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XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 - SEPT 29, 13

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:32 pm   Post subject: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 - SEPT 29, 13   

XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 - SEPT 29, 2013






This is the main discussion thread regarding the achievement of truth and justice for Meredith Kercher and her family. Meredith, barely 21 years old, was brutally murdered in her own home on the 1st November 2007 whilst studying in Perugia, Italy.

To read the previous main discussion thread, please view XXVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCT 31, 12 - MARCH 29, 13 (S)

Michael (Administrator/Moderator of Perugia Murder File)
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Grandma Huff spoke out today, Amanda is strolling through a Seattle Park looking pensive, and sorry, this is a dm article again:

Pictured: Amanda Knox emerges for the first time since finding out she will be retried for murdering Meredith Kercher
By Hannah Roberts In Rome and Rachel Quigley
PUBLISHED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013 | UPDATED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rcher.html

"She (Elisabeth Huff) told the Italian newspaper La Stampa: 'It's a persecution. She has already been tried twice. Why reopen it.
The prosecutors want to find other guilty parties at any cost and they will never give up. That is the view of Amanda and our entire family.
'Because of this Amanda will not return to Italy for the new trial. She will never go back. No one in our family will.' "
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:58 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Italians in Florence react to Amanda Knox retrial
KING 5's Linda Brill is in Italy with reaction by local residents.
Posted on March 28, 2013 at 5:26 PM
Updated yesterday at 6:22 PM

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Residen ... 30231.html

"All three of them should be thrown in jail and the key should be thrown away" one of them says (at 00:46).
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox's ex Raffaele Sollecito sets up company to profit from cold cases
From: AFP, March 29, 2013 2:11AM
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/amand ... 6608822372


"THE co-defendant in Amanda Knox's retrial for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher has set up a company to review cold cases and make money from them, Italian media have reported.
Raffaele Sollecito, who is completing a degree in information technology, has registered "Experience Teller" in Switzerland with capital of 100,000 Swiss francs ($100,000), the reports said.

"I think this entrepreneurial idea is brilliant and clearly it is very linked to his personal experience," Roberto Segala, Sollecito's university lecturer in Verona in northern Italy, was quoted as saying.

"The idea is to collate large amounts of information on unresolved cases in to provoke large-scale interest and provide relevant consultancy in various fields to resolve them, including through information technology," he said. The revenue would come from selling books and films about the cases."
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Italians should fly in a tv crew to UW to ask how the students feel having her around. It seems there still are crews from NBC and CNN in Italy asking people for their take on it. But as one reporter complained to me, 'most people don't care about the case any more, and they're there because the networks are pushing the story'.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Encouraging Amanda Knox Could Be a Bad Idea
March 29, 2013 07:40 AM EDT, Bby Chelsea Hoffman
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.acti ... 4981864304

"...If Amanda Knox is so confident that she is truly innocent and that the "truth" will set her free, then she should have no problem whatsoever cooperating with the Italian High Court.
Refusing to cooperate and refusing to willingly self-extradite will only make her look guilty as hell, and as far as the Italian High Court will be concerned, that's all that will be needed to convict after all of this...."
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Italians should fly in a tv crew to UW to ask how the students feel having her around.


Ergon, thanks for your long last post...very interesting, and very sad to hear about Meredith's mother (both her parents) suffering from poor health. :(
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks, Ava. Arlene Kercher has been in poor health for a long while, and John suffered his mini strokes after Meredith's murder. That's why Meredith kept her phone with her at all times, she'd check in on her mum regularly. It's sad to think that she was attacked shortly after her last attempt to call her mother.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yes, sad indeed. I somehow understood that it had gotten worse, that's what I was worried about.


Last edited by Ava on Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox case could pit extradition treaty against U.S. Constitution
Terry Baynes, Reuters
First posted: Friday, March 29, 2013 03:35 PM EDT | Updated: Friday, March 29, 2013 03:44 PM EDT
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/03/29/am ... nstitution


"Other defendants who have been acquitted in other countries and then convicted on appeal have attempted to raise the double jeopardy principle to avoid extradition, without much success, said Mary Fan, a law professor at the University of Washington who specializes in cross-border criminal law.
...
While the issue is rare in the United States, several courts have rejected the double jeopardy argument in similar cases. In 2010, a federal court in California found that a man who was acquitted of murder in Mexico and later convicted after prosecutors appealed the acquittal, could not claim double jeopardy to avoid extradition to Mexico. That court cited a 1974 decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, that reached the same conclusion with respect to Canadian law, which also allows the government to appeal an acquittal.

When asked about the potential extradition of Knox at a press briefing on Tuesday, a spokesman for the U.S. State Department said the question was hypothetical and declined to comment."
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Grandma Huff spoke out today, Amanda is strolling through a Seattle Park looking pensive, and sorry, this is a dm article again:

Pictured: Amanda Knox emerges for the first time since finding out she will be retried for murdering Meredith Kercher
By Hannah Roberts In Rome and Rachel Quigley
PUBLISHED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013 | UPDATED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rcher.html

"She (Elisabeth Huff) told the Italian newspaper La Stampa: 'It's a persecution. She has already been tried twice. Why reopen it.
The prosecutors want to find other guilty parties at any cost and they will never give up. That is the view of Amanda and our entire family.
'Because of this Amanda will not return to Italy for the new trial. She will never go back. No one in our family will.' "


It is clear to me that Amanda Knox knew her photo would be taken when she was "strolling through the park". Just compare them to others we have seen from her regularly. She always looks somewhat messy. In these photos she is dressed ok, first time I've ever seen her wearing ballerinas instead of sneakers or boots, and her hair is styled in a neat braid. That's not a coincidence in my opinion.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

No, these aren't exactly snapshots... :)
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Yes, sad indeed. I somehow understood that it had gotten worse, that's what I was worried about.


It had gotten worse, with the stress of the hearing. I'm sorry that Stephanie had not been able to attend, to see justice finally. I understand the Italians plan on acting quickly so hopefully they will not have to wait longer.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:16 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

American Jezebel Amanda Knox to face justice
Exclusive: Ilana Mercer reveals latest in murder case that captured world's attention

Quote:
“Five, three and one” is how Wendy Murphy, law professor and flamboyant TV talker, counted the preponderance of forensic and circumstantial evidence that had originally convicted America’s sweetheart, Amanda Knox, of murdering Briton Meredith Kercher, in Perugia, Italy, in November 2007.

In 2011, Knox’s subsequent 2009 conviction was overturned, due in no small part to a PR blitz mounted by the Knox clan and their Seattle-based publicist. A veritable media mafia thronged to put the Italian judicial system on trial for railroading their cherub.

Agitating for Amanda were mass murderer Hillary Clinton, corrupt King County Superior Court Judge Michael Heavey – he abused his office (my state; my taxes) to petition members of the Italian judiciary on behalf of Knox, in violation of Washington state’s Code of Judicial Conduct—Democratic Sen. Maria Cantwell (she misspells her surname), ubiquitous tele-attorney Anne Bremner, public relations adviser David Marriott and “48 Hours” correspondent Peter Van Sant, who had abandoned impartiality for outright advocacy.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/american-jez ... erlrlBU.99
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox case could pit extradition treaty against U.S. Constitution
Terry Baynes, Reuters
First posted: Friday, March 29, 2013 03:35 PM EDT | Updated: Friday, March 29, 2013 03:44 PM EDT
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/03/29/am ... nstitution


"Other defendants who have been acquitted in other countries and then convicted on appeal have attempted to raise the double jeopardy principle to avoid extradition, without much success, said Mary Fan, a law professor at the University of Washington who specializes in cross-border criminal law.
...
While the issue is rare in the United States, several courts have rejected the double jeopardy argument in similar cases. In 2010, a federal court in California found that a man who was acquitted of murder in Mexico and later convicted after prosecutors appealed the acquittal, could not claim double jeopardy to avoid extradition to Mexico. That court cited a 1974 decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, that reached the same conclusion with respect to Canadian law, which also allows the government to appeal an acquittal.

When asked about the potential extradition of Knox at a press briefing on Tuesday, a spokesman for the U.S. State Department said the question was hypothetical and declined to comment."


Thanks for posting this. I've read this article earlier and I believe it is more of a question if Italy decides to request the extradition of Amanda Knox should her conviction be upheld than the U.S. refusing to extradite her.

Those who claim double jeopardy are either ignorant about how the Italian appeals process works or they deliberately choose to dismiss it because it's convenient.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox's ex Raffaele Sollecito sets up company to profit from cold cases
From: AFP, March 29, 2013 2:11AM
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/amand ... 6608822372


"THE co-defendant in Amanda Knox's retrial for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher has set up a company to review cold cases and make money from them, Italian media have reported.
Raffaele Sollecito, who is completing a degree in information technology, has registered "Experience Teller" in Switzerland with capital of 100,000 Swiss francs ($100,000), the reports said.

"I think this entrepreneurial idea is brilliant and clearly it is very linked to his personal experience," Roberto Segala, Sollecito's university lecturer in Verona in northern Italy, was quoted as saying.

"The idea is to collate large amounts of information on unresolved cases in to provoke large-scale interest and provide relevant consultancy in various fields to resolve them, including through information technology," he said. The revenue would come from selling books and films about the cases."



In other words, a murder marketing company! How utterly crass and just what we would expect from the likes of Sollecito. But then, he's had the best of the bottom feeders around him to learn from.

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Nell

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Hi Ava, thanks to you too for all the news updates. There's so much news that passes by that it's impossible to track it all. The other day, I was thinking about Hellmann and wondering what his reaction was to the SC decision to throw out the acquittals by his court. Now we know. Perhaps it's all for the best, that he has retired, I mean.

Do you remember the RI film producer that withdrew his offer to buy movie rights to Knox's life story?

Rhode Island Producer Chad A. Verdi Comments on Prior $1M Offer for Life Rights to the Amanda Knox Story and his Decision to Withdraw

“What I thought was going to transpire is now a reality” = C Verdi

Verdi and Kraft, who specialize in comeback stories, reached out to Ms. Knox in 2011, once they heard that she had been acquitted. "We had hoped the offer would have been accepted and that filming would have begun as early as January 2013," stated Mr. Verdi, who is the President and CEO of Verdi Productions. "My attorney contacted Theodore Simon, Ms. Knox's U.S. counsel at the time."

Mr. Verdi, had stated, "after reviewing all the information we had involving the Knox case, we have decided it was not the inspirational feel good story that VP was looking for and we withdrew our offer."

Verdi added, "we were of the opinion that the Italian government thought Amanda Knox was more involved than what she had stated and that she would be retried at some point. Now we know we were correct and we are very happy with our decision. It was not the story we were looking for."


INVESTOR IDEAS


That is funny.

Remember Bruce Fischer's clumsy article on Ground Report? Producer's Pseudo Offer To Amanda Knox Nothing More Than A Publicity Stunt. He acknowledged that an offer was made, but deemed it to be "invalid".

From the article:

Quote:
How do you bring attention to yourself if you are a small time production company? Why not announce an offer of one million dollars to Amanda Knox for her “life rights?” Of course you know the offer will be completely ignored by Knox but that is the beauty of the ingenious plan. All you have to do is wait a while, then retract the offer by dreaming up a lame excuse, all while acting as if the offer was completely valid all along. This way you get to leach off of Knox’s name in attempt to drum up a little publicity. Does that sound like a sleazy enough way to garner attention?

Well that is exactly what Chad A. Verdi, President and CEO of Verdi Productions, did recently in order to bring attention to his production company. I realize that I am catering to Verdi’s need for attention by writing about his pseudo-offer to Knox but I feel that Verdi’s ploy is more than ridiculous enough to call out. I hope that anyone thinking about doing business in the future with Mr. Verdi will come to realize what kind of person Verdi has painted himself to be. His recent actions are that of a snake.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Italians should fly in a tv crew to UW to ask how the students feel having her around. It seems there still are crews from NBC and CNN in Italy asking people for their take on it. But as one reporter complained to me, 'most people don't care about the case any more, and they're there because the networks are pushing the story.


I completely agree. It wouldn't surprise me at all if questions about the continued enrollment of an older student provisionally convicted of sexually assaulting and murdering her college roommate were to reach a fever pitch. The UW is poised to begin screening prospective students for criminal background after an outcry when it was revealed they allowed a couple of level 3 sex offenders to enroll.

Remember when Bruce Fischer claimed to have reported to campus police and the student ethics committee that a couple of young, 19 - 20 year old sorority girls who were frightened by Knox's presence on campus were tweeting each other about their proximity to Knox on campus? I wouldn't be surprised if their parents included prominent alumni.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:32 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Grandma Huff spoke out today, Amanda is strolling through a Seattle Park looking pensive, and sorry, this is a dm article again:

Pictured: Amanda Knox emerges for the first time since finding out she will be retried for murdering Meredith Kercher
By Hannah Roberts In Rome and Rachel Quigley
PUBLISHED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013 | UPDATED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rcher.html

"She (Elisabeth Huff) told the Italian newspaper La Stampa: 'It's a persecution. She has already been tried twice. Why reopen it.
The prosecutors want to find other guilty parties at any cost and they will never give up. That is the view of Amanda and our entire family.
'Because of this Amanda will not return to Italy for the new trial. She will never go back. No one in our family will.' "


Perhaps someone should tell Grandma Huff that Knox doesn't have to have an appeal, it's automatic but purely optional. Knox could submit in writing that she doesn't wish to have an appeal trial and is happy to have the original trial's verdict stand! She could also have done that the first time round but she wanted the appeal. Now that the appeal has been annulled, if she doesn't want a new appeal, she should just say so. Italy, most of the world and the Kercher family would be more then happy with that. I agree, no need for more trials, let the verdict of the original trial stand, go tell 'em Amanda...and Grandma!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi Everyone, just a note to say that I'm rather behind with my PM's. I shall try and catch up with them this weekend. I'm not ignoring you! :)

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:45 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Hi Everyone, just a note to say that I'm rather behind with my PM's. I shall try and catch up with them this weekend. I'm not ignoring you! :)


So good to see you back Michael! It's been a great week in the fight for justice for Meredith!
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:52 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
American Jezebel Amanda Knox to face justice
Exclusive: Ilana Mercer reveals latest in murder case that captured world's attention

Quote:
“Five, three and one” is how Wendy Murphy, law professor and flamboyant TV talker, counted the preponderance of forensic and circumstantial evidence that had originally convicted America’s sweetheart, Amanda Knox, of murdering Briton Meredith Kercher, in Perugia, Italy, in November 2007.

In 2011, Knox’s subsequent 2009 conviction was overturned, due in no small part to a PR blitz mounted by the Knox clan and their Seattle-based publicist. A veritable media mafia thronged to put the Italian judicial system on trial for railroading their cherub.

Agitating for Amanda were mass murderer Hillary Clinton, corrupt King County Superior Court Judge Michael Heavey – he abused his office (my state; my taxes) to petition members of the Italian judiciary on behalf of Knox, in violation of Washington state’s Code of Judicial Conduct—Democratic Sen. Maria Cantwell (she misspells her surname), ubiquitous tele-attorney Anne Bremner, public relations adviser David Marriott and “48 Hours” correspondent Peter Van Sant, who had abandoned impartiality for outright advocacy.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/american-jez ... erlrlBU.99


Wow. Mercer is SO going to get death threats from the Fischerites!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:55 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Michael wrote:
Hi Everyone, just a note to say that I'm rather behind with my PM's. I shall try and catch up with them this weekend. I'm not ignoring you! :)


So good to see you back Michael! It's been a great week in the fight for justice for Meredith!


Great to see you too, Louie. And yeah, wonderful week for Meredith. The tide has turned. Knox's supporters know Knox now has no chance in her appeal, hence why they are focusing on arguments regarding extradition. The writing is on the wall!

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox case could pit extradition treaty against U.S. Constitution
Terry Baynes, Reuters
First posted: Friday, March 29, 2013 03:35 PM EDT | Updated: Friday, March 29, 2013 03:44 PM EDT
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/03/29/am ... nstitution


"Other defendants who have been acquitted in other countries and then convicted on appeal have attempted to raise the double jeopardy principle to avoid extradition, without much success, said Mary Fan, a law professor at the University of Washington who specializes in cross-border criminal law.
...
While the issue is rare in the United States, several courts have rejected the double jeopardy argument in similar cases. In 2010, a federal court in California found that a man who was acquitted of murder in Mexico and later convicted after prosecutors appealed the acquittal, could not claim double jeopardy to avoid extradition to Mexico. That court cited a 1974 decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, that reached the same conclusion with respect to Canadian law, which also allows the government to appeal an acquittal.

When asked about the potential extradition of Knox at a press briefing on Tuesday, a spokesman for the U.S. State Department said the question was hypothetical and declined to comment."


Thanks for posting this. I've read this article earlier and I believe it is more of a question if Italy decides to request the extradition of Amanda Knox should her conviction be upheld than the U.S. refusing to extradite her.

Those who claim double jeopardy are either ignorant about how the Italian appeals process works or they deliberately choose to dismiss it because it's convenient.


They just find it easier to live in denial. Just keep creating fantasy after fantasy.

_________________
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~ Winston Churchill mike


THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
PMF ON TWITTER
PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I thought it would be interesting to capture Knox's Harper Collins bio before it was updated to reflect her conviction for calunnia and annulment of her acquittal for murder, sexual assault, staging a crime scene, transporting a weapon, and burglary.

Quote:
Amanda Knox spent four years in a foreign prison for a crime she did not commit.

In the fall of 2007, the 20-year-old college coed left Seattle to study abroad in Italy, but her life was shattered when her roommate was murdered in their apartment.

After a controversial trial, Amanda was convicted and imprisoned. But in 2011, an appeals court overturned the decision and vacated the murder charge. Free at last, she returned home to the U.S., where she has remained silent, until now.

Filled with details first recorded in the journals Knox kept while in Italy, Waiting to Be Heard is a remarkable story of innocence, resilience, and courage, and of one young woman’s hard-fought battle to overcome injustice and win the freedom she deserved.

With intelligence, grace, and candor, Amanda Knox tells the full story of her harrowing ordeal in Italy—a labyrinthine nightmare of crime and punishment, innocence and vindication—and of the unwavering support of family and friends who tirelessly worked to help her win her freedom.

http://www.harpercollins.com/books/Wait ... 0062217202
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

In case anyone is interested, this spells out the bilateral extradition treaty between Italy and the US:

http://internationalextraditionblog.fil ... /italy.pdf
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Grandma Huff spoke out today, Amanda is strolling through a Seattle Park looking pensive, and sorry, this is a dm article again:

Pictured: Amanda Knox emerges for the first time since finding out she will be retried for murdering Meredith Kercher
By Hannah Roberts In Rome and Rachel Quigley
PUBLISHED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013 | UPDATED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rcher.html

"She (Elisabeth Huff) told the Italian newspaper La Stampa: 'It's a persecution. She has already been tried twice. Why reopen it.
The prosecutors want to find other guilty parties at any cost and they will never give up. That is the view of Amanda and our entire family.
'Because of this Amanda will not return to Italy for the new trial. She will never go back. No one in our family will.' "


It is clear to me that Amanda Knox knew her photo would be taken when she was "strolling through the park". Just compare them to others we have seen from her regularly. She always looks somewhat messy. In these photos she is dressed ok, first time I've ever seen her wearing ballerinas instead of sneakers or boots, and her hair is styled in a neat braid. That's not a coincidence in my opinion.


Maybe she pre-sold the photos - which would explain why her hair is done in an old fashioned, sensible style, she's wearing make up, her shoes are sensible and she is strolling alone in a park.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:56 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
American Jezebel Amanda Knox to face justice
Exclusive: Ilana Mercer reveals latest in murder case that captured world's attention

Quote:
“Five, three and one” is how Wendy Murphy, law professor and flamboyant TV talker, counted the preponderance of forensic and circumstantial evidence that had originally convicted America’s sweetheart, Amanda Knox, of murdering Briton Meredith Kercher, in Perugia, Italy, in November 2007.

In 2011, Knox’s subsequent 2009 conviction was overturned, due in no small part to a PR blitz mounted by the Knox clan and their Seattle-based publicist. A veritable media mafia thronged to put the Italian judicial system on trial for railroading their cherub.

Agitating for Amanda were mass murderer Hillary Clinton, corrupt King County Superior Court Judge Michael Heavey – he abused his office (my state; my taxes) to petition members of the Italian judiciary on behalf of Knox, in violation of Washington state’s Code of Judicial Conduct—Democratic Sen. Maria Cantwell (she misspells her surname), ubiquitous tele-attorney Anne Bremner, public relations adviser David Marriott and “48 Hours” correspondent Peter Van Sant, who had abandoned impartiality for outright advocacy.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/american-jez ... erlrlBU.99


I really enjoyed that article!
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:23 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Thanks for posting this. I've read this article earlier and I believe it is more of a question if Italy decides to request the extradition of Amanda Knox should her conviction be upheld than the U.S. refusing to extradite her.

Those who claim double jeopardy are either ignorant about how the Italian appeals process works or they deliberately choose to dismiss it because it's convenient.


Exactly. Here's Popper's expert opinion on the extradition issue, once again. A very helpful explanation of "ne bis in idem" ["not twice in the same [thing]"], in simple terms, good and easy to understand.

Popper wrote:
Ref a future extradition in case of request of arrest or final conviction ... double jeopardy does not apply as:

(a) double jeopardy is illegal also in Italy (a principle which existed hundreds of years before the discovery of America, "ne bis in idem" in Roman Law)

(b) in the US/Italy extradition treaty double jeopardy is when the person to be extradited [eg Knox] has been judged for the same crime in the USA (in the treaty "the requested party", see below) which is not the case here, Knox was never under trial in the USA for this crime (the above assuming AK stays in the US, if she moves to other country the treaty with another country will apply)

(c) most importantly, the cancellation of the appeal trial is not double jeopardy in any way or form as someone is guilty or innocent only when Cassazione renders final the sentence, the 3 steps are part of the same proceeding.

AK was only provisionally convicted in first degree and then provisionally acquitted in appeal awaiting for Cassazione, no verdict was final. A proceeding is always first degree, appeal and Cassazione, no verdict is final until Cassazione rules (unless the parties never appeal in which case after a certain period of time the sentence is final). Appeals are granted automatically if there is a request by defence or prosecution. Therefore the new appeal is not a re-trial, just a new appeal. It is needed as appeal did not follow law according to Supreme Cassazione Court [we will soon find all the reasons but reading PG document we know the requests].

