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XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 - SEPT 29, 13

Moderators: Nell, Ergon, Michael, Moderators


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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Bruce Fischer did a lot more than that. He entertained a thread for the purpose of outing people critical of Amanda Knox where he allowed personal information like employer, locations and photos to be posted. The sole purpose was to intimidate these people, so they would back off and stop being supporters for justice for Meredith.

The thread has been removed since there was some backlash and he received criticism even from his own members.

The gossip and outing threads are the most visited and commented on over at Injustice Anywhere.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

sherrel wrote:
Michael wrote:
sherrel wrote:
My two cents:

I've noticed that some have stated that they have had problems understanding what was said in the phone calls at certain times due to noise and such. I'm not an Italian speaker, but I'm wondering if anybody who is, might also have some experience with Adobe's Audition program (audio editor). There is a function within Audition where the audio can be displayed in a spectral format. In this mode it is sometimes possible to "erase" noise just as you would erase portions of an image in Photoshop.

Just a thought that someone might want to try it.



Welcome and congratulations on your first post!!! :)


Well, thank you. I've actually lurked here and over at .org for some time, but just recently decided to actually join.

ETA. . . You'll find that I'm not a very prolific poster. I really just want to keep abreast of what's going on, and maybe add a little something now and then.


Hello and welcome to the forum Sherrel!
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Sollecito is giving a live interview tomorrow on ITV's (UK) Daybreak: https://twitter.com/Daybreak/status/374615433770713088


Thanks Michael. From the link you've posted above:

Quote:
On tomorrow's show, as he faces re-trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher, Raffaele Sollecito gives his first live British TV interview.


I thought he gave his first ITV interview back in July, see HERE?

Quote:
The former boyfriend of Amanda Knox told ITV's Daybreak in his first British TV interview that the couple are "victims", after a retrial was ordered into the 2007 killing of British student Meredith Kercher.


http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?p=109498#p109498

Could it be a rebroadcast of an old interview? We shall see.

Unfortunately, that means that a video of this interview won't be available to viewers outside the UK. :(
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:25 am   Post subject: RE: 112 CALLS   

Now that we have the complete tapes, compare them with Candace Dempsey's original reporting back in October 2008: Timing Is All

Quote:
*12:35 p.m. Postal police arrive. (They originally said.).

*12.50 p.m. Raffaele calls his sister in the carabiniere, a different branch of the Italian police.

*12:51 p.m.. Raffaele calls the carabiniere. They ask him to call back.

In his diary, he says: “At the end I think that the only thing to do was break down Meredith’s door. We try, but we cannot, then we call my sister and she tells me to call 112. I call them and leave the name of Amanda and the details and try to explain briefly the situation. They say (they will call back?). We pause to wait outside and suddenly you have two men and they tell us they are the postal police who are trying to find Filomena, as they had found two mobile phones and one of the numbers belongs to Filomena. Amanda thinks the phones are Meredith’s and I ask the police to break the door.

*12:54. Raffaele calls the carabiniere again.

Here is my translation of this recently leaked call. I use colloquial American English. You can also hear the call.

RS: Hello, good morning, listen, ah … someone broke into the house through a window and made a big mess. There is a closed door. The address is Via della Pergola #7 in Perugia.

Police: They managed to enter that way, they broke a window? And how do you know that’s how they entered?

RS: You can see the signs. There are also stains of blood in the bathroom. They didn’t take anything. The problem is the door is locked … There is a lot of blood.

Police: There is a locked door? Which door is locked?

RS: The one belonging to the roommate who isn’t here and we don’t know where she is. Yes, yes, we tried to call her, but she does not respond to anyone.

Police: Okay, good, now we will send a patrol so we verify the situation.

Audio released by Tg1


Layer upon layer of lies..
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

pp-( Welcome, sherrel! Erma Bombeck is a favorite of mine.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Sollecito has been tweeting again on the weekend:

Raffaele Sollecito ‏@Raffasolaries 14h

Quote:
I'm looking to know who's Mr. C.G. Smeets
Can anybody help me?
Raffaele Sollecito


https://twitter.com/Raffasolaries

Maybe someone would like to forward him this link: ;)

http://www.onesource.com/free/CG-Smeets/People/Profile/48281261-14

RS isn't saying anything about tomorrow's interview, so my guess is it's a re-run.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I knew it, on this page I can post using microsoft, windows, so something is wrong with a file someone posted on the preceding page, I think.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
UPDATE


First of all, a correction, with apologies. My sources had mistakenly used the term calunnia when replying to my initial inquiry. It was an honest mistake when there is so much confusion about the differences between diffamazione and calunnia. Still, I double checked and here is the e-mail I received today:


Quote:
Posso confermare che il 6 novembre prossimo si terrà a Firenze l’udienza preliminare contro Francesco Sforza (alias Frank Sfarzo), imputato del delitto di diffamazione aggravata a mezzo stampa (art. 595 c.p. e legge n. 47/1948), in mio danno. Il Pubblico Ministero che ha chiesto il rinvio a giudizio dello Sforza è il Procuratore Aggiunto Dr. Pappalardo. Il GUP (Giudice dell’udienza preliminare) mi pare che si chiami D.ssa Limongi. Io potrò costituirmi parte civile e chiedere il risarcimento a Sforza. Il mio avvocato, come persona offesa, è l’Avv. Marco Rocchi, del Foro di Firenze.
Cordiali saluti.
G. Mignini


Roughly translated:

"I can confirm that on November 6, Florence will be a preliminary hearing against Francesco Sforza (aka Frank Sfarzo), who is accused of the crime of aggravated defamation in the press (art. 595 Criminal Code and Law no. 47/1948), to my detriment . The prosecutor who asked for the indictment against Sforza is the deputy prosecutor Dr. Pappalardo. The GUP (preliminary hearing judge), I think his name is Dr. Limongi. I may costituirmi plaintiff and seek compensation from Sforza. My lawyer, for the injured party, is Marco Rocchi, of the Court of Florence.
Sincerely.
G. Mignini"

So it looks like the beginning of an interesting process. I had received other background information previously about the investigation but this is the definitive clarification of all the reports we saw on TJMK and Twitter.

________________________________________________________________



Yes, great Ergon, well done.

As we touched on earlier.
Aggravated means, in relationship to defamation, that the penalty/sentence increases in proportion to the potential sentence a person could receive if on the basis of false accusations he/she were to be found guilty, so the severity of the accusations means; the false accuser is condemned in proportion to the seriousness of the potential consequences of the false accusations.

So if potentially Doctor Mignini could have received a 20 year sentence, there is a ratio that applies, which is greater/higher than the few years mentioned in other ordinary cases of dematation, if a person accuses someone of something like murder and the sentence could be life, then a person found guilty of making such false claims could get about 20 years if I am remembering right from the other day when I looked these sentencing ratios up.

The accusations Sforza made are very serious because the hypothesis is; if Mignini had been actually tried as a result of such accusations, and somehow found guilty, he could have received a very heavy sentence, it does not matter that there was no case, that there were no charges, was no sentence, the potential through the false accusations is what is so serious.

So what did Sforza say?

I know he said a lot, on many occasions, but I wonder which particular accusation will form the basis of this.
Or maybe it'll be several accusations that form the basis.

Remember, when a prosecutor becomes aware of a crime, he/she must take steps to enforce the law, meaning must prosecute. As the plaintiff this means Mignini could be aware of crimes against him, but he would not be the one who is obliged by law to prosecute, that is why it is another prosecutor, who on becoming aware of the crime(s) was obliged to prosecute, put it this way, if it became known that the prosecutor was aware of the crimes ahgainst Doctor uignini, but failed to prosecute, he/she would have been breaking the law, he/she in turn would be prosecuted for that failure to act and carry out the legal duty.

So a prosecutor is not in the business of turning a blind eye or doing favours, this partly of course to stop corruption, otherwise every prosecutor could be paid off to ignore things. That's a bit hard when your colleagues all know you were aware of an investigation and the data, etc.

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I constitute a civil party and can seek compensation from Sforza


Think this is what the untranslated word is


By the way, it seems I was wrong, as yet again, on a new page, it logs me out when I try to post. So here we are in Chrome again.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hey Z, good morning to you. The question is, what morning show are you watching? ITV's Daybreak by any chance? Be careful not to spill your hot coffee on your leg or choke on your toast if Sollecito's mug suddenly appears on your TV screen with no warning. ;)

On Tuesday's show (6am - 8:30am)

Latest from Syria
My hostage hell
Raffaele Sollecito's first UK TV interview
Waterloo Road's Laurie Brett
Entertainment news with Richard Arnold
Stephen Mulhern

http://www.itv.com/daybreak/
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:20 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Hey Z, good morning to you. The question is, what morning show are you watching? ITV's Daybreak by any chance? Be careful not to spill your hot coffee on your leg or choke on your toast if Sollecito's mug suddenly appears on your TV screen with no warning. ;)

On Tuesday's show (6am - 8:30am)

Latest from Syria
My hostage hell
Raffaele Sollecito's first UK TV interview
Waterloo Road's Laurie Brett
Entertainment news with Richard Arnold
Stephen Mulhern

http://www.itv.com/daybreak/


Yes thank you indeed mucho verymente, if I were preggers seeing his face would lead to a miscarriage and ain't that just appropriate as he is one.

Oh let me fill everyone in on what the ITV is in the UK.

Years ago in days of olde when knights were bold, in Britain we had three TV channels,

They were BBC1 and BB2 and ITV.
The latter was the only commercial channel, so just like in America films and programmes interrupted every 5 minutes for adverts/commercial breaks... be right back, da da da da. Hello, we're back.

Anyway as I know nothing, I dare not say a thing, except I'd be very wary of anything from the ITV, I am wondering what the approach/angle is going to be, maybe it'll be no angle at all, just sensationalism, which would be ITV's style.

Let's hope he has not been in the UK desecrating its soil.


Sollecito: We were a flower it not yet open


Puke

Sollecito: They dumb cops not to find my knife when I am in police headquarters

Puke

Sollecito: They want me make the deal put the American girl, what's her name again, I forgot, I bad memory, anyway, some girl I met, put the American girl the blame but I am the man of honor, I say no, for I am brave and the honor man (turns clenched fist and blows onto row of fingernails like the word smug self-centred idiot were words that had been invented specially for him)


Puking up of intestines

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Last edited by zorba on Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Meredith Kercher murder: 'Life on hold' for Amanda Knox’s ex-lover Raffaele Sollecito over retrial
Small-time drug dealer Rudy Guede serving 16-year sentence for sexually assaulting and killing British student
Martha Linden, Tuesday 03 September 2013
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 95813.html

"We are friends but nowadays my life is very different than hers because she lives with her family, with her parents, she is under United States law and rules.
She is not forced to make decisions like going back to Italy. My situation is very different because I have to stand by Italian rules.
We have moved on. We have different lives, different paths.
I know that if I didn't meet her I would have a different destiny. But it doesn't change the fact that the mistakes weren't made by her."



Amanda Knox co-acccused Raffaele Sollecito says life is 'on hold' as he awaits retrial over Meredith Kercher's murder
3 Sep 2013 09:09
The Italian student says his retrial, set for September 30, is 'constantly on my shoulder'
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/am ... to-2246895
(with picture of the Daybreak show)



'I cannot find a normal life, a job, a career'
By Anthony Bond
PUBLISHED: 09:48 GMT, 3 September 2013 | UPDATED: 09:54 GMT, 3 September 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Sollecito has been tweeting again on the weekend:

Raffaele Sollecito ‏@Raffasolaries 14h

Quote:
I'm looking to know who's Mr. C.G. Smeets
Can anybody help me?
Raffaele Sollecito


https://twitter.com/Raffasolaries

Maybe someone would like to forward him this link: ;)

http://www.onesource.com/free/CG-Smeets/People/Profile/48281261-14

RS isn't saying anything about tomorrow's interview, so my guess is it's a re-run.


I missed the interview in July and can't get the video played, but it does look like a re-run.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just copying this over from Nell, since she's using her tablet and that makes it a little awkward:

Nell wrote:
FYI

There is a real shit storm going on at Bruce Fischer's forum. His members are asking why he never uploaded the two 112 calls if they were indeed on Frank's flash drive and they are asking for their own transcripts and translations.

Member Annella has asked Bruce to upload the phone calls to IIP so that people don't have to visit our site to get them. Bruce responds these calls are nothing new and he doubts a translation will reveal much at this point, but *sigh* he will upload them to keep her happy.

Then there is Dexter, who I am beginning to like. He has posted so much in the past few hours calling Bruce Fischer a liar that I don't think he will last. It is about Frank Sfarzo. Ergon's post has been quoted on IA and it is further proof that we are working for Mignini.

Dexter reminds everyone of Sfarzogate and insists he wants to see the signed arrest warrant. Bruce backtracks even further by saying not only has he never said to have seen the warrant, he now knows it does not exist! Further he tells Dexter to stop debating on his forum if he is unable to recognise that Sfarzo is a victim.

I should add that Dexter also questions Sollecito's credibility and has started arguing about the bleach. He wanted to know why there was confusion about the maid saying she does not use bleach, but new bottles of bleach were found under the sink in Sollecito's apartment.

Regarding Bruce Fischer and his credibility, Dexter keeps asking the right questions.

It should be noted that Reverend Stuart Lyster aka Bill Williams is a huge Sfarzo/Fischer defender against all facts and better knowledge. It's fascinating to watch.

I noted that Rose found a reason to defend Sfarzo nonetheless. According to her we have to look at his writing about the case and him hitting and stealing from others separately. She will keep supporting him, she says.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava quoting Sollecito wrote:
Meredith Kercher murder: 'Life on hold' for Amanda Knox’s ex-lover Raffaele Sollecito over retrial
Small-time drug dealer Rudy Guede serving 16-year sentence for sexually assaulting and killing British student
Martha Linden, Tuesday 03 September 2013
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 95813.html

"We are friends but nowadays my life is very different than hers because she lives with her family, with her parents, she is under United States law and rules.
She is not forced to make decisions like going back to Italy. My situation is very different because I have to stand by Italian rules.
We have moved on. We have different lives, different paths.
I know that if I didn't meet her I would have a different destiny. But it doesn't change the fact that the mistakes weren't made by her."



Thanks, Ava. Sollecito is such a liar. Italian law does not require that he attend his appeal, no more then it (or US laws) requires Knox to.

If this wasn't a live interview, I wish it was, as opposed to a re-run of an old interview. Because reading this, it looks like Sollecito is set to attend his appeal.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

This on Twitter (thanks, Nell):

Quote:
Guilter Watching @GuilterWatching

@NJusticAnywhere is writing an article about #AmandaKnox prosecutor Mignini communicating with the Pakistani conman Naseer Ahamd.



Of course. We are citizen journalists covering the case and as such, we contact many people. That is our role.

However, publicly referring to one of our members as a "conman", is libelous.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

It's an opinion, Michael, and they're welcome to it. That it comes in the wake of the revelation that Bruce has not been up front with his members and released all the information he had and now claims 'wasn't important or relevant' is purely coincidental I am sure. Or that he is now writing an 'expose' of me to come out today is not an attempt to further slur G. Mignini by association is something that his members can ask if they have any principles, if at all. As Bruce well knows, all attempts to intimidate me or attack my credibility has only resulted in an er, effect, on his :)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
FYI

There is a real shit storm going on at Bruce Fischer's forum. His members are asking why he never uploaded the two 112 calls if they were indeed on Frank's flash drive and they are asking for their own transcripts and translations.

Member Annella has asked Bruce to upload the phone calls to IIP so that people don't have to visit our site to get them. Bruce responds these calls are nothing new and he doubts a translation will reveal much at this point, but *sigh* he will upload them to keep her happy.

Then there is Dexter, who I am beginning to like. He has posted so much in the past few hours calling Bruce Fischer a liar that I don't think he will last. It is about Frank Sfarzo. Ergon's post has been quoted on IA and it is further proof that we are working for Mignini.

Dexter reminds everyone of Sfarzogate and insists he wants to see the signed arrest warrant. Bruce backtracks even further by saying not only has he never said to have seen the warrant, he now knows it does not exist! Further he tells Dexter to stop debating on his forum if he is unable to recognise that Sfarzo is a victim.

I should add that Dexter also questions Sollecito's credibility and has started arguing about the bleach. He wanted to know why there was confusion about the maid saying she does not use bleach, but new bottles of bleach were found under the sink in Sollecito's apartment.

Regarding Bruce Fischer and his credibility, Dexter keeps asking the right questions.

It should be noted that Reverend Stuart Lyster aka Bill Williams is a huge Sfarzo/Fischer defender against all facts and better knowledge. It's fascinating to watch.

I noted that Rose found a reason to defend Sfarzo nonetheless. According to her we have to look at his writing about the case and him hitting and stealing from others separately. She will keep supporting him, she says.



Time and time again, we have exposed Bruce Fischer as lying to his followers and withholding evidence from them (and the wider public). Their blindfolds have been ripped off and they now have knowledge. It has come to the point where they cannot abdicate their responsibility for supporting a crook and the even greater crooks Fischer supports, under the guise of well meaning ignorance. If Fischer's followers truly care about justice, as they claim, now is the time to really demonstrate it, instead of merely paying it lip service.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes, Nell, "Rose Montague" is indeed a complex creature, and there are indeed flashes of a principle peeking through at times that I like. Like me, she believes in full disclosure of all the documents, so I respect that.

So, to answer her question whether this action by G. Mignini might not backfire on him as it raises Frank to the status of 'journalist', then yes, that is a good question, even if it is a misdirection. Journalists should be held to a high standard of reporting, should be neutral, and should not just be slurring mouthpieces for the rich and powerful, the Murdochs and Berlusconis of the world. Above all, they should not be above the law of their respective countries, and if they want to break the law, accept the consequences. I believe that Frank Sfarzo will receive a fair trial, and if his problems have more to do with his personal nature than his 'reporting', that will come out as well. Whether he shows up for the trial or not.

I note, though, the hypocrisy of those that ask for special treatment for Frank, while at the same time, attacking me for my reporting on the case. But then, I don't collect donations, and I don't carry out personal vendettas, much as the likes of Bruce Fischer that accuse me of doing that while planning 'exposes' of my personal self, not that I have been hiding anywhere in particular :)

No wonder Bruce will have a hard time registering his business as a non-profit or charitable organization, LOL.
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Offline jhansigirl


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Ava quoting Sollecito wrote:
Meredith Kercher murder: 'Life on hold' for Amanda Knox’s ex-lover Raffaele Sollecito over retrial
Small-time drug dealer Rudy Guede serving 16-year sentence for sexually assaulting and killing British student
Martha Linden, Tuesday 03 September 2013
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 95813.html

"We are friends but nowadays my life is very different than hers because she lives with her family, with her parents, she is under United States law and rules.
She is not forced to make decisions like going back to Italy. My situation is very different because I have to stand by Italian rules.
We have moved on. We have different lives, different paths.
I know that if I didn't meet her I would have a different destiny. But it doesn't change the fact that the mistakes weren't made by her."



Thanks, Ava. Sollecito is such a liar. Italian law does not require that he attend his appeal, no more then it (or US laws) requires Knox to.

If this wasn't a live interview, I wish it was, as opposed to a re-run of an old interview. Because reading this, it looks like Sollecito is set to attend his appeal.


I got the impression it was a 'live' interview because I was watching the programme before and after Sollecito's slot. Um, they were all wearing the er same clothes and that what I am basing my view on but I could be wrong. sh-))

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
Michael wrote:
Ava quoting Sollecito wrote:
Meredith Kercher murder: 'Life on hold' for Amanda Knox’s ex-lover Raffaele Sollecito over retrial
Small-time drug dealer Rudy Guede serving 16-year sentence for sexually assaulting and killing British student
Martha Linden, Tuesday 03 September 2013
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 95813.html

"We are friends but nowadays my life is very different than hers because she lives with her family, with her parents, she is under United States law and rules.
She is not forced to make decisions like going back to Italy. My situation is very different because I have to stand by Italian rules.
We have moved on. We have different lives, different paths.
I know that if I didn't meet her I would have a different destiny. But it doesn't change the fact that the mistakes weren't made by her."



Thanks, Ava. Sollecito is such a liar. Italian law does not require that he attend his appeal, no more then it (or US laws) requires Knox to.

If this wasn't a live interview, I wish it was, as opposed to a re-run of an old interview. Because reading this, it looks like Sollecito is set to attend his appeal.


I got the impression it was a 'live' interview because I was watching the programme before and after Sollecito's slot. Um, they were all wearing the er same clothes and that what I am basing my view on but I could be wrong. sh-))



Let's see :) Here's the interview:


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

So many lies. It is not a fresh trial, it's a fresh appeal...an appeal Sollecito requested!

The Kerchers have all the documents, they purposely became civil plaintiffs in the process so they could have them. And they can read Italian. Sollecitto and his followers, need to stop publicly proclaiming that the Kerchers are going on 'gut feelings', 'biased media' reports and what 'Maresca tells them'.

The kissing outside the cottage was never an issue, I wish the media would stop bringing it up. Never once did any of the court hearings bring it up. It is one of the case's ultimate straw men.

And the so-called Italian legal expert is obviously in Sollecito's employ, he is not an impartial expert.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
So many lies. It is not a fresh trial, it's a fresh appeal...an appeal Sollecito requested!

The Kerchers have all the documents, they purposely became civil plaintiffs in the process so they could have them. Sollecitto and his followers, need to stop publicly proclaiming that the Kerchers are going on 'gut feelings', 'biased media' reports and what 'Maresca tells them'.

