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XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30, 13 - JULY 31, 14

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:

The name was acquired on November 9 2007. It does appear to have been used at various time between 2009 and the present although never to host a website. The March 21 2009 date is when it got transferred from having Dynadot as the registrar to having Domain.com. It has nothing to do with activating. The site was up for renewal and the owner just wanted to use a new company. It is possible they allowed the name to expire. The person who owns it has only been registering a year and a time. That can lead to forgetting and having the domain expire. I only registered the wiki for a year but next time I'm purchasing services I'll add a ten year extension that way I don't need to worry about it. For the Amanda Knox's site in 7 years they have switched registrars five times and it appears always because they allowed the domain to expire.

Originally the site was not private but privacy has since been added. Privacy makes it impossible to know who owns that site but since Amanda Knox is blogging from it I think that mystery is solved. Previously it was registered to Knox's step-dad but I can't see that now since once the site goes private previous ownership is hidden as well.


I have a website and I am very kindly reminded when it is time to renew the name and pay the host. Is it possible that each time it was up for renewal, they shopped around for the cheapest host? That would explain bouncing around and letting the site expire with one host or another.

Trust Mellas to be looking to cash in on his wife's daughter, and her boyfriend of a couple of weeks, after his wife dropped her life in Seattle to join her daughter in Italy. What a bizarre thought. Truly. I can't imagine having a stressful event, such as being accidentally arrested in a foreign country, and my parents, friends, or acquaintances immediately registering my name as a website.

What was he thinking? That they would be spoof sites? Guess what happened to me: I was accidentally arrested in Italy and so was this guy that I met two weeks ago? Check out our websites? That doesn't make any sense.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
Does anyone happen to know why we have never seen RS's signed statement of November 5th?
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/R ... the_Police


I've been wondering that too. The telegraph has published the contents of the statements, but only Knox's statement is available to read. He makes a statement regarding the order of the arrival of the postal police prior to phoning the Carabinieri. Could it be because his statement was not admitted during trial? Knox's statement was admitted because she voluntarily confirmed the contents of her statement in the days following her arrest.


Last edited by Jester on Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Okay, I'm about to barricade my place up. We've got a rather big storm coming in and I'm right in the path of the worst of it and 80 mph winds have hit just down the road from me and are heading my way. I don't know how well my Internet or power is going to hold up.


Hey Michael,

stay safe and I hope the storm isn't too rough on you :). We don't want you to be "gone with the wind." ;)
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Does someone else find it awkward that Sharlene Martin writes now articles on Groundreport too? I thought these people were professionals?

Groundreport Profile: Martin Literary Management

The only article published by Sharlene Martin (Sollecito's editor of Honor Bound): Knox-Sollecito Congressional Panel Briefing Oct 31 by Experts.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Okay, I'm about to barricade my place up. We've got a rather big storm coming in and I'm right in the path of the worst of it and 80 mph winds have hit just down the road from me and are heading my way. I don't know how well my Internet or power is going to hold up.


Hi Michael,

I hope it isn't too serious. We have wild weather on a regular basis, I know how scary it can be. Stay safe!
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Does someone else find it awkward that Sharlene Martin writes now articles on Groundreport too? I thought these people were professionals?

Groundreport Profile: Martin Literary Management

The only article published by Sharlene Martin (Sollecito's editor of Honor Bound): Knox-Sollecito Congressional Panel Briefing Oct 31 by Experts.


As soon as I see "third trial", I think CBS propaganda. I wonder what they'll be doing in the visitor centre. This sentence is interesting, along the lines of we are the PR team: "Additionally, these experts are available throughout the trial to comment for media reporting on this case as it proceeds." This claim: "This past March 26, 2013, the Italian Supreme Court overturned the Italian jury verdict of innocence and ordered a new trial for both Knox and Sollecito" is blatantly false. The is no new trial, and innocence was not overturned. Instead, the appeal of the guilty verdict was annulled. That is a huge difference. This statement is also suspicious: " The test results now reveal trace 36-i is Amanda Knox’s DNA. Since Amanda Knox prepared food in that apartment, there is little mystery as to how Knox’s DNA got on the kitchen knife." The test results have not yet been presented in court, and we know that Knox said that Sollecito prepared meals for her in the context of discussing how he looked after her. Now all of a sudden he didn't prepare her meals? Why did she then say so in the first place?
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Frankly, as there is no one speaking at the briefing who is actually involved in the case, this can be dismissed as PR and propaganda. That's all it is. There is no depth to it at all. Everyone speaking in that hearing is either paid or a family friend. It's ridiculous.

They are still hoping to bait a contact with influential high ranking friends that could help them in their quest to have Knox's extradition request denied.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Frankly, as there is no one speaking at the briefing who is actually involved in the case, this can be dismissed as PR and propaganda. That's all it is. There is no depth to it at all. Everyone speaking in that hearing is either paid or a family friend. It's ridiculous.

They are still hoping to bait a contact with influential high ranking friends that could help them in their quest to have Knox's extradition request denied.


Perhaps someone that knows about the case should also register to attend the meeting at the visitor centre. Sen. Cantwell may be hosting the meeting, but it is true that private agendas cannot reserve rooms. Since this is simply an information service, perhaps someone representing the Italian interest should attend and be heard? Other than Heavey and a couple of retired FBI employees, who else is invited? What is the purpose of the meeting if there is no Italian representation? It sounds like this meeting is about a "third trial", "innocence overturned", the "unfair" Italian justice system, and other mislieading information. Although an Italian, or British, interest in attending the meeting would draw more attention, without a balanced perspective, the wrong information will be perpetrated. Is this something that Meredith's sister and brother could attend? At least there wouldn't be any more question about the size of the crime scene.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
max wrote:
Does anyone happen to know why we have never seen RS's signed statement of November 5th?
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/R ... the_Police


I've been wondering that too. The telegraph has published the contents of the statements, but only Knox's statement is available to read. He makes a statement regarding the order of the arrival of the postal police prior to phoning the Carabinieri. Could it be because his statement was not admitted during trial? Knox's statement was admitted because she voluntarily confirmed the contents of her statement in the days following her arrest.


Amanda Knox's written statement were allowed as evidence and there are two written statements. We only have the full content of the first written statement but Knox wrote a second one after she was moved to the prison. We know basically what the second one contained but I'm hoping to get the full text.

Knox's 1:45 and 5:45 statements were not admitted to her murder trial but they were allowed for her calunnia charge so they are part of the official record.

Sollecito's statement I don't know what happened. If they were not admissible then only a leak or Sollecito could release them. I know people were challenging Sollecito to release them on Twitter and Ask FM. I don't doubt the Telegraph content. If it was the Daily Mail I would be cautious but the Telegraph I believe is reliable.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

2:40PM GMT 07 Nov 2007

Summary of Statement from Raffaele Sollecito:

Sollecito reportedly told police in an interview that he wanted to change his story.

He said: "I have known Amanda for two weeks. From the night that I met her she started sleeping at my house. On November 1, I woke up at around 11, I had breakfast with Amanda then she went out and I went back to bed.

"I met her at her house again at around one or 2.00pm. Meredith was there too, but she left in a hurry at around 4.00pm without saying where she was going.

"Amanda and I went into town at around 6pm, but I don't remember what we did. We stayed there until around 8.30 or 9pm.

"At 9pm I went home alone and Amanda said that she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends. We said goodbye. I went home, I rolled myself a spliff and made some dinner."

He goes on to say that Amanda returned to his house at around 1am and the couple went to bed, although he couldn't remember if they had sex.

He said she got up the next morning and went home for a shower at around 10.30am.

"When she went off Amanda took an empty plastic bag, telling me it was for dirty washing. She came back around half past eleven and I remember she changed her clothes."

At this point, he says Amanda told him she was worried.

"She told me that when she went back home she found the door wide open and traces of blood in the little bathroom. She asked me if it sounded strange to me. I answered that it did and I advised her to call her housemates. She said she had called Filomena (another housemate), but that Meredith wasn't answering."

He said the two went back to the house together.

"She opened the door with her keys and I went in. I noticed that Filomena's door was wide open and there was broken glass on the floor and the room was in a mess. Amanda's door was open but it was tidy. Then I went towards Meredith's door and saw that it was locked.

"I looked to see if it was true what Amanda had told me about the blood in the bathroom and I noticed drops of blood in the sink, while on the mat there was something strange - a mixture of blood and water, while the rest of the bathroom was clean.

"I was asking myself what could have happened and I went out to see if I could get in through Meredith's window. I tried to break down the door but I couldn't and so I decided to call my sister to get some advice because she is a police lieutenant.

"She told me to call 121 (the Italian emergency number) but in the meantime the postal police arrived.

"In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn't think about the inconsistencies."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -case.html
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Frankly, as there is no one speaking at the briefing who is actually involved in the case, this can be dismissed as PR and propaganda. That's all it is. There is no depth to it at all. Everyone speaking in that hearing is either paid or a family friend. It's ridiculous.

They are still hoping to bait a contact with influential high ranking friends that could help them in their quest to have Knox's extradition request denied.


This is not how you get anyone influential to pay attention. The briefing which is now just a meet and greet is just going to be them standing around hoping an intern shows up to pick up a handout. These things are held in that underground space that connects the congressional library and congress. It is in the same area as where you'd go to buy souvenirs if you're a tourist going to the capital. Nobody ever attends these things. It is just something you do so that it looks like you're doing something.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
Frankly, as there is no one speaking at the briefing who is actually involved in the case, this can be dismissed as PR and propaganda. That's all it is. There is no depth to it at all. Everyone speaking in that hearing is either paid or a family friend. It's ridiculous.

They are still hoping to bait a contact with influential high ranking friends that could help them in their quest to have Knox's extradition request denied.


This is not how you get anyone influential to pay attention. The briefing which is now just a meet and greet is just going to be them standing around hoping an intern shows up to pick up a handout. These things are held in that underground space that connects the congressional library and congress. It is in the same area as where you'd go to buy souvenirs if you're a tourist going to the capital. Nobody ever attends these things. It is just something you do so that it looks like you're doing something.


Booked into the Visitor Centre just didn't look right in terms of a congressional hearing.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Frankly, as there is no one speaking at the briefing who is actually involved in the case, this can be dismissed as PR and propaganda. That's all it is. There is no depth to it at all. Everyone speaking in that hearing is either paid or a family friend. It's ridiculous.

They are still hoping to bait a contact with influential high ranking friends that could help them in their quest to have Knox's extradition request denied.


Perhaps someone that knows about the case should also register to attend the meeting at the visitor centre. Sen. Cantwell may be hosting the meeting, but it is true that private agendas cannot reserve rooms. Since this is simply an information service, perhaps someone representing the Italian interest should attend and be heard? Other than Heavey and a couple of retired FBI employees, who else is invited? What is the purpose of the meeting if there is no Italian representation? It sounds like this meeting is about a "third trial", "innocence overturned", the "unfair" Italian justice system, and other mislieading information. Although an Italian, or British, interest in attending the meeting would draw more attention, without a balanced perspective, the wrong information will be perpetrated. Is this something that Meredith's sister and brother could attend? At least there wouldn't be any more question about the size of the crime scene.


Everyone is invited but no one goes. The Groupies are making it sound like the three stooges are going to address congress and that is nothing like what this is. All that is going to happen is that they have a room in the visitor's center. That they are there will be a line in e-mails that go out to staffers announcing all the stuff that is happening that day in the capital. It is very rare that any anyone that matters shows up. If someone thinks a topic is interesting they will send a staffer to get information. For a briefing on Knox I'd expect the only people who will show up are connected to Cantwell or Smith. The three of them will stand around. Moore will embellish stories from his glory days. Then they will leave.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Frankly, as there is no one speaking at the briefing who is actually involved in the case, this can be dismissed as PR and propaganda. That's all it is. There is no depth to it at all. Everyone speaking in that hearing is either paid or a family friend. It's ridiculous.

They are still hoping to bait a contact with influential high ranking friends that could help them in their quest to have Knox's extradition request denied.


Perhaps someone that knows about the case should also register to attend the meeting at the visitor centre. Sen. Cantwell may be hosting the meeting, but it is true that private agendas cannot reserve rooms. Since this is simply an information service, perhaps someone representing the Italian interest should attend and be heard? Other than Heavey and a couple of retired FBI employees, who else is invited? What is the purpose of the meeting if there is no Italian representation? It sounds like this meeting is about a "third trial", "innocence overturned", the "unfair" Italian justice system, and other mislieading information. Although an Italian, or British, interest in attending the meeting would draw more attention, without a balanced perspective, the wrong information will be perpetrated. Is this something that Meredith's sister and brother could attend? At least there wouldn't be any more question about the size of the crime scene.


Everyone is invited but no one goes. The Groupies are making it sound like the three stooges are going to address congress and that is nothing like what this is. All that is going to happen is that they have a room in the visitor's center. That they are there will be a line in e-mails that go out to staffers announcing all the stuff that is happening that day in the capital. It is very rare that any anyone that matters shows up. If someone thinks a topic is interesting they will send a staffer to get information. For a briefing on Knox I'd expect the only people who will show up are connected to Cantwell or Smith. The three of them will stand around. Moore will embellish stories from his glory days. Then they will leave.


It sounds like the only way they can attract attention is to put on a really good, free lunch.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I wonder if Knox's $3.2 million dollars can afford caviar for the senator's staffers. She doesn't want to spend money to pay her debt to Patrick Lumumba. Can she spring for lunch, or this "congressional hearing" just another boring powerpoint presentation from a retired trio of Viagra infused, old men?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Didn't Knox like Feist? This one reminds me of Hitler, repetitive as it may be.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Okay, I'm about to barricade my place up. We've got a rather big storm coming in and I'm right in the path of the worst of it and 80 mph winds have hit just down the road from me and are heading my way. I don't know how well my Internet or power is going to hold up.


Only after converting to km did I realise just how heavy that is

128.74 km per hour

But winds of 177.02 kmp were recorded yesterday, I hope none of it heads my way

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I, too, am appalled by Knox’s “tribute to Meredith” on her new website (created by Marriott & Co.?) Still, I'm not worried in the sense that justice will eventually catch up with both Knox and Sollecito; it always does. Let Knox obtain a degree in creative writing at the age of 27; she'll have plenty of time to write her future memoirs and letters to her unborn children, sitting in her prison cell, and then we'll see how good her writing is, without the help of a "collaborator".

I also hope that the media stop paying any attention to Knox and her fate if she is re-convicted and sent back to jail. Trying to predict the future (a bit), I see Knox hitting rock bottom at the age of 30, when Italy's extradition request is granted (unfortunately, it may take years to extradite her.) She'll probably get 20+ years and serve ~10 for murder. Somehow I can't see her living past her 40th birthday. The mental and physiological strain posed by lying and deceiving is probably starting to take its toll right now - look at her skin, for example. Maintaining an existence of falsehood requires a lot of energy, backtracking, and yes, eyes looking over the shoulder to check if something suspicious fell off the back of the lying bus of her life. I was spellbound while watching her being interviewed by Linda Byron, at how delusional she still is to a great extent, thinking that she will be acquitted again. That she could keep up this pace of deceit, attack honest prosecutors and somehow land on her feet again and again is stunning.

Good catch by Bedelia over at .org re: Knox's facial micro-expressions while saying "I did not kill Meredith" (@05:10 min, Part 3 of the King5 interview)

Attachment:
Knox - I did not kill Merdith.png


Here's a collage I've made from two screen shots @05:13 and @05:14:

Attachment:
Knox in King5 interview at 5min 13 sec 5min 14 sec I did not kill Meredith.jpg


It's indeed very inappropriate to smile while being interviewed about the death of "her friend." But that's what most murderers do, apparently.

This link to a video on Youtube was posted a long while ago under a video clip of one of Knox's numerous interviews (I can't remember now, which one it was). Fast forward to 14:50 min where Diane Downs, who murdered her own children, talks about their agony and injuries with a weird smile on her lips: really insane. Looks like Amanda Knox is going mad, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6vDLq64gE



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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I know this video has been posted on .org before,

'Why do killers speak out' - worth watching again.

(They are all smiling.)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15l9HQgAk4M
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nice! Behavioral analysis is ever more popular as a job skill.

Knox will become more noisy. The science of recognizing deception with the art of recognizing a lie? What does that say about the truth?
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

That's certainly an unusual set of expressions for someone remembering her murdered roommate ... a "friend".

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:

She'll probably get 20+ years and serve ~10 for murder.


____________________________________________________________________________



1) Anyone who causes the death of a man/woman is punished by imprisonment not less than twenty-one years.

2) Italian Penal Code: Art. 577. [Murder with] Other aggravating circumstances. Life Imprisonment

= per·pet·u·al (pr-pch-l)
adj.
1. Lasting for eternity.

2. Continuing or lasting for an indefinitely long time

______________________________________________________________________________

If given life sentence, parole only possible after serving 26 years in prison.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
I know this video has been posted on .org before,

'Why do killers speak out' - worth watching again.

(They are all smiling.)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15l9HQgAk4M



Petersen does exactly the same closing of eyes as if to ask for sympathy that Knox does, as if in deep hurt then upon opening, there's none of that hurt = all an act = all on cue.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
I wonder if Knox's $3.2 million dollars can afford caviar for the senator's staffers. She doesn't want to spend money to pay her debt to Patrick Lumumba. Can she spring for lunch, or this "congressional hearing" just another boring powerpoint presentation from a retired trio of Viagra infused, old men?



The reason she has not paid Patrick is because she refuses to admit any guilt at all, though found guilty she wishes to stick to the it was the fault of the government line, they forced me to accuse Patrick, but I understand him and why he is guilty of doing that to me, I forgive him but I'm not admitting any guilt and therefore sorry but I am not paying you dear friend Patrick.

I went to the store I bought bleach and some chocolate, went home washed myself up with the bleach, then thought of my friends, so many let me see, oh yes, I remember Patrick was my friend, I was closest to him, I know he must care about me, he only did what he did to me because the cops made him do it, that's why I don't blame him.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I am at this moment hearing wind blowing up, better look into that.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I have posted the entire Italian Penal Code in the legal matters section. It's in Italian, but you can select parts of it to translate automatically which sometimes gives you an idea of the content/meaning.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Note: In British English ''judgement'' but in legal matters mostly spelt without the E = judgment.

Note: The wording adopted by English speaking reporters = fast track (trial) instead of abbreviated procedure/hearing/process is incorrect.
This is because within these Italian concepts there are faster procedures than the abbreviated procedure, so this means according to the logic of fast track, the a) immediate and b) direct procedures would need to be called fast-fast-track, and fast-fast-fast-track, which is ridiculously incorrect.
Funny how the reporters thinking they are so clever to use such a convenient sounding wording show: a. that they are thoroughly uninformed
b. they have carried out no research at all
c. have thus no idea what they are talking about and
d. have all copied someone else, somewhere along the line, someone who started using that wording.



The abbreviated procedure is not EVEN a trial since the defendant on agreeing to take this option gets no chance to say anything nor to be cross-examined or have anyone else cross-examined and agrees to accept what the judge makes of it all on the basis of evidence entered. This is why Guede got his sentence reduction, it is a fixed rate (one third reduction), and Knox and Sollecito could have been given it too, but they refused the option because they have tried to get away with everything.


The Italian sequence of legal processes/procedures A to Z, from preliminary hearing through to final hearing.

1) Preliminary hearing = Titolo IX: Udienza preliminare
_______________________________________________________________________________
Special procedures, one of which can be used after the preliminary hearing:

2) Abbreviated procedure = Titolo I: Giudizio abbreviato (that Guede accepted)

3) Application of the penalty at the request of the parties = Titolo II: Applicazione della pena su richiesta delle parti

4) Direct procedure = Titolo III: Giudizio direttissimo

5) Immediate procedure = Titolo IV: Giudizio immediato

6) Procedure by Decree = Titolo V: Procedimento per decreto
_______________________________________________________________________________

7) Trial

8) Judgment

9) Appeal

_______________________________________________________________________________

All of which is part of a single trial.

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Last edited by zorba on Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Guermantes wrote:
Hey Michael,

stay safe and I hope the storm isn't too rough on you :). We don't want you to be "gone with the wind." ;)


and:

Nell wrote:
Hi Michael,

I hope it isn't too serious. We have wild weather on a regular basis, I know how scary it can be. Stay safe!



Thanks guys!!! Fortunately, it didn't turn out to be quite as big as it was being billed to us the last few days. I was sort of expecting something approaching the severity of the Great Storm of 1987, but it was nothing like that. A few thousand homes have lost power, but I'm not one of them. Anyway, the storm has passed and while a bit blustery still, it's now a beautiful day outside :)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Raff has already served 4 years of any sentence if found guilty. Amanda has served none of a sentence for crimes against Meredith.

