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XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 - SEPT 29, 13

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I'm having one heck of a good day today. It's afternoon and there have been no crises or emergencies. Supper is planned and in the pot. And I happened to be reading over at .org and found a post by Catnip (thanks much) that I absolutely understood and agreed with to the point that the hair actually stood up on the back of my neck!

Now, mind you, I consider it a good day when I am even able to UNDERSTAND what Catnip wrote. No slur to him, I would need a stepladder to approach his level of intelligence, but this one was so dead on, spot on,to what I have had rolling around in my own brain cells that I had to copy it.


Quote:
Re: XXXII. MAIN DISCUSSION, JUNE 18, 2013 -

Postby Catnip » 11 Sep 2013, 13:03
Linguistic note:

Here, "Sex game gone wrong" seems to be the more natural phrasing, rather than "erotic game".


Example:
-- You pleaded not guilty to the charge of murder. You thereafter ran a scurrilous defence, underpinned by the blatantly preposterous claim that [x] had met her death in the course of a sex game gone wrong.



"Gone wrong" is the more operative part of the phrasing, and is used quite frequently. It collocates often with murder and death (presumably as an attempt to mitigate severity of sentence; as a by-product, pre-emptive 'gone wrong' scenarios are sometimes set up).


Examples:

-- a debt collection gone wrong

-- They also ransacked the house in a way that they hoped would cause people to believe the events were a burglary gone wrong.

-- wanted the murder to look like a cocaine overdose gone wrong



-- the trouble he was in was over a drug deal between two sets of associates that had gone wrong

-- Counsel submitted that the offending was in the context of a burglary ‘gone wrong’ which turned into an armed robbery.


-- the appellant went to [a] house wanting heroin and 'something's gone wrong , terribly, terribly wrong ... and they've ended up dead'.

-- the trial judge’s findings that the beginnings of the incident leading to the death was“a game gone wrong” [with a meat cleaver], ...

-- an attempted drug theft gone wrong, culminating in the death of the deceased following a struggle and the involuntary discharge of the firearm


-- ...given the seriousness of home invasions at night ‘to rectify drug transactions which are thought to have gone wrong...'


-- I am satisfied that he made an elementary and amateurish attempt to create the impression that there had been a robbery which had gone wrong.


Brilliant.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Catnip is as cool as the other side of the pillow ;)
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
Catnip is as cool as the other side of the pillow ;)


You know what I'm saying, dgfred? Sometimes you read a post and it's like Eureka! That's it, exactly.

That's the way this post struck me. It's the 'gone wrong' part that muddles up the phrase even more than it is.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes. I find the same thing with his post. Although I have to admit reading them 2 and 3 times to understand. I have quoted his entire post several times... they are that good.
We also seem to see the dynamic of that night in similar fashions.
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Offline McCall


Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 3:38 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Sollecito doesn't actually no anything about computers. Some universities offer degrees in computer media which is basically playing with various design applications and not a real computer science degree. I would not be surprised if that is what Sollecito's degree turns out to be in.

Now that said being able to establish that you were on a computer at the time of death and so incapable of being the person who murdered Meredith is not difficult to do. You don't need a computer science degree for that. This is especially true given Sollecito claims to have been sending e-mails to his professors. That is an obvious lie because if these e-mails existed it would be so very to establish and his defence team would have. That none of the Groupies even question why a murder suspect is lying is a perfect example of how little critical thought they have given this.

Regarding the cleaning of the hall I am in agreement with Iodine that I don't believe there was a significant cleaning of the hallway. The luminol traces would look different if there was.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I think they were heavily diluted with water/etc... like the bathroom.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Sollecito doesn't actually no anything about computers. Some universities offer degrees in computer media which is basically playing with various design applications and not a real computer science degree. I would not be surprised if that is what Sollecito's degree turns out to be in.

Now that said being able to establish that you were on a computer at the time of death and so incapable of being the person who murdered Meredith is not difficult to do. You don't need a computer science degree for that. This is especially true given Sollecito claims to have been sending e-mails to his professors. That is an obvious lie because if these e-mails existed it would be so very to establish and his defence team would have. That none of the Groupies even question why a murder suspect is lying is a perfect example of how little critical thought they have given this.

Regarding the cleaning of the hall I am in agreement with Iodine that I don't believe there was a significant cleaning of the hallway. The luminol traces would look different if there was.


Exactly. if someone tells a computer story that even I can spot as wonky BS, that someone had better shut up or put up all of the documents and hard evidence. Post haste. The fact that he is not OBSESSED with this part of the evidence speaks volumes to me. Guilty volumes.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I don't know if this has been posted yet:

Foxy Knoxy was not a sex goddess, but 'shy and bumbling' in bed, says her ex-lover
By Hannah Roberts In Rome and Sophie Jane Evans
PUBLISHED: 16:06 GMT, 11 September 2013 | UPDATED: 16:33 GMT, 11 September 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... g-bed.html

"His family has spent more than a million euros on lawyers since the beginning, he estimated."

(So they should have a few millions left, shouldn't they?)
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Offline jhansigirl


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Sollecito doesn't actually no anything about computers. Some universities offer degrees in computer media which is basically playing with various design applications and not a real computer science degree. I would not be surprised if that is what Sollecito's degree turns out to be in.

Now that said being able to establish that you were on a computer at the time of death and so incapable of being the person who murdered Meredith is not difficult to do. You don't need a computer science degree for that. This is especially true given Sollecito claims to have been sending e-mails to his professors. That is an obvious lie because if these e-mails existed it would be so very to establish and his defence team would have. That none of the Groupies even question why a murder suspect is lying is a perfect example of how little critical thought they have given this.


Exactly. He is only a programmer so his technical skills are limited to just his area of expertise.

_________________
The truth is "hate speech" only to those who have something to hide.- Michael Rivero
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Zorba? Are you still around?
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
McCall wrote:
There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Sollecito doesn't actually no anything about computers. Some universities offer degrees in computer media which is basically playing with various design applications and not a real computer science degree. I would not be surprised if that is what Sollecito's degree turns out to be in.

Now that said being able to establish that you were on a computer at the time of death and so incapable of being the person who murdered Meredith is not difficult to do. You don't need a computer science degree for that. This is especially true given Sollecito claims to have been sending e-mails to his professors. That is an obvious lie because if these e-mails existed it would be so very to establish and his defence team would have. That none of the Groupies even question why a murder suspect is lying is a perfect example of how little critical thought they have given this.


Exactly. He is only a programmer so his technical skills are limited to just his area of expertise.


Huh? I know I must be misinterpreting what you are saying, but it appears to me that you are saying that a person's knowledge is limited to that which is gained strictly through formal education. What am I missing here?
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
@zorba, I respectfully disagree. Where do I push my views to the membership here? Yet, as someone who never was anonymous, has been attacked relentlessly? I've never asked for your or anyone's support, and can handle myself very well.
But since you bring this up, do you think their behavior should not be exposed? Posting people's pictures on the internet? (I am not complaining for myself, there are many people who have been harassed)

But let me tell you this. I am done censoring myself because I am an admin of this site. I am a spiritual person, first, and I have spiritual views. As I suppose many others do, and I intend to express, not, my personal spiritual beliefs, but my spiritual take on THIS case. There is much in your philosophy, Horatio, etc :)

And malvern has it right. They aren't attacking me, they are attacking every thing to do with the case, and they are attacking me not for my views, but my work on it.

You have my endorsement Ergon. I trust your actions and I understand them.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jeffski wrote:
Hi guys,

Don't post much these days but I am a constant follower of events on .net .org & TJMK. I would just like to say a big thank you to every one who has contributed over the years to these great forums, with help in translations, with posting links to articles to discussing/debating the many aspects of this sad sad case. Many of you have been vital in rebuffing and stopping the tidal wave of false and misleading information spread by the family/PR and of course the crazed groupies.

Many have like myself came in for some very unsavoury attention,some a lot worse than others from certain immature childish people from the dark side. All I can say is they are becoming more desperate by the day as the 30th approaches ( as Nell's post above shows ). If they really think that by linking such vulgar low readership sites like ground report and IIP are going to have any influence on the appeal, they are truly deluded individuals.

All they have are insults/smears and lies lies and more lies.

We are all here for one thing and one thing alone.

JUSTICE FOR MEREDITH KERCHER.

I am sure this gives the harrassed very much strength. Justice 4 Meredith is our #1 cause.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Thanks for your support, Tamale. It may not seem that way, but I have kept most of my own battles away from this forum. But appropriating my identity, stealing my copyrighted title and material, setting up a fake profile on. Dating site? They are being hit hard, and don't know much yet. But when Bruce Fischer lies to his own members that I-A doesn't support those activities? He lies, and we have the proof of it in a screen grab, the best kind. And make no mistake, they aren't attacking me, they are attacking justice for Meredith.


I know you have been taking it on the chin under the radar. Right on...
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi all...i am watching and agreeing and laughing. Respect to all who participate.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Not having met Knox or Sollecito I can't say anything about them personally, but have met many of that type. Young people on the edge of psychosis, manifested more as a narcissistic personality disorder, but the sheer lack of empathy they display says a lot, in my opinion, about what transpired that night. The Schizophrenic Society of Canada just came out with a paper saying that drug use increases the chance of psychosis in adolescents already predisposed to it Schizophrenia Society Canada but I believe there is a pathway towards psychopathy as well. They certainly fit many of the traits listed in Hare's list of Psychopathic Behaviours.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Iodine wrote:
I'll keep looking for it -- it might be from Fat Tony's personal collection and posted in the Knox thread "back home."

My thinking is that the notions of selective-DNA removal and "they must have cleaned that too" seem like begging the question; I think they didn't leave that many visible footprints in the first place -- wiped blood would have to be less than 1-in-100,000 parts, perhaps even lower than 1-in-1,000,000, not to give any reaction to Luminol, else the whole floor would look like

I find that level of thoroughness incompatible with there being any footprints left at all, as well as leaving Rudy's shoe prints intact, including the one that overlaps the "puddle" trace of Sollecito's feet:

The Luminol traces have indistinct boundaries, but don't appear smeared or streaked from a rubbing motion. I remember it was thought that the techs overapplied the Luminol and that's why the traces are blobby, but what if the traces themselves are blobby and the Luminol representation is an accurate depiction of what's on the floor?

This one (large)[/url] shows more of a watery activity. There's also the dearth of their footprints in Meredith's room to consider (while there was a great deal of blood, it wasn't so abundant that there was nowhere else to step). I think it's more likely that the Luminol prints are of very dilute blood, left by mostly dripping water from washing in the bathroom which evaporated in situ, rather than pure blood that was tracked around and cleaned up in such a thorough-yet-totally-incomplete way that eliminated all evidence of rubbing yet preserved Rudy's ringed shoeprints.

Thanks. I remember the argument, but don't recall any picture. I also think they didn't mop the hallway. I had the unfortunate experience to step in blood once, and it dried very quickly. I didn't leave any prints. I had to scrub my foot like crazy because it is very hard to clean. I think it makes more sense if those prints were left by wet feet.

They did mop the bathroom though. I always wonder what they would have found if they had used luminol in the bathroom. There is half a footprint missing for starters. Same goes for the door. It seems to have been cleaned. Luminol could have made this more clear. I think they should have used Luminol in those areas.
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Offline Underhill


Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:56 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Over at the Wiki, we've put together a concise factsheet about the forthcoming Florence Appeal.

The idea is that this should be a self-contained resource for journalists, or anyone else who just wants to know the basic facts about the appeal, without having to navigate the rest of the wiki.

This is now a freely-available resource. If you are aware of any journalists who are likely to cover the appeal, please forward a link to them. Likewise, if you encounter people on the Internet who are ignorant or misinformed about the appeal, please direct them to the page.

The link is: http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Florence_Appeal_Factsheet

[Also, any corrections/suggestions: please let me know.]

Cheers

Underhill
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thank you Underhill!
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
McCall wrote:
There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Sollecito doesn't actually no anything about computers. Some universities offer degrees in computer media which is basically playing with various design applications and not a real computer science degree. I would not be surprised if that is what Sollecito's degree turns out to be in.

Now that said being able to establish that you were on a computer at the time of death and so incapable of being the person who murdered Meredith is not difficult to do. You don't need a computer science degree for that. This is especially true given Sollecito claims to have been sending e-mails to his professors. That is an obvious lie because if these e-mails existed it would be so very to establish and his defence team would have. That none of the Groupies even question why a murder suspect is lying is a perfect example of how little critical thought they have given this.


Exactly. He is only a programmer so his technical skills are limited to just his area of expertise.


There is no evidence that he knows how to code. The topic came up during his ask the idiot chat session and the way he addressed questions about computer programming strongly implied that he is clueless on the subject.

I would further maintain that it is impossible to graduate from any computer science degree without a basic understanding of how operating systems, networks, and e-mail works.

It is not uncommon for schools to offer worthless but very easy to obtain degrees in sciences. You actually end up with BA rather than a BSc in the subject and these degrees are justified on the grounds that they prepare people for careers as writers in the field but not as scientists. The same is also true for law. There are schools where you can get law degrees that do not actually allow you to work as a lawyer. Everything Sollecito has said and done indicates he has one of these bird degrees.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:04 pm   Post subject: BLOOD OR DILUTE BLOOD?   

Interesting question on this as we discussed the luminol revealed traces and whether there was an extensive cleanup in the hall or not. From Massei we know that the perps may have washed their bloody feet in the bidet and sink of the small bathroom. I think Amanda washed her hands in the sink and blood from her nose (?) dripped in there as well.

But, when Raffaele Sollecito stepped on the bath mat, I believe the imprint there was made from blood, and not dilute.


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
jhansigirl wrote:
McCall wrote:


There is no evidence that he knows how to code. The topic came up during his ask the idiot chat session and the way he addressed questions about computer programming strongly implied that he is clueless on the subject.

I would further maintain that it is impossible to graduate from any computer science degree without a basic understanding of how operating systems, networks, and e-mail works.

It is not uncommon for schools to offer worthless but very easy to obtain degrees in sciences. You actually end up with BA rather than a BSc in the subject and these degrees are justified on the grounds that they prepare people for careers as writers in the field but not as scientists. The same is also true for law. There are schools where you can get law degrees that do not actually allow you to work as a lawyer. Everything Sollecito has said and done indicates he has one of these bird degrees.


I agree about his singular lack of ability. I am not sure it was one of those bird degrees, just that he hasn't completed any course yet. Perugia University seems to be one of the serious universities, unlike The School For Foreigners. He is, from what I can determine, what is called a 'slow learner', for whom all sorts of accommodations are made.

Something I am very interested to know, for him and Amanda Knox: have they ever received treatment previously for depression/ADHD? Such psychiatric medications are often gateways for serious drug abuse and psychopathy developing later in life.

Their every TV appearance and utterance seems to confirm that.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I took the dilution of the mat print to mean that the mat itself was probably wet, which seems likely in view of all the splashing around that was going on:



Edit, pic without the yellow cast.


Last edited by Iodine on Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:48 pm   Post subject: Re: BLOOD OR DILUTE BLOOD?   

Ergon wrote:
Interesting question on this as we discussed the luminol revealed traces and whether there was an extensive cleanup in the hall or not. From Massei we know that the perps may have washed their bloody feet in the bidet and sink of the small bathroom. I think Amanda washed her hands in the sink and blood from her nose (?) dripped in there as well.

But, when Raffaele Sollecito stepped on the bath mat, I believe the imprint there was made from blood, and not dilute.

I've wondered about the print being made in blood too. The tufted or chenille part of the mat print is darker especially in A. If it was a print left from the bidet water wouldn't it be uniform in color? Could it be that the mat was rinsed and hung to dry(the blood clinging to the textured tufts) especially if they used hot water. Has much been made of the two foot print markings labeled A? They seen quite different lighter and even smaller. They either are from a different foot or were placed after the more complete and darker print. The mat moving shuffle could also explain it still being damp from the night before wash.
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Underhill wrote:
Over at the Wiki, we've put together a concise factsheet about the forthcoming Florence Appeal.

The idea is that this should be a self-contained resource for journalists, or anyone else who just wants to know the basic facts about the appeal, without having to navigate the rest of the wiki.

This is now a freely-available resource. If you are aware of any journalists who are likely to cover the appeal, please forward a link to them. Likewise, if you encounter people on the Internet who are ignorant or misinformed about the appeal, please direct them to the page.

The link is: http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Florence_Appeal_Factsheet

[Also, any corrections/suggestions: please let me know.]

Cheers

Underhill


Cheers and thanks
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Sex games. Thinking about it, the term is disturbing in some ways, as the idea of games makes it sound somewhat harmless. However, given more thought, games have rules. Rules require some form of discussion, which lends itself to point to premeditation. How can anyone 'play a game' unless some of the 'players' know what the game is?
I'm still of the belief that the murder was premeditated.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I just saw the defamazation of Ergon on IIP. Good photo Ergon!

The regular rabids are not really around which makes me think they are up to something stupid.

I figure it's pandemonium at camp amanda. They just keep making things worse for themselves.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Problem is that game can mean different things between two or more people.

Say AK plans 'game', but doesn't tell the total details to the other two. Is their view of the 'game' the same as hers? Is the end-game the same for all?

If it was premeditated by AK (with RS?)... was it premeditated with RS knowing or even more so RG?

IMO AK was too much of a simpleton to plan to murder Meredith. It just came to that because of not thinking her/their actions/plan through.

Several posters have got really mad concerning this subject... which I don't want to happen here.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

It could be considered a game if the joke was on the victim. A game if the participants enjoyed toying with and forcing the unwilling victim into sexual degradation. I do see how it could be a sex game gone wrong or fatal in this case.The game part also comes into play with the excitement or pleasure the perps may have felt with the group attack.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
Problem is that game can mean different things between two or more people.

Say AK plans 'game', but doesn't tell the total details to the other two. Is their view of the 'game' the same as hers? Is the end-game the same for all?

If it was premeditated by AK (with RS?)... was it premeditated with RS knowing or even more so RG?

IMO AK was too much of a simpleton to plan to murder Meredith. It just came to that because of not thinking her/their actions/plan through.

Several posters have got really mad concerning this subject... which I don't want to happen here.


No worries, dgfred. To me it is quite obvious that the word 'game' conjures up different images for different people, and that's the reason that there is so much discussion over it.

My thought is that Meredith was sexually assaulted and murdered. That is fact. We know from the evidence who committed the murder and sexual assault. Not one of the defendants has confessed to a story that mitigates the severest charges of murder and sexual assault. Unless and until the three of them confess to what their roles and motives were, I can only look at the end result ( which is murder) and consider that to be the intent, because that is what happened.

Only the defendants themselves can explain any mitigating circumstances.

And, in terms of the word 'games' I am reminded of The Hunger Games. Hardly harmless fun.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
Problem is that game can mean different things between two or more people.

Say AK plans 'game', but doesn't tell the total details to the other two. Is their view of the 'game' the same as hers? Is the end-game the same for all?

If it was premeditated by AK (with RS?)... was it premeditated with RS knowing or even more so RG?

IMO AK was too much of a simpleton to plan to murder Meredith. It just came to that because of not thinking her/their actions/plan through.

Several posters have got really mad concerning this subject... which I don't want to happen here.


Cats often play with their prey, but nobody would want to be the mouse in that game.

For me the term "game" refers clearly to the perspective of the attackers alone. The Supreme Court correctly stresses that this was a "game" where Meredith wasn't a willing participant. It was an attempted rape by a group of three people. The game part was that the attackers took pleasure in humilliating and torturing the victim.

The only ones who repeat the expression "game" in the wrong context over and over again are Amanda Knox supporters because they believe it helps their case.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox's ex caught in another lie
Seattle : WA : USA | Sep 13, 2013 at 2:09 AM PDT
By Chelsea Hoffman
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... nother-lie
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

If his lies were nickels... his 'fund' would be full by now.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

When the recent confusion over calunnia broke out, I contacted Yummi for clarification. Unfortunately, he was away, so it took a while to get an answer, but pertaining to whether it's possible to commit calunnia via a blog, here it is:

Yummi wrote:
Sorry for my late answer.
I actually have nob been reading e-mails for the last three weeks and so didn't answer to anybody!
Now, your first question: No. You cannot commit calunnia by writing something bad about people on blogs. That would be defamation in the worst case. In order to comit calunnia, you need to release a false testimony or place false evidence against someone, meaning you need to offer such evidence/testimony to some authority.



Thank you for the clarification, Yummi.

_________________
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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

(( OT OT ))

An insight not only into Knox and Sollecito, but also into what makes those who troll the Web on their behalf tick:

Study: Everyday sadists take pleasure in others' pain

Sep 12, Psychology & Psychiatry


PHYSORG

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"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
Problem is that game can mean different things between two or more people.

Say AK plans 'game', but doesn't tell the total details to the other two. Is their view of the 'game' the same as hers? Is the end-game the same for all?

If it was premeditated by AK (with RS?)... was it premeditated with RS knowing or even more so RG?

IMO AK was too much of a simpleton to plan to murder Meredith. It just came to that because of not thinking her/their actions/plan through.

Several posters have got really mad concerning this subject... which I don't want to happen here.


Hi, dgfred, that was people on four different continents disagreeing on the meaning of the term, long may lingual diversity flourish :)

Like calunnia, there is no common term for what happened that night. I know 'hazing' and 'rape prank' doesn't even cover it properly, but it's a given that a room full of lawyers would even argue over the definition of 'is' :)

What did Knox intend that night? I believe she fully intended to sexually humiliate Meredith by force. Hence, the transport of the knife to the cottage. Was murder the end plan? No, that would be true psychopathy, like Myra Hindley, Ian Brady, or Paul Bernardo. Narcissistic Personality Disorder, of the sort that so many young female killers display, tends to start from a sense of aggrievance, which escalates into violence and then murder. (See the murder of Reena Virk in Canada) Deep in her mind, she knew this would be the end result. But the drugs removed the brakes that hold most normal people from committing murder, and we know she is not 'normal'.

But such people are manipulators as well, and we know how Knox is a master of that. They tend to get other, weaker individuals to go along with a 'game' while masking their intentions. And Rudy and Rafaelle certainly are weak...
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks for the clarification, Yummi.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

tamale wrote:
.... Good photo Ergon!....


Thanks, tamale. The Lake District, England 2007. I was there with my family on holiday. Wordsworth country (and Beatrix Potter's too :)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:38 pm   Post subject: A TRIBUTE TO ANTONIO CURATOLO   

The day after the Hellmann travesty, the mean spirited uploaded this video to YouTube:

MEREDITH, IL CLOCHARD TESTIMONE D'ACCUSA NON CAMBIA IDEA, or, "Re: Meredith, the 'lame' beggar prosecution witness refuses to recant his testimony"



Quote:
E' stato un controverso testimone dell'accusa nel processo per l'omicidio di Meredith Kercher e ancora a poche ore dalla sentenza di secondo grado, l'ex clochard Antonio Curatolo, ribadisce la propria versione dei fatti e non ritratta sulle accuse a Raffaele Sollecito e Amanda Knox.Curatolo, che ora vive in una casa del Comune di Perugia nel pieno del centro storico, è stato testimone importante in altri due omicidi e questo fatto, secondo i difensori degli imputati, lo rende quantomeno sospetto. Ma lui ribatte che sono cose che succedono quando si vive in strada. Per lui quindi Amanda e Raffaele sono comunque colpevoli.


Tidied up Google translate:
Quote:
He has been a controversial prosecution witness in the trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher and again, a few hours after the second-instance judgment, the former homeless Antonio Curatolo, reiterates his version of the facts and does not retract his allegations against Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox. Curatolo, who now lives in a house in the city of Perugia in the middle of the historic center, was an important witness in two other murders and this, according to counsel for the defendants, at least makes it suspect. But he contends that these things happen when you live on the streets. He (then) stated Amanda and Raffaele are guilty anyway.


When in Perugia I sent an e-mail to the editor of Il Giornale dell' Umbria, asking for information on Curatolo's grave. I wanted to lay some flowers there in respect for Antonio Curatolo. Never heard back, so I went to his park bench, and said a prayer for his soul. In death, he had more dignity than many living. This video is testimony to that, with his straightforward, honest statement.

RIP, Antonio Curatolo. You saw what you saw.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Iodine wrote:
Zorba? Are you still around?



Hello Iodine, no, not really. Am reading the Supreme Court ruling.

I find interesting: things elucidating the lies Knox and Sollecito tell, their families tell, and the actual case; I do not react well to reading all the time about people who, to my mind, are really not worth mentioning (it brings the worst out in me, I do not want to become like Sollecito or his chums), there are so many people online, they should not all be given attention when they are truly only/exclusively destructive, vile, pernicious and cruel, paying attention to them, helps them (by giving them publicity, I for one would never have heard of these people if it weren't for people going to their lousy shit sites and then reproducing what is said and written there here (and on other sites like Perugia.org, though they seem to do less of it, at least now), and in thus doing so, diverting the brain power here away from the relevant matters, like now, the court report, there's so much in there, that is relevant, I'll be back to talk about it, and the points analysed and substantiated as regards why which versions were and ARE valid and others absolutely not.

In the words of the guy with no place, Fez, in that 70s Show,. I say good day, good day, I say good daaaay I said.

Note: It is beginning to sound more and more, to me, and others from what I'm reading, like Sollecito killed Meredith.
I can picture more than one person doing that stabbing, the stabbing that took place, I can picture Sollecito in his hero screw loose way showing Knox just WHAT AN OBEDIENT DOG HE WAS, I get that coming into my head, him in a flash going a step further than Knox, to please her. I can really imagine him being like that.

I will teach myself to scroll past reproductions of other sites including Twitter reels.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yesterday, I tried, unsuccessfully, to find more information on the upcoming appeal trial and court schedule on the Il Palazzo di Giustizia di Firenze website, and today it's published in La Nazione (Firenze). :) Here's what happens next:

<<<BREAKING NEWS>>>

Meredith's murder: here is how the court of Florence is preparing for the trial of the year

At 9AM on 30 September, in Room 32, a 'maxi' (large)-courtroom, which will be prepared to accommodate 200 to 300 people, including journalists and the public, will begin the new trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher, in which Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito will be judged for the fourth time.

The Assize Court of Appeal of Florence has already set an indicative timetable. The final hearing is scheduled for November 26: it is deduced that the intention is to arrive at a judgment by December.

The trial will work for real from the start: September 30 judges decide on the request of the defense, already deposited with the court, to re-hear some of the witnesses and experts and to order new scientific investigations.

Even the Supreme Court, in their motivations, suggests new analysis, particularly on the third trace of DNA found on the knife seized in Sollecito's house - that the prosecution believed to be the murder weapon - and not examined by experts. If the Court welcomes this 'demand for new investigations', the task could be entrusted in the second hearing, on October 4.

Then about twenty days to know the results, which will be presented in the courtroom on 23 and 24 October. The other dates are scheduled as 6, 7, 25 and 26 November.

It is unlikely that the two defendants will attend the trial; in fact Amanda has already stated that she will not return to Italy, and Sollecito, interviewed in the United States, explained that he will not be in Florence, at least for the first hearings. In the appeal papers that the lawyers of Amanda and Raffaele have lodged, there are no requests to be heard in court..

Despite this, judges and court managers know that the media attention will be monstrous. For TV, for example, they are considering authorizing an installation of a single fixed camera, which will then distribute images to various media groups. In addition, journalists will also benefit from a press room .

And they will also have to deal with some 'backlash' of the inconvenience caused by the blocking of roads for the World cycling championship, held in Florence on September 29.

The presiding judge, the second section of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence, is Alessandro Nencini, 58 years old. Among his rulings, the one with which, in March 2009, he sentenced 27 people for the environmental damage caused by the construction work on the high speed highway in Mugello.


LA NAZIONE (FIRENZE)

So, please mark your calendars: September 30, October 4, October 23/24, November 6, 7, 25, 26.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

- 300 person capacity! I wonder if it will go unused since the Woman of the Hour won't be there.