The kissing outside the cottage was never an issue, I wish the media would stop bringing it up. Never once did any of the court hearings bring it up. It is one of the case's ultimate straw men.

And the so-called Italian legal expert is obviously in Sollecito's employ, he is not an impartial expert.


So was it live?

I don't normally watch ITV so don't know their setup.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I don't either.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks, Michael, for embedding the Youtube video. Yes, it's a "new" (not sure about "live") interview, although he doesn't say anything new in it. If anyone feels like creating a full transcript of this interview for our collection, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Same things are repeated in the Guardian:

Raffaele Sollecito speaks out ahead of Meredith Kercher murder retrial
By Press Association

"Every tiny little day, it is constantly on my shoulder, because these trials, this kind of situation, has put my life on hold," Sollecito told ITV's Daybreak.

"I cannot find a normal life, a job, a career or something to focus on instead of thinking about the trial, about the documents, about what will happen, about how to pay lawyers, how to pay my bills," he said.

Speaking about his relationship with Knox, Sollecito said: "It was a teenage romance, it was a blossoming, we were eager to date each other, to see each other every day. But as soon as we dated and we started to have this romance, it was shut down, it was destroyed by events and circumstances."


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

(( OT OT ))

Nice pic of the day. Koala asking for water:

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTPwhDaIcAABR3N.jpg

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:43 pm   Post subject: FURTHER LIBELS FROM BRUCE FISCHER   

Bruce Fischer of the vendetta site Idiots-Anywhere seems to be implying that I am in possession of personal items belonging to Frank Sfarzo, to wit a flash drive. For the record, no I do not. As I pointed out back in February or thereabouts, to my best knowledge they are in the hands of the Italian authorities, and Frank is not only a serial assaulter, he is a serial leaker, leaving stuff everywhere and blabbing to all who would listen.The only items that belonged to him that was offered to me was a box of "Amanda Knox" T-Shirts which I politely declined. As to the information that we have published here, well sorry, but as citizen journalists we have a duty to report on information that is given to us by whatever source, and yes, we protect our sources, much as Bruce would like to fish.

Or distract people from the fact that he has been caught suppressing information which would show his clients in a bad light. Otherwise why all the flurry of activity now? Sfarzo-Gate has been out since last November. Is he trying to help Frank, or himself?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
(( OT OT ))

Nice pic of the day. Koala asking for water:

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTPwhDaIcAABR3N.jpg



awww, so cute.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Charisma. Some people possess it, some don't. Case in point: Kate Middleton. Whenever I see a picture of her or an article about her, I smile. Can't say why. I don't know her, don't really follow the goings-on in the lives of the Royal family, but there is a 'feel' about her that is, IMO infectious. She is delightful, refreshing, and just plain charming. For all I know, she could be a complete and utter fraud, but I seriously doubt it. It's there, plain and simple.

This, I think is the problem with the present publicity seeking of the defendants. Neither of them come across as likable people. I know, I know, I believe that both of them are as guilty as sin, so perhaps that colors my opinion, but I really don't think that the fact that I think they are guilty takes away from the basic fact that Knox and Sollecito do themselves no favors by giving interviews. They come across flat, lacking in affect, unable to really sell their stories, and I believe that Knox's people at least, picked up on this toward the end, and had Edda do a good bit of the talking in the View interview. Edda, to me is at least relatable.

Sollecito's current interview is a total fail,IMO. Does his boring, lackluster demeanor mean that he is guilty? No, of course not. But, if you want to sell something, you have to have the proper equipment to convince people to buy. I think that book sales reflect the public's reaction to their appearances on television, so it's not just my opinion.

I am not saying these things to be cruel. In any other circumstances they would be two very ordinary people living very ordinary lives. Nothing at all wrong with that. But, the brutal murder of Meredith Kercher has placed both of them in the limelight and the ONLY thing that will make either of them shine at this point is the truth. Otherwise, they should both stay away from the cameras and microphones. I'll bet all of their lawyers are already painfully aware of this.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

As hugo and Jools have jointly found out, the man sitting on the couch next to Sollecito is

hugo wrote:
Francesco Mastro, lawyer, Bari area. His LinkedIn page says 'Penalista patrocinante in Cassazione' -- whatever that means.


Jools wrote:
"Penalista Patrocinante in Cassazione" means "Criminal lawyer who's qualified to represent clients before Italy's Supreme Court."

Francesco Mastro has been the family lawyer for a while (they must have got rid of Tiziano Tedeschi) he was the lawyer that represented the Sollecitos in the lawsuit against them (re the Telenorba video) when the proceedings moved from Perugia to Bari's jurisdiction.
http://www.giovinazzolive.it/news/Cronaca/216398/news.aspx

Seems Mastro was a political mate of Knife-Boy's aunt Sara Achille. Mastro last year tried to have a go at political activity in their local town, and just like aunt Sara he didn't get very far. Here is a picture of both on the campaign trail. :giggle: I think the man standing on the left of this picture is Sara's husband -Papa Doc brother- who was also trying to get involved in local politics.
http://www.giovinazzolive.it/news/media/178035/news.aspx
...


http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=141629#p141629

I'm just wondering if Francesco Mastro will be representing Raffaele Sollecito at the new appeal trial in Florence (perhaps because RS can't afford an expensive lawyer like Giulia Bongiorno anymore?)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Poor old sausage Sollecito doesn't half feel sorry for himself.

The poor guy, commits murder, isn't it? Then cannot get a job, all these court cases, how will he manage.

I just cannot get why they were so against the police.

If the police were trying to find out who murdered my friend, I'd do everything to back them up.

Wouldn't that be something eh, everyone who gets pulled in by the police, just say it's the police who are the baddies. Ingenius, I don't know why nobody, never, in the whole wide world, came up with it before.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

My posts started posting themselves now

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

It's a pity ITV didn't introduce him as his lawyer. He was introduced as "an expert on Italian law". That wasn't accidental, that was deliberately deceiving the audience.

In fact, I may even make a formal complaint to the watchdog over that.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Sollecito's pleas for help led to the following from citizens in his hometown


1) Please, ignore such requests, and help those who really need it (and there are also many around us).

2) Instead of spending money to go to New York or get the mega villa in bisceglie, you would pay your job ....

3) but all the money ... interviews .... movie .... where are they? would use those!



4) Send me your IBAN bank I'll pay all,
Edmondo

5) Even if we believe completely in his innocence, if he has no more financial resources perhaps he could avoid going around the world, at least.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
They come across flat, lacking in affect, unable to really sell their stories...

Sollecito's current interview is a total fail, IMO. Does his boring, lackluster demeanor mean that he is guilty?


RS also does very strange twisting movements with his neck. I hope it's not a new tic and a precursor to something more serious (like antisocial personality disorder.) ;)
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Offline jape


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
They come across flat, lacking in affect, unable to really sell their stories...

Sollecito's current interview is a total fail, IMO. Does his boring, lackluster demeanor mean that he is guilty?


RS also does very strange twisting movements with his neck. I hope it's not a new tic and a precursor to something more serious (like antisocial personality disorder.) ;)


Yes, I noticed that. Ducking and weaving, ducking and weaving. It's got to be a habit he can't get out of now.

Mastro would look quite the part in a Die Hard movie.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Charisma. Some people possess it, some don't. Case in point: Kate Middleton. Whenever I see a picture of her or an article about her, I smile. Can't say why. I don't know her, don't really follow the goings-on in the lives of the Royal family, but there is a 'feel' about her that is, IMO infectious. She is delightful, refreshing, and just plain charming. For all I know, she could be a complete and utter fraud, but I seriously doubt it. It's there, plain and simple.

This, I think is the problem with the present publicity seeking of the defendants. Neither of them come across as likable people. I know, I know, I believe that both of them are as guilty as sin, so perhaps that colors my opinion, but I really don't think that the fact that I think they are guilty takes away from the basic fact that Knox and Sollecito do themselves no favors by giving interviews. They come across flat, lacking in affect, unable to really sell their stories, and I believe that Knox's people at least, picked up on this toward the end, and had Edda do a good bit of the talking in the View interview. Edda, to me is at least relatable.

Sollecito's current interview is a total fail,IMO. Does his boring, lackluster demeanor mean that he is guilty? No, of course not. But, if you want to sell something, you have to have the proper equipment to convince people to buy. I think that book sales reflect the public's reaction to their appearances on television, so it's not just my opinion.

I am not saying these things to be cruel. In any other circumstances they would be two very ordinary people living very ordinary lives. Nothing at all wrong with that. But, the brutal murder of Meredith Kercher has placed both of them in the limelight and the ONLY thing that will make either of them shine at this point is the truth. Otherwise, they should both stay away from the cameras and microphones. I'll bet all of their lawyers are already painfully aware of this.


I was never a fan of the monarchy but I get the same, and I also like the two brothers, they are just like a breath of fresh air in the royal family.

On Sollecito, the reason I can hardly bear a moment of his actual face, with moving mouth, is because with all of what I know, I cannot help but sense how deceitful he is, Knox equally so.

Wouldn't just say things,

in a way it's understandable but their families cannot believee it, because to do so means their own worlds must collapse, therefore it isa kind of self-protection, no matter how bad that is, worse for their worlds is to have to accept that their loved one could do such a terrible thing. They're in shock, everything in them will deny.

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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Thanks for the update Ergon.

If I remember correctly, there was a judges order to shut down Francesco Sforza's blog perugia-shock.blogspot.com. He and the Knox supporters cried foul and restored Frank Sfarzo's blog at a new domain, perugiashock.com. This blog was taken down voluntarily in January 2013, after his extended "holiday" to avoid his court hearing in Italy and after his multiple arrests in Canada and the U.S.

If Mignini's accusation is unfounded - whoever has read Sfarzo's blog knows it's justified - then why remove the blog? Isn't that an admission of sorts?


Frank is a pragmatist. Originally he reported honestly until he realized it was in his best interest to lie so he did that. Once he realized his behaviour had ensured that he would no get any more money he let the domain expire. Why should he spend $9 to keep it? That is how little interest he had in all of this. Guaranteed that for very little money I could convince Frank to resurrect his blog but now claim that they are guilty. Frank has no character and just does what is in the immediate best interest of Frank.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I can't believe RS is in Britain! So he might be heading home for the re-appeal after all...

Nice headline (got my attention, too):
Amanda Knox's Ex-Beau Muses on 'Different Destiny' if They Hadn't Met
ROME Sept. 3, 2013
By PHOEBE NATANSON via Good Morning America
http://abcnews.go.com/International/ama ... d=20145239
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
I can't believe RS is in Britain! So he might be heading home for the trial after all...

Nice headline (got my attention, too):
Amanda Knox's Ex-Beau Muses on 'Different Destiny' if They Hadn't Met
ROME Sept. 3, 2013
By PHOEBE NATANSON via Good Morning America
http://abcnews.go.com/International/ama ... d=20145239



Is he?

Do you know?

I mean the TV channel may be in Britain or British but he does not need to go to London or Britain to get interviewed, god the thought of it is awful.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

He must be writing to TV channels, etc, and proposing interviews, at a price.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

O no,

That interviewer is someone I can't stand, he presents religious shows with a bit of day time TV crap, is an absolute goody goody guy, with totally nothing to say, whatever is someone like that doing interviewing Sollecito.

I cannot watch that.

What an absolutely vile person Sollecito is

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
Well assuming the Independent story is accurate this would be the second night in a row that Meredith told Knox she couldn't hang out with her. Even if Meredith was not fond of her you feel bad about having someone who keeps asking you to do things with her and which you keep blowing off.

Now if you subscribe to the premeditated theory then these multiple requests to do something take on a more nefarious tone.

So, do you think rejection had something to do with Amandas uncontrolled actions?
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
When there are two defendants involved, both having separate attorneys, do those attorneys meet beforehand to discuss strategy? This press release, or whatever it is, seems to be directed toward explaining a distancing type relationship between the defendants. The connection is there, so to speak, simply because of their involvement with the case up to this point. Raffaele's attorneys now know, if they didn't before, that Knox will not be attending.
I wonder if they view this as a good thing for their client?


I imagine they've been having meetings, Napia5. It was very clear at Cassazione that their's was a combined strategy, and how could it not have been? Ever since the fatal decision to join both defenses at the initial trial, they've been stuck with it. How much is that due to the intransigence of Knife Boy, the seductive promises of St. Mandy's supporters that they can get him refuge in America, or just the thought that if she should fall, then so would he? And in that vein, if Knox should not attend, it is very clear now that he will not, either. I can think of twenty different scenarios where appearing would be a disaster, mostly centering around a) their books B) witness Aviello being recalled and c) Rudy Guede. It matters not what the lawyers think, in the face of clients unwilling to listen to their advice anyway.. The only thing left to speculate on now is whether FRANK will appear at his own trial, which would be interesting. They have a LOT of evidence against him now ;)

Aside from that, what is really interesting is the nature of the defense appeal arguments. Their briefs will already have been submitted to the Florence Court, and the lawyers will be there, even if their clients aren't. So, based on Papa's musings above, what can they argue? The staged break in? That Guede's final sentencing prejudiced the two getting a fair trial? The 112 calls being used as evidence of guilt? (Note to self: post the full 112 calls, which PMF does NOT have at present) Will the knife DNA be argued again (Note to self: post the metadata obtained from the knife photos in the Evidence Files I posted a while back, which proves they were taken in Stefano Conti's lab in March of 2011)

It will be, when all is said and done, a review of the Massei Trial, but also, a new one. One thing to expect, based on their Astrology: their karma is entwined, expect surprises in November. For Knox, a change of residence and much uncertainty. For Sollecito, a karmic year, when all the good, and all the bad, finally will catch up to him. Hmm.


I too, wonder if Frank will show to "clear his good name".
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:57 pm   Post subject: Re: SO WHO IS GUILTER WATCHING WATCHING NOW?   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, all. I posted a heads up about a rabid Knoxer who's been going around the net collecting our pictures from Social Media and posting them on her Twitter account #GuilterWatching. https://twitter.com/GuilterWatching

It didn't bother me that she was using my picture. I've been stalked and 'exposed' by Christian Evangelicals, Zionists, neo-cons and their like for so long it's no big deal-I always had a public profile-But this person posts pictures of Peggy Ganong, Tara, Peter Quennell, Mignini, Giobbi, Napoleoni, anyone who she has a hate on for in her media gallery.

But ever since I posted about it, this person seems to be escalating, likes the attention, who knows? Time to er, investigate.

As a writer I like to read speech patterns. With my psychological background I try to form profiles. This person seemed the type to hold grudges. Keeps rabbiting on about 'hate groups'. Probably attended the gathering on Vashon Island where all the photographs came to light, so seems to have an especial grudge against yours truly :) and oh yes, uses multiple profiles and likes to use sock accounts.

Only two people I know that fit this full profile: Bruce Fischer and Karen Pruett, and of the two, KayPea, as she otherwise calls herself, who made numerous posts letting us know she'd reported us to the FBI as a 'hate group' best fits. Bruce, on the other hand, is quickly distancing himself from the crazier of his flock as he seeks to re brand his image, so strike him out. And he doesn't seem to use fake accounts, preferring like Frank, to stick to his name Bruce Fisher/Fischer. But KayPea? She's morphed from being besties with Curt Knox, friends of the family, as even her friends tell her, come on, Kaypea, stop gilding the lily. You and Curt come from the same island, but "friends of the family"? "Our community"? What a load of rubbish.

Of course, as Nobody tells us, he challenged and caught Kaypea's sock puppetry on her own board. Back when SfarzoGate came out, she used that to attack tamale, and others, not wanting to do that under her own name.

So, for the person behind "Guilter Watching", my vote is on KayPea. Anyone else? ;)

Me too. She is studied in the art of sock puppetry. Thanks nobody pp-(
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
There's been a lot of small earthquakes in Italy over the past few days. I hope it's not gearing up for a big one!

Haha...I felt a deep rumbler that lasted close to one minute. I kept asking myself if I should get out of bed. Ha
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Bruce Fischer did a lot more than that. He entertained a thread for the purpose of outing people critical of Amanda Knox where he allowed personal information like employer, locations and photos to be posted. The sole purpose was to intimidate these people, so they would back off and stop being supporters for justice for Meredith.

The thread has been removed since there was some backlash and he received criticism even from his own members.

The gossip and outing threads are the most visited and commented on over at Injustice Anywhere.


For what reason are those posters bugging people. They should be very busy shining up Amandas reputation. Attracting negative energy is not a smart way to go about things.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
I can't believe RS is in Britain! So he might be heading home for the re-appeal after all...

Nice headline (got my attention, too):
Amanda Knox's Ex-Beau Muses on 'Different Destiny' if They Hadn't Met
ROME Sept. 3, 2013
By PHOEBE NATANSON via Good Morning America
http://abcnews.go.com/International/ama ... d=20145239

I find it hard to believe any info on Raff's whereabouts. He lies to much about that. I will believe it when I see it...he really got kicked to the curb by Camp Amanda. That is why he is hanging with Frank...they are both in the dog house in Amanda Land.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
Thanks for the update Ergon.

If I remember correctly, there was a judges order to shut down Francesco Sforza's blog perugia-shock.blogspot.com. He and the Knox supporters cried foul and restored Frank Sfarzo's blog at a new domain, perugiashock.com. This blog was taken down voluntarily in January 2013, after his extended "holiday" to avoid his court hearing in Italy and after his multiple arrests in Canada and the U.S.

If Mignini's accusation is unfounded - whoever has read Sfarzo's blog knows it's justified - then why remove the blog? Isn't that an admission of sorts?


Frank is a pragmatist. Originally he reported honestly until he realized it was in his best interest to lie so he did that. Once he realized his behaviour had ensured that he would no get any more money he let the domain expire. Why should he spend $9 to keep it? That is how little interest he had in all of this. Guaranteed that for very little money I could convince Frank to resurrect his blog but now claim that they are guilty. Frank has no character and just does what is in the immediate best interest of Frank.


Yeah, but he didn't own his site (the second one). It was the FOAKers who set that up for him and owned it and the domain (Chris Mellas and one or two of his cronies), they retained control and it was they that shut Frank's site down...quietly. He'd become a liability after Sfarzogate.

All the rest, I fully agree with what you say. Sforza is a parasite, nothing more.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

tamale wrote:
Michael wrote:
There's been a lot of small earthquakes in Italy over the past few days. I hope it's not gearing up for a big one!

Haha...I felt a deep rumbler that lasted close to one minute. I kept asking myself if I should get out of bed. Ha


In bed (or more to the point, under it) is probably the safest place.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

tamale wrote:
Ava wrote:
I can't believe RS is in Britain! So he might be heading home for the re-appeal after all...

Nice headline (got my attention, too):
Amanda Knox's Ex-Beau Muses on 'Different Destiny' if They Hadn't Met
ROME Sept. 3, 2013
By PHOEBE NATANSON via Good Morning America
http://abcnews.go.com/International/ama ... d=20145239

I find it hard to believe any info on Raff's whereabouts. He lies to much about that. I will believe it when I see it...he really got kicked to the curb by Camp Amanda. That is why he is hanging with Frank...they are both in the dog house in Amanda Land.


Raffaele is obviously sitting in a British TV studio with British hosts, and the interview is either live (which I think it was) or recorded recently. His hair is longer than it was in July, so it should be a new interview. Other than that he sounds like a broken record of course, that's why I first thought it was a re-run, when I'd only read the news articles about it.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

tamale wrote:
McCall wrote:
Well assuming the Independent story is accurate this would be the second night in a row that Meredith told Knox she couldn't hang out with her. Even if Meredith was not fond of her you feel bad about having someone who keeps asking you to do things with her and which you keep blowing off.

Now if you subscribe to the premeditated theory then these multiple requests to do something take on a more nefarious tone.


So, do you think rejection had something to do with Amandas uncontrolled actions?


No doubt in my mind that the attack was of the "You think you're better than me?!" persuasion.


(Answer: Yes.)
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
Thanks for the update Ergon.

If I remember correctly, there was a judges order to shut down Francesco Sforza's blog perugia-shock.blogspot.com. He and the Knox supporters cried foul and restored Frank Sfarzo's blog at a new domain, perugiashock.com. This blog was taken down voluntarily in January 2013, after his extended "holiday" to avoid his court hearing in Italy and after his multiple arrests in Canada and the U.S.

If Mignini's accusation is unfounded - whoever has read Sfarzo's blog knows it's justified - then why remove the blog? Isn't that an admission of sorts?


Frank is a pragmatist. Originally he reported honestly until he realized it was in his best interest to lie so he did that. Once he realized his behaviour had ensured that he would no get any more money he let the domain expire. Why should he spend $9 to keep it? That is how little interest he had in all of this. Guaranteed that for very little money I could convince Frank to resurrect his blog but now claim that they are guilty. Frank has no character and just does what is in the immediate best interest of Frank.


Yeah, but he didn't own his site (the second one). It was the FOAKers who set that up for him and owned it and the domain (Chris Mellas and one or two of his cronies), they retained control and it was they that shut Frank's site down...quietly. He'd become a liability after Sfarzogate.

All the rest, I fully agree with what you say. Sforza is a parasite, nothing more.


I didn't know that. The personal stuff is not of much interest to me except as a study of the absurd.

I never read PerugiaShock so I was curious and I looked it up earlier today. The name expired for non-payment in March and was quickly purchased by someone with an Asian name who in May put up some kind of landing page for what appears to be a Japanese work-at-home scam. The site is still a PR3 so is worth about $50 and there are lots of people waiting to buy these as soon as someone lets them lapse so that it was quickly purchased.