Cassazione sometimes cancels without new appeal and renders the initial sentence final but in criminal cases generally the court allows a new appeal to guarantee defendants.

State of the art will be the first trial. Note that the first trial was not cancelled, only the appeal. Theoretically also the first trial could be cancelled but was not. The appeal was considered irregular - and therefore invalid - not the first trial. AK and RS were convicted for murder in the first trial and today, with the cancellation of the appeal, are again provisionally convicted for murder to 26 and 25 years in jail awaiting for appeal and then Cassazione. Only after a final Cassazione sentence - a final judgement of conviction or acquittal - "ne bis in idem" will kick in.

Ref the crime of slander, which I understand was confirmed and AK convicted finally by Cassazione, ne bis in idem already works. She cannot be retried for that crime.

Cassazione is likely to say why certain mistakes made the appeal an invalid trial. They will write it up in detail. We will soon know. Cassazione may therefore give some procedural guidance to conduct the new appeal by the law but will not enter in the decision of merit on the guilt or innocence of the accused which will stay with first degree and appeal courts.

-------------------------------article of Extradition treaty 1983
ARTICLE VI
Non Bis in Idem
Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or
pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for
which extradition is requested.


I found this bit interesting in the Toronto Sun article posted by Ava:

Quote:
Depending on the Italian high court’s reason for overturning Knox’s acquittal, it is possible that the court of appeals could consider new evidence that’s introduced, said Dalla Vedova. As a result, a defendant can effectively be retried in the course of one case in Italy.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/03/29/amanda-knox-case-could-pit-extradition-treaty-against-us-constitution

So, my question is: does that mean that the prosecution can introduce new evidence in the new appeal trial or not?
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:36 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

'Amanda is being persecuted': Knox's grandmother accuses Italy of 'harassment' as she insists student will NEVER return to face retrial for murdering Meredith Kercher

DAILY MAIL

Italy vs Knox .. why?


picture of a pumpkin
This Post has been edited by a Moderator
Details: Technical Edit: Fixed link as it was stretching forum


Last edited by ttrroonniicc on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Was going to post something else ... whatever posted, made to feel: "persecutors", "haters" .. It's started up again.

That's despite the overwhelming evidence against the pair. Don't forget Guede is not the killer but he's in jail for it. "Black man found black man guilty" (as Guede recounted Sollecito informing him that night). The whole lot has started up again. Guede was framed. Knox was going through a list of names with Soll. in the Questura; who to frame. They were supposed to have an agreement. Sollecito reneged, accused Knox. Knox automatically accused Lumumba. The 'beau' of Knox maintained for years that Knox wasn't with him on the night.

Parallel universe of MSM spin shifts into the low gear (Nina Burleigh in Time magazine):

I went to Italy thinking I was writing a book about an American girl psycho. After a month in Perugia, I realized the case was shaky, and after a year there, I knew it was nonexistent.

http://world.time.com/2013/03/29/the-amanda-knox-haters-society-how-they-learned-to-hate-me-too/


Last edited by ttrroonniicc on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Nell wrote:
Thanks for posting this. I've read this article earlier and I believe it is more of a question if Italy decides to request the extradition of Amanda Knox should her conviction be upheld than the U.S. refusing to extradite her.

Those who claim double jeopardy are either ignorant about how the Italian appeals process works or they deliberately choose to dismiss it because it's convenient.


Exactly. Here's Popper's expert opinion on the extradition issue, once again. A very helpful explanation of "ne bis in idem", in simple terms, good and easy to understand.

Popper wrote:
Ref a future extradition in case of request of arrest or final conviction ... double jeopardy does not apply as:

(a) double jeopardy is illegal also in Italy (a principle which existed hundreds of years before the discovery of America, "ne bis in idem" in Roman Law)

(b) in the US/Italy extradition treaty double jeopardy is when the person to be extradited [eg Knox] has been judged for the same crime in the USA (in the treaty "the requested party", see below) which is not the case here, Knox was never under trial in the USA for this crime (the above assuming AK stays in the US, if she moves to other country the treaty with another country will apply)

(c) most importantly, the cancellation of the appeal trial is not double jeopardy in any way or form as someone is guilty or innocent only when Cassazione renders final the sentence, the 3 steps are part of the same proceeding.

AK was only provisionally convicted in first degree and then provisionally acquitted in appeal awaiting for Cassazione, no verdict was final. A proceeding is always first degree, appeal and Cassazione, no verdict is final until Cassazione rules (unless the parties never appeal in which case after a certain period of time the sentence is final). Appeals are granted automatically if there is a request by defence or prosecution. Therefore the new appeal is not a re-trial, just a new appeal. It is needed as appeal did not follow law according to Supreme Cassazione Court [we will soon find all the reasons but reading PG document we know the requests].

Cassazione sometimes cancels without new appeal and renders the initial sentence final but in criminal cases generally the court allows a new appeal to guarantee defendants.

State of the art will be the first trial. Note that the first trial was not cancelled, only the appeal. Theoretically also the first trial could be cancelled but was not. The appeal was considered irregular - and therefore invalid - not the first trial. AK and RS were convicted for murder in the first trial and today, with the cancellation of the appeal, are again provisionally convicted for murder to 26 and 25 years in jail awaiting for appeal and then Cassazione. Only after a final Cassazione sentence - a final judgement of conviction or acquittal - "ne bis in idem" will kick in.

Ref the crime of slander, which I understand was confirmed and AK convicted finally by Cassazione, ne bis in idem already works. She cannot be retried for that crime.

Cassazione is likely to say why certain mistakes made the appeal an invalid trial. They will write it up in detail. We will soon know. Cassazione may therefore give some procedural guidance to conduct the new appeal by the law but will not enter in the decision of merit on the guilt or innocence of the accused which will stay with first degree and appeal courts.

-------------------------------article of Extradition treaty 1983
ARTICLE VI
Non Bis in Idem
Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or
pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for
which extradition is requested.


I found this bit interesting in the Toronto Sun article posted by Ava:

Quote:
Depending on the Italian high court’s reason for overturning Knox’s acquittal, it is possible that the court of appeals could consider new evidence that’s introduced, said Dalla Vedova. As a result, a defendant can effectively be retried in the course of one case in Italy.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/03/29/amanda-knox-case-could-pit-extradition-treaty-against-us-constitution

So, my question is: does that mean that the prosecution can introduce new evidence in the new appeal trial or not?


Thanks for the additional info. I see a couple of areas where there could be problems. I think that a legal argument would be made that Knox was convicted, acquitted, and served a portion of the imposed sentence for the same acts for which extradiction would be requested. Another argument could be based on the length of time between crime and trial. It's already been six years and the appeal will take another year. There's also the issue of the court documentation. Lawyers for Knox could make the cost of extradition insurmountable by requesting that every single document be translated to English.

Article VI
Non Bis in Idem

"Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for which extradition is requested"

Article VIII

Relates to lapse of time

Articles X, XI

Relates to court documentation

Article XII

There could be a provisional arrest

Article XXI

Requesting party pays for the translation of all documents

http://internationalextraditionblog.fil ... /italy.pdf
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
'Amanda is being persecuted': Knox's grandmother accuses Italy of 'harassment' as she insists student will NEVER return to face retrial for murdering Meredith Kercher

DAILY MAIL

Italy vs Knox .. why?


It's not surprising that Knox will never willingly return to Italy. What was surprising was that Knox said, until now, that she has eager to return to Italy. If she really suffered so much in Italy, why would she want to return? Wouldn't that, for example, be like a rape victim wanting to revisit the place where she was raped ... doesn't make any sense. Yet Knox has always said that she wants to return to the place where she claims she had the worst experience of her life. It doesn't add up properly.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Italians should fly in a tv crew to UW to ask how the students feel having her around. It seems there still are crews from NBC and CNN in Italy asking people for their take on it. But as one reporter complained to me, 'most people don't care about the case any more, and they're there because the networks are pushing the story.


That's a very interesting issue. Joran van der Sloot tried to study in the Netherlands at the time that he was accused of murder, but not convicted of anything. Students were very uncomfortable with him on campus. He was asked to leave and study in a sister-school somewhere in Asia (don't remember exactly where). He didn't fare much better there and eventually dropped out.

I can understand that students would be very uncomfortable if Knox were in a class, but perhaps she is completing her studies through independent studies, or maybe she's going to be granted a master's degree for writing her book.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:57 am   Post subject: KNOX INTERROGATION TIMELINE   

I hope it's okay to post this here. Catnip has put together the "interrogation" timeline; one that adds up to 32 or 54 hours, depending on how you count. This has always interested me.
note: I replaced the two tables with one and added colour.

Quote:
The “amount of time that Amanda was interrogated over 5 days” (2-Nov to 6-Nov, inclusive) was:

32 hours
37 hours
40 hours
49 and a bit hours (~50 hrs)
53 hours and 45 minutes (~54 hrs)

All these times are correct (!!), depending on how you round up or down, and what you mean by ‘interrogated’.

In Ghirga and Dalla Vedova’s appeal from the trial court, they itemise dates, times and durations.

The first day’s worth of interviews (from 2-Nov-2007 15:30 to 3-Nov-2007 3:00) gives you 11 hours 30 minutes (call it 12 hrs).

The second day’s worth of interviews (from 3-Nov-2007 14:45 to 3-Nov-2007 22:00) gives you 7 hours 15 minutes (call it 8 hrs).

The third day was spent at the cottage (from 4-Nov-2007 14:45 to 4-Nov-2007 21:00), which gives you 6 hours 15 minutes, plus another 5 hours at the police station (as mentioned by Amanda in a phone call to her aunt), which gives a total of 11 hours 15 minutes (call it 12 hrs).

The fourth day, the infamous day, when Raffaele withdrew his alibi and Amanda accused Patrick, went from 5-Nov-2007 22:00 to 6-Nov-2007 1:45, which gives you 3 hours 45 minutes (call it 5 hrs, to be generous).

The next stint went from 6-Nov-2007 1:45 to 6-Nov-2007 5:45, which is actually 4 hours (but G&DV call it 3 hours 45 minutes).

This gives a total of 32 hours 45 minutes actual elapsed time (if you forgot to manually add in the 5 hours mentioned in the phone call on the third day), or 37 hours 45 minutes (if you add in that 5 hours).

Add up all the claimed durations as you’ve called it (12 + 8 + 12 + 5 + 3.75 = 40.75) and you get 40 hours 45 minutes.

The last bit is the time from the arrest (6-Nov-2007 8:40) to the time of the last note being handed over to the investigating officers (6-Nov-2007 20:00), which gives you 11 hours and 20 minutes (call it 12 hours).

When you add that in, you get either 49 hours and a bit actual elapsed time (if you’ve remembered that 5 hours from the third day), or you get your claimed total so far of 40 hours 45 minutes plus another 12 hours = 52 hours 45 minutes (which is close enough to what G&DV claimed).

“In 5 giorni la Knox è stata sentita per un totale di circa 53,45 h.”
(Over 5 days, Ms Knox had been interviewed for a total of about 53h 45m.)

There are 120 hours in 5 days: 53h 45m is 45% of that time, almost half. An average of 10h 45m per day. That’s a lot of time.

And that’s not counting time spent doing gymnastic displays, sleeping on the chairs, doing homework while waiting for the boyfriend, making faces at and with the boyfriend, discussing possible fall guys, making phone calls to known drug dealers and others, telling Meredith’s friends in the waiting room how and where she died, drinking camomile tea and having snacks, and all the rest – unless the definition of “interrogate” is to be widened much more broadly from its usual meaning.


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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi everybody,

if you'd like to read the transcripts of the two AC360 episodes that aired on March 25 & 26, go to the CNN Transcripts website:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/acd.html

For your convenience, I've extracted relevant passages from the transcript and pasted them into two Word docs - feel free to download and read them at your leisure. The transcripts will disappear from the CNN website in a few weeks.

Attachment:
AC360 Transcript 03-25-2013.docx

Attachment:
AC360 Transcript 03-26-2013.docx


Here's Ted Simon again, in conversation with Anderson Cooper on 25 March 2013.



You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
I found this bit interesting in the Toronto Sun article posted by Ava:

Quote:
Depending on the Italian high court’s reason for overturning Knox’s acquittal, it is possible that the court of appeals could consider new evidence that’s introduced, said Dalla Vedova. As a result, a defendant can effectively be retried in the course of one case in Italy.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/03/29/amanda-knox-case-could-pit-extradition-treaty-against-us-constitution

So, my question is: does that mean that the prosecution can introduce new evidence in the new appeal trial or not?


That's an interesting question. Can the autobiographies of Sollecito and Knox be brought into the mix? I wonder how those stories conflict with the facts, and whether any new slander charges will be brought.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Hi everybody,

if you'd like to read the transcripts of the two AC360 episodes that aired on March 25 & 26, go to the CNN Transcripts website:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/acd.html


Did he put his foot in his mouth?

Ted Simon Before the Decision (syntax added):

"The appellate court jury had the authority and the jurisdiction to review whether or not the trial court committed any legal error. They had the authority and the jurisdiction to re-evaluate the facts and determine what the true facts were. When they did that, they acted within their authority when they reopened, reinvestigated, re-evaluated and ultimately re-determined what the true facts were. When they did that, whether it was in regard to prosecution witness testimony, physical evidence, or prosecution forensic conclusions, they ultimately determined that either it was absent, nonexistent, inaccurate, unreliable, or simply wrong.

And that's why they reversed. And that's why we're here today. The Supreme Court has a much narrower scope of review. All they're supposed to do is to look and see whether or not the appellate court jury acted within its jurisdiction and according to the proper rules. And that's why everyone remains reasonably hopeful without prejudging what they will do ... that they'll just affirm the appellate court ...

We all are hopeful that this Supreme Court will recognize that the appellate court jury brightly illuminated that this case originally was prefaced on wholly inaccurate and unreliable information."
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:53 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Could Article VIII, time elapsed since crime, be negated because Knox had the opportunity to opt for the fast track trial and declined?

Regarding Article XXI, there should be a restriction such that only decisions would be translated - in which case, the decisions are already translated. Knox/Mellas crew would argue for a re-analysis of the evidence.

What about Article XVIII, could that mean that Knox and Sollecito's book profits could be forfeited? I wonder if paperwork has been filed for that action.

Article XVIII

Provides for the seizure and surrender to the requesting state of all property related to the offence for which extradition is requested. This obligation is subject to the rights of third parties.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:05 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I've been looking at this photo for the last 15 minutes trying to figure out if Knox has some sort of skin rash, wondering if she picked up this condition in prison, or during her travels in Germany and Perugia before she met Sollecito. She was promiscuous, like Arias. Maybe the photographer's lens wasn't clean ...

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox's ex Raffaele Sollecito sets up company to profit from cold cases
From: AFP, March 29, 2013 2:11AM
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/amand ... 6608822372


"THE co-defendant in Amanda Knox's retrial for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher has set up a company to review cold cases and make money from them, Italian media have reported.
Raffaele Sollecito, who is completing a degree in information technology, has registered "Experience Teller" in Switzerland with capital of 100,000 Swiss francs ($100,000), the reports said.

"I think this entrepreneurial idea is brilliant and clearly it is very linked to his personal experience," Roberto Segala, Sollecito's university lecturer in Verona in northern Italy, was quoted as saying.

"The idea is to collate large amounts of information on unresolved cases in to provoke large-scale interest and provide relevant consultancy in various fields to resolve them, including through information technology," he said. The revenue would come from selling books and films about the cases."



In other words, a murder marketing company! How utterly crass and just what we would expect from the likes of Sollecito. But then, he's had the best of the bottom feeders around him to learn from.


A "murder marketing company"? Bruce Fischer oughta sue for copyright infringement!
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Jackie,
Would Knox's refusal to personally attend the appeal when there is no requirement for her to personally attend, and where she's represented by counsel, be considered 'being tried in abstenia' in today's world?

(When Camp Knox announced Knox would attend her parent's slander trial a year or so ago, they quickly backtracked and that she would be making her appearance via a video feed which the courts allowed.)


Hi Lou,

That's an interesting question. If by "today's world" you mean "the common law world" or, more specifically, the U.S., consider this: In Crosby v. United States (91-6194), 506 U.S. 255 (1993), the Supreme Court ruled that, pursuant to Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 43, an accused who 'pulls a Sfarzo' (pleads not guilty/posts bond/fails to appear for trial) cannot be tried in absentia.

An accused who flees during trial, however, can, under Rule 43, be tried in absentia on the ground that "the defendant's initial presence [at the beginning of trial] serves to assure that any waiver [of "the right to be present"] is indeed knowing...[because i]t is unlikely that... 'a defendant who flees from a courtroom in the midst of a trial -- where judge, jury, witnesses and lawyers are present and ready to continue -- would not know that as a consequence the trial could continue in his absence.' "

So, is Knox's situation more akin to that of an accused who flees before trial, not knowing that the trial could continue in their absence, or that of an accused who flees during trial, knowing that the trial could continue in their absence?

As for the role to be played by video feeds, I cannot say - adoption of this technology in common law jurisdictions is becoming an increasingly important issue. I'm aware of a recent case in my (common law) neck o' the woods where an appellate court set aside a conviction on the ground that the trial judge erred by refusing to allow a key witness to testify via video link from a foreign jurisdiction.

Does witness testimony via video link allow triers to sufficiently assess 'demeanor'? Can this technology allow accused to fully exercise their constitutional rights in proceedings against them? It will be interesting to see what the highest courts in the common law world make of these technological advancements.
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Offline Jackie


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
I'd prolly have to see how you play..


I'd love to set that up, Cape ;-)

We just might have some major, Vegas-style celebrating to do when this case is closed.

(It feels so nice to have Demigod Dershowitz endorsing your opinion.)
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox case could pit extradition treaty against U.S. Constitution
Terry Baynes, Reuters
First posted: Friday, March 29, 2013 03:35 PM EDT | Updated: Friday, March 29, 2013 03:44 PM EDT
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/03/29/am ... nstitution


"Other defendants who have been acquitted in other countries and then convicted on appeal have attempted to raise the double jeopardy principle to avoid extradition, without much success, said Mary Fan, a law professor at the University of Washington who specializes in cross-border criminal law.
...
While the issue is rare in the United States, several courts have rejected the double jeopardy argument in similar cases. In 2010, a federal court in California found that a man who was acquitted of murder in Mexico and later convicted after prosecutors appealed the acquittal, could not claim double jeopardy to avoid extradition to Mexico. That court cited a 1974 decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, that reached the same conclusion with respect to Canadian law, which also allows the government to appeal an acquittal.

When asked about the potential extradition of Knox at a press briefing on Tuesday, a spokesman for the U.S. State Department said the question was hypothetical and declined to comment."


Thanks for posting this. I've read this article earlier and I believe it is more of a question if Italy decides to request the extradition of Amanda Knox should her conviction be upheld than the U.S. refusing to extradite her.

Those who claim double jeopardy are either ignorant about how the Italian appeals process works or they deliberately choose to dismiss it because it's convenient.


It's not hard to understand why double jeopardy doesn't apply, is it, if even Dalla Vedova says so publicly.

I still remember Alan Dershowitz' words from one of your last posts though:
"Still, a sympathetic U.S. State Department or judge might find that her appellate acquittal was final enough to preclude extradition on double-jeopardy grounds."
Also, I wonder what Ted Simon might have in store. This is his field of expertise, isn't it. Simple delay strategy, or something else...?
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Ava wrote:
Amanda Knox's ex Raffaele Sollecito sets up company to profit from cold cases
From: AFP, March 29, 2013 2:11AM
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/amand ... 6608822372


"THE co-defendant in Amanda Knox's retrial for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher has set up a company to review cold cases and make money from them, Italian media have reported.
Raffaele Sollecito, who is completing a degree in information technology, has registered "Experience Teller" in Switzerland with capital of 100,000 Swiss francs ($100,000), the reports said.

"I think this entrepreneurial idea is brilliant and clearly it is very linked to his personal experience," Roberto Segala, Sollecito's university lecturer in Verona in northern Italy, was quoted as saying.

"The idea is to collate large amounts of information on unresolved cases in to provoke large-scale interest and provide relevant consultancy in various fields to resolve them, including through information technology," he said. The revenue would come from selling books and films about the cases."



In other words, a murder marketing company! How utterly crass and just what we would expect from the likes of Sollecito. But then, he's had the best of the bottom feeders around him to learn from.


My prediction is he's not clever enough to sell either films or books (as we could see), but it is very crass, that's true.
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Offline indie


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Change.org is now slamming college student's inboxes with this petition:



Quote:
-- There's a new petition taking off on Change.org, and we think you might be interested in signing it:

Don't allow US citizen Amanda Knox to be tried for a second time when an Italian court already found her not guilty

Sign the Petition
President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder, and Members of Congress: Save Amanda Knox from a Re-Trial

Started by: Nathaniel, Newport News, Virginia

In 2007, Amanda Knox - an American college student living and studying abroad - were arrested in Italy and charged with the murder of Meredith Kercher.

Despite a weak case from the prosecution, Knox was held in an Italian prison for nearly four years throughout the duration of her trial. In December of 2011, Knox was acquitted and released from prison. She returned home with her family in Seattle in the hopes of moving forward with the rest of her life.

However, news broke this morning that Italian officials are demanding that Knox - who has already been found not guilty - stand trial for murder AGAIN.

In America, once a person has been found 'not guilty' of a crime, it is their constitutional right to never have to stand trial for that crime again.

What is happening to Amanda Knox is unfair and unjust. The prosecution could not create a solidified case when they had the chance - and they should not be able to torture an American citizen with endless re-trials.

This petition is a demand from the American people that our government stand up for the rights of Amanda Knox, denounce the re-trial, and protect this young woman with every political and legal tool at their disposal.

Mr. President, Mr. Attorney General, Members of Congress - I implore you to rise to the occasion, protect Amanda Knox from this retrial, and set a precedent that the United States will not allow its citizens to be treated unjustly by the legal systems of foreign nations.

Click here to sign Nathaniel's petition, "President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder, and Members of Congress: Save Amanda Knox from a Re-Trial".

You can also check out other popular petitions on Change.org by clicking here.




My daughter knows I have followed this case since day 1 and she has forwarded this to me. Blind leading the blind comes to mind. Anyone can make a petition so I am not sure when this started but it is now hitting the college student population in mass.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
My prediction is he's not clever enough to sell either films or books (as we could see), but it is very crass, that's true.


The thing is, he doesn't need to be clever enough, Ava. He just needs to have enough money to be able to hire people who are. And you can bet certain names we're very familiar with would be clamoring for a job!