- Nencini. Nencini. Have to learn the new name.

It sounds like the test is expected and they've already incorporated it into the schedule. Twenty days is much more realistic-sounding than the four or five months C+V took, thank god.
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Offline ollie


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Iodine wrote:
I took the dilution of the mat print to mean that the mat itself was probably wet, which seems likely in view of all the splashing around that was going on:



Edit, pic without the yellow cast.

Hi I have been reading up on this sad case here and at.org and TJMK. Have to ask is this photograph the bathroom that Meredith shared with Knox? Also is this the real sight that AK says that she noticed blood but "they were just speckles". If this is the real scene then the mind boogles at her barefaced lies.

Oh I would also like to Thank all those who worked on the translations from the Supreme Court of Cassation of Italy. Have been reading here for a good while and certainly feel that every
one has justice for Meredith and her family at heart.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I was just going to ask if Meredith's family plans to attend the new appeals trial, and I got an answer quickly (again.) :)

Trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, relatives of Meredith will be in the courtroom. Defense asks for new surveys (perizie)

IL SITO DI FIRENZE

Will post an English translation soon.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Guermantes wrote:
So, please mark your calendars: September 30, October 4, October 23/24, November 6, 7, 25, 26.


Thanks, Guermantes. To be honest, I think that timetable is slightly optimistic. I think what we'll see, is a process longer then that, but shorter then Hellmann's. The Italian system is not known for its speed and delay serves the interests of the defence, so I'm expecting to see them try and haggle as many adjournments as possible.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ollie wrote:
Hi I have been reading up on this sad case here and at.org and TJMK. Have to ask is this photograph the bathroom that Meredith shared with Knox? Also is this the real sight that AK says that she noticed blood but "they were just speckles". If this is the real scene then the mind boogles at her barefaced lies.

Oh I would also like to Thank all those who worked on the translations from the Supreme Court of Cassation of Italy. Have been reading here for a good while and certainly feel that every
one has justice for Meredith and her family at heart.


Hi Ollie and welcome to PMF!!!

Yes, that is the little bathroom in the cottage. However, that is not the original sight that would have greeted Knox. What you see in that picture is the bathroom treated with the presumptive blood test phenolphthalein. It turns pink in the presence of blood inside a specific time window. However, after a longer amount of time, it will all still turn pink as it reacts to the atmosphere. It is an old form of presumptive blood testing that is now replaced with more modern methods such as luminol, but is still used in some circumstances, such as where it is suspected there may be DNA and some labs are still suspicious of whether luminol may damage DNA traces (especially when it's Low Copy Number amounts).

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Defense asks for new surveys


Dun dun duuuuuuun..... I suppose they'll want to choose not influence in any way the analysts, too.


Olli, yes, Michael's explanation is right -- that's a photo of the bathroom taken after the Kaste-Meyer test reagent was applied. I presented it because it shows a lot of water was being used for washing.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, relatives of Meredith will be in the courtroom. Defense asks for new surveys (perizie)
13/09/2013

They will most likely be present at the first hearing of the trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, a sister and a brother of Meredith Kercher, the British student murdered in her apartment in Perugia on November 1 of 2007. To announce the presence of Stephanie Kercher and one of her brothers was Francesco Maresca, the Florentine lawyer, who, together with colleague Serena Perna, has been representing the family of Meredith Kercher from the first moments of the story. Instead, none of the two defendants, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, will be present.

The hearings have been scheduled until the end of November, for the new trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, that starts on the 30th of September before the Assize Court of Appeal of Florence. In particular, the Court, presided by Judge Alessandro Nencini, has tentatively identified the dates of 4, 23 and 24 October, 6, 7, 25 and 26 November for trial hearing. All dates, depending on the road (direction) the new trial will take, with the reopening of the process or not, may be amended in the light of any deadlines for the filing of possible valuations.

The defenses of the two defendants filed memorials where they reiterated many of the demands already previously presented in the two degrees of trial hearings in Perugia. Among other things, the lawyers ask to re-analyze the computers of the defendants, to order an expert to perform an audio-phonometric test to examine whether a witness could really have heard footsteps on the evening of the murder of British student. The trial, in which the prosecution will be supported by the Assistant Attorney General Alessandro Crini, will take place in a big courtroom in Florence, which will be specially set up to accommodate 200-300 people, both the public and journalists, who can also enjoy a press room. TV camera set-up for courtroom shoot: it is planned that video footage will be made ​​by a fixed camera and then images distributed to various media organizations

http://www.ilsitodifirenze.it/content/568-processo-ad-amanda-knox-e-raffaele-sollecito-ci-saranno-i-parenti-di-meredith-difesa-chi
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Iodine wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Defense asks for new surveys


Dun dun duuuuuuun..... I suppose they'll want to choose not influence in any way the analysts, too.


Olli, yes, Michael's explanation is right -- that's a photo of the bathroom taken after the Kaste-Meyer test reagent was applied. I presented it because it shows a lot of water was being used for washing.


Doesn't that test pick up proteins too?

I used to argue everywhere that nobody that saw that picture would think it was blood... maybe Olli didn't have a good view.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I think the request to retest the hard drive is a gimme that won't go far. The audiophonomeric testing? Sure, by all means, but the court will consider that Curatolo saw them that night, and that should weigh in favour of the prosecution. Retesting the Knife? Now that's interesting. Will it reveal additional traces of Meredith?
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
I was just going to ask if Meredith's family plans to attend the new appeal trial, and I got an answer quickly (again.) :)

Trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, relatives of Meredith will be in the courtroom. Defense asks for new surveys (perizie)

IL SITO DI FIRENZE

Will post an English translation soon.


As always, sending warm thoughts to all of them at this time.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, relatives of Meredith will be in the courtroom. Defense asks for new surveys (perizie)
13/09/2013

They will most likely be present at the first hearing of the trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, a sister and a brother of Meredith Kercher, the British student murdered in her apartment in Perugia on November 1 of 2007. To announce the presence of Stephanie Kercher and one of the brothers was Francesco Maresca, the Florentine lawyer, who, together with colleague Serena Perna, has been representing the family of Meredith Kercher from the first moments of the story. Instead, none of the two defendants, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, will be present.

The hearings have been scheduled until the end of November, for the new trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, that starts on the 30th of September before the Assize Court of Appeal of Florence. In particular, the Court, presided by Judge Alessandro Nencini, has tentatively identified the dates of 4, 23 and 24 October, 6, 7, 25 and 26 November for trial hearing. All dates, depending on the road (direction) the new trial will take, with the reopening of the process or not, may be amended in the light of any deadlines for the filing of possible valuations.

The defenses of the two defendants filed memorials where they reiterated many of the demands already previously presented in the two degrees of trial hearings in Perugia. Among other things , the lawyers ask to re-analyze the computers of the defendants, to order an expert to perform an audio phonometric test to examine whether a witness may have heard footsteps on the evening of the murder of British student. The trial, in which the prosecution will be supported by the Assistant Attorney General Alessandro Crini, will take place in a big courtroom in Florence, which will be specially set up to accommodate 200-300 people, both the public and journalists, who can also enjoy a press room. TV camera set-up for courtroom shoot: it is planned that video footage will be made ​​by a fixed camera and then distributed to media organizations to take pictures/images.

http://www.ilsitodifirenze.it/content/568-processo-ad-amanda-knox-e-raffaele-sollecito-ci-saranno-i-parenti-di-meredith-difesa-chi


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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi this was the sound video I mentioned in June but never posted. I walked along the upper parking lot near Nara's window, The new family can be heard talking at normal voice level on the cottage porch A car can be heard passing on the lower. road and a dog is barking in the valley well below the cottage. These sounds could not be heard in Piazza Grimana.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:48 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thank you very much for the audio, malvern. Were the new tenants sitting on the front porch or on the side balcony at the back of the cottage while you were recording? Just curious. Thanks.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

You are welcome The family were sitting near the front door but not speaking loudly. I have no doubt a scream at the back of the house would have been heard . Maybe the prosecution should conduct their own test if the defense is planning a footstep test.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

If the test is permitted it wouldn't be a "defence" test, but a test carried out by the court and so it would be conducted by court appointed independent experts. All parties will then be permitted to provide their own experts, if they choose, to observe the tests being made and if relevant, the data being examined. That will also be the case for any other tests or re-tests that the court might request.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thats good Michael I pictured another demo like the impossible wall climb.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

La Nazione wrote:
And they will also have to deal with some 'backlash' of the inconvenience caused by the blocking of roads for the World cycling championship, held in Florence on September 29.


Actually, World cycling championship 2013 will take place in Florence from September 22-29. It culminates with the men's elite road race on Sunday, the 29th. So that shouldn't be a problem for the Appeals Court in terms of road closures, but I suspect there will be heavy crowds of departing spectators on Monday morning.

http://en.comune.fi.it/World_cycling_championship_2013.html

Roll on September 30!! I can hardly wait for this trial to begin. If anyone wants to go to Florence, there is the B&B Hotel Nuovo Palazzo di Giustizia not far from the Palace of Justice, but it has received mixed reviews from travelers on TripAvdisor, so better to avoid it.

B&B Hotel Nuovo Palazzo di Giustizia Firenze

I've found a nice hotel to stay at in Florence, but ... no, I'm not going. :(

HOTEL PENDINI

Does anybody know if Yummi is going to attend some of the hearings?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
Hi this was the sound video I mentioned in June but never posted. I walked along the upper parking lot near Nara's window, The new family can be heard talking at normal voice level on the cottage porch A car can be heard passing on the lower. road and a dog is barking in the valley well below the cottage. These sounds could not be heard in Piazza Grimana.


Thanks for the audio, malvern! I stood in the parking lot under Nara Capezalli's window and was surprised to hear all the sounds from the cottage carry up to there, I believe due to natural amphitheater formation of the valley. The same dog (probably) was barking that night too, and the stairs were indeed noisy. Even my normal footsteps up the ramp opposite the cottage to the parking level (see photos in Perugia 2013 thread) sounded quite loud.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:25 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Personally, I don't see the need for any sound test. There may have been an argument for some sort of test to confirm things were there only one witness, but there are three witnesses, two of which heard a scream and two of which heard people running. Moreover, how reliable could any such test be? For example, to make it worth anything, they would have to replicate all the different variables from that night...including such things as atmospherics (such as humidity, sound will travel differently in damp or humid air v dry air, as it will also travel differently in colder v warm air, so temperature is also important, as would wind direction and speed also make a difference, just for some examples). I don't see how they could recreate all that and it would only create more things to argue over then questions it would resolve. In other words, it would simply muddy the waters as far as I can see.

That in mind, I can see absolutely why the defence would be arguing for such a test. The delay to the process it would cause would also be a bonus, for them.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

(( OT OT ))

Okay, that does it...now I'm REALLY ticked off. The Syrian Electronic Army have gone too far!!! I do have interests other then this case, a life. One of the the things I like is a bit of the football and I have a few haunts to do with that. One of the favourite places I like to go in that pursuit I toddle along to this evening and what am I confronted with? This!!! http://www.chelseainamerica.com/showthr ... ead/page51

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Great News Digest, a round-up of all of today's news by Catnip:

Post by Catnip » 14 Sep 2013, 03:00

Florence News Digest, 13 September 2013

Very likely going to be present at the first hearing will be Meredith's sister, Stephanie, and one of her brothers (1). The news was announced by Francesco Maresca, the Florentine lawyer who, together with Serena Perna, is representing the Kercher family. (2)

Neither of the two accused, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, will be attending. (3)
At this stage, they have not made any formal submissions to be heard. (4)

Hearing calendar:

The appeal hearings calendar has been provisionally scheduled: (5)

4, 23 and 24 October (6)

6, 7, 25 and 26 November (7)

in case oral argument on the evidence is to be re-opened, or if further tests are to be ordered (8). The venue is Room 32, capable of holding 200-300 people, members of the public and journalists alike (9).

The Court's decision is expected before the end of December (10), based on the last scheduled hearing date being 26 November (11).

Fracesco Maresca:

"If the Florence Court of Appeal will interpret the guidelines given by the Supreme Court of Cassation, as it seems to me that they ought to be interpreted, then there will be, at least, an examination of trace "I"" (12). "We will not lodge appeal papers: our appeal paper is the Court of Cassation judgment." (13)


Trace "I":

The famous Exhibit ‘I’, isolated on the knife, which during the Perugia appeal proceedings had been analysed by the court-appointed experts (14) or, rather, not analysed by them (15) is being called ‘the third trace’ (16).


Florence Court of Appeal:

President of the Court will be Alessandro Nencini (17), 58 years old (18).

Assisting Judge will be Luciana Cicerchia, President of the Court of Assizes (19).

The prosecution will headed by Procurator-General Alessandro Crini (20).

Defence submissions:

The defences will ask for a new analysis of the accuseds' computers (21) and an audio-phonometric test to verify whether a witness could really have heard footsteps on the evening of the murder (22)


Preparations:

Technicians are at work preparing the courtroom, taking measurements, testing the acoustics and audio footprints, moving tables and chairs. (23)


Expectations:

The first day of hearings will be to decide the order of business (24). The Court will decide on the defence request, already lodged with the appeal papers, to re-hear various witnesses and experts and to order new scientific tests (25).

If the Court grants the request, the task could be assigned on the second hearing day, 4 October, then, with 20 days or so to obtain the results, they can be presented in court on 23 and 24 October. (26)

In the appeal papers that Amanda and Raffaele's defence teams have lodged, there are no requests to be heard in court. (27)

Notwithstanding this, the judges and courthouse managment know that media attention will be monstrous. For TV, for example, they are considering authorising the installation of only one fixed TV camera, which can feed out images to the various groups. And there will be something that will have to be done about the 'whiptail' of displeasure due to road blockages because of world cycling, on 29 September. (28)

Backgrounds:

Nencini: Among his judgments is one of March 2009, where he convicted 27 people for environmental damage in the Mugello due to the High Speed works. (29) Referring specifically to that decision, Silvio Berlusconi spoke of the magistracy as a ''metastasis'' that ''applied the law like a Moloch''. Nencini filed suit, seeking symbolic damages from him. (30)

Cicerchia: at Arezzo she convicted militant member of the new Red Brigades, Nadia Desdemona Lioce, and was the GUP in the proceedings for the death of Gabriele Sandri. (31)


Crini: carried out investigations on the murders by the 'monster' of Florence and on the Mafia massacres of 1993-1994 (32)

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=142283#p142283
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Bob Graham's article in The Mirror:

Amanda Knox: Raffaele Sollicito claims police wanted him to FRAME her over Meredith Kercher’s murder
14 Sep 2013 00:00

Sollecito then went to stay with ­relatives in the US – and even got marriage proposals from female murder trial “groupies”.

He said with a smile: “There were a number of young women, two or three, who wanted to meet me and marry me.

“I met just one, the one I was interested in. She is beautiful, but it didn’t work.”

Sollecito has now moved to a secret location in the Caribbean, where he is currently trying to establish a business.

Knox’s lawyers have insisted she will not be at the retrial in Florence and ­Sollecito said he will wait until after the first of eight ­scheduled ­hearings to see “which way the court is going”.

He added: “I am not saying I won’t go back, or won’t be there, I just want to see how it goes then go and discuss it with my lawyers.

“I don’t want people’s curiosity or ­attention in Italy because they are crazy, crazy and addicted to this kind of ­sensationalism.

"They talk about it all the time and there will be risks for me.”


THE MIRROR
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

So basically what Raffaele Sollecito is saying is that if he has the feeling the appeal is going in his favour, he might consider showing up, otherwise he is going to skip the whole thing and stay in hiding out of fear he might be arrested.

I believe the chances of the guilty verdict being confirmed on appeal are very high, so I guess Sollecito will be on the run for a short time - until his arrest.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
So basically what Raffaele Sollecito is saying is that if he has the feeling the appeal is going in his favour, he might consider showing up, otherwise he is going to skip the whole thing and stay in hiding out of fear he might be arrested.

I believe the chances of the guilty verdict being confirmed on appeal are very high, so I guess Sollecito will be on the run for a short time - until his arrest.



It sounds like they are both getting ready to be fugitives.

Knox is hoping a strong PR blitz and people support ( frenzied FOA smear/slander campaign ) will keep her from extradition. It won't.

Sollecito is basically on the run now. If the Mirror article is correct, He is only going to return to Florence only if the case is going well!!

And still some people are supporting & donating cash to these two obviously guilty murderers.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Well, nobody really believed Sollecito was actually going to attend the Appeal, did they?

All of this time, the FOAKers who were whining about Knox and Sollecito being locked in precautionary custody and how the Italians were ridiculous for believing them to be flight risks... The Italians have been totally vindicated and the FOAKers exposed as the naive blowhards they really are.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

There's more ...

From Raffaele Sollecito's Facebook page (my thanks to Jeff for he screenshot!):


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

His "public statement" to rectify his interview reminds me a bit of Amanda Knox's confused "gifts" to police as if these two are not aware of the importance and magnitude of their actions.

I suggest that next time he writes to a newspaper to make himself understood, one of his native English speaking groupies should proofread his letter.

None of them seems to care about making a good impression.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

It's all well and good repeatedly stating clearly, that all of those in the courts, the police, prosecutors and judges, etc, are crazy, and this crazy twice in one sentence was only one of the hundreds of times he tried to have everyone believe that the reason he is being tried is simply that everyone is crazy, etc, everyone except for his dear and gentle flower bringing self but no amount of retractions, like running out of the church before the chorus, can make good what he had done wrong. No way was he ever making mistakes because of language and his inability in that regard, it was clear what he was saying and what he meant, now he is faced with the nearing repeat appeal, the rerunning of the null and void last appeal, so that it might be accepted, he is scared of what reality means, after all, he has shown a total disregard for the law and all of those in government, all of those in authority, like he alone is above all of those individuals that make the whole, so now scared of the consequences, says; Oh, I'm so sorry, please look, I did not mean that, I am just not good in English, so where you read: They are crazy, they are crazy because, etc.,

please read it as: I mean my opinion is different to theirs, no disrespect, just the system is crazy.

I still see him coming out with a total turnaround, and, it may well be him who shoved that fatal knife, but then if he has to (start singing another tune), and does it as the first of the two, he is bound to say: No, it was like this, she did this and she did that and I, well, I did not know, I was scared, so I tried to help as I believed her, she told me Guede did this and Guede did that so I believed her, but I did not realise the consequences of what I did, I was not even there, I came along later, and through pressure from her, I tried to help her as I imagined it was some kind of accident she got involved in and that it was in fact all Guede's fault but she lied to me.

The above may be a far grab but his clear signs of desperation in his situation, which for the time being -makes his situation appear to be different to that of Knox, he is not going to keep up the I'm a hero guy forever, hero as in not saying a word about her. So he may rattle on her, while, even when, supposedly coming clean, he in fact was the knife shover all along, not that this in any way could exonerate Ms Knox one way or the other, because who exactly lashed out with the final blow with that knife makes no difference to the courts, they are fully aware that both were fully involved and to change this, someone has to show that this is not the way it was, only, they have already shown they cannot do that, and have apparently engaged numerous shady people to try to steal justice away by circumventing the logical rules of law, and to force their will without acknowledging law at all, illegally thus.

But whatever he comes out with while admitting a role, it is going to go above what Knox could then in turn (taking second placed) come out with, short of revealing the whole truth, but what use would that be to her if she wishes to escape the consequences? None. So she would potentially be left unable to defend herself against claims made by Sollecito.

Still, I hardly see him getting a reduced sentence, as the Supreme Court ruling shows, they do not miss a single twist or turn and every piece is well-reasoned and answered for, exactly as it had already been, by Dott Massei. Nothing short of the actual truth will be acceptable to the courts. The truth is the only thing that could make sense. The truth as Knox and Sollecito would have it is a Swiss cheese full of holes.

Even if they do not believe all of what he says, his revealing something is in no way going to help Knox.

So what's this about having a new spot in the Caribbean where he is hoping to start a business? I guess it was a sources say thing. He is trying to piggy back on Knox while she enjoys temporary non-immediacy, where as an American there is talk about whether America would extradite her and he being part of the same, thinks this might lend him leniency, in that America therefore could not reasonably extradite him, only I fear the actual system will leave no nice little aunty dear presents for him like that, Aunty Madge or Uncle Sam will deliver him, even if they do not deliver Knox. As soon as he is on Italian soil, caught, imprisoned, he is going to start singing, but it will not be old Beatle's songs.

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Last edited by zorba on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

What a bizarre interview from Sollecito. Trying to set up a business in the caribbean? This after his failed attempt to do the same in Switzerland and his trotting off to the USA. He appears to be a man more concerned with finding a safe haven (and failing) than starting a business and moving on (if only those crazy legal troubles would just go away)

Did he really say that Knox was out of control at the police station? Oh, he SO wants to point the finger but darest not.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
--- snip ---

Still, I hardly see him getting a reduced sentence, as the Supreme Court ruling shows, they do not miss a single twist or turn and every piece is well-reasoned and answered for, exactly as it had already been, by Dott Massei. Nothing short of the actual truth will be acceptable to the courts. The truth is the only thing that could make sense. The truth as Knox and Sollecito would have it is a Swiss cheese full of holes.

--- snap ---


I agree with you. I believe Raffaele Sollecito will keep up the charade until he's been convicted. Only then he will start complaining and put the blame squarely on Knox.

That's how it went last time. I cannot remember which one of the prison snitches was the one saying Sollecito allegedly told him in prison it was Knox who stabbed Meredith.

The knife wounds inflicted before the fatal stab wound suggest Raffaele Sollecito is the one who started it. Maybe he wanted to live out one of these perverted fantasies he collects in form of comic books.

Interestingly, Rudy Guede blamed Sollecito for the knifing more than Knox and described him as Meredith's attacker.

Ultimately it won't make much of a difference because all three of them participated and all three are guilty of attempted rape and murder.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

SqueakEMouse wrote:
What a bizarre interview from Sollecito. Trying to set up a business in the caribbean? This after his failed attempt to do the same in Switzerland and his trotting off to the USA. He appears to be a man more concerned with finding a safe haven (and failing) than starting a business and moving on (if only those crazy legal troubles would just go away)

Did he really say that Knox was out of control at the police station? Oh, he SO wants to point the finger but darest not.



Hi SqueakEMouse, good to see you again!!! :)

Well, here's the thing. The problem for Amanda has always been quite for aside from the truth, which she will never tell, there is only one story she can tell and she has to stick with that. That is, that she wasn't at the cottage and was with Raffaele at his place. She can't place herself, in any remotely convincing manner, at the cottage whilst putting all the blame for the deed on Raffaele. Whereas, in Raffaele's case, he has always faced a dilemma. Aside from the truth, he has always had two stories he could tell to try and save his skin. The first is the one he's told so far, which in essence (though not in detail) is the same story as Amanda's...that he was at his apartment all evening. The problem is, that one has failed him badly so far. The other story he could tell, but hasn't tried as of yet, is the one where he throws Knox under the bus by claiming that he only tagged along with her and took part in the crime in only a very limited and reluctant capacity, or even wasn't involved at all but was dragged into it by Knox after the deed and only helped in the partial clean-up and staging, an accessory after the fact. From the beginning, this dilemma has torn at him (and his defence team). But though, that dilemma must be eating him up since 1) Story A has clearly failed and will fail him again, taking into account the High Court Report that will guide his Appeal and 2) Knox is going to be a no-show and so is leaving him to face the music and go to jail alone.

So yeah, he has one really heavy dilemma on his hands.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

SqueakEMouse wrote:
What a bizarre interview from Sollecito. Trying to set up a business in the caribbean? This after his failed attempt to do the same in Switzerland and his trotting off to the USA. He appears to be a man more concerned with finding a safe haven (and failing) than starting a business and moving on (if only those crazy legal troubles would just go away)

Did he really say that Knox was out of control at the police station? Oh, he SO wants to point the finger but darest not.


Hi SqueakEMouse,

Good to see you.

The money to fund Raffaele Sollecito's new business certainly comes from his daddy. So papa Sollecito states publicly he is now broke, but he has enough money to spare to keep funding his son's next silly business venture.

Raffaele Sollecito is used to have others taking care of his troubles. It will be hard for his father to explain to him for the very first time, his son being now close to 30, that he will have to face the music.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
--- snip ---

Still, I hardly see him getting a reduced sentence, as the Supreme Court ruling shows, they do not miss a single twist or turn and every piece is well-reasoned and answered for, exactly as it had already been, by Dott Massei. Nothing short of the actual truth will be acceptable to the courts. The truth is the only thing that could make sense. The truth as Knox and Sollecito would have it is a Swiss cheese full of holes.

--- snap ---


I agree with you. I believe Raffaele Sollecito will keep up the charade until he's been convicted. Only then he will start complaining and put the blame squarely on Knox.

That's how it went last time. I cannot remember which one of the prison snitches was the one saying Sollecito allegedly told him in prison it was Knox who stabbed Meredith.

The knife wounds inflicted before the fatal stab wound suggest Raffaele Sollecito is the one who started it. Maybe he wanted to live out one of these perverted fantasies he collects in form of comic books.

Interestingly, Rudy Guede blamed Sollecito for the knifing more than Knox and described him as Meredith's attacker.


Ultimately it won't make much of a difference because all three of them participated and all three are guilty of attempted rape and murder.



No...I think this is how it went down. I think Knox was the director. She stood on the sidelines directing and encouraging the other two. She is one of those who prefers to use others then do the deed herself and I think she got off on the power of it...not only power over Meredith, but also over Guede and Sollecito. However, things didn't go to plan and started to go wrong in a bad way. First of all, once things got to a certain level, Guede balked and bugged out, fleeing to the larger bathroom. This left only Sollecito trying to restrain Meredith, which of course he couldn't alone, and this forced Amanda into having to step in physically in Guede's place. It was then, whilst Guede was gone and couldn't interfere (and Knox considered that he had participated enough to be considered a part of it and so would remain silent afterward), she decided to end it. But, even though now directly participating, she was still directing. So, she told Sollecito to finish the victim with his knife. This he did, but he fucked up. After a massive effort to muster the courage to do it, Sollecito stabbed, but his knife wasn't long enough and he did it in the wrong the place, making it non-lethal, or at least not lethal quick enough. Knox then told him to do it again, to finish her off, but he'd used up all his courage on the first strike and couldn't do it, despite Knox's pressure. This forced Knox to stop being the director and become the direct murderer, having to end it herself. This is why Knox resents Sollecito so much. Not just because he dropped her alibi and got her into trouble in the first place, but because she sees it as his fault that she had to use the kitchen knife on the victim and so has that damned knife against her as evidence, the one piece of evidence that directly ties her to the actual act of murder and leaving her only one option for a story in her defence with no way to claim okay, she was there, but only as an unwilling voyeur.

If this wasn't the way it went down, why then the need for Knox to stab the victim at all...why didn't Sollecito do the all the stabbing and why didn't he finish her off? No, it all indicates that at the end Knox took charge and did so because she had to, because Sollecito couldn't do what was 'expected' of him and it was expected because she was the author, director and in charge all along, except her minions couldn't complete the task.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
The money to fund Raffaele Sollecito's new business certainly comes from his daddy. So papa Sollecito states publicly he is now broke, but he has enough money to spare to keep funding his son's next silly business venture.


Or maybe, that money was meant to be put aside, under the guise of starting a business, to really serve as "going-on-the-run money", or to serve as a nest egg in a place safe from the ILE for when he finally gets out, should he be caught and jailed. In other words, a sort of insurance money for the worst case scenarios.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

For all those interested, here is the link to a blog where articles about the Meredith Kercher murder case are published. Other cases are discussed as well. You will find it refreshing that justice for Meredith is the focus. No Knox PR spin.