Previous to that the site had been made private sometime in late January or early February so only members could read it. I assume that is when Sfarzogate happened?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Not too long after. Then, they shut it down completely. Not only that, they'd learned their lesson from Frank's previous blog (which one can still read on the Wayback Machine) and contacted the Wayback Machine people and had it removed from their cache. They wanted that site dead and buried.

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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

They're under the ABC article arguing for dust DNA, bless their hearts.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

"Dust DNA is the explanation for Raffaele, or something. He'd been in the house"

"But Meredith's boyfriend had been in her room and intimate with her there; why isn't his DNA anywhere?"

"RUDY RUDY RUDY"


Repeat x 5 more years.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Boring, isn't it? The FOAKers bore me to death. Reading them, I can feel my poor brain cells dying from the sheer overload of repetitive drivel and ridiculous arguments and excuses. Wasn't that a form of torture the US has applied before now...playing the same record over and over at their victims? I believe that's how they got Noriega to surrender from where he was hiding. Reading the FOAKers is like being locked in a dungeon with the Birdy Song being played at you full blast, over and over...and over.

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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Not too long after. Then, they shut it down completely. Not only that, they'd learned their lesson from Frank's previous blog (which one can still read on the Wayback Machine) and contacted the Wayback Machine people and had it removed from their cache. They wanted that site dead and buried.


Perugiashock.com is still available on the Wayback Machine in its full glory.

It should be pointed out that Frank Sfarzo's original blog has never been fully migrated to the new domain. Most of it, including the toxic comment section was left out.

On Bruce Fischer's forum they claimed the reason was of technical nature, but I believe they chose arbitrarily which articles to resucitate.

EDIT: To save you the trouble, the last snapshot taken from Sfarzo's website that shows the original content is from 13th of January 2013. The next snapshot taken on the 19th of February shows his blog has been set to private. The last snapshot showing the protected blog is from the 22nd of June 2013. Since then there is only advertisement. Someone purchased the domain in June 2013 according to the records held at whois.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ah, it did survive on the Wayback Machine. Aren't we lucky!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:28 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

(( OT OT ))

Oh dear, just in. Earthquake at Fukushima:

Fabrizio Goria ‏@FGoria 1m
RT @miasaini: BREAKING: Japan quake is intensity 4 out of 7 in Fukushima @BloombergTVWrld



In Tokyo, it's registering 6.9.

BBC reporting it's 6.4.

UPDATE: ;)

zerohedge ‏@zerohedge 1m
NO IMPACT ON TEPCO'S FUKUSHIMA PLANTS FROM QUAKE, NHK SAYS. Spoiler alert: Tepco never lies

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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Speaking of coveted audio...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Michael wrote:
Not too long after. Then, they shut it down completely. Not only that, they'd learned their lesson from Frank's previous blog (which one can still read on the Wayback Machine) and contacted the Wayback Machine people and had it removed from their cache. They wanted that site dead and buried.


Perugiashock.com is still available on the Wayback Machine in its full glory.

It should be pointed out that Frank Sfarzo's original blog has never been fully migrated to the new domain. Most of it, including the toxic comment section was left out.

On Bruce Fischer's forum they claimed the reason was of technical nature, but I believe they chose arbitrarily which articles to resucitate.

EDIT: To save you the trouble, the last snapshot taken from Sfarzo's website that shows the original content is from 13th of January 2013. The next snapshot taken on the 19th of February shows his blog has been set to private. The last snapshot showing the protected blog is from the 22nd of June 2013. Since then there is only advertisement. Someone purchased the domain in June 2013 according to the records held at whois.


January 13? That's my birthday! ROFL :) But as it is, his last blog was Dec. 14 as the full extent of his assaults came to light. Plus the making a pass at Amanda thing.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes of all of the people involved in murder, one way or another, in the world and specifically, in the UK, how many of them get to be on TV, and how many, what are to Britain, foreigners, who are involved in the murder of a British national, one way or another, go on TV in Britain, this is just so weird.

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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Boring, isn't it? The FOAKers bore me to death. Reading them, I can feel my poor brain cells dying from the sheer overload of repetitive drivel and ridiculous arguments and excuses. Wasn't that a form of torture the US has applied before now...playing the same record over and over at their victims? I believe that's how they got Noriega to surrender from where he was hiding. Reading the FOAKers is like being locked in a dungeon with the Birdy Song being played at you full blast, over and over...and over.


Haha... like Clockwork Orange in a way.

You can smell the desperation in their pitiful postings.

angel-)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Foxy Knoxy's former lover complains about his life
By Chelsea Hoffman
Sep 04, 2013 at 5:05 AM PDT

ALL VOICES
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I just caught the end of something with Raffaele Sollecito on BBC News 24. It was a clip of a segment of Sollecito being grilled by Gavin Estler on Hardtalk. I'm presuming it's going to be shown tonight on BBC News 24. The part I caught was Estler getting Sollecito to give his assurance that he will be attending the Appeal in Florence.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
I just caught the end of something with Raffaele Sollecito on BBC News 24. It was a clip of a segment of Sollecito being grilled by Gavin Estler on Hardtalk. I'm presuming it's going to be shown tonight on BBC News 24. The part I caught was Estler getting Sollecito to give his assurance that he will be attending the Appeal in Florence.


Really?

Incredible.

So basically, in his desperation he is trying to persuade people to believe him at the source meaning in Meredith's home country.

This man is truly shameless.

Imagine though like if one of them at some stage does cave in, maybe through the force of the situation, like him ending up in jail but then to think, to really know that he did all of this while being guilty all along, I mean I have always thought he was and is guilty but if it were to be confirmed, the thought of their actions, it really does show how depraved they are.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Real news is that he is not as much in London or Italy as perhaps having been refused any further permits to stay in America, as far as I know it is not easy at all that to stay there, not at all, so maybe he IS on the way back to Italy.

All I know is of all the people I met on my travels, you know all away from home, it was the Italians who all returned home, and proportionally, they were small in numbers, as regards remaining in a foreign country, they just had too much to miss, whereas, yeah if I leave London it's not like I'm going to miss the sunshine that is so abundant, in many places nearly all year, but Italy, and Bari isn't the coldest, it's a warm clime, but more, just the culture, there's a lot to miss, I saw Italians not even take their coat off run to he stove and start smashing a pastachuitto together tearing olives to bits to pile into the sauce, and telling me, listen, if I do not eat pasta at least once a day I will get ill,

I mean that stuff's heroin to them.

Nope, old Sausage Silly Sollepsycho is gonna miss his country, if he stays away, but, actually, being in jail will not reall be like being home, so maybe his next stop is going to be TV in Argentine or so.

I don't know why he doesn't just marry Okay Don't Pee on Me, island dweller, product of inbred stock, she'll stick up for him.

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
I just caught the end of something with Raffaele Sollecito on BBC News 24. It was a clip of a segment of Sollecito being grilled by Gavin Estler on Hardtalk. I'm presuming it's going to be shown tonight on BBC News 24. The part I caught was Estler getting Sollecito to give his assurance that he will be attending the Appeal in Florence.


Thank you, Michael. So now it's confirmed: he IS in Britain.

I found this 2min27sec clip on the BBC News website. Brace yourself for more Sollecito cr**:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23963948

Knox's ex-boyfriend on 'nightmare'

The Italian man convicted and then cleared of killing Meredith Kercher has told the BBC's Hardtalk programme that he does not know if the "nightmare" will end.

Raffaele Sollecito, who is awaiting a retrial over her murder, said: "I'm still in the tunnel, I'm fighting and striving to see the light. It's still somewhere, I know that it's somewhere, but I don't know where." Blah, blah, blah.......


BBC NEWS
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks, Guermantes.

So, that should be on tonight if anyone has a mind to catch the whole thing.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   




These lines, repeatedly, that they have always said they're innocent; almost everyone caught says that.

I do not understand such weak angles, its meaningless.

But man it is really too much, the idea of him visiting Meredith's grave, and to think if he did kill Meredith, him doing this, it's frightening.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Real news is that he is not as much in London or Italy as having been refused any further permits to stay in America, as far as I know it is no easy at all that to stay there, not at all, so maybe he IS on the way back to Iyaly,.

All I know is of all the people I met on my travels, you know all away from home, it was the Italians who all returned home, and proportionally, they were small in numbers, as regards remaining in a foreign country, the just had too much to miss, whereas, yeah if I leave London it's not like I'm going to miss the sunshine that is so abundant, in many places nearly all year, but Italy, and Bari isn't the coldest, it's a warm clime, but more, just the culture, there's a lot to miss, I saw Italians not even take their coat off run to he stove and start smashing a pastachuitto together tearing olives to bits to pile into the sauce, and telling me, listen, if I do not eat pasta a least once a day I will get uill, I mean that stuff s heroin to them.

Nope, old Sausage SuiLly Sollecpsycho is gonna miss his country, if he stays away, but, actually, being in jail will not reall be like being home, so maybe his next stop is going to be TV in Argentine or so.

I don't know why he doesn't just marry Okay Don't Pee on Me, island dweller, product of inbred stock, she'll stick up for him.


Either TV Argentina (or Brasil) :), or maybe he follows his lawyers' advice and will be present in Florence in court.
He must be really desperate (and mad) to give live interviews in the UK, out of all places. With all this whining I sometimes get the feeling that he actually thinks he's less guilty than the other two...he acts like a spoiled kid.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

So, it looks like Sollecito's doners instead of helping Sollecito to pay his legal expenses in court, are paying for his TV appearance world tour. I'd be demanding my money back.

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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

"So what's it like raising only 5% of your goal?"

"How is the book doing?"
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:


Either TV Argentina (or Brasil) :), or maybe he follows his lawyers' advice and will be present in Florence in court.
He must be really desperate (and mad) to give live interviews in the UK, out of all places. With all this whining I sometimes get the feeling that he actually thinks he's less guilty than the other two...he acts like a spoiled kid.



Yes, if we only knew the real angle, the connection between the 3 of them, sometimews I think he did the killing but then again, I see him just getting pulled aklong, I see or sense Knox has some real hang-up.

Do you know Eva, people say, yeah people don't just kill, but, sadly, they do, and it often happens in some kind of fit of rage, even with ordinary people, onmly with these, their behaviour and the extremes they are prepared to go to shows, as far as I can see, the basis of how it is they did what they did, it might have happened to someone else, but then at least they'd have shut up, maybe felt sadness about it all, truly, I mean it happens that way, but these, they show no remorse at all, and even if they were innocent, to be saying, given the situation, that he wants to visit Meredith's grave really shows how dense he is, because this is really the last thing Meredith's family want him to do. Ever.

I think Ava, that to give up on Italy is a hard one for him, but his other option, seems to be jail.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
So, that should be on tonight if anyone has a mind to catch the whole thing.


FBN posted this over at .org:

Quote:
The full 30 minute interview will be aired in about an hour (8:30pm London time) and repeated a number of times through Friday: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3cstlg7#programme-broadcasts


Raffaele Sollecito
Duration: 30 minutes

Quote:
Six years ago a young English student Meredith Kercher was murdered in Perugia, Italy. The investigative and judicial process which followed was fundamentally flawed. Two people, Meredith's American flatmate Amanda Knox, and Knox's boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito spent four years in prison convicted of Meredith's murder. Two years ago they were acquitted on appeal; later this month they will be retried by a fresh appeal court in Florence. HARDtalk speaks with Raffaele Sollecito. His story has made lurid headlines around the world - but how will it end?


HARDTALK
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks G.

Hmmm...well, it's past 8:30 now and it isn't on yet.

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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

It's so awful that they write things that way on the BBC, you'd think they could do better but when, through this case, I came across so-called journalists who had no clue at all, then I started to realise BBC is not what it is all cut out to be, in fact there are lots of things I don't like about the BBC.

Fundamentally flawed my arse, oh yeah, but that was nullified, so where the hell are they coming from, useless.

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Last edited by zorba on Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Correction: Interview is with Stephen Sackur, not Gavin Estler.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
It's so awful that they write things that way on the BBC, you'd think they could do better...

Fundamentally flawed my arse, oh yeah, but that was nullified, so where the hell are they coming from, useless.


Hi Z, this BBC report from yesterday is more factual and neutral:

Forensic evidence

Miss Knox and Mr Sollecito were sentenced to 26 and 25 years in prison respectively after being convicted of murder and sexual violence in December 2009.

However, they were freed on appeal by a court in Perugia in October 2011 after doubts were raised about the forensic evidence against them.

Prosecutors and lawyers for the Kercher family then challenged the acquittals, which were subsequently overturned by the Court of Cassation because of the way the appeals process had been handled.

The rerun of Miss Knox's and Mr Sollecito's appeals due to start in Florence on 30 September is technically not a new trial, but a continuation of the original one and therefore not considered "double jeopardy".


BBC NEWS

But, in general, I have to agree with you: why does the BBC give Sollecito a lot of airtime, next to people like Dominique de Villepin, Richard Holloway, Steven Berkoff, and others. It's a disgrace to allow him to repeat his lies unchallenged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n13xtmdc/clips
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The more people see him though... the less doubt there is about him being a murderer IMO.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
tamale wrote:
Michael wrote:
There's been a lot of small earthquakes in Italy over the past few days. I hope it's not gearing up for a big one!

Haha...I felt a deep rumbler that lasted close to one minute. I kept asking myself if I should get out of bed. Ha


In bed (or more to the point, under it) is probably the safest place.


Right you are.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
tamale wrote:
Ava wrote:
I can't believe RS is in Britain! So he might be heading home for the re-appeal after all...

Nice headline (got my attention, too):
Amanda Knox's Ex-Beau Muses on 'Different Destiny' if They Hadn't Met
ROME Sept. 3, 2013
By PHOEBE NATANSON via Good Morning America
http://abcnews.go.com/International/ama ... d=20145239

I find it hard to believe any info on Raff's whereabouts. He lies to much about that. I will believe it when I see it...he really got kicked to the curb by Camp Amanda. That is why he is hanging with Frank...they are both in the dog house in Amanda Land.


Raffaele is obviously sitting in a British TV studio with British hosts, and the interview is either live (which I think it was) or recorded recently. His hair is longer than it was in July, so it should be a new interview. Other than that he sounds like a broken record of course, that's why I first thought it was a re-run, when I'd only read the news articles about it.

Please excuse my error Ava. I did not know he was in company at a tv studio. He lies so much...I just figured this was another.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Foxy Knoxy's former lover complains about his life
By Chelsea Hoffman
Sep 04, 2013 at 5:05 AM PDT

ALL VOICES


Again???
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
Michael wrote:
Boring, isn't it? The FOAKers bore me to death. Reading them, I can feel my poor brain cells dying from the sheer overload of repetitive drivel and ridiculous arguments and excuses. Wasn't that a form of torture the US has applied before now...playing the same record over and over at their victims? I believe that's how they got Noriega to surrender from where he was hiding. Reading the FOAKers is like being locked in a dungeon with the Birdy Song being played at you full blast, over and over...and over.


Haha... like Clockwork Orange in a way.

You can smell the desperation in their pitiful postings.

angel-)

Is that the foul odor I am smelling?
Those IIP types are buggin me too. I thought something must be up. pp-(
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Hmmm...well, it's past 8:30 now and it isn't on yet.


Jools wrote:
It says 20:30 GMT. London time will be 9:30 PM as the UK is still in summer time (GMT+1).


So in about 5 minutes....
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yeah...but no...it's still not on. It's now 9:42

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes, it is. I'm watching it LIVE on the BBC World News live stream:

http://www.zahipedia.net/2009/07/03/watch-online-bbc-world-news-live/

BBC LIVE STREAM

Scroll down a bit...

ETA: It's already over! A meaningless interview. Don't worry if you missed it, it will be repeated ~8 times over the next couple of days.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

It may have been on World News, but we don't have that here. We just have the BBC News Channel. And it hasn't been on that yet.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Looks like Twitter is down. I kind of expected that...after today's vote on Syria. SEA, I bet.

Update; It's back up now, but I'm expecting more disruption to come.

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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

He sounded pretty shady; I enjoyed it.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
zorba wrote:
It's so awful that they write things that way on the BBC, you'd think they could do better...

Fundamentally flawed my arse, oh yeah, but that was nullified, so where the hell are they coming from, useless.


Hi Z, this BBC report from yesterday is more factual and neutral:

Forensic evidence

Miss Knox and Mr Sollecito were sentenced to 26 and 25 years in prison respectively after being convicted of murder and sexual violence in December 2009.

However, they were freed on appeal by a court in Perugia in October 2011 after doubts were raised about the forensic evidence against them.

Prosecutors and lawyers for the Kercher family then challenged the acquittals, which were subsequently overturned by the Court of Cassation because of the way the appeals process had been handled.

The rerun of Miss Knox's and Mr Sollecito's appeals due to start in Florence on 30 September is technically not a new trial, but a continuation of the original one and therefore not considered "double jeopardy".


BBC NEWS

But, in general, I have to agree with you: why does the BBC give Sollecito a lot of airtime, next to people like Dominique de Villepin, Richard Holloway, Steven Berkoff, and others. It's a disgrace to allow him to repeat his lies unchallenged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n13xtmdc/clips


Hi Guer,

Yes that one was better, but what I realised since seeing what happened with misinformation related to this case, and I mean in Britain too because we know the extent to which Marriot manipulated the American TV but then, it wasn't as if they had any quality at all, to start with going by Fox, ABC, CNN all of them, they're all crap in my view with their glossy magazine-look faces and neat suits, and blind you bleached white teeth, but that they have so many useless people at the BBC these days shocked me, because, they are guilty in the past, in this case, of simply copying, just like they did and do in America, I mean it looks like one script was drawn up and sent to everyone and that's called reporting, journalism. holy cows.

I'm glad I couldn't find BBC World, seeing Sollecito carry on isn't going to help anything, least of all him, what a fool. He has really got some nerve though.

The British useless journalists irritate me more than the useless American ones do.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just got this passed to me from over on Org. It appears that Saverio Camporeale, NBC's Dateline editor and editor of the doc "The Trial of Amanda Knox" is actually Papa Sollecito's first cousin and is who Sollecito has been staying with in the States. This find was by Bedelia, so kudos to her:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

More astrokogy:

CONTEST*2 PRIZES* Astrology Riddle: What do Amanda Knox, Patty Hearst, Monica Lewinsky AND Adolf Hitler all have in common?
ASTROLOGY RIDDLE


http://www.keen.com/CommunityServer/Use ... 80487.aspx

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Just got this passed to me from over on Org. It appears that Saverio Camporeale, NBC's Dateline editor and editor of the doc "The Trial of Amanda Knox" is actually Papa Sollecito's first cousin and is who Sollecito has been staying with in the States. This find was by Bedelia, so kudos to her:


As louiehaha told me long ago, Saverio Camporeale is also Sollecito's "media tutor" and probably agent who arranges his TV appearances and schedules media interviews. Here they both are in New York City in September 2012; at the time, Sollecito was in the US on a little promo tour of his book and set to appear on Katie Couric's talk show "Katie."

Attachment:
RS and his media tutor Saverio Camporeale in NY.jpg


I have lots of other pictures, copied from Sollecito's FB page, on my external hard drive if anyone is interested; one is of Saverio Camporeale and Sharlene Martin, who met with Sollecito for dinner in a New York restaurant.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Here they are again, together with Camporeale's wife (?), in New York.

Attachment:
RS in New York -17.jpg


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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Inquiring minds want to know: Why don't the two of them ever give an interview together?
Sooner or later, it's going to dawn on the world that there is really something off about the fact that they don't tell their story together somewhere. They've given enough interviews and both written books. Why don't they appear together?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Any time soon these lot are going to make a musical, you know where they all sing n dance in that special way

Think what A YEAR OR TWO WILL DO
Dance, in the old fashioned way
Let me stay in your arms
Think what a life sentence can do
What difference does a little murder have to do

Dance, in the old fashioned way
Tonite when tomorrow's far away
Look at these folk who seem not to care
My uncle Fred loves me and I love his hair


Uncle, they say these things, wow, look at this fantastic America place, I think I like it here uncle

Don't worry kid, I'm in the media, I'll talk to my people
It was just a little murder I as your uncle have nothing to do with it, and I don't care, you are family.

Sure is swell to see ya son

Oh uncle you sound propriomente Americano, teach me these words, swell, it's swell, about Italy uncle

Ah don't you worry about that, let me sort it out, a murder is unfortunate but you had nothing to do with it right


Er, oh, yes, I see, yes right, niente, I was reading AND LOST MY MEMORY THAT NIGHT

Don't worry, I'll get you a nice job in the police force cousin.

______________

I do not understand, even if it is family, how these people can be oh so happy with it all

Ah son, of course you didn't do it you know that

Sollecito: Do I, oh yes of course yes, I see, of course, you must be right. Glad you are telling me

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Last edited by zorba on Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Here they are again, together with Camporeale's wife (?), in New York.

Attachment:
RS in New York -17.jpg


Thanks, G, It does very much explain why the US media is so sympathetic...when Sollecito has family in it. Of course, none of these conflicts of interest are ever disclosed to the American viewers.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Inquiring minds want to know: Why don't the two of them ever give an interview together?
Sooner or later, it's going to dawn on the world that there is really something off about the fact that they don't tell their story together somewhere. They've given enough interviews and both written books. Why don't they appear together?