Having made as much money as he can from his own murder, he's now seeking to make money off of others. I can't think of anything more wrong then that. Thank God his appeal was overturned!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi Indie :)

Perhaps someone should make a counter petition.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

What many people are forgetting about, the media included, is that Knox also has another trial for calunnia coming up. If she is found guilty in that not only will she be facing even more years in jail, but when it comes to her challenging extradition she will have another court finding against her demonstrating that she was lying about police mistreatment. In other words, she'd have lost one of her angles to challenge her extradition. I can see her Italian lawyers working desperately to try and delay her calunnia trial until after her new appeal for this reason.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:33 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

What I'm enjoying the most is the silence from Chris Mellas and Curt and Edda Knox. Right now, they desperately want to be doing interviews left right and center, as they have always done, but they are now effectively gagged in the face of a court ruling they never expected by the book contract. I'm thinking they are desperately wanting to cancel the publication of that book now, but it's too late. They sold their souls to the Devil and now they have to dance to his tune. They can't stop that book and any attempt by Knox to do so would see her sued into oblivion. I for one am very much looking forward to the book :)

Karma can be a bitch!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Now, we just need to find out...who bought Frank Sforza a brand new car??? :)

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Ava wrote:
My prediction is he's not clever enough to sell either films or books (as we could see), but it is very crass, that's true.


The thing is, he doesn't need to be clever enough, Ava. He just needs to have enough money to be able to hire people who are. And you can bet certain names we're very familiar with would be clamoring for a job!

Having made as much money as he can from his own murder, he's now seeking to make money off of others. I can't think of anything more wrong then that. Thank God his appeal was overturned!!!


Yes, true. I was thinking that you still need a certain instinct for hiring the right people though, and the ones involved in the "Honor Bound" project didn't strike me as ecpecially bright. But maybe I'm wrong. The only thing I'm hoping for then is that he will direct, co-direct or whatever his little murder company from prison.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
Ava wrote:
My prediction is he's not clever enough to sell either films or books (as we could see), but it is very crass, that's true.


The thing is, he doesn't need to be clever enough, Ava. He just needs to have enough money to be able to hire people who are. And you can bet certain names we're very familiar with would be clamoring for a job!

Having made as much money as he can from his own murder, he's now seeking to make money off of others. I can't think of anything more wrong then that. Thank God his appeal was overturned!!!


Yes, true. I was thinking that you still need a certain instinct for hiring the right people though, and the ones involved in the "Honor Bound" project didn't strike me as ecpecially bright. But maybe I'm wrong. The only thing I'm hoping for then is that he will direct, co-direct or whatever his little murder company from prison.


When I think Switzerland, I think chocolates and bank accounts. I think I'd follow the money.Does he own this business himself? Does he have investors?
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
Ava wrote:
My prediction is he's not clever enough to sell either films or books (as we could see), but it is very crass, that's true.


The thing is, he doesn't need to be clever enough, Ava. He just needs to have enough money to be able to hire people who are. And you can bet certain names we're very familiar with would be clamoring for a job!

Having made as much money as he can from his own murder, he's now seeking to make money off of others. I can't think of anything more wrong then that. Thank God his appeal was overturned!!!


Yes, true. I was thinking that you still need a certain instinct for hiring the right people though, and the ones involved in the "Honor Bound" project didn't strike me as ecpecially bright. But maybe I'm wrong. The only thing I'm hoping for then is that he will direct, co-direct or whatever his little murder company from prison.


When I think Switzerland, I think chocolates and bank accounts. I think I'd follow the money.Does he own this business himself? Does he have investors?


I believe it's registered under his name, Napia.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Lugano, le tracce che portano a Raffaele Sollecito
Giovedì 28 Marzo 2013
http://www.corrieredicomo.it/index.php? ... ima-pagina

rough google trans:

"Earlier this month, then became chief executive of Experience Teller Media & Web Management, a limited company with an authorized capital of 100 thousand Swiss francs and offices in Via Aldesago 135, Lugano.
...
"Traces" left by Raffaele Sollecito in Swiss land are clear. The first is to subscribe to the Commercial Register of the Canton of Ticino. Sollecito is, as mentioned, the sole director of a corporation that has as its purpose the promotion and publicizing of public figures including through web and programming aimed at telling the stories related to real events or pure fantasy. " But also "an extensive collection of information on unsolved court cases to arouse new interest in large-scale and provide appropriate skills in various fields (including information) for the resolution of the same." This company is located in a residential building of Aldesago, mountain hamlet of Lugano, above Ruvigliana.
...
He chose as the headquarters of his company an apartment in a building that overlooks the lake, in the residential area of ​​the city in Ticino. A neighborhood where the houses have prices that range between 20 thousand and 25 thousand francs per square meter and where to rent an apartment of 60-70 meters serve not less than 4 thousand francs.
...
Of course, Sollecito left the initial site of Teller Media & Web Experience Management, established at the end of November last year with another managing director, Andrea Scialanga, vice president of a trust rather notes in Lugano.
We're talking about Pieffeci Professional Consulting.
...
Even in this case, the cameras and notebooks are not able to penetrate the classic Swiss restraint. The intercom, a collaborator of Pieffeci explained that none of the holders of the trust was in place.
"They are engaged in off-site meetings for today do not come back." Therefore impossible to know how and why November 23 last year was born the Teller Media & Web Experience Management Raffaele Sollecito."


(this is rather raw, sorry, I don't have much time)


Last edited by Ava on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:40 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I saw this article about the 're-write' of Knox's book.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ng-1789102

I'm more than a little skeptical about both the re-write and Sollecito's new business. It flies in the face of logic that the Publishers would not have planned for some brushing up of the book if things turned against Knox with the SC. I doubt this was a major undertaking.

Raffaele's new business so far is probably on paper more than anything else. Surely he wouldn't have made any major financial commitment at this point?
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I saw this article about the 're-write' of Knox's book.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ng-1789102

I'm more than a little skeptical about both the re-write and Sollecito's new business. It flies in the face of logic that the Publishers would not have planned for some brushing up of the book if things turned against Knox with the SC. I doubt this was a major undertaking.



Me too.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:03 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Raffaele's new business so far is probably on paper more than anything else. Surely he wouldn't have made any major financial commitment at this point?


Didn't I read somewhere earlier that he's invested 100,000 euros in it?

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

He has.

http://www.moneyhouse.ch/en/u/experienc ... .146-8.htm
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I saw this article about the 're-write' of Knox's book.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ng-1789102

I'm more than a little skeptical about both the re-write and Sollecito's new business. It flies in the face of logic that the Publishers would not have planned for some brushing up of the book if things turned against Knox with the SC. I doubt this was a major undertaking.

Raffaele's new business so far is probably on paper more than anything else. Surely he wouldn't have made any major financial commitment at this point?


If the book needs to be re-written to ensure that she doesn't get into more hot water because of making false statements, wouldn't that mean that she has written a work of fiction? If her book is all truth, then there shouldn't be a problem.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks Ava. It looks like it's 100,000 Swiss Francs, not 100,000 euros. I just want to copy the content of your link below, for posterity:

EXPERIENCE TELLER MEDIA & WEB MANAGEMENT SA
Via Aldesago 135
6974 Aldesago


Status: active
Capital: CHF 100'000
Most recent amendment: 06.03.2013

Overview

Entry in the commercial register: 20.11.2012
Legal domicile of the company: Lugano (TI)
Number of the commercial register: CH-501.3.017.146-8
Commercial Registry: Canton of Ticino

Purpose

Promote and advertise the activities of public figures and private, including through Web and programming aimed at storytelling, referring to real events or pure fantasy. After regular office from interested parties, establish contacts with publishers and / or movie studios, publication and sale of manuscripts and / or film-making. The company also offers the first extensive collection of information on unsolved court cases to arouse new interest in large-scale and provide appropriate skills in various fields (including information) for the resolution of the same.

1 Proprietor listed and a board consisting of 2 individuals.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Do you think the plan was to reward all his new 'friends' with jobs/contracts with his new company?

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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

ttrroonniicc wrote:
Was going to post something else ... whatever posted, made to feel: "persecutors", "haters" .. It's started up again.

That's despite the overwhelming evidence against the pair. Don't forget Guede is not the killer but he's in jail for it. "Black man found black man guilty" (as Guede recounted Sollecito informing him that night). The whole lot has started up again. Guede was framed. Knox was going through a list of names with Soll. in the Questura; who to frame. They were supposed to have an agreement. Sollecito reneged, accused Knox. Knox automatically accused Lumumba. The 'beau' of Knox maintained for years that Knox wasn't with him on the night.

Parallel universe of MSM spin shifts into the low gear (Nina Burleigh in Time magazine):

I went to Italy thinking I was writing a book about an American girl psycho. After a month in Perugia, I realized the case was shaky, and after a year there, I knew it was nonexistent.

http://world.time.com/2013/03/29/the-amanda-knox-haters-society-how-they-learned-to-hate-me-too/


One-two-three-four,
I declare a blog war!


I haven't seen any evidence the Knox advocates had any contingency plans in place for this outcome.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Do you think the plan was to reward all his new 'friends' with jobs/contracts with his new company?


This article suggests it was set to 'put the Knox case on the screen'. It also claims he has purchased a home there, but that now that his legal status no longer includes the second level acquittal, his entry into Switzerland isn't secure despite having obtained a residence permit.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... pe-retrial


Last edited by louiehaha on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:43 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The (unconfirmed) rumour du jour is that the new local administration in Lugano may set aside its predecessor's decision to grant Sollecito a residence permit and revoke it, because an applicant for the permit cannot be a fugitive or have a criminal conviction (pending an appeal.)

"...However, his plans are now being obstructed by Lugano administration, which is currently going through re-election campaign. Sollecito got the residence permit as his criminal record was cleaned by discharge in appeal but now Swiss right-wing politicians are arguing he should be banned from entering the country."

ALL VOICES
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Michael wrote:
Do you think the plan was to reward all his new 'friends' with jobs/contracts with his new company?


This article suggests he was set to 'put the Knox case on the screen'. It also claims he has purchased a home there, but that now that his legal status no longer includes the second level acquittal, his entry into Switzerland isn't secure despite having obtained a residence permit.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... pe-retrial



At the least though, that should allow him to funnel funds into Switzerland and hide them there, shouldn't it? He's already stashed 100,000 francs there in his business. Add whatever the cost of his apartment is and that's a lot already. I'm sure more will be going the same way. I have a bad feeling that the Kerchers will be struggling to get their compensation from him (and the courts their costs).

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
The (unconfirmed) romour du jour is that the new local administration of Lugano may set aside its predecessor's decision to grant Sollecito a residence permit and revoke it, because an applicant for the permit cannot be a fugitive or have a criminal conviction (pending an appeal.)

"...However, his plans are now being obstructed by Lugano administration, which is currently going through re-election campaign. Sollecito got the residence permit as his criminal record was cleaned by discharge in appeal but now Swiss right-wing politicians are arguing he should be banned from entering the country."

ALL VOICES



Yes, I remember that now. I really hope so! Unfortunately, there's no mention of any mechanism (or will/intention) to seize any cash or assets he has stashed there, be they tied up in property or whatever.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
Michael wrote:
Do you think the plan was to reward all his new 'friends' with jobs/contracts with his new company?


This article suggests he was set to 'put the Knox case on the screen'. It also claims he has purchased a home there, but that now that his legal status no longer includes the second level acquittal, his entry into Switzerland isn't secure despite having obtained a residence permit.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... pe-retrial



At the least though, that should allow him to funnel funds into Switzerland and hide them there, shouldn't it? He's already stashed 100,000 francs there in his business. Add whatever the cost of his apartment is and that's a lot already. I'm sure more will be going the same way. I have a bad feeling that the Kerchers will be struggling to get their compensation from him (and the courts their costs).


I'm thinking what you're thinkiing.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Barbie Nadeau, in her CNN article, claims that because an American fighter jet pilot, an air force colonel and 22 CIA agents were not extradited to Italy, Knox may also be spared extradition. Barbie needs to read Article V of the extradition treaty, which relates to military exemption from the treaty.

"There is a valid extradition agreement between the two nations, but the U.S. has not set much of a precedence in returning suspects for such matters. In 1998, an American fighter jet clipped a ski lift cable sending a gondola of 20 passengers to their death in the Italian Dolomite mountain range.

Italy had requested their extradition to try them for multiple manslaughter, but the U.S. refused and tried them in a military tribunal instead. They were found not guilty.

And in 2012, Italy's high court upheld the conviction of 22 CIA agents and an Air Force colonel in conjunction with the extraordinary rendition of Egyptian cleric Abu Omar from a street in Milan. Again, the U.S. refused to comply with the extradition order. Both previous high-profile cases involved state employees or military members. Knox's case is a private matter with very little precedence."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/27/world ... le_sidebar
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:18 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

America has a long standing policy of not allowing the extradition of its military personal abroad for trial. That policy is internationally well known and understood. It does not apply to Amanda Knox who is a civilian and is instead covered by the extradition treaty signed between the US and Italy.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Transcript of last night's CNN special ("Murder Abroad: The Amanda Knox Story"):

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1303/29/acd.02.html

CNN spin and propAmanda; Drew Griffin, Preston, Knox/Mellas, Simon & Co.

Quote:
JEFF TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The Italian government may say to the United States, "Bring us Amanda Knox. She's been duly convicted in our courts. You have signed an extradition treaty with us. We want her back."

SIMON: So all this discussion really about extradition is not nearly in play. And the other thing you should know, that you know, while we are hopeful that they will simply affirm this prior wrongful conviction, you know, there is nothing that would lead anyone to believe in any of the evidence that there would be any other verdict but one of "not guilty," because there simply is an absence of evidence in this case.

GRIFFIN: Unlike in years past, time is now on Amanda's side.

TOOBIN: The Italian legal system, the extradition system, time doesn't get measured in months. It gets measured in years. She is looking at many years of legal proceedings, but also many years of freedom in the United States before there's even the possibility that she's extradited back to Italy.

GRIFFIN: No small comfort to a 25-year-old woman who just wants to put the nightmare behind her.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:42 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

If Italy applies for Knox's extradition, she doesn't stand a chance. The US will obey the treaty and throw her to the wolves. This is for the following important reason. For the last year or so, America has been engaging in a hyper-aggressive extradition and trial policy of foreign nationals it deems to have engaged in the piracy of media from American music and film industries. It sees this as an economic issue of the same level of import as national security. This policy looks set to continue for a good number of years. In order for the United States to pursue this policy, it therefore relies on the cooperation and goodwill of friendly foreign governments. The US is not going to risk losing the goodwill of the Italian government and with it, leave their copyright policy in its application to Italy, in tatters. Knox is not on any level with national security and they will easily sacrifice her to maintain what is, in the face of a lawful extradition request.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Transcript of last night's CNN special ("Murder Abroad: The Amanda Knox Story"):

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1303/29/acd.02.html

CNN spin and propAmanda; Drew Griffin, Preston, Knox/Mellas, Simon & Co.

Quote:
JEFF TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The Italian government may say to the United States, "Bring us Amanda Knox. She's been duly convicted in our courts. You have signed an extradition treaty with us. We want her back."

SIMON: So all this discussion really about extradition is not nearly in play. And the other thing you should know, that you know, while we are hopeful that they will simply affirm this prior wrongful conviction, you know, there is nothing that would lead anyone to believe in any of the evidence that there would be any other verdict but one of "not guilty," because there simply is an absence of evidence in this case.

GRIFFIN: Unlike in years past, time is now on Amanda's side.

TOOBIN: The Italian legal system, the extradition system, time doesn't get measured in months. It gets measured in years. She is looking at many years of legal proceedings, but also many years of freedom in the United States before there's even the possibility that she's extradited back to Italy.

GRIFFIN: No small comfort to a 25-year-old woman who just wants to put the nightmare behind her.


Jackasses, the whole lot of them. I wonder how much comfort they think the Kerchers get from this?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Jackasses, the whole lot of them. I wonder how much comfort they think the Kerchers get from this?


They couldn't give a FF about the Kerchers. They never have and never will.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox Looks Pretty Sad and This Is Probably Why
By Chelsea Hoffman

GATHER
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Michael wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
Michael wrote:
Do you think the plan was to reward all his new 'friends' with jobs/contracts with his new company?


This article suggests he was set to 'put the Knox case on the screen'. It also claims he has purchased a home there, but that now that his legal status no longer includes the second level acquittal, his entry into Switzerland isn't secure despite having obtained a residence permit.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... pe-retrial



At the least though, that should allow him to funnel funds into Switzerland and hide them there, shouldn't it? He's already stashed 100,000 francs there in his business. Add whatever the cost of his apartment is and that's a lot already. I'm sure more will be going the same way. I have a bad feeling that the Kerchers will be struggling to get their compensation from him (and the courts their costs).


I'm thinking what you're thinkiing.


Of course both Knox and Sollecito will be employing asset protection strategies. At least some of Sollecito's strategy has been revealed now, and each dent in the strategy - such as revocation of a Swiss residency permit - is a small victory. I think the bulk of his assets are real property in Italy, not so easy to hide that.

For all we know, Knox may already have her book advance $$ in the Cook Islands. Or Caymen Islands. Or Costa Rico.

I wonder if Knox has cut a check to Lumumba yet. (I doubt it.)


Last edited by louiehaha on Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Stumbled across this ... animated overview of the facts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzwPI565asM
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jackie wrote:
capealadin wrote:
I'd prolly have to see how you play..


I'd love to set that up, Cape ;-)

We just might have some major, Vegas-style celebrating to do when this case is closed.

(It feels so nice to have Demigod Dershowitz endorsing your opinion.)


I tell you..by the time this case is wrapped up...I may be in my dotage. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:47 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I'm happy that Knox and La famiglia will not be attending the Trial. For 2 reasons. They can forego the Circus and outbursts..a la Mimoo. We won't have to see the sickening *passing of chockies..and Ghirga fondling a Killer.

Also..By Knox not showing up..It shows guilt. I don't care how they try to spin it. The Prosecution now have a distinct advantage..imo..because they know which way the Defense will have to keep going. And..I believe they will find a way of letting things in..which were denied before.

Hellman turned it into a Kangaroo Court. With a donkey decision. Happily, his was NOT the last word.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Now, we just need to find out...who bought Frank Sforza a brand new car??? :)


I think it's a distinct possibility that it's been * Borrowed *. ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Michael wrote:
Now, we just need to find out...who bought Frank Sforza a brand new car??? :)


I think it's a distinct possibility that it's been * Borrowed *. ;)


No, I think he's been given/bought it.

This raises several questions. Who bought it for him or gave him the money for it? What else was given? For what purpose? To ensure his continued/future complicity? To ensure his silence? Or, was it part of a prearranged payment arranged a long time ago?

Frank has continued to be active in the case (attending hearings), yet for some time now he's been silent. There is only one way to control Frank Sforza and keep him quiet. You buy him.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

(Retired) Judge Claudio Pratillo Hellman defends his (and the Court of Appeals') decision to acquit the pair in a long-ish interview in Libero Quotidiano. Nothing new, though.

The judge says in an interview: "That's why I acquitted Amanda"
Missing evidence, expert opinions, errors in investigation...

"Fast and dirty" Google trans

Exactly, President, let us know more. Have there been violations of the law? It is true about the pressure from America because they wanted Amanda to come home free?

"Absolutely not. Just keep in mind that we had inherited a process "all-in-fact", that is where we just had to assess the evidence. We did not carry out any further investigation, the only move made by us was to ask an expertise on genetic evidence, as both the prosecution and the defense considered the DNA evidence on the findings queen to win the trial. "

That is, they are basically based on the same evidence on which the court of first instance handed down sentences, 26 and 25 years in prison, but that you thought were worth full acquittal?

"Exactly. We had examined the evidence, which in our opinion was not convincing. Was not convincing especially in light of a careful reading of the Code of Criminal Procedure, which requires "absolute certainty, beyond a reasonable doubt", which - in this case - that Knox and Sollecito were guilty. We knew we had to meet the challenges that we in fact faced the same evening [of the verdict] outside the courthouse, or the prospect of a different interpretation by the Supreme Court. But we acted according to our conscience. "

Do you think Amanda and Raffaele are innocent?

"That's not the point. We tried to find the "legal truth" that does not mean the same as the objective truth, but it certainly needs evidence. In this case there was no evidence. There were only clues and even those too faint. "

What were these clues that you found to be wobbly but that at first instance had been considered overwhelming evidence?

"Everything was based on the knife found at Sollecito's house and bra of the victim recovered at a later time, at the scene of the crime. All other incriminating evidence were nonsense."

The DNA of the defendants on the murder weapon and Meredith's underwear was not a proof?

"No. I'll explain why. The Court of First Instance did not consider it necessary to ask for a technical skill [check]. It was based on that of the Scientific Police. It was enough for the PM to close the framework of the murder charge, but when the defense of the accused - in the second degree - had focused its objections on the inconsistencies in the survey, we decided to ask for a non-partisan advice. The experts, in our opinion the best available, however, have completely dismantled the biological evidence."

There was no DNA of the accused?

"Yes, but traces on the blade of the knife were so faint that the genetic map of DNA that could be attributed was too broad. Those traces - in addition to Knox and Sollecito - could be reduced even to me, could be compatible with the DNA of the President of the Court."

And the hook of Meredith's bra?

"It is true that there was a DNA attributed to Sollecito, but also appeared to belong to three other men. Showing that the evidence had been compromised by contamination of the crime scene. The bra clasp, photographed on the first day of the investigation, had been left there in the bedroom. Only a month and a half later, it was decided to retrieve and analyze it. But it was noticed that, compared to the photos of the crime scene, the bra clasp had moved more than a meter and ended up under a carpet. "

However, even if the other three male DNA could be those of the policemen that came in later that month without white overalls, traces of Sollecito on the bra were still there.

"But Sollecito frequented the house. He was the boyfriend of Knox, Kercher's roommate. And the day of the crime had been to lunch in the house on Via della Pergola. "

But had no reason to touch the underwear of his girlfriend's roommate.

"It is said that he did. The traces of DNA are left even from fragments of skin cells. Organic substances infinitely small, that may have been transported on that hook at a later time. The shoe of a policeman that had entered the house in that month and a half, or even a flow of air. "

And the famous memorial of Amanda which it appears that the Supreme Court thought you had left out? The written confession in which she accused Patrick Lumumba in detail?

"It was not among the papers of the process and I do not know the contents."

In fact, the memorial had not been attached to the file of the trial, the court of first instance had held it inadmissible. Another obscure detail.

