceedings?
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