That's a very good question. We'll never be given and answer and it will never happen, of course.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:


Either TV Argentina (or Brasil) :), or maybe he follows his lawyers' advice and will be present in Florence in court.
He must be really desperate (and mad) to give live interviews in the UK, out of all places. With all this whining I sometimes get the feeling that he actually thinks he's less guilty than the other two...he acts like a spoiled kid.



Yes, if we only knew the real angle, the connection between the 3 of them, sometimews I think he did the killing but then again, I see him just getting pulled aklong, I see or sense Knox has some real hang-up.

Do you know Eva, people say, yeah people don't just kill, but, sadly, they do, and it often happens in some kind of fit of rage, even with ordinary people, onmly with these, their behaviour and the extremes they are prepared to go to shows, as far as I can see, the basis of how it is they did what they did, it might have happened to someone else, but then at least they'd have shut up, maybe felt sadness about it all, truly, I mean it happens that way, but these, they show no remorse at all, and even if they were innocent, to be saying, given the situation, that he wants to visit Meredith's grave really shows how dense he is, because this is really the last thing Meredith's family want him to do. Ever.

I think Ava, that to give up on Italy is a hard one for him, but his other option, seems to be jail.



These interviews are indeed tasteless, but he probably sees them as a preemptive strike in his effort to keep control of his image or something like that.
Loneliness and homesickness is a good point. Apparently there are no Sollecito family members in Brazil...
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

tamale wrote:
Ava wrote:
tamale wrote:
Ava wrote:
I can't believe RS is in Britain! So he might be heading home for the re-appeal after all...

Nice headline (got my attention, too):
Amanda Knox's Ex-Beau Muses on 'Different Destiny' if They Hadn't Met
ROME Sept. 3, 2013
By PHOEBE NATANSON via Good Morning America
http://abcnews.go.com/International/ama ... d=20145239

I find it hard to believe any info on Raff's whereabouts. He lies to much about that. I will believe it when I see it...he really got kicked to the curb by Camp Amanda. That is why he is hanging with Frank...they are both in the dog house in Amanda Land.


Raffaele is obviously sitting in a British TV studio with British hosts, and the interview is either live (which I think it was) or recorded recently. His hair is longer than it was in July, so it should be a new interview. Other than that he sounds like a broken record of course, that's why I first thought it was a re-run, when I'd only read the news articles about it.

Please excuse my error Ava. I did not know he was in company at a tv studio. He lies so much...I just figured this was another.


True :)
It was a bit strange that he didn't announce the interviews on facebook though. Probably he and Amanda are both scared stiff, as you said some days ago. No more time for little things...
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Offline jhansigirl


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Inquiring minds want to know: Why don't the two of them ever give an interview together?
Sooner or later, it's going to dawn on the world that there is really something off about the fact that they don't tell their story together somewhere. They've given enough interviews and both written books. Why don't they appear together?


Excellent point Napier.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jhansigirl -

Is that your cat? :)

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Offline jhansigirl


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Jhansigirl -

Is that your cat? :)


Yes it is. Her name is Cassie.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

She's a lovely looking cat :)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Okay, I'm hearing that Org may be publishing the high Court Report translation this Monday.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Inquiring minds want to know: Why don't the two of them ever give an interview together?
Sooner or later, it's going to dawn on the world that there is really something off about the fact that they don't tell their story together somewhere. They've given enough interviews and both written books. Why don't they appear together?


Excellent point Napier.


One has to wonder surely. They are supposed to be friends and in regular contact with each other. They have met on various occasions and were photographed together, so why not give an interview together?

The simple answer is they are not as close as they want the public to believe. He found out what kind of person she is while he was incarcerated and she will never forgive him for throwing her under the bus.

There is a reason he was not invited to Vashon Island and her mother accompanies Knox when she goes to meet him.

She is American and he is not. He has to face the Italian courts sooner or later while she still clings to the hope that a possible extradition request will be rejected. Right now they are not equal.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hardtalk with Stephen Sackur is now on on BBC World News.

Hurry if you want to see it:

http://www.zahipedia.net/2009/07/03/watch-online-bbc-world-news-live/
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:58 pm   Post subject: MORE FROM THE DARK SIDE   

It seems that the Friends Of Amanda Knox, even more desperate as her appeal comes up in three weeks time, are on an outing war, posting all the pictures they can find of members of PMF on the web, making racist comments, acting like loons. Bruce Fischer, stung by the blows to his credibility as his own members find out he doesn't post all the evidence files, has now promised to post an 'expose' of me, as if my details aren't public knowledge, or posted already elsewhere, or relevant to his mission statement, LOL. Panties in a twist that I took the initiative to get a press pass to Cassazione or asked PM Mignini for details about 'Frank Sfarzo's' upcoming trial, he tries, in true McCarthyite fashion, to create guilt by association. Funny, how he and his members try to pass off Frank's legal troubles as a 'personal matter', but attack me for my personal beliefs? Or maybe it's my investigative reporting?

Here's the latest, from his forum: Source:

Re: Today over at PMF
Post by Mary_H » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:50 am

Mary_H wrote:
Mensa Dude wrote:
<snip>I think the way Frank appeared to misrepresent his legal predicament in Hawaii (he denied having been arrested and detained despite court records indicating otherwise) was the first definitive indication that he could not be trusted.

Do you have a cite for that?

Quote:
His failure to appear in court to face his Seattle charges was yet another blow to his credibility. An upstanding member of the community (international or otherwise) simply does not behave in that manner.

In what manner? Frank landed at Sea-Tac and was denied entry at customs; no one here, including you, knows why.

Recently in a Ground Report article comments section, Ergon wrote that he had passed a "dossier" of information he had compiled about Frank to Italian authorities. Members of the pro-guilt community have used the mail and the internet in the past to damage the reputations of Steve Moore, Joe Bishop, Kevin Lowe, Michael Krom, Chris Halkides, and many others. Maybe Ergon is the reason Frank wasn't able to make his court date.


First of all, my many posts on Ground Report and here on the subject were in reply to the accusation of my being in possession of 'stolen property'. No, if people leak information to me, and it is relevant to the case, then it is our duty to report it as a matter of public interest.
Next, I don't even recall using the word "dossier", but nice try. If my sources chose to convey the material to the Italian authorities, why are you whining?
Lastly, Frank Sfarzo never shows up in court unless he's arrested first. He missed several due dates in Perugia on the assault on the policewoman charge. Why would he be denied entrance at Sea Tac? If he ever did show up? He didn't even inform his lawyer of his 'difficulties' and she was overheard yelling over the phone at him for his no show. That's why I doubt he'll show in Florence, but if you want to blame Ergon for that, be my guest. I have broad shoulders :)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred,

did you watch the Hardtalk interview? Next rebroadcast is at 9:30pm (London time) or 4:30pm EDT. What a creep Sollecito is. Stephen Sackur asked him harder questions than the usual "soft" interviewer; I'll give him that. Sollecito looked and sounded unconvincing.

Oh, and Sollecito said that he couldn't disclose the amount he was paid for his book. He has to keep it "private", lest his supporters stop lionizing him and sending him money.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

No g... but from what little bits I have seen he looks like a fish out of water.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

A couple of thoughts about the media

- I think this is one of those cases where media representation and public knowledge will always be totally off the mark; the story is too easy to memorize and hits on enough collective fears (black people, "overzealous prosecutors," false imprisonment, foreigners) that it will always go down easier. I'll keep trying to get it out there just in case I'm wrong, just in case someone influential clues in and becomes outraged they've been taken advantage of, but they might never. For me it's important that the necessary system has things figured out and I like to think that the long-suffering Kerchers draw some comfort from the fact that some of us hear them loud and clear and believe in them. (If they even know we're here, I don't know whether they browse any forums)

- I also don't think it will matter much, in the end, because the public is also wrong about how much influence public sentiment has over legal matters. The West Memphis 3 film was incredibly influential in blinding the public to the case against them, and for years and years "everyone's known" they're innocent, and the system ignored it. Facebook groups and Change.org petitions don't amount to a hill of beans in the real world. Really, every time I've witnessed someone plead their case to the media, regardless of the sympathy of the media the justice systems involved just tune it out and carry on.
-- Peru smugglers following the Knox template hoping to force their release; they'll plead guilty when it's time and serve their due.
-- Ryan Ferguson has way, WAY more support than Knox and it has no effect on the proceedings.
-- Some woman was arrested in Mexico for having weed under her bus seat, it seemed likely the smuggler had hidden it there; the family went to the government, then CNN, but had to wait for the show-cause hearing anyway, where it was seen on CCTV she didn't carry the stuff on after all and she was released.
-- George Zimmerman's acquittal went off like a nuclear bomb and the furthest the Justice Dept was willing to go (and this was atypically far) was to set up a tip line for reports of provable violations of the law.

People are free to tweet #FREEAMANDA all they like, but if they think they're making a difference they're wrong.


Last edited by Iodine on Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline jhansigirl


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
She's a lovely looking cat :)


She's my baby.

She says 'Thank you very much Michael'

_________________
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:25 pm   Post subject: Re: MORE FROM THE DARK SIDE   

Ergon wrote:
It seems that the Friends Of Amanda Knox, even more desperate as her appeal comes up in three weeks time, are on an outing war, posting all the pictures they can find of members of PMF on the web, making racist comments, acting like loons. Bruce Fischer, stung by the blows to his credibility as his own members find out he doesn't post all the evidence files, has now promised to post an 'expose' of me, as if my details aren't public knowledge, or posted already elsewhere, or relevant to his mission statement, LOL. Panties in a twist that I took the initiative to get a press pass to Cassazione or asked PM Mignini for details about 'Frank Sfarzo's' upcoming trial, he tries, in true McCarthyite fashion, to create guilt by association. Funny, how he and his members try to pass off Frank's legal troubles as a 'personal matter', but attack me for my personal beliefs? Or maybe it's my investigative reporting?

Here's the latest, from his forum: Source:

Re: Today over at PMF
Post by Mary_H » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:50 am

Mary_H wrote:
Mensa Dude wrote:
<snip>I think the way Frank appeared to misrepresent his legal predicament in Hawaii (he denied having been arrested and detained despite court records indicating otherwise) was the first definitive indication that he could not be trusted.

Do you have a cite for that?

Quote:
His failure to appear in court to face his Seattle charges was yet another blow to his credibility. An upstanding member of the community (international or otherwise) simply does not behave in that manner.

In what manner? Frank landed at Sea-Tac and was denied entry at customs; no one here, including you, knows why.

Recently in a Ground Report article comments section, Ergon wrote that he had passed a "dossier" of information he had compiled about Frank to Italian authorities. Members of the pro-guilt community have used the mail and the internet in the past to damage the reputations of Steve Moore, Joe Bishop, Kevin Lowe, Michael Krom, Chris Halkides, and many others. Maybe Ergon is the reason Frank wasn't able to make his court date.


First of all, my many posts on Ground Report and here on the subject were in reply to the accusation of my being in possession of 'stolen property'. No, if people leak information to me, and it is relevant to the case, then it is our duty to report it as a matter of public interest.
Next, I don't even recall using the word "dossier", but nice try. If my sources chose to convey the material to the Italian authorities, why are you whining?
Lastly, Frank Sfarzo never shows up in court unless he's arrested first. He missed several due dates in Perugia on the assault on the policewoman charge. Why would he be denied entrance at Sea Tac? If he ever did show up? He didn't even inform his lawyer of his 'difficulties' and she was overheard yelling over the phone at him for his no show. That's why I doubt he'll show in Florence, but if you want to blame Ergon for that, be my guest. I have broad shoulders :)



I'll tell you exactly why Sforza was denied entry into the States. He told them at customs that he was a journalist for Oggi Magazine. Only, his visa was the standard visa under the US/Italy visa waver program. Journalists aren't allowed to enter the States with that visa, but instead must have a special visa applied for and filled out by their media employer. So, his entry was denied.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
Michael wrote:
She's a lovely looking cat :)


She's my baby.

She says 'Thank you very much Michael'


She is very welcome!!! :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
dgfred,

did you watch the Hardtalk interview? Next rebroadcast is at 9:30pm (London time) or 4:30pm EDT. What a creep Sollecito is. Stephen Sackur asked him harder questions than the usual "soft" interviewer; I'll give him that. Sollecito looked and sounded unconvincing.

Oh, and Sollecito said that he couldn't disclose the amount he was paid for his book. He has to keep it "private", lest his supporters stop lionizing him and sending him money.



So many lies. Just for starters, he told Sackur that Amanda had been at the police station for five hours the night of the 5th, and that's why she started doing cartwheels, to losen up because she'd been there for so long. They didn't arrive at the police station until 10:15 at the earliest and Knox was doing cartwheels, splits and stretches just before 11 pm, so inside 45 minutes. Five hours!!! Why do "innocent" people need to tell so many lies over and over in their defence? The short answer is that innocent people don't, only the guilty do.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

A couple of more quotes from the Sollecito interview on Daybreak:

Quote:
"The counsel, the detectives and prosecution [are responsible] and they didn't want to change along the way."


IB TIMES

Sollecito slams ‘ridiculous retrial’

Quote:
Speaking on the breakfast show ... Sollecito said: “It’s kind of ridiculous to me because in a system you don’t need hundreds of trials. You need just one trial and then if there are mistakes of course you can appeal for a review of the trial.”

He said that, while he felt “compassion” for the Kercher family he urged them not to “stand by a prosecution theory that makes no sense”.


THE LOCAL
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
zorba wrote:
Ava wrote:


Either TV Argentina (or Brasil) :), or maybe he follows his lawyers' advice and will be present in Florence in court.
He must be really desperate (and mad) to give live interviews in the UK, out of all places. With all this whining I sometimes get the feeling that he actually thinks he's less guilty than the other two...he acts like a spoiled kid.



Yes, if we only knew the real angle, the connection between the 3 of them, sometimes I think he did the killing but then again, I see him just getting pulled along, I see or sense Knox has some real hang-up.

Do you know Eva, people say, yeah people don't just kill, but, sadly, they do, and it often happens in some kind of fit of rage, even with ordinary people, only with these, their behaviour and the extremes they are prepared to go to shows, as far as I can see, the basis of how it is they did what they did, it might have happened to someone else, but then at least they'd have shut up, maybe felt sadness about it all, truly, I mean it happens that way, but these, they show no remorse at all, and even if they were innocent, to be saying, given the situation, that he wants to visit Meredith's grave really shows how dense he is, because this is really the last thing Meredith's family want him to do. Ever.

I think Ava, that to give up on Italy is a hard one for him, but his other option, seems to be jail.



These interviews are indeed tasteless, but he probably sees them as a pre-emptive strike in his effort to keep control of his image or something like that.
Loneliness and homesickness is a good point. Apparently there are no Sollecito family members in Brazil...


Hi Ava,

I find this statement-like way of declaring he would like to visit Meredith's grave, shows how insensitive he is, because even if he were innocent, he'd understand that Meredith's family are not at all happy with him, and under the circumstances, they obviously simply would not want him going anywhere near what is left of Meredith, which is her memories as in, of her, and her grave, the ignorance involved in coming out with that, is incredible, when if he actually felt anything, he'd keep quiet about it, however, the very reason he IS coming out with that, is only to use it as a tool to try to appear genuine, like he is this innocent person who cared. However, he did not know Meredith, for God's sake I've got people who have died in my family and I haven't even been to their graves. In this light, to me his words are yet another act of aggression, of brutality, as it IS brutal what he is saying.

I attempted, fleetingly to take a butchers (a look) at his BBC thing, luckily I didn't find it and shall no longer even bother trying, I don't need it, it gives me nothing in any way, I already know exactly the type of crap he will come out with, just cannot suffer such fools.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse


Last edited by zorba on Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Look at the way he tells us he wrote a letter to the Kerchers , and they didn't write him back. He tells us in a way that makes them sound negligent or even ill mannered. As if he tried and they couldn't be bothered to answer. Please what is he doing in England, what is he trying to prove? Was he trying to impress upon his American audience that he had support in England as well, adding to the hopeful swell of angry voices when he gets reconvicted.
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Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
guermantes wrote:
dgfred,

did you watch the Hardtalk interview? Next rebroadcast is at 9:30pm (London time) or 4:30pm EDT. What a creep Sollecito is. Stephen Sackur asked him harder questions than the usual "soft" interviewer; I'll give him that. Sollecito looked and sounded unconvincing.

Oh, and Sollecito said that he couldn't disclose the amount he was paid for his book. He has to keep it "private", lest his supporters stop lionizing him and sending him money.



So many lies. Just for starters, he told Sackur that Amanda had been at the police station for five hours the night of the 5th, and that's why she started doing cartwheels, to losen up because she'd been there for so long. They didn't arrive at the police station until 10:15 at the earliest and Knox was doing cartwheels, splits and stretches just before 11 pm, so inside 45 minutes. Five hours!!! Why do "innocent" people need to tell so many lies over and over in their defence? The short answer is that innocent people don't, only the guilty do.


Same as our old debates at InSession and Websleuths Michael. We post the facts and ALL the problems with her actions and statements. The groupies argue each piece like it has nothing to do with the other pieces.
We would destroy each argument... then they would just move to the next one and do the same things.

stup-)
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
Look at the way he tells us he wrote a letter to the Kerchers , and they didn't write him back. He tells us in a way that makes them sound negligent or even ill mannered. As if he tried and they couldn't be bothered to answer. Please what is he doing in England, what is he trying to prove? Was he trying to impress upon his American audience that he had support in England as well, adding to the hopeful swell of angry voices when he gets reconvicted.



What, I didn't even know that Mal.

He does appear to be very desperate.

For Knox, he is a liability as he will do something nuts... again.

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline Rumpole


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Don't think this has been posted here yet:




picture of a pumpkin
This Post has been edited by a Moderator
Details: Thanks for that Rumpole!!! I've edited it to put the video in the board's large HD Youtube video player for better viewing, rather then the little standard player :)
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
A couple of more quotes from the Sollecito interview on Daybreak:

Quote:
"The counsel, the detectives and prosecution [are responsible] and they didn't want to change along the way."


IB TIMES

Sollecito slams ‘ridiculous retrial’

Quote:
Speaking on the breakfast show ... Sollecito said: “It’s kind of ridiculous to me because in a system you don’t need hundreds of trials. You need just one trial and then if there are mistakes of course you can appeal for a review of the trial.”

He said that, while he felt “compassion” for the Kercher family he urged them not to “stand by a prosecution theory that makes no sense”.


THE LOCAL


Sollecito was quoted by someone on Twitter as saying that Amanda Knox was Meredith closest friend when she died. Can someone confirm this? I have not seen the interview.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Rumpole wrote:
Don't think this has been posted here yet:



Thank you for posting the video Rumpole!
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:01 am   Post subject: Re: MORE FROM THE DARK SIDE   

Michael wrote:
Ergon wrote:
It seems that the Friends Of Amanda Knox, even more desperate as her appeal comes up in three weeks time, are on an outing war, posting all the pictures they can find of members of PMF on the web, making racist comments, acting like loons. Bruce Fischer, stung by the blows to his credibility as his own members find out he doesn't post all the evidence files, has now promised to post an 'expose' of me, as if my details aren't public knowledge, or posted already elsewhere, or relevant to his mission statement, LOL. Panties in a twist that I took the initiative to get a press pass to Cassazione or asked PM Mignini for details about 'Frank Sfarzo's' upcoming trial, he tries, in true McCarthyite fashion, to create guilt by association. Funny, how he and his members try to pass off Frank's legal troubles as a 'personal matter', but attack me for my personal beliefs? Or maybe it's my investigative reporting?

Here's the latest, from his forum: Source:

Re: Today over at PMF
Post by Mary_H » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:50 am

Mary_H wrote:
Mensa Dude wrote:
<snip>I think the way Frank appeared to misrepresent his legal predicament in Hawaii (he denied having been arrested and detained despite court records indicating otherwise) was the first definitive indication that he could not be trusted.

Do you have a cite for that?

Quote:
His failure to appear in court to face his Seattle charges was yet another blow to his credibility. An upstanding member of the community (international or otherwise) simply does not behave in that manner.

In what manner? Frank landed at Sea-Tac and was denied entry at customs; no one here, including you, knows why.

Recently in a Ground Report article comments section, Ergon wrote that he had passed a "dossier" of information he had compiled about Frank to Italian authorities. Members of the pro-guilt community have used the mail and the internet in the past to damage the reputations of Steve Moore, Joe Bishop, Kevin Lowe, Michael Krom, Chris Halkides, and many others. Maybe Ergon is the reason Frank wasn't able to make his court date.


First of all, my many posts on Ground Report and here on the subject were in reply to the accusation of my being in possession of 'stolen property'. No, if people leak information to me, and it is relevant to the case, then it is our duty to report it as a matter of public interest.
Next, I don't even recall using the word "dossier", but nice try. If my sources chose to convey the material to the Italian authorities, why are you whining?
Lastly, Frank Sfarzo never shows up in court unless he's arrested first. He missed several due dates in Perugia on the assault on the policewoman charge. Why would he be denied entrance at Sea Tac? If he ever did show up? He didn't even inform his lawyer of his 'difficulties' and she was overheard yelling over the phone at him for his no show. That's why I doubt he'll show in Florence, but if you want to blame Ergon for that, be my guest. I have broad shoulders :)



I'll tell you exactly why Sforza was denied entry into the States. He told them at customs that he was a journalist for Oggi Magazine. Only, his visa was the standard visa under the US/Italy visa waver program. Journalists aren't allowed to enter the States with that visa, but instead must have a special visa applied for and filled out by their media employer. So, his entry was denied.