Right?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Nell wrote:
Frankly, as there is no one speaking at the briefing who is actually involved in the case, this can be dismissed as PR and propaganda. That's all it is. There is no depth to it at all. Everyone speaking in that hearing is either paid or a family friend. It's ridiculous.

They are still hoping to bait a contact with influential high ranking friends that could help them in their quest to have Knox's extradition request denied.


Perhaps someone that knows about the case should also register to attend the meeting at the visitor centre. Sen. Cantwell may be hosting the meeting, but it is true that private agendas cannot reserve rooms. Since this is simply an information service, perhaps someone representing the Italian interest should attend and be heard? Other than Heavey and a couple of retired FBI employees, who else is invited? What is the purpose of the meeting if there is no Italian representation? It sounds like this meeting is about a "third trial", "innocence overturned", the "unfair" Italian justice system, and other mislieading information. Although an Italian, or British, interest in attending the meeting would draw more attention, without a balanced perspective, the wrong information will be perpetrated. Is this something that Meredith's sister and brother could attend? At least there wouldn't be any more question about the size of the crime scene.



No, that would only lend it credibility when it has none. It is merely a publicity stunt, nothing more.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Thanks guys!!! Fortunately, it didn't turn out to be quite as big as it was being billed to us the last few days. I was sort of expecting something approaching the severity of the Great Storm of 1987, but it was nothing like that. A few thousand homes have lost power, but I'm not one of them. Anyway, the storm has passed and while a bit blustery still, it's now a beautiful day outside :)


I was born and raised in the Texas Gulf Coast area. Experienced lots of hurricanes. Very scary. Now, I live in what's referred to as 'Tornado Alley' of the US. Very scary, too.

Glad you're safe and sound.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Emerald wrote:
Raff has already served 4 years of any sentence if found guilty. Amanda has served none of a sentence for crimes against Meredith.

Right?



Hi Emerald. Yes, Raffaele will have served 4 years of his sentence. Knox will have served one year of it (since three were for the calunnia, that leaves one served for the other offences).

However, it's also worth remembering, that Knox also faces another charge of calunnia which could result in even more time added on. Both Sollecito and Knox also face some defamation charges, so those could add more on in terms of compensation and costs owed.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Emerald wrote:
Michael wrote:
Thanks guys!!! Fortunately, it didn't turn out to be quite as big as it was being billed to us the last few days. I was sort of expecting something approaching the severity of the Great Storm of 1987, but it was nothing like that. A few thousand homes have lost power, but I'm not one of them. Anyway, the storm has passed and while a bit blustery still, it's now a beautiful day outside :)


I was born and raised in the Texas Gulf Coast area. Experienced lots of hurricanes. Very scary. Now, I live in what's referred to as 'Tornado Alley' of the US. Very scary, too.

Glad you're safe and sound.


Thanks, Emerald. We can't have hurricanes here. What we had here was a cyclone, apparently. We also do get tornados, but they are generally very small and weak (the kind that take off a few roof tiles at worst) compared to the monsters you get over there. Those aren't funny at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Knox's 1:45 and 5:45 statements were not admitted to her murder trial but they were allowed for her calunnia charge so they are part of the official record.


Actually, they were also admitted to the murder charge. You're right, it was the calunnia that admitted them, but it was that pesky little aggravating circumstance of "In Continuation" that allowed them in connection to the murder itself. However, they were given this strange quasi-legal status where they could be referred to during the trial, but not directly read out in court.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Does someone else find it awkward that Sharlene Martin writes now articles on Groundreport too? I thought these people were professionals?

Groundreport Profile: Martin Literary Management

The only article published by Sharlene Martin (Sollecito's editor of Honor Bound): Knox-Sollecito Congressional Panel Briefing Oct 31 by Experts.


It's a means for her to, by extension of these activities, sell more copies of Raffaele's book. She gets a percentage ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm a bit confused.

This is a new appeal hearing, but can all evidence be considered or just that allowed in the initial trial? There was some evidence excluded in initial pretrial.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The whole evidence file can be considered. However, what is permitted to be "discussed" and directly examined by the court, is fully at Judge Nencini's discretion.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

When the ruling came for the retrial, Amanda's PR team went into 'double jeopardy' overdrive. That must not have been working well, because I haven't seen anything about it in the press.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
The whole evidence file can be considered. However, what is permitted to be "discussed" and directly examined by the court, is fully at Judge Nencini's discretion.


IMO, every little inkling of evidence should be considered this time.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
McCann discussions are not allowed on this forum but that case gave me somewhat of an understanding how people can end up supporting the Knox family. IMO, it has a lot to do with where you come from, what media you read/watch, who do you trust, a basic understanding of the evidence/probabilities, etc. I am sure, there are many more little factors on what people base there opinion.

All we can do is watch, wonder, hope and learn.

Madeleine McCann Suspect E-Fit 'Produced By Former Spies In 2008 And Suppressed By Parents'



Actually, I will allow it during quiet periods, HOWEVER, I reserve the right for the staff to hit the "pause" button on any such discussion at their discretion, should it be felt it is taking over the main discussion too much. Moreover, that case (and any other) can be discussed without fear of being paused, in any of the board's two off-topic subforums. But, I do request that members take into account that board rules still apply to such discussions, whether they be here in the main thread or the off-topic subforums, and to take reasonable care that they don't stray into libel territory. That means that any potentially libelous allegations must be supported with cites and evidence, or expressed clearly as merely personal opinions. The staff will enforce this to the letter, since we are less familiar with that case then we are with the Kercher case.

On a side note, I do feel there are certain similarities with the McCann case to the Kercher case and as such, it is less off-topic in my view, then perhaps it once was.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The Secret U.S. Forensic Defense of Amanda Knox

Andrea Vogt


THE FREELANCE DESK

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
The Secret U.S. Forensic Defense of Amanda Knox

Andrea Vogt


THE FREELANCE DESK


I already said this over at .org but we should start spreading that story to people in Idaho who are responsible for public governance.

Here is a list of newspapers for a start http://www.usnpl.com/idnews.php
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
The Secret U.S. Forensic Defense of Amanda Knox

Andrea Vogt


THE FREELANCE DESK

Ah, just when I thought I heard them all....Knox is an Idahoan trade secret... :roll:
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
The Secret U.S. Forensic Defense of Amanda Knox

Andrea Vogt


THE FREELANCE DESK



I'm really pleased to see her really taking the trouble to delve more deeply, there is such a shortage of people in mainstream media reporting anything like accurate stuff.

So this man is just like Vecchiotti, who somehow declared, conveniently that the nephew of her former university mentor, was dead, meaning, police would stop searching for him, he was spotted by several people in Rome alive after her DNA examination; someone certainly seemed to know who would be bendable when seeking her out.

Mc is right, it needs lots of talking about, reporting.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -Prepares for life on run!   

AK attempts to leverage her 'commercial brand' in effort to earn $$$ for possible life on the run:

***DISCLAIMERS***

* List is solely intended for those easily amused and entertained. Items listed are not really available.
* Meaningful for those who are familiar with the murder of Meredith Kercher case, as well as aware of the many disgusting antics of AK.
* Following list compiled by someone who strongly dislikes AK. No disrespect intended towards the lovely Meredith and the Kerchers. Disrespect definitely intended towards AK
* List is PG rated, but those easily offended please scroll by.

FOR SALE:

1) Framed and autographed drawing of "Hand of Amanda" Multi-colored tracing of AK's own hand w/caption: "Hold my hand while I fight this injustice."

2) Custom ring tones or messages recorded by AK. Suggested messages: "They see evil in me." "They called me a stupid liar." "I did not kill my friend."

3) Online sing-alongs w/AK. AK sings her favorite Italian songs or Beatles songs in Italian.
Words of songs appear onscreen with an animated bouncing smilie hopping rhythmically on top of each syllable as AK sings it -- to help you monolingual Americans with pronunciation.

4) AK teaches conversational Italian online, including exaggerated accent and extreme gesticulating. Certificate of Completion signed by AK herself.

5) AK doing stand-up comedy routines for on-demand viewing; featuring:
- How to pick up a guy in ten minutes, and get him in bed in under two hours
- Why I don't like British girls -- they think they're better than me
- Outrageous things Italian police, prosecutors, judges, and the entire population of Italy, will do to convict an American college girl of murder for absolutely no reason

6) Photo of AK holding up a sign with anything you want printed on it. Available online or printed, autographed by AK and shipped to you. WARNING: will not honor requests to put on sign any words to the effect that AK is, in any way, responsible for murder of Meredith Kercher.

7) Bid on an evening out with AK! AK plans evening, you pay! For those who want to be her next victim.

8) Happy Birthday to You! HB song recorded by AK, in her powerful voice, especially for you, singing your name or nickname while AK accompanies herself on guitar. For those who desire to appear to be 'close' to a provisionally convicted murder suspect.

9) AK's 'How-to' guides.

- How to annoy and drive away absolutely anybody!
- How to live with a quirky roommate and survive.
- How to relieve stress and lessen a raging case of herpes virus. (aka: If only those haters would 'get over' this murder I committed)
- How to make a great classic risotto recipe. (20-page booklet containing only one sentence mid-page halfway in -- "Get an emotionally shallow, knives & porn loving, easily impressed, Italian guy to make it for you!"
- How to persuade someone you just met to participate in a vicious prank

10) A special assortment of holiday themed German pastries hand-selected by AK and featuring a holiday card signed by AK. Card cover is of a smiling AK dressed as a big present and standing between her smiling biological parents. If the person ordering this item has a Jewish surname, a solid white chocolate bar with the words: "My people killed your people" will be featured at center of assortment. AK - the gift that keeps on giving.

11) Private label AK wine, including promotional brochure of a glassy-eyed, smiling, clearly very high AK, hand selecting grapes and cutting the bunches from vines with her OWN sharp knife.

12) Lipstick 'Kiss' from AK on white hand embroidered handkerchief, guaranteed to be identical to 'gift' from Raffele Sollecito to Lucia/Luciano Aviello as thanks to s/he for false witness testimony.

Sorry mods, I couldn't resist, 'The 411' on .org is such an inspiration! d-))
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Italian crime blog

http://www.crimeblog.it/categoria/delitto-di-perugia

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

From Andrea Vogt's latest article


THE RHOADES ERROR: IDAHO

Hampikian is a prestigious professor with an unquestionably impressive CV, but a review of the cases he’s worked on also reveals a few high-profile mistakes. In Rhoades v. Arave, Hampikian was bought in in 2005 as a consultant for Paul Ezra Rhoades, convicted for the shooting death of Stacy Baldwin, Susan Michelbacher and Nolan Haddon in eastern Idaho in 1987. In 2005, Rhoades’ defense hired Hampikian to review an 18-year-old FBI report, in hopes of casting doubt on its reliability. Hampikian concluded that the old FBI report excluded Rhoades as the murderer. But a U.S. District Court later found that in his affidavit to the court Hampikian had misread one of the swab results, referring to the DNA subtyping as “sub 1-” instead of “sub 1+.” The court asked Hampikian to explain, and Hampikian submitted a new affidavit admitting the mistake, calling it a typographical error. The court pointed out that even if the state’s DNA evidence were eliminated, the other incriminating evidence still remained strong. In a 34 page ruling, the petition for writ of Habeas Corpus was denied. Rhoades was executed in Idaho by lethal injection in Nov. 2011. Ref: Rhoades v. Arave (CV 93-0156-S-EJL), March 28, 2007.

THE CHILD RAPE CASE: OHIO

In an Ohio case (State vs. Roberts) Hampikian conducted a DNA test on behalf of Bradley Roberts, who was appealing the conviction of 1993 kidnapping and rape of a 10-year-old girl in Sylvania, Ohio. The case was unsolved for many years, although evidence was collected. In early 2010, Sylvania detectives sent the rape kit evidence for analysis, citing advances in technology. A match came back to Roberts, whose DNA had been collected and entered into a statewide database because of previous convictions. Roberts was convicted. In 2011 his defense hired Hampikian, who argued that the DNA tests were insufficient to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that the appellant had committed the crimes against the victim. The state brought in Casey Agosti, a forensic scientist considered an expert in DNA analysis. Agosti determined the likelihood or someone other than Roberts matching that same DNA profile was one in 1 billion 197 million. The court then wrote: “Hampikian’s opinion letter referencing his interpretation of DNA tests performed by the state is framed with speculative conditions and conjecture. The conclusory opinion letter simply was not exculpatory. As such maintaining that the introduction of the equivocal Hampikian opinion letter would have altered the outcome of the case is likewise conclusory and not persuasive.” Roberts is currently serving a life sentence. Ref: State of Ohio v. Bradley W. Roberts (No. L-11-1159) March 22, 2013.

THE STOCKING STRANGLER CASE: GEORGIA

Hampikian was also hired by the defense of the Stocking Strangler Carlton Gary, who some believe is unjustly on death row in Georgia. Gary was convicted in three of seven rapes and stranglings of Columbus Georgia women in the late 1970s. Though Hampikian consulted for some time for free, in 2010, Gary’s defense team filed a motion asking the court to authorize paying Hampkian $200 an hour for his services (not to exceed $7,500).

Most American universities encourage their professors – especially attention-attracting ones like Hampikian – to do outside consulting, however academic institutions also have specific conflict of interest policies that prohibit institutional resources and labs being used for personal gain. I believe BSU needs to answer a few more questions about its role in this case. If the research was public and not-for-profit, then emails and written correspondence should be made available. If it was private, then how does it mesh with the universities’ ethics guidelines?

This point has little to do with the guilt or innocence of Amanda Knox – there is an appeal trial underway and even once there is a decision, Italy’s highest court will still have to review it. The courts may or may not agree with Mr. Hampikian’s specific assertions about the forensics in the case.

However the fact that BSU lawyers interpreted Idaho law in a way to avoid revealing Hampikian’s correspondence on the Knox case strikes me as significant.

It raises the following questions: Do U.S. citizens have the right to know if public university resources, labs and funds were used (and how) to aid the defense of a private citizen accused abroad of murder, justly or unjustly? What are the parameters for this kind of advocacy? When should public universities be allowed to come to the aid of those imprisoned at home or abroad, who decides who gets help and who doesn’t, and how transparent should those university efforts be?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I think that for anyone who closely follows this case, it's absolutely clear exactly why Hampikian is desperate to block public access to his records and communications concerning the Kercher case!

I mean, who would want it to come out that they've been willfully perverting justice in a murder case? ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... troom.html


Stephanie Kercher wrote in her letter to the appellate court. “The only way our pain and suffering can even begin to ease is by gaining a clearer understanding of the tragic events of November 1st 2007. Nothing will ever bring our beautiful Meredith back and we will always hold her in our hearts and memories, but we need to know what happened and she at least deserves the dignity of truth.”

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I think that for anyone who closely follows this case, it's absolutely clear exactly why Hampikian is desperate to block public access to his records and communications concerning the Kercher case!

I mean, who would want it to come out that they've been willfully perverting justice in a murder case? ;)



Three inaccurate readings in such serious cases is not nothing.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

This was discussed a while ago, but the Idaho Innocence Project's charitable status mandate was to help people in its own state, Idaho. UW has its own Innocence Project, why didn't they get involved in native person Amanda Knox's case?
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Offline Underhill


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/30/amanda-knox-murder-retrial-begins-in-florence-courtroom.html


Stephanie Kercher wrote in her letter to the appellate court. “The only way our pain and suffering can even begin to ease is by gaining a clearer understanding of the tragic events of November 1st 2007. Nothing will ever bring our beautiful Meredith back and we will always hold her in our hearts and memories, but we need to know what happened and she at least deserves the dignity of truth.”


We've got a translation of the full text at the wiki: http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Stephanie_Kercher%27s_Letter_to_the_Nencini_Appeal :)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
I think that for anyone who closely follows this case, it's absolutely clear exactly why Hampikian is desperate to block public access to his records and communications concerning the Kercher case!

I mean, who would want it to come out that they've been willfully perverting justice in a murder case? ;)



Three inaccurate readings in such serious cases is not nothing.



I'm not talking about mere "inaccuracies" in this case.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
I think that for anyone who closely follows this case, it's absolutely clear exactly why Hampikian is desperate to block public access to his records and communications concerning the Kercher case!

I mean, who would want it to come out that they've been willfully perverting justice in a murder case? ;)



Three inaccurate readings in such serious cases is not nothing.



I'm not talking about mere "inaccuracies" in this case.


I am though

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Then I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should clarify.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:01 pm   Post subject: ADMINISTRATOR NOTE   

Administrator Note:

I have reset the default board time to GMT. If your board time is incorrect for your time zone, please adjust it via your User Control Panel.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A copy of the Boise FOIA denial letter: http://t.co/MRBBqoSV7e

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Then I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should clarify.

i thought that would be obvious Michael, 3 cases that were all wrong because of inaccurate analyses, therefore what is such a man's credibility(?) not a question, the answer is pretty much zero.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Underhill wrote:
zorba wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/30/amanda-knox-murder-retrial-begins-in-florence-courtroom.html


Stephanie Kercher wrote in her letter to the appellate court. “The only way our pain and suffering can even begin to ease is by gaining a clearer understanding of the tragic events of November 1st 2007. Nothing will ever bring our beautiful Meredith back and we will always hold her in our hearts and memories, but we need to know what happened and she at least deserves the dignity of truth.”


We've got a translation of the full text at the wiki: http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Stephanie_Kercher%27s_Letter_to_the_Nencini_Appeal :)



Thanks Underhill, I have actually seen the translation, elsewhere.

When looking at the wiki the other day was pleasantly surprised with how clear it is, and comprehensive. Was also looking at Knox's mother's testimony to translate it, but it's a lot of work so cannot attempt it at the moment.

Her actions in court when it appeared that she and her daughter clashed, was a typical demonstration of how it is really hard to plan everything for court, it's such a shame none of them were foolish enough to testify, yet there is a language problem, deficiency, even with an interpreter, a lawyer cannot show a person up as easily as people all speaking in their own language, the interpreter is always going to miss certain nuances too. When the mother went wrong a lawyer should have been right on it.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
Then I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should clarify.

i thought that would be obvious Michael, 3 cases that were all wrong because of inaccurate analyses, therefore what is such a man's credibility(?) not a question, the answer is pretty much zero.


I would think that the thing of more importance now, is potential revelations as to Hampikian's perverting the course of justice in the Meredith Kercher case by supplying materials to the supposed independent experts V & C, or/and actually writing their report for them. Corruption in this case trumps mere mistakes and incompetence in previous cases.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

As mentioned before: from the Idaho Innocence Project website: http://innocenceproject.boisestate.edu/

Quote:
The Idaho Innocence Project’s mission is to identify, investigate and pursue claims of wrongful conviction and actual innocence made by Idaho inmates. The IIP is committed to helping free those men and women who are suffering false imprisonment. Working with key stakeholders to advance criminal justice reforms, the Project continually seeks to educate policymakers, law enforcement officials and the greater public about the reality of wrongful convictions.


One can see why the University is trying to hush up their advocacy for Amanda Knox. Too bad, their own magazine boasted about it, like a Gogerty-Mariott brochure. Wasn't the University of Washington School of Law Innocence Project not good enough for Herself?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
Then I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should clarify.

i thought that would be obvious Michael, 3 cases that were all wrong because of inaccurate analyses, therefore what is such a man's credibility(?) not a question, the answer is pretty much zero.


I would think that the thing of more importance now, is potential revelations as to Hampikian's perverting the course of justice in the Meredith Kercher case by supplying materials to the supposed independent experts V & C, or/and actually writing their report for them. Corruption in this case trumps mere mistakes and incompetence in previous cases.



If it can be proved.
Doubt that Vecchiotti and colleague are going to reveal anything.
A start is the fact info is available as to how this man is not some kind of brilliant genius but someone who also ignores certain guidelines, just like V&C did, just like Hellmann did too, whereas Knox's enablers always try to present these people like they are superior to everyone else with inpeccable careers.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
Frankly, as there is no one speaking at the briefing who is actually involved in the case, this can be dismissed as PR and propaganda. That's all it is. There is no depth to it at all. Everyone speaking in that hearing is either paid or a family friend. It's ridiculous.

They are still hoping to bait a contact with influential high ranking friends that could help them in their quest to have Knox's extradition request denied.