"I did not know it existed. But if this memorial was so important, the attorney would have asked to acquire it in the hearing of the appeal. "

According to the PG, and perhaps even to the Supreme Court which upheld the request for retrial, her accusation of Lumumba would be proof of the guilt of Amanda. If innocent, she wouldn't have accused another.

"Convicting Knox for slander, we explained that the girl had been subjected to a very tough questioning by the police. Without defender. Without sleep and with an interpreter who invited her to put an end to the long debate. In that context, she mentioned the name of Patrick. It is not out of the blue, but after she had been denied an exchange of text messages with him. Lumumba was her employer, so they texted to each other. Accusing him might have seemed a way out to escape from that confrontation. Let us remember that Amanda was a very young girl, recently arrived in Italy, who did not speak our language well. For me, it was logical in that context could keep arguing. I'm waiting to read the motivations of the Supreme Court to see what has not convinced the judges."

LIBERO QUOTIDIANO
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Guermantes quoting Hellmann wrote:
"Everything was based on the knife found at Sollecito's house and bra of the victim recovered at a later time, the scene of the crime. All other incriminating evidence were nonsense."


And here Hellmann admits that he judged the whole case arbitrarily on two pieces of evidence alone and completely ignored all the rest and in a nutshell, demonstrating why he's fecking incompetent and why his whole farce of an investigation and judgment was rightly thrown out by the High Court.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

This is a judge that has so little technical knowledge about DNA transference and contamination, that he thinks that incriminating DNA can land on an item via a "flow of air".

Fecking unbelievable!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:00 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Guermantes quoting Hellmann wrote:
"Everything was based on the knife found at Sollecito's house and bra of the victim recovered at a later time, the scene of the crime. All other incriminating evidence were nonsense."


And here Hellmann admits that he judged the whole case arbitrarily on two pieces of evidence alone and completely ignored all the rest and in a nutshell, demonstrates why he's fecking incompetent and why his whole farce of an investigation and judgment was rightly thrown out by the High Court.


There is a part of me that admits to a selfish sense of relief in this judgment by the High Court. I had a good deal of trouble getting through the Hellman translation. I stopped and started more times than I care to count. Some areas I reviewed over and over again, thinking that I was just somehow missing the point of what was written. When the Galati appeal was translated, I was relieved to see the number of times he used the word 'illogicality'. My thoughts in a nutshell, but it was good to see them confirmed. My bafflement had a explanation.

While there are no winners in this sad story, I hope the Kerchers can take a sense of comfort in the fact that Italy is on the road to justice for Meredith. It is a long one, but at least the High Court is travelling in the right direction.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:17 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:24 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Good Lord, Jester. There certainly are some unflattering pictures out there, aren't there?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:30 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Michael wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
Michael wrote:
Do you think the plan was to reward all his new 'friends' with jobs/contracts with his new company?


This article suggests he was set to 'put the Knox case on the screen'. It also claims he has purchased a home there, but that now that his legal status no longer includes the second level acquittal, his entry into Switzerland isn't secure despite having obtained a residence permit.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... pe-retrial



At the least though, that should allow him to funnel funds into Switzerland and hide them there, shouldn't it? He's already stashed 100,000 francs there in his business. Add whatever the cost of his apartment is and that's a lot already. I'm sure more will be going the same way. I have a bad feeling that the Kerchers will be struggling to get their compensation from him (and the courts their costs).


I'm thinking what you're thinkiing.


Of course both Knox and Sollecito will be employing asset protection strategies. At least some of Sollecito's strategy has been revealed now, and each dent in the strategy - such as revocation of a Swiss residency permit - is a small victory. I think the bulk of his assets are real property in Italy, not so easy to hide that.

For all we know, Knox may already have her book advance $$ in the Cook Islands. Or Caymen Islands. Or Costa Rico.

I wonder if Knox has cut a check to Lumumba yet. (I doubt it.)


I posted a comment from the FOA a while ago which said she'd made the book funds ' judgement proof'. So yeah, I think Ted Simon, Esq. Has earned his keep already, he's got a lot of experience with fleeing felons ;)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:38 pm   Post subject: SOME THOUGHTS FROM ROME.   

With all due respect to those who've argued otherwise recently, I really believe the kitchen knife is the murder weapon. K & S may have thought it wasn't retestable, as all their hired guns claimed. Sorry, I think the new tests will offer conclusive proof of their guilt. And I am led to believe the Florence Court of Appeals will so order that retesting. Good.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:55 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

No argument from me there. Except to say, I don't even think the knife needs retesting. Nobody (including the defence) disputed it was Meredith's DNA on the knife blade. What was in dispute was how it got there, whether from direct contact with the victim or from contamination. Lifting the profile from the knife again won't answer that question, it will only tell us what we already knew. In fact, this was the reason I was so confused as to why Hellmann requested that it be retested in the first place.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Transcript of CNN's program on Amanda Knox, aired last night:

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Murder Abroad: The Amanda Knox Story

Aired March 29, 2013 - 22:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CNN

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:36 pm   Post subject: Wake the kids and call the neighbors!!!   

guermantes wrote:
(Retired) Judge Claudio Pratillo Hellman defends his (and the Court of Appeals') decision to acquit the pair in a long-ish interview in Libero Quotidiano...

"Exactly. We had examined the evidence, which in our opinion was not convincing. Was not convincing especially in light of a careful reading of the Code of Criminal Procedure, which requires "absolute certainty, beyond a reasonable doubt", which - in this case - that Knox and Sollecito were guilty. We knew we had to meet the challenges that we in fact faced the same evening [of the verdict] outside the courthouse, or the prospect of a different interpretation by the Supreme Court. But we acted according to our conscience. "
...


Is this an accurate translation?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"absolute certainty"?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me Hellmann did not really say this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He can't be that stupid! A first year law student in their second week of classes knows better!

IMHO, it seems fairly clear that, based on the translation of his judgment, Hellmann does not understand the RD standard and its application to the totality of the evidence, but I never dreamed that an appellate court judge could be so incredibly clueless! Absolute certainty?!!!

Those can't be his words!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

"Beyond reasonable doubt" is not "absolute certainty".

This is what you get when you have a corporate judge sit a criminal trial and play at being a criminal judge.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
"Beyond reasonable doubt" is not "absolute certainty".

This is what you get when you have a corporate judge sit a criminal trial and play at being a criminal judge.


If that's an accurate quotation, Hellmann's words are absolutely scandalous! (No pun intended.)



PS Great to see you posting again, Michael!


Last edited by Jackie on Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
"Beyond reasonable doubt" is not "absolute certainty".

This is what you get when you have a corporate judge sit a criminal trial and play at being a criminal judge.



Hi Michael!

Refresh my gosh awful memory on how Judge Hellmann landed up with the appeal. Was it all kosher? Or did he get the job due to some unusual circumstances?


Also, when was the last time we heard from Rudy Guede?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
No argument from me there. Except to say, I don't even think the knife needs retesting. Nobody (including the defence) disputed it was Meredith's DNA on the knife blade. What was in dispute was how it got there, whether from direct contact with the victim or from contamination. Lifting the profile from the knife again won't answer that question, it will only tell us what we already knew. In fact, this was the reason I was so confused as to why Hellmann requested that it be retested in the first place.


It depends on the supreme court remit, which I believe will allow considerable latitude for the appeals court. Chance for the defence to argue contamination over again, or that Stefanoni amplified the readings beyond normal bounds. The LCN argument.

Me, I'd like to double down, and retest.I believe it'll confirm Meredith's dna. And I want to stress the pre-meditation. Why was the knife transported there that night?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jackie wrote:
Michael wrote:
"Beyond reasonable doubt" is not "absolute certainty".

This is what you get when you have a corporate judge sit a criminal trial and play at being a criminal judge.


If that's an accurate quotation, Hellmann's words are absolutely scandalous! (No pun intended.)



PS Great to see you posting again, Michael!


Absolutely! It's unbelievable to hear these words uttered by a judge, even if he's only a corporate judge. Nobody would ever be convicted in a criminal court run under his criteria. The standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt" not "beyond any doubt" and the word "absolute" should never be considered in the same sentence.

Great to see you still on the case too, Jackie :)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

indie wrote:
Michael wrote:
"Beyond reasonable doubt" is not "absolute certainty".

This is what you get when you have a corporate judge sit a criminal trial and play at being a criminal judge.



Hi Michael!

Refresh my gosh awful memory on how Judge Hellmann landed up with the appeal. Was it all kosher? Or did he get the job due to some unusual circumstances?


Also, when was the last time we heard from Rudy Guede?


Hi Indie :) Indeed, there were unusual circumstances. The appeal was to be presided over by a well respected criminal judge. Then, at the last minute almost, it was announced that he'd be replaced by Hellmann who was a corporate judge and had only ever presided over one criminal case before (and he acquitted in that case in rather controversial circumstances as well). The whole thing stank.

As for Rudy...I think he was waiting on the ruling by the High Court, perhaps planning an appeal of his own based on the verdict he was expecting, and then was thrown for a loop just as the Knoxii were when they anulled the appeal and acquittal. Just my opinion, of course.

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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I saw this article about the 're-write' of Knox's book.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ng-1789102

I'm more than a little skeptical about both the re-write and Sollecito's new business. It flies in the face of logic that the Publishers would not have planned for some brushing up of the book if things turned against Knox with the SC. I doubt this was a major undertaking.

Raffaele's new business so far is probably on paper more than anything else. Surely he wouldn't have made any major financial commitment at this point?


If the book needs to be re-written to ensure that she doesn't get into more hot water because of making false statements, wouldn't that mean that she has written a work of fiction? If her book is all truth, then there shouldn't be a problem.


Besides, Harper Collins knew they had to be cautious with Mignini launching a defamation suit against Raffaele for certain allegations in his book. I doubt they are very concerned about Amanda's legal future, and why should they.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:35 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Do you think the plan was to reward all his new 'friends' with jobs/contracts with his new company?


Or maybe rather use them...he really seemed to like the media biz when he went on his promo tour last year, didn't he.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Can you imagine the conversations amongst some of these people? The publishers want the juicy details. I assume Diane Sawyer does also.
Her lawyers, if they are wise, are telling her to shut up. Say nothing. Her parents want...what? Money? For this to go away? Mad Pax wants to hide her. But, someone, I would guess Harper Collins want some fluff pictures out there in advance. How can any of them be on the same page at the same time? How to wear her hair, how to answer or not answer questions. What a life.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I saw this article about the 're-write' of Knox's book.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ng-1789102

I'm more than a little skeptical about both the re-write and Sollecito's new business. It flies in the face of logic that the Publishers would not have planned for some brushing up of the book if things turned against Knox with the SC. I doubt this was a major undertaking.

Raffaele's new business so far is probably on paper more than anything else. Surely he wouldn't have made any major financial commitment at this point?


If the book needs to be re-written to ensure that she doesn't get into more hot water because of making false statements, wouldn't that mean that she has written a work of fiction? If her book is all truth, then there shouldn't be a problem.


Besides, Harper Collins knew they had to be cautious with Mignini launching a defamation suit against Raffaele for certain allegations in his book. I doubt they are very concerned about Amanda's legal future, and why should they.


Mignini is also now suing Douglas Preston. He's contacted lawyers in New York to launch a suit for libel against Preston and Spezi.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Can you imagine the conversations amongst some of these people? The publishers want the juicy details. I assume Diane Sawyer does also.
Her lawyers, if they are wise, are telling her to shut up. Say nothing. Her parents want...what? Money? For this to go away? Mad Pax wants to hide her. But, someone, I would guess Harper Collins want some fluff pictures out there in advance. How can any of them be on the same page at the same time? How to wear her hair, how to answer or not answer questions. What a life.


Not nice at all. But, they brought this all on themselves.

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:38 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
Do you think the plan was to reward all his new 'friends' with jobs/contracts with his new company?


Or maybe rather use them...he really seemed to like the media biz when he went on his promo tour last year, didn't he.


Certainly, he loves the attention. And, as he showed with his online Q & A and all the touring he's been doing, he loves the limelight and is not only desperate to keep his fan club, but to widen it.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jester wrote:
Stumbled across this ... animated overview of the facts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzwPI565asM



Let's embed that ;)


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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Judge Heavy and Hellman retired..put out to pasture. No wonder. Had Hellman not retired..there would have been a huge line of Defense attorneys..clamouring for him to be on the bench..ruling for their GUILTY clients.

Hellman adds insult to injury..by opening his mouth. And..trying to excuse his rulings. How he was a judge AT all..it just boggles the mind. I just cringe for him. Anyone with half a brain..has to going : huh-)

I'm not a person who believes in suing people. HOWEVER..I say: Bring it on. Preston, Spezi, Raf, Knox, Mellas/ the whole shebang.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:03 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Mignini told me he found Preston's book "superficial" :) and is unapologetic about pursuing the freemasonry angle. What could I do but shake his hand and wish him all the best at Cassazione? This was the day before he won re Narducci. And he looks just like he does in pictures. Quiet and unassuming, but dogged, and if he's suing the bastards, I wish him well there too.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

How's the Heavey travelling circus stateside? Wasn't he due to give a presentation in our purveyor of bibles to Korea neck of the woods which Nobody was to attend? :-)

I hope he adresses just how many thousands of dollars he paid to keep serial assaulter Frank Sfarzo in truffles. Keeping in mind that Frank was the source for many of Heavey's outlandish claims in the media, I do hope his lawyers ask that question.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:11 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
How's the Heavey travelling circus stateside? Wasn't he due to give a presentation in our purveyor of bibles to Korea neck of the woods which Nobody was to attend? :-)

I hope he adresses just how many thousands of dollars he paid to keep serial assaulter Frank Sfarzo in truffles.


Yes..and when he addresses the $$$ angle to Frank..and WHY?? he might let everyone know why his daughter wants nothing to do with Knox.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

That is...if he's not TOO busy organizing his travelling circus ( great phrase) to basically empty rooms.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:17 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Mignini told me he found Preston's book "superficial" :) and is unapologetic about pursuing the freemasonry angle. What could I do but shake his hand and wish him all the best at Cassazione? This was the day before he won re Narducci. And he looks just like he does in pictures. Quiet and unassuming, but dogged, and if he's suing the bastards, I wish him well there too.



Mignini is being WAY TOO kind. Superficial? It was out and out rubbish. And, yess..dogged. Believes in the guilt of the three killers. He'll be suing..and WINNING. WHOOT !!

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi cape. I am only surprised that Steve Shay is back after we reported what he had to say about Bruce Fischer. Somewhere in our cast of characters, if memory serves. But the gist of what he said still stands. They should have kept a low profile, instead the judge and the travelling truffle and fur salesmen had to rile the Italians no end.

I bet that hindsight, like karma, is a beyatch.
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Offline Itchy Brother


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Grandma Huff spoke out today, Amanda is strolling through a Seattle Park looking pensive, and sorry, this is a dm article again:

Pictured: Amanda Knox emerges for the first time since finding out she will be retried for murdering Meredith Kercher
By Hannah Roberts In Rome and Rachel Quigley
PUBLISHED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013 | UPDATED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rcher.html

"She (Elisabeth Huff) told the Italian newspaper La Stampa: 'It's a persecution. She has already been tried twice. Why reopen it.
The prosecutors want to find other guilty parties at any cost and they will never give up. That is the view of Amanda and our entire family.
'Because of this Amanda will not return to Italy for the new trial. She will never go back. No one in our family will.' "


It is clear to me that Amanda Knox knew her photo would be taken when she was "strolling through the park". Just compare them to others we have seen from her regularly. She always looks somewhat messy. In these photos she is dressed ok, first time I've ever seen her wearing ballerinas instead of sneakers or boots, and her hair is styled in a neat braid. That's not a coincidence in my opinion.


Hi Nell. Those were staged photos. The caption on one of the photos reads: "Amanda Knox takes a stroll through a local park in Seattle while doing a TV interview." I'm sure this was to capture footage that will be used during the Knox/Sawyer book promotion infomercial. Edited into the interview segments, this footage will accompany voice-overs with a carefully scripted narrative designed to elicit sympathy from viewers.

Note that the still photos were credited to "Splash News". Love that Machiavellian choice of the word "news". Here's something telling from their website:

Quote:
SPLASH MEDIA DISTRIBUTION TERMS

[...]
You grant Splash the right to license, distribute and place the Media for Publication in in or one or more electronic and print publications, news and entertainment services, Internet web sites, television programs, radio shows and other platforms (collectively, “Media Outlets”) worldwide, unless You specify a different territory. You and Splash each desire that Splash distribute the Media commercially to Media Outlets for issuance and/or reproduction via print, broadcast, or other mechanical or electronic means (“Publication”) subject to all applicable Terms.
[...]


To put it bluntly and succinctly, those photos were part of the book marketing campaign.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Hi cape. I am only surprised that Steve Shay is back after we reported what he had to say about Bruce Fischer. Somewhere in our cast of characters, if memory serves. But the gist of what he said still stands. They should have kept a low profile, instead the judge and the travelling truffle and fur salesmen had to rile the Italians no end.

I bet that hindsight, like karma, is a beyatch.


Yessir. One trick ponies. They have one speed..and it's going to end in a crash. They just have no insights. And ..that's important. So busy braying..hee-haw..

Just as well. I don't think I could have looked at any more pics of their *parties *. Those photos were depressing. I mean..was there even any music? LOL.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:12 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Itchy Brother wrote:
Nell wrote:
Ava wrote:
Grandma Huff spoke out today, Amanda is strolling through a Seattle Park looking pensive, and sorry, this is a dm article again:

Pictured: Amanda Knox emerges for the first time since finding out she will be retried for murdering Meredith Kercher
By Hannah Roberts In Rome and Rachel Quigley
PUBLISHED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013 | UPDATED: 19:47 GMT, 29 March 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rcher.html

"She (Elisabeth Huff) told the Italian newspaper La Stampa: 'It's a persecution. She has already been tried twice. Why reopen it.
The prosecutors want to find other guilty parties at any cost and they will never give up. That is the view of Amanda and our entire family.
'Because of this Amanda will not return to Italy for the new trial. She will never go back. No one in our family will.' "


It is clear to me that Amanda Knox knew her photo would be taken when she was "strolling through the park". Just compare them to others we have seen from her regularly. She always looks somewhat messy. In these photos she is dressed ok, first time I've ever seen her wearing ballerinas instead of sneakers or boots, and her hair is styled in a neat braid. That's not a coincidence in my opinion.


Hi Nell. Those were staged photos. The caption on one of the photos reads: "Amanda Knox takes a stroll through a local park in Seattle while doing a TV interview." I'm sure this was to capture footage that will be used during the Knox/Sawyer book promotion infomercial. Edited into the interview segments, this footage will accompany voice-overs with a carefully scripted narrative designed to elicit sympathy from viewers.

Note that the still photos were credited to "Splash News". Love that Machiavellian choice of the word "news". Here's something telling from their website:

Quote:
SPLASH MEDIA DISTRIBUTION TERMS

[...]
You grant Splash the right to license, distribute and place the Media for Publication in in or one or more electronic and print publications, news and entertainment services, Internet web sites, television programs, radio shows and other platforms (collectively, “Media Outlets”) worldwide, unless You specify a different territory. You and Splash each desire that Splash distribute the Media commercially to Media Outlets for issuance and/or reproduction via print, broadcast, or other mechanical or electronic means (“Publication”) subject to all applicable Terms.
[...]


To put it bluntly and succinctly, those photos were part of the book marketing campaign.


ABSOLUTELY. knox looking quite like the Fraulein. Well, why not? Staying in character of her at the Memorial in Germany..with the Machine gun. Reminding the young Jewish guy * My people killed your people. * I'm not saying anything against German people..obviously. This is about someone who clearly idendtifies with the Nazis. And, that's a different thing entirely.

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:02 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 7h

Quote:
Nightmare back to haunt #amandaknox, but not a big story in Seattle: http://tgr.ph/ZOmeVf via @h_alexander @TelegraphNews.


A British newspaper is regurgitating details of Knox's boring life in Seattle. Meredith Kercher's name is mentioned only once. Shameful. I feel sick... If there was some paint drying and I could see it, I'd rather watch the paint dry than read this. So there you go.

Amanda Knox: Nightmare of 'Foxy Knoxy' is back to haunt quiet student
By Harriet Alexander and Nick Allen

The third floor flat above a Chinese takeaway in a shabby area of Seattle is an unlikely setting for an international legal firestorm.
...
There are no wild parties, no loud music, and there have been no complaints at the £950-a-month flat she shares with Mr Terrano, 25. According to neighbours her only discernible vice appears to be puffing the occasional cigarette out the window and dropping some ash.

About once a week she buys microwaveable food from a local shop. The shopkeeper said: "When they come in they just buy warm up food. They never buy alcohol so I don't think they party very much. She's very reserved. Not rude, just reserved. I do business with her boyfriend and she doesn't talk.


THE TELEGRAPH

Has Knox now taken up smoking? Smoking joints or cigarettes?
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Michael wrote:
Now, we just need to find out...who bought Frank Sforza a brand new car??? :)


I think it's a distinct possibility that it's been * Borrowed *. ;)


No, I think he's been given/bought it.

This raises several questions. Who bought it for him or gave him the money for it? What else was given? For what purpose? To ensure his continued/future complicity? To ensure his silence? Or, was it part of a prearranged payment arranged a long time ago?

Frank has continued to be active in the case (attending hearings), yet for some time now he's been silent. There is only one way to control Frank Sforza and keep him quiet. You buy him.


Ergon mentioned the other day that FS is somehow connected to masonic elements in Perugia and has sources inside the questura. I found that interesting, although that doesn't answer the question who bought him the Smart car :)
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
Do you think the plan was to reward all his new 'friends' with jobs/contracts with his new company?


Or maybe rather use them...he really seemed to like the media biz when he went on his promo tour last year, didn't he.


Certainly, he loves the attention. And, as he showed with his online Q & A and all the touring he's been doing, he loves the limelight and is not only desperate to keep his fan club, but to widen it.


It's interesting, in fact I think quite a lot of criminals do (love the limelight).
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Raffaele's been answering questions again. Not so chatty this time though ;)

http://ask.fm/raffaelesollecito

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

On the day of the SC ruling he feels so so. How's that for yet another dishonest answer?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:19 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Lots of Media Coverage of Amanda Knox, But Almost No One has Bothered Reading the U.S. Italy Extradition Treaty

by Julian Ku


OPINIO JURIS

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 7h

Quote:
Nightmare back to haunt #amandaknox, but not a big story in Seattle: http://tgr.ph/ZOmeVf via @h_alexander @TelegraphNews.