The blog can be found here: Bondbabes 007 On Assignment, Blogging For Trialwatchers

Latest articles about the case include:

Amanda Knox Testifies, "Being Heard" in the Courtroom
Amanda Knox: Italian Supreme Court Nullifies Acquittal
"A Beauty that Shone Out" ... Meredith Kercher
Will Donald Trump Rescue Raffaele Sollecito
Meredith Kercher ... In Memoriam
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
The money to fund Raffaele Sollecito's new business certainly comes from his daddy. So papa Sollecito states publicly he is now broke, but he has enough money to spare to keep funding his son's next silly business venture.


Or maybe, that money was meant to be put aside, under the guise of starting a business, to really serve as "going-on-the-run money", or to serve as a nest egg in a place safe from the ILE for when he finally gets out, should he be caught and jailed. In other words, a sort of insurance money for the worst case scenarios.


Oh, I am sure that's the only purpose of it.

It would be interesting to know how much longer Raffaele Sollecito would have depended on his father financially hadn't he been linked to the murder and subsequently incarcerated. I don't think much would have changed.

Most people at his age work for a living. Even students work to finance their living expenses, which he did not. Raffaele Sollecito does not seem to have any ambition to stand on his own feet. The only effort I've ever heard from to get a job was an arranged job interview by Chris Mellas. After looking at Sollecito's blog and curriculum, it appears he does not have much to offer and the reason he is not being considered for any jobs he might have applied for is probably not even related to his notoriety, but rather his lack of skills and commitment.

He is a good-for-nothing kinda guy.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
His "public statement" to rectify his interview reminds me a bit of Amanda Knox's confused "gifts" to police as if these two are not aware of the importance and magnitude of their actions.

I suggest that next time he writes to a newspaper to make himself understood, one of his native English speaking groupies should proofread his letter.

None of them seems to care about making a good impression.

'Damage control' by stating his English was misunderstood is not going to work I am afraid. RAI News picked it up and so have other media.
http://www.rainews24.rai.it/it/news.php?newsid=181458
http://www.parmaonline.info/notizie/201 ... izia_41187

You are on trial for murder and the trial is starting in a few weeks. What do you do? Accuse the police of trying to make illegal deals and framing you...again... Gosh, I don't remember how many times I called RS stupid.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

max wrote:
Nell wrote:
His "public statement" to rectify his interview reminds me a bit of Amanda Knox's confused "gifts" to police as if these two are not aware of the importance and magnitude of their actions.

I suggest that next time he writes to a newspaper to make himself understood, one of his native English speaking groupies should proofread his letter.

None of them seems to care about making a good impression.

'Damage control' by stating his English was misunderstood is not going to work I am afraid. RAI News picked it up and so have other media.
http://www.rainews24.rai.it/it/news.php?newsid=181458
http://www.parmaonline.info/notizie/201 ... izia_41187

You are on trial for murder and the trial is starting in a few weeks. What do you do? Accuse the police of trying to make illegal deals and framing you...again... Gosh, I don't remember how many times I called RS stupid.


Yes and one of the many reasons why he is such a stupid person is this about the agents coming to his cell, when anyone who knows anything would know that once a person is in a prison the police have no right of entry there and they certainly would NEVER be allowed into the cells, if there were to be any meeting they would have to apply through the prison for it, it is absolutely untrue that any cop, no matter what rank, could just show up at a prison and go in, they will get as far as anyone else. Prisoners have to be handed over and signed in, they don't just get put in a van to go to the courts, or anywhere else, they have to be signed into the custody of those taking responsibility for them, but if the prison takes them to court then the prison guards have authority and police are in no way allowed to interfere with that, they cannot even get to speak to persons waiting in the courthouse to go into court, the prison officers have the authority and the responsibility. Sollecito is so stupid he has not done his homework on this and has not thought things through, so he is saying things that are so easy to disprove, he is telling complete lies.

When the police bring persons to a prison, they sign the persons over to the prison, from that moment on, the police have no authority. Any official meetings are exactly that, and are done in special quarters, which is in no way within the prison cell confines, this is for many reasons, if everyone could come and go all kinds of things might happen, and prisons run a very careful and strict regime to ensure that nobody can escape or have things passed to them or get abused, as the prison has the responsibility. If they allowed police into cells, which are in fact private, then if anything happened to the prisoner, and even if nothing had happened but prisoners said it did, there would be no end to it, no end to accusations, and this is why the courts are going to look very gravely at Sollecito, as they know all of this stuff, the prisons do not let people in, exactly for this reason, the reason being that anyone could then say hey the police came to see me and beat me up, etc. And the police could say, hey, we went to see him and he attacked me.

So no way Jose, nobody proposed anything to Sollecito except, tell the truth son, you know it's right.

If police could just show up at prison and say let me in, take me to his cell, then this would mean, potentially, any amount of those in jail could be intimidated, brutalised, so there is no room for this to happen as the prisoners are under protection of the government, which is not the same as the police.

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Last edited by zorba on Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Excellent point Zorba, the new police story is like his comic strip tale of them threatening to leave him in a pool of blood. Of course they wouldn't have access to him in prison.There should be no doubt that RS is a liar and continues to lie. Supporters like to pretend his confusion surrounding his alibi was do to pot and police bullying, six years later he's still at it.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
Excellent point Zorba, the new police story is like his comic strip tale of them threatening to leave him in a pool of blood. Of course they wouldn't have access to him in prison.There should be no doubt that RS is a liar and continues to lie. Supporters like to pretend his confusion surrounding his alibi was do to pot and police bullying, six years later he's still at it.



Thank you, yes, comic strip tales, that's a good-un!!!

I mean what does anyone imagine the police thought when the poor prison guard, also falsely accused by Knox, showed up trying to keep his clean name, would they have said, well, we obviously believe the American? No, think not, look at her record up until now, there is NOBODY she has NOT accused of something or other: listen Mr 45 years in the prison service officer guy, you just go home because you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Then, Knox's confidante, her former cell mate, what the hell was she in for, murdering babies or murdering a husband, all I know IS, whatever it was, it wasn't kosher, so what do we get, woman also tells horrid story to support ex cellmate, are these people then credible?

No, because if such things had gone on, then they could always have contacted their lawyers, yet at no time DID they do that, they got released then made up more stuff and the reason it never has been, and never will go to court, is because it would just be a waste of police time as these fallacies are totally bullshit and the fact they never made formal complaints is what says it is bullshit, same as Knox with her mighty accusations, never once having said, hey Mr Lawyer guy, listen, this and that is going on and.. Mr Lawyer: I see, we shall lodge a complaint, leave it to me.

What happened in reality?
Mr Lawyer guy tried to shut Knox up, and said the opposite of what she had been saying. Did she ever shut up though, even after that?
No, she went on, after wonderful advice from her amateur lawyer guys, her parents, etc. If she ever did get anything, then they did not, I fear none of them got anything or they would not have let her keep on making things worse for herself.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

‘I’m seen as the dark lady who decided Meredith had to die’: Amanda Knox reveals why she refuses to return to Italy and face a retrial for murder of British student

* Cleared Knox claims her every movement 'distracted from the evidence'
* She rejected calls for her to fly to Florence on 30 September for retrial
* Follows claims from former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito that officers warned him to 'distance himself' from Knox - or face life in prison
* He said police manipulated his family who begged him to comply with them
* Italian says he's terrified of retribution and is starting new life in Caribbean

By Daily Mail Reporter and Mia De Graaf

PUBLISHED: 09:05, 15 September 2013 | UPDATED: 13:41, 15 September 2013



THE DAILY MAIL

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
No...I think this is how it went down. I think Knox was the director. She stood on the sidelines directing and encouraging the other two. She is one of those who prefers to use others then do the deed herself and I think she got off on the power of it...not only power over Meredith, but also over Guede and Sollecito. However, things didn't go to plan and started to go wrong in a bad way. First of all, once things got to a certain level, Guede balked and bugged out, fleeing to the larger bathroom. This left only Sollecito trying to restrain Meredith, which of course he couldn't alone, and this forced Amanda into having to step in physically in Guede's place. It was then, whilst Guede was gone and couldn't interfere (and Knox considered that he had participated enough to be considered a part of it and so would remain silent afterward), she decided to end it. But, even though now directly participating, she was still directing. So, she told Sollecito to finish the victim with his knife. This he did, but he fucked up. After a massive effort to muster the courage to do it, Sollecito stabbed, but his knife wasn't long enough and he did it in the wrong the place, making it non-lethal, or at least not lethal quick enough. Knox then told him to do it again, to finish her off, but he'd used up all his courage on the first strike and couldn't do it, despite Knox's pressure. This forced Knox to stop being the director and become the direct murderer, having to end it herself. This is why Knox resents Sollecito so much. Not just because he dropped her alibi and got her into trouble in the first place, but because she sees it as his fault that she had to use the kitchen knife on the victim and so has that damned knife against her as evidence, the one piece of evidence that directly ties her to the actual act of murder and leaving her only one option for a story in her defence with no way to claim okay, she was there, but only as an unwilling voyeur.

If this wasn't the way it went down, why then the need for Knox to stab the victim at all...why didn't Sollecito do the all the stabbing and why didn't he finish her off? No, it all indicates that at the end Knox took charge and did so because she had to, because Sollecito couldn't do what was 'expected' of him and it was expected because she was the author, director and in charge all along, except her minions couldn't complete the task.



Michael, I have come to this exact conclusion. I am always impressed with your clarity in words Michael. Over nearly six years, we have peeled and peeled away the onion and this in my opinion is the core truth. Amanda is a psychologically sick human being and has absolutely no conscience. ZERO. She lucked out big time so far due to some investigative missteps.

Amanda's lies will not fool Lady Justice.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Bob Graham has been busy this past week, interviewing the two accused. He has spoken with Knox as well as Sollecito. The goal is to depict them as two 'innocent kids' caught up in a nightmare (?) Is Knox's PR campaign looking to revamp her image as a studious, fragile 'girl next door' and a 'good daughter': what is that photo of her walking with both her parents supposed to signify? As if they had always had harmonious and close-knit relations, a true family of sorts, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Knox's interview with Bob Graham in today's New York Post, with new photos of Knox:

Amanda Knox: Trial hell left me broke and broken
By Bob Graham
September 15, 2013

Last week, British reporter Bob Graham sat down with Knox, now 26, in her hometown of Seattle. In her first interview since the latest court decision, Knox explained why she will not be returning to Italy.


NEW YORK POST
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
‘I’m seen as the dark lady who decided Meredith had to die’: Amanda Knox reveals why she refuses to return to Italy and face a retrial for murder of British student

* Cleared Knox claims her every movement 'distracted from the evidence'
* She rejected calls for her to fly to Florence on 30 September for retrial
* Follows claims from former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito that officers warned him to 'distance himself' from Knox - or face life in prison
* He said police manipulated his family who begged him to comply with them
* Italian says he's terrified of retribution and is starting new life in Caribbean

By Daily Mail Reporter and Mia De Graaf

PUBLISHED: 09:05, 15 September 2013 | UPDATED: 13:41, 15 September 2013



THE DAILY MAIL


It became necessary to pull on my hip-waders to plod through some of this article. Aghh. Everyone was more interested in what she wore.......her presence was a distraction. Me, me, me, me, me.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hey Michael, Knox responds to your theory of this crime:

‘I’m seen as the dark lady who decided Meredith had to die’: Amanda Knox reveals why she refuses to return to Italy and face a retrial for murder of British student
By Daily Mail Reporter and Mia de Graaf

Knox told the paper she had been portrayed during the first trial as 'the dark lady...who decided Meredith was better than me and had to die'.

'Projecting that image justifies in their minds that I would be capable of committing a crime so heinous as this and therefore validates the guilty verdict in the first trial,' she said.

But, she added, finance was also a problem: 'If it were possible to go to the court and not have to deal with the issues of being afraid of being thrown back in prison again for an arbitrary reason, or for being able to financially afford it, absolutely I would want to be there.'


THE DAILY MAIL

ETA: Just saw that you'd already posted the link to a DM story upthread.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The New York Post sums it up best in a tweet:

New York Post ‏@nypost 3h

Quote:
Amanda Knox has blown through her $3.8M book deal money while struggling with PTSD http://nyp.st/169uikl


From Knox's interview:

Four months ago, Knox’s autobiography, “Waiting to be Heard,” was published — and immediately attracted criticism that she was “cashing in” on her experiences. She discloses the reality of the contract:

"It was a $3.8 million deal. Of the $3.8 million received, I carefully dispersed it where it was due: to taxes, to my lawyers, to my family so they no longer had mortgages at stake. Part of it went in fees to my agent, part of it in fees to my collaborator. At this moment, I am negotiating the last of it with my lawyers in Italy for the latest legal fees.
... If not for the book deal, I could have been facing a lifetime of financial burden of having to pay for a defense that could still stretch for years more."


THE NEW YORK POST
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The Noelbot seems upset.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Where does this diagnosis come from? And why is this young woman NOT in some form of intensive therapy?

Regardless of any opinion on guilt or innocence, if this is a description of her emotional and mental state at this point in her life, SOMEONE should direct her to the nearest capable therapist. It boggles my mind.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Whaaaat? What's she saying between the lines here? A strange way - for an "innocent" person - to put it:

Amanda Knox wrote:
It made me feel helpless, to feel nobody actually cared about the people in this case. Nobody seemed to care whether or not Meredith had been murdered by me or by Raffaele or by Rudy Guede.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
zorba wrote:
--- snip ---

Still, I hardly see him getting a reduced sentence, as the Supreme Court ruling shows, they do not miss a single twist or turn and every piece is well-reasoned and answered for, exactly as it had already been, by Dott Massei. Nothing short of the actual truth will be acceptable to the courts. The truth is the only thing that could make sense. The truth as Knox and Sollecito would have it is a Swiss cheese full of holes.

--- snap ---


I agree with you. I believe Raffaele Sollecito will keep up the charade until he's been convicted. Only then he will start complaining and put the blame squarely on Knox.

That's how it went last time. I cannot remember which one of the prison snitches was the one saying Sollecito allegedly told him in prison it was Knox who stabbed Meredith.

The knife wounds inflicted before the fatal stab wound suggest Raffaele Sollecito is the one who started it. Maybe he wanted to live out one of these perverted fantasies he collects in form of comic books.

Interestingly, Rudy Guede blamed Sollecito for the knifing more than Knox and described him as Meredith's attacker.


Ultimately it won't make much of a difference because all three of them participated and all three are guilty of attempted rape and murder.



No...I think this is how it went down. I think Knox was the director. She stood on the sidelines directing and encouraging the other two. She is one of those who prefers to use others then do the deed herself and I think she got off on the power of it...not only power over Meredith, but also over Guede and Sollecito. However, things didn't go to plan and started to go wrong in a bad way. First of all, once things got to a certain level, Guede balked and bugged out, fleeing to the larger bathroom. This left only Sollecito trying to restrain Meredith, which of course he couldn't alone, and this forced Amanda into having to step in physically in Guede's place. It was then, whilst Guede was gone and couldn't interfere (and Knox considered that he had participated enough to be considered a part of it and so would remain silent afterward), she decided to end it. But, even though now directly participating, she was still directing. So, she told Sollecito to finish the victim with his knife. This he did, but he fucked up. After a massive effort to muster the courage to do it, Sollecito stabbed, but his knife wasn't long enough and he did it in the wrong the place, making it non-lethal, or at least not lethal quick enough. Knox then told him to do it again, to finish her off, but he'd used up all his courage on the first strike and couldn't do it, despite Knox's pressure. This forced Knox to stop being the director and become the direct murderer, having to end it herself. This is why Knox resents Sollecito so much. Not just because he dropped her alibi and got her into trouble in the first place, but because she sees it as his fault that she had to use the kitchen knife on the victim and so has that damned knife against her as evidence, the one piece of evidence that directly ties her to the actual act of murder and leaving her only one option for a story in her defence with no way to claim okay, she was there, but only as an unwilling voyeur.

If this wasn't the way it went down, why then the need for Knox to stab the victim at all...why didn't Sollecito do the all the stabbing and why didn't he finish her off? No, it all indicates that at the end Knox took charge and did so because she had to, because Sollecito couldn't do what was 'expected' of him and it was expected because she was the author, director and in charge all along, except her minions couldn't complete the task.


You may well be correct, that she stood and directed, I'm not sure though, it is hard to be sure, another way I sense it, is that it was Knox who went berserk, and she is the one with reason to do so, in line with her problems, her instability, her lack of self-esteem, her actual state which I see as being NOT self-assured, I see everything she does as a way to hide that and or to overcome her timidity, having no stability (being loud to overcome it), led her, I think into being unable to deal with things in an acceptable way, in an ordinary way, unable to take criticism, taking it as an all-out assault on her as a person, instead of being able to say, well, on that point he/she is definitely wrong but maybe that other thing is right a bit, maybe I could look at it, and if that is how others perceive me, I might be able to change it then, as obviously the person who said that thing is not against me, is not trying to be horrible, etc. Knox should have been able to work that out since we know that Meredith was a very kind person, therefore the equation says no way would she have been nasty towards Knox, but it must have been Knox's inability and unwillingness to see anything other than what she thought, that made it impossible for Meredith to even help her. Therefore the distancing, and then the result being that this freaked Knox out as she was totally unable to take rejection and automatically tried to force it so those who were rejecting her would accept her and like her and want to have fun with her.

But someone who is unstable and never learned these things and has a disposition of instability and insecurity that make her feel not part of the whole, can then react in ways that one would not expect born of instability.

So I see her reactions to Meredith, as a release of so many things, onto Meredith, therefore, I see Knox as easily as I see Sollecito having made the fatal wound, and after all, yes her DNA on that knife, and the way Stefanoni said it showed something usual in her field where the pressure from pushing, leaves marks like that at the hilt, only I see her not so much as clinically planning and dictating it even if she did direct others, I do not see her actually stood there at the sidelines directing it, I think she is the one with the raging temper.

I've noticed the same even in court where she used it (that insane temper) hidden away behind crocodile tears about her sorry situation, theyyyyy called me a liaaaaaaaar: I did not feel sorry upon hearing that, not for her, I thought it sounded just as I imagined she'd be with people alone where she went nuts on them, to me in court, that was part of that going nuts, I could imagine her going off on someone, uncontrollably so, her voice, all it reminded me off or made me think of, was her going completely and uncontrollably emotional on someone, I could imagine her going off at Meredith in exactly that manic voice.

That is why I cannot imagine her standing to the side and watching. I see them both there tormenting Meredith. And, once the stabbing started there was no going back so the moment of realisation that dawned on at least one of them that there could be no going back as Meredith was never going to keep quiet about it, may have taken place right there in the actual process of abuse that had escalated, the intent being bad to start with but the intent not having been to murder Meredith, to be her boss yes, and that's why, maybe the knives, to scare her to bits, but through the argument, I see Knox having gone nuts.

Also think she had every opportunity to play Guede along making him think Meredith liked him, I doubt that Guede cared who he got to have sex with and I think Knox used that. In being that way, Guede in no way would be unique as a male.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:45 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Where does this diagnosis come from? And why is this young woman NOT in some form of intensive therapy?

Regardless of any opinion on guilt or innocence, if this is a description of her emotional and mental state at this point in her life, SOMEONE should direct her to the nearest capable therapist. It boggles my mind.



Someone needs to tell Knox that "guilt" is not PTSD!!!

The old medical card. It's not like they've not played it before to try and gain public sympathy. I remember when Edda Mellas was claiming Knox's eyes were failing and all her hair was falling out due to the terrible ordeal of prison. The Sollecitos meanwhile, claimed Sollecito was going insane, was hardly lucid, wasn't eating and was suffering from stomach problems....ill and vulnerable, that's us!!!

It's all been a part of their ploy to try and slither into the place of the real victim, Meredith Kercher. Everything they say to the media and I mean everything, is all a part of their PR exercise, no more or less and should be seen as exactly that.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Hey Michael, Knox responds to your theory of this crime:

‘I’m seen as the dark lady who decided Meredith had to die’: Amanda Knox reveals why she refuses to return to Italy and face a retrial for murder of British student
By Daily Mail Reporter and Mia de Graaf

Knox told the paper she had been portrayed during the first trial as 'the dark lady...who decided Meredith was better than me and had to die'.

'Projecting that image justifies in their minds that I would be capable of committing a crime so heinous as this and therefore validates the guilty verdict in the first trial,' she said.

But, she added, finance was also a problem: 'If it were possible to go to the court and not have to deal with the issues of being afraid of being thrown back in prison again for an arbitrary reason, or for being able to financially afford it, absolutely I would want to be there.'


THE DAILY MAIL

ETA: Just saw that you'd already posted the link to a DM story upthread.



and:

Napia5 wrote:
It became necessary to pull on my hip-waders to plod through some of this article. Aghh. Everyone was more interested in what she wore.......her presence was a distraction. Me, me, me, me, me.



Knox is continuing to do just what the FOAKers have always done, which is to combine the newspapers and courtroom together, as though they were one and the same entity. The result is a whole heap of straw men.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox wrote:
I am now in many kinds of prisons. One prison is the continuation of this case.

I don’t feel free. To this day, I’m in this sort of cage of judgment...


Good. That's how it should be.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Amanda Knox wrote:
I am now in many kinds of prisons. One prison is the continuation of this case.

I don’t feel free. To this day, I’m in this sort of cage of judgment...


Good. That's how it should be.



Yes, especially as she should never have been let out of real prison to begin with.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Where does this diagnosis come from? And why is this young woman NOT in some form of intensive therapy?

Regardless of any opinion on guilt or innocence, if this is a description of her emotional and mental state at this point in her life, SOMEONE should direct her to the nearest capable therapist. It boggles my mind.



Someone needs to tell Knox that "guilt" is not PTSD!!!

The old medical card. It's not like they've not played it before to try and gain public sympathy. I remember when Edda Mellas was claiming Knox's eyes were failing and all her hair was falling out due to the terrible ordeal of prison. The Sollecitos meanwhile, claimed Sollecito was going insane, was hardly lucid, wasn't eating and was suffering from stomach problems....ill and vulnerable, that's us!!!

It's all been a part of their ploy to try and slither into the place of the real victim, Meredith Kercher. Everything they say to the media and I mean everything, is all a part of their PR exercise, no more or less and should be seen as exactly that.


Michael, it's the 'illogicality' of this entire approach that I find so stunning. No wonder people who know nothing much about the case remain skeptical.
Here's a young woman in such emotional distress that she causes such a ruckus in her hotel room security is called. She then announces that she is suffering from PTSD, giving a list of her overwhelming level of stress, and then, instead of using all of this insight in an attempt to seek help for herself, she gives interviews, explaining her issues?

How can any rational person look at this and not wonder, "What the hell are you thinking?" She can 'trust' Diane Sawyer enough to go on national television to tell her story. She can give an interview that has global reach and 'trust' that she will not be mis-represented. But, she can't or won't seek some form of counseling to help herself?

It's not the 'haters' and guilters who are painting a flawed and suspicious picture of her. She's the one holding the paintbrush.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The only time bullshit ever makes sense, is when one recognises it as just that.

All the evidence is against her and it's overwhelming. They can't buy the court anymore as they don't have enough cash. All they have left is the long-shot of public sympathy, so they are set to fish for it with whatever means possible. The problem is, bullshit always backfires sooner or later, but bullshit is all they've got!!!

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox will not return to Italy for retrial for fears her presence would cause a 'distraction'

After having her conviction for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher thrown out, the Italian courts have announced a retrial of Ms Knox and her former Italian boyfriend

Oscar Quine



THE INDEPENDENT

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Before, it was because she "didn't understand", now she has a better truth that she can remember, and it's because she'd be "a distraction".

Is it possible that Knox could ever tell a story about ANYTHING whatsoever, without then constantly changing it down the road, as though nobody in the world has any kind of memory?!!!

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"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Knox is now repeating the same pack of lies spread around by her supporters that Rudy Guede might have been a "police informer" and might have 'collaborated' with the police to get a reduced sentence:

Amanda Knox wrote:
It’s conspicuous that despite his history of being armed and breaking into people’s houses, he was still able to walk the street without a care. How is that possible? The police knew about these incidents, yet never prosecuted him...
I think that there might be a connection between him and the police or the investigators in Perugia..


If my memory serves me correctly, it was Mark Waterbury who cooked up this fantastic conspiracy theory and had been dishing it out to online world. It's very stupid of Knox to repeat these unfounded allegations in a newspaper interview. A new lawsuit for libel beckons?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Pictures of the courtroom where the appeals trial will be held:

LA NAZIONE (FIRENZE)

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Offline Sparkles


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Michael wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Where does this diagnosis come from? And why is this young woman NOT in some form of intensive therapy?

Regardless of any opinion on guilt or innocence, if this is a description of her emotional and mental state at this point in her life, SOMEONE should direct her to the nearest capable therapist. It boggles my mind.



Someone needs to tell Knox that "guilt" is not PTSD!!!

The old medical card. It's not like they've not played it before to try and gain public sympathy. I remember when Edda Mellas was claiming Knox's eyes were failing and all her hair was falling out due to the terrible ordeal of prison. The Sollecitos meanwhile, claimed Sollecito was going insane, was hardly lucid, wasn't eating and was suffering from stomach problems....ill and vulnerable, that's us!!!

It's all been a part of their ploy to try and slither into the place of the real victim, Meredith Kercher. Everything they say to the media and I mean everything, is all a part of their PR exercise, no more or less and should be seen as exactly that.


Michael, it's the 'illogicality' of this entire approach that I find so stunning. No wonder people who know nothing much about the case remain skeptical.
Here's a young woman in such emotional distress that she causes such a ruckus in her hotel room security is called. She then announces that she is suffering from PTSD, giving a list of her overwhelming level of stress, and then, instead of using all of this insight in an attempt to seek help for herself, she gives interviews, explaining her issues?

How can any rational person look at this and not wonder, "What the hell are you thinking?" She can 'trust' Diane Sawyer enough to go on national television to tell her story. She can give an interview that has global reach and 'trust' that she will not be mis-represented. But, she can't or won't seek some form of counseling to help herself?

It's not the 'haters' and guilters who are painting a flawed and suspicious picture of her. She's the one holding the paintbrush.


Hmmm. Surely to have a diagnosis of PTSD one must had a diagnosis via a psychologist and I am assuming counselling /therapy to deal with the condition.

if my memory serves me correctly she admitted during her book tour interviews of an aborted session with a counsellor trained in injustice (really) and another one mentioned in the most recent article.

she has not mentioned a formal diagnosis for this or any other condition as far as I know. Hmmmm self diagnosis or self promotion and bs? Thoughts?
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Offline Underhill


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
The New York Post sums it up best in a tweet:

New York Post ‏@nypost 3h

Quote:
Amanda Knox has blown through her $3.8M book deal money while struggling with PTSD http://nyp.st/169uikl


From Knox's interview:

Four months ago, Knox’s autobiography, “Waiting to be Heard,” was published — and immediately attracted criticism that she was “cashing in” on her experiences. She discloses the reality of the contract:

"It was a $3.8 million deal. Of the $3.8 million received, I carefully dispersed it where it was due: to taxes, to my lawyers, to my family so they no longer had mortgages at stake. Part of it went in fees to my agent, part of it in fees to my collaborator. At this moment, I am negotiating the last of it with my lawyers in Italy for the latest legal fees.
... If not for the book deal, I could have been facing a lifetime of financial burden of having to pay for a defense that could still stretch for years more."


THE NEW YORK POST


When I read about how her money has drained away to lawyers, agents,collaborators and other hangers-on, I could almost feel sorry for her...but, wait a minute, what about the money she owes to Patrick Lumumba? She doesn't mention paying anything to him and, in fact, he doesn't even show up on her radar. If she had the tiniest shred of human decency, the very first priority from her book deal would have been to pay the money she owes to Patrick. It would make a very small dent in her $3.8 million, but could make a big difference to him. And we're supposed to feel sympathetic towards her?
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Meh, she's FOS. She manages to live alone downtown working what, six hours per week? Doesn't sound broke to me.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Sparkles wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Michael wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Where does this diagnosis come from? And why is this young woman NOT in some form of intensive therapy?