This is not how you get anyone influential to pay attention. The briefing which is now just a meet and greet is just going to be them standing around hoping an intern shows up to pick up a handout. These things are held in that underground space that connects the congressional library and congress. It is in the same area as where you'd go to buy souvenirs if you're a tourist going to the capital. Nobody ever attends these things. It is just something you do so that it looks like you're doing something.


Booked into the Visitor Centre just didn't look right in terms of a congressional hearing.


Holy crap! Just saw a stupid headline from ABC News. Talk about misinformation. And of course, the FOAKers won't represent the head count of those who show for this 'event' honestly. Really disgusting bunch!

ABC News

Congress to Convene Hearing on Amanda Knox
By Nicki Rossoll
Oct 28, 2013 5:09pm

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/congress-to-convene-hearing-on-amanda-knox/
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Does anybody know if Vecchioti & co are being investigated from the Italian end? It seems more than a little odd that this character with one highly questionable 'blunder' on their record was appointed in the first place.

If Daffy Raffy does try to outrun the publicity that he has himself courted and try to disappear into a bolthole somewhere, does anybody know the potential sentence that he would add for trying to evade justice?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Barbie Nadeau reported that the Kerchers may request a judicial review after the process has finished.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -Prepares for life on run!   

Slade wrote:
AK attempts to leverage her 'commercial brand' in effort to earn $$$ for possible life on the run:

***DISCLAIMERS***

* List is solely intended for those easily amused and entertained. Items listed are not really available.
* Meaningful for those who are familiar with the murder of Meredith Kercher case, as well as aware of the many disgusting antics of AK.
* Following list compiled by someone who strongly dislikes AK. No disrespect intended towards the lovely Meredith and the Kerchers. Disrespect definitely intended towards AK
* List is PG rated, but those easily offended please scroll by.

FOR SALE:

1) Framed and autographed drawing of "Hand of Amanda" Multi-colored tracing of AK's own hand w/caption: "Hold my hand while I fight this injustice."

2) Custom ring tones or messages recorded by AK. Suggested messages: "They see evil in me." "They called me a stupid liar." "I did not kill my friend."

3) Online sing-alongs w/AK. AK sings her favorite Italian songs or Beatles songs in Italian.
Words of songs appear onscreen with an animated bouncing smilie hopping rhythmically on top of each syllable as AK sings it -- to help you monolingual Americans with pronunciation.

4) AK teaches conversational Italian online, including exaggerated accent and extreme gesticulating. Certificate of Completion signed by AK herself.

5) AK doing stand-up comedy routines for on-demand viewing; featuring:
- How to pick up a guy in ten minutes, and get him in bed in under two hours
- Why I don't like British girls -- they think they're better than me
- Outrageous things Italian police, prosecutors, judges, and the entire population of Italy, will do to convict an American college girl of murder for absolutely no reason

6) Photo of AK holding up a sign with anything you want printed on it. Available online or printed, autographed by AK and shipped to you. WARNING: will not honor requests to put on sign any words to the effect that AK is, in any way, responsible for murder of Meredith Kercher.

7) Bid on an evening out with AK! AK plans evening, you pay! For those who want to be her next victim.

8) Happy Birthday to You! HB song recorded by AK, in her powerful voice, especially for you, singing your name or nickname while AK accompanies herself on guitar. For those who desire to appear to be 'close' to a provisionally convicted murder suspect.

9) AK's 'How-to' guides.

- How to annoy and drive away absolutely anybody!
- How to live with a quirky roommate and survive.
- How to relieve stress and lessen a raging case of herpes virus. (aka: If only those haters would 'get over' this murder I committed)
- How to make a great classic risotto recipe. (20-page booklet containing only one sentence mid-page halfway in -- "Get an emotionally shallow, knives & porn loving, easily impressed, Italian guy to make it for you!"
- How to persuade someone you just met to participate in a vicious prank

10) A special assortment of holiday themed German pastries hand-selected by AK and featuring a holiday card signed by AK. Card cover is of a smiling AK dressed as a big present and standing between her smiling biological parents. If the person ordering this item has a Jewish surname, a solid white chocolate bar with the words: "My people killed your people" will be featured at center of assortment. AK - the gift that keeps on giving.

11) Private label AK wine, including promotional brochure of a glassy-eyed, smiling, clearly very high AK, hand selecting grapes and cutting the bunches from vines with her OWN sharp knife.

12) Lipstick 'Kiss' from AK on white hand embroidered handkerchief, guaranteed to be identical to 'gift' from Raffele Sollecito to Lucia/Luciano Aviello as thanks to s/he for false witness testimony.

Sorry mods, I couldn't resist, 'The 411' on .org is such an inspiration! d-))


This is an extensive list and I laughed reading through it, but then I remembered IA/IIP member geebee stating he had actually purchased a signed sketch or painting from convicted murderer Jodi Arias, who he believes to be innocent, and that smile was wiped of my face instantly.

Does anyone still remember those stickers sold on ebay in support of Amanda Knox that said "Boycott Italy"?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
I think that for anyone who closely follows this case, it's absolutely clear exactly why Hampikian is desperate to block public access to his records and communications concerning the Kercher case!

I mean, who would want it to come out that they've been willfully perverting justice in a murder case? ;)



Three inaccurate readings in such serious cases is not nothing.


Greg Hampikian is not the only one. Carla Vecchiotti has a list of high profile failings too.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
This was discussed a while ago, but the Idaho Innocence Project's charitable status mandate was to help people in its own state, Idaho. UW has its own Innocence Project, why didn't they get involved in native person Amanda Knox's case?


Because Greg Hampikian is a gun for hire and he is from Idaho.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Eye On Boise
BSU claims records of professor’s work on Amanda Knox case are trade secrets

Posted by Betsy
Oct. 28, 2013 9:36 a.m.



THE SPOKESMAN-REVIEW

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
Then I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should clarify.

i thought that would be obvious Michael, 3 cases that were all wrong because of inaccurate analyses, therefore what is such a man's credibility(?) not a question, the answer is pretty much zero.


Greg Hampikian wasn't wrong because of some inaccuracies. He deliberately casts doubt in any case you like as long as he gets media exposure to boost his profile.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
Then I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should clarify.

i thought that would be obvious Michael, 3 cases that were all wrong because of inaccurate analyses, therefore what is such a man's credibility(?) not a question, the answer is pretty much zero.


Greg Hampikian wasn't wrong because of some inaccuracies. He deliberately casts doubt in any case you like as long as he gets media exposure to boost his profile.


Yes but whether intentional or not, the result is inaccuracy, as in not correct.
Also, whether he casts doubt in all cases for media coverage is speculative, I don't see how one can make absolutist statements on such things, it is what it is, what it is, is, he is documented as having 3 cases in which he acted in one way or another, incorrectly, his analyses were incorrect. I'm afraid to say I don't think you can ascertain that he does it in every case, maybe he does maybe he doesn't, no matter how bad he is, or you think he is, there is evidence for 3 cases, that is certainly a strong indicator of what he is all about, combined with what he has been up to with Meredith's case.

So my conclusion is, that he was wrong because of inaccuracies, intentional or not.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
I think that for anyone who closely follows this case, it's absolutely clear exactly why Hampikian is desperate to block public access to his records and communications concerning the Kercher case!

I mean, who would want it to come out that they've been willfully perverting justice in a murder case? ;)



Three inaccurate readings in such serious cases is not nothing.


Greg Hampikian is not the only one. Carla Vecchiotti has a list of high profile failings too.



I know of one very heavy duty one, all to do with her, very heavy story, if she did protect this guy who was on the run from the police, it's terrible because he was one of three males who kidnapped three girls, one of them was murdered, he came from a well off family, his aunt was Vecchiotti's mentor at university, he was into some nasty stuff. So, if she did try to help that nehphew out by drawing up false reports and DNA analyses, of him, it's no wonder she would be the one to approach for help when trying to pervert the course of justice.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
This was discussed a while ago, but the Idaho Innocence Project's charitable status mandate was to help people in its own state, Idaho. UW has its own Innocence Project, why didn't they get involved in native person Amanda Knox's case?

Because Greg Hampikian is a gun for hire and he is from Idaho.

And so is Andrea Vogt. It is as if it is all meant to be :mrgreen: Even I spent a few years in Idaho. Never been to Boise though. I hope Vogt gets to the bottom of this. Interesting story.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I just had a short exchange on Twitter with a person named Alexis Tereszcuk. She claims TMOMK is not a reliable source for information when she was directed to the court documents.

She also claimed to know "a thing or two about reputable sources".

Her remark made me curious and visiting her profile revealed she works for RadarOnline.

Google her name and Amanda Knox and many articles will come to light that show you all the staged surprise photos that were taken at a time when the Knox/Mellas family had asked for privacy.

The family once said it was the Italian press who haunted Knox while local media respected their wish for privacy, but the reality looks very different. Any paper, local or foreign, can get as many interviews and photos as they want as long as they guarantee positive coverage.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
Then I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should clarify.

i thought that would be obvious Michael, 3 cases that were all wrong because of inaccurate analyses, therefore what is such a man's credibility(?) not a question, the answer is pretty much zero.


Greg Hampikian wasn't wrong because of some inaccuracies. He deliberately casts doubt in any case you like as long as he gets media exposure to boost his profile.


Yes but whether intentional or not, the result is inaccuracy, as in not correct.
Also, whether he casts doubt in all cases for media coverage is speculative, I don't see how one can make absolutist statements on such things, it is what it is, what it is, is, he is documented as having 3 cases in which he acted in one way or another, incorrectly, his analyses were incorrect. I'm afraid to say I don't think you can ascertain that he does it in every case, maybe he does maybe he doesn't, no matter how bad he is, or you think he is, there is evidence for 3 cases, that is certainly a strong indicator of what he is all about, combined with what he has been up to with Meredith's case.

So my conclusion is, that he was wrong because of inaccuracies, intentional or not.


Ok, I will clarify what I meant. I don't believe Greg Hampikian lied or misrepresented evidence deliberately in all the cases he has been involved with.

What I do believe is that he is willing to do that if he is convinced he could succeed. It would give him a higher profile and his services would be in higher demand.

I hope I explained my position now to everyone's satisfaction.

In the case of Amanda Knox, I suspect Greg Hampikian, directly or indirectly, has been in contact with the "independent" expert Carla Vecchiotti and imo he misrepresents the evidence deliberately or to be more exact, he exaggerates and misrepresents the possibility of contamination of all of the DNA evidence implicating Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito and he also falsely downplays the meaning of low copy DNA.

In the end, Greg Hampikian wasn't there when the original DNA tests were performed and those who were didn't raise any alarms. His "professional opinion" is solely based on a selection of documents he was provided with from Amanda Knox's defence.

When Greg Hampikian posed next to Amanda Knox for a photo after her release, he knew exactly what he was doing. If we assume he believes in his own bs than the only thing he can say is that she might have committed the murder, but the evidence isn't strong enough to prove that. Nobody says that about Knox though. They all claim the evidence is proof she wasn't there and that is a lie. The most favourable thing Hampikian could say about Knox is that he doesn't know.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:01 am   Post subject: EX-FBI AGENT STEVE MOORE THREATENS VIOLENCE TO KERCHER LAWYE   

Ex-FBI agent, Steve Moore threatens Kercher family lawyer Francesco Maresca. Twitter 7:12 PM - 26 Oct 13

Quote:
@NJusticAnywhere Thx. I stand by it. Maresca is a mercenary rotter who cares nothing for Meredith. I would have had his head on my wall.


Some of us responded:

Martin Bernier ‏@mortytoad 27 Oct
@Kermittweets @Gman_Moore @Noel_0409 As has Serena Perna. A smear on Maresca and Perna is a smear on Meredith Kercher and her family.

Smacker ‏@Smacker62 27 Oct
@Gman_Moore @NJusticAnywhere what are you? Certainly mercenary....Lock, stock and barrel. Nothing more, nothing less.

Kermit ‏@Kermittweets 15h
@Gman_Moore,are you & #AmandaKnox PR thugs threatening Maresca exercising freely his defense of the Kerchers' interests? @NJusticAnywhere


Naseer Ahmad ‏@manfromatlan 6:08 AM - 28 Oct 13
@Gman_Moore @NJusticAnywhere Threat of violence?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
I know of one very heavy duty one, all to do with her, very heavy story, if she did protect this guy who was on the run from the police, it's terrible because he was one of three males who kidnapped three girls, one of them was murdered, he came from a well off family, his aunt was Vecchiotti's mentor at university, he was into some nasty stuff. So, if she did try to help that nehphew out by drawing up false reports and DNA analyses, of him, it's no wonder she would be the one to approach for help when trying to pervert the course of justice.


Three perpetrators and two victims. One died and one survived the group attack: Massacri Del Circeo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
I know of one very heavy duty one, all to do with her, very heavy story, if she did protect this guy who was on the run from the police, it's terrible because he was one of three males who kidnapped three girls, one of them was murdered, he came from a well off family, his aunt was Vecchiotti's mentor at university, he was into some nasty stuff. So, if she did try to help that nehphew out by drawing up false reports and DNA analyses, of him, it's no wonder she would be the one to approach for help when trying to pervert the course of justice.


Three perpetrators and two victims. One died and one survived the group attack: Massacri Del Circeo


Yeah and now I'm being inaccurate.
There were 3 girls involved.

It was Nadia Campoli and Donatella Colasanti who had met one of the males.

The guy was friendly and arrangements were made to meet again. Nadia happened to be with friends at a funfair and couldn't make it, the guy said to bring someone else and that turned out to be Rosario Lopez who was murdered.

If Nadia had gone she would have suffered either murder or all of the brutality Donatella went through and of course the brutality Rosario suffered too before being murdered.
Horrible story.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I see the FOAKers are boasting about having John Douglas as party to their "briefing to Congress". This is a rather interesting article on why Douglas and his methods are bunk:

Real-life Crackers are 'worthless' at catching serial killers and hamper investigations

Criminal profilers such as portrayed in television's Cracker are no better at catching serial killers than fortune tellers, it was claimed today.

By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent

6:30AM BST 14 Sep 2010



THE TELEGRAPH

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Offline Emerald


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

O/T

Wanted to share a weather site I use to keep up with fellow posters worldwide.

http://www.wunderground.com/
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Offline Emerald


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

At what point is this trial? What is the schedule for the hearings? Seems like majority of the discussion is about Amanda being there or not. I'm just as guilty of the tone, but what's going on in Florence?
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:00 pm   Post subject: Re: EX-FBI AGENT STEVE MOORE THREATENS VIOLENCE TO KERCHER LAWYE   

Ergon wrote:
Ex-FBI agent, Steve Moore threatens Kercher family lawyer Francesco Maresca. Twitter 7:12 PM - 26 Oct 13

Quote:
@NJusticAnywhere Thx. I stand by it. Maresca is a mercenary rotter who cares nothing for Meredith. I would have had his head on my wall.


Steve Moore is as crazy as his wife.
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Offline Underhill


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Emerald wrote:
At what point is this trial? What is the schedule for the hearings? Seems like majority of the discussion is about Amanda being there or not. I'm just as guilty of the tone, but what's going on in Florence?


We try to keep an up-to-date account of the appeal at http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Nencini_Appeal. Court sittings were cancelled for October 23 and 24, and November 7. This leaves planned dates of November 6, 25 and 26.
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Offline Emerald


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Thanks Underhill

Does the trial seem to be moving slowly or at a normal pace for the system in Italy? I'm not making judgement. Trying to understand how the system works.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:52 pm   Post subject: Re: EX-FBI AGENT STEVE MOORE THREATENS VIOLENCE TO KERCHER LAWYE   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Ex-FBI agent, Steve Moore threatens Kercher family lawyer Francesco Maresca. Twitter 7:12 PM - 26 Oct 13

Quote:
@NJusticAnywhere Thx. I stand by it. Maresca is a mercenary rotter who cares nothing for Meredith. I would have had his head on my wall.


Steve Moore is as crazy as his wife.


Hi Tronic,

Let's put it this way, if he really loves and loved the FBI so much, how come he left it --left nearer rather than further away from pension-going age-- to launch into a non-career, like someone with nothing, it's well-known that people who were army folk leave then have few options, his type of work doesn't seem to be much different, like ex-army go into security or something, but what kind of liability was he for the FBI, if he now, basically unemployed, as far as I can see, and scrounging for scraps, acts the way he does? I mean at his age, where in the world would he ever get a look in? Who wants an ex-FBI hanging around, what type of place of employment could give him a job, not many I think, so as is clear the only place he could go was into security too, and he messed that up.

The only person who has been describing people (Knox's lot) as mercenaries is me (and this is typical of them); he takes something that made sense and turns it into complete nonsense.

A lawyer protecting and seeking rights for a family who had their daughter murdered just can never fit into the wording ''mercenary'', a PR firm owner who literally walks over corpses for money, and does not care at all what happened to people, that is a mercenary, anything for money.

About him and his wife: I am guessing that he married her for her brains; he liked having someone to look up to.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Errrr....just saw this tweet from Fox News:


FOX NEWS ‏@fox_breaking 1h
#amandaknox Knox requested appeal against guilty verdict takes a massive hit as DNA tests reveal her and victims DNA on murder weapon.



https://twitter.com/fox_breaking/status ... 3328437248

However, looks to me like this is a spoof account.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Emerald wrote:
Thanks Underhill

Does the trial seem to be moving slowly or at a normal pace for the system in Italy? I'm not making judgement. Trying to understand how the system works.


Frustratingly, it's about normal.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Errrr....just saw this tweet from Fox News:


FOX NEWS ‏@fox_breaking 1h
#amandaknox Knox requested appeal against guilty verdict takes a massive hit as DNA tests reveal her and victims DNA on murder weapon.



https://twitter.com/fox_breaking/status ... 3328437248

I think it is all fake Michael.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yeah, see my original post.

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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
This was discussed a while ago, but the Idaho Innocence Project's charitable status mandate was to help people in its own state, Idaho. UW has its own Innocence Project, why didn't they get involved in native person Amanda Knox's case?


Because Greg Hampikian is a gun for hire and he is from Idaho.


The Idaho Innocence Project also solicits donations. How do they get donations and recognition? Get Hampikian's name associated with a high profile murder suspect like AK.

Nell, I was aware of those horrid drawings available for sale by Jodi Arias; apparently that artwork of hers sold well. JA's defense attorneys used the argument that JA should not be put to death b/c of her talent as an artist -- then it was discovered and disclosed that JA had 'traced' the images she was selling, and she had not drawn them. nnn-))
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I have been reading a lot of McCann news lately, so I came to wonder who would be more sensitive, a dog or Luminol. Guess what. It has been tested :) Dogs beat the blood tests on carpet, but not on smooth surfaces. I bet they would have alerted on those Luminol footprints.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/ ... ?ID=264866
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Slade wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
This was discussed a while ago, but the Idaho Innocence Project's charitable status mandate was to help people in its own state, Idaho. UW has its own Innocence Project, why didn't they get involved in native person Amanda Knox's case?


Because Greg Hampikian is a gun for hire and he is from Idaho.


The Idaho Innocence Project also solicits donations. How do they get donations and recognition? Get Hampikian's name associated with a high profile murder suspect like AK.

Nell, I was aware of those horrid drawings available for sale by Jodi Arias; apparently that artwork of hers sold well. JA's defense attorneys used the argument that JA should not be put to death b/c of her talent as an artist -- then it was discovered and disclosed that JA had 'traced' the images she was selling, and she had not drawn them. nnn-))


He he, now that's funny. I don't think her groupies care if she painted the images or only traced them. IMO they buy them to possess something she has touched. It's that sick.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
I have been reading a lot of McCann news lately, so I came to wonder who would be more sensitive, a dog or Luminol. Guess what. It has been tested :) Dogs beat the blood tests on carpet, but not on smooth surfaces. I bet they would have alerted on those Luminol footprints.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/ ... ?ID=264866


I have not followed the McCann case closely, but from what I understand their daughter disappeared while they were dining out.

If that is true, I am surprised they have any supporters at all. Their children were very little at that time and I have never heard them express remorse for not having taken proper care of their children. Maybe they did and I missed it, as I said, I haven't followed this case closely.

However, the McCann's don't have my sympathy.
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Offline Slade


Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:39 pm

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I see the FOAKers are boasting about having John Douglas as party to their "briefing to Congress". This is a rather interesting article on why Douglas and his methods are bunk:

Real-life Crackers are 'worthless' at catching serial killers and hamper investigations

Criminal profilers such as portrayed in television's Cracker are no better at catching serial killers than fortune tellers, it was claimed today.