A British newspaper is regurgitating details of Knox's boring life in Seattle. Meredith Kercher's name is mentioned only once. Shameful. I feel sick... If there was some paint drying and I could see it, I'd rather watch the paint dry than read this. So there you go.

Amanda Knox: Nightmare of 'Foxy Knoxy' is back to haunt quiet student
By Harriet Alexander and Nick Allen

The third floor flat above a Chinese takeaway in a shabby area of Seattle is an unlikely setting for an international legal firestorm.
...
There are no wild parties, no loud music, and there have been no complaints at the £950-a-month flat she shares with Mr Terrano, 25. According to neighbours her only discernible vice appears to be puffing the occasional cigarette out the window and dropping some ash.

About once a week she buys microwaveable food from a local shop. The shopkeeper said: "When they come in they just buy warm up food. They never buy alcohol so I don't think they party very much. She's very reserved. Not rude, just reserved. I do business with her boyfriend and she doesn't talk.


THE TELEGRAPH

Has Knox now taken up smoking? Smoking joints or cigarettes?


From The Telegraph article brought over by Guermantes:

Quote:
Miss Knox's amiable father Curt politely refers visitors to a short public statement issued by his daughter. At her mother's house a slab of cement bearing the words "The world loves Amanda Knox" has been placed outside. Miss Knox's younger sister, who answered the door, declined to comment.


:roll:

I just want to say, that is magic. It's using the magic of "The Word". When putting something into the word by speaking it or even more so by writing it, it "crystalises" it...makes it "fixed" and so more difficult to reject, dispell or undo. In other words, it's a kind of spell, whether it was intended to be or not. [/esoteric]

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Administrator Note:

The standard board time has been put forward one hour in line with British Summer Time (BST) which kicked in today which is UTC + 1. If you find the board time is now incorrect for your time zone, you can change it via your User Control Panel.

Thank You

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Offline ttrroonniicc


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Bizarre interview with Anne Bremner in the UK Sunday Express

"She will not be extradited, no matter what the Italian court decides," said her lawyer Anne Bremner, last night. "She has found a boyfriend, she is still studying at the University of Washington and she was just trying to move on with her life, quietly, until they demanded a retrial."

Speaking to the Sunday Express Ms Bremner, who is also a close friend of Knox's family and the founder of a support group, Friends Of Amanda Knox, says: "Firstly, she is innocent."

Then there is the issue of double jeopardy. Though not a defence in Italy and jettisoned as a principle by British courts in 2005, the American Constitution's Fifth amendment states: "Nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb."

Ms Bremner says: "It will be legally irrelevant here in America even if she is found guilty. Under the US Constitution, she cannot be tried twice for the same offence.

"If Amanda were the subject of an extradition demand by Italy, there is no way any judge, let alone the Justice Department or Department of State, would allow that to happen.

"To hand her back to the Italians would, quite simply, be unconstitutional. It has never happened before that a US citizen has been sent to another country to face prison time after having been acquitted of a crime. There may be no double jeopardy law in Italy but there sure as hell is here."

However, some American legal experts disagree.

SUNDAY EXPRESS
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just a post to say that once again, I'm seeing the old tired FOAKer talking point around the Web via their various socks, that Knox didn't leave Patrick Lumumba languishing in jail for a crime she'd falsely accused him of because she wrote a letter to her lawyers admitting to them that her accusation against Patrick wasn't true.

Poppycock! Has nobody ever explained to the FOAKers that what one says to their lawyer, verbally or in writing, is in confidence and cannot be shared with other parties? The only exception is when it is accompanied by an explicit instruction from the client to the lawyer to pass that information on to the relevant third parties on their behalf. That instruction was absent from Knox's letter and that is because the purpose of her letter was not to undo what she had done to Patrick! And the parties she should have told, the police, prosecutor or judge, she did not!

So, FOAKers, this non-excuse does not wash. And the prosecution, Patrick Lumumba and the courts, all rightly concluded the same.

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Lots of Media Coverage of Amanda Knox, But Almost No One has Bothered Reading the U.S. Italy Extradition Treaty

by Julian Ku


OPINIO JURIS


Isn't that interesting. I read that several times and missed it as well. Non bis in idem means "not twice for the same thing". Knox has not been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or served a sentence imposed, in the US for the same acts for which the extradition is requested, so that's the end of the double jeopardy debate.

Regarding the treaty, article VI, related to non bis in idem, isn't relevant. Article V relates to military and explains why military personnel have not been extradited, but that again is not relevant. The article related to length of time between criminal activity and trial is not relevant given that Knox voluntarily chose the long drawn out tiral over the fast track option. Court documents must be translated to English, but the Italians have that under control by producing detailed reports explaining each decisions. Translating them to English is not a huge undertaking for the Italian justice system. It looks like it would be little more than a formality for the extradition process to be completed. Now all we need is for the verdict to be affirmed.

Bremner must be drunk again. US law degrees seem to be worth little more than the paper on which they are written.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:05 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

This caught my attention

"At her mother's house a slab of cement bearing the words "The world loves Amanda Knox" has been placed outside."

A slab of cement? Not a fountain or a statue, not a garden ... just a slab of concrete with some words? Like a headstone? What odd people.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 7h

Quote:
Nightmare back to haunt #amandaknox, but not a big story in Seattle: http://tgr.ph/ZOmeVf via @h_alexander @TelegraphNews.


A British newspaper is regurgitating details of Knox's boring life in Seattle. Meredith Kercher's name is mentioned only once. Shameful. I feel sick... If there was some paint drying and I could see it, I'd rather watch the paint dry than read this. So there you go.

Amanda Knox: Nightmare of 'Foxy Knoxy' is back to haunt quiet student
By Harriet Alexander and Nick Allen

The third floor flat above a Chinese takeaway in a shabby area of Seattle is an unlikely setting for an international legal firestorm.
...
There are no wild parties, no loud music, and there have been no complaints at the £950-a-month flat she shares with Mr Terrano, 25. According to neighbours her only discernible vice appears to be puffing the occasional cigarette out the window and dropping some ash.

About once a week she buys microwaveable food from a local shop. The shopkeeper said: "When they come in they just buy warm up food. They never buy alcohol so I don't think they party very much. She's very reserved. Not rude, just reserved. I do business with her boyfriend and she doesn't talk.


THE TELEGRAPH

Has Knox now taken up smoking? Smoking joints or cigarettes?


Smoking pot. No one smokes cigarettes occassionally out the window at home. It sounds like a bit of a disgusting diet consisting of prepared, microwavable food and restaurants. That would explain her skin condition in her staged, Fraulein photo.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:01 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:22 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I saw this article about the 're-write' of Knox's book.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ng-1789102

I'm more than a little skeptical about both the re-write and Sollecito's new business. It flies in the face of logic that the Publishers would not have planned for some brushing up of the book if things turned against Knox with the SC. I doubt this was a major undertaking.

Raffaele's new business so far is probably on paper more than anything else. Surely he wouldn't have made any major financial commitment at this point?


If the book needs to be re-written to ensure that she doesn't get into more hot water because of making false statements, wouldn't that mean that she has written a work of fiction? If her book is all truth, then there shouldn't be a problem.


Besides, Harper Collins knew they had to be cautious with Mignini launching a defamation suit against Raffaele for certain allegations in his book. I doubt they are very concerned about Amanda's legal future, and why should they.


Although I agree that the a publishing company could care less about lawsuits against an author, but I wonder if the publishing company is protected from all lawsuits resulting from the publication of a book? Would there be a disclaimer attached by the publishing company to distance themselves from the potential absence of veracity of the story?

Would Harper Collins will be making a decision about whether to publish the book as an autobiography, or as fiction? If there is anything that has to be edited from the text as a result of the court decision, the book must be presented as a work of fiction. The truth does not need to be edited to avoid law suits.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:28 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jester wrote:
This caught my attention

"At her mother's house a slab of cement bearing the words "The world loves Amanda Knox" has been placed outside."

A slab of cement? Not a fountain or a statue, not a garden ... just a slab of concrete with some words? Like a headstone? What odd people.


Some people will do anything to appease the narcissist friend or family member.

As federal regulators were closing in on Charlie Keating in the late 80's, someone in his inner circle had 10,000 "I Love Charlie Keating" pins printed and distributed them to employees, business associates, politicians, clergy, friends, etc.


Last edited by louiehaha on Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:32 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jester wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 7h

Quote:
Nightmare back to haunt #amandaknox, but not a big story in Seattle: http://tgr.ph/ZOmeVf via @h_alexander @TelegraphNews.


A British newspaper is regurgitating details of Knox's boring life in Seattle. Meredith Kercher's name is mentioned only once. Shameful. I feel sick... If there was some paint drying and I could see it, I'd rather watch the paint dry than read this. So there you go.

Amanda Knox: Nightmare of 'Foxy Knoxy' is back to haunt quiet student
By Harriet Alexander and Nick Allen

The third floor flat above a Chinese takeaway in a shabby area of Seattle is an unlikely setting for an international legal firestorm.
...
There are no wild parties, no loud music, and there have been no complaints at the £950-a-month flat she shares with Mr Terrano, 25. According to neighbours her only discernible vice appears to be puffing the occasional cigarette out the window and dropping some ash.

About once a week she buys microwaveable food from a local shop. The shopkeeper said: "When they come in they just buy warm up food. They never buy alcohol so I don't think they party very much. She's very reserved. Not rude, just reserved. I do business with her boyfriend and she doesn't talk.


THE TELEGRAPH

Has Knox now taken up smoking? Smoking joints or cigarettes?


Smoking pot. No one smokes cigarettes occassionally out the window at home. It sounds like a bit of a disgusting diet consisting of prepared, microwavable food and restaurants. That would explain her skin condition in her staged, Fraulein photo.


You'd think a vegan's diet would be comprised of fruits, vegetables, nuts, and the like, not processed foods.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Jester wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 7h

Quote:
Nightmare back to haunt #amandaknox, but not a big story in Seattle: http://tgr.ph/ZOmeVf via @h_alexander @TelegraphNews.


A British newspaper is regurgitating details of Knox's boring life in Seattle. Meredith Kercher's name is mentioned only once. Shameful. I feel sick... If there was some paint drying and I could see it, I'd rather watch the paint dry than read this. So there you go.

Amanda Knox: Nightmare of 'Foxy Knoxy' is back to haunt quiet student
By Harriet Alexander and Nick Allen

The third floor flat above a Chinese takeaway in a shabby area of Seattle is an unlikely setting for an international legal firestorm.
...
There are no wild parties, no loud music, and there have been no complaints at the £950-a-month flat she shares with Mr Terrano, 25. According to neighbours her only discernible vice appears to be puffing the occasional cigarette out the window and dropping some ash.

About once a week she buys microwaveable food from a local shop. The shopkeeper said: "When they come in they just buy warm up food. They never buy alcohol so I don't think they party very much. She's very reserved. Not rude, just reserved. I do business with her boyfriend and she doesn't talk.


THE TELEGRAPH

Has Knox now taken up smoking? Smoking joints or cigarettes?


Smoking pot. No one smokes cigarettes occassionally out the window at home. It sounds like a bit of a disgusting diet consisting of prepared, microwavable food and restaurants. That would explain her skin condition in her staged, Fraulein photo.


You'd think a vegan's diet would be comprised of fruits, vegetables, nuts, and the like, not processed foods.


Vegan? She's vegan? I've never met a real vegan that eats microwave, and restaurant, food all the time. My daughter was a vegan for years (now she has modified her diet somewhat) and she wants to know about every single ingredient that she eats, and the only way to do that is to make healthy meals at home. She drives to a farm in the countryside to buy unpasteurized milk for making yogurt.

Knox is a liar. Knox claims to be a vegan. Knox only eats microwave food. Knox is lying about being vegan.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:56 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Jester wrote:
This caught my attention

"At her mother's house a slab of cement bearing the words "The world loves Amanda Knox" has been placed outside."

A slab of cement? Not a fountain or a statue, not a garden ... just a slab of concrete with some words? Like a headstone? What odd people.


Some people will do anything to appease the narcissist friend or family member.

As federal regulators were closing in on Charlie Keating in the late 80's, someone in his inner circle had 10,000 "I Love Charlie Keating" pins printed and distributed them to employees, business associates, politicians, clergy, friends, etc.


Placing a tombstone at the front door of someone's home claiming that the world loves someone else is just plain crazy. If it were me, I'd have a jackhammer in my hands in minutes. Furthermore, if a tombstone is the best that the "creative" writer can come up with, then I have a feeling her "creative" writing will be nothing more than the Ramblings of Knox that we've already sampled (e.g.: rape story, foggy murder story)
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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jester wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
Jester wrote:
guermantes wrote:
Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 7h

Quote:
Nightmare back to haunt #amandaknox, but not a big story in Seattle: http://tgr.ph/ZOmeVf via @h_alexander @TelegraphNews.


A British newspaper is regurgitating details of Knox's boring life in Seattle. Meredith Kercher's name is mentioned only once. Shameful. I feel sick... If there was some paint drying and I could see it, I'd rather watch the paint dry than read this. So there you go.

Amanda Knox: Nightmare of 'Foxy Knoxy' is back to haunt quiet student
By Harriet Alexander and Nick Allen

The third floor flat above a Chinese takeaway in a shabby area of Seattle is an unlikely setting for an international legal firestorm.
...
There are no wild parties, no loud music, and there have been no complaints at the £950-a-month flat she shares with Mr Terrano, 25. According to neighbours her only discernible vice appears to be puffing the occasional cigarette out the window and dropping some ash.

About once a week she buys microwaveable food from a local shop. The shopkeeper said: "When they come in they just buy warm up food. They never buy alcohol so I don't think they party very much. She's very reserved. Not rude, just reserved. I do business with her boyfriend and she doesn't talk.


THE TELEGRAPH

Has Knox now taken up smoking? Smoking joints or cigarettes?


Smoking pot. No one smokes cigarettes occassionally out the window at home. It sounds like a bit of a disgusting diet consisting of prepared, microwavable food and restaurants. That would explain her skin condition in her staged, Fraulein photo.


You'd think a vegan's diet would be comprised of fruits, vegetables, nuts, and the like, not processed foods.


Vegan? She's vegan? I've never met a real vegan that eats microwave, and restaurant, food all the time. My daughter was a vegan for years (now she has modified her diet somewhat) and she wants to know about every single ingredient that she eats, and the only way to do that is to make healthy meals at home. She drives to a farm in the countryside to buy unpasteurized milk for making yogurt.

Knox is a liar. Knox claims to be a vegan. Knox only eats microwave food. Knox is lying about being vegan.


Yes she is a liar (a felonious liar, now confirmed). Madison Paxton repeatedly claimed she was a 'vegan, yoga-loving, hippy, who loved everyone'. Sharon Feinstein interviewed some of her cellmates in prison who revealed that while she publicly claimed to be vegan, she ate their salami and prosciutto in this article: http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/main/i ... a_Knox.php

There was once a lively comment section to this piece, but it didn't go the way the Knoxxi liked & they warned her she would be sued & after that, she disabled the comments.


Last edited by louiehaha on Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:06 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

louiehaha wrote:
Jester wrote:
louiehaha wrote:
You'd think a vegan's diet would be comprised of fruits, vegetables, nuts, and the like, not processed foods.


Vegan? She's vegan? I've never met a real vegan that eats microwave, and restaurant, food all the time. My daughter was a vegan for years (now she has modified her diet somewhat) and she wants to know about every single ingredient that she eats, and the only way to do that is to make healthy meals at home. She drives to a farm in the countryside to buy unpasteurized milk for making yogurt.

Knox is a liar. Knox claims to be a vegan. Knox only eats microwave food. Knox is lying about being vegan.


Yes she is a liar (a felonious liar, now confirmed). Madison Paxton repeatedly claimed she was a 'vegan, yoga-loving, hippy, who loved everyone'. Sharon Feinstein interviewed some of her cellmates in prison who revealed that while she publicly claimed to be vegan, while she ate their salami and prosciutto in this article: http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/main/i ... a_Knox.php

There was once a lively comment section to this piece, but it didn't go the way the Knoxxi liked & they warned her she would be sued & after that, she disabled the comments.


So she essentially tried to use the Peace, Love, Hippy brand to manipulate the public. There cannot be any doubt that she is not a vegetarian. Not only have those that lived with her in prison stated that she is not vegetarian, but now we have the local grocer saying the same thing. Either everyone is lying about Knox, or Knox herself is once again confirmed as a liar.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jester wrote:


GREAT, JESTER !! The Board has become so colourful......

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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
GREAT, JESTER !! The Board has become so colourful......


Even though her personality is so dark and flat, Knox has been so generous in providing an abundance of material with which to work.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:26 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

From what we know about Knox...She's not a vegan. ( stelaing salami..making crab cakes etc.

She's a lazy, hot mess. Gets microwave meals because she's a slob..doesn't do housework.

Can't even bother to use an ashtray.

Too lazy to dress nicely..except for photo ops. Ditto hair and make-up.

What? Saying you're a vegan-hippy..is supposed to translate as a good person? Please. Hitler was a vegan.

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Offline louiehaha


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jester wrote:

So she essentially tried to use the Peace, Love, Hippy brand to manipulate the public. There cannot be any doubt that she is not a vegetarian. Not only have those that lived with her in prison stated that she is not vegetarian, but now we have the local grocer saying the same thing. Either everyone is lying about Knox, or Knox herself is once again confirmed as a liar.


Yep. Note the trophy mounts in the background of this sad image of three stooges. This was the venue chosen for the 'vegan' Knox to receive visitors from around the globe somewhere in the state of Washington last July 2012.

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

JESTER!! Spoiler alert !! I had just taken a bite out of a chocolate Croissant...I'm torn between laughing and shuddering.

From left to right..The Ferret..Pinocchio..and Chipmonk. You'd have thunk Mimoo would iron his shirt. That's the best they could do with curtains??

THIS is a venue??? For Global Visitors?? For ANY kind of do?? O...M...G !

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:50 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Actually..the Furrier/Ferret looks so stiff..he looks as though he's been ironed :)

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Mignini told me he found Preston's book "superficial" :) and is unapologetic about pursuing the freemasonry angle. What could I do but shake his hand and wish him all the best at Cassazione? This was the day before he won re Narducci. And he looks just like he does in pictures. Quiet and unassuming, but dogged, and if he's suing the bastards, I wish him well there too.


Did Mignini offer his opinion of Frank?
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:52 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Mignini told me he found Preston's book "superficial" :) and is unapologetic about pursuing the freemasonry angle. What could I do but shake his hand and wish him all the best at Cassazione? This was the day before he won re Narducci. And he looks just like he does in pictures. Quiet and unassuming, but dogged, and if he's suing the bastards, I wish him well there too.


Did Mignini offer his opinion of Frank?


Yeah. He said he's a criminal and a fugitive from Justice :)

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:53 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Mignini told me he found Preston's book "superficial" :) and is unapologetic about pursuing the freemasonry angle. What could I do but shake his hand and wish him all the best at Cassazione? This was the day before he won re Narducci. And he looks just like he does in pictures. Quiet and unassuming, but dogged, and if he's suing the bastards, I wish him well there too.


Did Mignini offer his opinion of Frank?


Yeah. He said he's a criminal and a fugitive from Justice :)


Mua-)
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I found this link to an opinion about extradition and why it is a given if Knox is found guilty.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013 ... extradited
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Mignini told me he found Preston's book "superficial" :) and is unapologetic about pursuing the freemasonry angle. What could I do but shake his hand and wish him all the best at Cassazione? This was the day before he won re Narducci. And he looks just like he does in pictures. Quiet and unassuming, but dogged, and if he's suing the bastards, I wish him well there too.


Did Mignini offer his opinion of Frank?


Yeah. He said he's a criminal and a fugitive from Justice :)


Mua-)


Happy Easter, Napia. Love your insights. Hope Dad's arm is on the mend.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks, cape. Hope you enjoyed your holiday as well. Good thing school is closed yet today. Kids all need to wind down. Dad is slowly mending.
Too slowly, by his calculations, but he's grateful that he is home and able to get around. How about you? How are those beautiful grandchildren?

I'm having a hard time getting started this morning. I think that chocolate bunny I enjoyed is exacting a pay-back.

I don't know about you, but I can barely keep up with the articles being written about extradition. Some people don't even seem to care about guilt or innocence. Just an arrogant attitude of, "We won't send her back." Or, "It's over. She'll never go back." I don't even know how to respond to this arrogance.

But I have noticed, there is also a much more reasoned response building behind some of the articles. These newer responders are running right into the comments of the ranting Groupies, and I'm finding that interesting to follow. What must these normal people be thinking.
I have to capture the link to CNN. That comment thread is pretty entertaining.

ETA: Here's the link: http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/26/world/eur ... index.html
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Ergon wrote:
Mignini told me he found Preston's book "superficial" :) and is unapologetic about pursuing the freemasonry angle. What could I do but shake his hand and wish him all the best at Cassazione? This was the day before he won re Narducci. And he looks just like he does in pictures. Quiet and unassuming, but dogged, and if he's suing the bastards, I wish him well there too.


Did Mignini offer his opinion of Frank?


Yeah. He said he's a criminal and a fugitive from Justice :)


Just about, :-) but mostly we talked about the Monster Of Florence case. He is not dealing with Frank Sfarzo's file as it would be a conflict of interest.

And sorry I missed saying this, but best Passover and Easter wishes to every body. This week I am thinking of all the people I heard of recently who are in ill health, and praying for them.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:01 pm   Post subject: HI EVERYONE   

Back from Italy and still jet lagged. Catching up on my pvr tv shows inc. Game Of Thrones and Dallas :-) and had to unpack my suitcase to distribute gifts to family as soon as I stepped through the door.

Will update in the next couple of days but hope you had a chance to read my posts from Rome in the previous thread. If you have any questions you can post them here.

The groupie talk about extradition is premature and I am not going to engage with them. The evidence is what drives this case, and will need to be discussed as the Cassazione reasoning is released and going up to the new trial. It won't be separated, imo Knox and Sollecito are forever tied together.

Talked to a lot of people. Much that is still under investigation but there was a lot of background information, and, what I observed at Cassazione. And perhaps, Frank Sfarzo should have been kept under wraps. His role in the subversion of justice will never be forgotten.
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I'd like to know if you spoke at length to anyone about the general feeling there of the American media coverage. Does anyone in Italy believe that all of us buy the crap that passes for news on this case? Do any Italians feel insulted by the way they are being portrayed?
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:36 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I note that Bruce Fischer, defender of all things Amanda, is much exercised by my posts about Frank Sfarzo, accusing me of 'stalkerish' behaviour, and threatening to stalk, er, 'expose' me. Not that any one has stopped him, or me, before, but really? I wonder what that has to do with the PR campaign and up coming book tour?