Regardless of any opinion on guilt or innocence, if this is a description of her emotional and mental state at this point in her life, SOMEONE should direct her to the nearest capable therapist. It boggles my mind.



Someone needs to tell Knox that "guilt" is not PTSD!!!

The old medical card. It's not like they've not played it before to try and gain public sympathy. I remember when Edda Mellas was claiming Knox's eyes were failing and all her hair was falling out due to the terrible ordeal of prison. The Sollecitos meanwhile, claimed Sollecito was going insane, was hardly lucid, wasn't eating and was suffering from stomach problems....ill and vulnerable, that's us!!!

It's all been a part of their ploy to try and slither into the place of the real victim, Meredith Kercher. Everything they say to the media and I mean everything, is all a part of their PR exercise, no more or less and should be seen as exactly that.


Michael, it's the 'illogicality' of this entire approach that I find so stunning. No wonder people who know nothing much about the case remain skeptical.
Here's a young woman in such emotional distress that she causes such a ruckus in her hotel room security is called. She then announces that she is suffering from PTSD, giving a list of her overwhelming level of stress, and then, instead of using all of this insight in an attempt to seek help for herself, she gives interviews, explaining her issues?

How can any rational person look at this and not wonder, "What the hell are you thinking?" She can 'trust' Diane Sawyer enough to go on national television to tell her story. She can give an interview that has global reach and 'trust' that she will not be mis-represented. But, she can't or won't seek some form of counseling to help herself?

It's not the 'haters' and guilters who are painting a flawed and suspicious picture of her. She's the one holding the paintbrush.


Hmmm. Surely to have a diagnosis of PTSD one must had a diagnosis via a psychologist and I am assuming counselling /therapy to deal with the condition.

if my memory serves me correctly she admitted during her book tour interviews of an aborted session with a counsellor trained in injustice (really) and another one mentioned in the most recent article.

she has not mentioned a formal diagnosis for this or any other condition as far as I know. Hmmmm self diagnosis or self promotion and bs? Thoughts?


Sparkles, that's the 'illogicality' I see. In one interview, she stresses the PTSD, which I am sure can BE a horrible condition if one suffers from it, and then discusses that there has been only one aborted visit and an additional counseling session attended. OK, then why bring it up?
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Where does this diagnosis come from? And why is this young woman NOT in some form of intensive therapy?

Regardless of any opinion on guilt or innocence, if this is a description of her emotional and mental state at this point in her life, SOMEONE should direct her to the nearest capable therapist. It boggles my mind.



Someone needs to tell Knox that "guilt" is not PTSD!!!

The old medical card. It's not like they've not played it before to try and gain public sympathy. I remember when Edda Mellas was claiming Knox's eyes were failing and all her hair was falling out due to the terrible ordeal of prison. The Sollecitos meanwhile, claimed Sollecito was going insane, was hardly lucid, wasn't eating and was suffering from stomach problems....ill and vulnerable, that's us!!!

It's all been a part of their ploy to try and slither into the place of the real victim, Meredith Kercher. Everything they say to the media and I mean everything, is all a part of their PR exercise, no more or less and should be seen as exactly that.


Guilt is not PTSD...like it.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

One of he ongoing problems from misinterpretations is like this thing above in the Independent where they write such things as Thrown Out, but that is an idea out of tune with the actual concepts that are real, to say thrown out that way connects to the idea of let's say, British law, were to get an appeal it is very, very difficult indeed, it is the same way in America, so using these slogan-like, sensational sounding bits is entirely inappropriate as there was never a sensational, final, done-with-it-all deal/case/circumstance, it was always going to be a question of appeals, since that is part of the usual Italian sytem, using ideas about other concepts of law used in other countries has nothing to do with the reality of the case being carried out in Italy, nowhere else, in Italy.
So to say Thrown Out is just a misrepresentation of the way things really were and are.

It's no big deal, it never was thrown out.
It never was a new trial.

Knox and Sollecito know full well what the real circumstances are and the facts, but the ignorance that exists outside Italy is gladly misused by both. Knox religiously carried her personal copy of the Italian Penal Code in and out of the courthouse, she fully grasps the system of appeals, yet pretends she does not, by playing the game of I do not understand, it was thrown out, and now we have to go through all of this. Yet she knew that her release was not going to be the end of it, she also knew if she had not been released, that it would likewise not have been the end of it, since SHE would have appealed, Sollecito would have appealed, they are so full of shit.

What Michael noted, the fact they never should have been released, I agree with and always thought so too, that it was terrible how they'd gotten let out, the way I see that, is: it is a flaw in the system. How can this be allowed to happen, look what we have now with Knox getting on the first plane out.

She now pretends that it is all about money, or she'd love to be there in court, crap, no she would not, and, I still do not believe that her family even needed to mortgage the dog's kennel.

It was all paid for by the media. She still has got money. Her lawyers did not cost millions, and the money from the interviews, etc., took care of all of that, this is why in making up even more bullshit she forgot to include Patrick in her sad tale of woe, simply because the rest of what she said is also untrue, she hasn't paid shit.

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

bricks-) bricks-) bricks-)
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
One of he ongoing problems from misinterpretations is like this thing above in the Independent where they write such things as Thrown Out, but that is an idea out of tune with the actual concepts that are real, to say thrown out that way connects to the idea of let's say, British law, were to get an appeal it is very, very difficult indeed, it is the same way in America, so using these slogan-like, sensational sounding bits is entirely inappropriate as there was never a sensational, final, done-with-it-all deal/case/circumstance, it was always going to be a question of appeals, since that is part of the usual Italian sytem, using ideas about other concepts of law used in other countries has nothing to do with the reality of the case being carried out in Italy, nowhere else, in Italy.
So to say Thrown Out is just a misrepresentation of the way things really were and are.

It's no big deal, it never was thrown out.
It never was a new trial.

Knox and Sollecito know full well what the real circumstances are and the facts, but the ignorance that exists outside Italy is gladly misused by both. Knox religiously carried her personal copy of the Italian Penal Code in and out of the courthouse, she fully grasps the system of appeals, yet pretends she does not, by playing the game of I do not understand, it was thrown out, and now we have to go through all of this. Yet she knew that her release was not going to be the end of it, she also knew if she had not been released, that it would likewise not have been the end of it, since SHE would have appealed, Sollecito would have appealed, they are so full of shit.

What Michael noted, the fact they never should have been released, I agree with and always thought so too, that it was terrible how they'd gotten let out, the way I see that, is: it is a flaw in the system. How can this be allowed to happen, look what we have now with Knox getting on the first plane out.

She now pretends that it is all about money, or she'd love to be there in court, crap, no she would not, and, I still do not believe that her family even needed to mortgage the dog's kennel.

It was all paid for by the media. She still has got money. Her lawyers did not cost millions, and the money from the interviews, etc., took care of all of that, this is why in making up even more bullshit she forgot to include Patrick in her sad tale of woe, simply because the rest of what she said is also untrue, she hasn't paid shit.



That's the question of the day, Zorba. Why DELIBERATELY misrepresent the workings of the Italian Legal System? Wouldn't she still be faced with the same nightmare if she accurately explained how things work? More dramatic this way, I suspect.
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Offline Sparkles


Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:54 pm

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Sparkles wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Michael wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Where does this diagnosis come from? And why is this young woman NOT in some form of intensive therapy?

Regardless of any opinion on guilt or innocence, if this is a description of her emotional and mental state at this point in her life, SOMEONE should direct her to the nearest capable therapist. It boggles my mind.



Someone needs to tell Knox that "guilt" is not PTSD!!!

The old medical card. It's not like they've not played it before to try and gain public sympathy. I remember when Edda Mellas was claiming Knox's eyes were failing and all her hair was falling out due to the terrible ordeal of prison. The Sollecitos meanwhile, claimed Sollecito was going insane, was hardly lucid, wasn't eating and was suffering from stomach problems....ill and vulnerable, that's us!!!

It's all been a part of their ploy to try and slither into the place of the real victim, Meredith Kercher. Everything they say to the media and I mean everything, is all a part of their PR exercise, no more or less and should be seen as exactly that.


Michael, it's the 'illogicality' of this entire approach that I find so stunning. No wonder people who know nothing much about the case remain skeptical.
Here's a young woman in such emotional distress that she causes such a ruckus in her hotel room security is called. She then announces that she is suffering from PTSD, giving a list of her overwhelming level of stress, and then, instead of using all of this insight in an attempt to seek help for herself, she gives interviews, explaining her issues?

How can any rational person look at this and not wonder, "What the hell are you thinking?" She can 'trust' Diane Sawyer enough to go on national television to tell her story. She can give an interview that has global reach and 'trust' that she will not be mis-represented. But, she can't or won't seek some form of counseling to help herself?

It's not the 'haters' and guilters who are painting a flawed and suspicious picture of her. She's the one holding the paintbrush.


Hmmm. Surely to have a diagnosis of PTSD one must had a diagnosis via a psychologist and I am assuming counselling /therapy to deal with the condition.

if my memory serves me correctly she admitted during her book tour interviews of an aborted session with a counsellor trained in injustice (really) and another one mentioned in the most recent article.

she has not mentioned a formal diagnosis for this or any other condition as far as I know. Hmmmm self diagnosis or self promotion and bs? Thoughts?


Sparkles, that's the 'illogicality' I see. In one interview, she stresses the PTSD, which I am sure can BE a horrible condition if one suffers from it, and then discusses that there has been only one aborted visit and an additional counseling session attended. OK, then why bring it up?


I agree. But this seems to be trend. Claiming PTSD is purely about the give me sympathy me me me attitude whave have come to expect of Knox. Its meant to how she is suffering that SHE is the victim.

jodi arias tried this in her murder trial where it was supposed to support her claim of self defence which clearly showed her arrogance considering she effectively killed her victim 3 times. Her defence brought in a psychologist who diagnosed her with PTSD based on the ninjas did it alibi which was a LIE. He did not redo the test despite this. One of the finer prosecutorial moments in court was exposing this. This invalidated the test as her responses during the diagnosis were made up to fit the lie.

bottom line for me is that PTSD was based on an violent act that Arias committed. No remorse just manpulation and this is the mantra for the desparate whose options are running out.

now do we believe Knox? huh-)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Meredith Kercher lawyer hits out at no-show Amanda Knox

METRO

Jools has also translated this piece from La Nazione:

Post by Jools » 15 Sep 2013, 12:40

The family of Meredith Kercher almost certainly will be attending the new appeal trial for the murder of the British student that will begin on September 30 in Florence against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. Their lawyer Francesco Maresca reported to ANSA: “They will be there [to show] respect for the Court.”

It is probable the Kercher family will be represented by Meredith’s sister Stephanie, and one of her brothers Lyle may also be there. And after the latest news according to which even Sollecito, following Knox (who’s back in the U.S.), will not be attending the first hearings of the trial, the lawyer Maresca reiterated the appropriateness of their presence in the courtroom. “It is necessary - he said – because it [judiciary] decides about their life and the death of a girl. Their presence is therefore a duty out of respect for the Florence Court of Assizes of Appeal.”

Attorney Maresca then noted how both legal defences have already lodged “ponderous [“memorie”] reports”. “It's as if they are asking - he added – for a re-do of the process. Theirs seems almost an appeal against the judgment of the Supreme Court, not provided for by the code of law”.

Lawyers for the Kercher family, representing the civil party, have not submitted any report [“memoria”] instead. “Our [“memoria”] report - highlighted attorney Maresca – is the judgment of the Supreme Court. A perfect measure, meticulous and comprehensive. For this reason - said the lawyer Maresca - we have adopted it in toto”.


LA NAZIONE (FIRENZE)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
One of he ongoing problems from misinterpretations is like this thing above in the Independent where they write such things as Thrown Out, but that is an idea out of tune with the actual concepts that are real, to say thrown out that way connects to the idea of let's say, British law, were to get an appeal it is very, very difficult indeed, it is the same way in America, so using these slogan-like, sensational sounding bits is entirely inappropriate as there was never a sensational, final, done-with-it-all deal/case/circumstance, it was always going to be a question of appeals, since that is part of the usual Italian sytem, using ideas about other concepts of law used in other countries has nothing to do with the reality of the case being carried out in Italy, nowhere else, in Italy.
So to say Thrown Out is just a misrepresentation of the way things really were and are.

It's no big deal, it never was thrown out.
It never was a new trial.

Knox and Sollecito know full well what the real circumstances are and the facts, but the ignorance that exists outside Italy is gladly misused by both. Knox religiously carried her personal copy of the Italian Penal Code in and out of the courthouse, she fully grasps the system of appeals, yet pretends she does not, by playing the game of I do not understand, it was thrown out, and now we have to go through all of this. Yet she knew that her release was not going to be the end of it, she also knew if she had not been released, that it would likewise not have been the end of it, since SHE would have appealed, Sollecito would have appealed, they are so full of shit.

What Michael noted, the fact they never should have been released, I agree with and always thought so too, that it was terrible how they'd gotten let out, the way I see that, is: it is a flaw in the system. How can this be allowed to happen, look what we have now with Knox getting on the first plane out.

She now pretends that it is all about money, or she'd love to be there in court, crap, no she would not, and, I still do not believe that her family even needed to mortgage the dog's kennel.

It was all paid for by the media. She still has got money. Her lawyers did not cost millions, and the money from the interviews, etc., took care of all of that, this is why in making up even more bullshit she forgot to include Patrick in her sad tale of woe, simply because the rest of what she said is also untrue, she hasn't paid shit.



That's the question of the day, Zorba. Why DELIBERATELY misrepresent the workings of the Italian Legal System? Wouldn't she still be faced with the same nightmare if she accurately explained how things work? More dramatic this way, I suspect.



The answer to that Nap, is that from day one, there has been a course characterised by a strategy which employs the undermining of everything to do with the case, everything to do with the law in Italy.

I think there are still a few secrets, like the connections between some, because no sooner than the murder happened, there was Candace Facedrop embarking on this very course, Michael knows that because he too wrote on her blog before we all got to find out what she was up to, ordinary fair discussion was totally impossible there, she shaped the image in the way she saw fit and stopped every other comment that might show that what she was saying was shit and untrue, she wrote openly like some big kid how she was doing so well, with all of the activity on her blog, she thought she had made it or something, because prior to Meredith's death nobody had ever visited her blog, no traffic, so with her the power went to her head, until she was left with a group of yeah-sayers all wiping up her business after her, it stank to high heaven, her dog packed its bag and pissed off too. It was disgusting, she was and is and why I am saying this is because in no way could she have actually had a real opinion on matters as nobody did, it had only just happened but there she was, forcing life to imitate what she dictated, she was directing how it would be and she hasn't stopped. Either she knew the Knox's or she was simply that vulgar that she immediately saw a chance to get money from publishers, we do know that she already had a deal but she did not have a subject, so she saw this case and sprang on it, not caring about anyone, in actual fact.

After that, she then became at least useful to the Knoxion Family as she was like a propaganda machine, yet, just how useful was she really? Are people really all so stupid? No, they are not, and so the extent her power went to was not very far at all.

I'm only mentioning her though as she is typical of the rest of Knox's support, as there is something obviously not quite right about her, as is the case with the others too, the deranged nature of the initial crimes have appealed to those equally able it would appear to lie, it is clear, at least, that they think nothing of murder, because instead of fair debate, they twist and manipulate, at that point I am certain they do not care and have all kinds of own personal reasons for latching onto such a thing, and not all of those reasons can be the resilt of a misplaced sense of patriotism.

I noticed they didn't hire any hip hop type band to appear, no, I think many at their wee get togethers would have preferred to hire a bunch of southern plantation type workers, in costume, and called them mammy, while ordering them, quite literally, to serve food. What right-thinking black person would ever, knowing what Knox did to Patrick, want to get together with that lot, only the insane would, because what she did was and insult every black person living and dead.

It seems that Knox and her up-until-now-faithful-hound Solopsycho have been filled-in by their relations as to what is what and those two have adopted the lines pushed by the families, particularly Knox's family.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

For any of you (outside of the European Union) who may be considering visiting Italy to attend any of the hearings, here are simplified instructions on getting a Visa: how to get a visa for Italy , simplified all here!

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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Got to wondering what Ted Simon has been up to lately and was instantly rewarded with this news:

Judge: American suspected in slayings of 4 relatives in Czech Republic can be extradited

Quote:
ALEXANDRIA, Va. — A judge ruled Thursday that a California man wanted by the Czech Republic in the killings of four members of his extended family can be extradited to face murder charges.

Kevin Dahlgren, 21, has been in U.S. custody since May 23, when he was arrested at Dulles International Airport after returning to the U.S.

Czech authorities suspect that Dahlgren killed the four extended family members — Martin Harok, Veronica Harokova and their children Filip and David Harok — in their home in the city of Brno. Dahlgren had been staying with them for a few weeks before they were killed.

The four were found dead with various stab wounds. Three of the four bodies showed evidence that someone had tried to set them on fire.

Dahlgren’s lawyer, Theodore Simon, tried to suppress some of the evidence against his client at an extradition hearing Thursday in U.S. District Court, arguing that it came from an invalid search warrant.

For instance, he tried to submit evidence that Martin Harok’s cellphone records show that the phone was in multiple locations after his death, and that Dahlgren was not the one who possessed it.

Simon also tried to point out what he saw as inconsistencies in authorities’ theory of the case.

But U.S. Magistrate Judge Ivan Davis said the search warrant was valid and that extradition law requires prosecutors to prove only probable cause, a relatively low standard.

Prosecutor Patricia Haynes said the evidence far exceeds the standards needed to support an extradition.

“Five people are in the home. Four get killed. One flees. That alone, we submit, is probable cause” to support the extradition, Haynes said.

Even further, she said, shorts stained with the blood of one of the victims were found in Dahlgren’s luggage and a cleaning lady told authorities that Dahlgren refused to let her into the Haroks’ home the day of the killings.

Dahlgren, in a green jail jumpsuit, said nothing throughout the two-hour hearing. His father, Wayne Dahlgren, who is listed as having a Roseville, Calif., address, said after the hearing, “We remain 100 percent supportive of Kevin’s innocence. We believe in the arguments our attorneys have made and we’re not going to stop in our support of Kevin until he is exonerated.”


Simon said he will appeal Davis’ ruling.

“We have significant procedural, substantive and constitutional arguments which we will continue to vigorously assert,” he said.

Neither Wayne Dahlgren nor Simon would comment on specific aspects of the case.

If tried and convicted in the Czech Republic of committing four murders, Dahlgren would face up to life in prison.

Davis’ ruling, if upheld, merely allows the State Department to extradite Dahlgren. The State Department would then make its own determination about whether to extradite.

The case has received extensive news media coverage in the Czech Republic, and drew multiple Czech-language journalists to Thursday’s hearing.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Kevin Dahlgren is white, so BF will probably register injusticeinbrno.org any minute now.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Friends of Amanda are pretty busy these days. What will Preston say in this new interview? Will he whine about his 'unlawful' interrogation by Mignini and smear the prosecutor again, even though GM is no longer involved in prosecuting Amanda Knox? Find out tomorrow.

Beth Karas Interviews Douglas Preston About Amanda Knox

Join Beth Karas in an exclusive Wild About Trial Spreecast as she interviews renowned author Douglas Preston about the Amanda Knox case. This event will be held on Tuesday, September 17th at 8pm ET. Click here to RSVP and watch live.


WILD ABOUT TRIAL

Beth Karas learned how to navigate the courtroom during her eight years as an Assistant District Attorney in New York City under legendary District Attorney, Robert Morgenthau. For nearly two decades, she has offered insight, analysis, and on-the-spot reporting on legal stories from courthouses across the country in order to educate and enlighten the public about the justice system via televised criminal and civil trials.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Iodine wrote:
Kevin Dahlgren is white, so BF will probably register injusticeinbrno.org any minute now.


Was just about to say the Matter Hatter's Tea Party will be round for tea soon.

This article should provide Ms Knox with lots of assurance, while her ex swings like a monkey from the vines resembling thick ropes, which funnily enough reminded him of himself, and no, not in the Caribbean, but up the creek in the Amazon jungle, shouting like Tarzan: I've got the money.

Yes from his donors. They must all just love that, him collecting but only ever having had his sights set on a Caribbean extravagence.

Dear Father, it is sunny here, but I have no sanitation and am running out of clothes, do you happen to have any more of that money wherever it came from? You would like it here dad, there are mosquitos and snakes and shit.
I hope I do not need to remind you that it was all your fault, that with mother, and well, me in this, I was traumatised, and I have just realised, I had PTSD too, all along, I'm not saying this just because the ex says she had it, yes she did say that pap-par, a bird told me, this was clear on film too, at the hotel, I saw the unedited versions on my paraffin propelled projector, there were 456 takes, she had to run up and down the hall, but I believe her, don't you? Anyway father, I am placing this note in a bottle and hoping it finds its way to you soon, your son, Raffaele Crusoe

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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nikki Battiste has written another press release for the Friends of Amanda on the ABC News website:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/amanda-knox-ha ... d=20270684

She can be contacted via Twitter:

@NikkiBattiste

https://twitter.com/NikkiBattiste
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
...while her ex swings like a monkey from the vines resembling thick ropes, which funnily enough reminded him of himself, and no, not in the Caribbean, but up the creek in the Amazon jungle, shouting like Tarzan: I've got the money.

Yes from his donors. They must all just love that, him collecting but only ever having had his sights set on a Caribbean extravagance.


:) Sollecito probably took a cue from an accomplice of another sex-killer (Paul Bernardo), Karla Homolka, who now lives as Leanne Bordelais on the French island of Guadeloupe in the Caribbean.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAKvY1L6I8E

Karla Homolka is a mother of three living in the Caribbean, new book says

He thought it might be a good hiding place for him too - so many islands, easy to disappear and get lost. Take your pick where he is hiding now, St Lucia perhaps, as its name at least sounds somewhat Italian? ;)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CaribbeanIslands.png
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Looks like many of Popper's predictions made shortly after the acquittal verdict in 2011 just might come true. He accurately predicted an approx. amount of money Knox would get as an advance for her book and he correctly foretold that Sollecito would be on the run hiding from justice (just substitute Greece for Switzerland, Spain for the United States, and the island of Ibiza for one of the islands in the Caribbean.) ;)

Here's Popper's post again, for your enjoyment:

Post by Popper: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:13 am

Popper wrote:
Imagine the following development:

Amanda Knox, aka Foxy Koxy [aka Fort Knox after she made $5 million from her book deal] convicted of murder aggravated by sexual violence to 30 years in prison by the Supreme Court of Cassazione in December 2012, fugitive, request of extradition denied [on whatever political excuse], international arrest warrant by Interpol, top 20 fugitives list ... did not give a dime of the $5m to the family of Meredith or Lumumba.

Sollecito escaped to Greece then Spain, Brazil then back in Spain where he was arrested in 2015 on the island of Ibiza. He was recognised by an Italian tourist, member of PMF, a website that for 8 years has sought truth and justice for Meredith Kercher, even though he is changed and has grown a beard. His new [fake] name was Sergio Bianco. He is extradited back to Italy in 2016.

It is now 2029.

Sollecito has been in jail, again in Terni, for 13 years. He is to be paroled in 6 months and already works outside during the day in the software department of a cooperative company in Terni. He has confessed the murder he never spoke about after 6 years in jail, in 2022. Guede left prison on parole in 2018 and in 2021 has become a free man.

Amanda is aged 42, has lived in Seattle with no worries even if she is a fugitive for a sexual murder in Europe. She had some problems with drugs in the past. She takes anti-depressants. She has two kids a boy named Raphael and a girl named Cara. She denies, through her sisters as she does not talk to the press - the facts confessed by Sollecito in 2022 and for which she was convicted. She never submitted to a lie detector test so in the US now they believe she did it. The money from the years she was popular have been mostly spent by the family. She has lawsuit from certain media who believed her to be innocent and want their money back. She met her husband as he was her doctor for a little surgery she underwent. Her husband is one of those guys who shoots at deers ... he tells her he shoots only the old ones, those who would not survive the next winter. She likes that. He never believed to the bad stories they tell on her, that she is an assassin. If she did anything it must have been as that girl had looked for trouble, Amanda was defending herself and the extreme happened ... anyway it was Rudy Lumumba the black guy who killed, this is the best truth she could think of telling him but he mixes up names.

The kids like to stay out in the nature, play with little animals and occasionally cut their throats as their mom taught them. Her little boy wishes to go across the border to Canada just for a week end. He wants to see Vancouver and the beautiful nature over there. This time she makes an exception, she never travels abroad but she feels certain nothing is going to happen to her.

A 65 year old Canadian member of PMF - a website that for 22 years has sought truth and justice for Meredith Kercher - sees her in the street and calls the police. In no time she is caught and arrested. She is extradited in 2029 and sent to the same Terni prison where Sollecito is ending his jail time. They are allowed to talk and Sollecito tells her "you could have said goodbye", she says "sorry I wanted to get out before that moron judge who had fallen in love with me had second thoughts". Her husband hires Marriott again, starts even a hunger strike but this time there is nothing to do. He therefore divorces and gets the kids. He remarries. She will be there for at least 20 years before parole, everyone knows that in Italy they are lenient !! Sollecito at times goes to visit her and bring her treccina pugliese, taralli and orecchiette. When she is released may be they will get married and settle in Polignano a Mare, near the sea.


:)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Something a little different:

Amanda Knox multimedia projects highlight the power of words
By Eric Reguly

Sienna Reid’s whimsical apartment in Rome’s ancient Monti neighbourhood has morphed into a tantalizing cultural testament to Amanda Knox, the American student who was convicted, and later acquitted, of the murder of her British roommate in Perugia, Italy.
...
Reid has painted about 40 portraits of Knox, some of which make her look stern and angry, while others give her the air of sweet innocence. All are inspired by journalists’ photographs. The colours are vibrant, almost Warhol-like.
...
Reid is assembling the Knox works into a multimedia show that will include three 15-minute films...

The artist, who has had more than a dozen gallery shows in Rome, is talking to contemporary art museums and galleries in the city about hosting the show. She is also moving to Brooklyn, and hopes to take the show to New York and Seattle, where Knox lives. Reid was raised in Port Townsend, just north of Seattle near the B.C. border, and considers Knox a sister home-town girl.


THE GLOBE AND MAIL
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The following transcripts are now available

Dr. Lorenzo Rinaldi
Pietro Boemia
Francesco Sollecito
Edda Mellas
Francesco Introna
Alessia Ceccarelli
Carmela Occhipinti
Lucia Salsiccioli
Pasqualino Coletta
Sara Boccali
Marco Marzan
Ana Maria Chiriboga
Atteo Palazzoli
Paolo Brocci
Riccardo Luciani
Pieto Campolongo
Raffaele Argiro
Paolo Farsi
Franceso Pasquali

All of those are in Italian. I have cleaned up the OCR for Rinaldi and Boemia and will clean up the rest when I can. I'm also adding the overhead images displayed in court during the testimony to Rinaldi and Boemia.

Thanks to Catnip we also have Argiro in English.

I still have about ten witnesses to process but I figured if anyone wants some reading material. We plan to summarize them all in English and then translate the ones that we can.


Last edited by Nell on Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fixed typo
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
zorba wrote:
...while her ex swings like a monkey from the vines resembling thick ropes, which funnily enough reminded him of himself, and no, not in the Caribbean, but up the creek in the Amazon jungle, shouting like Tarzan: I've got the money.

Yes from his donors. They must all just love that, him collecting but only ever having had his sights set on a Caribbean extravagance.