By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent

6:30AM BST 14 Sep 2010



THE TELEGRAPH


That is an interesting article. Since the 'profile' is one piece in the investigation, how often has anyone pointed to the 'profile' specifically and claimed that was 'the piece' that identified a suspect, thereby solving the mystery. In the US, when there are widespread notifications during a search for murderers, those LE talking heads often offer a behavioral analysis of the suspect. Their analysis gets me thinking -- wow, that profile describes a sizeable portion of the people I know.
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Slade wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
This was discussed a while ago, but the Idaho Innocence Project's charitable status mandate was to help people in its own state, Idaho. UW has its own Innocence Project, why didn't they get involved in native person Amanda Knox's case?


Because Greg Hampikian is a gun for hire and he is from Idaho.


The Idaho Innocence Project also solicits donations. How do they get donations and recognition? Get Hampikian's name associated with a high profile murder suspect like AK.

Nell, I was aware of those horrid drawings available for sale by Jodi Arias; apparently that artwork of hers sold well. JA's defense attorneys used the argument that JA should not be put to death b/c of her talent as an artist -- then it was discovered and disclosed that JA had 'traced' the images she was selling, and she had not drawn them. nnn-))


He he, now that's funny. I don't think her groupies care if she painted the images or only traced them. IMO they buy them to possess something she has touched. It's that sick.


That is the sickest part of all, isn't it? When I make fun by suggesting money-making schemes for AK, it's really her awful, obsessed supporters I'm making fun of. When there were no notices of AK holding book signings, I offered false sympathy to those of her groupies obsessed with the idea of getting close to their idol, perhaps getting a chance to touch her hand while she handed her autographed book back to them. :mrgreen:
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:54 pm   Post subject: Re: EX-FBI AGENT STEVE MOORE THREATENS VIOLENCE TO KERCHER LAWYE   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Ex-FBI agent, Steve Moore threatens Kercher family lawyer Francesco Maresca. Twitter 7:12 PM - 26 Oct 13

Quote:
@NJusticAnywhere Thx. I stand by it. Maresca is a mercenary rotter who cares nothing for Meredith. I would have had his head on my wall.


Steve Moore is as crazy as his wife.


The wife followed with a tweet about Andrea Vogt "making money off this case" so my reply was that Andrea is a journalist and gets paid for doing her job which some can relate to. But Steve Moore? He's boasting about 'meetings with production companies and congressional hearings/TV appearances.

Mercenary.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Well, I wasn't the only one to use the word mercenary, look at the link to see where Moore copied his vocabulary from, HOW WEAK!!!


search.php?keywords=mercenary&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I see the FOAKers are boasting about having John Douglas as party to their "briefing to Congress". This is a rather interesting article on why Douglas and his methods are bunk:

Real-life Crackers are 'worthless' at catching serial killers and hamper investigations

Criminal profilers such as portrayed in television's Cracker are no better at catching serial killers than fortune tellers, it was claimed today.

By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent

6:30AM BST 14 Sep 2010



THE TELEGRAPH


Have a look at this 7 page article in the New Yorker from November 12, 2007,

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007 ... t_gladwell

Keywords: Criminal Profiling; Federal Bureau of Investigation (F.B.I.); Frauds; Tricks; Douglas, John; Psychics; BTK Killer
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So not long to go until further court non-appearances.

Let's say, proceedings.

I should imagine Mr Sollecito has meantime made yet another move, though of course I could be wrong.
Naturally he would not have paddled off on board a canoe at night, but if money flows uphill --as is the style of daddy-- on the temporarily adopted island, a nice yacht to sail off to some island might be the done thing.
I imagine he will hope to be unfindable, an untraceable track/route to Elsewheresville will be the tool, I am guessing, he will hope to keep well out of sight, not even OGGI will be invited round for an espresso and a paid interview, he will take to working for them via Skype or some such thing, I say this as I really cannot see him placing a foot back in Italy.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Slade wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ergon wrote:
This was discussed a while ago, but the Idaho Innocence Project's charitable status mandate was to help people in its own state, Idaho. UW has its own Innocence Project, why didn't they get involved in native person Amanda Knox's case?


Because Greg Hampikian is a gun for hire and he is from Idaho.


The Idaho Innocence Project also solicits donations. How do they get donations and recognition? Get Hampikian's name associated with a high profile murder suspect like AK.

Nell, I was aware of those horrid drawings available for sale by Jodi Arias; apparently that artwork of hers sold well. JA's defense attorneys used the argument that JA should not be put to death b/c of her talent as an artist -- then it was discovered and disclosed that JA had 'traced' the images she was selling, and she had not drawn them. nnn-))



Well, that's entirely reminiscent of Amanda Knox who on her website, is claiming to be an author. She's no author, her book was ghost written. Both Arias and Knox are fakes!

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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. AK's extradition could be a PR mess!   

.org posters were commenting recently on why 'public opinion,' especially in the US, is important to this case, specifically AK's extradition prospects. Rightly, the consensus was, it doesn't matter to the Italian Justice system. But under what circumstances would more people who are only mildly interested in AK's fate become invested in what happens to AK?

Most pro-justice for Meredith factions appear to believe a swift and sure extradition of AK to Italy is beyond doubt, and hope McCall is right in his prediction. However, if it's decided by those involved in the process, there's no stomach, nor interest, in imprisoning AK in a WA state facility -- I believe the US State Department needs to begin their own version of a PR campaign to convince American masses that AK's extradition is deserved.

What would most effectively turn US mass sentiment against AK's extradition, including widespread protests, is to see in the media, her senior (age-wise) supporters physically attempting to block US Marshals from taking AK into custody. Tactics such as tasering them, or dumping her senior white knights out of their power chairs, would be so disturbing, AK's support could increase -- and we don't want that to happen! So assuming AK is held in WA during the process, even short term, if her PR campaign is effective, they might be able to delay extradition for any number of stupid reasons. Never underestimate Americans' capacity for dirty tricks. rul-)

Advice to US State and Justice Departments, not that they're listening, is either -- plan your apprehension of AK well, with absolute surprise, or garner support from trusted news sources who will finally report the evidence truthfully. Otherwise, AK's extradition could be a mess. mop-)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I shouldn't worry about that too much. The police won't be sending her a telegram beforehand to let her know when they're coming to arrest her, so any chance of there being a grand audience to obstruct/observe her arrest when it happens is negligible.

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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The government doesn't really care about public opinion in situations like this. The interest in this is really low. The government will just extradite Knox and there will be discussion of it for a few days and then everyone will just forget. There will be no protests or anything like that.
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I shouldn't worry about that too much. The police won't be sending her a telegram beforehand to let her know when they're coming to arrest her, so any chance of there being a grand audience to obstruct/observe her arrest when it happens is negligible.


I'm trying not to worry about it at all. McCall's, and others' arguments for a fast extradition sound solid. Ted Simon, is, or was, representing AK in extradition proceedings, perhaps only with advice -- but whoever is AK's official legal representative surely will be given some heads-up as to chances of arrest and when.

Can't ignore how obsessed and determined AK's supporters are, including sleeping all night leaned against her front door. If US Marshals come for the little angel, these daft supporters might try and interfere. If they do, the extremes to which they would go, are strictly for the sake of showing the world, via video, how brutally they were treated while protecting their 'girl.' pro-)
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
The government doesn't really care about public opinion in situations like this. The interest in this is really low. The government will just extradite Knox and there will be discussion of it for a few days and then everyone will just forget. There will be no protests or anything like that.


Not envisioning thousands in the streets with signs either, but protesting these days is tweets and emails. The FOAKers may be able to inspire a couple hundred thousand who are at least willing to hit a few keys contacting their US Congressional Reps. And with ABC News firmly on the side of insanity, any video AK's PR machine captures will receive international play and replay.

I'm hoping AK is snapped up without a peep or supporter in sight.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

People are extradited every day. It's hardly a phenomenon.

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Offline Pelerine


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Slade wrote:
McCall wrote:
The government doesn't really care about public opinion in situations like this. The interest in this is really low. The government will just extradite Knox and there will be discussion of it for a few days and then everyone will just forget. There will be no protests or anything like that.


Not envisioning thousands in the streets with signs either, but protesting these days is tweets and emails. The FOAKers may be able to inspire a couple hundred thousand who are at least willing to hit a few keys contacting their US Congressional Reps. And with ABC News firmly on the side of insanity, any video AK's PR machine captures will receive international play and replay.

I'm hoping AK is snapped up without a peep or supporter in sight.



Now I would suggest to do the "first things first" mode. IMHO.
First of all it's needed to confirm the Massei-conviction by the Nencini appeal.
Next step will be confirmation from the High Court.

Then, if and when the extradition request is made by the Italian judiciary, we shall have a real base of discussing the matter.

In the meantime I really hope that more and more truth emerges from that box of worms labelled C&V - Hellmann - Hampikian et al. ff)

and who knows - tide might turn

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I don't think Amanda has "a few hundred thouand supporters", Slade. Any PR agency knows how to create the semblance of that, of course ;)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Before we get into a lengthy extradition debate, first consider the case of little Elian Gonzalez, kidnapped by his Cuban emigre relatives in Miami. They dragged it out in Federal Court, lost, and the Federal Marshalls charged through hundreds of rioting excitables to get him. A great moment for a Democratic Attorney General and President. I don't think there will quite that many Excitable Seattleites barricading the streets for La Knox when it's time for her to go back to Italy.
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Jester wrote:
Michael wrote:
I see the FOAKers are boasting about having John Douglas as party to their "briefing to Congress". This is a rather interesting article on why Douglas and his methods are bunk:

Real-life Crackers are 'worthless' at catching serial killers and hamper investigations

Criminal profilers such as portrayed in television's Cracker are no better at catching serial killers than fortune tellers, it was claimed today.

By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent

6:30AM BST 14 Sep 2010



THE TELEGRAPH


Have a look at this 7 page article in the New Yorker from November 12, 2007,

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007 ... t_gladwell

Keywords: Criminal Profiling; Federal Bureau of Investigation (F.B.I.); Frauds; Tricks; Douglas, John; Psychics; BTK Killer


Wow, that's a fabulous article by Malcolm Gladwell on profilers, like John Douglas. I have a couple of Gladwell's books, 'The Tipping Point' and 'Blink.' Doesn't give you much confidence in the science, seems like it's more of a 'confidence game.'
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Offline Emerald


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda has no need for a legal counsel regarding extradition. There is no verdict yet.

Seems like she is hiding away at this point. ~~OR~~ maybe it's that no one wants to interview her. The AK product is gathering dust on the shelf.
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Before we get into a lengthy extradition debate, first consider the case of little Elian Gonzalez, kidnapped by his Cuban emigre relatives in Miami. They dragged it out in Federal Court, lost, and the Federal Marshalls charged through hundreds of rioting excitables to get him. A great moment for a Democratic Attorney General and President. I don't think there will quite that many Excitable Seattleites barricading the streets for La Knox when it's time for her to go back to Italy.


Agree, AK's supporters won't be barricading the streets -- but if her fan base can convince others by viral messaging or tweets, at the very most, 100-200,000 would send an electronic message or two. Heard estimates of 50,000 WTBHs have sold in some form, so with pass-along to just one other person you'd have 100,000 perhaps interested to send a tweet or text.

I recall little Elian Gonzalez's case well -- horrible photo of little boy hiding in the closet and a military style rifle pointing at him. None of that was necessary. His father turned out to be an OK guy, so glad dad prevailed.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I'm betting one bag of cow dung Sollecito ain't getting on any plane to Italy.

I think it was offered up, as rthey thought there would be other important days before, so for those, offering the judges and the klay judges the idea that well, the guy is coming, he is not running, but, I think he is running and has been, ever since he got out of prision because he knew he should never have been getting out.

All the extra charges he's created for and against himself, means he could now be held as he would be yet again deemed a flight risk, he should never have been permitted to leave Italy.

YHim in the slammer and Knox not, is the key to things starting to unravel, I think, as I cannot imagine him getting his head down for 25 years with the idea that Knox is enjoying the proceeds of her daylight robbery, I mean how insane would that make a crook, murdering someone then getting paid a fortune for it, I cannot find words to express it, it's frighteningly wicked.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Time, 2.35 am, hey, haven't spoken to mom in a while think I'll call her

Ring ring, ring ring

Poor old mom sat upright in bed, struggling to work out what time it was, being well on the way into the rem phase of sleep, she is just ready for a bunch of chitty chatty.

Hi mom, how ya doing?

Mom: Who is this
Caller: You know, me
Mom: Stop messing about, who is me? what time it is? dammit it's 3 o clock, whatchyew calling me up for at this time of night?
Caller: Oh, nothing, if you don't love me then...
Mom: What
Caller: if ya don't want to talk with your child that you brought into this world no fault of its own then...
Mom: has something happened
Caller: Happened, why? of course not, no nothing, everything's normal, what's the weather like, what did you eat? it's been raining here, nothing's happened and if it did it has nothing to do with me, would you like you come to see me?
Mom: See you, you're thousands of miles away and it's the middle of the night
Caller: So you don't care then, what happens to me
Mom: Happens, why, what, when?
Caller: Me, the house might have been burgled, I haven't been there yet, but I expect when I do go there at 8, 9, or 7, or 6 or 5 or 10 there may have been a burglary, something terrible may have happened, but as I said I'll only know that tomorrow, you with me?
Mom: Yawn ???
Caller: Well, get here as fast as you can
Mom: What?
Caller: Fast
Mom: Where
Caller: Here tomorrow
Mom: Listen you go back to sleep you're having a nightmare and you are my nightmare, don't call me up at this time please ever again
Caller: Listen mom I ain't supposed to say this but I think I may have murdered my friend, this is what happened right, bla bla bla bla bla and it wasn't my fault, I do not know what to do
Mom: Oh why didn't ya say I'll get on a plane within a few hours. You should have said, I thought you was nuts or something calling me up like this. Don't tell anyone.

Fact: Knox called her mother up at 3 in the night, next thing mom is on a plane to Italy.
But if Knox and Sollecito were at home, at his place, and only knew about the murder when the door was smashed open, why in the world would mom have jumped on a plane, why would Knox deny even remembering calling her mother, right there in court, when it's all documented that she did call.
It's not just her who is acting, I think mom is too.

And then after blaming Patrick, she wants everyone to believe the police and prosecutor only followed her and Sollecito because they didn't want to be seen to lose, I mean who thought that particular idiotic excuse up.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
For your information

The domains www.friendsofamanda.org and www.amandasefensefund.org have both expired.

This comes as a surprise as Bruce Fischer's Paypal button, collecting donations for Knox, is still active and Knox takes every opportunity to be in the limelight. I would not have thought that this is the best moment for her to make her presence in the world wide web disappear.

Image

Image



For your information

Someone paid the web hosting fee and the "Friends Of Amanda" is back on.

Image


Since Amanda Knox was released, no one cared to update this website, but somehow it is important enough to keep paying the domain registration and the web hosting fee?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

If I was them, I wouldn't bother changing that mailing address ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

On deeply dodgy Paul Ciolino:

1982 double murder in Chicago re-examined

October 23, 2013 10:00 pm • BY JASON KEYSER, The Associated Press



THE SOUTHERN

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Posted on Twitter. Knox looking particularly worse for wear the morning after:


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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Posted on Twitter. Knox looking particularly worse for wear the morning after:



Yep I have to say it, they sure looked a picture of health and good clean liv'ain'.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Hi, Emerald!!! Glad to see your bright avatar! Welcome back.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Michael wrote:
Posted on Twitter. Knox looking particularly worse for wear the morning after:



Yep I have to say it, they sure looked a picture of health and good clean liv'ain'.



I'm a bit surprised that she is not attending the 'congressional briefing'. In keeping with the spooky doings of the day, she could go dressed as a zebra.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

News reports are now coming out thick and fast, all stating that that track 36-i from the murder weapon, has yielded only Knox's profile.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

BREAKING:


Just Tweeted by Barbie Nadeau:

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau 7m
@GianluigiNuzzi interview w/Rudy Guede on Quarto Grado Nov 1,on 6yr anniversary of #meredithkercher murder, will be interesting #amandaknox



https://twitter.com/BLNadeau/status/395905648807772160


And:


Sallyoo ‏@Sallyoo 15m
@Kermittweets @sabrakelly @PMFdotNet ..(addesso).. rompe il silenzio dal carcere Rudy Guede. Ne parleremo domani sera a #quartogrado Rete4



https://twitter.com/Sallyoo/status/395909036526145536

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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Emerald wrote:
Amanda has no need for a legal counsel regarding extradition. There is no verdict yet.

Seems like she is hiding away at this point. ~~OR~~ maybe it's that no one wants to interview her. The AK product is gathering dust on the shelf.


Oh no E. All those left-over books on her shelf are dusted regularly. mop-)
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
News reports are now coming out thick and fast, all stating that that track 36-i from the murder weapon, has yielded only Knox's profile.

This is no surprise with the amount of intense scrubbing that went on. As far as helping the accused I don't see it. If the DNA was Sollecito's that would be more in keeping with the owner and long time home cook leaving traces of himself on his kitchen knife. I don't really see how a new girlfriend who maybe used the knife once managed to leave traces on the handle and blade. That combined with the trace of Meredith which hasn't been explained. The interview with Guede will be one to watch.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Are they going to the prison to interview? Will not his lawyer be there too? Seems strange at this time period.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes, it'll be a jailhouse interview. Don't know about his lawyer. I also suspect it'll be prerecorded, but I'm not sure.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here's the link. Detail light: http://www.social.mediaset.it/quartogrado/

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
News reports are now coming out thick and fast, all stating that that track 36-i from the murder weapon, has yielded only Knox's profile.


Thanks Michael. Umbria Left is reporting the following:

Trace of Amanda Knox's DNA found on the knife considered by the prosecution to be the weapon used to kill Meredith Kercher and analyzed in the new appeals process of Raffaele Sollecito and the American student, which is continuing in Florence. That's what emerges from the assessment carried out by the RIS scientific police and available to the Court and filed today.
...
The result of the expertise filed today in the ongoing trial of Florence is "further proof that there is no link between Raffaele Sollecito and the murder of Meredith Kercher", emphasizes the lawyer of the young defendant, Giulia Bongiorno. The lawyer stressed the "importance" of the fact that the genetic code of the victim and Rudy Guede (sentenced to 16 years) has not been identified. Emphasizing instead that Knox, having frequented Sollecito's house, would have used the knife normally. "With the results of the expert report filed today - said Bongiorno - it failed to establish the last weak link between the murder and Sollecito."

According to the other defense counselor of the young man, the lawyer Luca Maori, the new track is an "extension" of that already analyzed. "It demonstrates - he added - that Amanda took it [the knife} to pull it out of the drawer and make a normal use of it in the kitchen." For the lawyer Maori, also, "there's no DNA of Meredith" on the knife. "As the experts of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Perugia amply demonstrated" - he concluded.


UMBRIA LEFT
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 13m

RIS: New trace of DNA found on knife blade is #amandaknox, near other trace attributed prior to Meredith, according to @lastampa update.

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 2m

Cautionary note: full details of RIS DNA report in #amandaknox case revealed Nov 6, so news leaks now could be incomplete.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A little bit more details from GoNews (Firenze):

The expertise: extremely small amounts of DNA

Genetic testing on the track analyzed in the appeals process of Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox for the murder of Meredith Kercher, showed "the presence of an extremely small amount of genetic material resulting from the contribution of one or more female subjects". Write in their conclusions the experts appointed by the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence. The RIS experts appointed to examine the sample "in complex analytical conditions" (low-template DNA or low copy number). According to the experts, comparisons have "ruled out the hypothesis that the genetic material of Meredith Susanna Cara Kercher, Rudy Hermann Guede and Raffaele Sollecito are present in the trace "I" and, therefore, such persons may have contributed, with their biological material, to the trace "I"".

"Likewise - add the experts - overall assessment of the results of the interpretation put in place, supports very significantly the hypothesis that the genetic material of Amanda Marie Knox is present in the trace I, and that, therefore, Amanda Marie Knox has contributed, with her biological material, to the trace I".

The family lawyer : "It's a result in line with the charges"

"The survey confirms what had been unofficially anticipated. It proves that the knife was used by Knox and that element, evaluated together with those already present, lets assume the responsibility of the accused" - is the comment of the Kercher family lawyer, the lawyer Francesco Maresca, on the results of the survey on the trace of DNA found on the knife seized in Raffaele Sollecito's house and considered to be the murder weapon of Meredith. The tests attribute the trace to Amanda Knox, Rafaele Sollecito's co-accused.


GONEWS (FIRENZE)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes Mr Maresca is clear.

What the new analysis shows is that Knox is
1) very present on that knife
2) the new analysis reinforces the link of trace Meredith on knife to the person responsible for that trace of Meredith being on the knife, Knox.