Still, I wonder at the hold Sfarco has over those dudes, he didn't look destitute at all :-)
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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
I note that Bruce Fischer, defender of all things Amanda, is much exercised by my posts about Frank Sfarzo, accusing me of 'stalkerish' behaviour, and threatening to stalk, er, 'expose' me. Not that any one has stopped him, or me, before, but really? I wonder what that has to do with the PR campaign and up coming book tour?

Still, I wonder at the hold Sfarco has over those dudes, he didn't look destitute at all :-)


Golly, Ergon. This news from Bruise is directly the opposite of what Frank has written. Frank enjoys our attention. The more the better. We are nobodies whom he is waiting to sue, and he enjoys the publicity. We are making him famous.

So what does Bruise have to complain about? Isn't Frank enjoying your attention?
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:54 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Amanda Knox's legal team rewriting her tell-all book ahead of retrial

They want to tone down criticism of the Italian police, prosecutors and legal system in case it backfires on her


THE MIRROR

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:31 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Dempsey has written a new blog post, Amanda Knox: the Carnival Ride Continues. Sigh.

Did she mean "The Traveling Circus is Back on The Road", perhaps? ;)

Quote:
When is an acquittal not an acquittal? When Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito go before an Italian court. Everybody knows that I love Italy like a bad boyfriend, but the overturning of their murder acquittals last week by the Court of Cassation marks a new low. [...]
Hellmann also reminded us that only one person knows what happened that night: Rudy Guede, the small-time crook already convicted of stabbing Meredith Kercher, Amanda’s British roommate.


SEATTLE PI BLOG

Fischer continues to lie unashamedly to his readers and himself:

Quote:
Current status of the case
Amanda and Raffeale [sic] are considered legally innocent and will remain free while the appellate court reviews (currently unknown) aspects of the case. [...]
The truth in this case is clear for anyone willing to see it. Rudy Guede murdered Meredith Kercher and he acted alone.


GROUND REPORT

They are singing from the same hymn sheet, with a few of usual suspects gathered around in support; but the pitch is off-key.

v-))
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:46 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi, Napia5. Truthfully, feelings in Italy are a lot more nuanced than we are led to believe. There were a lot of law students from La Sapienza University inside court. They were there because their professor was speaking to the court on another matter. Over lunch, I asked their views on the Meredith Kercher case. Some thought that Knox and Sollecito were involved, and some, the case hadn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. They felt the police had made mistakes and therefore they ought to be released. Funny, but one student (from Africa) thought her accusing Patrick was an indication of guilt. (I agree)
But speaking to people in Perugia? They remember "Meredith". They've also moved on. They were aware of the media representations, but they're used to it. Italian media also messed up, based on the politics (not as bad as here though)
But the media over kill back fired, no doubt about it. And they want to redo that? Truly the definition of idiocy.
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Italy can retry Amanda Knox but she will never go back to jail
By: Marco Giannangell and Mike Parker
Published: Sun, March 31, 2013
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/388341 ... ck-to-jail


"Yet others argue that, in any case, Knox could "stonewall" any extradition attempt for decades with appeal after appeal."

...

"As the Foxy Knoxy show gets another reprise, what of Meredith, a 21-year-old language exchange student from Coulsdon, Surrey, who in November 2007 was found in the bedroom of the flat she shared with Knox, her throat cut after what Mignini called a drug-fuelled sex party that went horrifyingly awry?

Knox's acquittal in 2011 left Meredith's family, so desperate for answers and closure, "stunned".
Reacting to last week's decision, her sister Stephanie said: "While we are not happy about going back to court, and it will not bring her back, we have to make sure we have done all we can for her."

Amid America's media frenzy, there is little sign of the real victim becoming anything more than a postscript. During a solid two hours of TV news broadcasts recorded in Los Angeles on one day last week, Meredith's name was mentioned a mere four times."
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:27 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Has Bruce Fischer contacted his "colleagues"/pals on the Wrongful Convictions Blog?

Amanda Knox – Trial by Website
By Phil Locke

Quote:
But nowadays, there is a new internet-age version of trial by media. I call it “trial by website.” This happens when someone becomes personally dedicated to the guilt or innocence of a particular defendant, and sets up a website to proffer their one-sided views. There are both innocence-based websites and guilt-based websites. However, my observation is that the guilt-based websites are much more vitriolic, and generally based upon much unsubstantiated, or downright false, information.


The Wrongful Convictions Blog
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:37 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Has Bruce Fischer contacted his "colleagues"/pals on the Wrongful Convictions Blog?

Amanda Knox – Trial by Website
By Phil Locke

Quote:
But nowadays, there is a new internet-age version of trial by media. I call it “trial by website.” This happens when someone becomes personally dedicated to the guilt or innocence of a particular defendant, and sets up a website to proffer their one-sided views. There are both innocence-based websites and guilt-based websites. However, my observation is that the guilt-based websites are much more vitriolic, and generally based upon much unsubstantiated, or downright false, information.


The Wrongful Convictions Blog


Mr.Locke fails to mention that the 'innocence' websites generally have a PayPal donation button attached to them.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:09 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jools just posted this on .org:

Quote:
Swiss politicians in Lugano looking into, the man accused of murder, Raffaele Sollecito's residency permit. The politicians want to know if Sollecito told falsehoods on the application where they asked if the applicant has criminal trials that are still ongoing.

The Suspicions of Swiss Politicians:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hczwaKA_-4M


Wednesday:
Raffaele Sollecito in Lugano, but with what permit?


The man suspected of the murder of Meredith Kercher announced that he will move to Lugano. Doubts arise about how he might have been entitled to receive permit B: is he guilty of stating falsehoods on the residency-permit application when asked if he had ongoing criminal trials?

http://www.mattinonline.ch/da-raffaele-sollecito-alluccisione-del-cigno-di-porto-ceresio/
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Offline Ava


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:16 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jester wrote:
Ava wrote:
Jester wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I saw this article about the 're-write' of Knox's book.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ng-1789102

I'm more than a little skeptical about both the re-write and Sollecito's new business. It flies in the face of logic that the Publishers would not have planned for some brushing up of the book if things turned against Knox with the SC. I doubt this was a major undertaking.

Raffaele's new business so far is probably on paper more than anything else. Surely he wouldn't have made any major financial commitment at this point?


If the book needs to be re-written to ensure that she doesn't get into more hot water because of making false statements, wouldn't that mean that she has written a work of fiction? If her book is all truth, then there shouldn't be a problem.


Besides, Harper Collins knew they had to be cautious with Mignini launching a defamation suit against Raffaele for certain allegations in his book. I doubt they are very concerned about Amanda's legal future, and why should they.


Although I agree that the a publishing company could care less about lawsuits against an author, but I wonder if the publishing company is protected from all lawsuits resulting from the publication of a book? Would there be a disclaimer attached by the publishing company to distance themselves from the potential absence of veracity of the story?

Would Harper Collins will be making a decision about whether to publish the book as an autobiography, or as fiction? If there is anything that has to be edited from the text as a result of the court decision, the book must be presented as a work of fiction. The truth does not need to be edited to avoid law suits.


The book has always been called a "memoir", and I don't really believe in any hectic rewrite over Easter tbh, the only source for that is "a pal" cited by The Mirror. Maybe they'll mention the SC decision and something like "the fight will go on", but if they took Mignini's action seriously they should know since then how to avoid Raffaele's mistakes.

Publishing companies can get sued, remember the DSK (Strauss Kahn) case? He just partly won (or lost, he wanted the book be banned) a lawsuit against one of his ex-lovers who wrote a book "Belle et Bête" where she describes him as "half man half pig". Now an insert (about violation of intimacy/private life) has to be added to each copy and the publisher and the author have to pay him 50.000 euros in damages.

But of course you never know and it always depends...Didn't the Knoxes file a lawsuit over the Amanda Knox Lifetime movie some time ago? I don't think it had any success.
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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:21 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Residence and work permits in Switzerland

Quote:
Labour / Work permits

In order to work in the Switzerland, EU-25/EFTA nationals must have a residence permit, which also acts as a work permit. To qualify, a person must either have secured employment or meet the requirements that apply if they are not employed. The employer registers the individual with the Cantonal Labour Office or online at http://www.meweb.admin.ch. The category of the residence permit is determined by the duration of employment. A short-term residence permit (Type L permit) is awarded for employment of less than a year, while a residence permit (Type B permit) is awarded for employment of one year or more.


EXPATICA
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:48 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

guermantes wrote:
Has Bruce Fischer contacted his "colleagues"/pals on the Wrongful Convictions Blog?

Amanda Knox – Trial by Website
By Phil Locke

Quote:
But nowadays, there is a new internet-age version of trial by media. I call it “trial by website.” This happens when someone becomes personally dedicated to the guilt or innocence of a particular defendant, and sets up a website to proffer their one-sided views. There are both innocence-based websites and guilt-based websites. However, my observation is that the guilt-based websites are much more vitriolic, and generally based upon much unsubstantiated, or downright false, information.


The Wrongful Convictions Blog


Really? I suppose Mr Locke missed the Knox advocacy sites bullying a rape victim and 70 + year old man, not to mention the family of an innocent girl who was sexually assaulted and then murdered. But then, that's what you get when you only spend an afternoon skimming through the sites so you can then pronounce your verdict from lofty Mount Olympus!

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Offline guermantes

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:08 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jools wrote:
The politicians want to know if Sollecito told falsehoods on the application where they asked if the applicant has criminal trials that are still ongoing.

...is he guilty of stating falsehoods on the residency-permit application when asked if he had ongoing criminal trials?


On the website of the Office of Migration, Canton of Ticino, I've found the form that Sollecito would have had to fill out to get the residence permit B (Permesso di dimora B - UE/AELS: http://www4.ti.ch/index.php?id=7581)

It's called "Self-certification of criminal convictions for EU-EFTA and third-country citizens where there exists no obligation to present/submit criminal record certificate" -->> PDF

Indeed, there is the following question on the form:

"Ha un procedimento penale pendente?"

"Do you have a criminal case pending?" answerable with either "yes" or "no".

I wonder which box Sollecito checked on the form N. 1000? (Click on "+" to enlarge.)



Attachment:
1000-autocertificazione.pdf



http://www4.ti.ch/di/di-di/spop/stranieri/autocertificazione-precedenti-penali/


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:38 pm   Post subject: SWISS BUSINESS INVESTOR REQUIREMENTS   

guermantes wrote:
Residence and work permits in Switzerland

Quote:
Labour / Work permits

In order to work in the Switzerland, EU-25/EFTA nationals must have a residence permit, which also acts as a work permit. To qualify, a person must either have secured employment or meet the requirements that apply if they are not employed. The employer registers the individual with the Cantonal Labour Office or online at http://www.meweb.admin.ch. The category of the residence permit is determined by the duration of employment. A short-term residence permit (Type L permit) is awarded for employment of less than a year, while a residence permit (Type B permit) is awarded for employment of one year or more.


EXPATICA


Hi, guermantes. Re: labour/work permits, I believe this applies only to paid employment, if one worked for a Swiss company, say, and not where just anyone can set up their own 'truth telling' company and 'employ themselves, lol. It's for this reason I wondered if any one confirmed he's actually been granted a residence permit? At best he's set up a company with nominal capitalization through a lawyer's office (the address on the form, I doubt he's bought an apartment in that pricey neighborhood in Lugano) and the requirements for a business investor are a lot more stringent: http://www.isyours.com/e/residency/investor.html

Quote:
Swiss residency for investors

You can obtain Swiss residency by investing in a Swiss company even if you are less than 55 years old and not a EU citizen.
Typical client profiles
This is a very flexible program:

Actors, singers or sportsmen
People who are in the process of selling their company
Businessmen not active within Switzerland
Early retirement
People living from their own assets and who do not need to work.

Conditions:
You need to invest at least half a million Swiss francs (convert in dollars) in a small to medium company of the canton where you will live. It is not enough to deposit the money in a Swiss bank or buy shares from a Swiss company quoted on the stock market. Your investment must bring economic added value for the area by fostering job creation

You will be expected to actually live in Switzerland most of the year, but there are exceptions possible if in good faith. It is not possible, however, to benefit from this system if you actually live most of your time in a different country and only come to Switzerland for the summer.

Finally, unless you are a famous artist, you do need to show some ties to Switzerland such as previous trips, Swiss friends, relatives living in Switzerland, etc...

Do not hesitate to contact us if you are not sure whether you would qualify.
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Well Ergon, Sollecito doesn't meet that criteria. That brings us back to the form Guermantes posted. He must have a permit, otherwise the Swiss politicians wouldn't now be questioning its validity.

Anyway, the good news is, from the noises being made by Swiss politicians, Sollecito ain't welcome!.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
I found this link to an opinion about extradition and why it is a given if Knox is found guilty.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013 ... extradited


Hey Naps..the link doesn't work for me. I get that bright yellow star thing. I could be because my son has fixed my comp with anti virus things.

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:43 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I found this link to an opinion about extradition and why it is a given if Knox is found guilty.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013 ... extradited


Hey Naps..the link doesn't work for me. I get that bright yellow star thing. I could be because my son has fixed my comp with anti virus things.


Now you know that I'm sitting here laughing my butt off! Imagine you and me having a conversation about what the problem could be with a link! OMG, where should I start? What bright yellow star thingy?

I tried the link and it works for me. The only thing that I ever saw that looks like a yellow star happens when I have my computer set to magnify the size. Then I get a little yellow thing that won't allow me to access until I turn the magnification down. I have absolutely no clue if this is what you are talking about. LOLOLOLOLOL!
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Thanks, cape. Hope you enjoyed your holiday as well. Good thing school is closed yet today. Kids all need to wind down. Dad is slowly mending.
Too slowly, by his calculations, but he's grateful that he is home and able to get around. How about you? How are those beautiful grandchildren?

I'm having a hard time getting started this morning. I think that chocolate bunny I enjoyed is exacting a pay-back.

I don't know about you, but I can barely keep up with the articles being written about extradition. Some people don't even seem to care about guilt or innocence. Just an arrogant attitude of, "We won't send her back." Or, "It's over. She'll never go back." I don't even know how to respond to this arrogance.

But I have noticed, there is also a much more reasoned response building behind some of the articles. These newer responders are running right into the comments of the ranting Groupies, and I'm finding that interesting to follow. What must these normal people be thinking.
I have to capture the link to CNN. That comment thread is pretty entertaining.

ETA: Here's the link: http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/26/world/eur ... index.html


Thanks. I managed to read the links.

The comment section is pretty hilarious. Mimoo..OY..that poor woman. SO stupid...so in denial. She's very incoherent as well. I guess she didn't get much of anything in Perugia. She spells Medieval as * Midevil*..Lucky for her though..she's married to an equal dimwit. So..ignorance is bliss..all round :)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:27 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
I found this link to an opinion about extradition and why it is a given if Knox is found guilty.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013 ... extradited


Hey Naps..the link doesn't work for me. I get that bright yellow star thing. I could be because my son has fixed my comp with anti virus things.


Now you know that I'm sitting here laughing my butt off! Imagine you and me having a conversation about what the problem could be with a link! OMG, where should I start? What bright yellow star thingy?

I tried the link and it works for me. The only thing that I ever saw that looks like a yellow star happens when I have my computer set to magnify the size. Then I get a little yellow thing that won't allow me to access until I turn the magnification down. I have absolutely no clue if this is what you are talking about. LOLOLOLOLOL!


TOO right :) Your skills are way better than mine, though. The yellow thingy comes up sometimes with a little white hand , I think. In any event...one of my sons thinks I'm brill at the comp..because I manage to do things that are not the usual..and I find a way around it. In doing so..I mistakenly find and can do things that are quite incredible. Go figure :)

And now..my 6 year old grandson is a whiz at the comp ( like my middle son)..I was doing something the other day...on the comp...and he gave me a MOST withering look..shook his head..and I heard him telling his dad that * Nana's REALLY weird on the computer*. His upcoming Birthday present..in December..just got MUCH smaller. :)

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Offline Napia5


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:51 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

We are most definitely talking about the same little yellow thingy with the white hand! I just lower the magnification and I am able to access the file! I think we're onto something. I don't know about my skills being better than yours, or anyone else's for that matter. I get so frustrated when I find some gem I want to bring back to the board and lose it, and can't for the life of me figure out how I found what I found in the first place.

I remind me of my own parents. Their desire to keep up with technology ended with the invention of the VCR. I can't count the number of times that the clock on it blinked 12:00 after a storm, until I reset it for them. Both of them just got to the point where they really didn't want to learn anything new. After years of figuring out video games, and how to add songs to iPods, I'm at the same point myself. Enough already. Let someone else take over for awhile. I know next to nothing about cell phones, and I'm quite content with that.
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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Uffa. I have the smart phone. I don't use 1% of what it can do. Even the navigation thing is a prob..because I think it doesn,t get my English accent. So..I had quite a few runarounds to wrong places. Aaaargh. Now, if I have to..I type in the address. I had the navigation system taken out of my car..after a couple of near accidents.

It took my Mum ages to understand voicemail. You'd hear her going..* Hello..hello..can you hear me dear * sort of thing. Don't even talk about call waiting.

But when I tell her about something on the internet..as in googling something..She goes * Oooh, you ARE clever *. LOL.

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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Kercher family lawyer Francesco Maresca in a scrum OS the court said at least the Kerchers could get a fairer process in Florence (than what they had received from Hellmann) .

No matter how much Hellmann argues otherwise, the decision was a stinging rebuke to him, and speaks to how strong the Galati Costagliola appeal was, and how well Riello argued his case in court.
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Thanks, cape. Hope you enjoyed your holiday as well. Good thing school is closed yet today. Kids all need to wind down. Dad is slowly mending.
Too slowly, by his calculations, but he's grateful that he is home and able to get around. How about you? How are those beautiful grandchildren?

I'm having a hard time getting started this morning. I think that chocolate bunny I enjoyed is exacting a pay-back.

I don't know about you, but I can barely keep up with the articles being written about extradition. Some people don't even seem to care about guilt or innocence. Just an arrogant attitude of, "We won't send her back." Or, "It's over. She'll never go back." I don't even know how to respond to this arrogance.

But I have noticed, there is also a much more reasoned response building behind some of the articles. These newer responders are running right into the comments of the ranting Groupies, and I'm finding that interesting to follow. What must these normal people be thinking.
I have to capture the link to CNN. That comment thread is pretty entertaining.

ETA: Here's the link: http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/26/world/eur ... index.html


Thanks. I managed to read the links.

The comment section is pretty hilarious. Mimoo..OY..that poor woman. SO stupid...so in denial. She's very incoherent as well. I guess she didn't get much of anything in Perugia. She spells Medieval as * Midevil*..Lucky for her though..she's married to an equal dimwit. So..ignorance is bliss..all round :)


Those comments are priceless. Honestly, if we weren't here because of a brutal murder, then I would be laughing much harder as Mrs Moore is pure comedy gold. I feel sorry for her kid - imagine your mum making a tit of herself every time she switches on her laptop/goes on holiday. I wonder if Amanda has a permanent hand print on her face, for every time she sees her "supporters" commenting like this...
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Offline Ergon

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:13 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks to tom_ch at .ORG for confirming Sollecito has a residence permit for Lugano: http://www.cdt.ch/ticino-e-regioni/cron ... ecito.html
"LUGANO - Raffaele Sollecito, the twenty-nine year old accused of the murder of British student Meredith Kercher, in Perugia in 2007, not only is willing to come and live in Lugano but it is already in possession of a residence permit B. "The request has been forwarded in December 2012 - confirms the head of the section of the population, Attilio Cometta - and the permit was issued in the month of January. The fact that the Supreme Court overturned the acquittal of second instance in favor of Sollecito, does not affect the ability to stay in Swiss territory. Against this person a criminal conviction grew final, although the crime may be serious, there is - says Cometta - and for that alone made the decision to withdraw the permit is not sustainable. Any blockage can arise at this point only if the Italian authorities decide to restrict the movement of the young man, preventing him to stay for a minimum of 6 months in Switzerland as stated in the residence permit B that, in that case, it is therefore be revoked."

So, he can choose to live in Lugano, or London. If and when he's convicted, such residence will not impact on any extradition request made. Keep in mind the Sollecitos are well connected politically, and therefore the question will be whether the Italian government will or will not issue such a request, for Knox and Sollecito.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:37 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Cape wrote:
The comment section is pretty hilarious. Mimoo..OY..that poor woman. SO stupid...so in denial. She's very incoherent as well. I guess she didn't get much of anything in Perugia. She spells Medieval as * Midevil*..Lucky for her though..she's married to an equal dimwit. So..ignorance is bliss..all round


Valium.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:50 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

GOOGLE TRANS:




The judge who acquitted them:
"I defy anyone to say
that there was evidence "

The outburst of the President of the Court of Assizes "On the Supreme Court
has affected the party pm "
guido ruotolo
Rome

The item arrives faulty. Must stay in the car, Claudio Pratillo Hellmann. It 'been retired for a year and speaks of himself, of his decision, with detachment. So you do not accalora much: "I'm at peace with my conscience." But what they say and think about what they decided on Palazzaccio is a condemnation: "I expected that the decision of the Supreme Court would be the annihilation with referral. The party of the pm is very strong in the judiciary. "



Claudio Pratillo Hellmann was the President of the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Perugia that has acquitted Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. It was in this newspaper, a few hours after the acquittal of the two accused for the murder of Meredith Kercher, Pratillo Hellmann said, "Amanda and Raffaele may also be responsible for the death of Meredith, but there is no evidence. Those that we evaluated in the trial, we have not considered sufficient to condemn them. "



For now, the device of the First Criminal Chamber of the Supreme Court leaves no room for ambiguity: for all charges against the acquittal was canceled, and was confirmed conviction for slander of Amanda Knox, who took dance in the name of Patrick Lumumba as the murderess of Mez in her memoir written to the police station.



"I want to see who will take responsibility to convict two innocent - heats the former President of the Court of Assizes of Appeal - or at least I defy anyone to say that there is evidence to convict."