:) Sollecito probably took a cue from an accomplice of another sex-killer (Paul Bernardo), Karla Homolka, who now lives as Leanne Bordelais on the French island of Guadeloupe in the Caribbean.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAKvY1L6I8E

Karla Homolka is a mother of three living in the Caribbean, new book says

He thought it might be a good hiding place for him too - so many islands, easy to disappear and get lost. Take your pick where he is hiding now, St Lucia perhaps, as its name at least sounds somewhat Italian? ;)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CaribbeanIslands.png


Yes you'd be surprised just how simple they are, or, actually, maybe not so surprised.

Now Homolka and partner, even the sound of their names scares me, why?
Because I was horrified and so upset to read what happened to their victims, it was beyond belief.
Then how someone could get released so soon, darn.

Throgh this case, Meredith's murder I landed up on certain crime websites and on reading those things, I mean one needs to be careful how much you absorb, it's just so terrible, I mean there's this worn out line about women somehow not being known, ever, to do anything like get involved in rape and murder, but one stiory I read was one of the most awful I ever heard, anywhere, and these were kids, they murdered their friend, one coaxed her into coming out, tricked her and the others were waiting on her, and then the other girl who was angry at her, because she herself was lesbian and the victim wasn't into her, directed it all, and was wicked, abusing this girl in every way imaginable, then they set fire to her. And people want to pretend that it's only males who are capable of such stuff? What..

Like I can hardly bering myself to even write homolka's name, and, I'm like that really with Knx and Sollecito, I refuse to have their sound waves in my brain, that is why I do not watch anything with them in it, or listem, I do not think I've listened to more than a minute at a time of anything, all except for that audio fromSollecito, and then I mean, I'm angry when I hear him, and cannot mention what that makes me feel like, so, yes, these things need to be handled carefully, there's a lot of bad vibes in and around these people, they can keep it.
And that is why I have to take the piss out of them too, and that in all seriousness, as John Lennon said, people in Britain are always cracking jokes, laughing, whistling and singing, because they are in pain, and, yes, I think that's how it is for me, I can't just accept this crap an allow it to be anywhere near my soul, it's too painful, I entirely get Popper and his humour, it's the only way to survive rhese bataastards and their terrible unkindnesses.

I often wondered where Popper went, a nice person.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
The following transcripts are now available

Dr. Lorenzo Rinaldi
Pietro Boemia
Francesco Sollecito
Edda Mellas
Francesco Introna
Alessia Ceccarelli
Carmela Occhipinti
Lucia Salsiccioli
Pasqualino Coletta
Sara Boccali
Marco Marzan
Ana Maria Chiriboga
Atteo Palazzoli
Paolo Brocci
Riccardo Luciani
Pieto Campolongo
Raffaele Argiro
Paolo Farsi
Franceso Pasquali

All of those are in Italian. I have cleaned up the OCR for Rinaldi and Boemia and will clean up the rest when I can. I'm also adding the overhead images displayed in court during the testimony to Rinaldi and Boemia.

Thanks to Catnip we also have Argiro in English.

I still have about ten witnesses to process but I figured if anyone wants some reading material. We plan to summarize them all in English and then translate the ones that we can.


If you need a decent OCR converter? I know one, it gets most of it, then you have to correct what it got wrong. It converts into Word. It doesn't retain the layout, and that's a pity. If you know a free one that does retain the original layout, I'd love to know about it.
Adobe has a very good conversion programme but they are so expensive and I do not have credit cards (they do everything with credit cards) anyhow, but their thing converts and leaves everything exactly how it was. Would save me hours of work.

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Last edited by Nell on Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fixed typo in McCall's quote
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I have OmniPage and Acrobat Pro. I've been going back and forth between them and I don't see much difference. The accuracy is good but not perfect. Once I have them online I go though them with an an Italian spellchecker and compare everything with a red line under it to the original document.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
I have OmniPage and Acrobat Pro. I've been going back and forth between them and I don't see much difference. The accuracy is good but not perfect. Once I have them online I go though them with an an Italian spellchecker and compare everything with a red line under it to the original document.


That's the one I mean Acrobat Pro, here I can only get it with credit cards, and I don't use credit cards, most people don't use them here.

I'm going to look up the other one you mentioned, I thought Acro Pro was good, it almost got it all right. I think they charge a fortune for their stuff though.

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Offline ollie


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi, Has anyone seen the photo shoot of Knox family in the New York Post. One is of Knox sitting on a wall with Seattle as a backdrop. She is holding a copy of "To Kill A Mocking Bird". Wonder what Harper Lee would make of Knox? Oh yes I see you falsely named the black guy Lumumba, then you say it can only be the hand of another black man, Guede ,your accomplice and of course your certain that your family history has nothing to do with it.

The Knox/Sollecito families know no shame and will stoop to the lowest indiginity to gloss over the awful truth.

Zorba I read you comments with real interest.This case has got to a lot of people for a lot of different reasons I guess; the intrusion of PR and media hustle on a legal process, the woeful lack of honest reporting, the deep indignation at the loss of Meredith and the subsequent blood money made by the Knox family, not to forget the criminal parents of Sollecito and Knox..I would agree with you that there is no point in dignifying the lunatic FOA brigade with any reply. Hopefully the media circus will come to an end and Knox and Sollecito will serve their original sentences plus.
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Offline McCall


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Posts: 291

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
McCall wrote:
I have OmniPage and Acrobat Pro. I've been going back and forth between them and I don't see much difference. The accuracy is good but not perfect. Once I have them online I go though them with an an Italian spellchecker and compare everything with a red line under it to the original document.


That's the one I mean Acrobat Pro, here I can only get it with credit cards, and I don't use credit cards, most people don't use them here.

I'm going to look up the other one you mentioned, I thought Acro Pro was good, it almost got it all right. I think they charge a fortune for their stuff though.


OmniPage is dedicated OCR scanning software while Acrobat Pro is more document manipulation that ha OCR built in. Acrobat Pro is much more versatile . Unless you plan to scan mountains of documents I don't think OmniPage is useful.

------------

Obviously I meant now available rather than not available. Maybe someone could edit that for me.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
One of he ongoing problems from misinterpretations is like this thing above in the Independent where they write such things as Thrown Out, but that is an idea out of tune with the actual concepts that are real, to say thrown out that way connects to the idea of let's say, British law, were to get an appeal it is very, very difficult indeed, it is the same way in America, so using these slogan-like, sensational sounding bits is entirely inappropriate as there was never a sensational, final, done-with-it-all deal/case/circumstance, it was always going to be a question of appeals, since that is part of the usual Italian sytem, using ideas about other concepts of law used in other countries has nothing to do with the reality of the case being carried out in Italy, nowhere else, in Italy.
So to say Thrown Out is just a misrepresentation of the way things really were and are.

It's no big deal, it never was thrown out.
It never was a new trial.

Knox and Sollecito know full well what the real circumstances are and the facts, but the ignorance that exists outside Italy is gladly misused by both. Knox religiously carried her personal copy of the Italian Penal Code in and out of the courthouse, she fully grasps the system of appeals, yet pretends she does not, by playing the game of I do not understand, it was thrown out, and now we have to go through all of this. Yet she knew that her release was not going to be the end of it, she also knew if she had not been released, that it would likewise not have been the end of it, since SHE would have appealed, Sollecito would have appealed, they are so full of shit.

What Michael noted, the fact they never should have been released, I agree with and always thought so too, that it was terrible how they'd gotten let out, the way I see that, is: it is a flaw in the system. How can this be allowed to happen, look what we have now with Knox getting on the first plane out.

She now pretends that it is all about money, or she'd love to be there in court, crap, no she would not, and, I still do not believe that her family even needed to mortgage the dog's kennel.

It was all paid for by the media. She still has got money. Her lawyers did not cost millions, and the money from the interviews, etc., took care of all of that, this is why in making up even more bullshit she forgot to include Patrick in her sad tale of woe, simply because the rest of what she said is also untrue, she hasn't paid shit.



That's the question of the day, Zorba. Why DELIBERATELY misrepresent the workings of the Italian Legal System? Wouldn't she still be faced with the same nightmare if she accurately explained how things work? More dramatic this way, I suspect.



The answer to that Nap, is that from day one, there has been a course characterised by a strategy which employs the undermining of everything to do with the case, everything to do with the law in Italy.

I think there are still a few secrets, like the connections between some, because no sooner than the murder happened, there was Candace Facedrop embarking on this very course, Michael knows that because he too wrote on her blog before we all got to find out what she was up to, ordinary fair discussion was totally impossible there, she shaped the image in the way she saw fit and stopped every other comment that might show that what she was saying was shit and untrue, she wrote openly like some big kid how she was doing so well, with all of the activity on her blog, she thought she had made it or something, because prior to Meredith's death nobody had ever visited her blog, no traffic, so with her the power went to her head, until she was left with a group of yeah-sayers all wiping up her business after her, it stank to high heaven, her dog packed its bag and pissed off too. It was disgusting, she was and is and why I am sayin this is because in no way could she have actually had a real opinion on matters as nobody did, it had only just happened but there she was, forcing life to imitate what she dictated, she was directing ghow it would be and she hasn't stopped. Either she knew the Knox's or she was simply that vulgar that she immediately saw a chance to get money from publishers, we do know that she already had a deal but she did not have a subject, so she saw this case and sprang on it, not caring about anyone, in actual fact.

After that, she then became at least useful to the Knoxion Family as she was like a propaganda machine, yet, just how useful was she really? Are people really all so stupid? No, they are not, and so the extent her power went to was not very far at all.

I'm only mentioning her though as she is typical of the rest of Knox's support, as there is something obviously not quite right about her, as is the case with the others too, the deranged nature of the initial crimes have appealed to those equally able it would appear to lie, it is clear, at least, that they think nothing of murder, because instead of fair debate, they twist an manipulate, at that point I am certain they do not care and have all kinds of own personal reasons for latching onto such a thing, and not all of those reasons can be trhe resilt of a misplaced sense of patriotism.

I noticed they didn't hire any hip hop type band to appear, no, I think many at their wee get togethers would have preferred to hire a bunch of southern plantation type workers, in costume, and called them mammy, while ordering them, quite literally, to serve food. What right-thinking black person would ever, knowing what Knox did to Patrick, want to get together with that lot, only the insane would, because what she did was an insult every black person living and dead.

It seems that Knox and her up-until-now-faithful-hound Solopsycho have been filled-in by their relations as to what is what and those two have adopted the lines pushed by the families, particularly Knox's family.


Thanks for this, Zorba. This little blogspot you are referring to was parlayed into a spotlight narrator position on CNN's Crimes of the Century. Like I always say, it's like unraveling a bag of snakes. It's hard sometimes to know when to let go of one and start following another.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

ollie wrote:
Hi, Has anyone seen the photo shoot of Knox family in the New York Post. One is of Knox sitting on a wall with Seattle as a backdrop. She is holding a copy of "To Kill A Mocking Bird". Wonder what Harper Lee would make of Knox? Oh yes I see you falsely named the black guy Lumumba, then you say it can only be the hand of another black man, Guede ,your accomplice and of course your certain that your family history has nothing to do with it.

The Knox/Sollecito families know no shame and will stoop to the lowest indiginity to gloss over the awful truth.

Zorba I read you comments with real interest.This case has got to a lot of people for a lot of different reasons I guess; the intrusion of PR and media hustle on a legal process, the woeful lack of honest reporting, the deep indignation at the loss of Meredith and the subsequent blood money made by the Knox family, not to forget the criminal parents of Sollecito and Knox..I would agree with you that there is no point in dignifying the lunatic FOA brigade with any reply. Hopefully the media circus will come to an end and Knox and Sollecito will serve their original sentences plus.


Hi, ollie. Sometimes I avoid looking at the pictures altogether, and other times I look and don't comment about them. I have found, over the course of following this case, the pictures cover a wide range, IMO. There have been some pictures where she appears to be a lovely young woman. Others come across to me as having a mean-spirited look. And there have been a few, such as one in this group, where she looks more than a little manic.

Because I believe that the evidence proves that she is guilty of the murder, all pictures are difficult to look at. Such promise and such waste, all the way around.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Meredith Kercher lawyer hits out at no-show Amanda Knox

By Nicole Le Marie Sunday 15 Sep 2013 11:06 pm


METRO

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Image of Costa Concordia shipwreck being raised (today).

Green shutters, those roof tiles ... everywhere. I bet the roof tiles are the same as those from antiquity (roman).

Image
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
--- snip ---

Obviously I meant now available rather than not available. Maybe someone could edit that for me.

--- snap ---


Hi McCall,

I fixed your post and the quoted text by zorba.

Nell
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thank you
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
Thank you


You are welcome.

You can always edit your own posts by clicking on the edit button on the right upper corner of your post. To see that button you need to be logged in. Quotes need to be fixed either by the author of the comment who quoted the text or an admin.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
zorba wrote:
McCall wrote:
I have OmniPage and Acrobat Pro. I've been going back and forth between them and I don't see much difference. The accuracy is good but not perfect. Once I have them online I go though them with an an Italian spellchecker and compare everything with a red line under it to the original document.


That's the one I mean Acrobat Pro, here I can only get it with credit cards, and I don't use credit cards, most people don't use them here.

I'm going to look up the other one you mentioned, I thought Acro Pro was good, it almost got it all right. I think they charge a fortune for their stuff though.


OmniPage is dedicated OCR scanning software while Acrobat Pro is more document manipulation that ha OCR built in. Acrobat Pro is much more versatile . Unless you plan to scan mountains of documents I don't think OmniPage is useful.

------------

Obviously I meant now available rather than not available. Maybe someone could edit that for me.


Thanks I looked at omni, it's easier to get, as they work with different payment options, but I still want the Acro Pro thing, after what you said too, I need to convert PDF files that are inaccessible and scans, and I need to leave the outlay as it was, or else I have to messabout putting it right which in many cases is impossible to do.

I understood NOW rather than NOT.

Thanks for your advice and info.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

ollie wrote:
Hi, Has anyone seen the photo shoot of Knox family in the New York Post. One is of Knox sitting on a wall with Seattle as a backdrop. She is holding a copy of "To Kill A Mocking Bird". Wonder what Harper Lee would make of Knox? Oh yes I see you falsely named the black guy Lumumba, then you say it can only be the hand of another black man, Guede ,your accomplice and of course your certain that your family history has nothing to do with it.

The Knox/Sollecito families know no shame and will stoop to the lowest indiginity to gloss over the awful truth.

Zorba I read you comments with real interest.This case has got to a lot of people for a lot of different reasons I guess; the intrusion of PR and media hustle on a legal process, the woeful lack of honest reporting, the deep indignation at the loss of Meredith and the subsequent blood money made by the Knox family, not to forget the criminal parents of Sollecito and Knox..I would agree with you that there is no point in dignifying the lunatic FOA brigade with any reply. Hopefully the media circus will come to an end and Knox and Sollecito will serve their original sentences plus.



Didn't see that (photos) of her no Ollie. What's that word, furtive is it?

Yes it is, here ...


fur·tive (fûrtv)
adj.
1. Characterized by stealth; surreptitious.

2. Expressive of hidden motives or purposes; shifty. See Synonyms at secret.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[French furtif, from Old French, from Latin frtvus, from frtum, theft, from fr, thief; see bher-1 in Indo-European roots.]


That's right Ollie, what I'm pointing out is that the nature of the crimes, have attracted people who may also have something hidden, because many in their support of Knox have shown clearly that they are not ordinary decent citizens but persons with some kind of hidden reason, for being attracted to murderers.

Some of it simple-mindedness, like pseudo patriotism, this has been targeted, the sense of patriotism, but you have to be a truly simple mind to think that this murder has anything to do with national pride, if you are attracted to it with an idea of they got our girl, then you actually need your head examined, nobody has got anyone's girl, the only girl that was got is Meredith.

The falsification of actuality, like making out Italy is some strange place, where they all run about in loincloths while casting slaves to the lions in their dens is ridiculous; Italy is much safer than America is and Italy is a highly developed country, even if it has retained points of antiquity/beauty.

The guy who is getting extradited may jolt some people back into reality; if the case goes on to say that Knox and Sollecito are indeed guilty, Knox is going to be extradited, at no point is anyone going to say, listen that man, who killed the 4 okay, but she's pretty, we cannot send her, they are all against us.

It's laughable, those stupid ill-informed nonsensical ideas are.

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Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
ollie wrote:
Hi, Has anyone seen the photo shoot of Knox family in the New York Post. One is of Knox sitting on a wall with Seattle as a backdrop. She is holding a copy of "To Kill A Mocking Bird". Wonder what Harper Lee would make of Knox? Oh yes I see you falsely named the black guy Lumumba, then you say it can only be the hand of another black man, Guede ,your accomplice and of course your certain that your family history has nothing to do with it.

The Knox/Sollecito families know no shame and will stoop to the lowest indiginity to gloss over the awful truth.

Zorba I read you comments with real interest.This case has got to a lot of people for a lot of different reasons I guess; the intrusion of PR and media hustle on a legal process, the woeful lack of honest reporting, the deep indignation at the loss of Meredith and the subsequent blood money made by the Knox family, not to forget the criminal parents of Sollecito and Knox..I would agree with you that there is no point in dignifying the lunatic FOA brigade with any reply. Hopefully the media circus will come to an end and Knox and Sollecito will serve their original sentences plus.




Didn't see that (photos) of her no Ollie. What's that word, furtive is it?

Yes it is, here ...


fur·tive (fûrtv)
adj.
1. Characterized by stealth; surreptitious.

2. Expressive of hidden motives or purposes; shifty. See Synonyms at secret.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[French furtif, from Old French, from Latin frtvus, from frtum, theft, from fr, thief; see bher-1 in Indo-European roots.]


That's right Ollie, what I'm pointing out is that the nature of the crimes, have attracted people who may also have something hidden, because many in their support of Knox have shown clearly that they are not ordinary decent citizens but persons with some kind of hidden reason, for being attracted to murderers.

Some of it simple-mindedness, like pseudo patriotism, this has been targeted, the sense of patriotism, but you have to be a truly simple mind to think that this murder has anything to do with national pride, if you are attracted to it with an idea of they got our girl, then you actually need your head examined, nobody has got anyone's girl, the only girl that was got is Meredith.

The falsification of actuality, like making out Italy is some strange place, where they all run about in loincloths while casting slaves to the lions in their dens is ridiculous; Italy is much safer than America is and Italy is a highly developed country, even if it has retained points of antiquity/beauty.

The guy who is getting extradited may jolt some people back into reality; if the case goes on to say that Knox and Sollecito are indeed guilty, Knox is going to be extradited, at no point is anyone going to say, listen that man, who killed the 4 okay, but she's pretty, we cannot send her, they are all against us.

It's laughable, those stupid ill-informed nonsensical ideas are.


I think, Zorba, that this is what makes a PR campaign so wonderfully or (dreadfully) simple. Formulating a plan based upon bias, plain and simple. Young, white, beautiful, American, educated, girl, from a good family, in a foreign country. Take your pick from the list.

All of us have biases, whether we want to admit to them or not. I'm working on a few of my own, that I didn't realize even existed, before following this case. Most people don't seem to recognize that they have them.

So, how easy is it for a campaign to get started, preying on these feelings?

I really have to wonder how public opinion will change if there is a request for extradition. Political decision? How difficult will it be, considering Italy will also be imprisoning one of its own citizens. How will the fact that Sollecito will be charged in tandem play out? After all, he's one of those third world Eyetailans. Will he matter?
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I see that Knox has also given a short interview to Oggi (in Italian)

(((Not for the weak-hearted)))

Amanda Knox: "I am innocent. That's why I'm not going back to Italy "-
EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
We met Amanda Knox in Seattle, on the eve of the new Appeals process for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Here is an exclusive interview with Oggi.

KNOX OGGI INTERVIEW

She looks tired and stressed like a person in crisis. Why so much anger? And those shifty eyes, My God.

Google trans will follow soon!
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

That's a new one "I'm innocent, so I don't have attend court!"

Nobody in the world would attend their trials or appeals or other court hearings if "I'm innocent!" was considered to be a valid excuse to not attend.

What a lot of people don't know is that jails serving as a form of punishment is actually a very modern concept, from around Victorian times really. Up until after Medieval times, the sole purpose of jails was to hold people to prevent them from absconding before they could be tried. Before, jails existed to make sure people went to trial. Now, it's the other way around (or the main theme at least), trials exist to send people to jail. That's what this is all about for Knox, not about being innocent or not, but staying out of jail. She has single handedly proven that preventative custody is a necessary element of legal systems...for her especially. I'm fully expecting Sollecito to further reinforce that truth.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
zorba wrote:
ollie wrote:
Hi, Has anyone seen the photo shoot of Knox family in the New York Post. One is of Knox sitting on a wall with Seattle as a backdrop. She is holding a copy of "To Kill A Mocking Bird". Wonder what Harper Lee would make of Knox? Oh yes I see you falsely named the black guy Lumumba, then you say it can only be the hand of another black man, Guede ,your accomplice and of course your certain that your family history has nothing to do with it.

The Knox/Sollecito families know no shame and will stoop to the lowest indiginity to gloss over the awful truth.

Zorba I read you comments with real interest.This case has got to a lot of people for a lot of different reasons I guess; the intrusion of PR and media hustle on a legal process, the woeful lack of honest reporting, the deep indignation at the loss of Meredith and the subsequent blood money made by the Knox family, not to forget the criminal parents of Sollecito and Knox..I would agree with you that there is no point in dignifying the lunatic FOA brigade with any reply. Hopefully the media circus will come to an end and Knox and Sollecito will serve their original sentences plus.




Didn't see that (photos) of her no Ollie. What's that word, furtive is it?

Yes it is, here ...


fur·tive (fûrtv)
adj.
1. Characterized by stealth; surreptitious.

2. Expressive of hidden motives or purposes; shifty. See Synonyms at secret.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[French furtif, from Old French, from Latin frtvus, from frtum, theft, from fr, thief; see bher-1 in Indo-European roots.]


That's right Ollie, what I'm pointing out is that the nature of the crimes, have attracted people who may also have something hidden, because many in their support of Knox have shown clearly that they are not ordinary decent citizens but persons with some kind of hidden reason, for being attracted to murderers.

Some of it simple-mindedness, like pseudo patriotism, this has been targeted, the sense of patriotism, but you have to be a truly simple mind to think that this murder has anything to do with national pride, if you are attracted to it with an idea of they got our girl, then you actually need your head examined, nobody has got anyone's girl, the only girl that was got is Meredith.

The falsification of actuality, like making out Italy is some strange place, where they all run about in loincloths while casting slaves to the lions in their dens is ridiculous; Italy is much safer than America is and Italy is a highly developed country, even if it has retained points of antiquity/beauty.

The guy who is getting extradited may jolt some people back into reality; if the case goes on to say that Knox and Sollecito are indeed guilty, Knox is going to be extradited, at no point is anyone going to say, listen that man, who killed the 4 okay, but she's pretty, we cannot send her, they are all against us.

It's laughable, those stupid ill-informed nonsensical ideas are.


I think, Zorba, that this is what makes a PR campaign so wonderfully or (dreadfully) simple. Formulating a plan based upon bias, plain and simple. Young, white, beautiful, American, educated, girl, from a good family, in a foreign country. Take your pick from the list.

All of us have biases, whether we want to admit to them or not. I'm working on a few of my own, that I didn't realize even existed, before following this case. Most people don't seem to recognize that they have them.

So, how easy is it for a campaign to get started, preying on these feelings?

I really have to wonder how public opinion will change if there is a request for extradition. Political decision? How difficult will it be, considering Italy will also be imprisoning one of its own citizens. How will the fact that Sollecito will be charged in tandem play out? After all, he's one of those third world Eyetailans. Will he matter?



Right and a PR's strength is in that it knows how to brainwash people, through repetition, and, it will then issue instructions, do not do this, but do THIS.
So then the intructees will do that, saying the same stuff over and over because they've been told to, initiated as it were, inedeed not difficult because it stops people rattling their mouths of and contradicting on another, I can well imagine those people following the instructions, You are to say. ........... Use these KEY TERMS, repeat them as often as you can.

Hey, that Oggi, one would think it's owned By Spezi's family.

But like the Daily Mail or something, and the equivalent in the States, anyone writing for Oggi must be pretty crap, I mean the Daily Mail has a range of well-educated individuals writing stuff but they, in real life, must be some of the awful people you could never wish to meet, I mean, honestly, what does a gossip paper have to say? Nothing that's all, they ought to stick to Donald Duck and throwaway nonsense, like about celebrities.

Funny how Knox & Solosausagebrain always go for those with the highest standards, yeah Oggi, da da da la la la la land.
She must be soooo angry, that she canno just get on with her life and enjoy the profits of murder in cold blood.

Cranky drawers: Well,I did see he had blood on his hands at duinner, no I had no idea, IhI thought it was the fish, I did'nt smell anything fishy, but, maybe I stayed at home, maybe I had a read, maybe I went to sleep or maybe I can say I woke up, maybe we made the love and maybe I swept the floor, maybe I can't say whether I saw Patrick or not, maybe maybe maybe I kille someone, who am I to know.

Actually when they say MAKING LOVE, that's an awful idea, the audacity, divorcing then love from sex, making love, when they were killing someone, that's the oddest idea of love ever.

When I heard Knox wailing in court, I had to tuirn it off, only in bits was I able to tolerate her shite, but I instantly imagined her, freaking out at Meredith, I really think that emotional manic voice she let loose in court she called it up, by transferring the way she'd been breaking down AT Meredith on the night Meredith was murdered, and used it in court to try and sound convincing, as that is what her people would have told her she needed to do, after they read us saying that she was not convincing, that she had no strength of conviction, so like actors have to think about how their pet hamster got crushed under a fire truck one night, in order to induce tears, I reckon that's what she did, it in no way though sounded real, I could tell it was all fake.

I bet Knox had a type of breakdown at or in fron of Meredith, accusing her, unable to talk, choked up, because she couldn't take Meredith not wanting to be her friend, at least, that's the way she thought it was, but Meredith had no time to work it out, all as she knew was that she could not deal with Knox at the moment, but Knox obviously freaked out, unable to take it, and magnifying it in all the wrong ways, when Im'sure, given some time if Knox had been reasonable, Meredith would have gone ou of her way to help her.

That's why Knox afterards said it was stupid, I bet that bit was real, it was stupid as she'd realised she freaked out at Meredith for nothing.

So, where's this clown Sollecito now, Peru powdering his nose?

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Here is Sollecito on his island

Part 2 Scene: god knows how many

Meanwhile, on his island in the sun, Mr Raffaele Crusoe, catches his daily portion of bugs, and tries again to start a fire by rubbing sticks together hoping that one day he'll succeed and will not have to consume his protein-rich food in the raw state.

Crusoe: You know what (he says to himself as he is alone), I've had enough, it's all dad's fault, it's no use, I'm sooooooooooo innocent, why don't they know?
(slaps himself around the face and shouts, stop talking to yourself are you mad, then forgives himself, ah, he didn't mean it. His other self protests, I jolly well did mean it. His split personalities argue with each other for an hour both throwing punches and I hope they hurt.)

He continues, or one of him does, dad, it is definitely your fault and not mine, I know you are not here and I have several conversations going on with several different people, all of who are nowhere to be seen, but, I tell you, I can't take it any more, I'm going to fashion a rope from those trees and jump off that there rock into the ocean.

The very next morning the sad, sorry arsed loser, he with the spiteful, secretive streak, sits down after collecting long vines, and starts to fashion a rope with one of his favourite knives from his 125 knife collection.

Oh this is the life, me, the sea and my knives, I could almost forget that I'm about to commit suicide, I've wanted to for years, ever since I was a boy, all the time Crusoe is peeling away when losing concentration he cuts his finger, and immediately exclaims, It was not me, he said it doesn't matter, no problem, I must have been cooking.