Yeah, I remember sending frank visa info that specifically states journalists were not allowed to work. He could not remember that? That is with the visa waiver program. He is not so bright.
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Posts: 615

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Bruce is like a bad rash that will not go away. It serves him right for not releasing that info to his own flock. They are very confusing over there. I know the truth is simple and does not change. oi

Great conversation everybody.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Tamale wrote:
Yeah, I remember sending frank visa info that specifically states journalists were not allowed to work. He could not remember that? That is with the visa waiver program. He is not so bright.



Call me Mr Cynical, but I think Frank knew exactly what he was doing. I believe, and this is just my personal opinion, that Frank did it deliberately in order to sabotage his ability to enter the States so he didn't have to attend court and face potential consequences, whilst also creating a (very lame) excuse for not attending. I simply don't believe he had any intention of attending his hearing. My opinion here, is based on Frank Sforza'a known track record of court evasion, in addition to the fact that he's a conniving, lying, slippery little fecker.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon, another declaration of love to you from Mr Fisher on Ground Report. ;)
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Ergon, another declaration of love to you from Mr Fisher on Ground Report. ;)


The groupies don't realise that their constant smearing of others makes them look bad. I've read the lengthy article and besides being boring, it does not contain anything of importance.

Bad timing too, just between the release of the two original unedited 112 phone calls and the imminent release of the translation of the Supreme Court sentencing report from .org.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
A couple of more quotes from the Sollecito interview on Daybreak:

Quote:
"The counsel, the detectives and prosecution [are responsible] and they didn't want to change along the way."


IB TIMES

Sollecito slams ‘ridiculous retrial’

Quote:
Speaking on the breakfast show ... Sollecito said: “It’s kind of ridiculous to me because in a system you don’t need hundreds of trials. You need just one trial and then if there are mistakes of course you can appeal for a review of the trial.”

He said that, while he felt “compassion” for the Kercher family he urged them not to “stand by a prosecution theory that makes no sense”.


THE LOCAL


Sollecito was quoted by someone on Twitter as saying that Amanda Knox was Meredith closest friend when she died. Can someone confirm this? I have not seen the interview.


It's at approx. '6:30 and "the closest person" (not friend), in case you haven't watched it yet.
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Ergon, another declaration of love to you from Mr Fisher on Ground Report. ;)


The groupies don't realise that their constant smearing of others makes them look bad. I've read the lengthy article and besides being boring, it does not contain anything of importance.

Bad timing too, just between the release of the two original unedited 112 phone calls and the imminent release of the translation of the Supreme Court sentencing report from .org.


Maybe he's jealous that no one important is emailing him.
It's too bad (although understandable) Ergon can't be in Florence to cover the trial!
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
A couple of more quotes from the Sollecito interview on Daybreak:

Quote:
"The counsel, the detectives and prosecution [are responsible] and they didn't want to change along the way."


IB TIMES

Sollecito slams ‘ridiculous retrial’

Quote:
Speaking on the breakfast show ... Sollecito said: “It’s kind of ridiculous to me because in a system you don’t need hundreds of trials. You need just one trial and then if there are mistakes of course you can appeal for a review of the trial.”

He said that, while he felt “compassion” for the Kercher family he urged them not to “stand by a prosecution theory that makes no sense”.


THE LOCAL


Sollecito was quoted by someone on Twitter as saying that Amanda Knox was Meredith closest friend when she died. Can someone confirm this? I have not seen the interview.


It's at approx. '6:30 and "the closest person" (not friend), in case you haven't watched it yet.


Hi Ava,

Thank you! i haven't watched the interview yet, but will do so on the weekend.

It is an interesting statement from Sollecito who knew Amanda Knox only for a week or so before the murder. All of Meredith's real friends including her Italian roommates said their relationship had deteriorated before her death and that the reason was Amanda's unsocial behaviour.

I find it disturbing how the defendants insist Meredith and Knox where close or even friends.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
Michael wrote:
guermantes wrote:
dgfred,

did you watch the Hardtalk interview? Next rebroadcast is at 9:30pm (London time) or 4:30pm EDT. What a creep Sollecito is. Stephen Sackur asked him harder questions than the usual "soft" interviewer; I'll give him that. Sollecito looked and sounded unconvincing.

Oh, and Sollecito said that he couldn't disclose the amount he was paid for his book. He has to keep it "private", lest his supporters stop lionizing him and sending him money.



So many lies. Just for starters, he told Sackur that Amanda had been at the police station for five hours the night of the 5th, and that's why she started doing cartwheels, to losen up because she'd been there for so long. They didn't arrive at the police station until 10:15 at the earliest and Knox was doing cartwheels, splits and stretches just before 11 pm, so inside 45 minutes. Five hours!!! Why do "innocent" people need to tell so many lies over and over in their defence? The short answer is that innocent people don't, only the guilty do.


Same as our old debates at InSession and Websleuths Michael. We post the facts and ALL the problems with her actions and statements. The groupies argue each piece like it has nothing to do with the other pieces.
We would destroy each argument... then they would just move to the next one and do the same things.

stup-)


That is why engaging them is mostly a waste of time. The Groupies are too stupid to understand independent events and probability and they also will never understand any of the arguments that require a basic understanding of science. If you are going to engage them you have to do it for the benefit of whoever else might be reading. As such pick where you put your efforts in based on that. Going over to IIP to debate with them is a waste of time. Nobody except the Groupies read that. Likewise no point getting into comment wars on GroundReport because no one reads that. Best allocation of time is to engage them in comments sections of popular sites and make them look like the fools they are.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
A couple of more quotes from the Sollecito interview on Daybreak:

Quote:
"The counsel, the detectives and prosecution [are responsible] and they didn't want to change along the way."


IB TIMES

Sollecito slams ‘ridiculous retrial’

Quote:
Speaking on the breakfast show ... Sollecito said: “It’s kind of ridiculous to me because in a system you don’t need hundreds of trials. You need just one trial and then if there are mistakes of course you can appeal for a review of the trial.”

He said that, while he felt “compassion” for the Kercher family he urged them not to “stand by a prosecution theory that makes no sense”.


THE LOCAL


Sollecito was quoted by someone on Twitter as saying that Amanda Knox was Meredith closest friend when she died. Can someone confirm this? I have not seen the interview.


He does say that. He says Knox was the closest person to Meredith when she died. Presumably he means in friendship although the statement would likely be truer if he meant physically close.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Ergon, another declaration of love to you from Mr Fisher on Ground Report. ;)


The groupies don't realise that their constant smearing of others makes them look bad.


Of course not. The Groupies are mostly trash. For them this is normal behavior.

Also it isn't like they can really look worse. A large portion of them can't help but make racists comments. One of them is some weirdo obsessed with Anne Hathaway. That Guilter Watching thing is the work of someone with serious mental issues. The males go off on insane rants where they declare war and threaten people with physical violence which besides being really funny when you see what they look like is nevertheless something only a mentally disturbed person would do. This is the biggest bunch of losers you could imagine. With the exception of a couple of lawyers who seem to have extracted all their legal knowledge from watching TV nobody on IIP has anything that resembles a career or fulfilling personal life.

This is what makes Bruce somewhat interesting because he is just your plain opportunist and while he isn't the sharpest knife he is far ahead of all his members. He has to be tempted to nuke all the posts that make it obvious his little band of losers are insane but he also knows if he does he'll have no band at all.


Quote:
I've read the lengthy article and besides being boring, it does not contain anything of importance.


Haven't read it. Not going to read it. More importantly either is anyone else. I've posted the readership numbers for Ground Report a few times. Nobody reads that site. The fact that the site is dead is the only reason they allow the Groupies to post their rants. The few times they have tried to move to other citizen journalism sites their rants get nuked and they get told to not post again.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
A couple of more quotes from the Sollecito interview on Daybreak:

Quote:
"The counsel, the detectives and prosecution [are responsible] and they didn't want to change along the way."


IB TIMES

Sollecito slams ‘ridiculous retrial’

Quote:
Speaking on the breakfast show ... Sollecito said: “It’s kind of ridiculous to me because in a system you don’t need hundreds of trials. You need just one trial and then if there are mistakes of course you can appeal for a review of the trial.”

He said that, while he felt “compassion” for the Kercher family he urged them not to “stand by a prosecution theory that makes no sense”.


THE LOCAL


Sollecito was quoted by someone on Twitter as saying that Amanda Knox was Meredith closest friend when she died. Can someone confirm this? I have not seen the interview.


He does say that. He says Knox was the closest person to Meredith when she died. Presumably he means in friendship although the statement would likely be truer if he meant physically close.


Amanda Knox and her family (and now even Sollecito) insisting vehemently Meredith and Knox were friends indicates the truth about their relationship would give a clue about the motive behind the crime and Knox is afraid of that, hence the lie.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Posting a response to Brucie on Ground Report today :)
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Amanda Knox and her family (and now even Sollecito) insisting vehemently Meredith and Knox were friends indicates the truth about their relationship would give a clue about the motive behind the crime and Knox is afraid of that, hence the lie.


Knox is an oblivious narcissist so she has and always will have trouble making friends. Look at Knox's best friend and you have a human troll. Those are the only type of people who will put up with Knox's personality. Meredith would had no time for Knox and that is evident from her constantly shooting down Knox's requests to do something and then feeling bad about it because she realizes Knox is a loser and you just feel pity for people like that. Knox was annoying and a terrible roommate but beyond that I don't believe Meredith had any animosity towards Knox.

Knox on the other hand had a thing for Giacomo but he choose Meredith. Got fired from a job where her boss prefered Meredith. Meredith's friends all thought Knox was trash and did not want her around and Meredith who at first did spend time with her was now rejecting her. This is a lot of rejection for a narcissist. I still don't think anything would have come of it if Knox had not hooked up with a psychopath.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
Nell wrote:
Amanda Knox and her family (and now even Sollecito) insisting vehemently Meredith and Knox were friends indicates the truth about their relationship would give a clue about the motive behind the crime and Knox is afraid of that, hence the lie.


Knox is an oblivious narcissist so she has and always will have trouble making friends. Look at Knox's best friend and you have a human troll. Those are the only type of people who will put up with Knox's personality. Meredith would had no time for Knox and that is evident from her constantly shooting down Knox's requests to do something and then feeling bad about it because she realizes Knox is a loser and you just feel pity for people like that. Knox was annoying and a terrible roommate but beyond that I don't believe Meredith had any animosity towards Knox.

Knox on the other hand had a thing for Giacomo but he choose Meredith. Got fired from a job where her boss prefered Meredith. Meredith's friends all thought Knox was trash and did not want her around and Meredith who at first did spend time with her was now rejecting her. This is a lot of rejection for a narcissist. I still don't think anything would have come of it if Knox had not hooked up with a psychopath.


I agree with every word you say.

I can and will not forget how Amanda Knox lashed out against Meredith in her email. She was incapable of feeling empathy for her brutally slain "friend", mostly talking about herself, and she had a dig at her. Her comment about the menstrual blood was not only unrealistic because Meredith would not have left the bathroom dirty, but to talk about it as menstrual blood, at that moment when Knox wrote her email she was fully aware that it stemmed from fatal stab wounds, is inappropriate.

It is not only very unusual, imo it is sick to say or write something like this.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:29 pm   Post subject: REPLY TO BRUCE FISCHER ON GROUND REPORT   

Amanda Knox's PR minion Bruce Fischer posted a "Ground Report" article about me which really is an attack on PM Giuliano Mignini: Ground Report

My response:

Quote:
Funny how Bruce Fischer, who has been embarrassed so many times by my investigative reporting about the case, can't seem to make up his mind: Is he trying to smear me for my admittedly esoteric views, or just trying once again, to smear PM Giuliano Mignini with tired old guilt by association tactics on behalf of Amanda Knox? But then, that's what you do.

For the record, Mignini has never once given me information related to the case. Everything I have reported is either public information, or leaks from your own organization, much as you would like to deny that. But I can see why you're still 'fishing' for my sources :)

For the record, I have never discussed my personal spiritual views with Giuliano Mignini. Outside of your hothouse of demented Knox groupies, normal people might ask, what has this got to do with the case?

For the record, I met PM Mignini once, at his office in Perugia in March, and wrote about our meeting at the time, which you well know. I presented myself as a citizen reporter, much as what you claim Francesco Sforza is. No, he is not 'obsessed' with the occult, and I, who am interested in it, tell you we did not discuss it. Nor are we 'in communication'.

I made full public disclosure about my websites before I got involved in the case years ago, and some people on both sides, funny enough, made an issue about it, and most ignored it. All of this information has been publicly available since then, on my websites. So why is it important now?

Funny also how this becomes big news as your client/object of fixation has an appeal coming up.
Funny how this becomes news after I post full copies of Raffaele Sollecito's 112 calls to the police which shows he was lying.
Funny how this becomes news when, trying to find whether Francesco Sforza was charged with calunnia or defamation, I go directly to the source and post his reply. You, distort and smear. But that is what you do.
Funny how you have consistently lied about and hidden the facts of this case. Is it a challenge for your followers to acknowledge that and see where you are coming from?
And again, funny how this comes out just as the translation of the Cassazione ruling against Knox and Sollecito is about to be published.

I guess so, as your group goes around culling information and photos of every one that disagrees with you and post them on your site in an effort to intimidate. You can comment about me, but private individuals?

Since you posted this publicly, instead of your obscure little forum, I will point out the following. For someone aspiring to defend the Innocent (a worthy cause) your tactics have not been worthy. No wonder you have no impact, outside in the real world, and your group has no chance whatsoever of gaining charitable status or becoming a non-profit. Do you really think any media organization will touch you once the full extent of the Knoxes tactics become widely available? Any genuine Innocence Project? We who defend Meredith Kercher's cause will disband once justice has been done. I will probably be gone once the Italian system rules. You, on the other hand, have what to look forward to?

I can easily defend myself, as I have proved over and over again. I can debate with honest people, so if I have refused to er, 'debate' with you in the past, it has much to do with your fragrant hypocrisy. And I say "fragrant" deliberately :)

But it is your efforts to smear an honest public servant that I despise, and oppose you on. Now I've responded to you, please note: I'm not interested in 'debating' people who use pack-hyena tactics. Try very hard not to distract people with irrelevancies. You made accusations not against me, but Giuliano Mignini, yet nothing you say or do will affect the outcome of this appeal

Deal with it.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nicely done E.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:56 pm   Post subject: LAST POST ON THE SUBJECT HERE   

I hope :)

Quote:
Your 'article' is a distortion of everything I have written, but nice try. Go ahead and preach to your own choir.
We have backed up everything we wrote about you and your website on Perugia Murder File, (Dot Net and Org) which any one can read there, instead of your cherry picked obfuscations here.
Why did you remove the allegations against your source "Frank Sfarzo" within an hour of it appearing on your site? I credit Divine Providence :) that I happened to be there and saved the information, and if that embarrassed you, too bad.
Do you deny that you organized 'donations' (total well over $10,000) for your source and tried to hide the record of assault charges in three separate jurisdictions? That you allowed a rape victim's name to be posted on your website in an attempt to intimidate and cover up? That you allowed Frank to post allegations that his main supporter, a 70 yr old Canadian gentleman, felt so threatened by his behaviour after being refused a further $25,000 'loan' he had to call the police? Then that the gentleman had tried to 'molest' him, and he was drunk?
Funny how that is a 'personal matter', but my spiritual views, are not?
Now, I have said pretty much what I need to say, and now, I do not intend to feed the troll further.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

If it wasn't for the fact that this story is about the horrific murder of a young woman, the irony of this massive fail, public relations-wise would almost be funny.

Think about it. Think about it as if you were a member of the general public, who had no hard-formed opinion one way or another about what happened. Even lean towards innocence, if you choose. Now, the book "Honor Bound" hits the stands. Remember, think of it from a srandpoint of innocence. This innocent man spent 4 years in prison for the simple reason that he wouldn't roll over on his lady friend of 9 days. He alone stood in the path of the oncoming bus, and took one for the team for her. He says this, loud and clear in his book. HE SAVED HER.

So, then she comes out with a book, and ALL she wants to talk about is her naive, silly self, seeking to explore her sexuality, and the names and numbers of her partners are basically immaterial to her narrative. She negates or minimizes Sollecito's importance to her, with every breath she takes, every sentence out of her mouth.

How would you expect the public to react? America is waiting with bated breath to hear from the other half of this lovestruck duo, and all we get is me, me, me? In terms of innocence, she would come off as an ungrateful, selfish bitch.

No tearful thank you, thank you, thank you. No public reunion where America can see them together, both victims of the evil corruption of the entire Italian populace, no longer lovers, but forged together like teammates in the Hunger Games.

And here he is, back on television, still pitching his side of the story which now makes even less sense, and is even more distasteful, because he no longer can relate to that young woman he's talking about, because she's ovbiously moved on and away.

The irony of the entire mess is that they're still telling different stories.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
.....
I can and will not forget how Amanda Knox lashed out against Meredith in her email. She was incapable of feeling empathy for her brutally slain "friend", mostly talking about herself, and she had a dig at her. Her comment about the menstrual blood was not only unrealistic because Meredith would not have left the bathroom dirty, but to talk about it as menstrual blood, at that moment when Knox wrote her email she was fully aware that it stemmed from fatal stab wounds, is inappropriate.
It is not only very unusual, imo it is sick to say or write something like this.


I agree, Nell. Funny how Raffaele is saying now that it was Amanda who was menstruating the night of the final interview and the police 'wouldn't let her rest'? What an undignified group of people.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I just want to say, attacking Ergon for his spiritual beliefs is simply testament to the nastiness of those who run Amanda Knox's campaign (and with Knox and her family's full endorsement).

Let me point something out. There are those who follow this case, on both sides, whose spiritual beliefs include the belief that: The World was created in seven days, it was created not much over 4000 years ago (plus some change), that everyone in the World is mean and naughty because some chick ate an apple and it's all her (and all that of women collectively) fault, that people crashed down the walls of Jericho with a golden box, that a bloke who refused to go on a journey was swallowed by a whale and taken to his destination by force, that another guy's mullet gave him the strength to pull down a temple with his bare hands, that another dude went racing around the sky on a chariot, that a woman had a baby whilst a virgin, along with many other strange things. Some of these people believe they can speak in tongues and that they have a direct line to the Creator of the Universe. These people are called Christians. Jews and Muslims also believe in many of those things.

Therefore, is Bruce Fischer going to smear Christian, Jewish and Muslim people online for their spiritual beliefs too? Of course not, because Fischer and his followers wouldn't consider that acceptable. Why then, is it acceptable to publicly smear and ridicule Ergon for his spiritual beliefs? Because they are not endorsed by one of the established Churches and so he doesn't have a "union" and is therefore, fair game?

Or maybe, it's really because all the time they are attacking people like Ergon and making the debate about him, or Mignini or some other Joe, the conversation is no longer about the evidence against Amanda Knox and the Tape Worm Knife Boy!!!

Soon, Org is publishing a real translation of the High Court Report and shortly after that, the re-Appeal begins. Bruce Fischer and his sleazy entourage can rest assured that we will be talking about the case against Knox and Sollecito and ILE technical matters, not whether Ergon prefers pendulums or dowsing rods. So, if I were Bruce Fischer, I'd start worrying about the two 'Little Angels' instead of Mignini, who is not even involved in the process in Florence, or Ergon. Fischer's nasty little post about Ergon and Dr. Mignini says far more about Bruce Fischer then it does about those he targets in it, in any case!!!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

And whilst we're on the subject of spiritual matters, I thought I'd throw this in as on-topic.

Several thousand years ago, an Israelite King was shocked to witness a disembodied hand appear and write upon the wall of his palace. Shortly after, he lost his crown and his life. A few thousand years later, the writing is also on the wall for Knox and Sollecito! We know this, they know this and their followers know this. Nothing will change this truth, no matter what they do to try and prevent Karma and Natural Law from catching up with them.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

We are all spiritual people, though I respect the views of those that prefer the certainties of the rational mind :)

But one thing I hope we all will do one day, is reflect on the spiritual messages that each of us got through our working for justice, and the spirit of Meredith Kercher that touched us all. I am not going to dwell on the likes of those that ridiculed John Kercher's belief that his murdered daughter communicated with him; each of us has had a 'white feather' moment we will always treasure.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
We are all spiritual people, though I respect the views of those that prefer the certainties of the rational mind :)

But one thing I hope we all will do one day, is reflect on the spiritual messages that each of us got through our working for justice, and the spirit of Meredith Kercher that touched us all. I am not going to dwell on the likes of those that ridiculed John Kercher's belief that his murdered daughter communicated with him; each of us has had a 'white feather' moment we will always treasure.


Lol. I personally prefer the certainties of the rational mind, but the spiritual aspects just won't cooperate and stay out of things!!!
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Offline Sparkles


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Ergon wrote:
We are all spiritual people, though I respect the views of those that prefer the certainties of the rational mind :)

But one thing I hope we all will do one day, is reflect on the spiritual messages that each of us got through our working for justice, and the spirit of Meredith Kercher that touched us all. I am not going to dwell on the likes of those that ridiculed John Kercher's belief that his murdered daughter communicated with him; each of us has had a 'white feather' moment we will always treasure.


Lol. I personally prefer the certainties of the rational mind, but the spiritual aspects just won't cooperate and stay out of things!!!