Oh dear. We cannot say who knew, we knew.

The analyses, all, place murder weapon in the Knox hand.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So the only identified traces are Knox and Meredith on the knife. Considering that Sollecito would have been the main chef, the absence of his DNA paints the picture; The presence of the victim and the assailant's DNA, suspiciously clean, and anyone that argues bread, pasta, or tertiary transfer, is an idiot.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Perugia, Meredith, Amanda Knox's DNA on the knife

...But the very absence of biological traces of the victim means to the defenses that it [the knife] cannot be the murder weapon. It outlines already 'the battle that will take place' in the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence on Wednesday, when the results of the appraisal conducted by Major Andrea Berti and Capt. Filippo Barni of Ris Carabinieri in Rome will be discussed.

"The overall assessment of the results of interpretation carried out - 91 pages of written conclusions drawn and deposited today - supports very significantly the hypothesis that the genetic material of Amanda Marie Knox is present in the trace I, and that, therefore, Amanda Marie Knox has contributed, with her biological material, to the trace I".

In that trace, taken from the part of the blade near the handle, the experts found "the presence of an extremely small amount of genetic material resulting from the contribution of one or more female subjects, which led to believe that the analysis of the sample would be complex."

The next phase has allowed to obtain genetic profiles "largely overlapping between them and, on the whole, suitable for comparisons." For each person named by the Assize Court of Appeal, experts, therefore, "made ​​a comparison with the results obtained from the sample 'I'."

The outcome of the comparison, it is stated in the report, "has allowed us to exclude the hypothesis that the genetic material of Meredith Susanna Cara Kercher, Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Hermann Guede is present in the track 'I' and that, therefore, such persons may have contributed, with their own biological material, to the track 'I'.
...
"The results of the expertise - says Bongiorno - categorically exclude that the knife is the murder weapon. Yet another demonstration - she adds - that there's nothing that links the crime to Raffaele and Amanda, because the only link was the murder weapon, but this expertise excludes that it was."


UMBRIA JOURNAL

Yeah, it's no surprise that Sollecito's defense team is now spinning the results of the expertise as a victory for their side, somewhat prematurely, in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
So the only identified traces are Knox and Meredith on the knife. Considering that Sollecito would have been the main chef, the absence of his DNA paints the picture; The presence of the victim and the assailant's DNA, suspiciously clean, and anyone that argues bread, pasta, or tertiary transfer, is an idiot.


I also do not believe his line about cooking with a penknife, he was very worried about the knife, but having his own traces on it wiped out by Knox, may make him quite pleased, as Bongiorno weighs up his options, yet even if he, at this late stage, starts to really blame it on Knox by coming 1/4 clean it is not going to clear him, in a way I can imagine the justice system in Italy as the body that it is, being more irate in reaction to what he has done than they already are with Knox, as he knows exactly what is what but starts behaving like some kind of half-baked Americano, as though that could save him, in his mind at least this is what he sadly thought, I guess, may help him, he obviously, I guess again, thought along such lines, but apart from not swallowing his nonsense, they aren't even swallowing Knox's VERSION, one of her many, in the version family, all of their excuses are worse than a lame mule and need shooting (down), that's for sure.

God knows or Fred Flintstone knows, what kind of people he will be hooking up with in his position on the island that many leave through poverty. He: Oh yes my country the justice, no, the judge or someone says the cow can fly then the other says yes then I am in the prison. But here, in the Caribbean sun, it's perfect, they are DISCRETE.

Oh they changed the date, I was going to come, now I cannot for I am having the appointment, please, times are though (sic) and it's now I need your money, please donate, here, please, here, please, here or here, please, thank you, or here. Please, I will send you my secret bank account number. Please include value added tax. Thank you, my next book coming out soon: Now you see me, now you don't, idiot abroad; an autobiography.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Bonny Giornetto, doesn't have anything worth saying, nothing of real value so all of what she says, is propaganda, same with the others, Knox's lot. She acts thus as though the findings in the initial hearing, the trial, are not valid and acts as though the findings of the Hellmann court are, nobody ruled that Meredith's trace is not on the knife, only the lollipop guy who usually directed traffic did in his vague way by ignoring it and the rest, but he got into court as a judge through a mix up with names; my belief is he was suffering from alzheimer's and had no idea where he was or what he was talking about.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

For our German-speaking/-reading members:

Wirbel um neue DNA-Spuren von Amanda Knox

(Hype over new DNA traces of Amanda Knox)

RHEINISCHE POST

NOZ (Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Sorry but we have been "hearing" way too much from the defendants and their lawyers and media stooges for the last six years. On November 06, the voice will begin to hear once again, will be that of the victim, Meredith Kercher. Kudos to the Italian justice system for keeping that first and foremost.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

No tweets from Steve Moore on today's "congressional hearing", just insignificant platitudes and trite remarks. Something tells me that the "briefing" wasn't a huge success. ;)

Steve Moore ‏@Gman_Moore 2h
Faux Fox News a no-show at congressional briefing.

Steve Moore ‏@Gman_Moore 1h
Heading home tomorrow on the Knox PR supertanker, the S.S. Pro Bono.

Steve Moore ‏@Gman_Moore 1h
@Gman_Moore As soon as I buy my ticket
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Sorry but we have been "hearing" way too much from the defendants and their lawyers and media stooges for the last six years. On November 06, the voice will begin to hear once again, will be that of the victim, Meredith Kercher. Kudos to the Italian justice system for keeping that first and foremost.


Oh, I thought I'd made a mental note of the 6th having been changed to a different date, am I remembering things incorrectly?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Some October dates were cancelled, but there will be three dates in November, starting November 06
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Just tweeted by Moore, the "optimist":

Steve Moore ‏@Gman_Moore 3m

Great day for Amanda & Raff. DNA results finally remove knife as murder weapon. Bleach myth dead. Absent corruption, case effectively over.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Cancelled court dates were October 23, 24, November 07, remaining court dates are November 06, 24, 25.

So, a trial schedule cut by one third. Now the actual discussion begins, with nothing left for the defence I think.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Steve Moore, not ever having consulted a dictionary, argued that doing work 'pro bono' meant he wasn't a 'mercenary'. I looked up: to fight for monetary or other gain. I think his 3rd career as a defense 'investigator' and media 'expert' pays him well enough one way or the other. He fed quite well on the publicity of this case, at least he looks well fed.

Mercenary
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Some October dates were cancelled, but there will be three dates in November, starting November 06



oh I should edit one of my scenarios above, then again no, but anyhow

Sollecito: I just ain't coming even if the 6th wasn't cancelled, I'm safe here, they are discrete.

Dad: oh yes he missed the date, he sent a note he had a tummy ache.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The defense of Knox: "The experts of Perugia were right."

For the defense of Amanda Knox, the lawyer Luciano Ghirga says. The expertise "excludes more and more the concept that that is the murder weapon" and re-evaluates the work of the experts of the Court of Assizes of Perugia (whose verdict of acquittal was canceled by the Supreme Court, ed) : "Those experts, who had not then had appropriate tools to examine such a low amount of material, had done good."

"The experts appointed by the judges of Florence - adds Ghirga - have in fact rebuilt methods to analyze a sample of low copy number and [they] are the same [methods] according to which in Perugia were not considered reliable the conclusions of the scientific police. Specifically, for the track on the knife attributed to Meredith Kercher, criticisms of the work of the scientific police were then not unfounded."


The Kercher [family] lawyer: "Amanda used that knife."

...

The same Maresca disputes the conclusion that Meredith's DNA wasn't found on the knife. "You have to remember that on the tip of the knife had been found (during the scientific police investigation, ed) the profile of the victim," said the lawyer to Adnkronos, "the experts in the first appeal (in Perugia, which was annulled by the Supreme Court, ed ) did not contest this profile as a result of the lab work, but objected to the limited biological substance on the outcome of the examination. So there is no question but if you could examine the outcome or not."


LA REPUBBLICA
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

And just to look at public interest in the case, I don't think too many people came away from reading herself's book with a profound sense of innocence proved.

Sure any bot can create 50,000 e-mails or tweets. But the Florence Court doesn't seem to be overwhelmed by media seats, the courtroom is not packed. Knox and Sollecito lost a lot of believers after the Rome Supreme Court ruled in March.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
And just to look at public interest in the case, I don't think too many people came away from reading herself's book with a profound sense of innocence proved.

Sure any bot can create 50,000 e-mails or tweets. But the Florence Court doesn't seem to be overwhelmed by media seats, the courtroom is not packed. Knox and Sollecito lost a lot of believers after the Rome Supreme Court ruled in March.


And can you believe it Ergon, Fox didn't show up for Knoxy not so very Foxy as she herself didst think she was, Fox that beacon of top quality, shining like a light in the ...

In room in big important room, hired for the day measuring 4x4.

Organiser: You want a coffee:
The guest: Yeah, no sugar
Organiser: Be right back

Coffee machine is half an hour away through the building 4 floors up.

Organiser: Back.. hel loooooooooo, I'm back

Guest left and organiser drinks the cold coffee himself.
End

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Cancelled court dates were October 23, 24, November 07, remaining court dates are November 06, 24, 25.

So, a trial schedule cut by one third. Now the actual discussion begins, with nothing left for the defence I think.


Hi Ergon and @ll,

Please note the correct court dates according to Italian media are Nov 6, 25 and 26.

Corriere Fiorentino
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Yeah, it's no surprise that Sollecito's defense team is now spinning the results of the expertise as a victory for their side, somewhat prematurely, in my opinion.


I absolutely agree.

Not sure how the court will feel about these leaks from the defence, anticipating the court's position regarding the murder weapon which at this point is highly speculative.

My guess is that the courts are used to dirty tricks by defence teams.

The focus has shifted away from this matter since the new appeal has started, but the question remains why Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti did not test the trace. My guess is they made an effort to discredit the evidence for personal reasons and, as this was their goal, they focussed on attacking the DNA evidence. Analysing new material would have been counterproductive in their situation.

The new tests have revealed that human DNA was present in the sample they assured was too little to get any results at all.

How many strikes does it take to discredit a DNA expert? This was not a human error or a simple oversight. It wasn't a honest mistake. Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti refused to do the job they had been instructed to do. They owe an explanation.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox Forensic Tests Do Not Find Victim's DNA on Knife Spot
By Phoebe Natanson

Knox's defense lawyer Luciano Ghirga said these new tests "push even further away the possibility that this was the murder weapon."

Knox's lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova did not sound surprised about the results of the forensic tests.

Remarking on the sixth anniversary of Kercher's murder, which falls Friday, he said, "We still don't have one shred of proof. It will be six years tomorrow since the murder and we are still debating circumstantial evidence which is highly doubtful. There is not one element of proof in this case and there is nothing new."


ABC NEWS
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Bill O'Reilly thinks AK is guilty!   

Why all the dumping on Fox News? Bill O'Reilly, whose show in on the Fox cable news channel, was first, even before Nancy Grace, to state very emphatically on his show here in the states immediately after the announcement of AK's acquittal verdict that he thought AK was involved in the murder and she got away with it. Am I the only one who saw that?

Want to influence someone who has influence, Bill O'Reilly and fmr judge Jeanine Pirro, have both stated publicly they believe AK is guilty! There haven't been many as brave as these two to stick their necks out against prevailing public opinions and media news outlets' lies that AK is being framed by the Italian Justice System.

B/c, like it or not folks, the majority in the US think they're both innocent. Yeah, these low-level peeps don't count, but they can make life inconvenient for politicians. We pro-justice factions live in a bubble of enlightenment, but most others are so stuck in their trust of mainstream media who have been selling this propaganda swill for so long, that of those who have heard about the case, most will respond -- 'yeah, they're both innocent, aren't they? They were framed.' em)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

La Gazzetta del Mezzogiorno (Puglia) is reporting that Sollecito will be in the courtroom on the 6th:

The results of this new survey will be discussed in the courtoom in the next hearing in Florence, on November 6. That day, for the first time in the appeal thereof, will be one of the defendants, Sollecito. He assured his father, Francesco. After a holiday in Santo Domingo, now Raffaele is traveling to Italy, waiting to get to Florence.


LA GAZETTA DEL MEZZOGIORNO (PUGLIA)

So he is traveling to Italy RIGHT NOW, at this very moment? :) Funny isn't it? Like others on this board, I'll believe it when I see it (him) in court.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

It should indeed be noted that conservatives tend to focus on victims and respect for law and order, and those of 'liberal bent' are likely to focus on the broken systems and distrust of authority. But as far as this case goes, I have seen conservative and liberal advocates on both sides of the fence. Good for strong advocates like O'Reilly, Coulter, judge Pirri, Murphy for speaking up. Regardless of their politics.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
It should indeed be noted that conservatives tend to focus on victims and respect for law and order, and those of 'liberal bent' are likely to focus on the broken systems and distrust of authority. But as far as this case goes, I have seen conservative and liberal advocates on both sides of the fence. Good for strong advocates like O'Reilly, Coulter, judge Pirri, Murphy for speaking up. Regardless of their politics.


Glad you brought this up: as an independent, like O'Reilly, I've seen there are many liberals who are strong advocates for justice for Meredith, and I was a little surprised by their reactions. Seattle, WA is a very liberal state, yet some of Meredith's strongest supporters are based there. I would have thought most liberals would say, hey, four years in prison is enough punishment, let it go. But law & order conservatives would say, hell, no, when you choose to murder, you've chosen to take a life that can never be returned, and you deserve the maximum sentence, or life in prison with no possibility of parole.

Yet, it seems of those who care, it's the jingoists who are most interested in defending the murderer, AK. Their attitudes are: 'Those Italians can't have our American girl -- we don't care about their fabricated evidence, give her back to us. We don't care who died, you have a murderer in Guede, send her back and stop bothering her.'

Then there are Americans who are curious, thoughtful, look beyond the headlines, and understand how horrible this loss has been for the Kerchers, and especially for Meredith herself who lost her chance to have a wonderful, purposeful, meaningful life of 50-60 years more. For that reason, all this arrogance shown by AK, her family, and supporters is truly unforgiveable.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Bill O'Reilly thinks AK is guilty!   

Slade wrote:
B/c, like it or not folks, the majority in the US think they're both innocent.


Actually, I suspect the majority in the US think "Amanda who?" Of course neither of us has any reliable data to support one contention or the other. Very few people in the US have followed this case. It doesn't generate any significant coverage in major media outlets apart from that created by the PR machine and the corporate marketing departments who think they can make a buck off of the fake controversy.

Slade wrote:
Yeah, these low-level peeps don't count, but they can make life inconvenient for politicians.


They could if this case had anything to do with politics (e.g. the Treyvon Martin murder). Fortunately, as Ergon pointed out, it doesn't. My guess is that as a topic of political interest, this case ranks somewhere between moleskin subsidies and drinking straw regulations. Which would explain the widespread media coverage of super-hero Steve Moore's "congressional briefing".
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:35 pm   Post subject: Political Hot Potato   

Widespread coverage indeed:

Attachment:
congress.png


Of those seven entries from Google News, the most recent was from a blog post two days ago. I doubt they even finished the coffee and doughnuts Steve Moore had to provide to get anyone to show up. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Peter Quennell has a new post up on TJMK:

Why DNA Test Results 6 November May Leave No Further Argument Over Knox And Sollecito Guilt

TJMK
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:44 pm   Post subject: Re: Political Hot Potato   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Widespread coverage indeed:

Attachment:
congress.png


Of those seven entries from Google News, the most recent was from a blog post two days ago. I doubt they even finished the coffee and doughnuts Steve Moore had to provide to get anyone to show up. :lol:


I just heard the cleaning lady kicked em out, McGarrett tried to get Danno to book 'er but his wife had no idea what he was on about, saying, why you keep calling me Danno

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I wonder what the judge will think of the objection that the trace containing Meredith's DNA was too small to be reliable, now a much smaller trace has been successfully tested.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Update re: Sollecito's travel plans, posted on the GO NEWS (Firenze) website:

Sollecito informed by SMS, will be in the courtroom

As previously announced, Raffaele Sollecito "will be in the courtroom" in Florence, November 6, for the next hearing of the new appeal trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Said to the ANSA news agency his father, Francesco, who informed the young man by text message of the results of the report filed today. Raffaele Sollecito is currently traveling to Italy after a holiday spent in Santo Domingo.

"I wrote to him that in the report is what we had hoped," said Francesco Sollecito referring to the message sent to his son." "I explained to him - he added - favorable conclusions reached by the experts of RIS. Telling him that he must be extremely happy." "The expert report filed today - still claimed Francesco Sollecito - is flawless, scrupulous and adheres to the canons and protocols of the international community. Re-evaluates - said Francesco Sollecito - the work of the experts of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Perugia."


GO NEWS (FIRENZE)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

The only "news" I have seen about the congress briefing is from Steve Moore who tweets non-sensical messages just like his wife.

According to him, the highlight of his briefing was a screenshot from Twitter.


On Twitter, Michelle Moore misrepresents the tweet from that fake Fox Twitter account, claiming her husband had been threatened.


Can you imagine a "serious" event and an ex-FBI/ex-Security Guard/now-self employed Steve Moore shows the audience this screenshot from Twitter?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Scrolling further through G.I. Joe's tweets, I understand the number of attendees must have been easily manageable as he confirms he could not spot Faux Fox News, an anonymous Twitter user, unknown to him.

Furthermore, he informs us that he will be discussing the impact of this faux Twitter account on CNN.

This is unreal. The way I see it Steve Moore supports someone who has been provisionally convicted of murder, pending appeal. Her first appeal was annulled and rumour has it there might be an investigation as to how connected the independent DNA experts and judges might have been with the defence teams. Now she appeals her guilty verdict for the second time and unless she wins this very important appeal, and gets the high court's approval, she will go back to prison for a very long time.

Knowing all that, Steve Moore wants to discuss someone anonymous who registered a fake account on Twitter publishing humorous messages? What impact could this recently registered fake account have on Amanda Knox, her image or her defence in court? Words fail me!

For the sake of completeness, I will add to my post the screenshot of Moore's tweet to which @fox_breaking responded (published in my previous post) and which is now claimed to be a "threat".


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

guermantes wrote:
Update re: Sollecito's travel plans, posted on the GO NEWS (Firenze) website:

Sollecito informed by SMS, will be in the courtroom

As previously announced, Raffaele Sollecito "will be in the courtroom" in Florence, November 6, for the next hearing of the new appeal trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Said to the ANSA news agency his father, Francesco, who informed the young man by text message of the results of the report filed today. Raffaele Sollecito is currently traveling to Italy after a holiday spent in Santo Domingo.

"I wrote to him that in the report is what we had hoped," said Francesco Sollecito referring to the message sent to his son." "I explained to him - he added - favorable conclusions reached by the experts of RIS. Telling him that he must be extremely happy." "The expert report filed today - still claimed Francesco Sollecito - is flawless, scrupulous and adheres to the canons and protocols of the international community. Re-evaluates - said Francesco Sollecito - the work of the experts of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Perugia."


GO NEWS (FIRENZE)


Thank you for keeping us updated with all case related links!

I see this declaration from Sollecito's father as an admission they indeed were afraid RIS would identify Meredith's DNA on the knife again and that's why Raffaele Sollecito traveled to Santo Domingo, as a precaution.

It is not that Meredith's DNA sample disappeared, it has already been identified, so nothing has changed for the defence, they still have to claim contamination. So what was he afraid of?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

BREAKING NEWS


Caso Meredith - Il DNA di Amanda sull arma del delitto

Quotidiano dell'Umbria has leaked the report deposited in court yesterday: Click here to download the report or use link below.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Knowing all that, Steve Moore wants to discuss someone anonymous who registered a fake account on Twitter publishing humorous messages? What impact could this recently registered fake account have on Amanda Knox, her image or her defence in court? Words fail me!


Thanks Nell for keeping us informed about G-Man's activities. I had the same thought and wanted to ask the same question: how is this relevant to the Amanda Knox defense? It seems to me that Mr Moore & Family are 1) super-sensitive to criticism, real or imagined; 2) prone to being critical towards others; and 3) feel threatened all the time. Not the best approach to life, I must say. n-((
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

From what I understand, the report says the sample "I" has Knox's DNA and Guede, Sollecito and the victim can be excluded as contributers of the sample.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

King 5 has a video where you can see Judge Heavey speaking at the "congressional briefing".

I count at least 9 heads + 3 empty chairs. Safe to say the room wasn't cramped with people.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
For the sake of completeness, I will add to my post the screenshot of Moore's tweet to which @fox_breaking responded (published in my previous post) and which is now claimed to be a "threat".