He continues, better not do that again, I might kill myself by accident before I get to commit my suicide. He had decided to hang himself, being that he is scared of knives, or of pain, yes, from that there rock, I shall take my leave.
Meanwhile, the sun was beginning to set, he was still muttering something about this one thing in which he would not be a failure, fuxking Italians he hissed, fuxking law, fuxking school, fxuking everyone, where's my money.

The poor kid, yeah kid, 29, or is it 30, the poor kid had gone nuts, and its wasn't because of the sun beating down on his sweaty excuse for a head. Almost done.

Finally, he had a rope that looked like a long shoe lace.

Goodbye cruel world, you will miss me, I was too good for you all, all of you are imbeciles, not worthy of my superiority.

Standing up he started to walk towards his exit, when he stumbled over a rock and a splintering crack could be heard ricocheting through the forest groves, aaaaaaaaaaaaaah, he uttered biting on his tongue, aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

He was a truly pathetic SOB.

Up he got, the poor old wounded soldier, clambering up onto his chosen rock, he attached his noose to his ugly lying neck, and counted to 3, and then.... nothing happened, as he forgot he needed to jump, yes, he was slow that way.

He also never did understand his own language, when, in fact he'd grown up in a house where his sister talked about the law all the time, since she had to study the stuff, yes there they were at the dinner table, Papa, I have almost completed my studies, and I have had good marks all along, I have already been accepted by the Carabinieri, Crusoe, if you would like to read my books you're welcome.

Oh thank you sister, I have been reading them already, very interesting indeed.

But no, when Mr Crusoe needed to, he acted like he was mute, deaf and more than dumb.

Yes father he continued in his multiple personality mindset, it's your fault that's why.

After he'd prayed to some devil, he again counted to 3 and sprang with all of his might into the dark ocean, but it was not a deep dark ocean, not there, not anywhere, as it was all very shallow, BONK, a huge thud, there he lay... until he awoke with a huge headache. Oh no he said, I cannot even commit suicide successfully. I hate you world. I've really had it here, I shall fashion me a boat and set sail for my homeland and admit my guilt and my ex's, serve my time, and try to recover my minds.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline malvern


Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Posts: 503

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
I see that Knox has also given a short interview to Oggi (in Italian)

(((Not for the weak-hearted)))

Amanda Knox: "I am innocent. That's why I'm not going back to Italy "-
EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
We met Amanda Knox in Seattle, on the eve of the new Appeals process for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Here is an exclusive interview with Oggi.

KNOX OGGI INTERVIEW

She looks tired and stressed like a person in crisis. Why so much anger? And those shifty eyes, My God.

Google trans will follow soon!

So she is not returning because she is trying to rebuild her life here. She doesn't have the resources 'sincerely' she adds to return. The proof of her innocence is that there isn't a trace of her in the room " there isn't a trace of me in that room where my friend was murdered" She goes on to say how could she clean her traces but leave those of the person who ' truly' killed Meredith. How could she have participated in an orgy and murder and there exists no trace. This 'proof' of her innocence was ignored by the SC. They can discuss or speculate about things circumstantial but there is the proof. She says she still has trust in the Italian justice system and doesn't want to prejudice that thought, She does say they need to look at the 'proof' logically and scientifically without prejudice .It really sounds like she is saying they have nothing of me in that room that's all that matters When asked about Sollecito at the end she smiles and says he knows she is close and adds ' we are stronger together......I can count on him he can count on me"
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
I see that Knox has also given a short interview to Oggi (in Italian)

(((Not for the weak-hearted)))

Amanda Knox: "I am innocent. That's why I'm not going back to Italy "-
EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
We met Amanda Knox in Seattle, on the eve of the new Appeals process for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Here is an exclusive interview with Oggi.

KNOX OGGI INTERVIEW

She looks tired and stressed like a person in crisis. Why so much anger? And those shifty eyes, My God.

Google trans will follow soon!


Thanks, guermantes. She really makes it difficult for people to like her. The lisp is back, and those fake smiles all the time...argh.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Darn Guermantes I though you meant iunterview interview, writing, what you doing t me, so, man, that spoy looks like a spot to take someone to bump em off, is that the only plsace she coluld work out, oh my god, the reporter though on her side must have been looking over his shoulder every two seconds

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Damn, she's still got the manky lip, and the darty eyes, I'm not listening by the way, she has certain movements which have now become part of her act, the curling of lips, the eyes cast down then right back up, requesting therein that you be in agreement, but still the eyes of a shithouse rat.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
guermantes wrote:
I see that Knox has also given a short interview to Oggi (in Italian)

(((Not for the weak-hearted)))

Amanda Knox: "I am innocent. That's why I'm not going back to Italy "-
EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
We met Amanda Knox in Seattle, on the eve of the new Appeals process for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Here is an exclusive interview with Oggi.

KNOX OGGI INTERVIEW

She looks tired and stressed like a person in crisis. Why so much anger? And those shifty eyes, My God.

Google trans will follow soon!

So she is not returning because she is trying to rebuild her life here. She doesn't have the resources 'sincerely' she adds to return. The proof of her innocence is that there isn't a trace of her in the room " there isn't a trace of me in that room where my friend was murdered" She goes on to say how could she clean her traces but leave those of the person who ' truly' killed Meredith. How could she have participated in an orgy and murder and there exists no trace. This 'proof' of her innocence was ignored by the SC. They can discuss or speculate about things circumstantial but there is the proof. She says she still has trust in the Italian justice system and doesn't want to prejudice that thought, She does say they need to look at the 'proof' logically and scientifically without prejudice .It really sounds like she is saying they have nothing of me in that room that's all that matters When asked about Sollecito at the end she smiles and says he knows she is close and adds ' we are stronger together......I can count on him he can count on me"


I noticed that, too, malvern. So now we have

-I don't understand why there has to be another trial
-I don't want to distract the proceedings with my presence
-I'm innocent
-I am poor

as reasons why she won't be attending the trial. If she's really creative she should be able to come up with some more.


Last edited by Ava on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Even looking at her sound off is awful, this curly lip and so on, she purses the lips and says in her gestures, they are all mad. Oh yeah sure Madam, you are not at all out of order are you, all the lies you told about people, how could anyone believe you when you accused so many people after you'd already falsely accused Patrick, what is in your fucking tiny mind to think you have any right at all to have people think you have any truth in you at all?

Any credibility you ever had was spent when you falsely accused Patrick, how could anyone believe a thing after doing that to someone?

I see her on a screen and I can smell death.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Damn, she's still got the manky lip, and the darty eyes, I'm not listening by the way, she has certain movements which have now become part of her act, the curling of lips, the eyes cast down then right back up, requesting therein that you be in agreement, but still the eyes of a shithouse rat.


I didn't have the sound on either, and I seriously thought that she was simply reading from a prepared script. That's what it looks like.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I wish I could describe that bit better Nap, where she makes those facial gestures and looks in the way someone would when referring to some mad people while taking a step backwards, I mean god it's so transparent, she always does it in all of those interviews, I bet you could describe it way better than I can.

We ought to piece together all of those bits, with her doing her they're all mad face, eyesbrows going up lips curling like a teacher saying humour them humour them (they cannot help it, we are above them)

And then saying they've got it all wrong, the very thing the court has said about the importance of how everything fits together and she tried to objectify it like anyone who really understands would accept that. You know her making out this apparent lack of traces in the room is everything, when the court has clearly specified that each part does fit together, they've substatiated/underpinned their reasoning in a most logical manner, and it makes complete sense.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Interesting both killers say they are innocent... yet shy away from presenting themselves and their theories of innocence in court. Yeah, right.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox: "I am innocent. That's why I'm not going back to Italy"
Exclusive interview with Oggi.

Amanda Knox talks with an open heart in an exclusive interview that is published in the weekly magazine Oggi, on newsstands tomorrow. She reveals that she is still afraid of seeing a psychologist, she wants to meet the family of Meredith Kercher.

Then, admits to being "clumsy in bed." She reveals why she is innocent: "At the crime scene there is not one trace of me [my DNA]. Not one. I would go back to Italy only if they [the investigators] admitted that they had made ​​a mistake." Here's what she told us in Seattle, where we met on the eve of the new appeals trial, which will open on September 30 in Florence.

"I AM STILL AFRAID, WON'T RETURN" - "I'm trying to rebuild my life," begins Amanda Knox in an exclusive interview with Oggi (on newsstands tomorrow.) "I have only one life, I can not afford to expose it to the danger of another injustice. Four years of my life have already been stolen, I have nothing more to expect in Italy: all I could say is what I'd told you in a hundred hearings, everything I owned - joy and innocence, trust in others - all of this has been taken away [from me]. I was a little girl when I got thrown in jail. Now I feel like I am 40 years older than I really am."

"I DID NOT KILL MEREDITH" - "I did not kill Meredith ," continues Amanda Knox in an interview with Oggi. "I did not kill my friend and I even thought of going to Florence, because it drives me crazy, the idea that someone can inflate his chest, pointing the finger at my empty chair and say, I'm guilty of a crime I didn't commit. I can understand that they can build an accusation, and a conviction, even though there is no evidence [no smoking gun], if there is no motive. But accusations against me are exaggerated."

"EVEN A PSYCHOLOGIST COULDN'T MAKE ME FEEL GOOD"- In an interview with the weekly [magazine] Oggi, Amanda Knox says, "Take a psychologist, for example, I have been there twice, my mother insisted on it ... I did not want to go, because I only knew prison psychologists and I can't say that helped me: they only thought to fill me with antidepressants ... The first time I went I could not say a word. The second time I spoke for 15 minutes and at the end I had a panic attack: I could not, and I can still feel the sadness, erase the feeling of being hunted. I always feel like those animals that are hunted by larger animals. After the acquittal, I thought that I would be fine, I'd come back and be as I was before, cheerful, carefree. I tried to convince myself that I was fine, it was a matter of time that the sadness would pass. But it didn't go away, the sadness, the months slipped by and I was always scared, exhausted. Now I have accepted being in this limbo, though maybe I'll be back to see a psychologist. Not even having written a book helped me to be "cured".

"THE INVESTIGATORS MUST ADMIT THEY MADE A MISTAKE" - "I understand the investigators," continues Amanda Knox in an interview with Oggi. "They were under pressure, they had to immediately find the culprits. As regards all the accusations brought against me, there had been this hasty and mistaken idea of my behavior, my alleged coldness, and so they decided that I had something to do with the murder, they did not know what, exactly, but somehow I had something to do with it, I was guilty and deserved jail time. I am very angry with the prosecutor Giuliano Mignini and with investigators, but would forgive them in an instant if they admitted it was wrong. They don't even say sorry, 'I/we are sorry'. I do not want revenge. I'd feel such peace if Mignini admitted he was wrong." Amanda continues : "To say that I am innocent, they would need to not only admit that a mistake had been made, but that it was ​​a mistake upon mistake, one after another, to cover a whole bunch of other errors. And investigators and judges do not want to admit to themselves and to the public it was wrong. It is a matter of reputation ... Human beings make mistakes even those deciding how to apply laws." [It's no secret that the justice system can be less than objective on occasion.]

"AM I CLUMSY IN BED? YES, I CONFIRM" - In an interview with Oggi, Amanda Knox has also said not feeling guilty about leaving her co-defendant Raffaele Sollecito to attend the new trial, which will open on September 30, alone. "Guilty? And why? I do everything to be with him: we feel the same, I always tell him to have courage, I say to all the world that he is innocent. How could I help him [by being] back? He suffers more than me, because all this - the wrongful conviction, the fury of the public, prosecutors and the media - are piled on him in his country, by his people. But I have no power ... I'm just his friend. He's my friend I can be proud of: I only learned from reading his book that he had been offered a deal to destroy my alibi in exchange for his freedom, and that he refused. He is an extraordinary person. I'm enormously fond of him. It was this affection, and it is important ... He told Oggi that I was clumsy in bed? Raffaele knows of what he speaks. Sure, I would have preferred that he protected most of my privacy."

"I WANT TO APPROACH THE KERCHERS" - "Contact the Kerchers? I'm still working on it and have been unsuccessful so far," says Amanda Knox in the exclusive interview with Oggi. "There is this abyss of pain that separates us that grew deeper during the trial process: I had not had the courage to cross it. Millions of times, I thought I'd approach them, and in a million different ways: I did not because I'm afraid that they would consider it a legal strategy or me doing it for publicity. I do not want them to think that of me. I read their statements on the process of Meredith. I read John Kercher's book. I was so absorbed and crashed by trial hearings, when I was in prison. I have not had the strength to cry, to digest [stomach, assimilate] the loss of Meredith . But I want to be able to meet them one day, I want to visit the grave of my friend with them. Without "forcing myself " on their pain: I hope to meet them midway. Although it is now still early, as they continue to think that I am guilty, and it's something that causes me great pain."

OGGI
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
I wish I could describe that bit better Nap, where she makes those facia lgestures and looks in the way someone would when rewferring to some mad people, I mean god it's so transaparent, she does it in all of those interviews, I bet you could describe it way better than I can.

We ought to piece together all of those bits, with her doing her, they're all mad face.

And then saying they've got it all wrong, the very thing the court has said about the importance of how everything fits together and she tried to objectify it like anyone who really understands would accept that. You know her making out this apparent lack of traces in the room is everything, when the court has clearly specified that each part does fit together, they've substatiated/underpinned their reasoning in a most logical manner, and it makes complete sense.


She's always come across as weirdly arrogant, hasn't she? Even when she's stressed.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

privilege of being out of there and also having such luminaries as donald trump
speaking up for her / showbiz lawyers / PR

knox can say "I am innocent. That's why I'm not going back to Italy."
(EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW)

that's it, final. knox has spoken

no need for lawyers, courts judges etc
all that stuff is far far away

did the bruce fischer radio show really have it (interview transcribed here), that the distance the
rock was thrown was 7 feet? it was 13 (measured by ergon) ... photographed

the whitewashed wall no traces - the levitating guede

rock the size of a BOWLING BALL the crux of the case

staged break in .. 1 footprint on the bathmat (etc etc etc) - if the original verdict
isn't confirmed, italian justice is a write off

we can wait for extradition request (the haters)
or people who see injustice and like logic
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
zorba wrote:
I wish I could describe that bit better Nap, where she makes those facia lgestures and looks in the way someone would when rewferring to some mad people, I mean god it's so transaparent, she does it in all of those interviews, I bet you could describe it way better than I can.

We ought to piece together all of those bits, with her doing her, they're all mad face.

And then saying they've got it all wrong, the very thing the court has said about the importance of how everything fits together and she tried to objectify it like anyone who really understands would accept that. You know her making out this apparent lack of traces in the room is everything, when the court has clearly specified that each part does fit together, they've substatiated/underpinned their reasoning in a most logical manner, and it makes complete sense.


She's always come across as weirdly arrogant, hasn't she? Even when she's stressed.


yes she has Ava, very much.

Now though, you know what the real situation is, it's this: She never had any trouble whatsoever as regards her conscience, so she got right on living her llife, she has no problems wit that, what she has a problem with is the fact that she must face justice and not something like you'd see in a comic strip made up world. She has no problem at all, and I'm afraid, if she wanted to meer Meredith's parents, well what better opportunity than in court.

They will never want to meet her, unless instead of what she is pretending it all is, she is admitting what she did.

She is totally bananas.

and that between the pair of them they even use this sexual thing, after everything that's happened, like as if anyone needed to know anything about them, like that.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

How to talk about Amanda Knox (a 2 min 11 sec video): an artist promoting herself?
Published Tuesday, Sep. 17 2013, 11:50 AM EDT

Artist Sienna Reid has created a sprawling multimedia project about Amanda Knox, the American student who was convicted, and later acquitted, of the murder of her British roommate in Perugia, Italy. She chats with Hannah Sung about her goals.

THE GLOBE AND MAIL
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Summary of the Oggi Interview in Corriere della Sera:

"I WANT THE JUDGE [magistrate] TO APOLOGIZE" - For Amanda [Knox], Italy is a synonym of prison and accusations. "I have nothing left there, years of therapy did not help, not even writing a book has set me free. I'd be feeling much better if only the judge had admitted a mistake."


CORRIERE DELLA SERA

It'd have been better for everyone if she'd just kept her big trap SHUT.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

PTSD? I witnessed this a few times in my life. Once, in a beloved uncle, but in those days, they called it shell shocked.
Hand to hand combat with Japanese soldiers. he spent months in a hospital and two years in the loving care of my grandparents. Once, and only once, did he share his experiences. Years and years after the fact. I won't even discuss it.

Someone close and dear to me is a Viet Nam veteran. Therapy helped some. Nightmares are common. Over or under-reaction in some circumstances is also common. It took three years before the subject could even be gently approached. And on a very limited basis.

Maybe Knox DOES suffer from some form of PTSD. I'm not an expert. Maybe some forms allow the sufferer to talk in interviews about all of their symptoms. My own opinion: therapy, and lots of it. I can't see a TV reporter helping any.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Oh my God, I'm appalled, Knox follows in Sollecito's footsteps and is set to appear on ITV's Daybreak on Monday!!! Shamelessness and tactlessness at the new height!

ITV Daybreak ‏@Daybreak 2h

Quote:
For the first time on British TV, Amanda Knox reveals all - She'll be live and EXCLUSIVE, Monday on @Daybreak http://itv.co/1gtFHjP
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Oh my God, I'm appalled, Knox follows in Sollecito's footsteps and is set to appear on ITV's Daybreak on Monday!!! Shamelessness and tactlessness at the new height!

ITV Daybreak ‏@Daybreak 2h

Quote:
For the first time on British TV, Amanda Knox reveals all - She'll be live and EXCLUSIVE, Monday on @Daybreak http://itv.co/1gtFHjP


I have an idea: Why don't the two of them just go back to ITALY and talk in court where it matters? Sickening.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The only PTSD she could possibly have is from the trauma caused to her by killing Meredith.
No doubt she was shocked at what she had done... and what caused her to do it.

It is hard to believe a convicted liar when they are speaking of victimization of themselves.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yet her book still can't be published there. Or in Italy :)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Speaking of slander, Michelle Moore is now on harry rag's case on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aq3fCk7 ... youtu.be&a

(comments)
Michelle Moore > 2 hours ago
Quote:
See how dirty their gloves were? It's amazing! They were supposed to change gloves OFTEN. Protocol is that when you pick up a new peice of evidence you always change gloves 1rst. Initially, I thought they were small time incompetent investigators. As crazy as it sounds at 1rst this bra clasp was planted It sounds inconceivable but it's not. My husband, Steve Moore was an FBI Agent, who believes it was definitely planted by a corrupt Mignini the day he realized they had NOTHING on Raffaele.yech


No wonder Knox and Sollecito can't be published in civilized countries; they're so tone deaf they don't know the difference between free speech and defamation.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
The only PTSD she could possibly have is from the trauma caused to her by killing Meredith.
No doubt she was shocked at what she had done... and what caused her to do it.

It is hard to believe a convicted liar when they are speaking of victimization of themselves.


Hi, dgfred. I believe that both of them are guilty. She states that she is suffering from PTSD. I don't think that means that she is innocent. It's probably possible that a guilty person COULD suffer from it. I do not know this for a fact, as I am not an expert on the subject. Someone with knowledge of the subject would have to explain to me if it is within the range of normal for a person suffering from this disorder to be so vocal and chatty about their symptoms, while doing nothing constructive to help. In my experience, it is not the normal reaction. Quite the opposite. My knee jerk reaction is that this is simply a bid for sympathy.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Speaking of slander, Michelle Moore is now on harry rag's case on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aq3fCk7 ... youtu.be&a

(comments)
Michelle Moore > 2 hours ago
Quote:
See how dirty their gloves were? It's amazing! They were supposed to change gloves OFTEN. Protocol is that when you pick up a new peice of evidence you always change gloves 1rst. Initially, I thought they were small time incompetent investigators. As crazy as it sounds at 1rst this bra clasp was planted It sounds inconceivable but it's not. My husband, Steve Moore was an FBI Agent, who believes it was definitely planted by a corrupt Mignini the day he realized they had NOTHING on Raffaele.yech


No wonder Knox and Sollecito can't be published in civilized countries; they're so tone deaf they don't know the difference between free speech and defamation.


Someone might want to mention to the Mrs. that her husband, the "Former FBI Agent", blew the profile on Frank. Right under his FBI nose, yet! lol.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
"THE INVESTIGATORS MUST ADMIT THEY MADE A MISTAKE" - "I understand the investigators," continues Amanda Knox in an interview with Oggi. "They were under pressure, they had to immediately find the culprits.


I am curious. In her interview, did she actually say culprits (plural), instead of culprit? I had thought that she believed that there was only one murderer, and that was Guede.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

sherrel wrote:
guermantes wrote:
"THE INVESTIGATORS MUST ADMIT THEY MADE A MISTAKE" - "I understand the investigators," continues Amanda Knox in an interview with Oggi. "They were under pressure, they had to immediately find the culprits.


I am curious. In her interview, did she actually say culprits (plural), instead of culprit? I had thought that she believed that there was only one murderer, and that was Guede.


Can't very well say that now, can they? Cassazione established, in the Guede ruling, that there were culprits. And they specifically noted that Hellman had no logical reasoning to say there was only one perp.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
The only PTSD she could possibly have is from the trauma caused to her by killing Meredith.
No doubt she was shocked at what she had done... and what caused her to do it.

It is hard to believe a convicted liar when they are speaking of victimization of themselves.



Who ever gets PTSD from doing something they enjoy?

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
sherrel wrote:
guermantes wrote:
"THE INVESTIGATORS MUST ADMIT THEY MADE A MISTAKE" - "I understand the investigators," continues Amanda Knox in an interview with Oggi. "They were under pressure, they had to immediately find the culprits.


I am curious. In her interview, did she actually say culprits (plural), instead of culprit? I had thought that she believed that there was only one murderer, and that was Guede.


Can't very well say that now, can they? Cassazione established, in the Guede ruling, that there were culprits. And they specifically noted that Hellman had no logical reasoning to say there was only one perp.



Of course they can...since when has the ruling of any court on any matter, including Cassation, ever prevented them from stating the direct opposite of their rulings to be the true fact/s?

No...Freudian slip that...and Knox and Sollecito are constantly doing it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Oh my God, I'm appalled, Knox follows in Sollecito's footsteps and is set to appear on ITV's Daybreak on Monday!!! Shamelessness and tactlessness at the new height!

ITV Daybreak ‏@Daybreak 2h

Quote:
For the first time on British TV, Amanda Knox reveals all - She'll be live and EXCLUSIVE, Monday on @Daybreak http://itv.co/1gtFHjP



It is despicable!!! BUT...it could be an opportunity. A chance for the Italians to issue a European Arrest Warrant. They could be tempted, since Knox has publicly declared that she will no longer co-operate with the Italian legal system and never return to Italy.

I am wondering though, how she managed to get a UK Visa with her criminal conviction.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Knox has started acting in a way to please her family, by taklking the way they dThe one thing that her actions in this regard show, is that she refuses to accept she did anything wrong when she accused Patrick, because, ahe is saying she blames Mignini, when everyone knows that there was no Mignini around when she took the trouble to set her thing in concrete by writing it out in full.

She talks like the dumb TV shows and her family do, by saying I had 4 years stolen, so that shows she is totally unrepentant, not even sorry about what she did to Patrick, she just doesn't care, saying it is someone else's fault allows her to carry on feeling NOTHING.

I reckon she has bought a fat house, and that's why she took the reporter to some place out of the way so nobody would get to see her, as she doesn't want them to see her nice new home she bought from the blood money, I would not be surprised at all, I do not think she has paid anyone a penny. Bad trip bad trip.

What really is a hell of a laugh is this she supports Raffaelle Crusoe and he her, wait till he gets put back in jail, o me, o my, see how long his honour lasts then.

Their behaviour really shows that they should never have been given any mitigation at all, they never deserved it, and they both deserve the heaviest sentence, life, with no parole.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
How to talk about Amanda Knox (a 2 min 11 sec video): an artist promoting herself?
Published Tuesday, Sep. 17 2013, 11:50 AM EDT

Artist Sienna Reid has created a sprawling multimedia project about Amanda Knox, the American student who was convicted, and later acquitted, of the murder of her British roommate in Perugia, Italy. She chats with Hannah Sung about her goals.

THE GLOBE AND MAIL




To that idiot, I say that THIS is far better art then her rubbish!!! ;) :


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Iodine wrote:
Kevin Dahlgren is white, so BF will probably register injusticeinbrno.org any minute now.

Har har...snicker.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
The only PTSD she could possibly have is from the trauma caused to her by killing Meredith.
No doubt she was shocked at what she had done... and what caused her to do it.

It is hard to believe a convicted liar when they are speaking of victimization of themselves.



Who ever gets PTSD from doing something they enjoy?


Nobody normal.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
tamale wrote:
.... Good photo Ergon!....


Thanks, tamale. The Lake District, England 2007. I was there with my family on holiday. Wordsworth country (and Beatrix Potter's too :)


I was referring to the FOA pic of you standing in space...but, no matter. Ha
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
Michael wrote:
dgfred wrote:
The only PTSD she could possibly have is from the trauma caused to her by killing Meredith.
No doubt she was shocked at what she had done... and what caused her to do it.

It is hard to believe a convicted liar when they are speaking of victimization of themselves.



Who ever gets PTSD from doing something they enjoy?


Nobody normal.



Sociopaths don't get PTSD.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
So basically what Raffaele Sollecito is saying is that if he has the feeling the appeal is going in his favour, he might consider showing up, otherwise he is going to skip the whole thing and stay in hiding out of fear he might be arrested.

I believe the chances of the guilty verdict being confirmed on appeal are very high, so I guess Sollecito will be on the run for a short time - until his arrest.


That is my take too.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi Everybody,

it gets worse:

Quarto Grado ‏@QuartoGrado 12m

Quote:
Friday '#quartogrado speaks to Amanda Knox: "If I were condemned, here is what I'll do" first interview to an Italian TV


I doubt she'd travel to Italy for that interview. She'll be in a studio somewhere outside Italy (in the US/UK?)

Only one word comes to mind, and it's NOT a "witch", but a similar-sounding word, beginning with a "b"............ (sorry)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

ITV teaser: Amanda Knox: Live and exclusive on Monday
(Video is not available to those outside the UK)

ITV's DAYBREAK
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

sherrel wrote:
guermantes wrote:
"THE INVESTIGATORS MUST ADMIT THEY MADE A MISTAKE" - "I understand the investigators," continues Amanda Knox in an interview with Oggi. "They were under pressure, they had to immediately find the culprits.


I am curious. In her interview, did she actually say culprits (plural), instead of culprit? I had thought that she believed that there was only one murderer, and that was Guede.


John Follain, who interviewed Meredith's friends and roommates, wrote in his book that Amanda Knox referred at the police station to the possible perpetrator in plural as well and the people present took notice of it.

"Soon afterwards, while Samantha was comforting Sophie, Amanda suddenly raised her eyes to the ceiling and shouted vehemently: ‘Those fucking bastards!’ Sophie and Samantha stared at each other, bewilderd. They thought Amanda must mean the murderers, because she then started to talk about what could have to Meredith. She repeated: ‘Why? Why? Why?’ Sophie and Samantha had assumed there was only one murder."
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Their behaviour really shows that they should never have been given any mitigation at all, they never deserved it, and they both deserve the heaviest sentence, life, with no parole.


I agree and hope that this time the courts will put them away for life. They deserve it.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
sherrel wrote:
guermantes wrote:
"THE INVESTIGATORS MUST ADMIT THEY MADE A MISTAKE" - "I understand the investigators," continues Amanda Knox in an interview with Oggi. "They were under pressure, they had to immediately find the culprits.


I am curious. In her interview, did she actually say culprits (plural), instead of culprit? I had thought that she believed that there was only one murderer, and that was Guede.


John Follain, who interviewed Meredith's friends and roommates, wrote in his book that Amanda Knox referred at the police station to the possible perpetrator in plural as well and the people present took notice of it.