Hmmm - just read the rantings of the irrational on groundreport. Completely unsurprising. What is also unsurprising that these people choose to attack to in an attempt to silence the truth. I thought that Ergons response was excellent and very restrained given the nature of the very public personal attack.

I for one think that someone's personal beliefs are just that and they are to be respected not used as a basis to ridicule. Spirit is within all of us. Spirituality is at its heart about self belief and doing the right thing for this right reasons. If these people were Spiritual then they would understand that the light of creation lies all within everyone and it is a beautiful thing. It is Love and we are all connected because we share the same essence.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
Nicely done E.


Ditto on that Ergon. Let' see what they come up with next. They sure do seem to be dancing real fast over there....
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

pp-( pp-(
Napia5 wrote:
Ergon wrote:
We are all spiritual people, though I respect the views of those that prefer the certainties of the rational mind :)

But one thing I hope we all will do one day, is reflect on the spiritual messages that each of us got through our working for justice, and the spirit of Meredith Kercher that touched us all. I am not going to dwell on the likes of those that ridiculed John Kercher's belief that his murdered daughter communicated with him; each of us has had a 'white feather' moment we will always treasure.


Lol. I personally prefer the certainties of the rational mind, but the spiritual aspects just won't cooperate and stay out of things!!!
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
And whilst we're on the subject of spiritual matters, I thought I'd throw this in as on-topic.

Several thousand years ago, an Israelite King was shocked to witness a disembodied hand appear and write upon the wall of his palace. Shortly after, he lost his crown and his life. A few thousand years later, the writing is also on the wall for Knox and Sollecito! We know this, they know this and their followers know this. Nothing will change this truth, no matter what they do to try and prevent Karma and Natural Law from catching up with them.


I know this, why? Because I read the writing on the wall. RIP Meredith
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Just copying this over from Nell, since she's using her tablet and that makes it a little awkward:

Nell wrote:
FYI

There is a real shit storm going on at Bruce Fischer's forum. His members are asking why he never uploaded the two 112 calls if they were indeed on Frank's flash drive and they are asking for their own transcripts and translations.

Member Annella has asked Bruce to upload the phone calls to IIP so that people don't have to visit our site to get them. Bruce responds these calls are nothing new and he doubts a translation will reveal much at this point, but *sigh* he will upload them to keep her happy.

Then there is Dexter, who I am beginning to like. He has posted so much in the past few hours calling Bruce Fischer a liar that I don't think he will last. It is about Frank Sfarzo. Ergon's post has been quoted on IA and it is further proof that we are working for Mignini.

Dexter reminds everyone of Sfarzogate and insists he wants to see the signed arrest warrant. Bruce backtracks even further by saying not only has he never said to have seen the warrant, he now knows it does not exist! Further he tells Dexter to stop debating on his forum if he is unable to recognise that Sfarzo is a victim.

I should add that Dexter also questions Sollecito's credibility and has started arguing about the bleach. He wanted to know why there was confusion about the maid saying she does not use bleach, but new bottles of bleach were found under the sink in Sollecito's apartment.

Regarding Bruce Fischer and his credibility, Dexter keeps asking the right questions.

It should be noted that Reverend Stuart Lyster aka Bill Williams is a huge Sfarzo/Fischer defender against all facts and better knowledge. It's fascinating to watch.

I noted that Rose found a reason to defend Sfarzo nonetheless. According to her we have to look at his writing about the case and him hitting and stealing from others separately. She will keep supporting him, she says.

I would like to see it....Bruce?
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Offline tamale


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 pm

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Tamale wrote:
Yeah, I remember sending frank visa info that specifically states journalists were not allowed to work. He could not remember that? That is with the visa waiver program. He is not so bright.



Call me Mr Cynical, but I think Frank knew exactly what he was doing. I believe, and this is just my personal opinion, that Frank did it deliberately in order to sabotage his ability to enter the States so he didn't have to attend court and face potential consequences, whilst also creating a (very lame) excuse for not attending. I simply don't believe he had any intention of attending his hearing. My opinion here, is based on Frank Sforza'a known track record of court evasion, in addition to the fact that he's a conniving, lying, slippery little fecker.


I would not disagree with you...the guy carries false ID that says his name is Sforca.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

False ID? What next? Getting his aunt to collect his 'donations' through her PAYPAL account? Getting caught shoplifting. Scratching and biting like a girl? (Sorry, ladies :)
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Star in Amanda Knox Murder Trial Drama “The Face of an Angel”
September 6, 2013 | Posted by Linda Ge in Casting
http://upandcomers.net/2013/09/06/danie ... -an-angel/

The director said previously, “I have no view on whether they did it, the film will not be about that. There is unlikely to be a character playing Knox.”
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael Winterbottom girerà a Siena ''The Face of Angel'', il film su Amanda Knox
Venerdì 06 Settembre 2013 11:13
Il famoso regista inglese è stato ricevuto dal sindaco Valentini e dall’assessore Pallai

http://www.sienafree.it/eventi-e-spetta ... manda-knox
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks, Ava, for the link(s). Jools has translated this online article for us:

Michael Winterbottom will be shooting in Siena'' The Face of an Angel'', a film about Amanda Knox
The famous British director has been received by the Mayor Valentini and the Councillor Pallai

September 6, 2013 - The Mayor Bruno Valentini and Tourism Councillor Sonia Pallai met the British director Michael Winterbottom (“Butterfly Kiss,” “Welcome to Sarajevo,” “Code 46,” “Wonderland,” “24 Hour Party People”), who will be in Siena, in the months of November and December to shoot “the Face of an Angel,” the movie about the murder of Meredith Kercher in Perugia and centered on the figure of Amanda Knox.

The meeting was attended by Guglielmo Turbanti, responsible for the film commission office of the City of Siena, and Elisa Favilli from “The Toscana Film Commission” of the region. “We appreciate - said Valentini – the high approval from The Film Commission “for the speed with which we have activated the filming permits/assistance/ procedure. We believe this can be one of the areas that help promote our city as a destination.”

The meeting was followed by a visit to the city Museum and the Rinnovati Theater, possible locations of the film, which has already obtained the financial help of the regional cinema fund.

The city administration has given full availability for the production of the project and within the next few days the offices will be available to the director and the production team. As Pallai highlighted: “Being able to have a production during these winter months may represent, in a period of low season, an important contribution to our local businesses and subsequently the film's release, a great value for the employment generated.”


http://www.valdelsa.net/det-cy32-it-EUR-56794-.htm

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=141813#p141813
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Channel 5 Documentary to Investigate Meredith Kercher Murder

Channel 5 is to look at the Amanda Knox retrial with documentary Knox on Trial: The Key Questions.
...
To help Channel 5 have brought together two of the finest minds in the Italian legal system; Fulvia Guardascione: an Italian born criminal lawyer with a case history ranging from rape and theft to armed robbery and murder who will be arguing for the prosecution. Whilst taking the case for the defence will be Alexander Guttieres, a no-nonsense Americo-Italian criminal litigator with over 30 years in court.


http://www.atvtoday.co.uk/p43834-ch5/
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The podcast of the Sollecito HARDtalk interview has been uploaded to the BBC World Service website, if you want to listen to his voice without having to look at his lying face:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/ht

I've saved the audio file for our archives and will post it later in the Media reference thread HERE.

If anyone is interested in detecting signs of deception in his facial expressions:

Why your face can't lie: The uncontrollable tell-tale signs of deceit in high-stakes deceptions

'Specifically, the 'grief' muscles, the corrugator supercilli - located around the eyebrow - and depressor anguli oris - between the chin and corner of the lips - were more often contracted in the faces of 'genuine' rather than 'deceptive pleaders', researchers from the University of British Columbia found.

They found subtle contraction of the zygomatic major - which runs from cheekbone to the mouth - activated during masking smiles, and full contraction of the frontalis - the brow - which flexed during failed attempts to appear sad, 'were more commonly identified in the faces of deceptive pleaders'.

The study said: ‘During the critical lie, told by each deceptive murderer, upper face surprise and lower face happiness were likely to be expressed, attributed to the failed attempt to appear sad and leakage of happiness.


DAILY MAIL

Surprise?

Attachment:
Raffale Sollecito awaits retrial.jpg


Happiness?

Attachment:
Sollecito on ITV's Daybreak Sep 3 2013.jpg


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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thank you for those clear shots of surprise and happiness. Reminds me of Amanda's tell tale face with Diane. This interview was reminiscent of Couric's where Sollecito at times drops his easy going dopey stance with the interviewer and cuts him off impatiently .
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi malvern,

here is another article about the same study and a short video on how to spot deception by observing the eyebrows:

How to spot a liar: the hint of a smile and raised eyebrows

The team from the University of British Columbia, in Canada, concluded that liars were betrayed by tiny movements that caused them to raise their eyebrows in surprised expressions and smile slightly.

Innocent people, meanwhile, tended to furrow their brow in genuine “expressions of distress”, they found.


THE TELEGRAPH

Lies - it's the eyebrows, not the eyes



Amanda Knox does this all the time, esp. in this interview with Markus Lanz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8oTTudT_mA
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Also: Genuine facial expressions are almost always symmetrical.

Quote:
Six of the seven core emotions are displayed genuinely with symmetrical expressions on the face. What this means is that if a colleague shows signs of surprise on just one side of her face, chances are she already knew what you just told her.


LIESPOTTING

That explains Sollecito's crooked smile / weird smirk. ;)

Attachment:
Sollecito on Today We're innocent.JPG


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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

All of these interviews fall under the heading of bizarre, IMO. I cannot imagine circumstances where an attorney would advise his or her client that it is sensible to subject themselves to questioning about an ongoing murder case. And, I cannot imagine a client who would go against his or her attorney's wishes if they were told to keep quiet.

So, do the attorneys approve? Or are the defendants just plain not listening? This doesn't make sense to me either way.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I like this quote very much:

Writing and talk do not prove me,
I carry the plenum of proof and everything else in my face


—Walt Whitman, “Song of Myself”

Writing - their books
Talk - their interviews

Their faces tell it all...
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The new media campaign has started ...


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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

And there is more. Twitter user @GuilterWatching (currently suspended) send the same link to 39 people in the media and politics.


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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:49 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Well, if any journalist bothers to contact me for my side of the story they know where to find me :)
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:46 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Well, if any journalist bothers to contact me for my side of the story they know where to find me :)


I suspect that journalists that do their homework are not in their contact list Ergon.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:18 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Twitter user @GuilterWatching had his account suspended and has created a new one, hijacking Ergon's username.

He also was so kind to open a blog in his name and create a profile on the internet under Ergon's real name which lists him as "gay", "overweight" and other nicesities.

Hard to believe we are dealing with an adult here.

Of course he has already three followers who approve of his behaviour: @Noel, @Annella and Bruce Fischer from @NJusticAnywhere.


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Offline jeffski


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:29 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi guys,

Don't post much these days but I am a constant follower of events on .net .org & TJMK. I would just like to say a big thank you to every one who has contributed over the years to these great forums, with help in translations, with posting links to articles to discussing/debating the many aspects of this sad sad case. Many of you have been vital in rebuffing and stopping the tidal wave of false and misleading information spread by the family/PR and of course the crazed groupies.

Many have like myself came in for some very unsavoury attention,some a lot worse than others from certain immature childish people from the dark side. All I can say is they are becoming more desperate by the day as the 30th approaches ( as Nell's post above shows ). If they really think that by linking such vulgar low readership sites like ground report and IIP are going to have any influence on the appeal, they are truly deluded individuals.

All they have are insults/smears and lies lies and more lies.

We are all here for one thing and one thing alone.

JUSTICE FOR MEREDITH KERCHER.
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Offline jeffski


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Twitter user @GuilterWatching had his account suspended and has created a new one, hijacking Ergon's username.

He also was so kind to open a blog in his name and create a profile on the internet under Ergon's real name which lists him as "gay", "overweight" and other nicesities.

Hard to believe we are dealing with an adult here.

Of course he has already three followers who approve of his behaviour: @Noel, @Annella and Bruce Fischer from @NJusticAnywhere.


Despicable and revolting behaviour that we have all unfortunately become accustomed to by this childish and weird bunch of misfits that pass themselves off as injustice crusaders.

More like a cult of basement dwellers with no semblance of a normal life. IMHO.
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Offline zorba


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Posting a response to Brucie on Ground Report today :)



I'm with Mc on this.

It struck me that right after Mc had just explained how HE felt about engaging and encouraging such people, you came along right after and posted YOUR thing(s), which I hope one day you stopabou that other site and the c there

My opinion is that you actively encourage these people, by paying attention to them but more, writing about he said this then she said that, all the time here, it was as though you did not read what he wrote.

Placing oneself on some kind of self-appoinrted pedastal, good intentions no matter, is not good gfor the matter, the matter being Meredith's murder.

I cannot read all of that stuff that you take over this site with Ergon, from that other place I've never ever visited out of principle and because I don't suffer fools, but I'm sorry, I think you suffer fools on a grand scale and force everyone else to be busy with what you are busy with. If I offer my own opinion, and not being nasty, I noticed you either ignore me or say something that I have at times found nasty and knew was simply your inability to accept criticism.

With that good day and do what thou wilt if you don't harm anyone else but I do feel hurt to have to keep hearing dayt in and day out about these total fucking shitheads.

Why don't you just do your thing and stop forcing everyone else to be dragged into whs you are into?

I guess I know the answer, it is not going to end,.

As you are going to declare that all of thios is vital for justice,only thing is you are not the judge the police, you are Mr Ergon on a board. With ipiniobns like edveryone else has.. a right to.

I only read a little about your stuff, your books and bedliefs, good luck with that, but this board should never be used as a springboard in any game play about commercial things, I just hopw you are not promoting your stuff here through this board. Only you know the honest answer to that but if you forever bring it up, people can get messages/signs that make them feel uncomfortable.

This board to me feels like a direct extension, sometimes, from other sites what are to me totally irrelevant sites with the nastiest persons imaginable frequenting them, what in the world from there is going to help the case in Florence? Nothing that's what, all as this attention giving does is divert the site away from meaningful things.


And as Fez said in that 70s Show... I say good day ... I said good day, good daaaay

_________________
Ignorantia juris non excusa ~
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Zorba I hear what you are saying but I have to disagree. Ergon is a spiritual person who has has contributed to this board in a very factual way. It would seem that the trip to Perugia inspired him to share some of his very inner thoughts. I think that was a rare occurrence and I don't feel he pushes his beliefs. In fact I think he uses humour when he realizes he has shared something personal that others would find hard to believe. The murder of Meredith touches us on many deep levels and sometimes we need to express that. I do share your frustration that the other side has taken what they find to be a door of opportunity and run with it. I think the latest Ground Report and Bruce's support of this manfromatlansite is ugly and predictable. They were created to discredit Ergon's hard work, because it is that good when it comes to bringing information to the board. Bruce's Injustice site needs to at least pretend tp be inclusive ,the racial undertones , the cheered abuse of Bettina and now attacking personal spirituality are contrary to his mission statement. I do appreciate your no nonsense fearless posts and find that kind of honesty part of what makes a collective board valid.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

From whom then, shall I accept the truth? And what then, shall be the truth?

Shall I accept it only from a man, dressed in Sunday best, with no political or religious bent?

Shall I even allow it to BE a man, as I may suspect him, being a woman and all?

Shall I accept the truth from only those who are white, as I, and believe that only those who are colored in like fashion will bring me the absolute truth?

And, in accepting the truth, shall I ignore the lie? Should I turn away from it, and pretend that it doesn't exist, and hope that ignorance will cause it to blow away, dry in the dust? Do I clutch the light, quiet in my own home, and simply hope that others will somehow stumble upon it?

Or, should I consider the fact that, because I carry the light of truth, it is my duty to shine the light, bright in the darkness, to light the way for others, seeking a way from the darkness?

What good at all is the truth if it is shared quietly as a meal to only those who have already eaten.

One can best feed the hungry by going out amongst those who hunger most. It serves scant purpose to serve it up at your own table and simply hope that someone shows up.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

OT picture of the day. Baby bear playing in flower field:

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BPz09GzCUAAEjpo.jpg:large

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Bruce Fischer must have come to the conclusion that his association to the new fake account is unbecoming, so he "unfollowed" GuilterWatching.


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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jeffski wrote:
Nell wrote:
Twitter user @GuilterWatching had his account suspended and has created a new one, hijacking Ergon's username.

He also was so kind to open a blog in his name and create a profile on the internet under Ergon's real name which lists him as "gay", "overweight" and other nicesities.

Hard to believe we are dealing with an adult here.

Of course he has already three followers who approve of his behaviour: @Noel, @Annella and Bruce Fischer from @NJusticAnywhere.


Despicable and revolting behaviour that we have all unfortunately become accustomed to by this childish and weird bunch of misfits that pass themselves off as injustice crusaders.

More like a cult of basement dwellers with no semblance of a normal life. IMHO.


I couldn't agree more with you.

It surprises me that there are people who find this appealing or amusing.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Joining in and supporting prejudice against homosexuals is not a wise move, adding to his inability to be inclusive.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just got this Tweet:

harryrag ‏@harryrag 59s
The English translation of the Supreme Court's judgment will be available for download on Monday, September 9, 2013 at 0:01 am Rome time.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

This announcement has just been made on .org:

Quote:
Translation news: The English translation of the Supreme Court's judgment, which you have all waited for so patiently, will be available as promised on Monday, September 9, 2013 at 0:01 am Rome time.


One minute after midnight? Is there any symbolism behind that? ;)

I just looked at my calendar and saw that it's a Grandparents' Day today. Congratulations to Napia5! :) Thanks for the OT picture, Michael. We should all relax a little and feel as happy as that baby bear on a near-perfect day like today - it's a bright and sunny and beautiful Sunday in my part of the world.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

@zorba, I respectfully disagree. Where do I push my views to the membership here? Yet, as someone who never was anonymous, has been attacked relentlessly? I've never asked for your or anyone's support, and can handle myself very well.
But since you bring this up, do you think their behavior should not be exposed? Posting people's pictures on the internet? (I am not complaining for myself, there are many people who have been harassed)

But let me tell you this. I am done censoring myself because I am an admin of this site. I am a spiritual person, first, and I have spiritual views. As I suppose many others do, and I intend to express, not, my personal spiritual beliefs, but my spiritual take on THIS case. There is much in your philosophy, Horatio, etc :)

And malvern has it right. They aren't attacking me, they are attacking every thing to do with the case, and they are attacking me not for my views, but my work on it.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:28 pm   Post subject: WHEREIN MANFROMATLAN REPLIES TO AN IDIOT   

Manfromatlan
Quote:
To the person way down below who suggested I 'stop taking drugs', I don't take them, period, never have. Meditation keeps me quite at peace, as can be seen my composure in the face of these relentless personal attacks.
The persons who did take drugs that fatal night were Knox, Sollecito, and Guede, all of whom were high that night and under the influence.
And it is Knox above all, whose contemporaries alleged she was 'self medicating' with drugs and alcohol. For an undiagnosed personality disorder. My guess is, Narcissistic Personality Disorder with more than a touch of Autism Spectrum.
Recent research also points to drug induced psychosis. My theory of the crime has always been, Amanda Knox orchestrated it all in the throes of a drug induced jealous rage.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
OT picture of the day. Baby bear playing in flower field:

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BPz09GzCUAAEjpo.jpg:large


He's doing yoga! :)
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Add my vote to laugh at/ignore the worthless know-nothings whose idea of a hilarious practical joke is pretending to be gay.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

One of them is a sheep farmer in New Zealand, Iodine. I would be more worried about the welfare of his sheep, fetish boy might seek asylum there :)
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Not to put speak for Zorba but I don't believe he said Ergon pushes his personal beliefs on anyone but rather that engaging with people who are clearly disturbed brings that crazy over here. This doesn't mean that we don't support Ergon but rather that we disagree on how best to address the situation. The Groupies are nobodies and the one thing that a nobody wants more than anything is validation. By engaging with them you give them the attention that they want and that they don't deserve.

Look at this Noel character. This is the first I have heard of her and she looks like a cracked out meth abuser who based on her online activity is on some kind of social assistance. A quick sampling of her activity makes it clear she is neither intelligent nor educated. Why would anyone care to engage with her?

The same goes for Bruce. He writes some long article on a site no one from North America visits. So? The only people who go to Ground Report are from Asia and I'm fairly sure they have no idea who Amanda Knox is nor do they have any interest in reading about the subject. As much as the Groupies might think this is a hit against Ergon it isn't. Bruce is the one who has his name as the author of what I still have not read but am certain is a perfectly stereotypical crazy old man yells at cloud rant. I guess it hasn't occurred to Bruce that while his behaviour might be effective in getting beer money out of his small group it also ensures that anyone who matters will never give him the time of day.


Last edited by McCall on Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

( OT OT )

Things are getting pretty serious with the Syria affair! Current deployment of US/French/British v Russian warships in the Med (click to enlarge):

Image


Let's hope the balloon doesn't go up :(

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:40 pm   Post subject: FILING A COMPLAINT ON TWITTER   

Twitter complaint information for Abusive Behavior. https://support.twitter.com/articles/15794 then click on "Report A Violation". I already have, and anyone with a complaint can follow up.

ETA: You will have to block the offenders after filing, but that means you can't read them either, LOL. Just unblock, then block them again if the offending content hasn't been removed yet. Or you can ignore them. Why strain at gnats? I'm just going to keep at what I do. Watch this space.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

IS CORRUPT RUSSIAN NAVY LEAKING DEPLOYMENT INFORMATION TO PMF.NET?