Steve Moore on Twitter wrote:
All the Amanda Knox haters in the world screaming in unison, and a tree falling in a deserted forest--equal decibels.


Apparently Moore is so dense that he actually believes a falling tree makes no sound unless someone is around to hear it.

I'm starting to feel like Knox should get some mitigation on her sentence for time served in the company of first class ignoramuses like the Moores. I certainly feel like I'm being punished for something every time I have to read their inane drivel.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
King 5 has a video where you can see Judge Heavey speaking at the "congressional briefing".

I count at least 9 heads + 3 empty chairs. Safe to say the room wasn't cramped with people.


King 5 wrote:
Michael Heavey told the congressional staffers who attended the briefing that Italy was embarassed when the appeals court threw out Knox's conviction in 2011, in part because that meant she had been wrongfully imprisoned for four years.


Okay, so at least two staffers showed up. Apparently no actual members of congress were in attendance since none were mentioned.

Some "legal expert", that washed-up judge Heavey. It seems he can't comprehend that Knox was convicted and served three years for accusing an innocent man of murder. Or maybe he does understand and he's just a dishonest assclown. So, stupid or lying? (yeah, we all know it is actually both.)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

So, now the day has ended and we've had a chance to get of today's now past) sensationalism.

To sum up, three big stories in one day:

1) The forensic report has been om knife sample 36-1 has been completed and filed to the court...and leaked.
2) In a few days time, Rudy Guede is going to give his first media interview on camera.
3) The FOAKers went to the visitors centre in Congress and held a yawnfest in the broom cupboard next to the cafeteria.

The most important story of the day is the result if testing on track 36-i. The defence, FOAKers and Knox friendly media are spinning that the result effectively throws out the knife. Of course, that's complete claptrap. So, in the calm "morning after", let's assess what the result of the DMA testing REALLY means for Knox and Sollecito.

If the reports are correct and the the sample is of Amanda Knox, this is a DISASTER for the pair and this is no hyperbole. Members have already summed up two of the reasons: 1) The testing of a smaller sample then Stefanoni tested (sample 36-b that revealed Meredith's small, but complete and clean profile) is effectively validated by this test. 2) it's yet more of Knox's DNA on the murder weapon.

These are bad enough. But, it's the implication that nobody has appeared to have considered yet that's the real killer!:

3) Meredith's sample in 36-b was small, but clean - no environmental DNA and even more importantly, no Knox DNA. Likewise, Knox DNA on the handle and in trace 36-i is also clean and not mixed with that of the victim. This effectively completely locks the defence out of arguing contamination/tertiary transference!. In attempting to explain how trace 36-b (Meredith's profile) got on the knife, the defence have argued contamination, from the get-go. Now, there are THREE periods for the knife where the "posibility" lay for it becoming contaminated.

The first: A) The possibility of it being contaminated in the lab. We have now established, beyond doubt, that the knife couldn't have been contaminated in the lab, since it was kept separate from other items and when tested, the last items from the case had been tested many days before, making accidental contamination impossible. This route is closed off to the defence.

The second: B) When the police collected the knife from Sollecito's and put it through the chain of custody. The manner of that collection and the chain of custody was long ago well documented and contamination via that route long ago ruled out. As such, that route was was closed to the defence long ago (hence why they focused on its testing at the lab instead).

That leaves the third and last avenue: C) Knox perhaps contaminating the knife via third party transfer of Meredith's DNA somehow, from the cottage to Sollecito's and onto the knife. It's a long shot, since claims of tertiary transfer aren't really supported by the literature, but it's "possible". It would have had to have been by Knox, since we know Meredith herself had never been to Sollecito's apartment and the knife had never been to the cottage for any innocent reason. Now, here's the problem. All the samples on the knife are clean, they are not mixed Meredith/Knox together, nor do they contain any stray alleles from other unknown individuals, or Sollecito who Knox was in regular physical contact with. That is what we WOULD expect to see had Knox contaminated the knife...a mixture of their samples combined with maybe the partial profiles of others...noisy samples. Instead, we have a small, but pristine samples (low noise to peak ratio, no stray alleles that don't match the victim in her sample, or Knox in hers. Moreover, Meredith's profile is complete, where if any kind of tertiary transfer had happened we would instead expect to see only a partial profile...two...three...four...five loci, but instead there's a full profile. How remotely likely is it, that Knox would carry and deposit a complete and clean profile of Meredith on one portion of the knife, containing none of her own DNA, and then transferring a complete and clean profile of her own DNA, this time containing NONE of Meredith's DNA she supposedly transferred, to the handle and another section of the blade.? In short, how did their two profiles both end up on that blade, but each completely separate and pristine if it was Knox who transferred it? And then, if that's not enough, Meredith's complete profile ends up on the the blade of the knife near the pointy end, instead of a more innocent area like the handle. Taken altogether, what are the odds??? The argument for tertiary contamination by Knox, always extremely weak to begin with, is now completely dead in the water!

This effectively means, the defence have completely lost the argument for all three possible routes of contamination, A), B) & C). That leaves the defence with only one option left...to attack Stefanoni's original test again. But that could never really hold water, since even IF Stefanoni had done something wrong or her method was flawed (which of course, I don't believe either to be the case) then it would have resulted in Zero or complete gibberish, not a complete and clean profile of Meredith Kercher. An individual's DNA profile cannot be "created", only read. And now of course, the testing of 36-i serves to validate Stefanoni's testing, making the argument even harder. And the defence can't argue that it isn't Meredith's DNA either, since it's a clear match and even the corrupt "independent" experts had to admit that it indeed is Meredith's profile. The defence are screwed!!!

As a final note, if Nell's reading of the report is correct and Guede's profile, even if only partial, has been found in a sample from that knife...that's Knox and Sollecito's coffins nailed shut!!!

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Itchy wrote:
Okay, so at least two staffers showed up. Apparently no actual members of congress were in attendance since none were mentioned.

Some "legal expert", that washed-up judge Heavey. It seems he can't comprehend that Knox was convicted and served three years for accusing an innocent man of murder. Or maybe he does understand and he's just a dishonest assclown. So, stupid or lying? (yeah, we all know it is actually both.)



Hi Itchy :) The two staffers were probably from Cantwell and the other senator who sponsored the event. That, in anyone's book, makes the whole thing a no-show...no interest from Congress whatsoever!!! I think the shills need to set their sights rather lower...like maybe a guest appearance on the Cook's blog...that low.

And just to say , kudos to McCall, you called it exactly right! :)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
As a final note, if Nell's reading of the report is correct and Guede's profile, even if only partial, has been found in a sample from that knife...that's Knox and Sollecito's coffins nailed shut!!!


No, that's not what I meant! Only Knox's DNA was found. Guede, Sollecito and also Meredith could be excluded as contributors. That means their DNA was not found in trace "I".

Sorry for that.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
As a final note, if Nell's reading of the report is correct and Guede's profile, even if only partial, has been found in a sample from that knife...that's Knox and Sollecito's coffins nailed shut!!!


No, that's not what I meant! Only Knox's DNA was found. Guede, Sollecito and also Meredith could be excluded as contributors. That means their DNA was not found in trace "I".

Sorry for that.


The misunderstanding was mine :) Thanks for clarifying and apologies if I confused anyone.

Okay, that keeps things nice and simple. Had Guede's profile been found, it would have been goodnight Vienna for Knox and Sollecito, but I'm actually glad it wasn't. That's because explaining it would have been a problem and would have meant that I'd have had to back to the drawing board...since I'm convinced, after carefully piecing everything together, that Guede didn't use any of the knives and had no part in the stabbing...and indeed wasn't even present when the fatal blow was landed in fact. These things I'm almost certain of. Had his DNA neen on that knife, then I would have had to reassess.

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Offline max


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Guede will speak tonight. Horrible timing. RIP Meredith.
http://www.mediaset.it/quimediaset/comu ... 6768.shtml
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Offline LUFC1972


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Steve Moore really is dumb as a post. Even a cursory glance at Twitter reveals there are numerous 'parody accounts' for any number of organizations. Any man or his dog can set one up in less than a minute and most are just a means of taking the piss. The Faux Fox one is not particularly funny but it is clearly a bogus account and not particularly malicious. The comment that provoked G-man's little baby-girl hysterics is also really innocuous - if he thinks too much his head may explode type of thing, which is a valid concern. There must be some doubt about the guy's mental health. Did he leave the FBI out of choice or was he given a shove?

RIP Meredith. 6 years gone but not forgotten.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Steve Moore on the internet and as an advocate for Amanda Knox is a spectacle. If he turned the spoof Fox News Twitter account into a PowerPoint presentation that is embarrassing. No one showed up but that is not how you gain support. In the alternative if Moore did not actually present those tweets as part of his presentation but nevertheless thinks it would have been a good thing to have done so then he is stupid. This is one of team Knox's stars. Things are not looking good for Knox is she can't find anyone more competent.

Is David Marriott still running Amanda Knox's PR campaign? If he is he doesn't know what he is doing.
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Bill O'Reilly thinks AK is guilty!   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Slade wrote:
B/c, like it or not folks, the majority in the US think they're both innocent.


Actually, I suspect the majority in the US think "Amanda who?" Of course neither of us has any reliable data to support one contention or the other. Very few people in the US have followed this case. It doesn't generate any significant coverage in major media outlets apart from that created by the PR machine and the corporate marketing departments who think they can make a buck off of the fake controversy.


Agree most would ask, "Amanda who?" Made that point myself elsewhere. It's the ones who think they know about the case who concern me. B/c I'm interested, I ask people if they think AK is guilty or not, and am disheartened by the responses. Even interviewed an intern candidate last spring for my consulting group who I thought might be 'borderline' useful for the position. Since the position required a person who does not accept information, especially vendor supplied information as absolute truth, needed someone naturally curious. When I asked her if she was aware of AK's case, she replied, 'very aware of it,' then I asked 'is AK guilty?.' Her reply was 'absolutely not;' 'AK was framed and there was no evidence against her.' OK, candidate wasn't hired, and not solely b/c of her AK opinion, but b/c she didn't have sufficient curiosity to question information she viewed as coming from an 'authority' like the media, plus of course, other reasons as well.

Itchy Brother wrote:
Slade wrote:
Yeah, these low-level peeps don't count, but they can make life inconvenient for politicians.


They could if this case had anything to do with politics (e.g. the Treyvon Martin murder). Fortunately, as Ergon pointed out, it doesn't. My guess is that as a topic of political interest, this case ranks somewhere between moleskin subsidies and drinking straw regulations. Which would explain the widespread media coverage of super-hero Steve Moore's "congressional briefing".


AK's 2011 acquittal verdict was a punch in the gut for many of us. Don't want to get my hopes up just to have to experience that extreme disappointment again. Elsewhere someone described their disappointment as being similar to PTSD -- agree with that sentiment. Yours, Ergon's, and others' arguments I want to believe without any reservations -- anxiety is part of my personality I suppose, not that I'm interested in seeing that (bleeping s-(( AK ) get away with murder.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

New photo

It's impossible for the ~10lb rock to have been thrown through the lower portion of the right hand (from the outside) window pane and to have landed close to the wall, beneath the window on the left.

Image
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. Bill O'Reilly thinks AK is guilty!   

please remove


Last edited by ttrroonniicc on Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:

It's impossible for the ~10lb rock to have been thrown through the lower portion of the right hand (from the outside) window pane and to have landed close to the wall, beneath the window on the left.


More important is the shape and size of the rock. It was simply not made for throwing! It is really odd shape for holding.

A basketball player will search for the right shape and size of stone- will simply not pick up a random one.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Amanda Knox’s Boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito ‘Visited Meredith Kercher’s Grave in London’
Family of British student murdered in Perugia had warned suspects to stay away from cemetery
International Business Times UKNovember 01, 2013 4:26 PM GMT

By Umberto Bacchi : | November 01, 2013 4:26 PM GMT



IBTIMES

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
New photo

It's impossible for the ~10lb rock to have been thrown through the lower portion of the right hand (from the outside) window pane and to have landed close to the wall, beneath the window on the left.

Image


Hi, ttrroonniicc while I agree with you that the rock could not have bounced from the right window pane to the other side of Filomena's room, the 'window on the left' belongs to another, Amanda Knox.
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. In memory of Meredith   

In memory of Meredith Kercher, here's a link to the music video most have seen before. Some of my favorite images of Meredith's beautiful exotic face and large, dark, expressive eyes are here.

Kristian Leontiou - Some Say (il video con Meredith Kercher)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0wB3RAQa3k

rip)
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Offline Slade


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Amanda Knox’s Boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito ‘Visited Meredith Kercher’s Grave in London’
Family of British student murdered in Perugia had warned suspects to stay away from cemetery
International Business Times UKNovember 01, 2013 4:26 PM GMT

By Umberto Bacchi : | November 01, 2013 4:26 PM GMT



IBTIMES


And now it's time for Raffaele to tell what he and AK did to Meredith! Why was it important for RS to have this information reported; he could have gone to the cemetery without anyone knowing he was ever there. RS claims he is a gentle soul -- no, RS, you are not! RS is still thinking of himself and certainly not Meredith's family.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

He who has learned nothing deserves whatever happens to him. Karmically speaking, of course.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

`Thing is, whether he did go or not, mentioning such ideas then not stepping up to say no, it is not true I did not go, shows he is basically stalking not just Meredith after her death, but stalking her family, because not only the terrible image of him going to Meredith's grave but the threat that he could be showing up even at their homes is beyond belief. Knox is the same, with her photos of Meredith, yeah, sure, as if she ever cared!!!

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
Sorry but we have been "hearing" way too much from the defendants and their lawyers and media stooges for the last six years. On November 06, the voice will begin to hear once again, will be that of the victim, Meredith Kercher. Kudos to the Italian justice system for keeping that first and foremost.


rip) Meredith.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Rudy Guede has written a strange letter to Quarto Grado.
He uses very vague, non-specific words, mere hints; there are no new revelations about his role and the role of his accomplices in the crime of Perugia. A waste of everyone's time.

The letter of Rudy Guede on the truth of the murder of Meredith Kercher

What truth?! He's just like Knox and Sollecito, more concerned with people who call him a "fool" and a "liar", which he certainly is.

Here's "raw" translation:

"“The same judges that did not want to believe me, they say that I did not kill Meredith, I have not stolen and I have not done any simulation [of the crime scene]. I want to point out that those who committed this terrible act are still at large; today, unfortunately, the truth has not been discovered yet, and never will, if you continue to listen to people like Mario Alessi and others like him."

He breaks his silence with a letter written in his own hand from the prison of Viterbo, Rudy Guede. The document written by the young Ivorian, who is serving a sentence of 16 years for the murder of Meredith Kercher, will be shown tonight on "Fourth Degree".

"In recent days, I have done nothing but hear a distorted interpretation of the facts that relate to the crime of Perugia, but also a defamation of my person and my character - writes the young man - I often hear people who I have never met and who do not know anything about the trial, saying that I am a liar, a fool and so on."

"I am a liar, why would the judges say that, but then what is the truth? I have always tried to say what I saw and heard on that tragic night, not slander anyone and accuse innocent people," continues Guede. "The justice [system] must seek the truth and not me, but there will be no truth for Meredith as long as it is called sexual assault, a crime that I never committed and that the coroners ruled [out?]."

"This is the story of pain, those who speak of it should never forget it. [They] forget the pain, concludes Rudy Guede - those, who speak disrespectfully of this story as if it were at the bar, where you can chat superficially without being acquainted with facts."


GIORNALETTISMO

Kercher murder, Rudy Guede from prison: "I'm not a liar"

LA NAZIONE
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I will quote a comment written by chami over at TJMK that I found very interesting. It is about the process of DNA testing.

Quote:
There has been lots of discussion on “the amount of DNA is so small…”

I want to make a few comments on this because some of these points are plain wrong outright but I am not going to quote any one.

The total DNA in a single human cell is about 6 pg. one pg is one trillionth part of a gram. The DNA is present within the chromosomes along with proteins. These are normally nicely and tightly packed and will be about 2 meters in length if fully extended.

If we find a sample with 3 pg of DNA, it simply means that the DNA has been severely damaged and only 50% of the DNA is available. If we find 1 pg of DNA, we should think that it is some contamination from some spoilt sample. We shall always expect DNA will be 6, 12, 18 pg because the smallest amount will be 6 pg only. Of course this is for clean samples.

One thing we also must remember that these amounts reported in papers are often very approximate because the samples are very difficult to assay. +/-30% error is common and routine.

These samples are multiplied by biochemical methods and millions of copies are made. These samples are now analysed in the same machine after treating with enzymes. During these copying process, some mistakes happen and these are often propagated (these mistakes are automatically corrected in living cells by several enzymes). These appear as noise.

If the original sample is in good condition, the amount of sample really does not matter. Even one single DNA can be amplified and analysed. If the sample collected is not good quality, then we have some problem.

During the sample collection, attempt is made to collect from an area which is apparently homogeneous at least visually. We also try to collect as much sample as possible from a small area. It is more important to collect good sample rather than lots of it.

If you have 6 pg of DNA it cannot be divided in two parts. If you do that, one part will have 6 pg and the other part will have none of it.

Posted by chami on 11/02/13 at 03:35 AM | #
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Latest from Andrea Vogt: http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featu ... -appeal-2/

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:06 am   Post subject: 6 YRS AGO...   

r-(( Meredith Kercher, RIP r-((
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

From Andrea's latest article, a picture of the bagged sample 36-i in Vecchiotti's lab fridge:



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Summary of tonight's episode of Quarto Grado:

Fourth Degree last episode November 1, 2013

No mention of an "interview" with Rudy Guede from prison; just his lawyer present in the studio, and a letter from Rudy was read.

On November 1, six years ago, Meredith Kercher was killed. For the first time after his sentence of 16 years, Rudy Guede breaks his silence and writes a letter from prison to the Fourth Degree:
.....
Text of the letter
.....
Guede's lawyer, Nicodemo Gentile, confirms what was written by his client. Remo Croci meanwhile emphasizes things that have never been tested or analyzed: traces of semen on a a pillowcase found under the back of Meredith and DNA traces on the stone used to break the window of the room in Via della Pergola, to simulate a theft or commit it.


Attachment:
Nicodemo Gentile, Rudy Guede's lawyer, on Quarto Grado.jpg


"Fourth Degree" learns that the young computer engineer [Raffaele Sollecito] went from Puglia to the cemetery on the outskirts of London, where the student killed in Perugia is buried: a visit made in late 2011, shortly after the acquittal on appeal. Sollecito informed Meredith's family of his intention, but came accompanied by his English friend, to say a prayer in memory of Mez, who died on November 1, six years ago. Next Wednesday Raffaele Sollecito will be in the courtroom in Florence at the resumption of the appeal trial in which he is accused along with Amanda Knox. As announced, at the hearing he will make a spontaneous declaration. His return to Italy is scheduled for tomorrow. [Saturday? Sunday?]


CRIMEBLOG


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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Did they mention the date of that letter? Since he mentions Alessi, it seems this is just an old letter. So much for an 'interview' :roll:
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:


According to Andrea Vogt's article there is more than just the 91-page report.

From her article:

Quote:
Next week, an appeals court in Florence will begin debating the 242 page report deposited with the court, which includes a 91-page forensic report on the “I” trace of DNA found on the kitchen knife believed to be the murder weapon, 85 pages of supporting analytic data and 66 pages from the court files.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Their brief was only to analyse the "I" trace, wasn't it?

They will not be commenting on the validity of finding Meredith's DNA in the "B" sample.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
Their brief was only to analyse the "I" trace, wasn't it?

They will not be commenting on the validity of finding Meredith's DNA in the "B" sample.


That is correct. The independent experts Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti from the first appeal were supposed to do that but refused.
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Offline Admire


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Their brief was only to analyse the "I" trace, wasn't it?

They will not be commenting on the validity of finding Meredith's DNA in the "B" sample.


That is correct. The independent experts Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti from the first appeal were supposed to do that but refused.


I generally only post on True Justice and read a little on the sidelines here, but I had to ask a question here....Those B samples are still in play right? This brief won't be about them, but they are still valid right? My understanding was that the supreme court didn't accept hellman's ruling
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Admire wrote:
Nell wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Their brief was only to analyse the "I" trace, wasn't it?

They will not be commenting on the validity of finding Meredith's DNA in the "B" sample.


That is correct. The independent experts Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti from the first appeal were supposed to do that but refused.


I generally only post on True Justice and read a little on the sidelines here, but I had to ask a question here....Those B samples are still in play right? This brief won't be about them, but they are still valid right? My understanding was that the supreme court didn't accept hellman's ruling


Hello Admire and welcome to the forum!