"Soon afterwards, while Samantha was comforting Sophie, Amanda suddenly raised her eyes to the ceiling and shouted vehemently: ‘Those fucking bastards!’ Sophie and Samantha stared at each other, bewilderd. They thought Amanda must mean the murderers, because she then started to talk about what could have to Meredith. She repeated: ‘Why? Why? Why?’ Sophie and Samantha had assumed there was only one murder."

I remember that...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Summary of the Oggi Interview in Corriere della Sera:

"I WANT THE JUDGE [magistrate] TO APOLOGIZE" - For Amanda [Knox], Italy is a synonym of prison and accusations. "I have nothing left there, years of therapy did not help, not even writing a book has set me free. I'd be feeling much better if only the judge had admitted a mistake."


CORRIERE DELLA SERA

It'd have been better for everyone if she'd just kept her big trap SHUT.


What years of therapy? She was released in October 2011 and her father vehemently denied she would have any therapy. In another interview Knox stated she went once, freaked out, and did not go back for another year. So again, and unsurprisingly, she is lying about her years of therapy.

If it is true that she started any kind of therapy, I believe it happened only after her acquittal was annulled. She is under a lot of stress now, because she knows fighting extradition is her only choice.

Seeing how she is panicking the closer it gets to September 30, it suggests she has not made the right contacts yet to groom someone in the State Department to assure her extradition request will be denied.

I wonder sometimes how her parents must feel walking down the street knowing that everyone knows they are coming up with new lies and embellishments every day. How embarrassing it must be.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just saw that 'thoughful' has translated an interview with Francesco Sollecito from yesterday evening (RAI UNO, La Vita in Diretta, as Clander tells us).

I'm re-posting it here for our readers, with thanks to 'thoughtful'.

Post by thoughtful » 17 Sep 2013, 20:35

Brief summary of [Francesco] Sollecito's 15-minute interview (it looks like a dialogue, but it isn't verbatim, just the gist).

I=Interviewer
DS=Doctor Sollecito

I : On October 3, 2011 did you think it was all finally finished ?
DS : Yes, after years of unspeakable suffering and all our financial and other efforts to prove Raffaele’s innocence….it was the most beautiful day of my life. Finally I was able to hug my son and bring him home.

DS : Raffaele feels in limbo and I feel the same way. This isn’t a real way to live, it’s surviving. For me, my professional career is nearly over, but for him, he has no future, he can’t hope to find a job or construct anything. He doesn’t know what’s going to happen in Florence. He feels in limbo.

He spent a couple of months in America with relations. Now let’s say that he’s on vacation because I want him to relax before this new trial. But he will be there. He has no intention of defending himself from the trial [i.e. avoiding the trial], but he’ll defend himself at the trial.

I : mentions that Amanda will not be at the trial.
DS : A wrong image of Amanda was created, and by reflection of Raffaele, from the very start. That’s an anomaly of this country, because the prosecution holds all the cards and everything comes through them.

Before the terrible event, Raffaele talked to me a lot about Amanda, how sweet and childlike she was. It was his first important love story.

I : Amanda said that in Italy they’ve constructed a « dark lady » image of her. Raffaele said that this doesn’t resemble Amanda at all : just as an example, she liked him to brush her hair for hours rather than do something else. Was Raffaele really dependent on Amanda ?

DS : Absolutely not, why would he be dependent on anyone ? It was just a rather limited sexual experience. While in prison, Amanda was told that she had AIDS which terrified her and she made a list of all her sexual adventures to see how something like that could have happened.

I : But one can be dependent on another person in other ways than just sexual, for instance if the person has a strong character, they can also have a strong influence on feelings.

DS : Yes but they were just two kids, it was just romantic. Also, even though it was Raffaele’s first experience, he liked to cuddle her, it wasn’t a passionate relationship. It was essentially romantic. Do you know what Raffaele did in the first days ? He took her to see all the places near Perugia that he had visited with me and my wife. Assisi, the church of San Francesco, they were going to go to Gubbio. He was sharing with her the beautiful experiences that he had had with us.

I : When a couple is accused of something so important, often they end up by accusing each other. But that didn’t happen here. Why do you think ?

DS : Because they were both fully aware that they had nothing to do with Meredith’s death, they were both at Raffaele’s apartment that night, and had nothing to do with any other story. That’s why there was no way for them to give [a lot of hesitation] – to conclude – to give declarations that were different from the reality that they lived.

I : It’s important not to forget the victim. I would like to look at some pictures of her with you, and then ask you something very important.

[The images show a news report saying that while Raffaele will not be at the first, technical hearings, he will attend the later hearings of the trial, and that he communicated a request to the Kerchers to meet and talk with them, saying that if what happened to Meredith had happened to his sister he would go crazy. Amanda Knox claimed on TV that she also wanted to communicate with the Kerchers but her lawyers prevented her.]


I : If you were in the situation of Meredith’s father, would you accept Raffaele’s request ?

DS : Yes, absolutely yes, because I want to know the truth, I want to understand. I’m very happy that Meredith’s family will be coming to Florence, because they will finally be able to understand the truth.

I : But do you think you’ll speak with them ?

DS : Unfortunately, I don’t speak English. But I did try, at the end of the appeal trial, because they were present, but I didn’t manage to get near them because I wasn’t allowed. My daughter Vanessa was with me, and she could also be my translator. I wanted to talk with them, but if indeed as they tell me, they’ll be at the trial in Florence…

I : It could be an occasion for a talk between the parents ?

DS : Yes.

I : I have one last question. You have said in the past that you don’t want to appear in public and talk about Raffaele any more. Why did you accept our invitation ?

DS : Obviously, because I thought there would be a different outcome from the Supreme Court decision. [Looks pained] I thought it would be the end. But since instead the Supreme Court decided to reopen the case, I made myself do this, because I think it’s a right thing to do to inform public opinion of the truth of this terrible story.

I : Are you afraid ?

DS : Of course. I’m afraid because unfortunately it’s difficult to still have faith in people like the prosecutor who painted my son in all the very worst colors, or in judges like those of the first instance who in spite of everything, in spite of the evidence, in spite of the fact that proofs were lacking, still condemned my son to 25 years, no, 24 years. Of course I’m afraid. Still, I have faith, because we’ve worked a lot lately ; I’ve given a modest hand to my son’s lawyers. There’s a memorandum that will be deposited in Florence, and the judges in Florence who will read it may be convinced of how things really were.

I : And Raffaele will be there.

DS : Certainly.


http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=142628#p142628
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Andrea Vogt has a new piece up, 18 September Entry.

Quote:
The prosecution has also made two additional requests to the court:

1) request for another forensic review of knife to see if a small third trace that was never tested before can be examined. Experts in the first appeal deemed it low copy number and rejected requests to test it.

2) request to hear testimony from Luciano Aviello.


Awww yeah.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox Appeal II / Meredith Kercher Murder: Update Sept. 18, 2013
By Andrea Vogt

Meanwhile, both Knox and Sollecito have begun new media campaigns inside and outside of Italy. Sollecito, whose father is making the Italian talk show rounds, gave this exclusive video interview to a magazine columnist [Alessandro Penna] close to the Knox and Sollecito families for the magazine “Oggi” while in London. Knox recently approved a number of print exclusives to the very U.K. tabloids her family blamed for sensationalizing her case at the outset. She then did her own exclusive video interview in Seattle to the same Italian columnist. Knox will not travel to Italy for the appeal, while Sollecito is largely expected to attend. Family members of the victim, Meredith Kercher, are also expected to be in attendance.


THE FREELANCE DESK
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I am getting sick of the Sollecitos and Knox/Mellases constant complaints how they are financially ruined as if they were the only ones who had to pay lawyer fees and consultants.

The Kerchers did not receive plane tickets and accomodation in exchange for exclusive interviews. They could not always afford to be present in court and are now being painted by supporters of Knox as a family who is only after money and does not care about justice.

This situation is absurd.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial 1h

Quote:
2 hours and 30 mins left until our spreecast with @BethKaras and Douglas Preston. Don't miss it!! http://wildabouttrial.com/one_off/beth- ... anda-knox/


Actually, it's only 1 hour and 10 minutes left, but I doubt many of us would want to listen to Preston as he trots out his usual drivel.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Don't worry, their day in the sun is almost over. It's just been a long day, that's all.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I watched part of the Amanda Knox interview and I could not make it to the end cause of her constant short laughs in between sentences while dismissing the murder charges as illogical.

Nothing Amanda Knox has said in the past six years ever made sense, but here she sits pointing the finger to others.

She reminds me of Ted Bundy. Defending the impossible despite all the evidence. Arguing every one else is corrupt and lying.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Andrea Vogt also mentions Aviello fessing up to being offered a bribe Knox Appeal Update; The Murder Of Meredith Kercher Wiki TMOMK and the Florence Appeal Fact Sheet Florence Appeal fact Sheet put together by McCall and his group of volunteers. Congratulations to everyone, can hardly wait for Sept. 30th!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Just saw that 'thoughful' has translated an interview with Francesco Sollecito from yesterday evening (RAI UNO, La Vita in Diretta, as Clander tells us).


Post by thoughtful » 17 Sep 2013, 20:35

Brief summary of [Francesco] Sollecito's 15-minute interview (it looks like a dialogue, but it isn't verbatim, just the gist).

I=Interviewer
DS=Doctor Sollecito

------

I : I have one last question. You have said in the past that you don’t want to appear in public and talk about Raffaele any more. Why did you accept our invitation ?

DS : Obviously, because I thought there would be a different outcome from the Supreme Court decision. [Looks pained] I thought it would be the end. But since instead the Supreme Court decided to reopen the case, I made myself do this, because I think it’s a right thing to do to inform public opinion of the truth of this terrible story.


------

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=142628#p142628


Yet he didn't show up in court the next morning to hear the decision. I wonder what he's trying to accomplish now. Does it looks like he's resigned to the inevitable? No mention of Bongiorno, and it seems like he knows Raffaele will be doing a bunk.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial 1h

Quote:
2 hours and 30 mins left until our spreecast with @BethKaras and Douglas Preston. Don't miss it!! http://wildabouttrial.com/one_off/beth- ... anda-knox/


Actually, it's only 1 hour and 10 minutes left, but I doubt many of us would want to listen to Preston as he trots out his usual drivel.


Only caught the sign-off but the host seemed pretty enthusiastic about him. There was mention of Trial By Fury, so can infer what some or all of the discussion was about.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

There's a clip here.

- Doug Preston "looked into it" and knows AK is being framed.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks Iodine. Here's a 1min 24sec video clip

Best of Douglas Preston on The Amanda Knox Case p-(((

WILD ABOUT TRIAL SPEECHCAST
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

"Wait, I need to stop you right there -- WHAT information? Why do you let them twist in the wind like this when you can end it all so easily and bring down this prosecutor?"

- Said no one.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:58 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
Image of Costa Concordia shipwreck being raised (today).


Thanks ttrroonniicc. Very impressive.

Costa Concordia salvage operation: Time-lapse footage



(((OT)))

Wrecked cruise ship Costa Concordia raised off Italian rocks

GIGLIO, Italy (Reuters) - The Costa Concordia was pulled upright off the Italian island of Giglio on Tuesday, in a tense salvage operation that revealed the damage to a once gleaming cruise liner that had lain on its side for 20 months after capsizing, killing 32 people.
...
In a 19-hour operation that ended at 4 a.m. (0200 GMT), the 114,500-ton ship was hauled up by huge jacks and cables and lowered onto underwater platforms drilled into the sea bed.


YAHOO NEWS
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:42 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

New photos of Knox on Matthew Williams' blog:

Amanda Knox for Oggi Magazine via Getty Images

http://matthewphoto.blogspot.ca/

http://instagram.com/p/eYTLahxPRc/

Amanda Knox on the cover of the latest issue of Oggi

Amanda: "Ho ancora paura" (I'm still afraid)

Attachment:
OGGI cover 18 September 2013-1.jpg


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

They airbrushed the bags out from under her eyes to present her like a Hollywood actress, in this the Oggi screwloose types are as bad as the Seattle racists.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

And I'm certain engaging with OGGI is going to convince the whole world, what I'm saying is this is entirely meaningless.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox the murder suspect is losing popularity points
Seattle : WA : USA | Sep 16, 2013 at 8:15 PM PDT
By Chelsea Hoffman



ALL VOICES

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
I watched part of the Amanda Knox interview and I could not make it to the end cause of her constant short laughs in between sentences while dismissing the murder charges as illogical.

Nothing Amanda Knox has said in the past six years ever made sense, but here she sits pointing the finger to others.

She reminds me of Ted Bundy. Defending the impossible despite all the evidence. Arguing every one else is corrupt and lying.


I'm allergic to those, too. And I'm sure Patrick Lumumba could see right through her, but there is one thing he got wrong: She is not a good actress. Not these days, anyway.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

What's the betting Amanda Knox appears on ITV's Daybreak with a lawyer on hand? I reckon she may demand the right to do so since they permitted Sollecito to come on with a lawyer. The question is, will Daybreak introduce them as who they really are this time, rather then as some sort of independent expert as they did with Sollecito's lawyer?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I'll tell you all what's going to happen over the next few months. We are going to be subjected to the surreal spectacle of the World Mainstream Media using Amanda Knox as a TV pundit for her own appeal!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:46 pm   Post subject: "THE DNA GUY" STRIKES AGAIN   

Always very interesting to read examples of the Hive Mind: Chris Halkides

Quote:
Re: Reconstructing the Labwork
Post by RoseMontague » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:25 pm

diocletian wrote:
Wow:

Contamination within a run was apparent at default wash settings of the ABI Prism 3700 instrument and was a result of sample-to-sample contamination via the robotic loading needles. This contamination was eliminated through increasing these wash parameters between 4- and 6-fold.

With increased use of the instrument a rare event termed “load bar” contaminationwas identified. This exhibited itself as sample mixtures with sample profiles originating from directly adjacent wells within the sample injection bar on the ABI 3700 sequencer (Fig. 10). It is thought to be a result of “leakage” on the sample loading bar from well to well via capillary action due to inefficient load bar drying steps, resulting in sample mixing between specific wells on the loading bar. This contamination is an ongoing problem with the ABI 3700 instrument and contamination assays should be performed on the instrument on a regular basis to monitor this.

http://cstl.nist.gov/strbase/validation ... 203700.pdf


Somebody should send this to whoever the defense DNA experts are this time around. Bruce, can you pass this along please.


Re: Reconstructing the Labwork
Post by Chris_Halkides » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:48 am
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The more I think about it, the more I do not like the concentration step that Stefanoni did with respect to the knife profile, which I believe she did with a Speed Vac. The centrifuge tubes would have to be open to the atmosphere, and when the vacuum is released, the DNA-containing aerosols cold be introduced unless special precautions were taken. I would also worry about DNA left in the Speed Vac itself from previous samples.


Haven't Halkides and Hampikian,"The DNA Guys", not done enough damage to the defense already? Now that the courts know how much of the C&V Report was written by Americans who wouldn't show up in court to defend their hypotheses? ff)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox says she wants to visit the grave of Meredith Kercher with the murder victim’s parents

* Cleared Knox said an 'abyss of pain' separates her from Meredith's family
* She says she hopes one day she can visit Meredith's grave with them
* Kercher family still think Knox is guilty, she says, which 'hurts a great deal'
* She rejected calls for her to fly to Florence on September 30 for retrial
* Said she could not risk exposing herself to another 'injustice' by returning

By Nick Pisa In Perugia

PUBLISHED: 11:24, 18 September 2013 | UPDATED: 13:22, 18 September 2013



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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Or, in other words, "A rare event", is proof of contamination, LOL. Haven't the Sollecito/Knox lawyers got fed up with the antics of the American 'experts' yet?
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The problem with Chris Halkides's claims is that he continues to ignore that the SAL was filed with the court and further that it is public. If he looked at that document his already absurd reasoning would go be impossible so he pretends like the records don't exist. He is just dishonest.

It is best to just ignore Chris Halkides. Most of the time he doesn't understand the science and occasionally when he does he just lies about it.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
What's the betting Amanda Knox appears on ITV's Daybreak with a lawyer on hand? I reckon she may demand the right to do so since they permitted Sollecito to come on with a lawyer. The question is, will Daybreak introduce them as who they really are this time, rather then as some sort of independent expert as they did with Sollecito's lawyer?


If this is indeed live, if ITV is willing to pay for a second transatlantic flight and if Ted Simon feels like taking a trip to London, maybe him? Or Mom again? I don't know. Hard to imagine she'll appear there all by herself. It is rather surreal.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I received an e-mail that Bruce is all in a tizzy and wants to dig up some of my posting history. He is specifically interested in the post where Knox and "being an angry lesbian" was mentioned. I figured I'd help him out.

McCall wrote:
jape wrote:
Amanda is certainly a good looking woman but there is something rather manly about her at times and overall she seems rather gauche and uncomfortable in her own skin.

A frustrated lesbian is a dangerous animal. Maybe this is the big secret - the story that will never be told - at the heart of this tragic story. dm-)

A narcisstic sexy looking covert lesbian with a tortured psyche. I believe that she outed herself to Raffaele and was looking forward to doing the same with the object of her desire, Meredith. I say desire but dominance was part of it because her ego had taken a bashing. I believe that she felt good about outing herself and exceptionally free about it inside herself, after the number of setbacks she had suffered. Meredith's money had been taken earlier in the day, as a prank, to break the attractive Brit's reserve. She roped in the other two to help steady her nerve and to cower Meredith if need be. Meredith,of course would have none of it. Fury was the result of a rejection which turned physical.

It's no good psychologists examining Amanda's public performances, in court, on TV. That's all an act. What they should look at is the evidence available of her operating in a natural social setting, in a setting when the subject is free of constraints. That happened when Amanda went to Perugia. And we have the evidence for what she was like then.


I don't think it is necessary to consider sexual orientation. The desire to be accepted even in a platonic sense is a strong force. Nobody liked Knox and she was aware of it.

I think focusing on Knox is a mistake. I think Raffaele is much more the cause of this than the other two, Knox was the connection to Meredith but Raffaele is the psycho. Focusing on Knox and her sexual behavior I feel was a prosecution mistake. The focus should have been on Raffaele.


Scandalous.

If they need any additional quotes it is probably easier to just contact me directly at mccall@themurderofmeredithkercher.com as I can likely find them much faster than they can and we don't need to clog up the public forums with this nastiness.

I will say that unlike the Groupies you won't find anything I have posted that is damaging because unlike the majority of the Groupies I'm not a racist or homophobe. I'm also not crazy or stupid so while you may disagree with the content of my posts you'll find nothing offensive or incorrect.

I do take offence to referring to the wiki as a Guilter site. The wiki is a factual account of the evidence and it just happens that a factual account leads to the conclusion that they are guilty. Every claim is sourced. If you feel there are errors you are free to submit correction requests to the e-mail specifically established for that purpose. There is a link of the main page as well as what documentation is required to support a correction. Any mistakes will be fixed as long as they can be supported with valid documentation.

After my comments on Ergon engaging them previously I feel somewhat hypocritical so this should be my only post on the subject. I just really wanted to bring the quote they were looking for to the front so that they don't need to waste too much time looking for it.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
What's the betting Amanda Knox appears on ITV's Daybreak with a lawyer on hand? I reckon she may demand the right to do so since they permitted Sollecito to come on with a lawyer. The question is, will Daybreak introduce them as who they really are this time, rather then as some sort of independent expert as they did with Sollecito's lawyer?


If this is indeed live, if ITV is willing to pay for a second transatlantic flight and if Ted Simon feels like taking a trip to London, maybe him? Or Mom again? I don't know. Hard to imagine she'll appear there all by herself. It is rather surreal.


I don't believe Ted Simon is representing Knox. I read recently that he is now referring to himself as representing Knox in the past tense. He used the phrase "formerly represented" which clearly means he is not currently doing so.

Likely they parted ways after giving the Knox family an honest legal opinion on extradition. The Knoxs don't seem like they would handle that well. They will be quite disappointed when the next lawyer they hire gives the same opinion.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
What's the betting Amanda Knox appears on ITV's Daybreak with a lawyer on hand? I reckon she may demand the right to do so since they permitted Sollecito to come on with a lawyer. The question is, will Daybreak introduce them as who they really are this time, rather then as some sort of independent expert as they did with Sollecito's lawyer?


If this is indeed live, if ITV is willing to pay for a second transatlantic flight and if Ted Simon feels like taking a trip to London, maybe him? Or Mom again? I don't know. Hard to imagine she'll appear there all by herself. It is rather surreal.


I don't believe Ted Simon is representing Knox. I read recently that he is now referring to himself as representing Knox in the past tense. He used the phrase "formerly represented" which clearly means he is not currently doing so.

Likely they parted ways after giving the Knox family an honest legal opinion on extradition. The Knoxs don't seem like they would handle that well. They will be quite disappointed when the next lawyer they hire gives the same opinion.



It'll probably be Edda then, won't it?

Since Knox has decided to follow in Sollecito's footsteps, I'm wondering if she's planning on appearing on HardTalk too.

I can't see her coming all the way to the UK just to do the one interview.

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Offline Sparkles


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just sat through the wild about trial Beth karas interview with Doug Preston. My god! What a total and utter F@ckw!t.

the man hates mignini with a passion. The glee that shows almost a seems like he's gloating. Does not understand double jeapardy and convinced that Amanda is a angel and that she was framed. Glosses over DNA evidence, states more that once no dna evidence for amanda, loves Hellman thinks Mignini is really unpopular in Italy dispite being promoted and the appeal is being done in florence in order that amanda can win and Italy save face.

have I caught everything. No almost forgot. He's afraid to go back to Italy but went there last year before Migninis promotion. What an eejit.....

the man is an embarrassment.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
What's the betting Amanda Knox appears on ITV's Daybreak with a lawyer on hand? I reckon she may demand the right to do so since they permitted Sollecito to come on with a lawyer. The question is, will Daybreak introduce them as who they really are this time, rather then as some sort of independent expert as they did with Sollecito's lawyer?


If this is indeed live, if ITV is willing to pay for a second transatlantic flight and if Ted Simon feels like taking a trip to London, maybe him? Or Mom again? I don't know. Hard to imagine she'll appear there all by herself. It is rather surreal.


I don't believe Ted Simon is representing Knox. I read recently that he is now referring to himself as representing Knox in the past tense. He used the phrase "formerly represented" which clearly means he is not currently doing so.

Likely they parted ways after giving the Knox family an honest legal opinion on extradition. The Knoxs don't seem like they would handle that well. They will be quite disappointed when the next lawyer they hire gives the same opinion.


That's news to me. Interesting. The ship is clearly sinking...
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I clicked on a link from here, and there she was again, in a photo, yet her face is now fixed in that pose, with the protruding lips the brows that are synchronised with said lips, with her act where she does the eyes, the lips and the brow while prentending everyone else is whacky, as though that is going to convince everyone she is innocent.

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Offline Diocletian


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
The problem with Chris Halkides's claims is that he continues to ignore that the SAL was filed with the court and further that it is public. If he looked at that document his already absurd reasoning would go be impossible so he pretends like the records don't exist. He is just dishonest.

It is best to just ignore Chris Halkides. Most of the time he doesn't understand the science and occasionally when he does he just lies about it.


Yes, McCall, you are correct that the SAL document was produced. However, it is not very useful. The SAL logs generally track the labwork up to the point of extraction. The SAL is thus useful for identifying sample numbers and corresponding Rep. numbers, some information about blood testing, and extraction plate/well locations.

It is important to note, though, that the SAL is not an actual record of any testing—it is just a summary. Thus, somewhere there must be underlying blood testing records, and there are extraction records that were generated by the extraction machine. Neither of these categories of documents have been produced.

Moreover, the SAL documents contain no information whatsoever about amplification, purification, concentration and/or electrophoresis. In short, while the SAL is a disclosure of some information in summary form, it is not at all a substitute for disclosure of the lab records.

I have identified a large number of records that have been suppressed. In particular, if your sources can get any of these suppressed records, I would love it if you would post them on your wiki: (i) Real Time PCR records for run nos. 545 to 548, which would include the amplification records for 36b, (ii) records of concentration/purification processes, (iii) supressed electropherograms (e.g., nos. 600-604, 617, 622, 626, 628, 631, 685-86, 688-89, 693-94, 758-60, 762-69, 939, 944, 948, and 952), and of course (iv) EDFs.

I believe that criminal defendants are entitled to disclosure. Cheers.


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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
I'll tell you all what's going to happen over the next few months. We are going to be subjected to the surreal spectacle of the World Mainstream Media using Amanda Knox as a TV pundit for her own appeal!


All the worse for her IMO. In fact she is about the only one believing the crapfest of misinformation.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Diocletian wrote:
McCall wrote:
The problem with Chris Halkides's claims is that he continues to ignore that the SAL was filed with the court and further that it is public. If he looked at that document his already absurd reasoning would go be impossible so he pretends like the records don't exist. He is just dishonest.

It is best to just ignore Chris Halkides. Most of the time he doesn't understand the science and occasionally when he does he just lies about it.


Yes, McCall, you are correct that the SAL document was produced. However, it is not very useful. The SAL logs generally track the labwork up to the point of extraction. The SAL is thus useful for identifying sample numbers and corresponding Rep. numbers, some information about blood testing, and extraction plate/well locations.

It is important to note, though, that the SAL is not an actual record of any testing—it is just a summary. Thus, somewhere there must be underlying blood testing records, and there are extraction records that were generated by the extraction machine. Neither of these categories of documents have been produced.

Moreover, the SAL documents contain no information whatsoever about amplification, purification, concentration and/or electrophoresis. In short, while the SAL is a disclosure of some information in summary form, it is not at all a substitute for disclosure of the lab records.

I have identified a large number of records that have been suppressed. In particular, if your sources can get any of these suppressed records, I would love it if you would post them on your wiki: (i) Real Time PCR records for run nos. 545 to 548, which would include the amplification records for 36b, (ii) records of concentration/purification processes, (iii) supressed electropherograms (e.g., nos. 600-604, 617, 622, 626, 628, 631, 685-86, 688-89, 693-94, 758-60, 762-69, 939, 944, 948, and 952), and of course (iv) EDFs.

I believe that criminal defendants are entitled to disclosure. Cheers.


In addition to the SAL we also have Vecchiotti's testimony to rely on. The issue of testing was discussed in court and Vecchiotti ruled out the possibility of contamination in her testimony. So unless you claim is that Vecchiotti relied upon factually incorrect information your post is again just an attempt to mislead.

With respect to the documents being suppressed unless you are one of the defence lawyers you can't make any such claims. There is no obligation to disclose to you. The defence lawyers are the only people who can object about the disclosure and they have not. Quite the contrary the final word on disclosure both from the defence and from C&V is that they had everything they needed.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks McCall... that same old talking point. Attempt to mislead is right.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
Diocletian wrote:
McCall wrote:
The problem with Chris Halkides's claims is that he continues to ignore that the SAL was filed with the court and further that it is public. If he looked at that document his already absurd reasoning would go be impossible so he pretends like the records don't exist. He is just dishonest.

It is best to just ignore Chris Halkides. Most of the time he doesn't understand the science and occasionally when he does he just lies about it.


Yes, McCall, you are correct that the SAL document was produced. However, it is not very useful. The SAL logs generally track the labwork up to the point of extraction. The SAL is thus useful for identifying sample numbers and corresponding Rep. numbers, some information about blood testing, and extraction plate/well locations.

It is important to note, though, that the SAL is not an actual record of any testing—it is just a summary. Thus, somewhere there must be underlying blood testing records, and there are extraction records that were generated by the extraction machine. Neither of these categories of documents have been produced.

Moreover, the SAL documents contain no information whatsoever about amplification, purification, concentration and/or electrophoresis. In short, while the SAL is a disclosure of some information in summary form, it is not at all a substitute for disclosure of the lab records.