FIND OUT ON GROUNDHOG DAY REPORT.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

It's after midnight in Rome and, as promised, Clander has released PMF.org's translation of the SC judgment, right on time. Please follow the link below to download it:

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=141894#p141894

Many thanks to all involved for their hard work! cl-)
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The English translation of the Supreme Court of Cassation sentencing report has been released by .org.

A big thank you to the team of translators for their hard work!
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks guys and a big thank you to the peeps on Org!!!

I have uploaded the file to Net with Org's disclaimers and credits, here: SUPREME COURT OF CASSATION 2013 MOTIVATIONS

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

A great big thank you to the translators at .ORG. You are awesome.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just taking a break from reading the document to say thank you to those responsible on org !
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Chelsea Hoffman has published recordings of harassing voice messages, that she received from a disturbed Knox supporter, on her website.

Amanda Knox fanatics are dangerous

CASE TO CASE
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Giuliano Mignini's new position, finally updated on the Justice Ministry's website: http://www.giustizia.umbria.it/Giustizi ... atori.page
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

McCall wrote:
Not to put speak for Zorba but I don't believe he said Ergon pushes his personal beliefs on anyone but rather that engaging with people who are clearly disturbed brings that crazy over here. This doesn't mean that we don't support Ergon but rather that we disagree on how best to address the situation. The Groupies are nobodies and the one thing that a nobody wants more than anything is validation. By engaging with them you give them the attention that they want and that they don't deserve.

Look at this Noel character. This is the first I have heard of her and she looks like a cracked out meth abuser who based on her online activity is on some kind of social assistance. A quick sampling of her activity makes it clear she is neither intelligent nor educated. Why would anyone care to engage with her?

The same goes for Bruce. He writes some long article on a site no one from North America visits. So? The only people who go to Ground Report are from Asia and I'm fairly sure they have no idea who Amanda Knox is nor do they have any interest in reading about the subject. As much as the Groupies might think this is a hit against Ergon it isn't. Bruce is the one who has his name as the author of what I still have not read but am certain is a perfectly stereotypical crazy old man yells at cloud rant. I guess it hasn't occurred to Bruce that while his behaviour might be effective in getting beer money out of his small group it also ensures that anyone who matters will never give him the time of day.


What is happening, McCall, and no, I was not offended by anything that zorba said, he's said it before :) and I hope that's not why he's gone. It only was by engaging with them and monitoring their online presence (at a time when many were taking the high road and saying we never bother reading there) that I was able to find out a lot of things they would have preferred stayed hidden. A matter of style, perhaps, but I disagree with the honorable gentleman who would like me to not report on it here. Many here did not want to hear about Frank Sfarzo, either, and it is only with hindsight that they now realize the value to our understanding of this case because of Sfarzo~Gate.

And to make it clear. I am not complaining about any personal attacks on me by Bruce Fischer and his ilk. His members have gone on a rampage posting not just my picture on Facebook, but other people as well. Wait till they come for you, as Martin Niemoller may have said. And I am not comparing this situation to then, but only enunciating a principle-where do we draw the line? As it is, I filed a complaint for ALL those who had been slurred, but after this, I can only say, why bother?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I agree with both McCall and Ergon.

Not giving the Amanda Knox supporters attention is one thing, ignoring them completely as if they don't exist another.

The latest "coup" orchestrated by Bruce Fischer is certainly meant to deviate from the real issues which are the release of the 112 phone calls, the English translation of the latest sentencing report and the upcoming re-run of the appeal.

I believe it is important to expose them, but otherwise I agree with McCall, it is fruitless to engage with them. It makes one only look stupid.

Ergon's handling of this whole situation regarding the malicious smearing of his persona and the verbal abuse was excellent and to the point in my opinion. Some things just need to be said.

I am absolutely baffled that Bruce Fischer thought it was a good idea to forward his rant to over 100 people. They probably won't know what he is talking about, but come away with the certainty that there is something not right about him.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Chelsea Hoffman has published recordings of harassing voice messages, that she received from a disturbed Knox supporter, on her website.

Amanda Knox fanatics are dangerous

CASE TO CASE


Amanda Knox supporters are scary. And I do believe that many of them have a personal relationship to the Knox/Mellas family which explains their nastiness. Noel on Twitter admitted she "knew how Amanda was raised".
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Why are Amanda Knox's supporters so creepy?
By Chelsea Hoffman

ALL VOICES
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I think that now we have to focus on Sept 30, and our reading of the Motivations Report from Cassazione. It was one thing when we had this lull, but now, need to not be distracted any more by petty little people.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Frankly, this is why they are so nasty right now, to deviate the discussion and the focus from what's important: the upcoming appeal and the evidence.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

New article from Andrea Vogt: http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featu ... -appeal-2/


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline McCall


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
A matter of style, perhaps, but I disagree with the honorable gentleman who would like me to not report on it here. Many here did not want to hear about Frank Sfarzo, either, and it is only with hindsight that they now realize the value to our understanding of this case because of Sfarzo~Gate.


Report it yes because it deserves being ridiculed. My expectation is that other people will do a lot of the ridiculing for you. Based on the titles of the Chelsea Hoffman articles linked below I think that is starting to happen. Hoffman's site gets more traffic in one day than Ground Report gets in a year.

Quote:
And to make it clear. I am not complaining about any personal attacks on me by Bruce Fischer and his ilk. His members have gone on a rampage posting not just my picture on Facebook, but other people as well. Wait till they come for you, as Martin Niemoller may have said. And I am not comparing this situation to then, but only enunciating a principle-where do we draw the line? As it is, I filed a complaint for ALL those who had been slurred, but after this, I can only say, why bother?


This is a very valid point. Being the target of the attacks makes the perspective different. I hope you don't think anything in my post implied that I don't have your back because I do. I just believe in a different strategy

Nell wrote:
Not giving the Amanda Knox supporters attention is one thing, ignoring them completely as if they don't exist another.


I'm not suggesting ignoring them but rather to treat them like they deserve to be treated by mocking them and not taking them seriously. No one else in the world does so why should we?

Quote:
The latest "coup" orchestrated by Bruce Fischer is certainly meant to deviate from the real issues which are the release of the 112 phone calls, the English translation of the latest sentencing report and the upcoming re-run of the appeal.


I certainly believe that is the intent but not the outcome. What the Groupies don't realize is that the they are by themselves one of the strongest influences in convening people that Knox is guilty. Consider what happens when a normal person reads comments and sees how crazy her supporters are? Nobody wants to be on the crazy side. I'd be willing to hazard that if IIP has archives you'd find some normal people believed in Knox's innocence years ago and participated on that site but they are all gone now. Nobody wants to be associated with the crazy side.

Quote:
I believe it is important to expose them, but otherwise I agree with McCall, it is fruitless to engage with them. It makes one only look stupid.


My view on engaging them is that light engagement is good. None of the Groupies are smart and the majority of them are quite stupid. The more they talk the more Knox looks guilty. Half the time the Groupies are advancing arguments that promote guilt but they are too stupid to realize it. Having them out there is great and by engaging them it prompts them to post more insanity. I'm all for making fun of them and watching them freak out just don't engage them seriously. Between Knox, Sollecito, and the Knox Groupies they are doing an excellent job of convincing people of her guilt.

Quote:
Ergon's handling of this whole situation regarding the malicious smearing of his persona and the verbal abuse was excellent and to the point in my opinion. Some things just need to be said.


I don't disagree. It is easy to have a different perspective when you're not the one being attacked and I think he defended himself fine.

Quote:
I am absolutely baffled that Bruce Fischer thought it was a good idea to forward his rant to over 100 people. They probably won't know what he is talking about, but come away with the certainty that there is something not right about him.


Fischer isn't smart but he isn't that dumb either. I suspect that under normal circumstances he would have known better but this is what happens when you're surrounded by crazy. His views of what is normal are going to be influenced by the fact that he is the king of a mental institution.

Nell wrote:
Amanda Knox supporters are scary. And I do believe that many of them have a personal relationship to the Knox/Mellas family which explains their nastiness. Noel on Twitter admitted she "knew how Amanda was raised".
.

I don't believe they do. Not a real connection. I believe they have an imaginary connection because their lives are empty and they are delusional but there is no reason to believe any have a connection to the Knox family. Quite the contrary Knox appears embarrassed by her crazy supporters and has specifically avoided acknowledging them at every opportunity.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi, McCall. We have no disagreement. The honorable gentleman I was referring to was another, though you are honorable too :)

My own opinion is that we should engage when with the Groupies (TM) lightly, and my weapon of choice has been ridicule, but also, full exposure. Sometimes, that creates a conflict :(

We all have opinions, and I respect that process. I for one wish we didn't process every blog and TV appearances by the two love birds but that too creates insights, so appreciate we are all kinds.

However, that respect has to extend both ways. I am quite used to attacks by the other side, but one gets tired of harping and second guessing by one's supposed 'allies'. Anyone's natural reaction would be to defend one self. And, make no mistake, the latest attack by Bruce Fischer was not an attack on me (he's been doing it for two years) but on PM Mignini.

I do so agree that we give too much credit to the Groupies, but surely, the corollary cannot then be: we must worry about what their reactions will be. They attack people, that is what they do. I do not seek this conflict, but, if attacked, my response is to investigate even further :)

As to your other points: Fischer is a nasty piece of work, and a bully. He is in my opinion the front man for Chris Mellas (who is very like him) and I have seen plenty of evidence to that effect. And I also believe that Chris Mellas and Edda's family are behind some of the online personas. The rest are of course the sort of people that congregate around murderers whose pathology reflects their own.

But La Knox herself? She knows of their activities, but can't acknowledge them, true. But the full extent of Sfarzo~Gate which has not come out yet, shows how much they all collaborated behind the scenes.

Still, a picture being worth a thousand words, I refer people to the infamous '60 fingers' salute from Vashon Island ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

More details released on the Winterbottom movie cast as Daniel Brühl attends Toronto International Film Festival

Daniel Bruhl leads Winterbottom’s Angel
By Wendy Mitchell
07 September 2013

EXCLUSIVE: WestEnd launches sales in Toronto on the Italy-set thriller, which uses the Amanda Knox trial as a jumping off point.

Daniel Bruhl, here with The Fifth Estate and Rush, has joined the cast of Michael Winterbottom’s Italy-set psychological thriller Face of An Angel.

The cast also features model-turned-actress Cara Delevingne (Anna Karenina) and Valerio Mastandrea (The First Beautiful Thing).

WestEnd has boarded international sales and is introducing the project to buyers here.

The film starts shooting in November in Siena and Rome. Revolution’s Melissa Parmenter produces and partners and backers are Italian production company Cattleya, BBC Films, Hero Films, Lipsync Productions and the Tuscany Regional Film Fund.


SCREEN DAILY
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi, guermantes. Here are the two actors in the roles of ?

Image

and

Image


picture of a pumpkin
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Details: Fixed images so they displayed.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thank you, .org for your translationns.

Thank you, guermantes for my Grandparents Day mention. Great day!

Thank you, Ergon for busting butt and taking no prisoners. Your constant adherence to the facts of the case while fending off vile personal attacks on HuffPo two years ago were the reasons I ended up following the threads of truth that finally led me here. While they busily attacked you personally, you patiently defended the TRUTH. I understand what you are doing, and respectfully suggest that anyone not interested scroll on by.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Taking a break from reading. Would someone ask the translators on .org if they ever grew weary of translating the phrase "lack of logic"?
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
False ID? What next? Getting his aunt to collect his 'donations' through her PAYPAL account? Getting caught shoplifting. Scratching and biting like a girl? (Sorry, ladies :)


YEP.. pp-(
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Just copying this over from Nell, since she's using her tablet and that makes it a little awkward:

Nell wrote:
FYI

There is a real shit storm going on at Bruce Fischer's forum. His members are asking why he never uploaded the two 112 calls if they were indeed on Frank's flash drive and they are asking for their own transcripts and translations.

Member Annella has asked Bruce to upload the phone calls to IIP so that people don't have to visit our site to get them. Bruce responds these calls are nothing new and he doubts a translation will reveal much at this point, but *sigh* he will upload them to keep her happy.

Then there is Dexter, who I am beginning to like. He has posted so much in the past few hours calling Bruce Fischer a liar that I don't think he will last. It is about Frank Sfarzo. Ergon's post has been quoted on IA and it is further proof that we are working for Mignini.

Dexter reminds everyone of Sfarzogate and insists he wants to see the signed arrest warrant. Bruce backtracks even further by saying not only has he never said to have seen the warrant, he now knows it does not exist! Further he tells Dexter to stop debating on his forum if he is unable to recognise that Sfarzo is a victim.

I should add that Dexter also questions Sollecito's credibility and has started arguing about the bleach. He wanted to know why there was confusion about the maid saying she does not use bleach, but new bottles of bleach were found under the sink in Sollecito's apartment.

Regarding Bruce Fischer and his credibility, Dexter keeps asking the right questions.

It should be noted that Reverend Stuart Lyster aka Bill Williams is a huge Sfarzo/Fischer defender against all facts and better knowledge. It's fascinating to watch.

I noted that Rose found a reason to defend Sfarzo nonetheless. According to her we have to look at his writing about the case and him hitting and stealing from others separately. She will keep supporting him, she says.

Dexter is not afraid to call BS (caca de toro).
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Thank you, .org for your translationns.

Thank you, guermantes for my Grandparents Day mention. Great day!

Thank you, Ergon for busting butt and taking no prisoners. Your constant adherence to the facts of the case while fending off vile personal attacks on HuffPo two years ago were the reasons I ended up following the threads of truth that finally led me here. While they busily attacked you personally, you patiently defended the TRUTH. I understand what you are doing, and respectfully suggest that anyone not interested scroll on by.

Yeah..thanks allways to the mods. Thanks Ergon...you endure endless chaos.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Nell wrote:
FYI

There is a real shit storm going on at Bruce Fischer's forum. His members are asking why he never uploaded the two 112 calls if they were indeed on Frank's flash drive and they are asking for their own transcripts and translations.

Member Annella has asked Bruce to upload the phone calls to IIP so that people don't have to visit our site to get them. Bruce responds these calls are nothing new and he doubts a translation will reveal much at this point, but *sigh* he will upload them to keep her happy.

Then there is Dexter, who I am beginning to like. He has posted so much in the past few hours calling Bruce Fischer a liar that I don't think he will last. It is about Frank Sfarzo. Ergon's post has been quoted on IA and it is further proof that we are working for Mignini.

Dexter reminds everyone of Sfarzogate and insists he wants to see the signed arrest warrant. Bruce backtracks even further by saying not only has he never said to have seen the warrant, he now knows it does not exist! Further he tells Dexter to stop debating on his forum if he is unable to recognise that Sfarzo is a victim.

I should add that Dexter also questions Sollecito's credibility and has started arguing about the bleach. He wanted to know why there was confusion about the maid saying she does not use bleach, but new bottles of bleach were found under the sink in Sollecito's apartment.

Regarding Bruce Fischer and his credibility, Dexter keeps asking the right questions.

It should be noted that Reverend Stuart Lyster aka Bill Williams is a huge Sfarzo/Fischer defender against all facts and better knowledge. It's fascinating to watch.

I noted that Rose found a reason to defend Sfarzo nonetheless. According to her we have to look at his writing about the case and him hitting and stealing from others separately. She will keep supporting him, she says.



Time and time again, we have exposed Bruce Fischer as lying to his followers and withholding evidence from them (and the wider public). Their blindfolds have been ripped off and they now have knowledge. It has come to the point where they cannot abdicate their responsibility for supporting a crook and the even greater crooks Fischer supports, under the guise of well meaning ignorance. If Fischer's followers truly care about justice, as they claim, now is the time to really demonstrate it, instead of merely paying it lip service.

Well said...M.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Yes, Nell, "Rose Montague" is indeed a complex creature, and there are indeed flashes of a principle peeking through at times that I like. Like me, she believes in full disclosure of all the documents, so I respect that.

So, to answer her question whether this action by G. Mignini might not backfire on him as it raises Frank to the status of 'journalist', then yes, that is a good question, even if it is a misdirection. Journalists should be held to a high standard of reporting, should be neutral, and should not just be slurring mouthpieces for the rich and powerful, the Murdochs and Berlusconis of the world. Above all, they should not be above the law of their respective countries, and if they want to break the law, accept the consequences. I believe that Frank Sfarzo will receive a fair trial, and if his problems have more to do with his personal nature than his 'reporting', that will come out as well. Whether he shows up for the trial or not.

I note, though, the hypocrisy of those that ask for special treatment for Frank, while at the same time, attacking me for my reporting on the case. But then, I don't collect donations, and I don't carry out personal vendettas, much as the likes of Bruce Fischer that accuse me of doing that while planning 'exposes' of my personal self, not that I have been hiding anywhere in particular :)

No wonder Bruce will have a hard time registering his business as a non-profit or charitable organization, LOL.

Rose is a fair minded individual.
Things just get worse and worser for the habitual bully. Frank is out of his mind.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I have gotten to the point in reading the translation where it is difficult for me to post my opinion.

Yesterday, with first reading, I was filled with optimism, both for justice for Meredith, and a more selfish sense in reading that I had pinpointed correctly the obvious flaws with the Hellman Motivation. It felt good to be right.

However, I slept on it last night, and I awoke with such an overwhelming sense of sadness that it took a few moments to process what my problem was. Sleep is generally a time where the subconscious gears click into place, problems sometimes resolved and a refreshed picture emerges. And I came to realize that my thoughts have again settled on the Kerchers.

While I am overjoyed that the SC is moving forward in righting this absolute wrong, (and there can be no denial at this point that Hellman was wrong, if not out and out illegal), I'm horrified anew at what a travesty the Kerchers have endured these past years.

I'm sending them good thoughts today, and feeling much regret and sadness that all of this was even necessary.
Rest in peace, Meredith.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I think we're all digesting the enormity of this ruling, Napia5, and trying to see what it means for the upcoming Appeal. But I am sure the Kerchers know and appreciate the support of good people like you.

Hope you had a good grandparents day?
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
I think we're all digesting the enormity of this ruling, Napia5, and trying to see what it means for the upcoming Appeal. But I am sure the Kerchers know and appreciate the support of good people like you.

Hope you had a good grandparents day?


Thanks, Ergon. Grandparents day was the best! Fresh from the orchard peaches and apples, shared on pool rafts in the living room! Indoor picnic complete with an animated movie. Threw the whole mess of 'em into the pool afterwards, clothes and all.

What can I say?
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Sollecito has given another interview, this time to the Italian weekly "Oggi":

Raffaele Sollecito: "That's why I am innocent." (video, in Italian)

OGGI

A short summary of what he said (nothing new, obviously) in La Nazione (Firenze) and Gazzetta del Sud:

The murder of Meredith, Sollecito: "Amanda, a sex goddess? [She] was clumsy and inexperienced"

On issues related to sex Amanda Knox "was shy, inexperienced, a little 'clumsy'." To describe it so is her ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito in an exclusive interview with "Oggi". Which also reveals that he's turning to the U.S. in search of a job, dreaming of a job in Silicon Valley.

For Sollecito and Knox, a new appeal trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher will begin September 30 in Florence. The magazine has released a preview of the article that will be on newsstands tomorrow (even on http://www.oggi.it). In an interview with Oggi Sollecito talked about the fact that according to the indictment Amanda Knox was a sort of dark lady. "Amanda, a sex goddess? Here is the root of an error of the investigators - he said - that ridiculous theory of an orgy. Amanda was shy, inexperienced, a little 'clumsy': like me, for that matter. I don't want to go into details because it would not be right [fair]. But I will tell you, for example, that many times more than anything else she just wanted me to comb her hair.’

To the weekly Sollecito confided that after Amanda he fell in love "only once, with a foreign girl." "It didn't last: If I don't have a life - he added - how can I share it? My love life is a mess. Separated often, I go from one relationship to another. They all end badly. Now I am single."

"I'm turning to the United States - said Sollecito to Oggi - looking for a job. "I'm a computer programmer, and a Mecca for me would be the Silicon Valley, California. But as in a 'stand by' mode, I feel 'frozen', immobile. [By] setting aside the acquittal, the Supreme Court has in fact put me in jail."

According to the weekly, the young man has decided to remain in the United States and says that he will skip the first trial hearings. "It will be very technical - says Sollecito - my presence would only distract attention from the facts." But he explained that, later on, he will come back to defend himself.

Sollecito has also appealed to the Kercher family. "Receive me - is his request - give me a chance to talk with you. [I] know it's hard, if what happened to Meredith had happened to my sister Vanessa, I'd be mad, I would not want to be near anyone. But I ask you to have a rational view of the facts. If I'm acquitted - said Sollecito - I will try to build a life and career outside of Italy." (ANSA)


GAZZETTA DEL SUD

LA NAZIONE (FIRENZE)
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

"If I'm acquitted - said Sollecito - I will try to build a life and career outside of Italy."

Dream on!.......................
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Noel Dalbert on Twitter:


@DanielBruhlFans Please reconsider your role in 'The Face of an Angel'. The adaptation is not based on facts

ETA: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ROFL, LOL

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Sollecito has also appealed to the Kercher family. "Receive me - is his request - give me a chance to talk with you. [I] know it's hard, if what happened to Meredith had happened to my sister Vanessa, I'd be mad, I would not want to be near anyone. But I ask you to have a rational view of the facts. If I'm acquitted - said Sollecito - I will try to build a life and career outside of Italy." (ANSA)

GAZZETTA DEL SUD

LA NAZIONE (FIRENZE)



If I'm acquitted - said Sollecito

IF IF IF IF IF

oh dear, is Raffy not sure?