Dra. Stefanoni's findings concerning trace "B" are still in the body of evidence, but how the new judges and jury will weigh this evidence, we can only speculate.

It cannot be ignored though that the new tests on trace "I" were ordered only because Carla Vecchiotti refused to do so in 2011.

I find it a bit odd that Raffaele Sollecito's DNA was nowhere to be found on his own knife, only Amanda's and Meredith's.

That would suggest he let his new conquest do the cooking and wash the dishes. Now, everyone knows Knox was not much into housework and that if he wasn't preparing fish or pasta, they were ordering pizza. Both defendants expressed extreme worries about this particular knife and Sollecito even invented a lie to innocently explain Meredith's DNA away.

He recently admitted on Twitter to have lied about cooking together with Meredith.

So as far as I am concerned, Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife is damning. That is my opinion, but we will wait to see how the court decides.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

A Wiki entry

The role of the jury is described as that of a finder of fact, while the judge is seen as having the sole responsibility of interpreting the appropriate law and instructing the jury accordingly. The jury determines the truth or falsity factual allegations and renders a verdict on whether a criminal defendant is guilty, or a civil defendant is civilly liable.


In the Corte d'Assise, decisions concerning both fact and law matters are taken by the stipendiary judges and "Lay Judges" together at a special meeting behind closed doors, named Camera di Consiglio ("Counsel Chamber"), and the Court is subsequently required to publish written explanations of its decisions within 90 days from the verdict. Errors of law or inconsistencies in the explanation of a decision can and usually will lead to the annulment of the decision.

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:

I find it a bit odd that Raffaele Sollecito's DNA was nowhere to be found on his own knife, only Amanda's and Meredith's.



I have always suspected that RS does not have DNA. All his DNA flew off ...
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Nell wrote:

I find it a bit odd that Raffaele Sollecito's DNA was nowhere to be found on his own knife, only Amanda's and Meredith's.



I have always suspected that RS does not have DNA. All his DNA flew off ...


Indeed, but... will he fly in?

I still do not believe it.

Somehow, I think, if he does show up, he will be arrested, before or after attending court, is that possible Chami? I would say on the grounds of the police not believing he will stick around to hear the outcome, but would only be coming to make his spontaneous statement.

I'm guessing if he shows up, makes his statement he'll be on the very next quiet way out of Italy (hiding in a truck rather than taking a plane) immediately but the reason for him attending, if he does, would in fact be that he just wants to get this statement in. I just cannot see him waiting for the outcomeof the trial.

Can you?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes his father will have him on a fishing boot from Bari to Greece within the hour.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Coffee break


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
Their brief was only to analyse the "I" trace, wasn't it?

They will not be commenting on the validity of finding Meredith's DNA in the "B" sample.


That is correct. The 10,000 page evidence file, Massei and Stefanoni's findings, are all in play.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Admire wrote:
Nell wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Their brief was only to analyse the "I" trace, wasn't it?

They will not be commenting on the validity of finding Meredith's DNA in the "B" sample.


That is correct. The independent experts Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti from the first appeal were supposed to do that but refused.


I generally only post on True Justice and read a little on the sidelines here, but I had to ask a question here....Those B samples are still in play right? This brief won't be about them, but they are still valid right? My understanding was that the supreme court didn't accept hellman's ruling


Hello Admire and welcome to the forum!

Dra. Stefanoni's findings concerning trace "B" are still in the body of evidence, but how the new judges and jury will weigh this evidence, we can only speculate.

It cannot be ignored though that the new tests on trace "I" were ordered only because Carla Vecchiotti refused to do so in 2011.

I find it a bit odd that Raffaele Sollecito's DNA was nowhere to be found on his own knife, only Amanda's and Meredith's.

That would suggest he let his new conquest do the cooking and wash the dishes. Now, everyone knows Knox was not much into housework and that if he wasn't preparing fish or pasta, they were ordering pizza. Both defendants expressed extreme worries about this particular knife and Sollecito even invented a lie to innocently explain Meredith's DNA away.

He recently admitted on Twitter to have lied about cooking together with Meredith.

So as far as I am concerned, Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife is damning. That is my opinion, but we will wait to see how the court decides.

Sollecito cooked a fish dinner and washed the dishes before his father's call the night of the murder. The three days following were filled with time spent at the police station. He dined out with friends on The 5th and Amanda had been at class that day. So little time why would Amanda be cooking so much being so stressed and tired?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Nell wrote:

I find it a bit odd that Raffaele Sollecito's DNA was nowhere to be found on his own knife, only Amanda's and Meredith's.



I have always suspected that RS does not have DNA. All his DNA flew off ...


Michael stated that Sollecito said, somewhere (maybe in his book), that he always used his penknife to cook, that is something I do not believe.

A penknife is something that a person doesn't usually wash, all of the water would get in the wrong areas that you cannot get at to dry, so you'd have to shake it then leave it placed the right way up to get it to dry (drain) properly, or otherwise shove it back in your pocket still wet, what kind of people invited to dinner would take a look at what you are doing and say, hey, you are cutting with a penknife (and not think, huh, that's dirty), nice?

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Yes a pen knife would not be very "chef" like or efficient to chop with. I could see him pulling it out of his pocket to peel an apple or something after a meal. He doesn't accidentally prick Meredith with his pocket knife ,he was taking about the knife in question or chef knife.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Admire wrote:
Nell wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Their brief was only to analyse the "I" trace, wasn't it?

They will not be commenting on the validity of finding Meredith's DNA in the "B" sample.


That is correct. The independent experts Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti from the first appeal were supposed to do that but refused.


I generally only post on True Justice and read a little on the sidelines here, but I had to ask a question here....Those B samples are still in play right? This brief won't be about them, but they are still valid right? My understanding was that the supreme court didn't accept hellman's ruling


Welcome, Admire, and please do ask questions here, you might get different answers! ;) Yes, as Nell says, "trace" B is in play. So, too are Amanda's traces in A and I. But to add, while Hellmann's ruling has been annulled, the Conti and Vecchiotti report has not, and will be discussed as well. The Supreme Court faulted their not checking for profiles on trace I, so the new experts had to check that. C&V has taken a massive blow to their credibility because the carabinieri experts found Amanda Knox's profile instead of just starch. The defense will be arguing a)contamination and b)tertiary transfer (ETA: Of Meredith's profile) over the next court hearings, and the judges will give it their due consideration, which might not be much.

But one thing to remember. This case isn't only about the knife. The court has had all this time to consider the body of evidence and Massei's findings, and the prosecution and defense might try to strengthen or weaken the case, but, there you go. It will certainly be exciting times for the appeal ahead.

And the other person on trial, will, I have now changed my mind, probably be there to say he is innocent. The bra clasp will be discussed, the sightings of him and Amanda will be considered, he is up shit creek and so he has to speak one more time. By returning to Italy he shows he isn't a flight risk.

Yes, the DNA is important. Will Hampikian be flying in to testify? Double LOL.

But, the sightings of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito by Curatolo, of Knox by Quintavalle, the staged break in, the false accusation, the mixed blood and DNA, the bathmat, the scream heard by Capezalli and running footsteps, all 10,000 pages of evidence will be considered if not argued, as well as, the chewed fingernails ;)

Interesting times.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Yes a pen knife would not be very "chef" like or efficient to chop with. I could see him pulling it out of his pocket to peel an apple or something after a meal. He doesn't accidentally prick Meredith with his pocket knife ,he was taking about the knife in question or chef knife.


Hi, malvern. The Brian Tighe pocket knife that was confiscated had a red stain on the clasp side. No blood was found, and some indication it was used to cut pizza !
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
Yes his father will have him on a fishing boot from Bari to Greece within the hour.


The Costa Bambino Difficile?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Malvern wrote:
Sollecito cooked a fish dinner and washed the dishes before his father's call the night of the murder. The three days following were filled with time spent at the police station. He dined out with friends on The 5th and Amanda had been at class that day. So little time why would Amanda be cooking so much being so stressed and tired?



Are you sure about that? The only source for cooking fish was Knox and that was only to try and explain a memory of seeing blood all over Sollecito's hands. It was a National holiday in Italy and Perugia, fresh fish were not available that day. In fact, the reported blood on his hands is clearly a red flag and an incriminating clue.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
chami wrote:
Nell wrote:

I find it a bit odd that Raffaele Sollecito's DNA was nowhere to be found on his own knife, only Amanda's and Meredith's.



I have always suspected that RS does not have DNA. All his DNA flew off ...


Michael stated that Sollecito said, somewhere (maybe in his book), that he always used his penknife to cook, that is something I do not believe.

A penknife is something that a person doesn't usually wash, all of the water would get in the wrong areas that you cannot get at to dry, so you'd have to shake it then leave it placed the right way up to get it to dry (drain) properly, or otherwise shove it back in your pocket still wet, what kind of people invited to dinner would take a look at what you are doing and say, hey, you are cutting with a penknife (and not think, huh, that's dirty), nice?


I hate to be picky, but Sollecito's knives were not "penknives".

He stated that he always used his pocket knife to prepare food in one of his letters. The reason he felt he needed to reveal that, was because he wanted to try and distance himself from the kitchen knife.

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
Malvern wrote:
Sollecito cooked a fish dinner and washed the dishes before his father's call the night of the murder. The three days following were filled with time spent at the police station. He dined out with friends on The 5th and Amanda had been at class that day. So little time why would Amanda be cooking so much being so stressed and tired?



Are you sure about that? The only source for cooking fish was Knox and that was only to try and explain a memory of seeing blood all over Sollecito's hands. It was a National holiday in Italy and Perugia, fresh fish were not available that day. In fact, the reported blood on his hands is clearly a red flag and an incriminating clue.

Yes I meant that Amanda was the source the fish story.Sollecito confirmed he washed the dishes and told his father that in his call at 8:40. I would think most meals after that night involved very little if any cooking.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Yes a pen knife would not be very "chef" like or efficient to chop with. I could see him pulling it out of his pocket to peel an apple or something after a meal. He doesn't accidentally prick Meredith with his pocket knife ,he was taking about the knife in question or chef knife.



I can imagine someone having a knife on them to cut an apple too, in Italy, years ago, I'm not sure now, I saw that it was pretty normal for everyone, or lots of people to have a knife to cut bread, etc, these days though, I think having any kind of knife even a small one, isn't too good, like you want to get on a plane, and then you are carrying a knife, I mean, things are strict. Still, in the country, where I was in Italy, maybe it is still normal.

Yes how many contradictions, and does making up yet another version, much later on, help anything?

First he pricked Meredith, later when he finds out none of his own traces are on the knife, it's I never used any knives except my pocket knife, and then, yet another version, I only dreamed I had pricked Meredith in the hand because I was in solitary. I think it's safe to say, not one version of anything he ever said can be believed or weighed up. Might as well ignore it all completely.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Michael wrote:
Malvern wrote:
Sollecito cooked a fish dinner and washed the dishes before his father's call the night of the murder. The three days following were filled with time spent at the police station. He dined out with friends on The 5th and Amanda had been at class that day. So little time why would Amanda be cooking so much being so stressed and tired?



Are you sure about that? The only source for cooking fish was Knox and that was only to try and explain a memory of seeing blood all over Sollecito's hands. It was a National holiday in Italy and Perugia, fresh fish were not available that day. In fact, the reported blood on his hands is clearly a red flag and an incriminating clue.

Yes I meant that Amanda was the source the fish story.Sollecito confirmed he washed the dishes and told his father that in his call at 8:40. I would think most meals after that night involved very little if any cooking.



He told his father he had washed the dishes. He also told him there had been a leak. However, aside from Sollecito claiming it we have no evidence either actually happened. Sollecito could have been lying to his father.

The reason why I won't give Sollecito the benefit of the doubt on either point, is that I have reached the point where I'm solely of the view that this murder was premeditated. From that perspective, the whole mop rubbish was most probably also planned in advance in order to provide an explanation for Knox having to go to the cottage and provide an excuse should she have been caught mop and rags in hand. Therefore, this could have been told to Papa Sollecito in order to seed credibility for the story in advance.

Note: This is actually supported by the fact that Sollecito's ubend was found "snapped" by investigators. I do not find it credible that Sollecito's ubend was snapped for a whole five days...how would Sollecito and Knox maintained things in his kitchen with a busted sink for that long? Moreover, ubend pipes don't simply snap. Indicates to me that it was deliberately snapped on or just before 5 Nov in order to provide physical "evidence" for Knox and Sollecito's "Leak & Mop" tale.

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:

Note: This is actually supported by the fact that Sollecito's ubend was found "snapped" by investigators. I do not find it credible that Sollecito's ubend was snapped for a whole five days...how would Sollecito and Knox maintained things in his kitchen with a busted sink for that long? Moreover, ubend pipes don't simply snap. Indicates to me that it was deliberately snapped on or just before 5 Nov in order to provide physical "evidence" for Knox and Sollecito's "Leak & Mop" tale.


It is more than that.

The plastic pipe you are calling a "Ubend" is actually a trap where the heavy objects collect and stay for sometime. If the diamond from your marriage ring comes off while you are washing the dishes, the diamond will collect in the trap and can be safely recovered. Blood clots can be recovered from the trap even after days. You cannot clean the trap so easily and it was deliberately removed so that nothing can be recovered from the "washings" of the evidences.

The planning was ok but the execution was sloppy.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
Nell wrote:
Admire wrote:
Nell wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Their brief was only to analyse the "I" trace, wasn't it?

They will not be commenting on the validity of finding Meredith's DNA in the "B" sample.


That is correct. The independent experts Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti from the first appeal were supposed to do that but refused.


I generally only post on True Justice and read a little on the sidelines here, but I had to ask a question here....Those B samples are still in play right? This brief won't be about them, but they are still valid right? My understanding was that the supreme court didn't accept hellman's ruling


Hello Admire and welcome to the forum!

Dra. Stefanoni's findings concerning trace "B" are still in the body of evidence, but how the new judges and jury will weigh this evidence, we can only speculate.

It cannot be ignored though that the new tests on trace "I" were ordered only because Carla Vecchiotti refused to do so in 2011.

I find it a bit odd that Raffaele Sollecito's DNA was nowhere to be found on his own knife, only Amanda's and Meredith's.

That would suggest he let his new conquest do the cooking and wash the dishes. Now, everyone knows Knox was not much into housework and that if he wasn't preparing fish or pasta, they were ordering pizza. Both defendants expressed extreme worries about this particular knife and Sollecito even invented a lie to innocently explain Meredith's DNA away.

He recently admitted on Twitter to have lied about cooking together with Meredith.

So as far as I am concerned, Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife is damning. That is my opinion, but we will wait to see how the court decides.

Sollecito cooked a fish dinner and washed the dishes before his father's call the night of the murder. The three days following were filled with time spent at the police station. He dined out with friends on The 5th and Amanda had been at class that day. So little time why would Amanda be cooking so much being so stressed and tired?


If Knox was the "cook" In the relationship, why did she voluntarily state that Sollecito looked after her, cooked for her and always wanted to hug/help her? (Massei page 62)

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

If the murder was premeditated that would explain the phones shut off at the same time. It would also explain why there would be no concern of Meredith reporting a hazing attack. Even though it was Amanda who had the personal issues with Meredith it may have been Sollecito's fantasy that led the way.An obsession and new girlfriend showing him the opportunity may have launched the plan. I just cannot see Sollecito planning a murder unless the idea was one he liked. if on the otherhand the attack was not thought out and just evolved I could see Amanda taking a bigger role.Guede when naming the accused seems to place more blame on Sollecito if he can be believed at all.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:
zorba wrote:
Yes his father will have him on a fishing boot from Bari to Greece within the hour.


The Costa Bambino Difficile?



Think so yes, good name, actually the Costa Crusoe Bambino Stronzo


Hey Ergon, that about why Sollecito would be returning, in my view, is not about him showing he is not a flight risk, it's about trying to create the impression that he is not on the run, because if he attends, leaves, then the court will have the impression of him being around, not running, even though, as I said, if he does show up, he'll be gone again immediately, I'm guessing and my guess is as good a yours as we can't know, we will see.

If he were not to attend then they in court have the idea of him, running, disobeying the law, disobeying as in, should they decise to find him guilty, he would not be around, and he does not want them to have that idea about him.
That's why if he does show up and does leave, nobody will know he left again, since I reckon he will slip away, not use a plane, and that is not too hard to do, slip into France, or Switzerland, probably France since he finds the Swizz are indiscrete, or a discrete boat from Sicily the folk there are not unknown for bending rules, or from Sardinia, or head North East, into the ex, Yugo countries.

Anyhow, my best is he ai'nt a coming
And, if he does, he's straight back out of there, only if he does what I'm thinking, nobody will know until later, that he did in fact leave, like only when he is again found guilty and they want to arrest him, but he is not at their disposal.

So again, I'm guessing he'll have worked out they know he's bound to do this kind of stuff and if he does show up, he will be arrested as a flight risk, so they'd keep him at least until the court makes its ruling. I'd be the judge who rules that Sollecito needs to be grabbed.

Micheli gave 3 reasons for why he had to detain them, at the time I wrote on PMF (before it was divided) what the 3 reasons might be, before Micheli came out with them; I came across the possibilities in the Italian penal code. He used all 3.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Michael wrote:

Note: This is actually supported by the fact that Sollecito's ubend was found "snapped" by investigators. I do not find it credible that Sollecito's ubend was snapped for a whole five days...how would Sollecito and Knox maintained things in his kitchen with a busted sink for that long? Moreover, ubend pipes don't simply snap. Indicates to me that it was deliberately snapped on or just before 5 Nov in order to provide physical "evidence" for Knox and Sollecito's "Leak & Mop" tale.


It is more than that.

The plastic pipe you are calling a "Ubend" is actually a trap where the heavy objects collect and stay for sometime. If the diamond from your marriage ring comes off while you are washing the dishes, the diamond will collect in the trap and can be safely recovered. Blood clots can be recovered from the trap even after days. You cannot clean the trap so easily and it was deliberately removed so that nothing can be recovered from the "washings" of the evidences.

The planning was ok but the execution was sloppy.



Exactly!!! And we know the pair are fond of staging scenes. The leak/broken sink was just as much a staging as the staged break-in. And the fact that they were setting the scene for this staging to Sollecito's dad BEFORE the murder is strong evidence, to me, that Meredith's murder was premeditated.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
If the murder was premeditated that would explain the phones shut off at the same time. It would also explain why there would be no concern of Meredith reporting a hazing attack. Even though it was Amanda who had the personal issues with Meredith it may have been Sollecito's fantasy that led the way.An obsession and new girlfriend showing him the opportunity may have launched the plan. I just cannot see Sollecito planning a murder unless the idea was one he liked. if on the otherhand the attack was not thought out and just evolved I could see Amanda taking a bigger role.Guede when naming the accused seems to place more blame on Sollecito if he can be believed at all.


Knox had probably teased Sollecito with the idea of a threesome. Perhaps Guede was there as a backup in the event that threesome didn't go over too well.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

malvern wrote:
If the murder was premeditated that would explain the phones shut off at the same time. It would also explain why there would be no concern of Meredith reporting a hazing attack. Even though it was Amanda who had the personal issues with Meredith it may have been Sollecito's fantasy that led the way.An obsession and new girlfriend showing him the opportunity may have launched the plan. I just cannot see Sollecito planning a murder unless the idea was one he liked. if on the otherhand the attack was not thought out and just evolved I could see Amanda taking a bigger role.Guede when naming the accused seems to place more blame on Sollecito if he can be believed at all.


Yes, it all mounts up and collectively, once you see it, it can never be dismissed.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
zorba wrote:
chami wrote:
Nell wrote:

I find it a bit odd that Raffaele Sollecito's DNA was nowhere to be found on his own knife, only Amanda's and Meredith's.



I have always suspected that RS does not have DNA. All his DNA flew off ...


Michael stated that Sollecito said, somewhere (maybe in his book), that he always used his penknife to cook, that is something I do not believe.

A penknife is something that a person doesn't usually wash, all of the water would get in the wrong areas that you cannot get at to dry, so you'd have to shake it then leave it placed the right way up to get it to dry (drain) properly, or otherwise shove it back in your pocket still wet, what kind of people invited to dinner would take a look at what you are doing and say, hey, you are cutting with a penknife (and not think, huh, that's dirty), nice?


I hate to be picky, but Sollecito's knives were not "penknives".

He stated that he always used his pocket knife to prepare food in one of his letters. The reason he felt he needed to reveal that, was because he wanted to try and distance himself from the kitchen knife.