The outburst not stop there. The magistrate retired mentions a reverse: "Anyway you have to wait to read the reasons of the judges of legitimacy. That there were errors of law in our motivations? I think not. And then the reasons were or insufficient or contradictory or illogical? Certainly there was no evidence of guilt. "



The President Pratillo Hellmann has defended his decision and at the same time the prosecutor who wanted the conviction of the accused: "If I were the prosecutor would have acted as the prosecutor acted in the process. No error on their part. Only we have evaluated the evidence differently. The code states that just a little doubt, as long as reasonable to perform. And we have been consistent with our beliefs. "



The reasonable doubt crept after the test did not confirm genetic with absolute certainty that the tracks on the hook bra Mez led to poor defendants. But what has this to do with "the party pm» that would influence the decision of the Supreme Court?


LA STAMPA

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:57 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

In other words, because he concluded there was "reasonable doubt" on the bra clasp, that meant there was "reasonable doubt" on the whole case!

Oh, and he wrote his motivations in the full knowledge that the High Court would reject it. Frigging unbelievable!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:23 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Cape wrote:
The comment section is pretty hilarious. Mimoo..OY..that poor woman. SO stupid...so in denial. She's very incoherent as well. I guess she didn't get much of anything in Perugia. She spells Medieval as * Midevil*..Lucky for her though..she's married to an equal dimwit. So..ignorance is bliss..all round


Valium.


Valium is so yesterday; today it's Prozac, and a lot less benign. Met someone on Xanax in Rome, and these meds don't make things better, but, so much worse.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks Michael. Here is the gist of Hellman's pronouncement (thanks to piktor for his summary on .org).

Hellman has spoken:

"I’m at peace with my conscience. I foresaw that the decision of the Supreme Court would be annulment with a new trial. The party (influence?) of the PMs is very strong in the judiciary. I want to see who will assume the responsibility to condemn two innocents, or at least I challenge anybody to demonstrate that there is the proof to condemn them. However, we have to wait to read the motivations of the judges. Were there legal errors in our motivations? I don’t believe so. And so therefore the motivations were either insufficient, contradictory or illogical? Certainly there wasn’t the proof of guilt."

LA STAMPA
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:13 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hellmann is clearly of the mistaken belief that his interpretation of "reasonable doubt" (which erroneously, is "absolute certainty") must be applied not only to the sum of all the evidence as a whole, but to each individual piece of evidence and therefore, each individual piece of evidence that does not have "absolute certainty" must be rejected. And since he rested his ideas of guilt or innocence solely on the bra clasp, it is not difficult to see exactly how he came to his warped verdict. What is most amazing of all, is to this day, he still doesn't realise that that whole 'reasoning' is wrong and contrary to the Italian penal code, let alone why.

Good thing they retired him off. Stupid old fool!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:32 pm   Post subject: CASSAZIONE PHOTOS   

Hi, everyone. Here's a preview of the photos I took at Cassazione. I could have taken pictures inside, but, respecting the institution, I didn't. I was told these ones would be OK if I was discrete :) Cassazione 2013


I'll do a write up of the hearings and post the pictures here later.
~Ergon~
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Thanks, Ergon. Beautiful architecture!!! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Every where I went, architecture everywhere in the Eternal City, Michael.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi All,

am in London, Milano was awful

What I heard, is that a woman, a son or daughter of one of the defence lawyers I'm not saying which, as it is nice to keep them (those who are complete and utter lying bastards supporting Knox & Sollecito) guessing, had revealed to someone I know that he (the lawyer) was not convinced of their innocence either, furthermore, what I heard, in general, was that people believe that not only experts were paid off but that Hellmann was given a tidy backhander (perhaps a million), to do what he did, that is what people also think in Italy, as those who knew and know anything about what happened could not and cannot believe what that man did.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:25 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Hi All,

am in London, Milano was awful

What I heard, is that a woman, a son or daughter of one of the defence lawyers I'm not saying which, as it is nice to keep them (those who are complete and utter lying bastards supporting Knox & Sollecito) guessing, had revealed to someone I know that he (the lawyer) was not convinced of their innocence either, furthermore, what I heard, in general, was that people believe that not only experts were paid off but that Hellmann was given a tidy backhander (perhaps a million), to do what he did, that is what people also think in Italy, as those who knew and know anything about what happened could not and cannot believe what that man did.


"Vergogna!"
ff)
that public in Perugia had a good feeling about what was going on.

Old fool Hellmann sounds like a loose cannon now (did he not recieve the rest of the parcel?) - I wonder how long it takes to shut him up.

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r-(( Rest in Peace Meredith Kercher r-((
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:45 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Every where I went, architecture everywhere in the Eternal City, Michael.


I can't wait to hear more about your visit.

Bruce Fischer is in a lather over it, and he's working his fruitcakes into issuing frenzied, crazy sounding death threats:

ScifiTom wrote:
Quote:
Lol Dougm, even it more crazy that this Ergon person really want a piece of pie, with the great one. Do you know if Ergon is more then a MESSIAH. He an ASS of crap and he going to learn something with respect, because it going to end and the only one who can end it, is me TMJ!!! I will end this once and for all. I will and mark my word, if the Italy people or America people, we know the world that they want to bring Amanda Knox back to Italy. They are dead wrong: They first got to go through me? Then they got to go through the million and millions of Americans because we will never fail. So Ergon if you want some: COME GET SOME PAL!!!

http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http://w ... tart=11000

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:12 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

I have to say, that's the first time I've heard someone called an "ASS of crap".

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Haha... isn't everyone?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
I have to say, that's the first time I've heard someone called an "ASS of crap".


You cannot make this stuff up. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:49 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Michael wrote:
I have to say, that's the first time I've heard someone called an "ASS of crap".


You cannot make this stuff up. :)


No, you can't. I took a look myself today, and some of them are trying to guess what Ergon had in his briefcase! Seriously. Bruised Fissure seems especially angry at the fact that Ergon was in attendance. All of this, of course, proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Knox and Sollecito are innocent. Endless, boring personal attacks, all the while referring to PMF and TJMK as haters. Just plain goofy. All of them.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:51 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi, Zorba. Welcome back to the board!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi Z.

Took a peek as well, Napia. But couldn't stay long..so boring..so full of nothing. Back to square 1 really..when Knox and Raf were first ( and correctly) found guilty. It's all threats..and lots and lots of puffery. It would be sad..if it wasn't kind of silly...just cannot take them seriously.

I cannot fathom their OUTRAGE that Ergon went to Italy. They should be OUTRAGED that Frank came over here to the U.S.A. and did what he did.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:23 pm   Post subject: Re: CASSAZIONE PHOTOS   

Ergon wrote:
Hi, everyone. Here's a preview of the photos I took at Cassazione. I could have taken pictures inside, but, respecting the institution, I didn't. I was told these ones would be OK if I was discrete :) Cassazione 2013


I'll do a write up of the hearings and post the pictures here later.
~Ergon~


I love that Rationalist architecture!
Thanks for a view into the scene.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:39 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

reelly sir prizing to see that frends of mer der rers sownd lyk mer der rers an e littr rut 2

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:57 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

hi nap hi cape hi all, cannot write much no mouse and hate this touch pad stuff

basically, sollecito if not able to get a sex change then preggers, can opt for the euthanasia clinic in Switzerland, do himself a favour

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:10 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

GOOGLE TRANS:

Amanda Knox, here are the pictures after the shock news of the new process

Amanda Knox's mother's home in Seattle when she receives a call from her lawyer from Italy that confirms the judgment of the Supreme Court (formerly learned by Amanda from tv). The girl looks down dejected ... (Photo La Presse)


OGGI

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:15 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

From the above:










Not "swooning into her boyfriend's arms" then!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:29 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Why Italy keeps tormenting Knox

Douglas Preston


MANSFIELD NEWS JOURNAL

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:38 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

No mention whatsoever in his opinion piece that blathers on about "face" (projecting much?) of his affiliations for uninitiated readers. Any writer with an ounce of journalistic principles and ethics would include a caveat letting their readers know that they are a principle member of an advocacy group that campaigns on behalf the subject. Not Douglas Preston!

He doesn't mention it because he doesn't want his readers to know that. Why not, Douglas?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:04 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ergon wrote:
Every where I went, architecture everywhere in the Eternal City, Michael.


I went to Rome with my girlfriend in 2005. We drove down from Pisa. Unfortunately, we only had a day there so it was a bit of a rush job. Still, we managed to see a good few things. Beautiful city!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:06 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Hi All,

am in London, Milano was awful

What I heard, is that a woman, a son or daughter of one of the defence lawyers I'm not saying which, as it is nice to keep them (those who are complete and utter lying bastards supporting Knox & Sollecito) guessing, had revealed to someone I know that he (the lawyer) was not convinced of their innocence either, furthermore, what I heard, in general, was that people believe that not only experts were paid off but that Hellmann was given a tidy backhander (perhaps a million), to do what he did, that is what people also think in Italy, as those who knew and know anything about what happened could not and cannot believe what that man did.


Welcome back, Zorba :) Yes, unfortunately, Milan is rather industrialised. Not the most beautiful part of Italy.

As for the rest, I suppose it's a case of *make of it what you will*.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
From the above:

(IMAGE)

(IMAGE)

(IMAGE)




Not "swooning into her boyfriend's arms" then!


That's funny, Michael. Nope..not in boyfriend's arms..but maybe Knox was confused. She saw Boyfriend's orange pants...and so....

Madison with the * deer caught in headlights* stare...I don't know. The whole set up is very peculiar. wh-)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:21 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Peculiar is right, cape. Did the photographer have permission to take the first three, but not the last one?
Or, is the picture with Madison first, and then the photographer got permission for the last three? Peculiar.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Well, the first three appear to be through the window. So, either they are paparazzi shots...or they are faux-paparazzi shots and the "candid effect" is staged.

We know OGGI has very close affiliations with the Knox/Mellas brood.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:44 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Pelerine wrote:
zorba wrote:
Hi All,

am in London, Milano was awful

What I heard, is that a woman, a son or daughter of one of the defence lawyers I'm not saying which, as it is nice to keep them (those who are complete and utter lying bastards supporting Knox & Sollecito) guessing, had revealed to someone I know that he (the lawyer) was not convinced of their innocence either, furthermore, what I heard, in general, was that people believe that not only experts were paid off but that Hellmann was given a tidy backhander (perhaps a million), to do what he did, that is what people also think in Italy, as those who knew and know anything about what happened could not and cannot believe what that man did.


"Vergogna!"
ff)
that public in Perugia had a good feeling about what was going on.

Old fool Hellmann sounds like a loose cannon now (did he not recieve the rest of the parcel?) - I wonder how long it takes to shut him up.



Yeah what I heard is that it is generally thought all three were wasted, an ended up doing that.

I see somehow sense in what Emerald thinks, some bits of it.

It may be possible that Sollecito really does see himself as a some kind of a hero, ignoring the fact that you cannot simply help a girlfriend out by covering for her and then think in your tiny little mind that you are not then guilty of murder too, yep, he may have thought he'd protect her, went in there, set rthe set-up in scene, girl rapes, why would they suspect him? Mr Polite student guy with rich dad, little did he know that the police did not get fooled that easily, doesn't matter who you think you are, yet what doesn't work for me is the idea that Guede and Knox did it, then Solleciro came later after Knox made up a tale of how it happened and told Solleciro that, because if Solecito as not there, why would he have worried about Guede saying strange things, the only strange things he could have said would have bee about Knox, and the only reasion for Sollecito to worry, in that case, and if he had not been there and Guede had not seen him, was the idea of guede grassing Knox up and then Knox grassing Sollecito up.
As it was they all kept quiet, terrified of what the other might say, carefully feeling it out in the courtroom, Knox also dead relieved to seethat Sollecito was not going to be opening his mouth, I think there was no way they could know gfor sure about one another until proceedings got yunder way and they returned again and again and realised that each one, was going to cover for the other. That's why it seems to me they WERE all there and they all DID take part in one way or another.
When Guede pens his masterpiece it is going to be just as shit as the attempts by the laughing hyenas K & S the brands.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:54 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
zorba wrote:
Hi All,

am in London, Milano was awful

What I heard, is that a woman, a son or daughter of one of the defence lawyers I'm not saying which, as it is nice to keep them (those who are complete and utter lying bastards supporting Knox & Sollecito) guessing, had revealed to someone I know that he (the lawyer) was not convinced of their innocence either, furthermore, what I heard, in general, was that people believe that not only experts were paid off but that Hellmann was given a tidy backhander (perhaps a million), to do what he did, that is what people also think in Italy, as those who knew and know anything about what happened could not and cannot believe what that man did.


Welcome back, Zorba :) Yes, unfortunately, Milan is rather industrialised. Not the most beautiful part of Italy.

As for the rest, I suppose it's a case of *make of it what you will*.


Thanks Michael, that it was shit had nothing to do with the place, but everything to do with someone I trusted

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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Yep. It also doesn't explain why the second smaller wound and knife-shaped blood stain on the bed, is a match for Sollecito's pocket knife. I very much doubt Sollecito lent Guede his pocket knife whilst he stayed at home. Neither does it explain Raffaele's bloody footprint on the bath mat. He stepped in the victim's blood when it was still very fresh. Sollecito was there when the murder was committed.

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:00 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
Peculiar is right, cape. Did the photographer have permission to take the first three, but not the last one?
Or, is the picture with Madison first, and then the photographer got permission for the last three? Peculiar.


I wouldn't be surprised if Madison took the other three. A little too staged, complete with Amanda working at her computer. She hears the news her face lowers. I mean really were they there with camera waiting for the call. Next her despondent boyfriend arrives, and we know he can do nothing. Tugging at the heart strings of the devoted.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Zorba wrote:
Thanks Michael, that it was shit had nothing to do with the place, but everything to do with someone I trusted


Oh dear. I'm sorry to hear that :(

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:08 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Peculiar is right, cape. Did the photographer have permission to take the first three, but not the last one?
Or, is the picture with Madison first, and then the photographer got permission for the last three? Peculiar.


I wouldn't be surprised if Madison took the other three. A little too staged, complete with Amanda working at her computer. She hears the news her face lowers. I mean really were they there with camera waiting for the call. Next her despondent boyfriend arrives, and we know he can do nothing. Tugging at the heart strings of the devoted.


It wouldn't be the first Knox photo set Paxton has sold to OGGI (or at least, donated to the Melloxii who then sold them to OGGI). Although, that said, OGGI credits the photos to La Presse, which I'm assuming is an agency.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

malvern wrote:
Napia5 wrote:
Peculiar is right, cape. Did the photographer have permission to take the first three, but not the last one?
Or, is the picture with Madison first, and then the photographer got permission for the last three? Peculiar.


I wouldn't be surprised if Madison took the other three. A little too staged, complete with Amanda working at her computer. She hears the news her face lowers. I mean really were they there with camera waiting for the call. Next her despondent boyfriend arrives, and we know he can do nothing. Tugging at the heart strings of the devoted.


I forget what the front of the house looks like. This looks like it would have possibly been taken through a window, through an enclosed porch, into the room. Can't imagine having houseplants sitting against an outside window in winter in Seattle. Too cold for them. Pictures look a bit too staged for me, too.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:11 am   Post subject: WAITING FOR JUSTICE AT CASSAZIONE   

I'm glad I went to Italy.

It's been an interesting journey, ever since I first came across the case at Huffington Post then here at Perugia Murder File. For a while it seemed like it could go either way. A strong appeal, vs judges wanting to get rid of the problem? In January, I decided I should try to be there, as a witness for all of you here at Perugia Murder File. I wrote and asked for a press pass, which I received in mid February. Was in Perugia March 18-24, and Rome March 24-31.

Cassazione is in a neo-classical 19th century building at Piazza Cavour in Rome. There are two entrances, one facing the Tiber river opposite Ponte Umberto 1, and the other one most people go through on the Piazza Cavour side. Three camera crews milling around outside, from NBC, CNN and RAI.

I arrive at 9:20 AM and pick up my press pass, Passi n. 342, Sezione Penalli, Corte Supremi de Cassazione March 25, 2013.

Find my way to the Aula Prima Penale on the second floor. Huge, wide halls, facing a large inner court yard (pictures to follow)

Not an overly large court room. 16 seats behind the partition where the legal teams sit. I grab one of the last seats, reporters from The Telegraph, New York Times, AP, il Giornale dell Umbria, free lancers standing around and against the walls. Visible are Maresca, Della Vedova, Ghirga, Maori, Bongiorno. Francesco Sollecito surrounded by large family group, but Stephanie Kercher could not be there due to mother's ill health.

10:00 AM: The 5 judges walk in. Luigi Riello, attorney general for the court, sits on the podium to the left, with Maresca on that side, the defendant's team to the right..


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

My impression of the Knox 'paparazzi photos' is that they are staged. But, why stage a paparazzi look? To evoke sympathy ("Look at the intrusion on her privacy!")? Make the poses and expressions appear more genuine rather then posed? In part, both of the former maybe. But, I think the primary reason is so they don't appear to break their contract with their book publisher by overtly selling photo ops to the press ;) Just me being cynical.

Make no mistake, right now, the Melloxes are after money, money, money.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:59 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

No question. Staged. Very convenient to have Manders right by windows...and..what time was it that they received the phone call? Late at night..people have their shades or curtains DRAWN. And..from 2 different windows. Nice BRIGHT lights on.

Lights...camera...ACTION.

It's just so manipulative. And yes..Knox is very much the Cash Cow.

Which brings me to something else. Curt Knox has been very, very quiet. I think he's not in the money sharing plan.

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:01 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Welcome back Ergon How wonderful that you were there with all your great energy for Meredith! So Foakers that was what was in the briefcase !!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:05 am   Post subject: WAITING FOR JUSTICE AT CASSAZIONE PART II   

...There are about 40 people in the audience. Journalists, law students from La Sapienza University, Sollecito family. Note: any Italian citizen or member of the press may attend Cassazione hearings. Just show your ID.

The presiding judge discusses the order of the day. There will be other cases dealt with later, after Knox and Sollecito.

10:15 PM: Proceedings begin. Riello makes a brief statement. Judges retire behind closed doors. Speak to the law students. Some think the case is very strong, others that it hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Most seem to favour a guilty verdict.

10:35. Judges return, and ask questions of Riello about the points in his appeal. two judges then enter into a lengthy summation of the case before them, and the appeal arguments. The relatrice is a woman in her 50's, v. bright and alert. (Judge pro) Her respondent, Judge con, is probably in his 50's, with a goatee, and he starts with a lengthy summation. It appears they are arguing pro and con, a view of an inquisitorial system arguing and then arriving at a conclusion.

Question asked of Riello. He answers, then speaks very strongly about the legality of the appeal. Then he talks about a crime of passion, with a escalating crescendo of violence. The president listens intently.

Riello starts to veer off into the evidence. The president interrupts him, saying "if I allow you to do this, then the defense will want to do the same, and we'll be here all day". Carla Della Vedova smiles. Seems very confident at this point. More questioning of Riello, who makes a long dissertation. Judge con questions him about the interpreter Anna Donino, and how much she influenced the "confession". Riello responds.

The relatrice (Judge pro) goes on at length about Le corte de Assise, then about Rudy Giede's role in the crime, with 'the assistance of others'. Mentions the computer hard drives as argued by the defense. Then Amanda's role in falsely accusing Lumumba, the callunia. Brilliant, but rather long summation. Both she and the other judges speak past noon, with the arguments going back and forth, at length about the evidence, about Raffaele and the knife, the computer drives, biological traces, possible motive, Knox and the arrival of the postal police, Sollecito fudging the alibi, their guilty behaviour, Knox and Lumumba again. Emphasises that it was a sadistic act.

A very strong summing up of the evidence. I fell that finally, Meredith Kercher is being considered.

Frank Sfarzo shows up. No eye contact, hmm.

12:42 PM: The judges are still going strong, with speculation it was an impulsive crime of the moment, and the relatrice summing up of the psychological motives behind the false accusation.

1:00 PM: The presiding judge thanks her for her (long) summation.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:09 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Cape wrote:
Which brings me to something else. Curt Knox has been very, very quiet. I think he's not in the money sharing plan.


Yes, all of the pimping seems to have been coming from the Mellas side of the fence rather then the Knox side.

Curt Knox comes over as a rather proud man, not keen on the money grubbing side of it at all.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:19 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Nicely done, Ergon. Della Verdova smiles. Oh-oh. Many a slip between the cup and the lip.

I like it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:26 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Cape wrote:
Which brings me to something else. Curt Knox has been very, very quiet. I think he's not in the money sharing plan.


Yes, all of the pimping seems to have been coming from the Mellas side of the fence rather then the Knox side.

Curt Knox comes over as a rather proud man, not keen on the money grubbing side of it at all.



Well, I do remember tears from him...ONCE. When he was discussing his mortgage. nw)

However...it's Edda...Granny..and Mellas. Curt seems left out in the cold. There are no more cozy Saturday mornings together...having weekly chats with Manders on the phone. The CLOSE family.

There's a split. I may be wrong..but has Curt made a statement at all about the latest developements? And, was he at the *party * at Vershon? Or Vashon. Ya know...the hut?

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Offline malvern


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:31 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

We were just hanging on every tweet from Andrea. She thought the judge was impatient with Riello at one point now we know why. Did you pick up which way they might be leaning or were the judges poker faced? Maybe Frank has another piece coming out in Oggi under an assumed name.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:02 am   Post subject: Re: ASSOLUTA CERTEZZA   

Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANS:




The judge who acquitted them:
"I defy anyone to say
that there was evidence "

The outburst of the President of the Court of Assizes "On the Supreme Court
has affected the party pm "
guido ruotolo
Rome

...The reasonable doubt crept after the test did not confirm genetic with absolute certainty that the tracks on the hook bra Mez led to poor defendants. But what has this to do with "the party pm» that would influence the decision of the Supreme Court?


LA STAMPA


There it is again, Michael: "absolute certainty".

"Assoluta certezza."

Only God Himself/ Herself could ever hope to attain "absolute certainty" as to the moral blameworthiness of any given defendant! "Absolute certainty" is something mere mortals can only dream of.

What was this man doing sitting on the bench, presiding over a criminal trial?!!! It's positively scandalous!!!

As I've pointed out before, the Supreme Court of the United States could help Hellmann to see his INCREDIBLE blunder:

In Victor v. Nebraska (92-8894), 511 U.S. 1 (1994), the Supreme Court noted that:

"The beyond a reasonable doubt standard is itself probabilistic."

Accordingly, the Court endorsed a jury instruction on the nature of the BARD standard that reads as follows:
____________________________________________
"..absolute or mathematical certainty is not required.

You may be convinced of the truth of a fact beyond a reasonable doubt and yet be fully aware that possibly you may be mistaken.