....Sollecito has also appealed to the Kercher family. "Receive me - is his request........

Is he planning to mail himself to the Kercher's?

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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Chelsea Hoffman has published recordings of harassing voice messages, that she received from a disturbed Knox supporter, on her website.

Amanda Knox fanatics are dangerous

CASE TO CASE


Amanda Knox supporters are scary. And I do believe that many of them have a personal relationship to the Knox/Mellas family which explains their nastiness. Noel on Twitter admitted she "knew how Amanda was raised".

Stay away from Noel...she is a labile dark uglyenergy. Good job over there Nell.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
....Sollecito has also appealed to the Kercher family. "Receive me - is his request........

Is he planning to mail himself to the Kercher's?


:lol:

He probably means it in an old-fashioned sense: to receive him as a visitor or guest. Maybe he could ask his servant/butler, dressed in a tuxedo or black suit (+ wearing white gloves), to deliver his card to the Kerchers on a silver tray. ;)
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I have gotten to the point in reading the translation where it is difficult for me to post my opinion.

Yesterday, with first reading, I was filled with optimism, both for justice for Meredith, and a more selfish sense in reading that I had pinpointed correctly the obvious flaws with the Hellman Motivation. It felt good to be right.

However, I slept on it last night, and I awoke with such an overwhelming sense of sadness that it took a few moments to process what my problem was. Sleep is generally a time where the subconscious gears click into place, problems sometimes resolved and a refreshed picture emerges. And I came to realize that my thoughts have again settled on the Kerchers.

While I am overjoyed that the SC is moving forward in righting this absolute wrong, (and there can be no denial at this point that Hellman was wrong, if not out and out illegal), I'm horrified anew at what a travesty the Kerchers have endured these past years.

I'm sending them good thoughts today, and feeling much regret and sadness that all of this was even necessary.
Rest in peace, Meredith.

Yeah Napia, this is the big show. No more fooling around.
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Sollecito has also appealed to the Kercher family. "Receive me - is his request - give me a chance to talk with you. [I] know it's hard, if what happened to Meredith had happened to my sister Vanessa, I'd be mad, I would not want to be near anyone. But I ask you to have a rational view of the facts. If I'm acquitted - said Sollecito - I will try to build a life and career outside of Italy." (ANSA)

GAZZETTA DEL SUD

LA NAZIONE (FIRENZE)



If I'm acquitted - said Sollecito

IF IF IF IF IF

oh dear, is Raffy not sure?


....Sollecito has also appealed to the Kercher family. "Receive me - is his request........

Is he planning to mail himself to the Kercher's?


IF IF IF a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he jumped. Deluded fellow.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I had the same reaction, Napia, I felt like a building collapsed in my stomach.

I feel like the Knoxes have turned him out and he's facing this alone without many allies. He's fragile and crumbling and I'd almost feel bad for him if he weren't a giant POS who robbed the Kerchers of their daughter and then made them watch him bend justice to suit him. It now suits him to publicly try to force the Kerchers, out of politeness, to "accept" him, give him their little seal of approval, like hey, we all make mistakes. I feel the same way about the Knox family. When I was still new to this I used to think that her parents especially were forced into an impossible situation, and might have made some sketchy plays but were more or less ok people. Having become properly encyclopedic on how they've taken advantage of everyone who just believes them (as any halfway decent person would) when they come blotting their eyes about how badly Knox is being treated, I don't think that anymore. I think they're wretched people who did a wretched thing because that's all they know how to do.


Last edited by Iodine on Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline tamale


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
I think that now we have to focus on Sept 30, and our reading of the Motivations Report from Cassazione. It was one thing when we had this lull, but now, need to not be distracted any more by petty little people.

That is the best way to not deal with em. I agree Ergon..we just need to keep going a little longer.

I also think any body who is getting bothered should out the overly aggressive.
Let nobody scare you into silence...
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks for your support, Tamale. It may not seem that way, but I have kept most of my own battles away from this forum. But appropriating my identity, stealing my copyrighted title and material, setting up a fake profile on. Dating site? They are being hit hard, and don't know much yet. But when Bruce Fischer lies to his own members that I-A doesn't support those activities? He lies, and we have the proof of it in a screen grab, the best kind. And make no mistake, they aren't attacking me, they are attacking justice for Meredith.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

But what about knife boy? He's going to attend the appeal, no he won't, he's such a wussy coward as was his buddy Frank. We know he (Frank) was paid by the Sollecitos and some shady politicians.

But fetish son? The betting now appears to be that he won't be in Florence. Nor will Frank, come to think of it ;)

My regret that I can't make it to the hearings. Duty calls.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:34 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Thanks for your support, Tamale. It may not seem that way, but I have kept most of my own battles away from this forum. But appropriating my identity, stealing my copyrighted title and material, setting up a fake profile on. Dating site? They are being hit hard, and don't know much yet. But when Bruce Fischer lies to his own members that I-A doesn't support those activities? He lies, and we have the proof of it in a screen grab, the best kind. And make no mistake, they aren't attacking me, they are attacking justice for Meredith.


In my opinion, there is absolutely no need for you to explain yourself here, Ergon. Had it not been for your efforts, (and tamale's of course), Frank Sfarzo would still be publicly front and center, spewing his lies and wreaking havoc with the media in general. And that's just for starters. Imagine where this case would be, in terms of public knowledge and opinion if it had not been for the efforts of any of us who were willing to confront the lies and misconceptions that ran rampant and would have grown unchecked without these efforts. Think Vashon Island.

You've gone the extra mile for Meredith (and I read Nell's efforts Sunday also. Good job.), and because of your willingness to confront these lies, their numbers and rants are dwindling. They've been exposed for the imposters and money grabbers they are. Anyone that fails to recognize this might want to take a step back and re-think things.
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The only thing Bruce Fischer has successfully exposed so far is his own stupidity.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I listened to the oggi interview I'm not fluent but he refers to a document that shows every time he turned his computer on and off , after 9pm . It sounds like he's claiming to have evidence he did that several times. Of course he also makes unfounded remarks about stomach contents and all the profiles on the clasp. It seems to me he made reference to new computer evidence in another interview recently, is this a preview into a defense strategy and why haven't we heard of it before?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
I listened to the oggi interview I'm not fluent but he refers to a document that shows every time he turned his computer on and off , after 9pm . It sounds like he's claiming to have evidence he did that several times. Of course he also makes unfounded remarks about stomach contents and all the profiles on the clasp. It seems to me he made reference to new computer evidence in another interview recently, is this a preview into a defense strategy and why haven't we heard of it before?


Yet another alibi? I hope these new defence experts have also found a trail leading to the emails he wrote to his professors that night!

I don't believe that any of this will be taken seriously as his presence at the crime scene is well established through evidence and there never was a claim from him or his defence team to have turned on and off his computer. Not in the first trial and not during the appeal.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
I listened to the oggi interview I'm not fluent but he refers to a document that shows every time he turned his computer on and off , after 9pm . It sounds like he's claiming to have evidence he did that several times. Of course he also makes unfounded remarks about stomach contents and all the profiles on the clasp. It seems to me he made reference to new computer evidence in another interview recently, is this a preview into a defense strategy and why haven't we heard of it before?


I think he is posting his own thoughts, malvern, much of it cribbed from the FOA handbook. But whether it actually makes it to the appeals submission, we do not know.

Case in point: we have access to the defense submission to the Hellmann/Zanetti court. Toss that out; his lawyers will have to submit a new appeal to Florence in view of the Cassazione ruling. And we don't know the substance of it, (or Knox's) but can only guess from his musings in America that he's been trying to raise money to hire a new team of experts to argue the "evidence".

The groupies, in my battle with them at Ground Report, kept harping on his "damaged" 4 computers (sic) so I think he'll try to reestablish an alibi: he was on the computer at the time, couldn't have been at the cottage. (This would be one way of tossing Knox under the bus) Then, DNA experts to contest the bra clasp evidence, and I can hardly wait for another back door submission from Greg Hampikian, who will pontificate from afar without having ever to undergo peer review, or cross examination :) TOD/stomach contents, anybody?

Knox's appeal, will IMHO, be on the double DNA knife, the mixed blood evidence, and TOD.

Both will try to undermine Quintavalle and Curatolo, and refute Massei. Sgt. Pasquali will shoot another rock through a window, Bongiorno will try to climb a wall, and all will demand the 'semen' be tested. Or not, he's deathly afraid :)

And they will resist the recalling of Alessi and Aviello. I, hope that Rudy will show up, like Banquo's ghost :)

The court might shoot down many of those requests, of course.
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Big thanks to the translators. I am still reading, but I think I get it. "Lack of logic" :mrgreen: So Sollecito is not going to attend the first trials? I wonder if he will show up at all. His interviews do not show any change in strategy. Same old, same old. Describing Knox (and himself) as 'clumsy' gives me goosebumps as I feel he is describing what happened at the night of the murder. I feel for the Kerchers, but I believe (and hope) they are not following any of the online discussions and outcries of the few remaining Knox fanatics. Wishing for a smooth and fast appeal trial.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I keep forgetting to ask the Groupies why they think that since there is evidence of Guede "all over the crime scene", and they believe that there is no evidence of a cleanup, why is there no trace of him on the drawer where Meredith kept her money?
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Offline max


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I keep forgetting to ask the Groupies why they think that since there is evidence of Guede "all over the crime scene", and they believe that there is no evidence of a cleanup, why is there no trace of him on the drawer where Meredith kept her money?

Yes, there are so many of those. No traces on the phones either. The biggest one is probably the bloody shoe prints of Guede that don't go to the bathroom, and don't show him locking the bedroom door behind him. They go straight out the front door. Also no bloody shoe prints going to the bloody hand print on the wall, or the bloody knife print on the bed, no bloody shoe prints showing that he tossed the duvet. And where is that imprint in blood where he first put his shoe in blood anyway?
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

max wrote:
Big thanks to the translators. I am still reading, but I think I get it. "Lack of logic" :mrgreen: So Sollecito is not going to attend the first trials? I wonder if he will show up at all. His interviews do not show any change in strategy. Same old, same old. Describing Knox (and himself) as 'clumsy' gives me goosebumps as I feel he is describing what happened at the night of the murder. I feel for the Kerchers, but I believe (and hope) they are not following any of the online discussions and outcries of the few remaining Knox fanatics. Wishing for a smooth and fast appeal trial.


Lack of Logic. If the Hellmann Report didn't concern such a tragic topic, it could be nicknamed the LOL Report.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

max wrote:
Big thanks to the translators. I am still reading, but I think I get it. "Lack of logic" :mrgreen: So Sollecito is not going to attend the first trials? I wonder if he will show up at all. His interviews do not show any change in strategy. Same old, same old. Describing Knox (and himself) as 'clumsy' gives me goosebumps as I feel he is describing what happened at the night of the murder. I feel for the Kerchers, but I believe (and hope) they are not following any of the online discussions and outcries of the few remaining Knox fanatics. Wishing for a smooth and fast appeal trial.


Sollecito is, as always, clear as mud. He'll avoid the 'technical discussions', but will be there (later)? I suppose the last day, to make a spontaneous declaration and whine about being persecuted by the bad Italians? Is he so deaf and dumb he can't understand they read his book and copies of his blog?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I keep forgetting to ask the Groupies why they think that since there is evidence of Guede "all over the crime scene", and they believe that there is no evidence of a cleanup, why is there no trace of him on the drawer where Meredith kept her money?


Funny how Della Vadova and Bongiorno kept rabbiting on about the evidence at Cassazione then the Groupies complain the court ruled on the evidence but not the law, and therefore prejudiced the appeal?

Wrongo. The court explained that Hellmann, in waving away testimony and evidence, did not give a logical reason to do so. Sollecito and Knox are quite welcome to ask for a retesting of the pillow, hard drives, and Double DNA knife. They can try to prove that the witnesses were mistaken.

I'm not too sure how successful that line of defense would be ;)
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Offline dgfred


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
I listened to the oggi interview I'm not fluent but he refers to a document that shows every time he turned his computer on and off , after 9pm . It sounds like he's claiming to have evidence he did that several times. Of course he also makes unfounded remarks about stomach contents and all the profiles on the clasp. It seems to me he made reference to new computer evidence in another interview recently, is this a preview into a defense strategy and why haven't we heard of it before?



Isn't that the old screen-saver stuff? X
Stomach contents argument? XX
HIS full and other partial profiles? XXX

Three strikes-you are out! stup-)
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

dgfred wrote:
malvern wrote:
I listened to the oggi interview I'm not fluent but he refers to a document that shows every time he turned his computer on and off , after 9pm . It sounds like he's claiming to have evidence he did that several times. Of course he also makes unfounded remarks about stomach contents and all the profiles on the clasp. It seems to me he made reference to new computer evidence in another interview recently, is this a preview into a defense strategy and why haven't we heard of it before?



Isn't that the old screen-saver stuff? X
Stomach contents argument? XX
HIS full and other partial profiles? XXX

Three strikes-you are out! stup-)


Maybe you can help me out with this, dgfred.
His dream job is in Silicon Valley, whatevah. He's a computer geek, right? (no insult intended, as we all know about my stellar skills).

Anyway, his computer alibi has been hatching for 6 years now. Wouldn't it be impressive to the max if he presented a PowerPoint explanation to his interviewers, reconstructing his computer movements that night? Can't a wizard find this stuff "Somewhere out there?"

To explain this better, I'm a grandma. Most of my posts in some way reflect this. Consciously or unconsciously, it's just the way I speak. We see this with DNA experts, psychologists, and those of a spiritual bent. These thoughts and feelings bleed through in our conversations. Wouldn't you think that Sollecito would be explaining his innocence LOUDLY with explanations littered with techno-talk? All I get from his conversations is a whiny, dog-ate-my-homework excuse for what happened to the computers. If the computer is his iron-clad alibi, and he is an expert in this field, why isn't he hammering and hammering away at this, with techno-jargon that goes totally over my head? If this were my field of expertise, I don't think I would even want my lawyers to tackle this for me. I'd be all over this to the point where everyone would be sick of hearing about it.............If it were true.
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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

He shared the arguments that must be part of his appeal. He had never seen Guede before the trial, He started to say Guede entered(avoiding the breakin) then switched mid sentence to the car park video time after 8. His activity at home with the movie finishing at 9 or abouts, then this mystery list(documented) of the turning off and on of his computer. With these arguments he isn't in any conflict with Amanda knowing Guede or the fact there was no break in. He is asked if he had any advice for Amanda who isn't attending the appeal. His reaction is quick and natural he laughed, kind of like why would I she makes her own decisions and we have separate lives.
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Offline Iodine


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

There exists a photo taken right against the hall floor showing the floor was dusty. Bongiorno seized upon it as proof that the floor hadn't been recently cleaned. Does anyone know which one I'm talking about?

From their more-or-less consistent dilution, the lack of swipe marks, and the puddle-shaped one I'm thinking the Luminol prints were made with wet feet from washing up in the bathroom (probably just looked like water) rather than stamped then cleaned away.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I looked at the hall photos, Iodine. None of them seem particularly dusty. Can you describe which one? Amanda and Raffaele were walking around with bare feet during the clean up so they might have just wiped their own visible foot prints. The bathroom mat was clearly "stamped" so I'm sure the cleanup went the short distance from Meredith's room to the bathroom. But the traces in Filomena's room? I think, she was barefoot when she grabbed the rock and staged the break in from the inside.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I'll keep looking for it -- it might be from Fat Tony's personal collection and posted in the Knox thread "back home."


My thinking is that the notions of selective-DNA removal and "they must have cleaned that too" seem like begging the question; I think they didn't leave that many visible footprints in the first place -- wiped blood would have to be less than 1-in-100,000 parts, perhaps even lower than 1-in-1,000,000, not to give any reaction to Luminol, else the whole floor would look like



I find that level of thoroughness incompatible with there being any footprints left at all, as well as leaving Rudy's shoe prints intact, including the one that overlaps the "puddle" trace of Sollecito's feet:



The Luminol traces have indistinct boundaries, but don't appear smeared or streaked from a rubbing motion. I remember it was thought that the techs overapplied the Luminol and that's why the traces are blobby, but what if the traces themselves are blobby and the Luminol representation is an accurate depiction of what's on the floor?

This one (large) shows more of a watery activity. There's also the dearth of their footprints in Meredith's room to consider (while there was a great deal of blood, it wasn't so abundant that there was nowhere else to step). I think it's more likely that the Luminol prints are of very dilute blood, left by mostly dripping water from washing in the bathroom which evaporated in situ, rather than pure blood that was tracked around and cleaned up in such a thorough-yet-totally-incomplete way that eliminated all evidence of rubbing yet preserved Rudy's ringed shoeprints.
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Offline jhansigirl


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
dgfred wrote:
malvern wrote:
I listened to the oggi interview I'm not fluent but he refers to a document that shows every time he turned his computer on and off , after 9pm . It sounds like he's claiming to have evidence he did that several times. Of course he also makes unfounded remarks about stomach contents and all the profiles on the clasp. It seems to me he made reference to new computer evidence in another interview recently, is this a preview into a defense strategy and why haven't we heard of it before?



Isn't that the old screen-saver stuff? X
Stomach contents argument? XX
HIS full and other partial profiles? XXX

Three strikes-you are out! stup-)


Maybe you can help me out with this, dgfred.
His dream job is in Silicon Valley, whatevah. He's a computer geek, right? (no insult intended, as we all know about my stellar skills).

Anyway, his computer alibi has been hatching for 6 years now. Wouldn't it be impressive to the max if he presented a PowerPoint explanation to his interviewers, reconstructing his computer movements that night? Can't a wizard find this stuff "Somewhere out there?"

To explain this better, I'm a grandma. Most of my posts in some way reflect this. Consciously or unconsciously, it's just the way I speak. We see this with DNA experts, psychologists, and those of a spiritual bent. These thoughts and feelings bleed through in our conversations. Wouldn't you think that Sollecito would be explaining his innocence LOUDLY with explanations littered with techno-talk? All I get from his conversations is a whiny, dog-ate-my-homework excuse for what happened to the computers. If the computer is his iron-clad alibi, and he is an expert in this field, why isn't he hammering and hammering away at this, with techno-jargon that goes totally over my head? If this were my field of expertise, I don't think I would even want my lawyers to tackle this for me. I'd be all over this to the point where everyone would be sick of hearing about it.............If it were true.


I believe, not certain, he did his computer science degree in Italian. He would have difficulty sounding knowlegeable in English as his English is not that great.

I would be very interested in how he can evidence switching on/off his computer.

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Offline Napia5


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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

jhansigirl wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
dgfred wrote:
malvern wrote:
I listened to the oggi interview I'm not fluent but he refers to a document that shows every time he turned his computer on and off , after 9pm . It sounds like he's claiming to have evidence he did that several times. Of course he also makes unfounded remarks about stomach contents and all the profiles on the clasp. It seems to me he made reference to new computer evidence in another interview recently, is this a preview into a defense strategy and why haven't we heard of it before?



Isn't that the old screen-saver stuff? X
Stomach contents argument? XX
HIS full and other partial profiles? XXX

Three strikes-you are out! stup-)


Maybe you can help me out with this, dgfred.
His dream job is in Silicon Valley, whatevah. He's a computer geek, right? (no insult intended, as we all know about my stellar skills).

Anyway, his computer alibi has been hatching for 6 years now. Wouldn't it be impressive to the max if he presented a PowerPoint explanation to his interviewers, reconstructing his computer movements that night? Can't a wizard find this stuff "Somewhere out there?"

To explain this better, I'm a grandma. Most of my posts in some way reflect this. Consciously or unconsciously, it's just the way I speak. We see this with DNA experts, psychologists, and those of a spiritual bent. These thoughts and feelings bleed through in our conversations. Wouldn't you think that Sollecito would be explaining his innocence LOUDLY with explanations littered with techno-talk? All I get from his conversations is a whiny, dog-ate-my-homework excuse for what happened to the computers. If the computer is his iron-clad alibi, and he is an expert in this field, why isn't he hammering and hammering away at this, with techno-jargon that goes totally over my head? If this were my field of expertise, I don't think I would even want my lawyers to tackle this for me. I'd be all over this to the point where everyone would be sick of hearing about it.............If it were true.


I believe, not certain, he did his computer science degree in Italian. He would have difficulty sounding knowlegeable in English as his English is not that great.

I would be very interested in how he can evidence switching on/off his computer.


Maybe I'm not being clear on this. Do you personally have a field of expertise? Computers? Medicine? Chocolate Chip Cookie Baking? Suppose coincidentally, that your field of knowledge encompassed the ONE thing that could prove you innocent of murder? (So he says). It would leave NO DOUBT about your innocence. Would you go on radio and television and talk about how your co-defendant liked to cuddle? How inexperienced she and you were?
NO WAY! That's what has been wrong from the beginning with him. If I were totally innocent of a murder, and there was absolute proof of my innocence and proof happened to rely on my particular field of expertise, I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT. In any language, at any time. Period.

I would personally be interfacing with every other computer geek I could contact to discuss the problem, the possible solutions what happened, what I am trying to show with the 'lost data', and try to seek all the help I could muster, because, in the mind of an innocent, this will absolutely prove my innocence. No shades of grey, no differing opinions. It's what he knows. It's his field. I don't see the language barrier as a problem at all. I personally don't believe that he would even be able to focus on much else.......if he was innocent.
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