I have identified a large number of records that have been suppressed. In particular, if your sources can get any of these suppressed records, I would love it if you would post them on your wiki: (i) Real Time PCR records for run nos. 545 to 548, which would include the amplification records for 36b, (ii) records of concentration/purification processes, (iii) supressed electropherograms (e.g., nos. 600-604, 617, 622, 626, 628, 631, 685-86, 688-89, 693-94, 758-60, 762-69, 939, 944, 948, and 952), and of course (iv) EDFs.

I believe that criminal defendants are entitled to disclosure. Cheers.


In addition to the SAL we also have Vecchiotti's testimony to rely on. The issue of testing was discussed in court and Vecchiotti ruled out the possibility of contamination in her testimony. So unless you claim is that Vecchiotti relied upon factually incorrect information your post is again just an attempt to mislead.

With respect to the documents being suppressed unless you are one of the defence lawyers you can't make any such claims. There is no obligation to disclose to you. The defence lawyers are the only people who can object about the disclosure and they have not. Quite the contrary the final word on disclosure both from the defence and from C&V is that they had everything they needed.



It's all irrelevant anyway, as this is the Italian system, not the American system. In the American system, experts for the defence are not permitted to be present for evidence testing and as such, there may be an argument for all sorts of testing records to be handed over to the defence. In the Italian system and in this specific case, experts for the defence were present for the tests and the generation of the records. THAT is full disclosure. Therefore, the FOAKer whinging on this matter is without merit.

Note to Diocletian: If you wish to pursue this matter here, please wait until Tuesday in line with the Tuesday Rule.

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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Excellent point Michael.

I completely forgot that defence had experts present for the testing (well Sollecito did at least and Knox had the opportunity but failed to avail herself of it) so what exactly would they need disclosed? They were there when it all happened.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Has anybody seen this? It sort of fits into the current discussion:

DNA and the law in Italy: the experience of “the Perugia case”
By Carla Vecchiotti* and Silvia Zoppis

FRONTIERS OF GENETICS

Reviewed by David Balding, by the way.

Keywords: genetic analyses, DNA testing, forensic caseworks, reliability, interpretation

Citation: Vecchiotti C and Zoppis S (2013) DNA and the law in Italy: the experience of “the Perugia case”. Front. Genet. 4:177. doi: 10.3389/fgene.2013.00177

Received: 12 July 2013; Accepted: 23 August 2013;
Published online: 12 September 2013.

Edited by:
Alex Biedermann, University of Lausanne, Switzerland

Reviewed by:
Joelle Vuille, University of California, Irvine, USA
David Balding, University College London, UK
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

From what I see the information being cited is like 3 or 4 years old. International protocals... where have we heard that before? The only newer cite (2012) is in Italian.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

A tweet from Gianluigi Nuzzi, producer of Quarto Grado:

Gianluigi Nuzzi@ GianluigiNuzzi 8m

Quote:
Friday evening Amanda Knox @ QuartoGrado: I Meredith and Raffaele Sollecito at 21:10 on Rete4 pic.twitter.com/Gj2yvP59he


Pic of Amanda with her faithful friend MadPax. ;)

https://twitter.com/GianluigiNuzzi/status/380393878966108160/photo/1
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Has anybody seen this? It sort of fits into the current discussion:

DNA and the law in Italy: the experience of “the Perugia case”
By Carla Vecchiotti* and Silvia Zoppis

FRONTIERS OF GENETICS

Reviewed by David Balding, by the way.

Keywords: genetic analyses, DNA testing, forensic caseworks, reliability, interpretation

Citation: Vecchiotti C and Zoppis S (2013) DNA and the law in Italy: the experience of “the Perugia case”. Front. Genet. 4:177. doi: 10.3389/fgene.2013.00177

Received: 12 July 2013; Accepted: 23 August 2013;
Published online: 12 September 2013.

Edited by:
Alex Biedermann, University of Lausanne, Switzerland

Reviewed by:
Joelle Vuille, University of California, Irvine, USA
David Balding, University College London, UK


I will read it when I have the time but just based on the sources cited it is not worth reading.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

"Frontiers is a community-oriented open-access academic publisher and research network."

It's Ground Report for scientists.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Has anybody seen this? It sort of fits into the current discussion:

DNA and the law in Italy: the experience of “the Perugia case”
By Carla Vecchiotti* and Silvia Zoppis

FRONTIERS OF GENETICS

Reviewed by David Balding, by the way.

Keywords: genetic analyses, DNA testing, forensic caseworks, reliability, interpretation

Citation: Vecchiotti C and Zoppis S (2013) DNA and the law in Italy: the experience of “the Perugia case”. Front. Genet. 4:177. doi: 10.3389/fgene.2013.00177

Received: 12 July 2013; Accepted: 23 August 2013;
Published online: 12 September 2013.

Edited by:
Alex Biedermann, University of Lausanne, Switzerland

Reviewed by:
Joelle Vuille, University of California, Irvine, USA
David Balding, University College London, UK


I will read it when I have the time but just based on the sources cited it is not worth reading.


Hi McCall,

I haven't read it yet myself, only skimmed through it. I believe Vecchiotti, like her chum and adviser, a certain Boise State University scientist, uses her so-called 'expertise' in this murder case to further her own career. Or, perhaps, she goes on the defensive, to forestall criticism from the Appeal court in Florence.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
The problem with Chris Halkides's claims is that he continues to ignore that the SAL was filed with the court and further that it is public. If he looked at that document his already absurd reasoning would go be impossible so he pretends like the records don't exist. He is just dishonest.

It is best to just ignore Chris Halkides. Most of the time he doesn't understand the science and occasionally when he does he just lies about it.


Nevertheless, as you just found out, McCall, even if you ignore them, they 'investigate' you just the same if you make a wave of any kind about the case. As soon as Andrea Vogt mentions the Meredith Kercher Wiki you and your volunteer editors started, there's ol' Bruce on your trail. She gave a great recommendation, BTW.

Some people won't engage with them, it's too negative, it's beneath our intellectual loftiness to engage with, it's like drowning in quicksand, we kick people to the curb for past or present views. I engage with them because that's how I learn, by diving in the garbage dumpster of their minds. As any detective might tell you, the real clues come when you rummage through people's garbage. With all respect to those who'd rather not :)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I think the dear fellow ought to read the Supreme Court translation, that is better for he, for where else would he be, its most clear to me, that the court on high, has exlpained the reasons why... and I must say, I do not get any feeling at all that anyone other than the Seattle Insanity Factory was unable to see that nobody had anything at all to hide except for Raffaele Crusoe and Amanda the Hun.

What jolly fun they do have, I tell ya people I do often get the impressioni they see it as some kind of a game, them knowing but the others not, at least not the actual details, I think they'd just love to explain what really happened.

I know of a truth serum but how to administer it to monkeys, I know not.


All this shit about them in the UK, the reason I haven't even said anything is because man, they do piss me off, I know a lovely pension in Brixton for Knox, she'd love it there, especially when they find out who she is, fuck... the audacity.
Can't we organise a riot?

I'm not sure she will go there, they're keen to have her as they are already like beggars, anything to get viewers, just like in the states, I reckon they may go there, but in the end I don't care as these people, they know no shame and I'm not about to get a stroke getting uptight about them, no friends, lets love and laugh in Meredith's spirit, the spirit of her family, they aren't miserable people, that's why they are so beautifully endearing, Ahimsa is the only way. Let's defeat them with spirit and mind, not mirror them in any way with violence, they will reap what they have sown. All those with eyes say aye. All those with ears, say here here, or was it ear ear, again?

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
From what I see the information being cited is like 3 or 4 years old. International protocals... where have we heard that before? The only newer cite (2012) is in Italian.


Hi dg, :)

I agree, ain't nothing new, I've heard it all before (just finished reading Carla's 'paper'.) Same old, same old - contamination is to blame.

Carla Vecchotti wrote:
The genetic profile thus derived from a mixture of unidentified biological substances, whose larger component corresponded to the profile of the victim and whose smaller components suggest the contribution of several male sources. Defendant Raffaele Sollecito showed a profile that was compatible with the profiling results for the trace found on the bra clasp. However, considering the particular circumstances under which the item was recovered and collected, it could not be ruled out that the results obtained from the analysis of the bra clasp derived from environmental contamination and/or contamination in some phase of the collection and/or handling of the item.


Carla Vecchiotti wrote:
The question of how DNA corresponding to the suspect was transferred onto an item must therefore be assessed by the judge and not by the scientist, whose role is limited to presenting the various ways in which transfer can happen and the strength of support for each of the various scenarios (Gill and Buckleton, 2010).


And did they (C&V) do that, I mean, present various scenarios of contamination in their report? I can't recall.

Strong words from Carla:

Carla Vecchiotti wrote:
If a single doubt remains, even the slightest, the defendant must be acquitted. Judges who convict in the absence of strong, unambiguous and consistent evidence violate the law.


FRONTIERS OF GENETICS
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Here's where I play "what if I had been on the jury panel (citizen judges) of the Massei Court?" Would I convict? Answer, even if there had indeed "been no trace of Amanda or Raffaele" in the room, if there was no DNA, no double DNA knife, I would still convict, sorry. Their alibis, the staged break in, Curatolo's sighting, Quintavalle's, the false accusation, Guilty. DNA was only one piece of evidence, much as those with magical DNA machines/ books to sell might argue otherwise.

But wouldn't be funny, if the final nail would be the testing of trace "I" on the knife?
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
McCall wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Has anybody seen this? It sort of fits into the current discussion:

DNA and the law in Italy: the experience of “the Perugia case”
By Carla Vecchiotti* and Silvia Zoppis

FRONTIERS OF GENETICS

Reviewed by David Balding, by the way.

Keywords: genetic analyses, DNA testing, forensic caseworks, reliability, interpretation

Citation: Vecchiotti C and Zoppis S (2013) DNA and the law in Italy: the experience of “the Perugia case”. Front. Genet. 4:177. doi: 10.3389/fgene.2013.00177

Received: 12 July 2013; Accepted: 23 August 2013;
Published online: 12 September 2013.

Edited by:
Alex Biedermann, University of Lausanne, Switzerland

Reviewed by:
Joelle Vuille, University of California, Irvine, USA
David Balding, University College London, UK


I will read it when I have the time but just based on the sources cited it is not worth reading.


Hi McCall,

I haven't read it yet myself, only skimmed through it. I believe Vecchiotti, like her chum and adviser, a certain Boise State University scientist, uses her so-called 'expertise' in this murder case to further her own career. Or, perhaps, she goes on the defensive, to forestall criticism from the Appeal court in Florence.


I think you are right with your suspicion that Carla Vecchiotti is trying to further her career. She claims that the "Perugia case" has made people aware of the limitations of forensic testing and of course she takes the credit for it.


The woman who carelessly contaminated evidence herself by reusing boxes for the storage of case items, claims the police work at the crime scene was shoddy enough to discard everything collected by them. She also slams the lab work and finishes her article with the caution that even though Raffaele Sollecito's DNA was found on the bra clasp, we should not jump to conclusions.

I am not sure what Balding "reviewed" exactly, because some of the claims Vecchiotti makes in her article contradict what he says.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Balding's findings are really bad for people who believe in their innocence.

If Vecchiotti is attempting self-promotion her efforts are very misguided if she wants to remain an academic. If he goal is to transition to popular media commentator on scientific matters then possibly this is a good idea. If her goal is to advance as a scientist then she is ensuring that never happens. That short web posting is the kind of thing that costs you credibility and respect with other scientists.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
Balding's findings are really bad for people who believe in their innocence.

If Vecchiotti is attempting self-promotion her efforts are very misguided if she wants to remain an academic. If he goal is to transition to popular media commentator on scientific matters then possibly this is a good idea. If her goal is to advance as a scientist then she is ensuring that never happens. That short web posting is the kind of thing that costs you credibility and respect with other scientists.


For me, Carla Vecchiotti is like Ted Simon: Notoriety and "fame" over solid results.

Some time ago I saw a show with Ted Simon as a guest and they introduced him as a famous and successful lawyer. They gave a few names of his clients to remind the viewers on what cases he had worked - the most famous I guess. When I looked them up it turned out his defence had failed in all of them. So the "success" is apparently measured in notoriety only.

Given the track record of Carla Vecchiotti, she is headed in the same direction in my opinion.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

And what a great loss to science that would be!!!

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Sparkles wrote:
Just sat through the wild about trial Beth karas interview with Doug Preston. My god! What a total and utter F@ckw!t.

the man hates mignini with a passion. The glee that shows almost a seems like he's gloating. Does not understand double jeapardy and convinced that Amanda is a angel and that she was framed. Glosses over DNA evidence, states more that once no dna evidence for amanda, loves Hellman thinks Mignini is really unpopular in Italy dispite being promoted and the appeal is being done in florence in order that amanda can win and Italy save face.

have I caught everything. No almost forgot. He's afraid to go back to Italy but went there last year before Migninis promotion. What an eejit.....

the man is an embarrassment.


Preston's an absolute joke. He's persisting just for the sake of his pride now but he doesn't know when to quit and cut his losses so he just comes over as pathetic. The man's a drama queen, always has been. Maybe that's a requirement for writing fiction...or bad fiction at least. He should of just stuck to writing fiction...but then, he never really stopped, did he? ;)

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
I wish I could describe that bit better Nap, where she makes those facial gestures and looks in the way someone would when referring to some mad people while taking a step backwards, I mean god it's so transparent, she always does it in all of those interviews, I bet you could describe it way better than I can.

We ought to piece together all of those bits, with her doing her they're all mad face, eyesbrows going up lips curling like a teacher saying humour them humour them (they cannot help it, we are above them)

And then saying they've got it all wrong, the very thing the court has said about the importance of how everything fits together and she tried to objectify it like anyone who really understands would accept that. You know her making out this apparent lack of traces in the room is everything, when the court has clearly specified that each part does fit together, they've substatiated/underpinned their reasoning in a most logical manner, and it makes complete sense.


I spent some time today thinking about what it is that specifically bothers me when I see her interviews. Aside from the fact that I believe that she is guilty and that most of her statements are false. It simply appears to me that she never talks, never really has a conversation. I mean, seriously, who talks like she does? She always sounds to me like she is giving a speech, and it comes off hollow. I can't explain it any better.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Knox will be on the Today Show on Friday:

Friday, September 20

(7-9 a.m.): Amanda Knox speaks out about her retrial.

NBC SCOOP
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Personally, I don't see the need for any sound test. There may have been an argument for some sort of test to confirm things were there only one witness, but there are three witnesses, two of which heard a scream and two of which heard people running. Moreover, how reliable could any such test be? For example, to make it worth anything, they would have to replicate all the different variables from that night...including such things as atmospherics (such as humidity, sound will travel differently in damp or humid air v dry air, as it will also travel differently in colder v warm air, so temperature is also important, as would wind direction and speed also make a difference, just for some examples). I don't see how they could recreate all that and it would only create more things to argue over then questions it would resolve. In other words, it would simply muddy the waters as far as I can see.

That in mind, I can see absolutely why the defence would be arguing for such a test. The delay to the process it would cause would also be a bonus, for them.

To give a small overview about who were the 'scream witnesses'. Both Guede and Capezzali were very specific about the scream being not a normal scream. It makes sense the scream would come from Meredith's bedroom and Guede confirmed this.

Monacchia heard yelling in Italian between a man and woman (Meredith and Guede/Sollecito?) followed by a scream fitting the time period Capezzali had indicated. Knox claimed she had to cover her ears because Meredith screamed. This also indicates that Meredith screamed very loud.

That is no less than 4 'scream witnesses'. How many more do you need to know that there was a loud scream to be heard that night? The audio test will never be approved simply because there is no doubt a scream was heard. Then there is the witness Dramis who heard running which also fits with the testimony by Capezzali.
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=7189205&page=1

The only interesting thing I can think of is that an audio test might show which way Meredith was likely facing when she screamed. Most likely she faced the door, or was laying on her back. Either way she was facing her attackers. I don't think she would be facing away from the door. With her bedroom door open, and maybe even the front door open the sound would easily travel outside towards Capezzali. See, I didn't even need an audio test. Just a bit of common sense :mrgreen:
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:02 am   Post subject: ACTUAL + SUBSTANTIAL, not mere POSSIBILITY + SLIGHTEST   

guermantes wrote:
...
Strong words from Carla:

Carla Vecchiotti wrote:
If a single doubt remains, even the slightest, the defendant must be acquitted.



So, now Carla thinks she's a law professor or a Supreme Court Justice?! LOL

Her job is to offer an opinion on the DNA evidence, not the BARD standard and how to apply it!

Indeed, had she gone to law school, she'd have been far too ashamed to publish that (erroneous and embarrassing) amateur legal opinion of hers (above in blue).

In Victor v. Nebraska (92-8894), 511 U.S. 1 (1994), the Supreme Court of the United States noted that:

"The beyond a reasonable doubt standard is itself probabilistic."

Accordingly, the Court endorsed a jury instruction on the nature of the BARD standard that reads as follows:

"..absolute or mathematical certainty is not required.

You may be convinced of the truth of a fact beyond a reasonable doubt and yet be fully aware that possibly you may be mistaken.

You may find an accused guilty upon the strong probabilities of the case...

A reasonable doubt is an actual and substantial doubt ... as distinguished from a doubt arising from mere possibility [(think C+V's "anything is possible" testimony)], from bare imagination, or from fanciful conjecture."






BTW, a little something for K & S to think about as Sept. 30 draws near because, IMHO, you shouldn't rely on hairdressers, furriers, horror writers or semi-coherent retirees when deciding whether or not to become a fugitive:
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

A sound test is almost impossible as Michael stated. I would mention the desperation but it is obvious.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

New post on TJMK:

Judge Nencini’s Guidelines Authorize Televising Of The Florence Appeal Live In Real Time

Acting with the speed and decisiveness for which the Florence Courts are renowned, Judge Nencini issues the court guidelines.

There will be regulated access to the courtroom and observers must be in court by 9:00 am. No phone contacts or tweets from the court to the outside world will be allowed.

And three fixed TV cameras will provide a broadcast-quality live feed from the court in Italian. This feed will be balanced against the needs of an orderly fair trial, and the feed could be turned off now and then.

A pressroom will be set up, as in Perugia, where most of the reporters preferred to sit so that they could use their computers and phones, and come and go when they wished.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Process Meredith Kercher, regulated access and live TV feed from the courtroom
18 September 2013

Access to the courtroom will be regulated by the police according to availability of seats. [Observers] Will not be allowed to stand during hearings for security reasons

Thus, whereas the world's eyes are focused on the court of Florence, it was decided to moderate the attitude of those who will be present at the hearings .

Regulated access to the courtroom, no telephone contact with the outside world, and in any case with phone ringing damped [phones muted?], TV is OK but only three fixed cameras, at most, that will provide live feed and then the footage will be distributed to broadcasters who request it.

The provisions of the President of the Second Chamber of the Court of Appeal Alessandro Nencini relate mainly to the work of journalists, "[it is] held that the freedom of the press and of good information, both written and provided by television cameras, must be balanced against the need to ensure a clear conduct of the trial." Access will be allowed to the courtroom until 9 o'clock in the days of hearings and regulated by the police in the hours after only according to availability of seats in the courtrrom, as no one will be allowed, for safety reasons, to stand during the hearing and move around in the courtroom.

In regards to video footage Nencini emphasizes the "indubitable social interest in the trial" and then "believes he can authorize" audio-visual coverage of the trial, but "can not permit a number of television crews to enter the courtroom." So the video footage will be entrusted to one or more cameras, but up to a maximum of three, to be placed in the courtroom, without operator, and "ban all the parties, their counsel, witnesses and experts who do not comply". The issuer [of the footage] must ensure that the filming will take care of its use "in favor of all broadcasters who request it." A press room will be set up at the side of the courtroom for the installation of monitors.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Same old things in a new interview: Knox repeats her accusations against Raffaele Argiro, praises Don Saulo, the prison chaplain, whines about her sadness, etc etc

Amanda Knox to "Fourth Degree": "If I were convicted, it would be a terrible existence"

Ten days before the new appeal process, scheduled for September 30 in Florence, Amanda Knox gave her first interview to an Italian TV and she did it to "Fourth Degree". The full interview - [published] early in the salient excerpts below - will be broadcast on Friday 20 September, in the early evening, on Retequattro.

"If I were convicted, it would be terrible and escape would not be a life" - says Amanda Knox - "and I do not want anyone pointing a finger at me as a murderer. But I do not fear the sentence: I know it's possible to get a fair verdict. I expect acquittal."

She condemned tabloid journalism, which has focused people's attention on irrelevant things that are not true. "Among the most damaging accusations that I received, I remember being called a 'dead cat', 'devilish', 'demon', 'witch'. I have been accused of having a spirit cursed and to be possessed, to manipulate people, to be fixated on sex and violence."

"This system against me - she continued - is created to justify the work of the jury. Otherwise, how can you explain that a normal girl brutally kills a friend?". "Back home I was hoping to be happier than I was. In my last months in jail I imagined that anxiety, sadness and anger would melt, I'd come back to a happy life, I would not be sad ... always."

"In these four years of persecution, I've only known this reality. Everything that I live is a reflection of what I learned in Italy," says Amanda Knox. "In Italy, I learned bad things to be afraid of and how not to trust people."

• Raffaele Sollecito
"Raffaele and I have lived a nightmare together. I trust him fully: he is kind, intelligent, genuine. A good person I can count on. I am grateful and I am proud of him, because he did the right thing." "Our relationship," says the young woman, "is not love, we are soldiers who have been through a war together. We are united and we can trust each other. But I am very sad for him: he is always alone."

• Meredith Kercher
"I always think of Meredith: I would like go to her grave with her family, but I will not invade an intimate place like that, if they do not welcome me. I want the Kerchers to understand that I am innocent."

• Prison
"The worst memory of life in prison is not a violent episode, I had the opportunity to call my family for 10 minutes, once a week. One day I called out to a guard to allow me to place a call, but nobody answered. I cried and cried for half an hour, banging my head against the bars and asking for my phone call, without having answers. I felt like a dog and nobody understood why I was so exhausted, tired and sad, because I was crying and screaming."

"In jail several times, a guard followed me into the bathroom and took me in his arms, but I managed to escape," says Knox. "Every other evening, I was called by the prison director, who asked to speak to me in his office, just him and me. The topics were sex and my body: he wondered what kind of underwear I wear, which positions I preferred, if I would have sex with someone like him. I did not know what to do. I have not complained because I thought, "Who would believe a person accused of murder and slander?".

• Don Saulo
"In prison, I prayed in the way Don Saulo taught me: "God, if you exist, please help me.'" "Don Saulo helped me and I miss him: every time I think I do not have the strength or the courage I wish I could talk to him, even if I'm not religious. He is a real person, who knows that there is suffering in life, and has figured out how to deal with it."

"I spent the whole day of the verdict of Appeal in the office of chaplain, playing [guitar] with him. On that occasion he gave me a necklace saying: 'This is a dove representing the Holy Spirit, my Church. Give yourself the freedom: the freedom that you have inside, whatever the verdict,'" says the young woman showing her necklace.


MEGAMODO
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Any one else having problems accessing True Justice? I note the number of hacks being attempted by members of Bruce's forum, but then, that's what the Amandii do.
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Offline chami


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:

Carla Vecchiotti wrote:
If a single doubt remains, even the slightest, the defendant must be acquitted. Judges who convict in the absence of strong, unambiguous and consistent evidence violate the law.


FRONTIERS OF GENETICS


I admit that I have not read the original paper.

If she is the author of the above quote, it is a sad day for science. I wonder how the reviewers recommended publication of the article. (I admit that I have often done the same, but only for some low profile journals!)

It will be nice if she takes a basic course in statistics. A lot of genetics depends (start with Mendel) on a good knowledge of statistics.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

"If I were convicted, it would be terrible existence" (VIDEO)

HUFFINGTON POST (in Italian)
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hey E, I am not able to get into TJMK either.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Same old things in a new interview: Knox repeats her accusations against Raffaele Argiro, praises Don Saulo, the prison chaplain, whines about her sadness, etc etc

Amanda Knox to "Fourth Degree": "If I were convicted, it would be a terrible existence"

Ten days before the new appeal process, scheduled for September 30 in Florence, Amanda Knox gave her first interview to an Italian TV and she did it to "Fourth Degree". The full interview - [published] early in the salient excerpts below - will be broadcast on Friday 20 September, in the early evening, on Retequattro.

"If I were convicted, it would be terrible and escape would not be a life" - says Amanda Knox - "and I do not want anyone pointing a finger at me as a murderer. But I do not fear the sentence: I know it's possible to get a fair verdict. I expect acquittal."

She condemned tabloid journalism, which has focused people's attention on irrelevant things that are not true. "Among the most damaging accusations that I received, I remember being called a 'dead cat', 'devilish', 'demon', 'witch'. I have been accused of having a spirit cursed and to be possessed, to manipulate people, to be fixated on sex and violence."

"This system against me - she continued - is created to justify the work of the jury. Otherwise, how can you explain that a normal girl brutally kills a friend?". "Back home I was hoping to be happier than I was. In my last months in jail I imagined that anxiety, sadness and anger would melt, I'd come back to a happy life, I would not be sad ... always."

"In these four years of persecution, I've only known this reality. Everything that I live is a reflection of what I learned in Italy," says Amanda Knox. "In Italy, I learned bad things to be afraid of and how not to trust people."

• Raffaele Sollecito
"Raffaele and I have lived a nightmare together. I trust him fully: he is kind, intelligent, genuine. A good person I can count on. I am grateful and I am proud of him, because he did the right thing." "Our relationship," says the young woman, "is not love, we are soldiers who have been through a war. We are united and we can trust each other. But I am very sad for him: he is always alone."

• Meredith Kercher
"I always think of Meredith: I would like go to her grave with her family, but I will not invade an intimate place like that, if they do not welcome me. I want the Kerchers to understand that I am innocent."

• Prison
"The worst memory of life in prison is not a violent episode, I had the opportunity to call my family for 10 minutes, once a week. One day I called out to a guard to allow me to place a call, but nobody answered. I cried and cried for half an hour, banging my head against the bars and asking for my phone call, without having answers. I felt like a dog and nobody understood why I was so exhausted, tired and sad, because I was crying and screaming."

"In jail several times, a guard followed me into the bathroom and took me in his arms, but I managed to escape," says Knox. "Every other evening, I was called by the prison director, who asked to speak to me in his office, just him and me. The topics were sex and my body: he wondered what kind of underwear I wear, which positions I preferred, if I would have sex with someone like him. I did not know what to do. I have not complained because I thought, "Who would believe a person accused of murder and slander?".

• Don Saulo
"In prison, I prayed in the way Don Saulo taught me: "God, if you exist, please help me.'" "Don Saulo helped me and I miss him: every time I think I do not have the strength or the courage I wish I could talk to him, even if I'm not religious. He is a real person, who knows that there is suffering in life, and has figured out how to deal with it."

"I spent the whole day of the verdict of Appeal in the office of chaplain, playing [guitar] with him. On that occasion he gave me a necklace saying: 'This is a dove representing the Holy Spirit, my Church. Give yourself the freedom: the freedom that you have inside, whatever the verdict,'" says the young woman showing her necklace.


MEGAMODO


Thank you as always for the updates, guermantes. She seriously seems to think she can somehow save her skin by giving interview after interview. Otherwise, why would she do this to herself (and the world, and most of all: the Kerchers)? She is old enough to say "no" to interview offers/her PR machine if she's really as miserable as she claims to be.
Or maybe she's enjoying it in a weird way, even though she's not good at it.
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Offline Ergon

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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

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Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
Hey E, I am not able to get into TJMK either.


As expected, the attacks begin. They're also trolling all your social networks, following Twitter and so on, then posting any personal photos they can find. All as a build up to Sept 30.
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