You may find an accused guilty upon the strong probabilities of the case, provided such probabilities are strong enough to exclude any doubt of his guilt that is reasonable.

A reasonable doubt is an actual and substantial doubt arising from the evidence, from the facts or circumstances shown by the evidence, or from the lack of evidence on the part of the state, as distinguished from a doubt arising from mere possibility [(think C+V's "anything is possible" testimony)], from bare imagination, or from fanciful conjecture."

__________________________________________

I HONESTLY cannot believe my eyes when reading these references to "assoluta certezza" that are being ascribed to Hellmann.

Based on the translation of his judgment, it was, IMHO, clear that Hellmann did not understand the BARD standard and its application to the totality of the evidence but I had NO idea that his ignorance of the construct could be this severe.

Somebody tell me there's been an error in the reportage!

It boggles the mind that someone so unutterably ignorant of the basics could be handed such a solemn duty. It's like discovering that the top man/ woman at NASA did not know Newton's 1st Law of Motion, or that the General in command of your armies never learned to load and fire a weapon in basic training.

May God bless the Justices of the Supreme Court.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:15 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hellman is whistling a different tune now. When he gave the acquittal in 2011..it was about INSUFFICIENT evidence. Now..it's absolute certainty.

I can tell you something with ABSOLUTE certainty. Hellman isn't a Judge's backside..and..also with ABSOLUTE certainty..he is CLUELESS!!! Of course, Jackie, you know that. :)

He is WAY too defensive...and..he looks and acts guilty. Of something. sun-) He has no good judgement..or skills..or knowledge. No wonder this Junk Judge has been retired. He's a freaking embarrassment.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hello, Gorgeous! I don't understand why more people aren't talking about these INCREDIBLE remarks being ascribed to Hellmann.

It's a S C A N D A L !!!

About the only thing that could take my mind of it right now is a spur of the moment flight to Vegas for some private Blackjack lessons ;-)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:55 am   Post subject: WAITING FOR JUSTICE AT CASSAZIONE PART III   

Riello sums up at length: Strong voice, humorous asides to lawyers. Asks for the disability of the ruling by the Appeals court, jokes about the internet research of Conti and Vecchiotti, that the law must be respected. Makes an impassioned speech about Intenzia, Motivazione, the 'anthropological relations between Knox and Sollecito, how their reactions were not normal. "I was there" reads as "I did it". The accusation of Lumumba. A Psychological summing up. La Ragazza visiting Italy.
Sollecito: "I can't remember". "Insomnio, Insomnio" :)

Sfarzo texting away. Francesco Sollecito wondering what I'm doing there :)

Riello goes on at length about Lumumba. Her accusation of an innocent man was "pathological". The illogicality of the appeal ruling. Massei, on the other hand, had expressed his judgement logically. Knox was the brain who manipulated Guede. Normal vs abnormal behaviour. Inappropriate behaviour.

Reporters coming and going out.

Will the court send back to Florence? Multo confuzione.

President tells him to get on with it. Basta! Is he losing patience? Riello's getting a bit long winded in the argument. Asking for the proper application of the law. Repeat: asking for a ruling of the illogicality of Hellmann Zanetti again.

Not enough people present to fill the galleries. 16 seats audience. 20-30 standees. That's it.

Riello making fun of the contaminizione. Illogical arguments of appeal to try to prove contamination. Tidies up his files; thumps the desk with both hands. Gravissimo! Guilty, with Rudy Guede. Rejecto the recorso. To allow the appeal of the Procurator Generale. Pleads to ask the calunnia to stand.

Lunch break 30 minutes. Court to reconvene @ 2:35 PM.

1st Sezione Penale Aula.

(to be continued)


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Offline Jester


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:10 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Really enjoying the play by play!
Very interesting how it all played out with confidences in the defense and the media (smiling, lack of attendance)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:31 am   Post subject: Re: WAITING FOR JUSTICE AT CASSAZIONE PART III   

Ergon wrote:
...Sfarzo texting away. Francesco Sollecito wondering what I'm doing there :)
...


I'm wondering what "SFARZO" was doing there. Is there a medical explanation for people that skip their own court dates but show up promptly for court dates of delebrities?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:34 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
Zorba wrote:
Thanks Michael, that it was shit had nothing to do with the place, but everything to do with someone I trusted


Oh dear. I'm sorry to hear that :(



Thanks Michael, the one thing that permeated whatever came was having just heard about the appeal being overturned right befoe I left, and here, seeing as far as I can while staying with my mother here in London, what good woek Ergon was able to do is fantastic and I must say he really worked it out on tiwhat he wanted and needed to do, what he could do, and then did it, the court transcripions are great.
Had things ciontinued as they'd been left by Hellmann, I think apathy would have set in as a reaction, bad enough that Knox did, what is, as much as escape and I reckon it wasn't as muh the getting released that caused that look on her face but more her sheer amazement that she was getting away with it.

Furthermore, they shielded one another within the framework that played out, Guede not being able to do much but go for the lightest sentence but they thought they might get away with it entirely so in no way wanted to start admitting anything, the situation in the present, has changed though, as there will be less room to play. This is because there is no NEW TRIAL, the appeal was overturned meaning it was voided, as being illegal, and not executed according to the rules and laws in place, so that ruling by Hellmann is meaningless, it is as if it never existed, at least it would be if it had not meant that Knox got to flee the country, and Sollecito to pose and mock the murder of Meredith Kercher, but it definitely has been voided, a NEW TRIAL is not the case, it is a new appeal, because the one before would be unfair, as it turned out, unfair to the prosecution, after all, it was not Knox and Sollecito calling for an overturn, so if the appeal re-done upholds the original guilty judgment and Knox and Sollecito again try to appeal in the supreme court and fail, then their attitudes are bound to change, no matter if Knox is out of reach, and before her it will be Sollecito who then turns out not to be as Honor Bound as he wanted the world to believe, no, not when it sinks in that it is final.

This may all be speculation but if it goes as I describe, with the supreme court upholding the re-done appeal, then he has no way out other than suicide and as I think he will no do that he my try to gain some leverage by revealing what happened. Thing is once you've gone sso far with lying, who is going to believe you? I hardly see him coming entirely clean, for him to do that, to my mind at least, and for me to believe it, it would have to be him grassing Knox and Guede up and him admitting his own guilt.
This admitting own guilt is something I think they'll all avoid when trying to blame it on the other.


Hey, in India an important Italian official was kidnapped and Italy then extradited the two Italians that shot the Indian fishermen, I doubt Italy will need or even consider kidnapping American embassy officials or whatever, still, if found guilty and wanted in Italy, Knox will no longer be free to go anywhere; I guess you could call that prison too.

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Offline The Machine


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:07 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

David Barrett has written an excellent article for The Daily Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens ... -time.html

Please thank him for reminding the public that Meredith is the real victim and that Amanda Knox still stands accused of her murder via Twitter:

@davidbarrett

I also like the comparison to Myra Hindely who was another sadistic sex killer.
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Offline daisysteiner


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Hi Michael, glad to see you back :)

Thanks for the pics Ergon, Rome looks amazing and your pics are beautiful :)

Bruce is all hand flappy at the moment because he is a. losing (or loser, your choice ;) ) and b. I don't think any of the IIP lot these days can go to Italy without getting arrested thanks to their need to speak their minds without considering that the internet/US newspapers exist in Italy along with people who can read English. If they want to find anything out, they have to pick up a phone to Mr Sfarzo the Honest (lol) rather than get on a plane. Their problem now, not ours. All their comments about Ergon do is show they are jealous that he was there and they weren't. Also, for the record, I don't believe in any of the astrological stuff (my religion is of the Dawkins/Pullman variety) but I do understand what Ergon means by his so called "messiah" statement and it is fairly Pullmanesque if I'm reading it right. He's not saying he's the Messiah but if IIP can't read between lines or take anything other than on face value then it frankly really shows 2Dness of the people we're dealing with. Again, their problem, not ours. Its a yawn/BAAAWWW fest over there these days anyway, the comedy factor has long abandoned IA.

The pics of Manders receiving the bad news are as staged as those in the park. If the paps were outside then there is no way she'd take a call in the window unless she really is the attention seeker on the inside that she has so diligently suppressed for the sake of $4m. I'd sit on the kitchen floor to avoid being papped which makes me think there cash in those photos. The "no pics please" photo with Madison makes it look like the first three were long lensed and therefore offers her the "credibility" to say that she isn't courting publicity other than the ABC interview. The Knoxii really think people are stupid...or rather, they know the market who believe in Amanda's innocence and they are pandering to it for the $$$ - its all about the money for the Mellas clan, i agree. Curt has a touch more about him than Chris and his delightful friends.

If Knox got $4m then you'd think her friends could stop sharing trousers.

As for Hellman, he's covering his professional arse, badly I might add. He knows that judgement was a load of old bollocks as well as anyone else, he said as much after the appeal verdict. He purposefully wrote it knowing it would get tossed out. What a guy eh? You never know though, the amount of revelations and throwing under buses that goes on; he'll be directly accusing Zanetti next to save his judge skin. All its going to take is that one piece of proper evidence which links that DNA chappy in the USA (Chris Halkiwhatshisname) and Zanetti. Because anyone who has actually read the appeal and the SC appeal by the prosecution knows there was more than one American hand steering that ship and its a matter of time before all comes out. I wouldn't like to be Amanda when the eventual backlash occurs, and it will.

If there are Vegas trips, I'm there will bells on :)
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:14 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

GOOGLE TRANS (FROM GERMAN):

Amanda Knox: Her family is afraid that she must return to prison

Hamburg (ots) - Last week, an Italian court ruled that the murder trial of Amanda Knox (25) is re-opened. GRAZIA (issue 15/13, starting tomorrow in the trade), spoke with their large German cousin: "We have never expected, even though we obviously on appeal knew it was for the family, a real shock," said Dorothee Nair. In October 2011, as the "angel with eyes of ice" known Knox was acquitted on appeal in Perugia on murder charge. On 30 April, they will for the first time on U.S. television to talk about the last six year of her life. "This is very exciting for Amanda," said Nair. "She invited all her relatives in New York and many of us fly back to support them." Meanwhile, the 25-year-old goes back to the University and also has a new "very nice" friend, as telling her second cousin. "But the time in prison, it has of course changed. It has become more serious, more cautious."

Reprinted with regard to GRAZIA free.


PRESSE PORTAL

(perhaps one of our German speakers can clean this up a bit)

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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:22 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Just read the Telegraph article linked further up thread....Knox and Hindley in the same sentence? Wow. Not quite the same, although Hindley was arguably under the considerable influence of Brady so in some ways, Knox is worse as she wasn't goaded by Sollecito, he couldn't goad anyone if his life depended on it. I think pathetic, doomed (and he obviously knows it) and reduced to riding Amanda's media coat tails is the best way to sum him up these days.
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Offline capealadin


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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:58 am

Posts: 4089

Highscores: 11

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:24 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Jackie wrote:
Hello, Gorgeous! I don't understand why more people aren't talking about these INCREDIBLE remarks being ascribed to Hellmann.

It's a S C A N D A L !!!

About the only thing that could take my mind of it right now is a spur of the moment flight to Vegas for some private Blackjack lessons ;-)


I couldn't agree more, m'love. It's mind blowing. Hopefully, the SC has taken note..and umbrage.

As for the Blackjack....... ;)

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:30 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANS (FROM GERMAN):

Amanda Knox: Her family is afraid that she must return to prison

Hamburg (ots) - Last week, an Italian court ruled that the murder trial of Amanda Knox (25) is re-opened. GRAZIA (issue 15/13, starting tomorrow in the trade), spoke with their large German cousin: "We have never expected, even though we obviously on appeal knew it was for the family, a real shock," said Dorothee Nair. In October 2011, as the "angel with eyes of ice" known Knox was acquitted on appeal in Perugia on murder charge. On 30 April, they will for the first time on U.S. television to talk about the last six year of her life. "This is very exciting for Amanda," said Nair. "She invited all her relatives in New York and many of us fly back to support them." Meanwhile, the 25-year-old goes back to the University and also has a new "very nice" friend, as telling her second cousin. "But the time in prison, it has of course changed. It has become more serious, more cautious."

Reprinted with regard to GRAZIA free.


PRESSE PORTAL

(perhaps one of our German speakers can clean this up a bit)


2nd sentence in. * Their LARGE cousin. * :lol:

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Offline capealadin


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:33 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Super post..Daisy. Exactly right.

Vegas will be TOO much fun. Now, if only Jackie didn't have Sharon @ the table...maybe the outcome would have been different...and Jackie would be treating us. AT THE WYNN. :)

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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:35 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANS (FROM GERMAN):

Amanda Knox: Her family is afraid that she must return to prison

Hamburg (ots) - Last week, an Italian court ruled that the murder trial of Amanda Knox (25) is re-opened. GRAZIA (issue 15/13, starting tomorrow in the trade), spoke with their large German cousin: "We have never expected, even though we obviously on appeal knew it was for the family, a real shock," said Dorothee Nair. In October 2011, as the "angel with eyes of ice" known Knox was acquitted on appeal in Perugia on murder charge. On 30 April, they will for the first time on U.S. television to talk about the last six year of her life. "This is very exciting for Amanda," said Nair. "She invited all her relatives in New York and many of us fly back to support them." Meanwhile, the 25-year-old goes back to the University and also has a new "very nice" friend, as telling her second cousin. "But the time in prison, it has of course changed. It has become more serious, more cautious."

Reprinted with regard to GRAZIA free.


PRESSE PORTAL

(perhaps one of our German speakers can clean this up a bit)


2nd sentence in. * Their LARGE cousin. * :lol:


You beat me to it Cape, that was my first thought too haha!
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Offline daisysteiner


Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:39 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Super post..Daisy. Exactly right.

Vegas will be TOO much fun. Now, if only Jackie didn't have Sharon @ the table...maybe the outcome would have been different...and Jackie would be treating us. AT THE WYNN. :)


Mate if there is a back packers hostel available, I could be convinced....I NEED A HOLIDAY! And can't have one until the expensive one next year. It will be aces when the wedding happens but I need the holiday part now!
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Offline The Machine


Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:43 pm

Posts: 2306

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:40 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
Just read the Telegraph article linked further up thread....Knox and Hindley in the same sentence? Wow. Not quite the same, although Hindley was arguably under the considerable influence of Brady so in some ways, Knox is worse as she wasn't goaded by Sollecito, he couldn't goad anyone if his life depended on it. I think pathetic, doomed (and he obviously knows it) and reduced to riding Amanda's media coat tails is the best way to sum him up these days.


I think the subtleties of David Barrett's article will be lost on the likes of Michelle Moore and Sarah Synder.
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Offline Michael

Site Admin


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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:06 pm

Posts: 16732

Location: England

Highscores: 113

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:41 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

The Machine wrote:
David Barrett has written an excellent article for The Daily Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens ... -time.html

Please thank him for reminding the public that Meredith is the real victim and that Amanda Knox still stands accused of her murder via Twitter:

@davidbarrett

I also like the comparison to Myra Hindely who was another sadistic sex killer.


Thanks, TM! :)


Daisy wrote:
Hi Michael, glad to see you back


Hey, Daisy :)

_________________
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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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Offline Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:47 am   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

It is nice that at least one reporter remembers Meredith!

_________________
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THE MURDER OF MEREDITH KERCHER WIKI
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PMF FORUM RULES
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:44 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

zorba wrote:
Hi All,

am in London, Milano was awful

What I heard, is that a woman, a son or daughter of one of the defence lawyers I'm not saying which, as it is nice to keep them (those who are complete and utter lying bastards supporting Knox & Sollecito) guessing, had revealed to someone I know that he (the lawyer) was not convinced of their innocence either, furthermore, what I heard, in general, was that people believe that not only experts were paid off but that Hellmann was given a tidy backhander (perhaps a million), to do what he did, that is what people also think in Italy, as those who knew and know anything about what happened could not and cannot believe what that man did.


Welcome back zorba :)
Don't they all know the truth actually, I wonder?
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:14 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANS (FROM GERMAN):

Amanda Knox: Her family is afraid that she must return to prison

Hamburg (ots) - Last week, an Italian court ruled that the murder trial of Amanda Knox (25) is re-opened. GRAZIA (issue 15/13, starting tomorrow in the trade), spoke with their large German cousin: "We have never expected, even though we obviously on appeal knew it was for the family, a real shock," said Dorothee Nair. In October 2011, as the "angel with eyes of ice" known Knox was acquitted on appeal in Perugia on murder charge. On 30 April, they will for the first time on U.S. television to talk about the last six year of her life. "This is very exciting for Amanda," said Nair. "She invited all her relatives in New York and many of us fly back to support them." Meanwhile, the 25-year-old goes back to the University and also has a new "very nice" friend, as telling her second cousin. "But the time in prison, it has of course changed. It has become more serious, more cautious."

Reprinted with regard to GRAZIA free.


PRESSE PORTAL

(perhaps one of our German speakers can clean this up a bit)


Slightly brushed up version of the large cousin's words:
"We hadn't expected it (SC decision) at all, the family was really shocked, even though we knew of course about the appeal. ... This (first tv appearance) is very exciting for Amanda. She invited all her relatives to come to New York, and a lot of us will to give her support. ... Prison has changed her, she has become more cautious and serious."
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Offline Ava


Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:20 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Great pics and observations, Ergon, thank you :)
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Offline Napia5


User avatar


Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:41 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Hellman is whistling a different tune now. When he gave the acquittal in 2011..it was about INSUFFICIENT evidence. Now..it's absolute certainty.

I can tell you something with ABSOLUTE certainty. Hellman isn't a Judge's backside..and..also with ABSOLUTE certainty..he is CLUELESS!!! Of course, Jackie, you know that. :)

He is WAY too defensive...and..he looks and acts guilty. Of something. sun-) He has no good judgement..or skills..or knowledge. No wonder this Junk Judge has been retired. He's a freaking embarrassment.


I think you should invite Hellman to go with you to Vegas. You know his type, cape. He'll call your all-in every time because he's ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN you're bluffing. hbc)
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Offline capealadin


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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:58 am

Posts: 4089

Highscores: 11

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:59 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Napia5 wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Hellman is whistling a different tune now. When he gave the acquittal in 2011..it was about INSUFFICIENT evidence. Now..it's absolute certainty.

I can tell you something with ABSOLUTE certainty. Hellman isn't a Judge's backside..and..also with ABSOLUTE certainty..he is CLUELESS!!! Of course, Jackie, you know that. :)

He is WAY too defensive...and..he looks and acts guilty. Of something. sun-) He has no good judgement..or skills..or knowledge. No wonder this Junk Judge has been retired. He's a freaking embarrassment.


I think you should invite Hellman to go with you to Vegas. You know his type, cape. He'll call your all-in every time because he's ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN you're bluffing. hbc)


HUH. He's such a Donkey..he'll have 2-3 off suit..and believe he has made a Royal Flush.

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Offline capealadin


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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:58 am

Posts: 4089

Highscores: 11

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:02 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

Ava wrote:
Michael wrote:
GOOGLE TRANS (FROM GERMAN):

Amanda Knox: Her family is afraid that she must return to prison

Hamburg (ots) - Last week, an Italian court ruled that the murder trial of Amanda Knox (25) is re-opened. GRAZIA (issue 15/13, starting tomorrow in the trade), spoke with their large German cousin: "We have never expected, even though we obviously on appeal knew it was for the family, a real shock," said Dorothee Nair. In October 2011, as the "angel with eyes of ice" known Knox was acquitted on appeal in Perugia on murder charge. On 30 April, they will for the first time on U.S. television to talk about the last six year of her life. "This is very exciting for Amanda," said Nair. "She invited all her relatives in New York and many of us fly back to support them." Meanwhile, the 25-year-old goes back to the University and also has a new "very nice" friend, as telling her second cousin. "But the time in prison, it has of course changed. It has become more serious, more cautious."

Reprinted with regard to GRAZIA free.


PRESSE PORTAL

(perhaps one of our German speakers can clean this up a bit)


Slightly brushed up version of the large cousin's words:
"We hadn't expected it (SC decision) at all, the family was really shocked, even though we knew of course about the appeal. ... This (first tv appearance) is very exciting for Amanda. She invited all her relatives to come to New York, and a lot of us will to give her support. ... Prison has changed her, she has become more cautious and serious."


Apropos the last sentence. * She has become more cautious and serious *.

More cautious..I suppose that means she doesn't shag strange old men in toilets on a train.

More serious. I suppose that means she doesn't laugh and giggle, sway and sing in a trial..when she's murdered her room-mate. Got it. huh-)

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Offline capealadin


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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:58 am

Posts: 4089

Highscores: 11

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:04 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

daisysteiner wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Super post..Daisy. Exactly right.

Vegas will be TOO much fun. Now, if only Jackie didn't have Sharon @ the table...maybe the outcome would have been different...and Jackie would be treating us. AT THE WYNN. :)


Mate if there is a back packers hostel available, I could be convinced....I NEED A HOLIDAY! And can't have one until the expensive one next year. It will be aces when the wedding happens but I need the holiday part now!


I hear ya. For me..I need a vacation when I've vacationed in Vegas. There's no sleeping there, Hon.

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Offline Napia5


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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:07 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
daisysteiner wrote:
capealadin wrote:
Super post..Daisy. Exactly right.

Vegas will be TOO much fun. Now, if only Jackie didn't have Sharon @ the table...maybe the outcome would have been different...and Jackie would be treating us. AT THE WYNN. :)


Mate if there is a back packers hostel available, I could be convinced....I NEED A HOLIDAY! And can't have one until the expensive one next year. It will be aces when the wedding happens but I need the holiday part now!


I hear ya. For me..I need a vacation when I've vacationed in Vegas. There's no sleeping there, Hon.


I'm heading there next month. My brother lives there. But, I'm going for some much needed peace and quiet from my crew. Imagine going to Vegas for peace and quiet!
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Offline dgfred


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Posts: 1082

Location: N.C., USA

Highscores: 13

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:11 pm   Post subject: Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 29 -   

capealadin wrote:
Michael wrote:
From the above:

(IMAGE)

(IMAGE)

(IMAGE)




Not "swooning into her boyfriend's arms" then!


That's funny, Michael. Nope..not in boyfriend's arms..but maybe Knox was confused. She saw Boyfriend's orange pants...and so....

Madison with the * deer caught in headlights* stare...I don't know. The whole set up is very peculiar. wh-)


I think it may be a sister of AK under cover... instead of AK. Hair looks real dark to me. Not that I care one bit either way.
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