What a penknife was originally is not what it became, and then it depends what you want to base it on, like who's laws; The case of Bacon v. State in 1991 found that a penknife is still a penknife even if it is huge or small, open or closed, has a lock or not, and carried concealed or in the open. Bacon was found not guilty of carrying a dangerous weapon when he was carrying a Buck knife. A Buck knife is a folding knife that locks into place in the open position.
See http://www.knifeup.com/maryland-knife-laws/

Penknife, pocketknife, both carried in the pocket, penknife originally to sharpen quills to write, but that was long ago, anyhow, which one was it again that he carried around all the time? was that a Brian T type knife?

Basically, he does not see that changing such a story every 5 minutes doesn't help to make things believable

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Michael wrote:

Note: This is actually supported by the fact that Sollecito's ubend was found "snapped" by investigators. I do not find it credible that Sollecito's ubend was snapped for a whole five days...how would Sollecito and Knox maintained things in his kitchen with a busted sink for that long? Moreover, ubend pipes don't simply snap. Indicates to me that it was deliberately snapped on or just before 5 Nov in order to provide physical "evidence" for Knox and Sollecito's "Leak & Mop" tale.


It is more than that.

The plastic pipe you are calling a "Ubend" is actually a trap where the heavy objects collect and stay for sometime. If the diamond from your marriage ring comes off while you are washing the dishes, the diamond will collect in the trap and can be safely recovered. Blood clots can be recovered from the trap even after days. You cannot clean the trap so easily and it was deliberately removed so that nothing can be recovered from the "washings" of the evidences.

The planning was ok but the execution was sloppy.



Yes, PVC gooseneck/swan's neck piping for sink drainage (it serves to hold a little water in at all times to stop nasty smells from being released, if you were to have a direct tube/pipe, then once the water is shifted the stink from the sewer would be released into your house. I know from working at home, etc, I noticed an awful smell and couldn't work out where it was coming from, then I found it and it all dawned on me.

You know, I'd never thought about that and never heard any one saying that before, yes indeed; took it to bits to bleach it clean too.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php ... us_knives/

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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/the_chilling_killing_propensities_of_sollecitos_various_knives/


I believe RS went to the police station with the knife shown in Fig 2 (in the above reference). This also has a small but clearly visible stain on the pocket clip that looks like blood.

The knife-kid's extreme obsession with knife (or is it AK) is the only reason (that I can think of) that he refused to get rid of the murder weapons (or AK, take your pick). I did not hear much about the knife and the shoes police confiscated at the police station.

What goes in must come out.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I think Knox kept the knife because she likes trophys. Just look at her collection of Meredith on her site.

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Offline Admire


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
Admire wrote:
Nell wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Their brief was only to analyse the "I" trace, wasn't it?

They will not be commenting on the validity of finding Meredith's DNA in the "B" sample.


That is correct. The independent experts Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti from the first appeal were supposed to do that but refused.


I generally only post on True Justice and read a little on the sidelines here, but I had to ask a question here....Those B samples are still in play right? This brief won't be about them, but they are still valid right? My understanding was that the supreme court didn't accept hellman's ruling


Hello Admire and welcome to the forum!

Dra. Stefanoni's findings concerning trace "B" are still in the body of evidence, but how the new judges and jury will weigh this evidence, we can only speculate.

It cannot be ignored though that the new tests on trace "I" were ordered only because Carla Vecchiotti refused to do so in 2011.

I find it a bit odd that Raffaele Sollecito's DNA was nowhere to be found on his own knife, only Amanda's and Meredith's.

That would suggest he let his new conquest do the cooking and wash the dishes. Now, everyone knows Knox was not much into housework and that if he wasn't preparing fish or pasta, they were ordering pizza. Both defendants expressed extreme worries about this particular knife and Sollecito even invented a lie to innocently explain Meredith's DNA away.

He recently admitted on Twitter to have lied about cooking together with Meredith.

So as far as I am concerned, Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife is damning. That is my opinion, but we will wait to see how the court decides.


Thanks for the welcome.....I was almost sure that it would "count" but had to be sure..



Ergon wrote:
Admire wrote:
Nell wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Their brief was only to analyse the "I" trace, wasn't it?

They will not be commenting on the validity of finding Meredith's DNA in the "B" sample.


That is correct. The independent experts Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti from the first appeal were supposed to do that but refused.


I generally only post on True Justice and read a little on the sidelines here, but I had to ask a question here....Those B samples are still in play right? This brief won't be about them, but they are still valid right? My understanding was that the supreme court didn't accept hellman's ruling


Welcome, Admire, and please do ask questions here, you might get different answers! ;) Yes, as Nell says, "trace" B is in play. So, too are Amanda's traces in A and I. But to add, while Hellmann's ruling has been annulled, the Conti and Vecchiotti report has not, and will be discussed as well. The Supreme Court faulted their not checking for profiles on trace I, so the new experts had to check that. C&V has taken a massive blow to their credibility because the carabinieri experts found Amanda Knox's profile instead of just starch. The defense will be arguing a)contamination and b)tertiary transfer (ETA: Of Meredith's profile) over the next court hearings, and the judges will give it their due consideration, which might not be much.

But one thing to remember. This case isn't only about the knife. The court has had all this time to consider the body of evidence and Massei's findings, and the prosecution and defense might try to strengthen or weaken the case, but, there you go. It will certainly be exciting times for the appeal ahead.

And the other person on trial, will, I have now changed my mind, probably be there to say he is innocent. The bra clasp will be discussed, the sightings of him and Amanda will be considered, he is up shit creek and so he has to speak one more time. By returning to Italy he shows he isn't a flight risk.

Yes, the DNA is important. Will Hampikian be flying in to testify? Double LOL.

But, the sightings of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito by Curatolo, of Knox by Quintavalle, the staged break in, the false accusation, the mixed blood and DNA, the bathmat, the scream heard by Capezalli and running footsteps, all 10,000 pages of evidence will be considered if not argued, as well as, the chewed fingernails ;)

Interesting times.


Thank you too Ergun. I will have plenty of questions.
I sometimes have a tough time remembering what belongs to which part of the investigation and the trials.

but I just have to take breaks for reading about this case...I simply don't have the strength. This was the first murder case I really followed intensely and the appeal decision was like a punch in "THAT AREA"......

I was unsure whether everything was going to be in play but very happy that it is. The knife is without a doubt not the entire case, but it is still a big part. But the things that actually convinced me the most was the staged break in, the bathmat and maybe amanda's lamp behind the door.
I am a born cynic, so I am always far less optimistic than most of the rest who follow this case, but the problem has always been that there are massive amounts of circumstantial evidence, but not a lot of things that prove without any doubt.....Hellman's biggest failure was to just talk about each of those circumstantial things individually which is just not the way things are done in court. Im positive that he was paid off.

"The defense will be arguing a)contamination and b)tertiary transfer " I just don't understand how they can do that now.......Tertiary transfer makes no sense. If the DNA on the knife were Raffaelle's, they could explain Amanda's DNA as tertiary transfer but how the hell would Meredith DNA be transferred like that?
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
I think Knox kept the knife because she likes trophys. Just look at her collection of Meredith on her site.


The knife was part of the apartment inventory so if missing it would be noticed. Raffaele was supposed to move out Oct 30th but had extended his stay till November 14th.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
I think Knox kept the knife because she likes trophys. Just look at her collection of Meredith on her site.


The knife was part of the apartment inventory so if missing it would be noticed. Raffaele was supposed to move out Oct 30th but had extended his stay till November 14th.



It was a pretty generic cheap knife, easily enough replaced with another that looked very similar. Sollecito had lived there for about two years, a long time since landlord would have last had a look at the knife and one can be sure the inventory would not have had a detailed description of it. Would the landlord have noticed the difference? I really don't think so.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
zorba wrote:
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/the_chilling_killing_propensities_of_sollecitos_various_knives/


I believe RS went to the police station with the knife shown in Fig 2 (in the above reference). This also has a small but clearly visible stain on the pocket clip that looks like blood.

The knife-kid's extreme obsession with knife (or is it AK) is the only reason (that I can think of) that he refused to get rid of the murder weapons (or AK, take your pick). I did not hear much about the knife and the shoes police confiscated at the police station.

What goes in must come out.


Yes, looking again at the knives in that link and no.2, though it is not large, it is a mean looking thing.

It is indeed nothing like what I have in pop in my head at the mention of the world penknife.

Penknife is like a little doggy, and that thing looks like a pitbull, with the way it is shaped n all, very strong, mean looking, I do not like it.

This afternoon, when I looked up the definitions of knives, I found myself on a website in Sheffield, UK, a specialist producer of knives since the 40s, but though they obviously aren't made by anyone with the intention people buy them to kill people, I couldn't help think of all of the wrong types of people who are catered to by knife makers.

The knives on the site I was looking at were really specialised objects, still, I had to get off the page as I have no intention of getting into that too.
There were all sorts and shapes with handles made of stag's horn, etc, you name it is available.

In the link with the knives on TJMK, that big dagger one, to think the guy had it hanging above his bed, I mean, who in the world does such a thing?
I don't think I have ever even seen soldiers do that and how romantic too!!!! above the bed!!!

When I read that looking at the picture I imagined things like that burrowing into Knox's head, all of those knives around like that, even if his collection was at his dad's home, seems he made it clear what his hobby was.

My opinion on the keeping of that knife was that they considered it convenient.

I think too, if it was part of the inventory, you just don't know how well someone remembers stuff but I DO know that in Italy they know their stuff, they're very particular about everything they do.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Michael wrote:
McCall wrote:
Michael wrote:
I think Knox kept the knife because she likes trophys. Just look at her collection of Meredith on her site.


The knife was part of the apartment inventory so if missing it would be noticed. Raffaele was supposed to move out Oct 30th but had extended his stay till November 14th.



It was a pretty generic cheap knife, easily enough replaced with another that looked very similar. Sollecito had lived there for about two years, a long time since landlord would have last had a look at the knife and one can be sure the inventory would not have had a detailed description of it. Would the landlord have noticed the difference? I really don't think so.


Even if the landlord had noticed the difference, Sollecito could have claimed to have lost or broken it and replaced it with a new one. A person with a guilty conscience might have trouble to find this convincing. He will assume everything might seem suspicious because he knows the truth and lives with the constant fear others will suspect him.

I can only speculate of course, but I believe Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were not concerned about the knife at all. They underestimated the investigation.

Raffaele Sollecito made his first mistake when he told Kate Mansey he went to a party. To police he told a different story, that he was at his apartment with Amanda. The other roommates could quickly be excluded as suspects, but not Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, who were the only ones who could only vouch for each other and started to get caught up in their own lies.

It is my belief that Sollecito intended to keep this knife, even if he moved. He does not seem to have any problems making lies up, so the landlord - if he even noticed - would have received a replacement. They kept the knife because they thought they would never be suspected and Sollecito's flat never be searched. After thoroughly cleaning the knife they probably assumed it was safe to keep it.
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Offline jaybee51


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Then do you think they kept the second knife too? Could it be one of RS's flick knives?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Here you can see one of Amanda Knox's most rabid supporters, notorious @GuilterWatchin, trying to lecture forensic expert Dale Yeager about the DNA evidence.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

jaybee51 wrote:
Then do you think they kept the second knife too? Could it be one of RS's flick knives?


Yes, I believe they kept the second knife too and I assume it is one of Sollecito's combat knife collection.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

I think that they're both just dumb and overlooked some things in their panic after the murder. They left, changed clothes and got rid of them and the phones, and may have left the knife at the cottage originally, or possibly threw it in Raffaele's sink and forgot about it when disposing of the other articles. When they returned, it was too late to include it with the other items and too dangerous to leave his apartment with it, so they cleaned it and returned it to the drawer.
Sollecito worried about 'rags' in his prison diary, in connection to the knife. I believe other items used in the cleanup are missing, so why not those rags? I believe they took the drain apart and cleaned it after cleaning the knife. Keeping the knife was, IMO, an oversight. Similar to leaving the lamp in Meredith's room.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
chami wrote:
zorba wrote:
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/the_chilling_killing_propensities_of_sollecitos_various_knives/


I believe RS went to the police station with the knife shown in Fig 2 (in the above reference). This also has a small but clearly visible stain on the pocket clip that looks like blood.

The knife-kid's extreme obsession with knife (or is it AK) is the only reason (that I can think of) that he refused to get rid of the murder weapons (or AK, take your pick). I did not hear much about the knife and the shoes police confiscated at the police station.

What goes in must come out.


Yes, looking again at the knives in that link and no.2, though it is not large, it is a mean looking thing.

It is indeed nothing like what I have in pop in my head at the mention of the world penknife.

Penknife is like a little doggy, and that thing looks like a pitbull, with the way it is shaped n all, very strong, mean looking, I do not like it.

This afternoon, when I looked up the definitions of knives, I found myself on a website in Sheffield, UK, a specialist producer of knives since the 40s, but though they obviously aren't made by anyone with the intention people buy them to kill people, I couldn't help think of all of the wrong types of people who are catered to by knife makers.

The knives on the site I was looking at were really specialised objects, still, I had to get off the page as I have no intention of getting into that too.
There were all sorts and shapes with handles made of stag's horn, etc, you name it is available.

In the link with the knives on TJMK, that big dagger one, to think the guy had it hanging above his bed, I mean, who in the world does such a thing?
I don't think I have ever even seen soldiers do that and how romantic too!!!! above the bed!!!

When I read that looking at the picture I imagined things like that burrowing into Knox's head, all of those knives around like that, even if his collection was at his dad's home, seems he made it clear what his hobby was.

My opinion on the keeping of that knife was that they considered it convenient.

I think too, if it was part of the inventory, you just don't know how well someone remembers stuff but I DO know that in Italy they know their stuff, they're very particular about everything they do.


I agree. Plus they were so blinded by their youthful delusions of adequacy they thought they got away with it.

Psychopaths. Premeditated. Punks.
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Ergon wrote:

I agree. Plus they were so blinded by their youthful delusions of adequacy they thought they got away with it.

Psychopaths. Premeditated. Punks.


True. But what about the supporters?

Do you think that Moore, Sfarzo, Heavey are just foot soldiers? Part of the volunteer army? Or just misguided souls?

How about Hampikian? Halkides? Do you really believe that they believe what they say?

Who is the director of the show? The master puppeteer?
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Nell wrote:
jaybee51 wrote:
Then do you think they kept the second knife too? Could it be one of RS's flick knives?


Yes, I believe they kept the second knife too and I assume it is one of Sollecito's combat knife collection.


Please count me as another believer. The knife-man will not allow a functional knife to be discarded.

I too think that the Italian police has the laissez-faire attitude towards crime in small towns and the knife-man was somewhat convinced the the investigation will be nothing more than cursory. Somehow it did not workout as they expected.

Blame it on the American!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

chami wrote:
Ergon wrote:

I agree. Plus they were so blinded by their youthful delusions of adequacy they thought they got away with it.

Psychopaths. Premeditated. Punks.


True. But what about the supporters?

Do you think that Moore, Sfarzo, Heavey are just foot soldiers? Part of the volunteer army? Or just misguided souls?

How about Hampikian? Halkides? Do you really believe that they believe what they say?

Who is the director of the show? The master puppeteer?


Moore and Sfarzo: trying to kickstart flagging/nonexistent careers, hopping on media wagon to make $$$. Failures.
Heavey: Failed in run for office, sanctioned by Judicial Review committee, failure.
And if the other three are foot soldiers, Bruce Fischer is the bat boy who shines their shoes, and why we've given him so much provenance escapes me. I just found his site such a leak of information :)

Hampikian/Halkides? I don't mind those who believe what they say, I loathe those who believe what is in their best interests to believe. Like their hero Bruce Budowle, mercenaries touting their magical DNA methods self shilling for defense expert cred. I reserve the lower level of hell for the scientific whores who eschew their principles and claim global warming not real, Monsanto's GMO's are not harmful, that Meredith Kercher's DNA on the knife is due to contamination/transfer. (My heroes are Shiv Chopra, Arpad Pusztai, Andrew Wakefield-Not going to argue here, fuck it)

There are two directors: Gogerty Marriott, though the media campaign is running on fumes and adrenaline, and Chris Mellas, who ran the online campaign and now reduced to setting up fake sock accounts and getting his BFF Joe Starr to finally appear on Twitter (and losing there :) Also running on fumes.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

But yeah, Amanda Knox is the star round which all revolve, so she is, ultimately responsible. Not one decent bone in her body.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

Anne Bremner has been replaced :mrgreen:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v ... l.cnn.html
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:


Max you have to issue a a clear warning with stuff like that: CNN's Fredricka Whitfield talks with Steve Moore about discrepancies he found in the Amanda Knox case.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

zorba wrote:
max wrote:

Max you have to issue a a clear warning with stuff like that: CNN's Fredricka Whitfield talks with Steve Moore about discrepancies he found in the Amanda Knox case.

Yah sorry, it is so embarrassing that it made me laugh, but they allow him to talk on CNN so good for him...I guess.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
zorba wrote:
max wrote:

Max you have to issue a a clear warning with stuff like that: CNN's Fredricka Whitfield talks with Steve Moore about discrepancies he found in the Amanda Knox case.

Yah sorry, it is so embarrassing that it made me laugh, but they allow him to talk on CNN so good for him...I guess.


Oh did you mean he got to be on CNN, usually the cop-abusing drink/drunk driving lawyer's slot?

I didn't open the video, I understand Admire saying he/she cannot stomach all of it because neither can I.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

When Knox and Sollecito were in that fancy boutique, in a quite upmarket little street --I mean upmarket in the sense that the type of lingerie in all of the stores in that street (several shops right next door to each other on either side of the street all selling sexy underwear), were not the type from Walmart of any cheap store like that-- and laughing, and Knox told Sollecito (note Knox told Sollecito) we're going to go home and have hot sex, how did that fit in?

How it fits in came into my head, what I have been thinking is she was telling him it, in some kind of compensatory way, because of what he had wanted or what he wanted and she'd promised him, promised him is a possibility, so he was maybe in for some kind of 3-some, and maybe Knox got him into the idea, after all, if a guy, a loner, suddenly has a woman at his beck and call, how is such a male then when suddenly having lots of sex, but the partner, who he knows just a few days gets him into ideas of a 3-some (but he was fast and willing to be into the same, what loyalty did he owe her after less than a week? Nothing that's what, the way he described the jeans Meredith had on too always made me think at some point there had been an eyeing up, by him, of Meredith), is he so loyal to her that he says, no Ifo I love only you,... [yeah, love you when I've only just met you how unreal is all of that]. Yes a person could ordinarily be just into the one person, but if a girl/woman starts on about fantasies, also during bed-talk, well, someone like that could get many a man into many a thing, I'm not sure how easy a male could get a female into such thing, it'd depend on how the female is, like if she really does'nt seen the guy as mariage material, and is open to all kinds of thing which many people are with nothing being wrong with that unless one wants to moralise, etc, since it is each person's right to do what they like if they do no harm to anyone else.

It strikes me that the sexy store visit (which would have been the result of Sollecito's offerings, his idea, like I know a store, it's not too far do you want to go) was part of his things, but something Knox liked, judging by how much fun they had just after Meredith had been discovered with her throat cut, therefore, we are going to go home and have hot sex, it now seems to me to have been compensation, like she in a retarded fashion felt responsible for the bad trip that their plans had become. I think the plans put out there to him by her.

Like, ah you poor thing (not spoken but the type of actions that ensued after the murder) I'll make it up to you we'll have hot sex anyhow.

So all of what happened DID have a highly sexual nature as foundation.

I'm sure of that. Everything they did, even in the police station and at the murder scene is reminiscent of that.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVIII. MAIN DISCUSSION, SEPT 30 -   

max wrote:
zorba wrote:
max wrote:

Max you have to issue a a clear warning with stuff like that: CNN's Fredricka Whitfield talks with Steve Moore about discrepancies he found in the Amanda Knox case.

Yah sorry, it is so embarrassing that it made me laugh, but they allow him to talk on CNN so good for him...I guess.


Steve Moore appeared nervous in this video. What's wrong with his mouth? The corners of his mouth go up and down all the time when he is not speaking. Looks like a nervous tick.

Regarding the suspect of the LAX airport shooting Steve Moore says "But at the same time you cannot just say, ok, he said it. Case closed. We are gone. What you have to do is verify everything he said ... I mean, it could take a year before trial ... to go through everything he said. You cannot just take a confession, those are too easy to get from innocent people." :shock:

I am also disappointed that he did not bring up the screenshot of the Twitter fake account.
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